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Open mike 18/07/2020

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, July 18th, 2020 - 194 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

194 comments on “Open mike 18/07/2020”

  1. adam 1

    Be nice of people to win votes rather than do the usual and expect them to be delivered votes.

    I think the labour party are little better than national, so there is no way in hell I'd vote for them.

    Why is there a collection of people who think people should vote for them? And go on to try and shame anyone who dares question them?

    Arrogance? Purity? Smug middle class condescension? Or did the Russians do it?

    [TheStandard: A moderator moved this comment to Open Mike as being off topic or irrelevant in the post it was made in. Be more careful in future.]

    • The Al1en 1.1

      And yet you voted for national's support partner the maori party.

      • adam 1.1.1

        And I will again

        • The Al1en


          At least this time they've said they won't work with national, unlike the last time, when you voted to keep them in power.

          • adam

            Lets face facts shall we, labour voted with national more times than the Māori party. Labour stole more land from Māori than any time since the wars. Labour wimped out on closing the gaps because they have no spine. The Māori party got more major initiatives than the greens have been able to.

            That said, at worst the Māori party held national in check. At best they stopped them from going full ideological wing nut.

            But more importantly, the Māori party will be back in parliament this time round.

          • weka

            are you saying that if the Mp hadn't done a deal with National that Labour would have formed government?

            • The Al1en

              No, the point is how someone claiming to be left wing, anti neo lib and equality for all, etc. voted for a national support party.

              It's not my idea of being anti by voting pro.

              Talk of being a handbrake on national is very much bollocks, when they had the votes of act and Dunne to fall back on, and the poverty stats and housing crisis after their nine years sort of say not really.

              • weka

                so when you said,

                "At least this time they've said they won't work with national, unlike the last time, when you voted to keep them in power."

                who is 'them', National or Mp?

                • The Al1en

                  Both. As all election results are unknown before the votes are cast and counted, but knowing a vote for the maori party, as it was their intention to carry on supporting national, was a vote to keep the status quo and national in power.

                  Sure it wouldn't have switched the result if they suddenly refused to work with the then government, but no one knew that on the Saturday of the vote.

  2. With reference to the Natz more roads, saw this interesting video on twitter – not sure if I know how to transfer it over – but here goes:


    Should be compulsory viewing for all RW road lovers.

    Edit – it works – isn’t technology wonderful!

  3. ScottGN 3

    Presumably National was planning on making the transport announcement sometime in the actual election campaign in the hope of winning a day of that campaign. The fact they’ve been compelled to do it now in order to try and stop the polling slide just shows what a disaster the last few weeks have been for them.

  4. ScottGN 4

    So National plans a busway from Onehunga to the city centre. We all know what that will end up like, there’s one that Labour built on the North Shore. It’s basically a little motorway. So National needs to front up and say which parts of some of the loveliest old heritage suburbs across the isthmus will be wrecked to build their project?

    • Muttonbird 4.1

      A Bus Rapid Transit between Onehunga and the CBD is not in Greater Auckland's CFN2.

      New Zealand, eh? Everyone rowing in different directions.

      • tc 4.1.1

        Rail (single track to Penrose) exists into the CBD. Go on MSM ask them which parts of Epsom they'll carve up…btw bus lanes exist last I looked when in akl.

        The stupid is off and running akl has much bigger transport fish to fry.

        • Muttonbird

          Haven't had a close look at the Nats plan for the Airport but basically it's rail from Puhinui to airport then later light rail from airport to Onehunga.

          You are correct that Onehunga to Penrose is single track so that will have to be two-tracked and a heap of level crossings removed if it is to take airport traffic to the CBD. There are no Remuera houses in the way though which is probably why they have proposed it.

          Also can't see how they will get around twin changes, at the airport (rail to light rail) and Onehunga (light rail to rail)???

          • Graeme

            Wasn't the heavy rail option from Puhinui to Airport abandoned because it became too hard / expensive, which is how the light rail proposal came to be the preferred option?

            At least with National supporting the Puhinui line Government can get into it straight away. Same with a lot of National's transport 'policy'

            • Muttonbird

              Not sure. There was a link put up yesterday to a 2018 GA article pulling apart the proposals for the Puhinui spur.

              I got the impression they didn't really attack the idea itself, rather the details around the Wiri interchange, servicing and the expense of tunnelling under the airport itself. Both seem to be resolvable to me. For instance instead of tunnelling, have a raised railway instead.

            • OnceWasTim

              "Wasn't the heavy rail option from Puhinui to Airport abandoned because it became too hard / expensive, which is how the light rail proposal came to be the preferred option?"

              Christ! if that's the case it just shows the extent to which we've fallen.

              But no surprises there really – we can't even restore a rail link to Gisborne, or do the obvious basics, the needs of which will become an inevitability in this future space going forward (such as rail to the Earports in places like Christ's Church, Dunny Din, Tear Ranga, The Tron). Even given things like the original MTL, the Managweka deviation, various power projex.

              Christ! we can't even get a bloody Transmission Gully done without a load of ticket clippers, risk analysts, consultants and all their hanger's looking for their cut, and then screaming mummy when things start to show up a few people as being the bullshit artists they are.

              By the way ( …. that's BTW these days), but does anyone know where the details of the Dominion Road light rail option are? I'd put money on their being incompatible with various future options – things like an inability to use existing infrastructure because of guage differences – that sort of shit.

              • Muttonbird

                I'd put money on their being incompatible with various future options – things like an inability to use existing infrastructure because of guage differences – that sort of shit.

                There is an issue because they will be two separate systems but they can be connected to the same stations where you simply change trains. This is quite normal in cities with extensive PT coverage.

                I believe that's why it's important to have linear solutions which minimise these transfers.

                So let's take for instance a hypothetical light rail 'Central Line' running from the airport to Orewa through the CBD. Those carriages would not be able to travel on the CRL but they can run past the CRL stations and be connected to them.

                A major flaw with Collins’ plan, if you can call it that, is rail from Wiri to airport, then light rail from airport to Onehunga, then rail again from Onehunga to the CBD. Madness.

    • JanM 4.2

      Don't panic, anyone – in Northland we're still waiting for 9 of our 10 bridges!

      • Just Is 4.2.1

        You have to admit though, they did build one, the Taipa Bridge, oh, wait a minute, that was completed only 7 months ago.

