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Open mike 18/10/2020

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, October 18th, 2020 - 66 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

66 comments on “Open mike 18/10/2020 ”

  1. Stuart Munro 1

    I admire the courage, wisdom and leadership, as well as the calm, compassion and respect for others, she has shown in these challenging times. ~ The Dalai Lama

    Now comes the hard part – alloying the base metals of NZ's poorly governed peoples into something brighter and stronger.

    But she may have an easier task than National – tasked to rebuild with a tired crew of deadwood who survived on the list, while what little youth and talent they had fell away.

  2. Ad 2

    I barely have a voice this morning.

  3. WeTheBleeple 3

    My faith in NZ'ers is restored somewhat. They actually were paying attention. – General election.

    My faith in campaigning and the power of grassroots has been restored – Chloe Swarbrick.

    Now, will the PM who preaches teamwork discard her previous partners? I'd like to think no.

    When will we know?

    • Sacha 3.1

      Now, will the PM who preaches teamwork discard her previous partners

      She is not the only one who gets a say in that. Are there still some FPP mindsets amongst those who do?

  4. ScottGN 4

    Got everything I wanted last night.

    Labour majority.

    Greens winning AKL Central, which if they work hard could become a real stronghold and they’ll never have to worry about the bloody threshold again. And defying the MMP curse of small parties in government and growing their vote.

    Māori Party back and perhaps another seat on the list, I’d like to see Debbie Ngarewa-Packer in the parliament.

    And National really, really trounced. That hasn’t happened enough in my lifetime.

  5. ScottGN 5

    Gerry doing a mea culpa on NatRad right now for his dumbarse Covid conspiracy comments. My morning is just getting better and better.

  6. Anker 6
    • Yes feels great this morning. Best possible outcome ever!

    Did anyone else watching one get sick of Niki Kayes poor me, the boys are hurting stance? Ok a tough night for her, but it was all about how hard it was fort them. Her commentary was all “when you get a broad swing like this” as if it was some random event. Gerry was working so hard and everyone else in Nats so much talent. Woe is me! They just can’t take a lot of personal responsibility can they. She ran the coup that ended up being part of the train wreck…….

    but maybe a poor choice of guest by TVNZ………Liam Hehir a Tory, had some worthy commentary.

    iswitched to three a couple of times, but it looked a bit nasty over there with Pagani (who someone on the Standard reprted)she thought labour would end up with 43%

    • Wensleydale 6.1

      I can't watch anything involving Josie Pagani. She's a professional Job's comforter and annoys the crap out of me.

  7. bwaghorn 7

    Well done excellent result

    Right you fuckers you got no excuses now . You've had 3 years, nzf is gone, get to work .

  8. NZJester 8

    Was that jacket David Seymour had on when he arrived via boat a life jacket or just a wet weather jacket?

    If it was not an inflatable life jacket then he should be called out for lack of boat safety.

  9. Gabby 9

    Is there a job Kelv can do? Minister of Racing? Minister of Defence But Don't Touch A Bloody Thing?

  10. weka 10

    my faith in the MSM restored. I hope their ratings trash the opposition's.

  11. mikesh 11

    In this election I split my vote, giving my electorate vote to Jessica Hammond (TOP), and my party vote to the Green Party. It was gratifying to see Jessica finish 3rd behind Labour and National, as in 2017, with 3800 odd votes (2017 – 2800 odd) a 33% increase. I suspect, though I haven't yet looked at other electorates, that TOP may have maintained its support in the electorates but lost party vote support. Probably many TOP supporters, like me, would have given their party vote to other parties on the assumption that TOP would not score 5% anyway.

  12. Phillip ure 12

    I think I have come up with an appropriate soundtrack for the visuals of the inevitable slow-mo media parade of the losers…it is the chorus from the recently released (and an instant stone-cold classic..b.t.w…) from local artist Reb Fountain..it's called 'don't you know who I am..?'..and I would submit it strikes just the right note of plaintive incredulity ..

  13. Anne 14

    Dr. Bloomfield is fronting a special announcement at 1 pm – 10 mins away.

    • Ed 14.1

      From Ashley’s briefing.

      1 community case. Port worker.

      Wednesday 14th – working in New Plymouth, stayed in motel. Ship he worked on is en route to Napier.
      Returned home to Auckland.
      Thursday 15th – at home in Auckland.

