Open mike 17/11/2015

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, November 17th, 2015 - 115 comments
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openmikeOpen mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose. The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

115 comments on “Open mike 17/11/2015 ”

  1. Gangnam Style 1

    Terrorist ‘mastermind’ turns out to be Belgian, Syrian passports are fake, so maybe France should start a bombing run on Belgium. What a mess. Over 100 ppl detained, it does make you wonder WTF the spies watching our online activity do all day, too much time sniffing ppls undies drawers is my guess.


    Here’s a little thought experiment: imagine that we’re in Kansas (without Toto) and a bridal party in three rented limos is heading down a highway toward a church where a wedding is about to take place. Suddenly, a small out-of-control plane plummets into those limos killing the bride, the mother of the bride, and five of the seven bridesmaids; 15 others are wounded. Bear with me here, if this particular method of wedding slaughter seems a little farfetched. After all, we don’t (yet) have drones armed with Hellfire missiles patrolling American skies that could take out such a caravan. ….

  3. vto 3

    Genuinely, I have no decent thought on the middle east troubles..

    They have arisen due to a confluence of human migrations out of Africa and settlements in those once fertile lands. Such were these circumstances that civilisation actually sprouted there.

    These communities have existed for a very long time – in fact longer than any other on the planet currently, due to their proximity to Africa.. which has made them central to the world’s order

    But the world and its demographics and migrations have now moved on very substantially from those times and that part of the world is no longer central to the world’s order (other than historic hangover and the current presence of oil – which, in a practical sense, keeps them central to order. But this is passing)

    About 5,000 years of them being central to the world.

    Next 5,000 years bullshit

    • weka 3.1

      Just to put that in context, Australian aboriginal cultures have existed for 50,000 years.

      On the Eurasian continent, 5,000 years happens to coincide with the general shift from egalitarian culture to dominance culture. There are various theories around that related to the development of agriculture over since 10,000 years ago, but I think that’s as much an accident of geography as anything (the right coinciding of population with fertile land).

      As for the world’s order, I don’t see any of the developped world being particularly good at that. Bunch of self-serving warmongers the lot of them.

  4. b waghorn 4

    If someone was killing in the name of my god I would expect my god to act to stop them,if he/she /it didn’t act I would throw that god on the heap with other stupid beliefs I’ve had.

  5. Jeeves 5

    Is Simon Lusk New Zealand’s angriest man?

    He should stop killing things and just come out.

    Who is Paul Honnor, and what’s that all about?

    • Skinny 5.1

      He came across as a legend in his own mind, actually quite a blow arse nutter. Not much of a hunter gatherer taking 5 shots to nail a couple of deer in a fenced paddock. Be an even match in the boxing ring with his mate Slater. Certainly looks like he will help Twyford win his seat with ease, $150 paid to turn Maori voters off Labour was a laugh.

      • Rodel 5.1.1

        “a legend in his own mind,” Thanks. That’s good. I’ll use that sometime.

        • Rosie

          And along with “a legend in his own mind” I quite like “blow arse nutter”. Sums it up really. He’s like the playground bully that grew up and is still a bully, but has no mates. Nothing but a gloating idiot.

          If he appeared on the show because he was touting for business as Garner suggested, then he did a great job of shooting himself in the foot – or maybe he genuinely believes that everyone is as corrupted and vicious as he is, and that he might reach that target audience and drum up some business.

          On one of the posts somewhere, over the weekend, there was a character called cowboy (I think) who talked about why he isn’t renewing his National Party membership, and how Key’s outburst in the house was the last straw that pushed him to that decision. It was an insightful read, and an honest one from a former Nat supporter.

          I reckon there’s lots more like cowboy, conservative, traditional, yet principled, quietly turning away from their party. I look at how my family, a true blue one, just can’t defend Key like they used to. These can’t be the ones that Roy Morgan interviews.

          Bringing Simon Lusk out for an airing was a good thing. He’ll drive those principled former Nat voters into the arms of NZ First.

          • miravox

            ” or maybe he genuinely believes that everyone is as corrupted and vicious as he is, and that he might reach that target audience and drum up some business.”

            This. Which also says a lot about the people who associate with him.

    • One Anonymous Bloke 5.2

      Blabbermouth Lusk runs his mouth too much. Sam Lotu-Iiga is the gift that keeps on giving. Thanks Blabbermouth.

      • Rodel 5.2.1

        Just forced myself to watch some of the video. Had to curb the vomit.
        He’d have to be the antithesis of Sir Ed.

