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Open mike 18/02/2011

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, February 18th, 2011 - 72 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

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72 comments on “Open mike 18/02/2011 ”

  1. logie97 1

    Can anyone explain why we are getting saturation advertising of the Rugby World Cup?
    The message must surely have got through to Hokitika now that the there is an event in New Zealand this year. As for those buying tickets, (those that can afford them) they will definitely know what’s happening.

    So why this constant bombarding of our senses through TV promotion?

    • Bored 1.1

      They need to double check if there is anybody left in NZ who might have enough cash or savings to go to a game.

      • Colonial Viper 1.1.1

        Or ticket sales have not been as good as they have been making out, and they are on track to miss their budget targets.

      • Lanthanide 1.1.2

        No, it’s about buying into additional revenue streams, such as merchandising, as well as supporting “official sponsors” of RWC by buying their brands over the competitors.

  2. The Voice of Reason 2

    National to change employment law retrospectively to stop workers getting what two courts say they are owed?


    This has been an issue since at least the nineties. IHC has been challenged on their policy of pretending that being in charge of their clients overnight isn’t really work for two decades now. They were always going to lose when it finally made it to court, and now that the bleeding obvious has been confirmed in the appeal court, the Nats want to steal the money owed from poorly paid, yet dedicated workers who do a job few of us would like to do.

    Gutless, gutless, gutless. If Key can change the law to stop Kiwi workers getting what they are owed, why can’t change the law to stop BMW getting what they aren’t really owed at all?

    • It would be a constitutional outrage as well. There is a constitutional convention that Parliament does not legislate to change the result of a particular case. It can amend the law for all future events but should not take away a litigant’s gains achieved in Court.

      Ryall is also perhaps deliberately confusing the issue. Mentioning Teachers is a smokescreen, they are on a salary so their staying at a camp does not result in their being able to claim further wages.

      • D14 2.1.1

        Can some who knows do a check on the costs quoted
        How many workers are eligible?

        • Rob

          I believe there are 5000 claims waiting to go from the SFWU if they went ahead and filed them, and I think that’s just Idea Services and maybe one other subsidiary of IHC.

          I think if the quoted costs were significantly incorrect the SFWU would have said something by now.

      • ianmac 2.1.2

        Yes teachers are on a Salary so get no extra for being on camp except that there is a small away-from-home allowance as part of the Award.

        • logie97

          problem with that one is that the funding for camping comes out of the operational grant – (it is not salaried) and therefore principals put pressure on staff not to take it…

          Captcha : workers – God this is uncanny

    • Rob 2.2

      More to the point, if the Government can find $1.6 billion to bail out investors in South Canterbury Finance, why can’t they find $500 million to pay workers what they are legally entitled to?

      • Deadly_NZ 2.2.1

        Because as you rightly point out they are WORKERS. and this government has NO interest in making their lives easier. The bail out was to their rich mates. So in their minds it’s no brainer. Workers or rich mates ? Workers or rich mates? Rich mates or workers? rich mates yep fuck the wokers.

      • Lanthanide 2.2.2

        Because the 1.6B bailout entailed the government taking control of all of the Hubbard’s assets. The intention is for an orderly sell-down, with the expectation that they will recoup about 1.2B of the initial cost, and perhaps more, as assets are sold.

        So fundamentally different from giving money directly to workers.

        • Rob

          My comparison was to highlight that Governments can find money if they have to, or want to, nothing more.

          And to be clear, IHC need to take just as much (if not more) blame for this pickle. Unfortunately IHC is a classic example of what happens when a non-profit organisation becomes too dependent on Government contracts for its income.

          Finally, and perhaps most importantly, it is not a case of “giving money” to workers. This is not a gift, or a hand-out. These people “work” and “earn money” and it has been proven (three times over now) that they have been incorrectly paid for the work they have done.

          IHC can’t pay, and they are 90% funded by Ministry of Health contracts. Options? Well, I guess we could let IHC go bust, chuck 5000+ people out of a job and get Kingseat and Lake Alice out of mothballs and lock away those that are intellectually disabled. Or the Government could step up, show some leadership and work with all parties to find a solution (and I’m not suggesting there is an easy one). Throwing out kites about changing legislation is not being constructive, in my opinion.