  5. Byd0nz 5

    Actually, according to Collins when making the announcement with the other caucus members standing behind her, she said "My plan" etc. Then at the end she addressed the media gathered in front of her with this bit of cringe "Are you stunned". OK I admit that I am biased, but that was a very lame performance and unconvincing.

    • bwaghorn 5.1

      A couple of clips I've seen if her ,shes looked daft . Trying hard to be something she isnt.

    • ianmac 5.2

      During that presentation yesterday Iwas intrigued at the clapping from people out of sight. Journalists don't usually clap. So was it all Tova O'Brian, or were there other supporters there?

      • Incognito 5.2.1

        The sound of one hand clapping.

      • observer 5.2.2

        There was a range of people there, mostly Nat MPs and candidates, but also Auckland business types.

        And give the Tova-bashing a rest. It's tedious and wrong. She did her job this morning, getting Collins on the record, with a series of self-incriminating statements.

        It's not her job to then wake up Labour's campaign team on a Saturday morning and make them use the material Tova's interview has provided. That's up to Collins' opponents.

        Compare the stories on Newshub now with the rebuttals by Labour in the last 48 hours (good luck finding them, Grant did one, that's about it, who's the f***ing Transport Minister?), and then tell me who is doing their job better.

        • Incognito

          Whose job? Labour Ministers? Labour MPs? Labour Comms? Labour Campaign Team? Obviously, whoever it is, they’re missing in action, like a ‘homeless man’ living it up large in a managed hotel.

          What are the jobs of the Fourth Estate and Press Gallery in NZ? Are they doing their job well?

          • observer

            Some are, some aren't. Generalising about "The Media" is stupid.

            As for Labour, I expect them to grasp the fact that things have changed. This is not Muller, lost at sea. Collins will lie and lie, because that's what she does.

            If lies are not rebutted, they win. Anyone who doesn't get that has not been paying attention to modern politics.

            • Sacha

              If lies are rebutted they win. Anyone who doesn't get that has not been paying attention to modern politics.

              • observer

                If that was true, Steven Joyce would now be Finance Minister.

                The $11 billion hole was the Big Lie of the 2017 campaign. And you think Labour were wrong to rebut. OK …

            • Incognito

              If lies are not rebutted, they win. Anyone who doesn't get that has not been paying attention to modern politics.

              When/where are these lies uttered? On Twitter or FB? In the Debating Chamber? When lies don’t get exposed immediately, they’ll get a life of their own very quickly, like a virus; they spread and infect others – some are super spreaders.

              Lying is a deliberate strategy to control the narrative; rebut the lie and you buy into the narrative and down the rabbit hole. When you do this in public, people will see you go down that (rabbit) hole and thus the hole is real, not imaginary. Job done, mission accomplished.

              • observer

                Come on, there's an obvious difference between magnifying a lie in the way you describe, and responding to something which is already all over the news headlines. It's not about dead cats on the table or a political version of the Streisand effect. Brian Tamaki rants and lies? Sure, ignore, don't give him oxygen. Leader of the opposition launches flagship policy? Very different.

                Today was a good example, Collins lied (if only by omission) in her infrastructure speech – they've done no costings for these tunnels through the mountains. Grant Robertson responded, and wins on the 6 pm news:

                Was he right to hit back, or should he have said nothing? Watch and decide for yourselves.

        • ianmac

          …And give the Tova-bashing a rest.

          observer I must admit that watching Tova conduct her interviews this morning she did her job pretty well.

          • I Feel Love

            Tova is pretty even handed, her bombastic trying to catch them out style she uses on Lab & Nat, I give her credit for that.

        • Paddington

          Good comments, Observer. And today we have this desperate nonsense https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2020/07/willie-jackson-goes-for-judith-collins-jugular-over-racially-divisive-remarks.html. Thigs have changed all right.

          • I Feel Love

            Quick scan on Twitter and the RWs are convinced Tova O'Brien is working for Labour, she really gets under people's skin.

  6. Observer Tokoroa 6

    old predictable Judith

    Judith has been in Parliament 18 controversial years and achieved nothing.

    Those that know of her have mostly hung up their caucus boots and departed. Because they do not want to play a useless, empty attack game.

    The remarkably young, and world renowned Jacinda Ardern is the person Judith Collins has stupidly declared she intends to Crush.

    Judith is not bright. Not at all. She is an old quirky aggressive. Cuddling up with a Tazzer Weapon.

  7. swordfish 7

    Chris Trotter (with rose stem between clenched teeth) passionately dances the foxtrot with a demure TRP to the music of MMP:


    • Dennis Frank 7.1

      As the bible says, there's a time for every purpose under heaven. The time for that strategic political action will be if the polls close sufficiently that Labour is risking a loss by not doing so. If! If Judith is a miracle worker… 😒

      • greywarshark 7.1.1

        You are bringing almost poetic touches to the brouhaha swordfish. We can do with your style and novelty and if it can raise consciousness in the soporific in Nuzilland we will be doing a flamboyant flamenco.

    • Muttonbird 7.2

      I sincerely hope Claire Czabo and her comrades down at Labour Party HQ in Wellington have a word with the people at The Standard. Just a little pep talk about loose lips not only sinking ships, but also deep-sixing the trust and confidence of potentially vital coalition partners.

      Last para.

      Not many on the left have done as much over that last decade to deep-six the left’s cause than Chris Trotter.

      Even worse, he does it for the cash.


  8. observer 8

    Collins on TV3 "Nation" gives many hostages to fortune. Everything from cost of her road plans (she admits she doesn't know) to her own polling and caucus leaking – even telling her own MPs to leave.

    If only Labour had people writing this stuff down and telling the voters. That's not "attack politics", Jacinda. That's Labour's job. Don't let Collins get away with it.

    • observer 8.1

      For example: Simon Bridges said …

      "I can't trust Winston Peters"

      Judith Collins says … "I trust Winston Peters" (link up later).

      National leader contradicts front bench spokesman and former leader live on television.

      But nobody will notice, because the well-funded Labour comms team won't put it all over social media or put out press statements, because they're under orders to be nice. FFS.

    • Treetop 8.2

      See the Peter's interview on the Nation, Peter's is in the know about National disgruntled MPs.

