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Open Mike 19/02/2018

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, February 19th, 2018 - 77 comments
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77 comments on “Open Mike 19/02/2018 ”

  1. eco maori 1

    Morning Rumble Rock radio you good people are giving me a sore face again Ka pai had a hard time getting this out the sandflys are at it again.
    Ka kite ano

    • eco maori 1.1

      The sandflys are swarming again today plus a good 12 escorts vip treatment for ECO MAORI.
      They know I have something they have not got that’s why they trow the public at me they are ____scared
      Ana to kai

  2. Ed 2

    Excellent article in the New Scientist ( hardly a rabid vegan magazine) explaining why people who eat meat should be fully informed about how the animals they have at are treated and killed. And why the meat industry doesn’t want meat eaters to be fully informed.
    Once people know the unvarnished truth, there would be a lot more vegetarians in New Zealand.
    Allow cameras into chicken and pork factories.
    And make the footage public and part of our education. Public information documentaries and advertising should occur.
    Then we’ll see a rapid decline in the consumption of factory farmed pigs and chicken.
    Or the industries will radically alter their practices.

    “We shouldn’t hide the gory details of how meat reaches our plate.

    People who eat meat tend not to think about the lives and deaths of the animals they consume. That is a natural psychological defence against some very unpleasant facts. But hiding from facts doesn’t change them.

    Consider the broiler chicken industry, which raises and slaughters 60 billion birds a year. They live for a few weeks, usually in crowded sheds, before being stunned and killed by having their throats slit. Unsurprisingly, there are multiple welfare issues associated with these methods.

    ….This isn’t something the meat industry wants you to think about – which is one reason for reporting the gory details. Another is to inform individual decisions. Eating meat is a choice we are all free to make, but like all ethically challenging ones, it is better taken when in full possession of the facts.”


    • JanM 2.1

      I do think it’s about time some serious legislation was enacted and enforced around the treatment of animals for consumption.
      Also I think we should be aware of where all our food is coming from, and that includes our fruit and vegetables

      • Sanctuary 2.1.1

        You know the old joke – 80% of consumers say they buuy free range eggs, yet free range eggs account for only 30% of sales.

        Personally, I have a minimum standard that the animal must be able to express it’s normal behaviour. So a pig heeds a place to wallow, ground to root, a fence to scratch on. Chickens require ground to peck, worms to extract from the earth to eat, and a place to wander about clucking gently. I choose not to buy pork and chicken from supermarkets, and eat my own lamb, beer, pork and chicken.

        But I am a privileged, rich westerner with the money to spare for hobby farming my own food on a lifestyle block.

        Most people already know how industrial pig and chicken farming works. They just prefer cheap pork and chicken when they are trying to stretch the budget for the family dinner than going without protein. they may – or may not – feel sorry for the animals. But the most important thing is cheap and tasty protein for them and their families.

        • james

          Ed does not care about the fact your animals may be well cared for and slaughtered in a humane way – he is ideologically against people eating meat.

          I have a lifestyle block also and home kill my animals – and yet Ed finds this ‘murder’

          I took the time to make detail and reasonable post on this matter a while back.

      • weka 2.1.2

        +1 Jan. All our food.

        And when people learn about how animals are treated in order for them to eat meat, I want them to make better choices around that when they are able to. That might be eating less meat, or it might be eating meat sourced from ethical farmers.

        • JanM

          That’s the issue, isn’t it – ‘when they are able to’. There are too many people living so far on the edge they see themselves as making a choice between animal welfare and their families. 🙁
          I don’t think much will change until strong legislation enacted and enforced is in place

          • Kay

            +1 JanM. Being poor and ethical can be difficult, but even the battery meats are a luxury item for many now so that’s more an indictment on our economic system. I do wonder if there’s been an increase of low-iron level conditions reported in recent years.

            I personally haven’t purchased pork or chicken for many years as I can’t justify the cost of free range. I compromise with barn laid eggs; free range if they’re cheaper on the day but it does mean rationing said egg use. But I will NEVER purchase battery eggs. I am guilty of eating whatever food someone offers me, however, so not entirely guilt-free, but doing my small protest. One has to really research the barn laid/free range though- some of them are a side line to big battery companies so obviously those can’t be supported.