    • weizguy 5.3

      I particularly enjoyed the way he appeared to own up to criminal behaviour:

      Depressingly, Duncan Garner didn’t appear to know that treating was an offence, despite having been a Political Editor…

  6. Adrian 6

    If there really is a cabal of recent immigrants putting money up to do a hatchet job on a democraticly elected MP ( Phil Twyford ) that’s all the reason required for the arseholes to be escorted to the border and thrown out.
    Where the fuck are the Police ?
    probably scared of Lusk.

    • Anne 6.1

      Where the fuck are the Police ?

      Turning a blind eye of course.

      • savenz 6.1.1

        @Anne – The police are being good neoliberal citizens and giving out traffic tickets of course. You have to fund and justify your own job and existence these days. (in money).

        Solving crime is way down the list for police, first being errand boys for Slater and Key, second locking up people that disagree with the above, thirdly under globalism we have ‘overseas friends’ to do the above to, and fourthly gather revenue to keep the above going by issuing traffic fines. Waste your time locking up people who should not be in prison because mental health facilities are closing, homeless facilities are closing, and drug facilities are closing. If there are any resources left – you can do a bit of solving crime in your spare time.

    • Tracey 6.2

      Can’t and shouldn’t throw people out for what they are thinking of doing.

      • alwyn 6.2.1

        Such old fashioned Liberalism Tracey. Refreshing but so rare these days in the political circles you tend to identify with.
        Ask Colonial Viper how it works.

  7. Puckish Rogue 7

    To Pascals bookie following on from yesterday

    The first thing needed would be to ratify the Kurdish state and enrol them into Nato, this will require some diplomacy on the part of the West in regards to Turkey however its an autonamous state at the moment (more or less) so its not like creating a brand new country

    Once this has happened it will be much easier for troops to get on the ground because while you can’t eradicate terrorism (and you never will) ISIS at least has a physical area to target and destroying their infrastructure won’t end them but it will certainly make it harder for them to operate overseas

    • Tracey 7.1

      It’sa good start. And pile billions into the region to establish their infrastructure, and create employment and futures. Without a future people do desperate things or become victims of those doing desperate things. If we took even half the money being used on military offensives and put it into devleopment of countries infrastructures and futures… we might just surprise ourselves.

      • Puckish Rogue 7.1.1

        This can be done concurrently and would certainly be my first choice (if money and political machinations were under my control) but you need the defences and troops on the ground before you build the infrastructure

    • Pascals bookie 7.2

      I agree, would be good. Dunno about NATO though, mainly coz I dunno if the kurds would be interested, we’d have to do what they want to do.

      And yeah, the Turks. But also Iran and Iraq. At the moment thngs are fairly cool between the Kurds and Baghdad, but that’s only coz of ISIS. Baghdad isn’t really that keen on letting the Kurds have Kirkuk, though there is not much they can do about it at the moment. Thos there have been incidents between Shia militia and peshmerga forces.

      the problem is that our allies have competing interests and we keep ignoring those interests, which is why I think things will carry on as they are until we get reps from all communities (not nations, and I’m explicitly including the Iraqi Sunni in this, they need reps distinct from Baghdad) around a table and work out what the end game looks like.

      • Puckish Rogue 7.2.1

        I wonder if the current leaders of the West have the courage to be what needs to be done in this current situation

        I don’t think they do

        I think what will happen is some people will tweet prayfor paris, some people will add a tricolour to their facebook pics and in a couple of weeks it’ll all blow over

    • One Two 7.3

      Any lasting solution will not be the result of anglophile intervention using tools such as NATO and debt

      As long as the ‘western way of life’ continues to be regarded as something other than the corporate destruction that it is, we have NO business in believing we can offer anything but the same , elsewhere

      • Puckish Rogue 7.3.1

        that may well be but it doesn’t change the fact that terrorist attacks are happening more frequently and its only a matter of time before it happens here

        • McFlock

          what, you mean like bombing a trades hall or a ship?

          • alwyn

            Wow, you really keep up with the news don’t you?
            One happened in 1984 and the other in 1985. Thirty years ago and nothing since?
            Even then no one has ever found out who carried out the first one so it is difficult to really claim it as terrorism isn’t it?

            • McFlock

              interesting idea, that terrorism is only terrorism if the perpetrators are known.

              What are you trying to do – pretend that NZers have never experienced terrorism? Fuck, my local campus was deserted a few weeks back because people were expecting some nutter with a gun.

              • alwyn

                No, actually.
                I am merely saying that in the Trades Hall bombing we have no real idea of why someone did it. It could have been for any reason at all.
                We have had a number of cases of terrorism. One was the anarchist nut who tried to blow up the Wanganui Computer Centre in 1982.