      I think more National MPs will resign and another cabinet reshuffle, the weekend will be good for reflection. I cannot see another leadership coup.

    • Incognito 8.3

      On Newshub Nation, I just saw this by-line:

      'Dopey': Judith Collins defends lack of precise costings for tunnel projects

      She’s received a lot of positive (good) press in the last few days and now some less fawning pieces emerge. The pattern in MSM is so predictable.

      • greywarshark 8.3.1

        I was impressed by the strong masculine surety of Bishop discussing the plans for infrastructure spending in NZ which will be the (road) making of us.


        And he is explaining to citizens again how government works. I am sure I remember Bill English telling us they have to balance their budgets just like householders do. Now Chris Bishop:

        He said the programme of works would be paid for by making a significant change in the way the NZ Transport Agency paid for its projects. Currently it's pay as you go – the NZTA takes money in from fuel tax and road user charges and then pays it out for what it wants to build.

        This was not the way most businesses and households operated, Bishop said.

        National would encourage NZTA to borrow on its own balance sheet. It has an asset base of $26 billion a year in state highways and revenue of $4b a year in fuel tax. Under National's plan they would borrow and pay back the debt over 20 to 30 years, like a household taking out a mortgage.

        "That provides quite a significant chunk for the programme we've announced today."

        The land and roads that NZTA oversees creates an 'asset base' on which they can borrow. And if they don't pay back the debt then what will happen – will some overseas entity take ownership of our road surfaces? However there is actual money in fuel taxes, and if government told NZTA to charge road tolls that allow for untolled roads for the many poor people, that would mean that the roads could become user-pays and give a financial push towards using rail.

        It sounds like that dumb accounting swindle the government have played on hospitals, making the boards pay a tax or something on the land (and buildings?) that we use for physical buildings to provide the health services from. This of course is to ensure efficiency!

        Go home Treasury bods and financiers, back to Mont Pelerin or wherever the mythical temple of pure management economics is situated.

        • Incognito

          I can see the populist appeal but you don’t run the NZ economy like “most businesses and households” and Government borrowing is not “like a household taking out a mortgage”.

          It shows a fundamental misunderstanding but it’s more likely deliberately misleading and spreading disinformation. Either way, it is gobsmacking.

          Calling for business people who like to comment here to point out the many flaws (AKA BS) but I expect them to stay cowardly silent.

    • anker 8.4

      Observer, I really appreciate your comments. I do think that Labour have to be careful with their strategy. I suggest they get a psychologist (Nigel Latta??) on how to deal with a narcissist. Jacinda in depriving of Judith of attention to date, may be the way to go.

      Narcissist hate not getting attention. She's out to provoke Ardern. Really important not to be provoked. I saw Parker on the Duncan Garner show with Bridges yesterday. Bridges all upbeat and chirpy. He even called Parker Davo (shades of David Brent). Parker said Davo, no that doesn't work.

      Everything Bridges said he said, No that's not true. Simple. Not a lie or fake news….Parker kept smiling. Re Judith's nomination to the leadership he said, something like No that's not going to work.

      Look I don't know what Labours strategy should be……….But I do remember the first budget and Bridges got up in parliament and ranted. At the end of it Ardern got up and said "well that was a lot of shouting"

      • observer 8.4.1

        I definitely do not want Ardern to get into a slanging match. She handled both Bridges and Muller well.

        But I do want Labour (not Ardern) to point out simple facts.

        Bridges says he did not vote for Collins as leader. Bridges says National can't trust Winston. But Collins says she can. Those are all statements on the record. We don't need leaks to find them.

      • I Feel Love 8.4.2

        Parker was brilliant, and Garner too, the Nats aren't used to being held to account for the things they say.

  9. aj 9

    In the last 48 hours we have the usual culprits screeching "Russia hacking and stealing covid research, Russia hacking and stealing covid research" which is completely shot down by the reality of cooperation between many countries.

    • Russia on Friday unveiled a deal with AstraZeneca to manufacture a COVID-19 vaccine being developed by the pharmaceuticals giant and Oxford University, a move its wealth fund head said showed Moscow had no need to steal vaccine data.


    • The multiple talks confirm the bloc’s more assertive stance on procuring potential COVID-19 shots and drugs after early U.S. moves in securing promising treatments and vaccines. “We are in talk with several companies on possible COVID-19 vaccines,” a spokesman for the Commission said on Friday, declining to comment on specific firms as negotiations were confidential. More than 150 possible vaccines are being developed and tested around the world to try to stop the pandemic. Of 23 in human clinical trials, at least three are in final Phase III testing – including candidates from China’s Sinopharm and Sinovac Biotech (SVA.O) and AstraZeneca and Oxford University.


  10. peterh 10

    Shooting your self in the foot, Nats & Act, economic disaster our children & grand children will be paying this off forever. Judith we are going to build 31b of new roads and 7b is coming out of the covid recovery fund the the prudent govt have not yet spent

  11. Dennis Frank 11

    Trudeau's pandemic leadership has bounced the Libs up to 40%: https://newsinteractives.cbc.ca/elections/poll-tracker/canada/

    Prime Minister Justin Trudeau's handling of the COVID-19 pandemic has boosted the popularity of the Liberals, who would likely form a majority government if an election were held today. The Conservatives have taken the biggest hit in the polls since the October election, while the New Democrats have held steady. The Bloc Québécois and Greens have experienced only a modest dip in support.

    • Devo 11.1

      Sad how 40% is enough for a comfortable majority in Canada. No wonder Trudeau walked back his promise of proportional representation

      • Bearded Git 11.1.1

        The Canadian electoral system has a significant element of PR within it. It is a million times better than the FPP system in the UK.

        On the basis of the (supposedly terrible) election results in 2019 Corbyn would be PM as head of an SNP/LibDem/Green/Labour coalition if there was MMP in the UK

        • ScottGN

          Care to share which elements of the Canadian electoral system are proportional? As far as I can tell it’s a straight up FPP Westminster system.

          • Bearded Git

            You are right Scott-I retract that. Canada has a crap FPP system. For some reason I was confusing Canada with the Spanish electoral system which does have a PR element, though not as pure as NZ or Germany.

            But my comment re the UK system and Corbyn, above, remains valid.