            It’s beyond comprehension to me how our otherwise strict animal welfare laws- of course punishment is warrented for keeping a cat or dog confined in that situation- somehow doesn’t apply to livestock. Do they have a powerful Lobby at play?

            • JanM

              “Do they have a powerful Lobby at play?” I would say so, wouldn’t you?
              I’m quite lucky with eggs – I live in a semi-rural area where there are quite a few sellers from the gate. You can see the hens running around the paddock 🙂

  3. Ed 3

    Nicky Hager has some ‘explosive’ new information about the army in Afghanistan.

    • cleangreen 3.1

      yes Ed finally Nicky hargar said “the truth finally comes out about his allegations of the location and deaths.

      Stange that it is only after National has gone out of Government eh?

      Smells like a real political cover-up, by National MP’s Brownlee and co alight as usual..

      • One Anonymous Bloke 3.1.1


        The PM said: “That’s something I hope over time to engage with Defence over that issue. We said that was an opportunity we’d take up when in office.”

        “Hope”? “We said”?

        The former Government under then-prime minister Bill English decided against an inquiry after watching some of the footage from the raid, known as Operation Burnham.

        Labour, NZ First and the Green Party all called for an inquiry at the time.

        …but now it’s “I hope over time to ask Defence to tell me some lies”.

        Looks like whoever is passing info to Hager is determined not to let this go; it’s a shame this government will have to be forced into an inquiry rather than undertaking one of their own volition; we’ll be lucky if they hold one, that is, as opposed to a Rebstock predetermined farce.

        • Brigid

          It is Nicky Hager himself who is ‘determined not to let this go’.
          Give credit where it’s due.


          • One Anonymous Bloke

            Yes Brigid, Hager is also to be commended. He isn’t risking as much as the whistleblowers he and Jon Stevenson (who is also to be commended, credit where it’s due, Brigid) rely on to write the story in the first place, though.

            • Brigid

              “Hit and Run co-author Nicky Hager, who has been probing the defence force using the Official Information Act (OIA), says this is an important crack in the NZDF denials.”
              What whistle blowers.
              Read TDB article and get yourself some information ffs.


              • greywarshark

                Are you calling OAB an idiot. FFS please try to keep argument on a polite level even when acrimonious.

                • One Anonymous Bloke

                  Well she has a point: this new info was garnered by Hager acting alone. He wouldn’t even have known to ask without Stevenson and the whistleblowers, but hey.

        • mac1

          One Anonymous Bloke,

          What does ‘hope’ mean?

          “a feeling of expectation and desire for a particular thing to happen.”
          synonyms: aspiration, desire, wish, expectation, ambition, aim, plan, dream, daydream, pipe dream; More

          “want something to happen or be the case.”
          synonyms: expect, anticipate, look for, wait for, be hopeful of, pin one’s hopes on, want; More

          What would you say to this?
          “I desire in time….
          “I plan in time….
          “I aim in time…..
          “I have the expectation in time…..
          “I anticipate in time…..
          “I want in time……

          Prime Minister Ardern said all that, and more, in one phrase “I hope in time….”!

          I don’t believe that a reasonable person with the power to do something does not understand that the idea of hope includes acknowledgment of actions that need doing and resolve to do them.

          • One Anonymous Bloke

            Is it really that hard to announce that the government is planning to hold the inquiry that all its members called for in opposition?

            • mac1

              “We said that was an opportunity we’d take up when in office.”

              That’s pretty clear to me. Note the “we’d”. It is short for ‘we would”. Would indicates intention of an action, that it would take place. It’s not ‘might’. It’s not ‘could’.
              There’s no ‘perhaps’ or ‘possibly’.

              Note the context of the full sentence. There is no attempt to change the intention. There is a statement of an intention made in the past and there’s no indication of any change in that thinking. A reasonable person would be expected to signify a change to thinking if that were the case. The expectation of that sentence in its context means it still stands.

              There’s nothing like “We said that was an opportunity we’d take up when in office. We intend to review our stance now when we are in in office.”