          • miravox

            Re the ship – the French Foreign Minister and using State terrorism to deal with dissent.

            After the sinking of the Rainbow Warrior, a Greenpeace ship, on 10 July 1985, Prime Minister Fabius summoned journalists to his office on 22 September 1985 to read a 200-word statement in which he said: “The truth is cruel,” and acknowledged that “Agents of the French secret service sank this boat. They were acting on orders.”…

            On 17 May 2012, Laurent Fabius became Foreign Minister in the government of Jean-Marc Ayrault, appointed Prime Minister by President François Hollande.

            Hopefully age and experience has brought some wisdom.

  8. The Fairy Godmother 8

    Claire Trevett has an article in the Remuera National Party Newsletter about how the Labour Party is running at a deficit and therefore can’t criticise the Government for running a deficit. Clutching at straws imho

    • Puckish Rogue 8.1

      Can’t convince an electorate to vote for him but expects the country to vote for him, can’t fund raise and run a political party but expects to be able to run an economy


      • BM 8.1.1

        How does a political party run at a deficit and still survive?
        What are you borrowing against?

        • Puckish Rogue

          Its good for a government to run a deficit but pretty shonkey for a political party to be running a deficit I’d have thought

          • DH

            Did you not read the article PR or are you just shitestirring?

            They’re not running a deficit, they merely funded some of their (unexpected) operating expenses from cash reserves. That’s what a reserve is for.

            That’s pretty disgusting ‘journalism’ from Trevett IMO.

            • Puckish Rogue

              and those reserves won’t last forever but of course people are voting with their wallets…

              Bet the Greens coffers arn’t too bad at the moment

              • DH

                “and those reserves won’t last forever ….

                Wtf are you on about? The article said that Labour had unforeseen costs over and above their normal (and budgeted) expenses, such as the leadership changes. That’s what cash reserves are for, to cover unexpected bills. When times are rosy they’ll no doubt build up the reserves again.

            • McFlock

              silly question 🙂

            • Paul

              No doubt Trevett had a cushy position lined up for her services to Dear Leader.

        • left for deadshark

          Bloody minded,..Political capital mate, just as English thinks debt an asset.


  9. Morrissey 9

    In Paris in 1961, Paris police killed 300 peaceful protestors
    and then dumped their bodies into the River Seine.

    Since the atrocities in Paris on Saturday, we have been inundated with a flood of sanctimonious words, hypocritical posturing, official lies and distortions, accompanied often by mournful assertions that “the world has changed forever”. But one of the most cynical lies repeated over the last couple of days is the contention by French politicians, assiduously reiterated by the media, that Saturday’s horror was “the deadliest violence on its soil since World War II”.

    In fact, it wasn’t even close to the deadliest violence on French soil since World War II. That dubious honour belongs not to ISIS, but to the French state…..

    France remembers Algerian massacre 50 years on
    by KIM WILLSHER in Paris, The Guardian, Monday 17 October 2011

    Politicians, historians and protesters gathered in Paris to mark the 50th anniversary of a police crackdown on Algerian anti-war demonstrators that has become one of the most shameful episodes of modern French history.

    The events of 17 October 1961 are considered a massacre by many Algerians, who claim up to 300 members of their community died at the hands of the Paris police. Many are angry that the French government has never officially apologised for the bloody attack – which does not appear in school history books – and that the authorities still dispute the death toll. According to officials, less than a handful of protesters died, while historians say the number of Algerians killed – some of them beaten and thrown into the river Seine – was between 50 and 120.

    On Monday, François Hollande chose to mark the tragedy as his first official engagement as the newly elected Socialist party presidential candidate. Hollande, named as the Socialists’ choice to take on Nicolas Sarkozy in next year’s presidential elections barely 12 hours earlier, on Monday threw a single red rose into the Seine from the bridge at Clichy, the suburb where many of the victims lived.

    Afterwards he unveiled a plaque engraved with: “From this bridge and other bridges in the Paris region, Algerian demonstrators were thrown into the Seine on the 17 October 1961, victims of a blind repression. In their memory.” Benjamin Stora, a local resident and specialist in Algerian history, said it was a first step towards “recognising one of the biggest French tragedies”.

    Bertrand Delanoë, the mayor of Paris who was born in Tunisia, another former French colony, placed a wreath at the St Michel bridge where there is a plaque marking what his office described as a “bloody repression”.