      A reminder there is no room for complacency.

  14. SPC 16

    As for ASB and Kaikoura Fish and Chip Shop naming rights to Eden Park.

    1. A fisherman is home from the sea with food for newsmedia.

    2. You can read the results of the election in fish and chip wrapping paper before the test starts.

    (some people know how to do this)

    3. The plan is to hunt the deer in the electorate headlights for the cull swing comes for them

    4. In the north where the young mother is PM bares her breasts within Fin’ish fashion, whereas in the south another seeks to return to her place as head of her party down under in a place where the Maori word for fish and head have something to do with a grandmothers jaw bone and leaving someone behind to take care of the older women so they are safe.

    5. Sometimes different colours involve different accents, but only here are we free, old and young, of COVID.

    And so in the end, it came down to how many stars/tries were awarded, to determine the winner in the day. The end.

    PS The journalist knows it is all about narrative and being the one who prevails as heroic resilient character of the story by its end.

  15. swordfish 17

    .

    A few Questions for you avant-garde Auckland Types with your fancy Post-modern Hairdos (if you'd be so kind as to reply at your earliest convenience)

    I'm thinking of looking at the geography of the Vote (incl the swing). Amongst other things, I want to break Auckland down into its constituent regions … (1) Central/City …… (2) East …… (3) West …… (4) South …… (5) North Shore.

    Q1: Where the hell does Panmure-Otahuhu go ? I've tentatively stuck it under Central/City … but seems a liitle bit East & a little bit South as well.

    Q2: Upper HarbourNorth Shore or West ? … (have it under NS at moment)

    Q3: Whangaparaoa .. include in NS ? … otherwise would need to go under Upper NI Provincial

    Q4: Papakura = presumably South ? (given overwhelming majority of voters in this seat are located in southern extreme of Urban Auckland). But clearly larger rural component than other Auckland seats.

    Throw this parochial old Wellingtonian a friggin bone for Chrissakes ! Or I’ll have the Rozzers onto ya.

    • Ed 17.1

      Looking forward to your fascinating and enlightening breakdown of the data.

    • Muttonbird 17.2

      Panmure-Otahuhu is mine. We used to be Maungakiekie before the boundary change. If demographics are the most important criteria I’d say the following.

      Panmure-Otahuhu = South Auckland.
      Partly geographically, but almost wholly demographically. The bit that is East is Panmure and Glen Innes. They are slowly being gentrified but still loads of state housing there.

      Upper Harbour = North Shore
      Load of new housing there, particularly in the area which crosses into West Auckland. It capture Massey but this is a small part.

      Whangaparaoa = North Shore
      It’s a well developed suburb and an extension of the Northern suburbs rather than an independent regional entity.

      Papakura = East Auckland
      It is mostly wealthy rural Clevedon which is where Collins gets her support from.

      • swordfish 17.2.1

        Cheers, M … appreciate the help.

      • roblogic 17.2.2

        Hmm Papakura is geographically way south. Collins also gets support from the flash new developments at Karaka and thereabouts. But the old town centre is still very South Auckland and not benefiting from the new money

        • Muttonbird 17.2.2.1

          Might have had a case for that before the last boundary change but the Papakura electorate is now rural despite the 'old town centre'. The 'old town centre' will have less and less significance in the future with a lot of new developments slated for the areas south and west of Papakura itself.

    • Molly 17.3

      Hi swordfish,

      Hate to disagree with any other Standardista this morning, while still celebrating, but was brought up in Maungarei (Mt Wellington) and consider it to be central Auckland rather than South, although Otahuhu would be considered South, Panmure definitely not. Maungakiekie is One Tree Hill, and more Penrose/Green Lane.

      Papakura is also another place I've called home, and it is definitely South. However, as Muttonbird says, there is a lot of money in certain parts of Papakura, and that money does not like hearing it said that they live in South Auckland.

      South Auckland apparently is a state of mind. Primarily, where the brown and poor are located, despite geographic location. Which is why you are bizarrely told that Panmure is south, while Papakura, located further south – is not. (The geographical spread of Papakura does go east, but the population spread is predominantly south.)

      • Muttonbird 17.3.1

        I think I explained this, Molly. I weighted the descriptions demographically rather than geographically. For the purposes of the intent of electorate capture, Panmure and most of Glen Innes are definitely South Auckland.