              If there was any attempt to weasel out of this commitment, OAB, I’d be alongside you in opposition to that.

              I just don’t see that your reading of those words is justified by anything but deep cynicism. Again, I share your cynicism considering the weasel words that previous government used, the imprecision of language, the deliberate obfuscation.

              Time will tell if Ardern is telling lies. I don’t believe she is. Her words however are clear. Her intention is clear.

              • One Anonymous Bloke

                I agree I’m cynical about it. I hope you’re right.

                • mac1

                  And the action we can take for our combined hope is to remind and encourage and argue for a proper investigation, since hope needs actions to fulfil it! 🙂

        • The Chairman

          “Labour, NZ First and the Green Party all called for an inquiry at the time.

          …but now it’s ‘I hope over time to ask Defence to tell me some lies’.”

          Seems we have another area where Labour looks set to disappoint.

          • One Anonymous Bloke

            I take it all back. You’re agreeing with me so I must be wrong.

            • The Chairman

              Actually, this is an occasion you got it right. Their stance is softening, as shown in the narrative you highlighted.

              If they were genuine about holding an inquiry, they’d be informing Defence of their intention and stating it to the press.

              Merely engaging (hopefully at some stage) with Defence is no guarantee an inquiry will result from that engagement.

        • AB

          “Rebstock predetermined farce”
          Nice – ‘an RPF’ should enter the lexicon.

  4. One Anonymous Bloke 4

    That inquiry into Operation Burnham (which we haven’t heard much about since the election) looks a bit more likely.

    the Defence Force knew a child had been killed during a 2010 raid in Afghanistan.

    The government needs to do the right thing here, before the UN does it for them.

  5. eco maori 5

    Good morning Breakfast people I cannot have to much input this morning the sandflys through a actor on the farm this morning to slow me down.
    I have to drop off the mokos at school and go mowing lawns all the best to you good people.
    Ka kite ano

  6. savenz 7

    More money being thrown away by Fonterra in China, in their failed global strategy.

    Chinese seem to do well in NZ, the same is not true for NZ Businesses in China. Very different culture, very different corruption levels and very different returns by the look of it between Chinese businesses coming to NZ and NZ businesses going to China.

    How many Kiwis are immigrating to China, Vietnam or god know where? And how many Chinese are coming to New Zealand? Again a huge discrepancy.

    The China government wraps up it’s laws tightly and controls everything. In those circumstances it clearly is not a like for like arraignment in these free trade deals, that somehow do very well for China and leave NZ farmers worse and worse off, and funny enough bankrupt so can be bought cheaply by China and overseas multinationals. Go figure.

    You can’t blame China if our government and Fonterra don’t seem to mind and seems to be begging for more of the same with more trade deals that don’t seem to be trade deals but contracts to a race to the bottom.

    Globalism has become a race to the bottom. It is John n Bill’s low wage economy dream in action.

    And now taken up by Jacinda for the next generation of overseas controlling stakes by some crusty out of touch exporters who haven’t noticed the world changed from the 20th century!


    • greywarshark 7.1

      Another blow to NZ’s pride in the fineness of the country, its attractions etc. Everything is to be used, utilised till the base line profitability goes, and then the citizens can recycle the husk.

      It’s feared a proposed conservation order to protect Golden Bay’s world-renowned freshwater springs won’t come quickly enough to stop local farmers taking more water from the aquifer that feeds it. The springs contain close to optically-pure water, second only to that found under the Weddell Sea in Antarctica, and are a major tourist attraction, with more than 100-thousand visitors a year.
      However needs for water in the district are competing with conservation. Kathryn talks Andrew Yuill – who applied for the Water Conservation Order, along with local Maori and Tim King, deputy mayor of the Tasman District Council and chair of its Environment and Planning Committee.

      Te Waikoropupū Springs: Places to go in Nelson/Tasman – DoC
      Early European settlers arrived in the Golden Bay area in the 1830s, mainly to build ships and mine for gold, coal and lime. Originally the area around Te Waikoropupū Springs was covered in lowland forest. Gold miners cleared the forest to build water races for sluicing alluvial gold and a mining company worked the area.