    On the evening of 17 October 1961, at the height of the Franco-Algerian war, tens of thousands of Algerian protesters, including women and children, from around Paris gathered at various landmarks to demonstrate against what they considered a “racist and discriminatory” curfew imposed against them. The mobilisation had been organised by the Paris wing of the Algerian National Liberation Front (FLN), an organisation that was fighting for Algeria’s independence from France and had been accused of carrying out attacks on Paris police that left a dozen dead.

    It was intended to be a peaceful demonstration, but Maurice Papon, the Paris police chief, ordered his officers to stamp out the protests. As the Algerians gathered, the police acted swiftly and brutally, firing on protesters and arresting an estimated 11,500 who were herded on to buses and taken to makeshift detention centres where many claimed they were beaten and held for days without food.

    Claims that officers had beaten protesters and dumped them into the Seine appeared to be confirmed when bodies were washed up on the banks of the river.

    Read more….

  10. Molly 11

    John Key demonstrates – predictably – cultural ignorance of the country which he represents in his glib response to question regarding the return of soldiers who died in Malaysia and Vietnam: :Kiwi soldiers will remain buried in Malaysia – John Key

  11. Rosie 12

    I’ve missed something. What is this reference to “crickets” on TS lately, often in response to the screwy logic of RWer’s?

    Any relation to “there are no crickets in Wayward Pines” ? (not on this trailer, but it’s an excellent show. You can watch on line)

    • CR 12.1

      Rosie, ‘crickets’ refers to silence in the airwaves…as in nothing but the sound of crickets chirping

    • maui 12.2

      Search on youtube, “Awkward Silence Cricket Sound”, and you should get it 🙂

      • Rosie 12.2.1

        Thanks CR and maui. Now I am up with the times.

        This from you tube explains it too:

        “Great to use right after the comedy drum when no one talks or laughs at your stupid joke.”

    • AsleepWhileWalking 12.3

      Looks like a good show. Might have to watch

      • Rosie 12.3.1

        It’s been one of my favourites this year. Its’ quite sinister and has some depth to it. The theme is manufactured societies and the authoritarian drive to compel citizens to conform, or else. A good steady plot with some interesting surprises. Melissa Leo’s performance (from Treme) was fantastic.

  12. savenz 13

    ALGARY – Prime Minister Justin Trudeau’s federal government is following through on an election promise to ban crude oil tanker traffic off the coast of northern British Columbia

  13. alwyn 14

    Can anyone explain what on earth Little was saying on Morning Report today?

    He sounded as if he hadn’t sobered up yet from last night’s binge.
    The interviewer, who usually tries very hard to make him sound as if he had at least a room temperature IQ, finally seemed to give up. Trying to make him sound sensible simply proved to be impossible.
    Part of his premise seemed to be that since the Iraqi Army wasn’t currently very good we shouldn’t try and improve their performance by training them.

    I wonder if he plans to do something similar here, perhaps in education?
    “I’m sorry Mrs Jones. Your son Johnny isn’t able to read very well so we have decided not to try and help him. We think he should just be dumped on the educational scrapheap”.

    • One Anonymous Bloke 14.1

      Aww cute! You’ve got another false dichotomy. Speaking of IQ, it’s hardly surprising you failed to grasp Little’s remarks.

  14. One Anonymous Bloke 15

    Schadenfreude is like sugar: I know I shouldn’t but it tastes so sweet!

  15. Morrissey 16

    Michael Laws will be choking in bile when he hears this news…

  16. Rosie 17

    Last week on the radio, Wellington’s “Green” Mayor defended WCC’s right to let a council venue, the TSB Arena, out for hire for the defence industry conference. She was labelled by the DJ as a hypocrite for previously referring to herself as a pacifist.

    Well, I hope CeCe is paying attention now. Not only does hiring a council venue out for a warmongers conference look bad, and is morally questionable it brings avoidable tension to the city that the WCC are linked with because it’s their venue.

    • weka 17.1

      I agree, letting council venues to warmongers is bizarre.

      Is she a Green mayor?

      She is the second mayor of a major New Zealand city to be a member of the Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand, after Dunedin’s Sukhi Turner, but she stood as an independent candidate.

      • Rosie 17.1.1

        “Green Mayor” is more a colloquial term than anything but locals are familiar with her Green Party connections. From your link, under the heading Wellington mayoral campaign 2013 is this:

        “Celia Wade-Brown – The incumbent since 2010, she has served as a Southern Ward councillor. She stood for the Green Party for Parliament in 1996 (under the Alliance banner), 1999 and 2002.”