        You may have been brought up under Maungarei but I live here right now. I know who my neighbours are.

        Here's Papakura in 2020. One thing it is not is South Auckland!

        Though I am happy to re-advise Swordfish Papakura should probably go into his ‘Upper NI Provincial’ category. In fact it would be a better fit than East Auckland.

        Re-enforcing that, this map excludes Papakura entirely from Auckland Metro.

        • Molly 17.3.1.1

          If you go further south than Papakura, as you have it – then you are in Waikato.

          The majority of the population of Papakura are South Aucklanders. The majority of the people who would refer to themselves as East, are probably living east, but are still in the minority when it comes to population.

          As for the living here now, comment…

          Great, but all sports codes and school competitions etc were with other central/East Auckland schools and groups. The differentiation you speak of existing presently, is due to snobbery and gentrification. The estuary divided Panmure/central from Pakuranga/East. But Mt Wellington was never considered South. Otahuhu was, but just because it was located after Mt Wellington highway joined the Southern Motorway. Your concept ignores history, and is based on feels.

          (PS. Glad you found out you live in Maungarei, and not Maungakiekie. Will make finding your way around easier. )

          WTF does demographically mean in this context?

          • Muttonbird 17.3.1.1.1

            Rubbish. The new Papakura boundaries capture a huge rural area as you can see. Swordfish will no doubt be able to tell us from booth breakdowns where Collins got her support from – I'm picking most of it was from Clevedon/Whitford way. As shown above at least one graphic does not even include Papakura as part of Auckland.

            Frankly, I don't think you have much of an idea what Auckland looks like now and appear completely lost on the new electorate boundaries. I explained this also but perhaps you didn't bother reading it; in 2017 we lived in Maungakiekie electorate, in 2020 we live in Panmure-Otahuhu electorate, same house…in Mt Wellington/Maungarei.

            A note for you; while both Mt Wellington/Maungarei and One Tree Hill/Maungakiekie describe suburbs of Auckland, only one is also the name of an electorate.

            • Molly 17.3.1.1.1.1

              " The new Papakura boundaries capture a huge rural area as you can see. "

              Which follows much of the previous Papakura District Council and Manukau District boundaries. Both were considered south Auckland authorities. Still doesn't mean that the majority of the population live there. I would say that most of them are located close to the Southern motorway. There is a cohort of people who quite rightly, although they are in the Papakura electorate would consider themselves East. Because they are east geographically. But the majority would be located in the southern part of the electorate.

              Swordfish, was asking whether we considered Panmure/Otahuhu south. I don't because I thought south was a location rather than a demographic. South always started at the crossroads of Mt Wellington highway and the southern motorway. Everything else was considered central. That remains true, despite boundary changes. Maungakiekie is definitely central, and so is Maungarei. Otahuhu on the other hand is the traditional beginning of South Auckland so there is a crossover of that electorate boundary. But looking at your map, I would still consider the bulk of it to be central.

              You however, referred to areas being "demographically" south, and that is something that I'm not going to touch with a bargepole as it that perspective that makes you believe that Papakura only only East because Judith Collins and Whitford.

              BTW, South Aucklanders are very used to being left out of Auckland maps. The Wikipedia entry is not alone in ignoring vast swathes and populations of Auckland.

              • Muttonbird

                Following your logic Otahuhu, Papatoetoe, and Otara are central Auckland.

                News to me and I expect news to people who live there.

                • Molly

                  Following your logic Otahuhu, Papatoetoe, and Otara are central Auckland.

                  No. Your reading comprehension is failing:

                  "South always started at the crossroads of Mt Wellington highway and the southern motorway. Everything else was considered central. "

                  I said the electorate boundary seems to encompass both, but that Panmure/Mt Wellington was central – not south.

                  BTW, still don’t understand what you mean by “demographically” South Auckland as opposed to geographically. Care to elaborate?

                  (Maungakiekie and Maungarei are also primarily the names of two of Auckland’s volcanic cones. Both in central Auckland.)

                  • Muttonbird

                    Nope, it's you who can't read.

                    Swordfish wanted to know where to place the new electorate Panmure-Otahuhu for his research: Central, East, or South Auckland. I rightly said South Auckland.