  12. Koff 12

    A big debate going on here in Oz over suppression versus elimination. Most states and territories have in effect eliminated Covid-19 despite state and federal governments having a suppression strategy. The success in most parts of Oz is now threatened by the accelerating upsurge in Victoria whih has spilled over into NSW (which didn't have any border closures with Victoria until last week.) Victoria, NSW and ScoMo are all dithering over more severe restrictions as the numbers of infections and deaths are rising. The debate between eliminationists (pointing to Taiwan and NZ's success) and the suppressionists (claiming that elimination is impossible and economically damaging) is hotting up and the longer the debate goes on with no resolution it's only likely that more damage will be done.

    Incidentally, it seems that Victoria's upsurge (over 400 new cases yesterday) was caused by lax quarantine facilities at one or two particular hotels and the use of poorly paid untrained security workers – unlike more rigorous quarantine measures used in other states. NZ has probably dodged a bullet and I'm sure the NZ government is keeping a very wary eye on theVictorian situation.


  13. Macro 13

    Nats to repeal the RMA.

    Collins has also announced a National government would repeal the Resource Management Act completely, and replace it with two new pieces of law.

    Just think about that for a moment.

    No plan to manage NZ's resources.

    Just allow civil engineering contractors, foresters, and farmers to completely trash the environment in the pursuit of more profit. Believe me – I have worked in the industry alongside someone who worked in the civil engineering industry before the RMA, and some of the stories he has to tell of environmental recklessness carried out prior to the RMA are horrifying.

    Indeed I see the effects of open slather on the environment by unthinking engineers, miners, foresters, and farmers every day from my lounge window at low tide. Prior to the 1890's the Firth of Thames was navigable up to the town and there were a number of Jetties and wharfs built out into the Firth from the town to receive freight and passengers off the numerous vessels that sailed to and from Auckland as that was the mode of transportation then. The discharge of silt from the mines, and from the land, as foresters and farmers cut down the hillside and riverside trees, has resulted in extensive mudflats that now prohibit navigation in all states of the tide, except high tide. This is but one example of thoughtless behaviour by industries whose only concern is the pursuit of profit.

    The thinking by Collins and her cronies is muddled and fallacious. They simply perceive that the environment is a subset of the economy. Nothing could be more removed from the truth.

    • Incognito 13.1

      Anne Salmond calls it “a Roman circus”.


      • Treetop 13.1.1

        First job for any political party is to crush Covid-19 before it crushes you.

        Collins wants to crush the government which has a differcult ongoing task to prevent the virus from returning into the community.

        I want to hear how Collins would prevent and manage eliminating Covid-19 were it to transmit into the community.

        Come 19 September who has better control and management policy over Covid-19 is the winner.

        • mary_a

          Treetop @ (13.1.1)

          "I want to hear how Collins would prevent and manage eliminating Covid-19 were it to transmit into the community."

          Same here, but so far no mention of any Covid19 policies or plans re community transmission from Collins, despite how highly contagious the disease is. I believe Amy Adams as former National shadow minister of the CovidV19 portfolio was in the process of putting together a Covid19 policy prior to the leadership change. However on becoming leader, Collins killed it off and as far as I know to date, no National MP has taken over Adams' portfolio. These points say Covid19 does not rate a priority for Collins or National! Not good at all.

      • greywarshark 13.1.2

        I have just started reading the Roman themed novels of Lindsey Davis with a smart spy called Marcus Falco getting about like Superman, or Batman? The types of problems he deals with in the book I've read aren't too far away from our present selection. He gets to win obviously, as their have been a large number in the series. That winning, or surviving, makes for good light reading with a positive outcome, to combat the negatives so constant.

        • Treetop

          Collins is also thin on Covid-19 response money.

          Survivors are winners. It is the what needs to happen to survive that is the issue for me.


          To remember that better days are ahead and today I am surviving.

          • Incognito

            There are many ways of ‘dying’ and only one involves actual medical/biological death. In order to survive, everything is allowed, even self-defence. When people feel their livelihood is under threat, e.g. they might lose their job & status, their house & status, or their business & status, it feels to them as if they’re ‘dying’. They will act accordingly and in line with the threat(s). National is very good at tapping into this raw emotion that includes fear & anger and they don’t shy away from fuelling it.

            • Treetop

              I get it that a full life is so much better than just existing.

              I will settle for surviving for the time being and have control over what I can control.

      • ianmac 13.1.3

        Anne Salmond is a credible voice from the real world.

        Does the Opposition realise that our country is in lethal danger, and that a global pandemic is raging? Do they understand that at present, New Zealanders need calm, intelligent, trustworthy leadership, focused on the future and our collective survival?

    • dv 13.2

      Think of the economic growth when the next lot of leaky building need to be fixed. (Sarc)

    • Below are the parts of the RMA that Collins hates because they give significant protection to natural resources, especially landscape values.

      It would be a disaster if she were to be elected-all of these protections would be thrown on the scrap heap in order to help Collins' money hungry developer mates.

      5 Purpose
      (1) The purpose of this Act is to promote the sustainable management of natural
      and physical resources.
      (2) In this Act, sustainable management means managing the use, development,
      and protection of natural and physical resources in a way, or at a rate, which
      enables people and communities to provide for their social, economic, and cultural
      well-being and for their health and safety while—
      (a) sustaining the potential of natural and physical resources (excluding
      minerals) to meet the reasonably foreseeable needs of future generations;
      (b) safeguarding the life-supporting capacity of air, water, soil, and ecosystems;
      (c) avoiding, remedying, or mitigating any adverse effects of activities on
      the environment.

      6 Matters of national importance
      In achieving the purpose of this Act, all persons exercising functions and
      powers under it, in relation to managing the use, development, and protection
      of natural and physical resources, shall recognise and provide for the following
      matters of national importance:
      (a) the preservation of the natural character of the coastal environment (including
      the coastal marine area), wetlands, and lakes and rivers and their
      margins, and the protection of them from inappropriate subdivision, use,
      and development:
      (b) the protection of outstanding natural features and landscapes from inappropriate
      subdivision, use, and development:
      (c) the protection of areas of significant indigenous vegetation and significant
      habitats of indigenous fauna:
      (d) the maintenance and enhancement of public access to and along the
      coastal marine area, lakes, and rivers:
      (e) the relationship of Maori and their culture and traditions with their ancestral
      lands, water, sites, waahi tapu, and other taonga:
      (f) the protection of historic heritage from inappropriate subdivision, use,
      and development:
      (g) the protection of protected customary rights:
      (h) the management of significant risks from natural hazards.