        What I find odd about her personal view of it being ok to hire out a council venue to the warmongers conference (and I do mean personal as she’s not the ones taking the venue bookings) is that I have heard her anti war views during the public celebrations for 30 years of Wellington being nuclear free. She spoke with real pride about how we were the first city in NZ to go nuclear free and gave a rousing speech about the importance of communities and countries having a commitment to peace.

        FWIW I sense there has been a creeping hypocrisy entering her mayoralty in this term. Just one example – I have tried and failed, to raise with her the environmental failure that is the poorly planned car centric, socially isolated, no amenities housing developments of the northern burbs. Ironically she has been championing them and even worse, is a supporter of the SHA Accord, which strips away the usual requirements for housing development under the RMA.

        I could go on but won’t.

      • Petertoo 17.1.2

        The only thing that is green about Celia Wade-Brown are those that think she subscribes to Green values. In reality, she is the tame pup of the Business Round Table and the property speculator class. One might say ‘corrupt’ but as yet, no-one seems to have found the brown paper bag full of high denomination notes.

  17. Morrissey 18

    Will New Zealand get a Labour leader with courage like Jeremy Corbyn?
    Let’s hope so….

    • Colonial Viper 18.1

      Little? Zero chance. He’s shown he won’t stand up against the corporates as per the TPP. He’s shown he won’t stand up against the security state as per the spying anti terror legislation. He’s shown he won’t stand with benes as per the social welfare reform law.

      • Morrissey 18.1.1

        I lost all confidence in Little when he caved in to the government over the Snooping bill. His speech after that, where he said that “next time” he and the opposition would not cave in like this, was one of the most abject performances I have ever seen.

  18. Clean_power 19

    How long will it take to decapitate ISIS leadership? A few bombs will reunite them with their Allah.

    • McFlock 19.1


      How stupid are you? You do realise that AQ is still being successful in various regions, and the Taliban is still going strong? Fuck, the Israelis have tried that for years against Hezbollah, Hamas and the PLO.

      But apparently using the same volunteer-producing strategy will somehow work against Daesh.

      • Colonial Viper 19.1.1

        Clean Power reckons its as easy as taking out the Boss at the end of a computer game level.

      • joe90 19.1.2

        How stupid are you?

        Stupid with bells on I reckon.

        As of 3:59 p.m. EST Nov. 12, the U.S. and coalition have conducted a total of 8,125 strikes (5,321 Iraq / 2,804 Syria).


        As of Nov. 14, U.S. and partner nation aircraft have flown an estimated 57,301 sorties in support of operations in Iraq and Syria.


        As of Oct. 31, 2015, the total cost of operations related to ISIL since kinetic operations started on Aug. 8, 2014, is $5 billion and the average daily cost is $11 million for 450 days of operations. A further breakdown of cost associated with the operations is here.

    • Draco T Bastard 19.2

      Contrary to what you RWNJs believe anybody can be a leader. Due to this fact CEOs should actually be on minimum wage.

    • Morrissey 19.3

      They need to bomb Washington, London, Riyadh and Ankara, which are the main supporters of ISIS.

  19. joe90 20

    An heroic stand against the 3-year-old orphan threat.

    Hugh Hewitt Verified account

    Because he lacks confidence in Administration’s vetting ability, @ChrisChristie says no Syrian refugees now, not even “3 year old orphan

  20. AsleepWhileWalking 21

    Bad stuff we already know via Jane Kelsey, but reproduced here in longer form for those in other countries

  21. Anne 22

    Phil Twyford responds to reported smear campaign against him.

    • Draco T Bastard 22.1

      TV3’s Duncan Garner said last night he was told Mr Lusk was being funded by “Chinese money” to carry out a “direct mailout” that would focus on the Te Atatu MP.

      Foreign money needs to be kept out of our politics and thus things like this need to be illegal.

  22. weka 23

    This isn’t new but appropriate to ressurect. Explanation of why so many people are wrong for blaming Islam.

    Religious scholar Reza Aslan took some serious issue on CNN Monday night with Bill Maher‘s commentary about Islamic violence and oppression. Maher ended his show last Friday by going after liberals for being silent about the violence and oppression that goes on in Muslim nations. Aslan said on CNN that Maher’s arguments are just very unsophisticated.

    He said these “facile arguments” might sound good, but not all Muslim nations are the same.

    • McFlock 23.1

      I really like that dude – I’ve got one of his books at home (“How to win a cosmic war”). Dovetailing that with Ignatieff’s “Blood and belonging” results in a really interesting perspective.

      • weka 23.1.1

        It was the intelligence and ability to communicate so well (and staunchly) that I liked.