                    You didn't give an answer and went on to confuse electorates and suburbs.

                    frown

                    • Molly

                      “You didn’t give an answer and went on to confuse electorates and suburbs.”
                      Yes, fair enough… But you were giving these electorates designations that already exist within Auckland, and I disagreed with you in the way you definitively made those choices.

                      The Panmure/Otahuhu electorate crosses the boundaries of Central and South Auckland. Designating it only South Auckland is a choice. But the same choice can be made for designating it only central. Why can't we just say the distinction is arbitrary?

                      Calling Papakura only east is a problem. Because although it involves people who would consider themselves South Aucklanders there are others that would recoil in horror at that designation. Both groups are right, there are some in the Papakura electorate that live in East Auckland, but I would say the majority live South.

                      In actual fact, I agree with DTB (on the other thread) that the distinction is probably pointless. The diversity of lived experiences of those within both electorates are most likely immense. What data or information is going to be found by the grouping?

                    • Muttonbird

                      Ok. The reason I'm certain Panmure-Otahuhu should be placed in South Auckland for the purposes of Swordfish's research is the suburbs which incorporate this new electorate are Papatoetoe, Otara, Otahuhu, industrial Westfield, largely industrial Mt Wellington, Panmure, and Pt England.

                      The demographic of these suburbs are about the same, low income worker families, beneficiaries, and state house residents.

                      I looked at the Electoral Commission website to find out what factors a boundary review takes into account. I wanted to show that household income is a factor where possible. It doesn't say that explicitly but the Representation Commission does consider factors such as communities of interest.

                      I actually found the Electoral Commission's info on this pretty useless because to me it's obvious electorate boundaries are drawn where possible to contain similar socio-economic peoples.

                      This makes sense because their elected representative is likely to be able to satisfy the interests of most people within an electorate rather than having to juggle competing interests.

                      This is not always possible while also satisfying their main objective which appears to be ensuring all electorates contain the same number of people, about 65,000. That I guess is why anomalies occur such as having to put some low income families in Papakura in the same electorate as horse breeding Karaka and lifestyle block owning Clevedon.

  16. Pat 18

    Excellent interview with former central banker this morning on RNZ…was cut off this morning by Judith Collins stand up…the link isnt cut short.

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/sunday/audio/2018768894/punk-economist-the-most-prudent-thing-to-do-now-is-spend

    and I hope all Labour MPs are listening to what he has to say

  17. joe90 19

    Dude's a fuckwit.

    And it names Wanganui National Party member Tony Stuart as the man behind the Keeping Stock political blog.

    When contacted by the Chronicle yesterday, Mr Stuart confirmed it was true. Keeping Stock is a right-wing blog and Mr Stuart is also frequently on Twitter under the same name.

    He was named in the New Zealand Herald's list of tweeters to follow throughout the election.

    However since then, Mr Stuart has deactivated his @Inventory2 Twitter account.

    Keeping Stock's tagline is "an eclectic mix of some of the finer things in life – politics, sport, music, humour and God", and Mr Stuart has been writing the blog for seven years, as a hobby.

    He said he was considering its future in the wake of the Dirty Politics furore. Until Hager's book, the name behind the blog had been anonymous, which Mr Stuart said was for personal reasons.

    There was no suggestion of any wrongdoing on Keeping Stock's behalf and Mr Stuart said he didn't engage with politicians to get information for his blog.

    Keeping Stock's brief mention in Dirty Politics comes on page 50 after Cameron Slater posted the name and contact details of public servant Simon Pleasants on his Whale Oil blog. Mr Stuart wrote two comments under that post which read "Superb work Cam!" and "I wonder if Mr Pleasants will get a less-than-pleasant invitation to have a wee chat with his boss sometime this morning … "

    The Whale Oil blog accused Mr Pleasants of working on behalf of the Labour Party while a public servant.

