Open mike 18/08/2021

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, August 18th, 2021 - 84 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

84 comments on “Open mike 18/08/2021 ”

  • Comments are now closed

  1. KJT 1
    18 August 2021 at 8:07 am

    Meanwhile. There are farmers who do "get it"

    Calm The Farm – Posts | Facebook

  2. KJT 2
    18 August 2021 at 8:20 am

    Big silence from those who wanted the "bubble" with Australia, or other countries, opened.

    None of them volunteering to pay the wages, rents or business costs of people losing out from the latest outbreak. Surprise!

    • pat 2.1
      18 August 2021 at 8:35 am

      People dont tend to behave well when under pressure

    • Enough is Enough 2.2
      18 August 2021 at 8:52 am

      The bubble with Australia was opened and operated as intended. As soon as COVID got back into the community in Australia the bubble closed, as planned – weeks ago.

      • Treetop 2.2.1
        18 August 2021 at 9:14 am

        I think the trans Tasman bubble was 1 – 2 weeks late in closing. Blaming is not going to help either.

        Finding the index case will give the source. The Delta strain was always a "not if but when" it was detected in the community.

    • Treetop 2.3
      18 August 2021 at 9:07 am

      Dealing with the Delta strain is now a reality and people will probably experience some form of loss. Griping about financial loss is not going to change the situation.

      I would not want to be the PM, the finance minister or the Covid minister.

    • Jester 2.4
      18 August 2021 at 9:07 am

      The bubble with Australia is fine and should be again once we are all vaccinated.

      • Treetop 2.4.1
        18 August 2021 at 2:50 pm

        Are you being serious?

        • Jester 2.4.1.1
          18 August 2021 at 3:45 pm

          Of course. We cant all hide under a rock and remain closed to the world forever. Once everyone that wants to be vaccinated is vaccinated, why should we remain closed. Yes people will still catch Covid but with the vaccination the symptoms are far less serious.

          • Treetop 2.4.1.1.1
            18 August 2021 at 4:20 pm

            The health system needs to be able to meet the demand for Covid related hospital admissions.

            Still early days for what the Pfizer vaccine can do and what the maximum vaccination rate will be.

            • Andre 2.4.1.1.1.1
              18 August 2021 at 4:34 pm

              Surely if the unvaccinated don't trust mainstream medicine enough to get vaccinated, they won't trust mainstream medicine to cure them when they get sick?

              So they'll just stay at home with their Joe Mercola Miracle Cures, vitamin D, ivermectin, and whatever else they see getting spruiked by some random on youtube, right?

              • Treetop …
                18 August 2021 at 5:56 pm

                In response to your question Andre @ 2.4.1.1.1.1

                I think most people gasping for breath will seek medical attention. When it comes to minor Covid symptoms the unvaccinated will not require a hospital bed so not an issue.

                I would like to think those who will not vaccinate will do the right thing and comply with safety measures.

            • Jester 2.4.1.1.1.2
              18 August 2021 at 5:22 pm

              Once we are all vaccinated, there should be far fewer hospitalisations as the symptoms are far less.

          • McFlock 2.4.1.1.2
            18 August 2021 at 4:32 pm

            We cant all hide under a rock and remain closed to the world forever.

            why not?

            • Andre 2.4.1.1.2.1
              18 August 2021 at 4:36 pm

              We could, in theory.

              It's just very unlikely to be politically palatable to a large vaccinated majority. Me included.

            • Jester 2.4.1.1.2.2
              18 August 2021 at 5:21 pm

              You can if you want, and live a long boring life. But I want live life, as far as I know, you only get one turn.

              • McFlock …
                18 August 2021 at 5:41 pm

                I also love my family.

                You can go travel the world all you want. But we ended 2020 as one of the few places on the planet with a lower than expected number of deaths based on previous years.

                So the question becomes "with our millions of tourists, the cruise ships, the backpackers, the working holidays, and so on: was the hidden cost of all that the lives of some of our loved ones?"

                Maybe a couple of weeks in quarantine should be the new normal.

                • Jester …
                  18 August 2021 at 5:45 pm

                  Then you will be pleased to know Covid seems to have a very low mortality rate (at the moment).
                  Lets hope Ebola never gets here.

                  • McFlock …
                    18 August 2021 at 5:55 pm

                    ISTR ebola had like a 3 day incubation. Much easier to control relative to something three or four times longer.