      We are stopped now by regs from swarming over our rubbish tips for useful stuff as we once could do, it was dirty and a bit dangerous. Now we take things to recycling and it looks less obvious that we are living on leftovers and whimsical charity from the wealthy.

      If we want to save Nz – ‘Now is the time for all good men to come to the aid of the party’. And the word men is included in ‘women’. And more, being environmental isn’t enough, one has to care about the other human beings living around and support each other in a respectful way, but particularly concentrate those who are investing their own lives and time into supporting the ‘good and respectful community’.

  7. Cinny 8

    A cyclone is coming, would everyone please check there are no leaves etc covering the drains in the gutter on their street. Thanks, it does make a big difference in preventing flooding, least it does in our street.

    Top tip for bored kids after school on a wet summers day… send them down to the park with a skimmer board, it’s so much fun 😀

    • alwyn 8.1

      Just don’t let them get anywhere near a flooded drain.
      Your suggestion about leaves over drains in the street is a great one though.
      I think I shall be out shortly looking at the ones in our street.

    • Rosie 8.2

      Cinny, sadly where we live there are no leaves, there are no trees.

      The developer of the suburb we live in cut down all the trees (over 100). What we have instead is clogged drains due to silt run off from erosion. This sediment has washed through a recovering creek area and destroyed community plantings.

      For my part I will be documenting this, submitting it to our council who will yet again turn a blind eye to the developer’s actions.

      I find it kind of amusing, our councils concerns about people’s gutters and drains when they fail to address one of the city’s biggest contributors to avoidable storm water run off.

      • veutoviper 8.2.1

        Rosie, great to see you back!

        I have wondered how you were getting on- it has been a long time. In fact, I just checked and your last comment was 31 Aug 2016.

        So sad to hear what has happened to your suburb after your struggles including the battle to get your own home. But I recall your determination and work in the Ohariu electorate, so suspect the Council is in for a battle! Go girl! EDIT – that should be ‘woman’ but does not sound as good.

        • Rosie

          Hi veutoviper 🙂 Always the investigator, you 🙂

          To reminisce, it was a fine day that Peter Dunne stood down here in Ohariu. You will be aware that Labour won the seat. In fact, I have a meeting with Greg O Connor next week to discuss our run down town centre. It feels so different and so good that those Dunne years are finally over, for us locally, but in the broader picture too.

          Yes, finally got our first home, but sadly I have been in a battle with both the council and the developer for almost five years now. There has been large scale environmental destruction under the HASHA Act, (and we lost our entire Ruru population!) which I think, but am not sure, has now been removed by the new govt. I must look into that.

        • greywarshark

          Ohariu! It would make a good chant with the last syllable on an upward tone.
          The change of MP must be a good point in your calendar, you did so much work to achieve it but it couldn’t happen till the stars came right.

          You are Wellington City Council. All the best about the trees. What do ruru like to live in? I am thinking of starting a club called the Huia Club for people who are trying to stem the tide of destruction from the freemarket and the money-obssessed who are willing to cut, slash and burn everything we hold dear and we can’t stop them, can’t enter their mindset. The battlers could do with some group that could swop stories of rejection and dejection, and note successes, and jokes, and interesting films and people. Like-minded people who respect each other and the search for the holy grail of respect for our life without the necessity of expensive frippery and style and luxury.
          What do you think – I’m just churning it around. Not a bad idea? Or is it covered by some group already?

          • Rosie

            greywarshark. I can’t tell you how thrilled I was.

            I stood back from being actively engaged the last election, apart from having a hoarding up on my fence. The campaign team and all the volunteers were wonderful. It was best to leave it to the pro’s.

            It was a really tight fight here and I think the TOP candidate was a bit of a spanner in the works but we got there in the end. I think you’re right – it needed the right alignment of stars for it to happen 🙂

          • greywarshark

            Hello Rosie me again. I added a bit onto my 12.39 comment and was typing it while you were answering it. So when and if you have time perhaps you could read the full thing and tell me what vibes it gives you.

      • greywarshark 8.2.2

        Rosie, I’m wondering what is your local Council?

    • mac1 8.3

      “please check there are no leaves etc covering the drains in the gutter on their street.”

      The radio is now advising in the news to do just that!