      7 Other matters
      In achieving the purpose of this Act, all persons exercising functions and
      powers under it, in relation to managing the use, development, and protection
      of natural and physical resources, shall have particular regard to—
      (a) kaitiakitanga:
      (aa) the ethic of stewardship:
      (b) the efficient use and development of natural and physical resources:
      (ba) the efficiency of the end use of energy:
      (c) the maintenance and enhancement of amenity values:
      (d) intrinsic values of ecosystems:
      (e) [Repealed]
      (f) maintenance and enhancement of the quality of the environment:
      (g) any finite characteristics of natural and physical resources:
      (h) the protection of the habitat of trout and salmon:
      (i) the effects of climate change:
      (j) the benefits to be derived from the use and development of renewable

    • joe90 13.4

      There's nothing muddled or fallacious about her and her cronies' callous indifference.

      Ms Collins said she had no idea environmentalists were concerned about digging up wetland areas.

      While it is illegal to export raw native timber, 3 News understands Oravida is planning to set up a processing plant so it can send the Kauri offshore as a finished product.

      Ms Collins said the concerns have nothing to do with her.

      "Does that have anything to do with me? Am I the minister of wetlands? Go and find someone who actually cares about this, because I don't," she said.

      "There's a large number of our birds that depend on wetlands for their survival," said Dr Smith.

      "It's not my issue. I don't like wetlands – they're swamps," said Ms Collins.

      This is all comes less than a month after the Victoria Forest Park controversy, when Energy Minister Simon Bridges signed off the biggest forest park in the country for oil exploration, despite never having heard of it.


  14. joe90 14

    The coverup has begun…

  15. Observer Tokoroa 15

    To: Beared Git

    Thank you for your Article.

    Oravida ( old Mrs Collins says she knows nothing about it) is going to export miles of native timbers to China.

    As well, Simon Bridges is going to dig up the largest Wet Lands in Aoteroa and sell the oil off for himself and his national idiots. the Wet Lands will disappear.

    For such is the criminality of National Idiots.

  16. Stuart Munro 16

    I'm quite fond of Krugman, generally speaking. He's scientist enough to be swayed by evidence. I wonder if our Treasury can claim as much.

    Krugman writes that he and other mainstream economists “missed a crucial part of the story” in failing to realize that globalization would lead to “hyperglobalization” and huge economic and social upheaval, particularly of the industrial middle class in America. And many of these working-class communities have been hit hard by Chinese competition, which economists made a “major mistake” in underestimating, Krugman says. It was quite a “whoops” moment, considering all the ruined American communities and displaced millions of workers we’ve seen in the interim.

  17. joe90 17

    Looks like 'Murica's dirty war has kicked off.


    “A peaceful protester in Portland was shot in the head by one of Donald Trump’s secret police,” Sen. Ron Wyden (D-Ore.) wrote in a Thursday tweet that also called out acting DHS secretary Chad Wolf. “Now Trump and Chad Wolf are weaponizing the DHS as their own occupying army to provoke violence on the streets of my hometown because they think it plays well with right-wing media.”

    Civil rights advocates suggested the Trump administration is testing the limits of its executive power.

    “I think Portland is a test case,” Zakir Khan, a spokesman for the Oregon chapter of the Council on American-Islamic Relations, told The Post. “They want to see what they can get away with before launching into other parts of the country.”

    Jann Carson, interim executive director of the American Civil Liberties Union of Oregon, called the recent arrests “flat-out unconstitutional” in a statement shared with The Post.

    “Usually when we see people in unmarked cars forcibly grab someone off the street, we call it kidnapping,” Carson said. “Protesters in Portland have been shot in the head, swept away in unmarked cars, and repeatedly tear-gassed by uninvited and unwelcome federal agents. We won’t rest until they are gone.”

    http://archive.vn/79fPg (wapo)

    • joe90 17.1

      Going full Pinochet.

      I have been worried about something like this happening for over a month now since the beginning of the protests in response to the murders of George Floyd and Breonna Taylor. That teams of Federal law enforcement, with the majority coming from the Bureau of Prisons Disturbance Response Units (they’re trained to go in one on top of each other into cells or areas of Federal prisons and use maximum force to achieve compliance) and C&BP’s equivalents of Rapid Response Units would be deployed to all the major urban areas, especially those with majority or plurality minority populations (African American, Latinx, or a combination of the two). Specifically, that they will be used in an increasingly visible manner over the next 100 days or so culminating in widespread visible use of them during early voting periods and on election day in or near voting precincts, as well as near mail in ballot drop boxes at municipal facilities. A program of voter suppression under color of law. While the mayors and governors of these states who are Democrats will push back, and the Democratic governors won’t allow their National Guard to be pulled into these operations, the states that have Republican governors aligned with the President like Florida, Georgia, Texas, Ohio, etc, even if the cities being targeted have Democratic leadership (Miami, Tampa, Orlando, Atlanta, Austin, Houston, Cincinnati, etc), will play ball with the President, the Attorney General, and the Acting Secretary of Homeland Security.


      Now that the Republican National Committee is out from under the Federal court imposed requirement not to use paid election monitors, I have long predicted that they would hire off duty law enforcement to work as election monitors while in uniform. While this is what got them in trouble to begin with in the 1980s and resulted in the Federal court order that was finally lifted last year, the RNC knows it works and paired with an escalating use of Federal law enforcement within urban areas between now and the election in November would go along way to suppressing the vote under the color of law.


  18. Dennis Frank 18

    Steve Braunias reviewed JC's autobiography: https://www.newsroom.co.nz/readingroom/judith-joylessly

    Much of Pull No Punches is a litany of bland little certainties. But one of the enduring appeals of Collins as a politician is the way she seems animated by rage and bitterness, and these hostilities are expressed throughout the book towards its dark stain, its bad dream – John Key. Here, then, is the joy and the catharsis she felt as an author: utu, served cold.