                    But the point is that we have an opportunity to think about how we can do better than before, rather than just blindly grasping for the old days of high-volume short-term immigration.

      • coreyjhumm 2.4.2
        18 August 2021 at 6:18 pm

        Not happening. It's incredibly ironic this happened five days after the govt announced it was going to be opening nz up to international travel more in 2022. This is a sign. Delta can transmit from room to another is open for half a second, international travel is dead for the time being.

        People's jobs and lives aren't worth yuppies thinking they are entitled to an international vacation. Sorry if people think nz is a backwater and they hate being stuck here but tough.

        If the virus keeps evolving it's pure insanity to think we can go back to international travel .

        We do need a find away to get needed workers in but that's added pressure let alone people wanting to go on a holiday here or overseas.

        Unfortunately yes this means some industries aren't going to survive… But if we have to risk constant lockdowns and people's lives and jobs and our health system to keep industries afloat then it's probably for the best… Not just for health but for the environment…

    • alwyn 2.5
      18 August 2021 at 5:33 pm

      I thought the original New Zealand promoter of the trans-Tasman bubble was our PM.

      "A travel bubble with Australia can be expected in the first quarter of 2021 "pending confirmation from the Australian Cabinet and no significant change in the circumstances in either country", she says."

      She very sensibly qualified it at the time of course.

      https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/432807/australia-travel-bubble-for-early-2021-agreed-in-principle-by-cabinet-ardern

      Was there someone else, from New Zealand, before her who had been talking about a bubble?

      • Drowsy M. Kram 2.5.1
        18 August 2021 at 6:21 pm

        Was there someone else, from New Zealand, before her [PM Ardern] who had been talking about a bubble?

        alwyn, your link is to a RNZ report on the 14 Dec 2020 post-cabinet press briefing.

        Fairly certain that the PM and other politicians (NAct MPs? Winston?) had been discussing trans-Tasman travel as a matter of urgency earlier in 2020 – couldn't say who was first.

        How Todd Muller took Simon Bridges by surprise [24 May 2020]
        ANALYSIS: New National leader Todd Muller wants to see the border with Australia opened as a matter of urgency, a plan hatched reopening and revving relations with China back up, and New Zealand harnessing its water to help decarbonise and electrify the economy.

        He also called Government to lay out a transparency strategy and timeline for trans-Tasman travel to reboot, describing it as “critically important”

        “I think New Zealanders will get increasingly impatient if it looks like we are being too pedestrian,” Muller told Stuff yesterday.

        Too pedestrian, eh? Nothing pedestrian about Maga Muller's brief turn as 'leader'.

        https://thestandard.org.nz/most-leaders-of-the-opposition-are-unemployed-they-just-dont-know-it-yet/

        https://thestandard.org.nz/responsible-politics-verses-gotcha-politics/

      • KJT 2.5.2
        18 August 2021 at 6:49 pm

        Have you been in a bubble all the last year?

        Missed all the screams of "open the borders" from Queenstown, the National party, David Seymour, fruit growers, farmers, Uncle Tom Cobbly, and all?

    • Anker 3.1
      18 August 2021 at 10:09 am
      • Wow thanks for posting Stephen D. That is staggering.
      • Descendant Of Smith 3.1.1
        18 August 2021 at 11:19 am

        Sounds a lot like a workplace I know – especially the marginalisation, the exertion of power of a long period of time and the treatment of others who are related to you who work there also.

        One day I'll write about it.

    • ianmac 3.2
      18 August 2021 at 11:24 am

      Yes Stephen. I was just about to link to that because Jane writes a compelling account of the reality of competitive swimming and the lengths that some officious officials go to gain power over kids.

      "Burn baby burn, and metronomically, they burned out." International New Zealand swimmer Jane Copland tells of the ridicule, pressures and mismanagement of young people's lives rampant within competitive sport in this country.

      • DB Brown 3.2.1
        18 August 2021 at 11:39 am

        Saw a kid knocked out on the field playing rugby on Sunday. All the adults just chatted away to each other like nothing had happened. Not a single one went – fuck that – and removed their child from the game.

  4. Sabine 4
    18 August 2021 at 10:27 am

    why?

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/126107338/covid19-aucklanders-heading-on-holiday-ahead-of-lockdown-angers-concerned-leaders

    But even as the announcement was being made, thousands of people were heading to Northland, equipped as if going on holiday, said Rueben Taipari,a leader of Tai Tokerau Border Control.