      Our proactive Council this morning had the road sweeper onto the gutters.

  8. veutoviper 9

    Just a little titbit which may be of interest to some here (although they may well already know), this morning on RNZ National ‘Nine to Noon’ Mike Smith said that he believed that Marama Davidson’s father was an actor, but he did not know who he was.

    This sparked my interest, and thanks to Wikipedia, I discovered that her father is Rawiri Paratene (aka Peter David Broughton), NZ stage and screen actor whose credits include roles in many well-known NZ films and TV series. In the 2013 New Year Honours he was made an Officer of the New Zealand Order of Merit for services to film, television and theatre. He also has many other Awards detailed in the Wikipedia entry. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rawiri_Paratene

    Of Ngapuhi descent, he was the first Māori graduate of the New Zealand Drama School. As a young student in the 1970s, Paratene was a member of Ngā Tamatoa, an activist organisation which fought for Māori rights, land, language and culture. He continues to aspire to have more Māori stories on film.

    He has also worked overseas, primarily with the London Globe Theatre, including on their.two-year world tour of Hamlet, visiting 205 countries. He was the only non-British based actor in the cast.

    He also stood for the Green Party in the 2008 General Election in the Maungakiekie electorate.

    From Wikipedia:
    Footrot Flats: The Dog’s Tale (1986) – Rangi
    What Becomes of the Broken Hearted? (1999) – Mulla Rota
    Whale Rider (2002) – Koro
    The Legend of Johnny Lingo (2003) – Malio Chief
    The Insatiable Moon (2010) – Arthur

    Play School
    Joe and Koro
    Xena: Warrior Princess – Tazere (Season 6, Episode 5: Legacy)
    Shortland Street – Joe Hudson

    2013 Officer of the New Zealand Order of Merit in the 2013 New Year Honours for services to film, television and theatre[7]
    2011 Aotearoa Film & Television Award for Best Actor in a Feature Film – The Insatiable Moon (Arthur)
    1996 NZ Film & Television Award for Best Actor – Dead Cert (Hare)
    1983 Winner of the Robert Burns Fellowship
    1980 Winner Mobil Radio Award for ‘Proper Channels’ Radio Play (Production)
    1980 Winner Mobil Radio Award for ‘Proper Channels’ Radio Play (Writing)
    1976 Winner of the Māori Writers’ Award

    I found that fascinating so thought I would share it.

    • greywarshark 9.1

      Thanks vv
      Yes Rawiri Paratene has been around long and done much. A good family, NZ-oriented from birth and lineage for Marama to be born into. I would like to see Julie-Anne step down and just manage her MP role and her baby which is enough travail for any ordinary person and let Marama bring her community and welfare skills in as she has the background and I think the ability to do much good.
      (Note: I think Jacinda is extraordinary and will manage her roles well, but will be very busy and time-conscious to do so in these early days.)

      Marama Davidson –
      “She started her degree in Hamilton and finished it in Auckland, from where she graduated with a Bachelor of Arts….
      Davidson worked for the Human Rights Commission from 2003 to 2012.[6] She has worked part-time for Breastfeeding New Zealand.[7] She was a ‘Think Tank Member’ for the Owen Glenn Inquiry on Child Abuse and Domestic Violence.[8] She is a founding member of Te Wharepora Hou Māori Women’s Collective.[6]”

      Marama’s portfolios:
      Auckland Issues
      Building and Housing
      Disability Issues
      Ethnic Affairs
      Māori Development
      Pacific Peoples
      Social Housing (including HCNZ)
      Sport and Recreation

      ” She is a blogger, and writes about social justice, Māori politics, women’s rights and more.”
      Tweets – Marama Davidson MP @MaramaDavidson

      Julie Anne Genter is an American who holds dual citizenship USA/NZ and came here about 2006. She has an interest and experience in transport matters whish is a weighty subject. However it would be good to see some NZ born, long-time citizens getting into top positions here.

    • Rosie 9.2

      Yes, it is interesting isn’t it? I heard that on 7 Days, when Marama Davidson was the guest for the Yes Minister section.

  9. ianmac 10

    Mitchell is yes!