          • Rob

            Two postscripts:

            1. NZH running a poll on whether disability workers should be paid the minimum wage for overnight shifts. So far 70/30 in favour.

            2. Ironically this week is IHC’s annual appeal week.

    • Chris73 2.3

      “This has been an issue since at least the nineties. IHC has been challenged on their policy of pretending that being in charge of their clients overnight isn’t really work for two decades now.”

      Sooo what did the previous govt do about it or was it put in the too hard basket?

      On a serious note I agree in principle but I don’t see how the back pay can be paid as its a boat load of money, maybe not pay the back pay but pay the minimum wage from here on in?

      • Rob 2.3.1

        Chris, completely agree that a previous Government could have solved this issue if it was deemed important enough to do so. Both major parties have let these workers down.

        However, it’s been in the legal system since 2008 with the first ruling from the Employment Relations Authority coming out a few months before the last election. Since then, despite the increasing likelihood of a liability arising, IHC and indirectly their funder (the Govt) have done nothing to manage that liability except keep it in the courts for as long as possible in a (pretty forlorn) gamble that the problem would somehow go away.

        They have contributed to the size of the problem through such tactics. If you were running a business and had the potential for a future and significant liability, you would do something about it (other than crossing your fingers and praying). IHC and the Govt didn’t – it’s called chickens coming home to roost.

  3. g_man 3

    And, of course, no Labour leader would be dishonest. They wouldn’t dream of doing things like, oooh, submitting a painting for charity that was supposedly their own work (but really wasn’t); claiming that you don’t notice when the car you are driving in exceeds the speed limit by up to 70 km per hour (and subsequently abandoning the police officers who got done); allow a retouched photo to be used and then claim it hasn’t been altered; etcetera etcetera …

    [lprent: moving this thread to OpenMike as being largely irrelevant to the post it was in. Feels like a diversion troll ]

    • Colonial Viper 3.1

      I’m hoping that National try and win this election campaign by using their worn out bull shit Opposition attacks on Helen Clark all over again. Talk about being out of bullets guys.

      😀 😀 😀

    • Marty G 3.2

      so, you’re admitting Key is a liar but justifying supporting him with a ‘they did it too’ logic. nice.

    • stever 3.3

      Well, you might say, then, that Clark paid the price for all this.

      Surely, then, you must agree that Key should do so too.

    • lprent 3.4

      Interesting approach. So you are saying that John Key can directly lie with impunity? About millions of dollars of taxpayers funds?

      Why? Because DPF puffed up ‘offenses’ by Helen that were just bullshit.

      I bet that with your sense of perspective you think that your 3 inch tool is 18 inches… You are hardly credible.

      In any case if I see you or others start to do diversion trolling on this post I will start binning and banning. You can talk about other topics on OpenMike

      • Chris73 3.4.1

        I’m flattered you’re thinking about my tool but I have to tell you I’m married and straight so I don’t swing that way

    • kriswgtn 3.5

      duh-like ten years ago
      get you some therapy and move on

    • marsman 3.6

      John Key in a limo exceeding the speed limit because he wanted a shower. Never mentioned again by the MSM,why is that?

      • Mac1 3.6.1

        Who was it who had cars parked in no parking zones so he could get a hair-cut? Double Dipper from Dipton?

        And was Pansy wrong?

        And what did Worth do?

        etc etc etc

    • ak 3.7

      Many thanks g-man: future tonsori for the International Yeswecan! CathCan Assembly of Christophilaliacs will be grateful for your offering to their research into the possible canonisation of Helen Clark. “Even years later, the worst that could be said about her by her fiercest critics was that she signed a painting for charity and sat in the back of a speeding car (of course the 2011 Visitation and subsequent miracles overwhelmed even these last paltry criticisms).”

  4. Pascal's bookie 4


    I actually like it, in the sense that — you got kids? Kids always act up the most before they go to sleep. And when I see the Tea Party and all this stuff, it actually feels like racism’s almost over. Because this is the last — this is the act up before the sleep. They’re going crazy. They’re insane. You want to get rid of them — and the next thing you know, they’re fucking knocked out. And that’s what’s going on in the country right now.


    • ak 4.1

      — you got kids? Kids always act up the most before they go to sleep. And when I see the Tea Party and all this stuff, it actually feels like racism’s almost over

      Right on, Chris Rock. Strikes me that Orewa One was our own wee tea party – the last hurrah for the redneck rump now about to finally euthanised via F&S II by the state-house son of a solo mum of Jewish descent and a gay.

