Open mike 19/08/2016

134 comments on “Open mike 19/08/2016 ”

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1. Tautoko Mangō Mata 1

   19 August 2016 at 7:35 am

   The US Justice Department will phase out use of privately owned prisons, citing safety concerns.
   Contracts with 13 private prisons will be reviewed and and allowed to expire over the next five years.
   “They do not save substantially on costs and … they do not maintain the same level of safety and security,” Deputy Attorney General Sally Yates said explaining the decision.
   The majority of US prisoners are held in state-run prisons.
   On Wall Street, the stocks of private prison companies declined sharply after the news was announced.
   By Thursday afternoon, Corrections Corp stock had plunged by nearly 50%.
   An Inspector General’s report released this month found that private prisons saw higher rates of violent incidents and rule infractions in comparison with government-run institutions.

   http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-37124183
   • The Chairman 1.1

     19 August 2016 at 8:46 am

     In November 2009, an expanded panel of 9 judges of the Israeli Supreme Court ruled (in an eight to one decision) that privately run prisons are unconstitutional.
   • whispering kate 1.2

     19 August 2016 at 8:50 am

     As usual NZ is playing catch up with other nations who have tried and failed with turning state agencies into private ones. We obviously are too arrogant and think we can do it when others have failed. Ideology is failing us in every direction in this country from education to health and corrections.
   • Ad 1.3

     19 August 2016 at 9:21 am

     Big big call in the US.

     But has time run out on Obama to close Guantanamo?
     • Colonial Viper 1.3.1

       19 August 2016 at 11:19 am

       Obama legacy shopping…but it is both a good and surprising move
2. Rodel 2

   19 August 2016 at 7:53 am

   A snippet which offers hope. Nats should take note.

   ‘U.S. Justice Department says it will end use of private prisons
   The Justice Department plans to phase out its use of private prisons after they were determined to be less safe and less effective that government facilities, The Washington Post reports.’
   http://thehill.com/
   • Jenny Kirk 2.1

     19 August 2016 at 8:24 am

     Well, well, well. How interesting to find that private operators of prisons do not do it all that well ! As if some of us ever thought they could.
     • Rodel 2.1.1

       19 August 2016 at 10:31 pm

       Helen said something like..’Only the democratically elected state has a mandate to incarcerate people- not commercially motivated private companies or individuals.’
       If even the US now realizes this axiom, how long will it take the English/Key cabal to catch up with what the civilized world already knows.
   • Sanctuary 2.2

     19 August 2016 at 8:36 am

     A background piece of outstanding journalism from Mother Jones…

     http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2016/06/cca-private-prisons-corrections-corporation-inmates-investigation-bauer
3. Colonial Viper 3

   19 August 2016 at 8:11 am

   This is a comment particularly for Anne; here is a recent video on how long term climate change is now affecting the specific day to day and week to week weather system behaviours that we are now seeing in the world.

   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p9isVrvMofw
   • Anne 3.1

     19 August 2016 at 9:14 am

     Thanks. Will watch later today. 🙂
   • Paul 3.2

     19 August 2016 at 5:41 pm

     Thanks cv – will also watch when time permits.
   • Anne 3.3

     19 August 2016 at 8:27 pm

     Thanks again CV. I was transported back to a former life. He also did a cracking good job explaining what Climate Change actually is for the uninitiated.
     • Colonial Viper 3.3.1

       19 August 2016 at 9:54 pm

       very welcome, Anne.
4. Jenny Kirk 4

   19 August 2016 at 8:22 am

   NZ Women at Rio : seems to me that we have quite a few women winning medals – has anyone done a count of how many medals the men have won, and how many the women have won ? Would be interested to know ……
   • Puckish Rogue 4.1

     19 August 2016 at 9:01 am

     http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/olympics/83337433/rio-olympics-2016-recordbreaking-games-for-new-zealand-as-medal-tally-reaches-14

     I’m not sure why its interesting but ok

     Men have won three golds and women have won one

     Men have won one silver and women have won seven silvers

     Bronze have been equally shared one each

     Probably more to come of course
   • TheExtremist 4.2

     19 August 2016 at 9:32 am

     What I like, as opposed to some of the coverage coming in from overseas, is that we give proper dues to our female athletes whereas in places like the USA mens performances are glamourised over their female counterparts.
5. Tautoko Mangō Mata 5

   19 August 2016 at 8:47 am

   Coca-Cola’s second largest bottling plant in India has been shut down

   The bottling plant in Hapur has been under scrutiny by the National Green Tribunal India’s ‘Green Court ‘– since 2015, and a number of inspections by government regulators have found the plant to be flouting environmental laws in India, and also operating without valid licenses, or No Objection Certificate (NOC).