    Briefly, or intermittently, the book comes to life; but it’s only a half-life. Collins omits to deal in any detail with the hacked emails between her and Slater that Hager published in Dirty Politics. Slater’s name is mentioned only in passing in Pull No Punches. She blathered to Andrea Vance of Stuff this weekend, “I mean, honestly, I got about six pages [in Dirty Politics]. John Key and John Key’s office got chapters.” Actually she got 10 pages, and an entire chapter; her name features in the book’s index as heavily as the other goons and operatives implicated in Dirty Politics – Jason Ede, David Farrar, Jordan Williams, Simon Lusk.

    She was thick as thieves with Slater for years. Hager writes, "They were drawn together by …a shared attraction to aggressive and often petty attack politics.” Some of their exchanges are actually kind of funny. Their name for Ardern: “My Little Pony.” I think it’s only fair to appreciate Collins as a humourist.

    Earlier Steve had this to say in respect of her literary style, following with a prescient comment on the timing of publication:

    She declared war on the comma. “Never did I feel so attached to anything I have written as I do to this book. It has been the most cathartic experience.” And then a terrible threat: “I have enjoyed it so much that I will keep on writing.” It’s really not necessary.

    What joy, what catharsis? I don’t know if Pull No Punches is intended as a job application as such – you know, to take over as National leader if the hapless Muller fails in September – but it certainly provides a bland and joyless mission statement. The mission is to present herself as invulnerable and impeccable.

    I found his review intriguing, inasmuch as he makes a strong analytic case for how the autobiography reveals her character. More one-dimensional than I expected…

    • Patricia 2 18.1

      Whilst pulicising her book "Pull No Punches" I heard Judith Collins say she was writing another book but needed a good punchy title. After the election maybe "On The Ropes Again" could be a goer ?

      • Dennis Frank 18.1.1

        😊 Would imply acceptance of defeat though. She'd be more likely to frame it to herself as a temporary glitch. Surprising that she's writing another so soon eh? I suspect she will struggle to find motivation to finish it…

    • I Feel Love 18.2

      She crushes those commas!

  19. RedBaronCV 19

    I'm a bit puzzled by this. Canadian whose original intention was a 6 week stay here then moving on to London. Then applied for a work visa and wondering why a work visa hasn't been issued pronto but as far as I can see there are now flights available to both Canada and London so he can continue his journey. Also seems to want to undermine just about any working conditions available locally.

    Why is there no push back in the story? He has choices other than a work visa.


  20. P.e..?.e....r the other one 20

    Conflicting opinions confuse readers, fatal mistake if you want to win elections. Follow a consolidated message so close to an election. Standing 2 progressive candidates in Auckland Central is stupid. Split the vote and National win. Happened in 3 or four electorates in 2017. No wonder the left is viewed as incompetent, they can not even consolidate their election strategy. Sigh, you have a duty of care re Kiwi's, dont confuse. But then it is said "you cant fix stupid" how true. Seems progressives in NZ a bit slow to comprehend.

    [Please pick one user name and stick to it – weka]

    [TheStandard: A moderator moved this comment to Open Mike as being off topic or irrelevant in the post it was made in. Be more careful in future.]

    • weka 20.1

      mod note for you above.

    • weka 20.2

      "Conflicting opinions confuse readers"

      You're new here, so I'll spell it out for you. The site exists to provide space for robust debate. Authors are free to write what they want (there is no editorial control), and frequently disagree with each other. The value in this is that ideas get hashed out and in a strong debate culture the stupid/unhelpful ones tend to torn apart. The useful/interesting ones also get pulled apart and made better. This is normal political process.

      Please read the Policy and About so you understand the purpose of the site.

      btw, I tend to take a dim view of people who comment in such a way that makes me think they didn't bother to read the post, especially people who then want to use my post to slag off a political party or the left.

    • Incognito 20.3

      Sure, voters like clarity and consistency, which doesn’t mean simple or easy; they’re clever enough and they don’t like being patronised.

      So, “the left” is viewed as “incompetent”, presumably by ‘the right’? What do you consider “the left”? Should they talk & act with one voice and pretend they represent ‘the left voters’, whoever those are?

      BTW, thanks for picking a different user name but I reckon this could tricky to get exactly right each time; one minor difference/typo will be picked up by the system and your comment will end up pending in Pre-Moderation until a Moderator releases it. Moderators don’t like extra work, least of all in Pre-Election time.

    • observer 20.4

      "Split the vote and National win. Happened in 3 or four electorates in 2017."

      Sure. That's why National are in government now. They won some electorates.

      • Muttonbird 20.4.1


        Username = "P.e..?.e….r the other one"

        Complains 'the left' is confusing him.

        Ok, champ.

    • anker 20.5

      Re P.e….?.e…r

      "You have a duty of care re Kiwi's, don't confuse"…………………..how confusing do you think it has been for Kiwis to see the billboards "strong team" and then see three different leaders in less than three months, one who swanned in telling us he was going to be the next PM and now, it seems not…….Bennett, Adams and Kaye gone within weeks……………Shadow health minister criticising Labour for the privacy breaches, then whoops a daisy, turns out he knew that his own team had done the leaking all along……

      Very confusing of Adams to say retiring for family reasons then shes back! Now she's gone!!!!!

      • Labour/Ardern…….completely clear……….Ardern clear about the arrangements re gifting seats……..

      You are new here. Feel free to stick around and note the calibre of the debate. So far your contribution falls well below the standard here. You will be shot down every time you contribute unless you lift your game……….but maybe you can't fix stupid

  21. Robert Guyton 21

    Commenters and readers here do understand that the latest face of the National Party is not one that will change anything at all with regards the future and direction Jacinda Ardern and her team have set for the country – don't you? The bellowing and posturing from the boiled-down National Party leadership will achieve … nothing at all.

    • weka 21.1

      I hope that's true 🙂 (I fear that JC will create some shit and make politics worse, but maybe that will just backlash against her, fingers crossed)

      • Robert Guyton 21.1.1

        We humans are so easily spooked. If you feel that honesty, sincerity and kindness will prevail, the whipped-up "latest developments" will seem like a light rain on your umbrella.

      • Robert Guyton 21.1.2

        Judith Collins, weka? Have you so little faith in Jacinda's abilities, her support and the circumstances we find ourselves in to fear the actions of a person like Judith Collins? I see a mangy old tomcat, hissing and spitting with people noticing the rank odour of an animal long past it's prime smiley

        • Incognito

          A tomcat??

        • weka

          lol. I have been starting to roll my eyes a bit at all the lefties wanting to talk about National so much. I'm sure she will make good use of that.