    Mr Stuart said he would look at the future of the blog in the coming weeks.

    https://web.archive.org/web/20140820194640/https://www.nzherald.co.nz/wanganui-chronicle/news/article.cfm?c_id=1503426&objectid=11312020

  18. swordfish 20

    .
    So … Wellington

    Wellington (Greater)

    Lab …. Green …. L+G ……….. Nat …. ACT …. N+A …. NZF

    52.6% ……. 15.7% …… 68.3% ………… 18.9% ….. 5.6% …… 24.5% …… 2.1%

    Constituent Regions

    City

    48.5% ……. 22.6% …….71.1% …………17.2% ……5.1% …….22.3% ….. 1.7%

    Hutt

    56.4% …….. 8.1% ……. 64.5% ………….21.3% …. 6.1% …… 27.4% …… 2.7%

    Porirua

    57.8% …….. 9.6% …….. 67.4% ……….. 19.3% ….. 5.9% …… 25.2% ….. 2.3%

    • swordfish 20.1

      Auckland

      Lab …. Green …. L+G ……… Nat …. ACT…. N+A …. NZF

      48.8% ……. 7.6% ……. 56.4% ………. 29.7% …. 7.6% ……37.3% …… 2.1%

      .

      Constituent Regions

      Central/City

      49.5% …… 14.0% ……. 63.5% …….. 23.7% ….. 6.7% …… 30.4% …… 2.0%

      East

      39.3% …….. 6.2% ……. 45.5% ……… 39.4% …. 10.0% ….. 49.4% …… 1.7%

      West

      56.9% …….. 8.8% …….. 65.7% …….. 21.6% …… 5.6% …… 27.2% ….. 2.5%

      South

      60.3% …….. 3.7% …….. 64.0% …….. 24.0% …… 4.8% …… 28.8% ….. 2.8%.

      North Shore

      42.9% ……… 6.3% ……. 49.2% …….. 34.8% …… 9.2% …… 44.0% …… 1.9%

  19. AUSTRINGER 21

    Shipley,of all their leaders changes, got their worst ever ballot box. John Key,was asked once, what politician inspired you to dare be Prime Minister, he replied Jenny Shipley.

  20. sumsuch 23

    Why are there only 40 odd comments here? There's no spirit on the left for these people. I didn't even see spirit on the part of Matamata Jacinda. The BBC has tagged her even. 'Be kind' but leave the neediest behind.

    The Left should speak up. Not only is it true but it's the thing you cu-rmudgeons treasure most, politic.

    • Incognito 23.1

      314 comments today, this one not included.

      • sumsuch 23.1.1

        Did you do a communications degree?

        • Incognito 23.1.1.1

          I went to school and learned counting at a young age.

          • sumsuch 23.1.1.1.1

            Why do you defend them — the 'art of the possible' from '84 over the rationality of the necessary? When the former will sink us in 8 years. It's just our present comfort. 90 % of the West agrees with you.

            Letters columns. It pays you and your missus.

            20 years on you'll be doing Cormac McCarthy's 'The Road'. and I will have had a reasonably long life of the utmost comfort.

            • Incognito 23.1.1.1.1.1

              angry What are going on about now?? You’re starting to sound like a troll-bot.

              • sumsuch

                I've just mentioned your and Bowalley's overactive oversight, it killing the Left in preference for a not particularly Left party. Martyn doesn't moderate at all these days.

                Lprent maybe wouldn't have got "The Road' reference, You're another CV kid like Jacinda and Grant. So you'll go far, except there is no far anymore — see 'The Road ' reference.

                The Left is dead about this victory. Nil excitement.

                • Incognito

                  You seem a confused person who’s conflating quite a number of things and people.

                  All TS Authors and Moderators act as volunteers on this site and spend their free time to their best ability on making it work as well as possible. The whole platform is free to anyone to comment as long as they stick to the simple and lenient rules set out in the site’s Policy.

                  If you have an issue with Moderation, take it up with Lprent or leave TS for TDB.

                  Lastly, before you start criticising people whom you don’t know from a bar of soap you may want to give some pause to your assumptions as they could easily morph into assertions and/or personal attacks that you cannot back up nor defend.

                  • sumsuch

                    You just seem shallow and ignorant to me, befitting some younger crawler. Just my impression. Maybe you're an old cove who doesn't know anything. Seen plenty of'm.

                    I'm certain there's something technical in the above para that can get me kicked off so as to maintain your pure, and rapidly diminishing, 'Left'. The endless but slightly worthwhile footnotery TS is known for.

                    • Incognito

                      A number of years ago I came across The Standard for information. I decided to hang around because it was and is such a rewarding place for those who’d like to learn and educate themselves. I’m still learning much here, almost every day.