   http://www.theecologist.org/News/news_round_up/2988031/cocacolas_second_largest_bottling_plant_in_india_has_been_shut_down.html
   More good news. Time for action on ugly corporations which exploit and pollute this planet and its people!
   • weka 5.1

     19 August 2016 at 8:59 am

     The Indian govt seems to be doing some interesting things,

     Monsanto is losing millions on failed GM cotton. The company illegally pushed a form of Bt cotton into India and Africa more than a decade ago, but farmers are now pushing back by planting their own indigenous seed.

     Monsanto is accused of writing laws and then breaking them to enter the market in India, but after more than 300,000 farmer deaths between 1995 and 2013, many of them attributed to Monsanto, the company is finally paying for their misdeeds. The corporation’s greed is linked to farmer suicides throughout Maharashtra, considered the ‘Cotton Belt’ in India.

     The Indian government is now actively promoting the use of indigenous seed, and has called Monsanto out for profiteering illegally on Bt cotton seed.

     Monsanto has already lost nearly $75 million in royalties this year (5 billion rupees) due to the change in seed choice by farmers. Sales in India have fallen by 15 percent, and though this is a relatively small market share, it is still making a huge impact on the company’s bottom line.

     http://www.ecosnippets.com/environmental/farmers-in-india-rebel-cotton-seed/
     • Ad 5.1.1

       19 August 2016 at 9:25 am

       All Monsanto are good for now is selling themselves into corporate parts.

       They’ve been on the block for a while and vastly overestimating their price to suitors.
     • Colonial Viper 5.1.2

       19 August 2016 at 9:26 am

       Very interesting as the US has been pressuring India to open its domestic market up to large US corporates more and more.
     • Whateva next? 5.1.3

       19 August 2016 at 9:42 am

       Very heartening after such brutal corporate control of India’s farmers
6. Sanctuary 6

   19 August 2016 at 8:56 am

   A question from me after reading the Mother Jones story I linked to above:

   Why are prisons sex segregated? Spanish prisons allow conjugal visits every 4-8 weeks. They are experimenting with family cells to keep families together if both parents are in jail and they have children under three, Spanish prisons have separate mens and womens wings, but the inmates mix in work and sometimes even marry,

   Now, thinking about it, if a man is convicted of a domestic violence crime why do we send him to a all-male, hyper-aggressive environment? How will that challenge his attitudes towards woman? Surely, strictly supervised interaction with women in prison (for example, in anger management sessions wouldn’t it be handy to have a few women inmates there to describe how they feel when assaulted?) would be much better? Surely, allowing sexual activity via conjugal visits would have a major impact on sexual assault inside prisons?
   • save nz 6.1

     19 August 2016 at 10:21 am

     Good points Sanctuary. We need new thinking and ideas about social issues, and then pilot programs to see if they work.
     • Sanctuary 6.1.1

       19 August 2016 at 10:51 am

       My views on this are similar to posh, single sex private schools. Is sending your kids to an all white, decile 10, mono cultural, single sex school really the best way to prepare them for lives in a multi cultural society? Or is it just a way to try and preserve class based advantage for a clearly identifiable social minority? I am pretty sure it is for the latter. Personally, I would abolish all single sex and private schools completely and make it a requirement that schools reflect as accurately as possible the socioeconomic and ethnic mix of a 10km radius.

       And if I reason like that for schools, why then would I reason any differently about prisons?
       • Colonial Viper 6.1.1.1

         19 August 2016 at 4:37 pm

         Boys do better in single sex schools, so they should be kept, especially given how disadvantaged males are in the public education system today.
         • mpledger 6.1.1.1.1

           19 August 2016 at 4:58 pm

           Girls schools emphasis seems to be at the 40th percentile. Boys schools emphasis seems to be at the 90th percentile (and sports stars).

           It means more girls pass, but boys fill the top spots.