    • veutoviper 10.1

      So I see – and there seems to be some speculation that Joyce is also considering throwing in his hat.

      • McFlock 10.1.1

        He might well be dumb enough to toss his dildo into the ring…

      • greywarshark 10.1.2

        Mark Mitchell announces he will contest National Party leadership to replace Bill English
        19 Feb, 2018 1:33pm

        Mitchell, a former police dog handler, said National was built on very strong foundations and had 80 years of history of delivering….
        He said what set him apart was his leadership ability and a strong track record building a team….
        Mitchell was a member of the police armed offenders squad and went on to become a top international hostage negotiator, and established a security consultancy in the Middle East….
        He has been in Parliament since 2011 and was Minister of Defence prior to the change of Government last year. He will be the least politically experienced of the four contenders.

        He said he wanted to hold the “shambolic Government” to account…
        He said he was disappointed when Labour leader Jacinda Ardern had said it was her generation’s turn….
        “But Winston is on notice. If I am leader – he’s in Government, we’re in Opposition. We are going to hold him to account.”
        He pointed to the difference of opinion over the waka jumping bill as a sign the Government was already starting to fight internally….
        Mitchell also signalled Steven Joyce would be kept on as finance spokesman, saying he was doing an amazing job….
        Mitchell has hired Clark Hennessy – a former staffer – to help with his campaign. Hennessy was one of those NZ First leader Winston Peters had included in legal action over the leak of his super overpayments.

        “National’s values – strong families, personal responsibility, fiscal responsibility, looking after our vulnerable and our environment – are my values. They guide my decisions and are the foundation of the policies I’d campaign for as leader….
        He said Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern’s vision “lacked any substance”.
        “She has no clear plan for this country and her government is making it up as it goes along. This simply isn’t good enough.”

        (His visions sound like the Labour Coalition visions as I understand them. Perhaps there is a Visions Book that the Parties could all choose from, and mix and match to get a unique mixture, and we the people could have a look and a lottery run to choose the mix that the winning Party would choose, and the winner would share by halves with a fund set up to help those who were in need to a leasehold house or houses in a needy area.) The dream and reality would meet.

    • Johnr 10.2

      I would have thought his history as a security contractor (mercenary) in the middle East would make him a bit toxic as a leader in the debating chamber

      • Ed 10.2.1

        Isn’t a security contractor just a euphemism for a mercenary?

        If that is what he was , that’ll sound good in the future.

        “Our PM used to be a mercenary.
        He killed people for money.”

        I thought we had sunk low enough.

        And wasn’t Mitchell in the Dirty Politics book?
        In a bad way?

        • greywarshark

          If he was a contractor does that mean that he arranged other people to do the grunt work and threfore kept his hands cklean?

      • greywarshark 10.2.2

        Our debating chamber is not much chop anyway, perhaps they should have him as an honorary Ozzie in theirs.

  10. Stuart Munro 11

    Interesting gun control development – hope it works.


  11. greywarshark 12

    Radionz today Monday – q. why must robots have human faces. Is this a way to deflect our natural antipathy to the Other?

    1:36 pm today
    Join the robots
    From Jesse Mulligan, 1–4pm, 1:36 pm today
    Listen duration 6′ :46″
    Seemingly every week there’s a prediction our jobs will be lost when the robots rise.
    Artificial Intelligence is already here but it’s expected to get better, more superior and more autonomous – but that doesn’t mean humans won’t be needed alongside the technology.
    In fact, an Australian researcher is arguing we need to stop worrying about the robots and instead work with them.

    (Yeah sleep with the enemy.)

  12. xanthe 13

    more about the cover-up disclosed in Hager book “hit and run”

    • Ed 13.1

      Wonder what the security consultant thinks of that?

    • Anne 13.2

      Yes, I’ve read Hit and Run and am very interested in this story.

      Haven’t picked up any MSM news item as yet, but wonder if it is because the Lab. led govt. announced recently there is going to be an ‘Independent Inquiry’ into the matter?
      At least that’s my recollection. Someone will correct me if I’m wrong.

  13. Ankerrawshark 14

    Breaking news…labour now polling at 48%. Yah

    Not sure which poll this is

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