          • Incognito

            Good point, which means that the Left wants to hear and talk about stories from the Left. Where is the overarching story for our future from the progressive Left? Till we have one, we will be tempted, forced almost, to look at S & M show put on for us by the Right. Not only are we a willing audience of (paying) spectators, there’s never a shortage, it seems, of willing volunteers to join in.

            • weka

              we appear to be too busy poking a stick at each other, or ostracising each other, to have a coherent and useful overarching story.

              And yep about the audience. The posts about the reactionary stuff will garner more engagement, almost every time.

              But that too is a self-defeating narrative and I tend to agree with Robert about confidence and how we choose to position ourselves. Will have to think about this.

    • observer 21.2

      " not one that will change anything at all with regards the future and direction Jacinda Ardern and her team have set for the country "

      National/Collins certainly won't achieve anything for the country. The question is, can their scorched earth, destructive campaign succeed in its real goal: saving enough Nat MPs to force Ardern to cobble together a government she doesn't really want, instead of a clear win.

      We can say "impossible", but then that would be ignoring the lessons of Trump, Brexit, ScoMo, etc.

      They do this sh*t because it works.

      • Robert Guyton 21.2.1

        It won't work here. We can only speculate from this point in time but buying into a nervous, insecure story is a personal choice. Nothing is set in stone, all predictions are ephemeral stories. We seem to enjoy insecurity, but my encouragement is to choose confidence and surety. Whipped-up froth can be blown away by the breath of a person secure in their deep belief; there will always be constant erosion from agencies that thrive on insecurity and you know who clasps those to their bosom.

        • observer

          I like confidence, a lot. But … experience too. For example –

          Polls (so far) suggest that for the referendum on legalising cannabis, "No" is leading.

          That's based on a fear campaign, not reason and evidence. So I don't think we're really that different from other democracies, unfortunately.

          • Robert Guyton

            "No" might reflect the population's position and not surprisingly. It's a big stretch and people aren't inclined to go beyond their cultural boundaries. If you don't act with measured, considered confidence, you are agreeing to swirl and twirl with whatever currents are directed your way. What kind of player do you want to be – one at the beck and call of the "other side" or one that chooses a position, intelligently and clearly, then follows that line?

        • weka

          I agree. It's a time of great potential change and the stories we tell determine which way the change goes. Lots of opportunity here. Collins is going to troll the left with everything she's got, best the left find a better story than that reactionary one. What you call measured, considered confidence I might call grounding and knowing our own truth worth.

      • anker 21.2.2

        Agreed Observer

  22. Treetop 23

    The evening before Muller resigned as leader it crossed my mind that he could.

    I am 50/50 about him resigning from the National Party next week. Were Muller to do so I think he would be a good fit for NZ First.

  23. adam 24

    Why don't you just go fund the lincoln project then?

    They'd happily take your money.

    And past what, all having to be limited to arguing in the small small ideological world of liberalism. – Yeah I'd like to be past that too, but you and your ilk keep limiting the debate.

    [TheStandard: A moderator moved this comment to Open Mike as being off topic or irrelevant in the post it was made in. Be more careful in future.]

    [I have no patience for this shit. Don’t tell me what to do under my own post, and don’t make out I believe something I don’t. If you’re too stupid or caught up in your bah humbug that you can’t see I’m not supporting liberalism, then stay out of my posts.

    You do that sly, manipulative, poking at people shit in a conversation with me one more time and I will ban you, no matter where on site it happens. I opened a door to a conversation with you and you just spit in my face. I’m done.

    To make it *really* clear, this is entirely an issue of behaviour not politics. You are quite capable of making political arguments, so make them without flaming and then I will respect you again even if I disagree. – weka].

    • adam 24.1

      Well done for proving my point of limiting debate to what you decide what that is – a very small area of liberalism indeed.

      Unless your chanting trump bad, trump bad. Your a arsehole and a trump supporter. Downright depressing stuff as it is so fucking juvenile.

      No wonder the debate can’t move anywhere. You either have to shut up or nod like a right idiot.

  24. Muttonbird 25

    I think Australia has had 16 deaths since they’d ‘eliminated’ and cases surged. Very sad, but a clear indicator you toy with this Coronavirus at your peril.

    • Just Is 25.1

      380 new cases today, 0ver 10500 cases altogether.

      The US had 75000 new cases yesterday.

      But as Trump says, "it's only cos we do more testing than any other country"

      Solution, don't do any testing and the virus will disappear.

  25. Ad 26

    So 24 hours ago Judith Collins proposes a full-sized mnotorway from Whangarei to Tauranga, with tunnels and tolls.


    Today Labour responds with a minor upgrade of Auckland's northwestern motorway for buses, and a cycleway with little transport network use being built on a swamp that will be underwater in most spring tides – and next to impossible to build.

    Labour are already very electorally weak on transport, so Collins knows to go for Twyford very hard.

    Methinks Labour better have more fuel in the tank of their transport policy if they think they are going to outflank National on transport.

    • Incognito 26.1

      Even though you clearly don’t think much of it, you could at least have provided a link to the Government announcement by two Ministers of which only one is Labour: https://www.beehive.govt.nz/release/auckland-transport-infrastructure-revealed

      • Ad 26.1.1

        Yeah or you could just turn on the radio or TV news.

        Seriously if it deserved a blog post it would have got one. They were all well established projects, just re-released since the Auckland Council cut them. Both Greens and Labour need a better plan this.

        • Incognito

          It is good form to include a link so that others can read it too and follow up if they wish. People forget here all the time and we remind them here all the time. Without exceptions 😉

      • Muttonbird 26.1.2

        That shared path along the Whau River looks amazing.

        • Ad

          All projects do at dusk. It's an unlit pathway within 2 metres high mangroves barely above high tide. It's a sea level rise joke.

        • Incognito


          Ad doesn’t like it, apparently, but his dislike seems to be more for political than intrinsic reasons although only he could tell us frown

          • Muttonbird

            I thought the right wing were all about choice. It seems that doesn't apply to means of transport to and from work and play.

            Thou shalt drive!


          • weka

            apparently he doesn't think cycling is transport.

            • weka

              he does have a point about sea level rise though.

              A point you will get to see when someone releases his comments from the filter. Or he could just do what four moderators have asked and change his email address and then you would have seen his comments immediately.