      Them good-ole bad-ole times most certainly is a-changing boys and girls: overheard in a woolshed recently:

      What do the Prime Mincer and Tony Veitch have in common?

      They both like Brokeback Mountain.

  5. big bruv 5

    “So you are saying that John Key can directly lie with impunity? About millions of dollars of taxpayers funds?”

    Worked perfectly well for Clark and Cullen for nine years.

    Oh…I forgot, different standards for Labour and the Nat’s, Labour can lie, cheat, steal and pillage and nobody from the left will say a word.

    [lprent: moved to OpenMike – as per comment it referred to.]

    • stever 5.1

      As I approximately said elsewhere, Clark and Cullen paid the price in the end—so why shouldn’t Key do so now?

    • Draco T Bastard 5.2

      Strange, I can’t remember Clark or Cullen being proved to be lying about the taxpayer monies that they spent.

  6. Pascal's bookie 6

    Right wing toes enter the water:


    • ianmac 6.1

      The questions might be OK. Its the answers if implemented might be a problem!

    • Rosy 6.2

      Is that the new right-wing party? It reads like they’re after the NZ First vote.

    • Mac1 6.3

      Sir Douglas re-enters politics?

    • NickS 6.4

      Government monopoly on health? Haven’t these twits ever heard of Southern Cross, let alone noticed the private hospitals?

      And I love how they completely ignore Te Treati O Waitangi when it comes to sea bed and foreshore issues, instead claiming it’s a “property issue” for the courts, rather than one of the unresolved issues stemming from The Crown ignoring their treaty obligations.

      • Colonial Viper 6.4.1

        Private specialists, GPs in private practice, private surgical hospitals. Yeah, they have no idea – or are selling themselves to people with no idea.

        • Lanthanide

          “Yeah, they have no idea – or are selling themselves to people with no idea.”

          I would expect both.

  7. M 7

    NYSE and Gerrman bourse to merge:


    Mike Ruppert reckons it will give the world another six months before we smack down hard.

    • Colonial Viper 7.1

      Massive global consolidations and mergers like this increase systemic risk, not reduce it. None of these players have learnt from “too big to fail” and reading that press article

      as exchanges around the world look for ways to reduce transaction costs and increase exposure to the more lucrative derviatives, options and futures markets.

      They actually want to wade neck deep into the high risk derivatives game.

      This ponzi capitalism is sheer fraking lunacy.

      (NB all the big players know that the public stock markets are all deteriorating in quality and quantity, the wealthy have started to deal behind closed doors only, locking everyone else out)

      • Draco T Bastard 7.1.1

        This ponzi capitalism is sheer fraking lunacy.

        Yep, a hell of a lot of what goes on in the stock exchanges should have been made illegal after the GFC. Instead, the banks are getting ready to make the situation even worse by increasing the amount of such damaging trades and the governments are doing nothing to stop them.

  8. kriswgtn 8


    Sir Roger Douglas leaving politics

    Should never have come back

  9. M 9

    Acerbic turn on banks and political parties:


    • ianmac 9.1

      It is a sort of sleight of hand. While we watch the politicians the real power is out of sight. The Wine Box Enquiry?

  10. Herodotus 10

    Did anyone else out there feel sick at the TV 1 Close up love fest between the 2 Marks, H&S. So much fluff. Hotchins re the dividend being reinvested back into the coy. No Mark you paid off a inter related transaction. Reducing the claim that the receivers had by $15m.
    Where is Mike Hoskins when we need an inverview with a backbone, Mark S wimpered eg re the dividend being 3 months and Hotchins said closer to 6, and then the subject was passed over !!!
    Hotchins said he is broke- of course he is someone in his business does not support the legal profession as well as he has done in the past.
    the only thing missing in CU was that is was sponsored by ……..

  11. Janice 11

    JK has said that the sale of assets will go to New Zealand funds – not only mum and dad investors (who?), but to the super fund, ACC, etc. I thought that the super fund was solidly ring fenced so no politician would be able to say where and when it was to be invested. Am I mistaken?