    ​“It’s ridiculous: Thousands of cars were coming north from Auckland … They’re bringing their fricken boats and caravans, and with their bikes on top of their racks.

    ……………..

    Taipari is “very, very angry” at the arrogant attitude of those not taking the Delta variant seriously and leaving Auckland, when the rules for level 4 lockdown are clearly to stay at home.

    “This is not a holiday,” is his message to those people. “Northland is not a holiday camp; we live here, this is our home.”
    ……………………..
    Taipari was also disappointed at the lack of police or army presence, or anyone to ensure there was no unnecessary travel.

    “There’s no checkpoints on the borders of Auckland, no army presence, no police presence, it’s just us [Tai Tokerau Border Control].

    “Seriously, are we the frontline for Delta? Are you kidding me?”

    Boozeshops did well too yesterday. Delta has arrived, Party on Dude.

    • coreyjhumm 4.1
      18 August 2021 at 6:21 pm

      Fine every last one of them $50 k or throw them in jail. Check the speed cameras, cctv , number plates and addresses.

      Bloody hell. Absolute wankers. This happens every time throw a couple in prison.

  5. Stephen D 5
    18 August 2021 at 10:34 am

    Regarding the Taliban takeover of Afghanistan. Some time ago I read an interview with an Afghani villager. Too long ago so no link.

    He was asked about where his loyalty lay, country or elsewhere. His reply was along the lines of “I have been an Afghani for 70 years, I have been a Muslim for 700 years, I have been a Pashtun for 7000 years. Where do you think my loyalty lies.”

    Outside of the cities, life will eventually return to normal. The Pashtun clans have weathered greater storms than the Taliban.

    • Treetop 5.1
      18 August 2021 at 10:44 am

      The Afghani villager is a wise man.

    • Gabby 5.2
      18 August 2021 at 12:00 pm

      He's bloody old isn't he.

    • Brigid 5.3
      18 August 2021 at 12:15 pm

      "I would sit in staff meetings where we would talk about, OK, this month we sent 14 armored Humvees down to Helmand Province for the Border Patrol. And 12 of those 14 Humvees along the way went missing — or, quote unquote, broke down — and were disabled. And that was a regular thing."

      "I had a Marine Corps major that was part of the Command section that would come in and he’d say, “Hey, we were supposed to cycle through 300 police recruits this month. This says only 150 got through. It’s supposed to be 300.” I’m like, OK, well, it wasn’t 300, it was 150. “Well, can you massage this report so that it says 300?” Basically, can you lie on this report so that it says 300. So just the whole flow of information was not in any way remotely transparent, and it was set up so that really the only people that knew anything for certain were the contractors — the Command staff couldn’t leverage from them accurate information."

      "As far as the US military presence there — I just viewed it as a big money funneling operation."

      https://mtracey.substack.com/p/a-big-money-funneling-operation-afghanistan

      • Stephen D 5.3.1
        18 August 2021 at 1:18 pm

        Eisenhower said it first:

        "In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist."

  7. Jimmy 7
    18 August 2021 at 1:11 pm

    Bloody Aussies. Our outbreak came from them according to genome! It's like the underarm all over again.

  8. Herodotus 8
    18 August 2021 at 1:26 pm

    Ffs waste water testing has started – should this not be on going so as to have some advanced warning.
    Why after 18 months do we react and not be proactive and have measures in place ??

    have we been asleep given the number of lucky escapes to date.

  10. gsays 10
    18 August 2021 at 2:18 pm

    In a past life, I worked in a petrol pump factory.

    There was a real concern over static electricity. It can damage the electronic boards inside the pumps and obviously be a concern on forecourts with fuel vapour.

    Recently I have noticed the Covid QR sheets appearing on fuel pumps on forecourts.

    What gives? Fuel companies turning a blind eye to public safety, while trying to be compliant when the customer pays at the pump?

    The CCTV footage of forecourt fires is mighty impressive.

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=T6VKxmUPb3g

    It is the return to the inside of the car that 'charges' the driver and touching the pump handle earths her and allows the spark to occur.

    • Andre 10.1
      18 August 2021 at 2:27 pm

      You mind explaining how a QR code on a pump could possibly be a contributing factor to something like this happening?

      Ideally, the explanation would include considering the voltages and likelihood of sparking from a phone, compared to the voltages and likelihood of sparking built up on cars just driving around in very low humidity, and even the voltages and likelihood of sparking just with friction on clothing and materials in low humidity.