        • Ergo Robertina

          Staunch might be your word for it. He’s a bully.
          By pushing the interviewers round, he enabled at least one clear misrepresentation: Turkey as upholder of women’s rights.
          In Turkey there’s a diminishing legacy from secularisation, and there is honour killing, child ”marriage”, and women are encouraged to reconcile with violent partners and most crucially, the trajectory is negative.
          President Erdogan explicitly stated women are not equal:
          Aslan makes a valid point about Saudi Arabia, but uses that country to narrow the debate and bully those who disagree.

          • weka

            Women aren’t equal anywhere, but in varying degrees, which I think was his point i.e. look at each individual country not one religion as a whole that spans many different countries with different practices.

            I don’t see the bullying behaviour. He’s a guest on a show and he’s forthright, and yes he points out where the interviewers are wrong but he doesn’t engage in typical bullying behaviour.

            • Ergo Robertina

              Yes it is his point, and it’s a neat tactic to evade the issue.
              By citing gender inequality in the West (the number of elected representatives), and the gross misogyny of Saudi Arabia, he tries to exonerate (and even hold as standard bearers) states like Turkey that are on a negative trajectory in respect of women’s rights.
              It’s a dismissive non sequitur to say women ”aren’t equal anywhere”, because the point is the direction of travel.

              • weka

                I don’t see how it’s a neat tactic to evade the issue when he’s making a point about religion not gender. I think you mean he is factually incorrect. Your point about Turkey’s negative trajectory is valid and important, but it doesn’t negate his point, which is that you can’t condemn all of Islam based on cherry picking the worst countries. For instance if you put Turkey aside as an example, is his point still made?

                I really wanted him to use Ethiopia and the US as examples of how Christianity suppresses women 😈 Imagine if the mainstream narrative about Christianity was based on Ethiopia instead of the Western Christian countries.

                “It’s a dismissive non sequitur to say women ”aren’t equal anywhere”, because the point is the direction of travel.”

                We can debate sometime how much of a positive trajectory NZ is on re gender.

      • Ergo Robertina 23.1.2

        According to the Observer’s review of Aslan’s book, he describes the motivation of one of the London July 7 bombers as ”love”, and his writing becomes ”overwrought” with emotion over Obama’s election.
        So definitely not my kind of dude, but each to their own and all that.
        Also events have overtaken Aslan’s book and its prescriptions, as many jihadists now are from prosperous societies (and have had good opportunities on an individual basis).

        • McFlock

          It’s still an interesting read – the Guardian review seems to ignore most of what I remember about the book. The review seems to lose the forest for the trees, IMO.

  23. Morrissey 24

    Is there any bag of foul wind fouler than that hypocrite Dr Phil McGraw?
    Dr Phil, TV3, Tuesday 17 November 2015

    sanctimonious adj. showing or marked by false piety or righteousness; hypocritically virtuous.

    The TV3 programme notes on this show billed it like this: “Two young women accuse their father of physically and verbally abusing them.” #blamingdad

    The dad was pretty much the model of what Bob McCoskrie would call a perfect father. He protested to Dr Phil: “I ain’t the greatest dad in the world, but I ain’t no ogre. I spanked them and I slapped them but…”

    But all the protestations in the world cut no ice with Dr. Phil, that supreme moral arbiter, that exemplar of core American values, that upholder of all that decent and right in the world. Dr Phil sternly lectured him that violence and shouting had no place in his relationships with his daughters, no matter how old they were.

    So what WOULD that dad have had to do to earn praise, rather than censure, by Dr. Phil? Well, he might have tried shooting hundreds of people, including women and children, in another country…

    • weka 24.1

      You think Phil McGraw is wrong to not support a man who hits his daughters? I don’t get the reference to shooting.

      • Morrissey 24.1.1

        Of course he was right to upbraid him about hitting his daughters.

        The point of my post was to note how odd it was for him to take that stance, in view of the fact he had, earlier this year, called a notorious mass murderer “a modern-day American hero”.

        • weka

          Both of those things are completely unapparent in your original comment. Still no idea what you are talking about.

          • Morrissey

            Click on the links from my first post, and it will be quite clear. But, briefly, my objection to Dr Phil pronouncing about anything is this:

            Earlier this year he claimed that the notorious Chris Kyle, the American sniper who killed hundreds of men, women and children in Afghanistan (the Department of “Defense” officially confirmed he had more than 160 victims) was “a modern-day American hero”….

            The life and death of Chris Kyle has captivated millions. He risked his life fighting for this country. He miraculously survived the most dangerous combat zones …. a modern-day American hero.”