  12. ianmac 13

    I was in Bahrain last year. The population is clustered in the north end of a small country. But 40+km to the south in the desert, are hundreds and hundreds, maybe thousands, of tents. I couldn’t explain who lived in them other than they may be the imported Indian/Pakistani workers’ homes. If so, Bahrain has much to answer for in Human Rights. (Bahrain to me as a tourist, was the least interesting country.)

    • joe90 13.1

      Reports that the Saudi’s are sending troops, tanks and APCs from Qatar to crack on down Shia protesters in Manama.

      • joe90 13.1.1

        The NY times Nicholas Kristof writes;

        As a reporter, you sometimes become numbed to sadness. But it is heartbreaking to be in modern, moderate Bahrain right now and watch as a critical American ally uses tanks, troops, guns and clubs to crush a peaceful democracy movement and then lie about it.

  13. NickS 14


    Or, we could look at extracting titanium instead from those same sands where titanium dioxide makes up the majority of the mass, and once refined is far, far more profitable than iron. Heck, you could even run some iron smelting on the side if you really, really wanted.

    • Jenny 14.1

      What the seabed and foreshore rahui, (confiscation) was all about.

      Big multinational investors didn’t want to be bugged with any pesky claims of traditional use or native title as occurred in Canada.

    • Deadly_NZ 14.2

      A New Zealand-based company, Trans Tasman Resources Ltd (TTR), and overseas rivals are looking at exploiting New Zealand ironsands, and TTR has suggested that a domestic steel mill could use local high-grade coking coal to refine the ironsands.
      And a lot of the coal is at Pike river.

      Dr Elder said Chinese companies had cheaper labour and capital and could do such projects faster, but New Zealand had an advantage in the availability of the water needed for such a refinery.

      And as usual where are the Jobs ??? and where does the profits go??

  14. joe90 15

    More on HBGary and their sinister intentions.

    But for a defense contractor with ties to the federal government, Hunton & Williams, DOD, NSA, and the CIA – whose enemies are labor unions, progressive organizations, journalists, and progressive bloggers, a persona apparently goes far beyond creating a mere sockpuppet.

    According to an embedded MS Word document found in one of the HB Gary emails, it involves creating an army of sockpuppets, with sophisticated “persona management” software that allows a small team of only a few people to appear to be many, while keeping the personas from accidentally cross-contaminating each other. Then, to top it off, the team can actually automate some functions so one persona can appear to be an entire Brooks Brothers riot online.

  15. ianmac 16

    At No Right Turn he makes an important point about different rules for rich v poor.
    “Back in September last year, South Canterbury Finance went under due to mismanagement. Its investors were bailed out, no questions asked, despite the fact that it was in violation of its government guarantee or that some of those investors had got in solely in the expectation of such a bailout. Total cost: $1.6 billion. ”

    This week, some of New Zealand’s lowest-paid workers won a case in the Court of Appeal upholding their right to be paid the minimum wage……… This looks set to cost the government a lot of money, as those workers indirectly work for them. If they want such overnight care services, they are going to have to pay more for them in future. And if they want those services to be available, they are going to have to stump up the cash for backpay for those affected …………….. The total cost looks set to be $560 million. The government’s response? Threaten a law change to rob these people of their wages and allow them to continue to be underpaid. ”
    Excellent stuff at No Right Turn. http://norightturn.blogspot.com/

  16. Jellytussle 17

    No wonder the herald can claim their readership is going up………they’ve just offered me 3 months worth of the listener and 6 daily heralds for $7 something a week!

  17. Deadly_NZ 18

    Did anyone see Phil Goff on 7 days tonight?? Nice to see he can laugh at him self, but was it a good move.??

    • Jilly Bee 18.1

      Sure did Deadly_NZ, I was hoping he would have got through the segment without saying yes! Was it a good move, I don’t really know, but jeepers, imagine if it was Smile & Wave, with those dead eyes.

  18. Neoleftie 19

    My two or three cents.
    Time for the left to get final organised and realise that the world is abig scary place driven by the innate desire to ‘have more’. Those we call the ‘have most of everything’ are simply more mobile, more connected and more clever that the rest – we call them the self appointed elites.
    I recon lenin had it right…time for the revolution.
    Roll on november and we’ll see if the collective of factions within labour have enough focused energy out in there collective power base to create the situation as predicted and make KJ unemployed.

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