      • gsays 10.1.1
        18 August 2021 at 3:39 pm

        Not using a cell phone on a forecourt has been a thing for a long time.

        To do with the possibility of a spark I assume.

        My comment wasn't to poo-poo QR, I am fairly highly compliant in that respect.

        The observation that now that pay at the pump is a thing, the 'rules' can be bent. The vapour cloud from pumping petrol is surprising, although the Vapour Recovery pumps are becoming more common place.

        • Andre 10.1.1.1
          18 August 2021 at 3:57 pm

          It's been a longstanding pure urban myth that cellphones could cause an explosion at a petrol station. Cellphones just don't cause sparks, and even if they did, they don't get used in close proximity to anywhere that vapour concentrations are high enough to be ignitable. Which is really just very close around the filler.

          The only thing dangerous about a cellphone at a petrol station is if you're paying attention to the phone instead of pulling the filler nozzle out when you're done, or walking in front of other moving vehicles on the forecourt.

          https://z.co.nz/about-z/what-matters/safety-and-wellbeing/safety-first/mobile-phone-use-faqs/

          Static electricity on the other hand actually is responsible for a few petrol station fires, in very low humidity environments. Much lower humidity than I've ever experienced in NZ (maybe central Otago at its coldest might get there). But that very small risk is easily eliminated, by being sure to touch a metal part of the car well away from the filler immediately before touching the filler.

          https://www.api.org/oil-and-natural-gas/consumer-information/consumer-resources/staying-safe-pump

    • weka 10.2
      18 August 2021 at 2:56 pm

      Impressive that she stopped to pull the pump handle out and then tried to put it out. Not Sure if I would have done that or not.

      Why does touching the handle earth her given the hose is rubber not metal? Why does earthing cause a spark?

      • Andre 10.2.1
        18 August 2021 at 3:07 pm

        She could have charged herself and the car in opposite senses by sliding across the seat as she got out. Then reaching for the metal handle earthed to the car allows the spark to jump to equalise again.

        My first winter in a cold part of the US I spent a lot of time testing metal things for electric faults before I realised it was just static building up. It really takes very little movement for a significant jolt to build up.

        As for static starting fires at pumps (and not phones):

        https://auto.howstuffworks.com/car-driving-safety/accidents-hazardous-conditions/using-cell-phone-at-gas-pump-make-it-explode.htm

      • gsays 10.2.2
        18 August 2021 at 4:34 pm

        You are right about her courage. I shudder to think what I would do. Amateur pyros don't like unplanned combustion.

        When I first learnt about this, at the safety part of the indoctrination (there is a better word), I recall that it happened to women more often than men. Something about being more likely to go back into the vehicle.

        And what Andre said about the spark.

      • Andre 10.2.3
        18 August 2021 at 4:52 pm

        BTW, the recommended way to deal with it is to just click the handle to stop the automatic pumping, then back off leaving the filler nozzle in the car.

        If you pull it out, then there will be spillage from the pump nozzle that will spray burning fuel around, and there will be some burning fuel-air mixture going down into the car filler pipe into the space vacated by the filler nozzle getting pulled out.

        But if you just stop the pumping and leave everything else undisturbed, the burning fuel-air right at the nozzle will quickly burn out. Because it's not getting replenished by fuel vapours getting pushed out of the tank, because there's no more fuel going in.

        • weka 10.2.3.1
          18 August 2021 at 8:07 pm

          that all makes sense. I wonder if I'd remember to do that in the heat of the moment.

  12. joe90 12
    18 August 2021 at 4:45 pm

    Either the donkeys are running the shop…or the homeless dude in MIQ.

    Hospital staff waiting in line to be tested for Covid-19 have reportedly been told by Auckland District Health Board management to return to work.

    A contact of a nurse who tested positive for the highly contagious virus says her hospital
    colleagues- who have been waiting hours in line to get tested – were being told to return to work.

    Messages sent among hospital staff, seen by the Herald, show management has requested some staff to return to work.

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-coronavirus-delta-outbreak-hospital-staff-waiting-for-test-told-to-return-to-work/7CLHPNC3WIXIG73UUD7WP2BODQ/?

    • Treetop 12.1
      18 August 2021 at 8:05 pm

      The testing appears to have problems for the staff, it is not like the hospital can be shut down like a school.

      ADHB appear to have some gaps in their staff management Covid plan.