            In the light of the depravity of his endorsement of Kyle, I don’t think Dr Phil is a fit and proper person to make a judgement on the character of anyone.

            Do you?

            • weka

              Sorry, still don’t know what you are on about. The first link isn’t that clear, the second two are identical and going on about an Imperial Wizard. If you want me to answer your question you’re going to have to make your point in plain English that doesn’t require 10 mins of further research to understand what you are on about.

              • Morrissey

                1. Chris Kyle was a mass murderer. He was praised by Dr Phil earlier this year as “a modern-day American hero.”

                2. Dr Phil, who praises mass murderers as “modern-day American heroes”, has the temerity to upbraid someone for yelling at his daughters and spanking them.

                3. I don’t approve of spanking, but then I don’t approve of mass murder either. I think I am entitled to lecture someone who spanks his daughters to desist.

                4. Dr Phil doesn’t approve of spanking, but he DOES approve of mass murder. I don’t think he is entitled to lecture ANYONE about anything, because he is a moral imbecile.

                5. Now please read my original links, because it’s all perfectly clear.

                • weka

                  Thanks for explaining.

                  “1. Chris Kyle was a mass murderer. He was praised by Dr Phil earlier this year as “a modern-day American hero.””

                  Citation for Dr Phil ‘praising’ Kyle. The link you provided implies the programme is about Kyle’s parents discussing his mental illness and that he wouldn’t have murdered people if he’s gotten the help he needed. Presumably if Phil did praise Kyle, it wasn’t for the murders. Did Phil praise Kyle for his pre-murdering life? I’m betting it wasn’t for his murdering life.

                  “2. Dr Phil, who praises mass murderers as “modern-day American heroes”, has the temerity to upbraid someone for yelling at his daughters and spanking them.”

                  Lots of people have relative morality. Myself, I think context is important.

                  “3. I don’t approve of spanking, but then I don’t approve of mass murder either. I think I am entitled to lecture someone who spanks his daughters to desist.”

                  I’m not in a position to judge you on that.

                  “4. Dr Phil doesn’t approve of spanking, but he DOES approve of mass murder. I don’t think he is entitled to lecture ANYONE about anything, because he is a moral imbecile.”

                  Citation needed that Dr Phil approves of mass murder. Pretty sure you are making shit up now.

                  “5. Now please read my original links, because it’s all perfectly clear.”

                  As mentioned, I tried and I’m not going to attempt that dog’s breakfast of a comment because I’m guessing it’s full of the same illogic as this one.

                  • Morrissey

                    Read this quote carefully….

                    The life and death of Chris Kyle has captivated millions. He risked his life fighting for this country. He miraculously survived the most dangerous combat zones …. a modern-day American hero.”

                    Now what part of that do you not understand? He is praising a U.S. Army sniper who is “credited” officially with more than 160 kills.

                    You can vapour on all you like about how he is praising him for his “pre-murdering” actions, but nobody will take you seriously.

                    I would be offended by your allegation that I am “making shit up”, but it’s quite obvious you have basic problems in comprehension, as well as a history of hostility towards me. I have humoured you this evening, but I haven’t forgotten how credulous you were a couple of years ago in swallowing all that government black propaganda about Julian Assange, and how you continued, in spite of the allegations being conclusively refuted, to defiantly traduce not only Assange but anyone who dared to support him.

                    It seems you have not improved at all.

                    • weka

                      You can resort to all the ad homs you like Morrisey (and more lies), but when you say “but he DOES approve of mass murder.” I believe you are making shit up. There is a large difference between being able to see someone’s contribution to their country and approving of mass murder. What’s not believable is that Phil McGraw approves of what Kyle did. You are grossly misrepresenting his position for your own argumentative gratification.

                    • Morrissey

                      I think any reasonably intelligent person would interpret these words as endorsement: “He risked his life fighting for this country. He miraculously survived the most dangerous combat zones …. a modern-day American hero.”

                      The person he is endorsing is a sniper who picked off women and children from positions of almost complete safety.

                      I am not going to waste any more time with you while you play your endless game of feigned incomprehension.

                    • weka

                      no, most people would understand that it’s possible to appreciate a soldier’s former life and not approve of them murdering multiple people. There is nothing in what you have posted that supports your assertion that Phil McGraw approves of mass murder (your words).

                      “He risked his life fighting for this country. He miraculously survived the most dangerous combat zones …. a modern-day American hero.”

                      There is only one google hit for any of that quote (your comment), so I’m guessing you transcribed it from the video. Given your transcriptions are shall we say loose at the best of times I’m going to assume that you have grossly misquoted McGraw out of context. I’ll also hazard a guess the McGraw was introducing Kyle when he used those words and the implication is that he was a modern-day American hero for his work as a soldier not for his later mass murder.