              • Muttonbird

                Indeed, and they have just had to raise the NW motorway 5m for that reason. 2m of that was because the road had dropped either side of the Oakley Estuary Bridge.

                The new bit on the city side of that bridge is already sinking but that is probably due to Steven Joyce cutting corners.

                I imagine the Whau River path would be designed to an accepted profile of what is to come.

              • Incognito

                I released his two comments about 4 hours after they were submitted because I had been away and nobody else was around, it seems. Ad’s not stupid so I don’t know what his problem is.

                On a different note:

                Boardwalk Height

                Here’s our best attempt to describe the boardwalk height in plain English. We hope this will help with your submission.

                The standard height of the boardwalk is 2.9m above mean sea level (i.e. the Auckland Vertical Datum, AVD). The seabed on the western bank of the Whau River is slightly above this mean sea level and therefore the boardwalk deck would actually be about 2.8m above the seabed. This will vary as the seabed level changes along the route of the board walk. The boardwalk deck is approximately 1.38m above water level at mean high tide.


            • Incognito

              Ad is correct, cycling is not a mode of transport unless you live in the Netherlands.

              • weka

                how do you figure that?

                • Incognito

                  Oops, I forgot the /sarc

                  However, NZ doesn’t have cycling in its blood or genes like the Dutch, it is not part of the NZ culture and therefore not of the NZ infrastructure, sadly. Maybe with e-bikes and e-scooters it will change, slowly. In Amsterdam, you can easily beat a car or PT on a bicycle with no gears and leg-power only on a short-distance trip. When traffic is shite, the bicycle wins on medium-distance trips too. And it is free!

                  • weka

                    I think we are getting better but it seems a slog. We'll probably see a freeing up and things moving faster and easier if we get a L/G govt in Sept.

        • weka

          it is beautiful but the first thing I see is taking twice as long to get somewhere. Please tell me the curvy path is because of the landscape, access and engineering, not because someone wanted to make a curvy path?

          • Muttonbird

            Artist's impression, perhaps? Design-wise some departure from a straight line is more interesting and might in this case reflect the landscape.

            It is an interesting form/function question.

            • weka

              form following function and other form? I don't know the area so don't have a grasp of why they would build it like that. A curve is more interesting, unless you are walking to work and it takes you 20 mins instead of 15. Some people won't mind, others will.

          • joe90

            Probably following the tide line.

        • greywarshark

          I don't see a division down the middle of it so that foot and wheeled traffic can keep out of each others way.

        • Sabine

          is that cycle way fenced in?

    • Peter 26.2

      Is there a good reason there'd be a motorway with tunnels and tolls from Whangarei but not tolls at the Waterview tunnel and motorway?

  26. Incognito 27

    @ Puckish Rogue,

    If you want your commenting privilege back, you need to write a nice and compelling apology to Lprent. Let us know if you want/need the link to when/where things went pear-shaped.

    • Robert Guyton 27.1

      You're advertising for trolls now?

      How strange is that!!!

      • weka 27.1.1

        more like we're trolling the troll 😈

        I doubt that PR will take up the invitation, I suspect his professed love for the Joker is feigned.

      • Incognito 27.1.2

        We offer good money to trolls to avoid TS turning into an echo chamber as the shareholders don’t like that 😉 Troll lives matter too devil

  27. joe90 28

    John Lewis has died.

  28. Ad 29

    NZSteel goes into 'strategic review' from its Australian owner.


    The review will be released weeks from the election.

    First Tiwai Point aluminium, then Marsden Point refinery, now NZSteel. Nearly 10,000 jobs.

    This government appears to have no answers to the full decline of our remaining heavy industry, in the course of two months.

    Three regions, thousands of well paid jobs. Come on government, do something.

  29. ianmac 30

    Crikey. Times are tough in Australia. Back to where we were weeks ago.

    Acting on the advice of Australia’s acting Chief Medical Officer Paul Kelly, Morrison has written to the Speaker of the House of Representatives to request that the sitting fortnight commencing August 4 not be held.


  30. Muttonbird 32

    I'm liking all these Sooty Shearwaters lining up!

  31. Well there are many here discussing JC. (Not the biblical fellow.)

    I would like to discuss the difference between the two Leaders.

    Jacinda Ardern has proven herself here and overseas as caring and informed, and is much admired.

    JC was given a role that involved going overseas, and true to type she used that occasion to promote her husband's business and herself.

    For that and other mis-steps she was demoted by John Key. WOW!!

    She hopes we will forget that and trust her with our sick Kauri Covid and Recovery.

    Sorry Judith, you just haven't got it, and Tova should have said "You are not a 10..

    but you don't listen do you? !!’
    Today I have a hoarding on our section for Labour Jacinda and Claire in Rotorua. The stop sign has been shifted or we would have had one for Tamati as well. Go Labour!! I am biased.. Go the Greens as well!!

  32. anker 34

    On a lighter note, wonder if Labour have thought of changing their campaign slogan and billboards to

    Strong team, stable leadership

    tv add including the blue team jogging in teal, losing team members and pushing each other out of the way, cheating

  33. ScottGN 35

    UK and Aussie bookies have firmed up Ardern slightly since Collins took over…

  34. Eco Maori 36

    Kia Ora

    The Am Show.

    Everyone should have opportunity's to own a whare.

    That's correct the system has been screwed in favour of the people who have asset whena at the expense of the people who don't the renters next minute they tell you it's better to rent and quote the trickle down effects year right.

    One point I would like to make is there should not be a dividing things like baby boomers millennials race we are all on motherearth together and need to make great choices for our future.

    Ka kite Ano

  35. Eco Maori 37

    Kia Ora


    Wai Wai every were scientists predicted this but the deniers in the lead decided to ignore the advice.

    Ka kite Ano.

  36. Eco Maori 38

    Kia Ora

    Te Ao Maori Marama.

    That's is cool teaching tamariki there local Maori history.

    Ka kite Ano.

  37. Eco Maori 39

    Kia Ora


    People working from home will be good for the environment.

    I'm sure our government will come up with a fair system for our border quarantine system charging.

    Ka kite Ano

  38. Eco Maori 40

    Kia Ora


    I think it's a good idea to restrict people going to beaches with indangered creatures.

    Ka kite Ano.

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