                      Moderation is a bit like pest control, i.e. to weed out comments and commenters who make it harder for others to thrive here. This has nothing to do with one’s political leanings but everything with one’s behaviour here. The Standard has no policy to maintain or even advocate for some kind of ideological ‘purity’; it is a pathetic straw man used by those who have no argument or are too lazy to think and put some effort into a constructive criticism.

                      Sniders such as you contribute very little to the commentary here. Depending how (ob)noxious the weed is, it will be dealt with accordingly.

                      It is not my habit to divulge personal information here but for you I’ll make an exception. I chose this book for my reading list of English Literature when I was at secondary school: Hurry on Down by John Wain. It was a prescient choice I can say now in hindsight.

                    • sumsuch

                      But why no reply for that Incognito?

                      I respond to sincerity.

                      Para1: very ,much so.

                      Para2: doesn't wash with me. Your blog has a reputation for over the top command directives. For the 1984 establishment in my personal experience. 'Pest control'. I have zero affect on others, they all ignore me.

                      Para 3: 'sniders'! I love it for the word. And you carry on threatening me, proving my point.

                      You're a bit of a sniffling wonder. There's this thing called social democracy in which I grew up in and for which all the best of my (younger) generation is presenting their chins to reality now.

                      Reason and demo-cracy are the vital reality. All the endless details here are third-ary and more.

                      Don't fight me, I'm (NZ) Scots, we can't be beat and anyway we come entirely self-defeating.

                      As it is, at the moment, you come across as Labour’s future Jamie Lee Ross.

                      [One thing I’ve learned here is that there’s no point arguing with the obnoxious. I’m too soft and tend to give self-digging gravediggers the benefit of doubt and without exception, they start digging harder and deeper. Human stupidity continues to amaze me.

                      Ad paragraph 2:
                      This is not my blog. I’ve already explained I’m merely a volunteer here. Unlike other blogs, this site has clear, simple and lenient rules to encourage robust debate and unlike other sites, this site is serious about that.

                      I have no idea what “the 1984 establishment” has to do with this site or its founders and trustees but if it fits in your view of the world then so be it.

                      You have very little ‘effect’ on others here because you contribute next to nothing here. The upshot is that you won’t be missed 😉

                      Ad paragraph 3:
                      A snider is an obnoxious commenter who makes snide remarks. Like most obnoxious weeds here, you conflate a warning with a threat.

                      I’m not fighting you and nobody is trying to beat you. Moderation is all about making sure that we have robust debate here and that nobody feels excluded because of obnoxious sniders, for example. I tried to give you a warning, several in fact, and the benefit of doubt. You opted to ignore it.

                      You keep calling me names – a “future Jamie Lee Ross”?? – and keep on barking up so many wrong trees that your carbon offset must be larger than that of a medium-size coal-powered electricity generator. You should have read this site’s policy and/or read today’s topical Post A bit about how The Standard works. If you had done either, you would have known that attacking Moderators is a sure fire way of getting banned.

                      Ad paragraph 4:
                      You missed your opportunity to discuss relevant literature. I shared personal information with in good faith and you completely ignored it. That hurts!!

                      Because I’ve already banned a notorious gravedigger tonight, I’ll reserve judgement on you – Incognito]

                    • Incognito []

                      See my Moderation note @ 9:54 PM.

            • PaddyOT 23.1.1.1.1.2

              Tell us your trick sumsuch as to how you'd be avoiding McCarthy's apocalypse? Do you have a special bunker?

              • sumsuch

                Paddy, my major tactic is to have been born 20 years earlier than these terrible present twits.

                I'm too comfort-loving idle to adapt. So, violence. A rightful sentence.

                • PaddyOT

                  How old do you think the present are?

                  Wha is your present political sway and why the violence?

                  What do you think should happen in our political scene ?

                  • sumsuch

                    McCarthy's 'The Road' describes a desperate situation very soon after the most sophisticated of societies. Climate change by the models and the facts always ahead of the forecasts will bring that round in my lifetime. So a violent death by starvation or assault by the other desperate.

                    And in our political scene, more roaring by the Left to match Trump's idiocy for the rich. Except Jacinda raising her voice would be notable. Makes me cry our present hopeless complacence prior to the end of everything.

                    The present twits are Jace and Grant at about 40. Honed to a fine point by Clarkian watchful caution. And many other useful careerists.

  21. Congratulations to the Maori Party.

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