                      I’m not surprised you are giving this no more time because you can’t answer the challenge to your argument.

  24. Morrissey 25

    The Paris attacks need to be analyzed by serious, informed commentators.
    So why on earth are these fools even trying to talk about them?

    The Panel, RNZ National, Tuesday 17 November 2015
    Jim Mora, Penny Ashton, John Bishop, Julie Moffett

    bewilderment n. 1. The condition of being confused or disoriented. 2. A situation of perplexity or confusion; a tangle: a bewilderment of lies and half-truths.

    PENNY ASHTON: Bombing them is probably not going to stop them.

    JOHN BISHOP: [gravely] It might not, but what’s the alternative?

    PENNY ASHTON: [thoughtfully] Mmmmmm.

    JOHN BISHOP: The West is certainly vulnerable, in terms of soft targets….
    [He carries on bloviating for several minutes then, thankfully, stops.]

    PENNY ASHTON: Ummm, ahhh, the, y’know, uhhhh, I’m tying myself in knots here…..

    et cetera, et cetera, ad nauseam….

  25. Rosemary McDonald 26

    Good news!

    Well done to the ONLY loud and proud workers union I spotted at the Hamilton TPPA rally.

  26. greywarshark 27

    Robot advice. How long before we can’t trust our own judgment, or what’s left of it.
    Generic economic assumptions, framed questions and de-personalised recommendations that do not properly take into account changing circumstances or investment time horizons are among the concerns identified in an alert issued by the Securities and Exchange Commission and Financial Industry Regulatory Authority.

    Automated investment platforms are part of the ‘robo-advice’ sector in the US, though they are also being used by client-facing advisers as supplementary tools to guard against losing business to the traditional robo-advice giants, such as Betterment and Wealthfront.

    Robot advice is being used in investment, the computer buy and sell on target prices etc.
    This goes further. And when there is a paradigm for juding voting patterns and winning elections then?

  27. Morrissey 28

    CNN anchors berate innocent Paris Muslim because
    he won’t ‘accept responsibility’ for attack

    by DAVID EDWARDS, Monday 16 November 2015

    Two CNN hosts berated the spokesperson for a Muslim outreach group over the weekend because he would not agree that all Muslims share responsibility for the recent attacks in Paris.

    During an interview early Sunday morning, Yaser Louati of the Collective Against Islamophobia in France told CNN anchors Isha Sesay and John Vause that hate speech was being directed toward the Muslim community in response to the attacks.

    “The problem is that you’re still mixing the Muslim community and somehow giving them an affiliation with these terrorists,” Louati explained. “But [French Muslims] are paying two prices. The price of being targeted by these terrorists and some of the right-wing columnists.”

    “We are being asked to choose our camp,” the guest pointed out. “Our camp is the French one. Make no mistake about it.”

    “If your camp is the French camp, then why is it that no one within the Muslim community there in France knew what these guys were up to?” Vause asked.

    “Sir, the Muslim community has nothing to do with these guys,” Louati insisted. “Nothing. We cannot justify ourselves for the actions of someone who claims to be Muslim.”

    “Why not?” Vause interrupted. “What is the responsibility within the Muslim community to identify people within their own ranks when it comes to people who are obviously training and preparing to carry out mass murder.”

    “Sir, they were not from our ranks!” Louati exclaimed. “We cannot accept the idea that these people are from us, they are not. They are just byproducts of our societies exporting their wars abroad and expecting no repercussions back home.”

    Co-host Isha Sesay insisted that Louati had to “accept that responsibility to prevent the bigger backlash” because the “finger of blame is pointing at the Muslim community.”

    “This is a very complicated issue,” Vause said, concluding the segment. “I have yet to hear the condemnation from the Muslim community on this.”

    “The point he is making is, ‘It’s not our fault,’” Sesay noted. “But the fact of the matter is when these things happen, the finger of blame is pointed at the Muslim community and so you have to be preemptive. It’s coming from the community. You’ve got to take a stand.”

    “The word responsibility comes to mind,” Vause opined.

    “It just comes to mind,” Sesay agreed. “You can’t shirk that.”

  28. Morrissey 29

    Great Snipers of Our Time

    Tatang Koswara (1947 – 2015) was a sniper credited with at least 41 confirmed kills during the U.S.-backed Indonesian invasion of East Timor in the 1970s.

    Great Snipers of Our Time is compiled by Morrissey Breen for Daisycutter Sports Inc.

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