           If your boy is top-notch academically send him to a boys schools, if he is top-notch at sport send him to a boys school, if he is neither send him coed.
         • Garibaldi 6.1.1.1.2

           19 August 2016 at 5:01 pm

           Well CV , I finally have found something I disagree with you on(apart from Trump by a landslide – there just aren’t enough redneck white males to get him there).
           I think boys need the interaction with females to grow up as better balanced citizens.
           I have taught at both a boys and a coed and I know which I prefer. In an all boys school Sport is paramount and used as bribery.
           I think Sanctuary’s comments re schooling are spot on.
           • Colonial Viper 6.1.1.1.2.1

             19 August 2016 at 9:59 pm

             well, i started by saying Trump by landslide, I’ve ratcheted that back down to Trump by easy win 🙂

             Yes boys need interaction with females, thats what going to a coed for the final year is for 🙂
7. Sabine 7

   19 August 2016 at 9:10 am

   The Emperor has no Balls

   Donald Trump Sculptures, real live and all are popping up all over the US.

   http://gothamist.com/2016/08/18/naked_donald_trump_statue.php#photo-1

   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f7TeTzOgkMs

   oh dear, someone please fetch me some pearls to clutch and a cup o tea 🙂
   • Rodel 7.1

     19 August 2016 at 8:54 pm

     LUV IT LUVIT!!!
   • Te Reo Putake 7.2

     19 August 2016 at 8:59 pm

     The parks department offer stiff opposition:

     “NYC Parks stands firmly against any unpermitted erection in city parks, no matter how small,” said Sam Biederman, a parks spokesman.
     • miravox 7.2.1

       19 August 2016 at 9:18 pm

       😀 Thanks for that Sam Biederman! (Hope you don’t lose your job).
8. vto 8

   19 August 2016 at 9:15 am

   The hypocrisy and vacuousness of the right wing National Party member mind is something to behold …….

   We have the steel suppliers who were all happy with the free market at play in the Chch rebuild when they made gold out of their steel through demand and supply driving prices from around $2-3 kg up to $7-8 kg.. oh yay they went, smiling all the way to the bank, driving around in new utes, buying new boats, aint it great this unfettered free market …
   … yet when supply from China drives those prices back down to where they used to be there is all manner of wailing and gnashing of teeth and crying to mummy in the government for some help..

   … pathetic

   Same with employers in the regions making their wares and voting for the free market and voting for the free market National Party ….
   … yet when they need a component for their business, namely labour, all semblance of the free market is abandoned for more crying and tears….. instead of paying more for what they need…

   … pathetic

   its called the free market business people, the free market. You voted for it. Man up and live with it, you are pathetic with your whingeing
9. save nz 9

   19 August 2016 at 10:23 am

   Angela Merkel surprised by massive protest march against TTIP in Berlin

   http://www.businessinsider.com/r-hundreds-of-thousands-protest-in-berlin-against-eu-us-trade-deal-2015-10/?r=AU&IR=T
10. save nz 10

    19 August 2016 at 10:26 am

    Injured Aleppo boy in ambulance illustrates Syrian conflict

    http://www.newshub.co.nz/world/injured-aleppo-boy-in-ambulance-illustrates-syrian-conflict-2016081821?ref=newshubFB

    (Not sure if the world’s media is ready to share images of kids in war by US bomb strikes which are edited out of the world’s media).
11. save nz 11

    19 August 2016 at 10:30 am

    message from Barry Coates

    “It makes no sense that the government is continuing to push the TPPA legislation through Parliament even though it would add huge costs from extending copyright from 50 to 70 years and strengthening patent rights. The benefits will go to big foreign corporations – New Zealand innovators and consumers will lose out.

    The research and evidence on TPPA is shoddy, with superficial analysis written or commissioned by MFAT to support their position. This contrasts with more thorough reports done in the US by the International Trade Commission that found virtually no economic benefit for the US, and a recent draft report by the Australian Productivity Commission that concluded the TPPA provisions would inhibit innovation and raise costs.

    In New Zealand, a series of expert peer-reviewed papers have raised serious questions about the TPPA, and highlighted the economic costs and problems such as restrictions on the government’s right to regulate (see https://itsourfuture.org.nz/tppa-research/).

    The TPPA is in big trouble in the US, and there is a huge majority of the public against it, as well as the two leading Presidential candidates. There is time for New Zealand to re-think its involvement in the TPPA and undertake proper research. The more we find out about this agreement, the more concerns that it raises. When we see the objective evidence, the government will have to agree with the majority of the public and reject the TPPA.

    Or if they don’t, the voters of New Zealand will have their chance at the next election to support political parties that reject the TPPA and similar agreements, and get rid of the provisions in exising treaties that allow foreign investors to sue our government.”
12. RTM 12

    19 August 2016 at 11:32 am

    Today, nearly one hundred and fifty-three years after the bloodiest post-Treaty battle on the soil of these islands, the invaders are withdrawing, and Rangiriri pa is being returned to Maori: http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/te-manu-korihi/311348/rangiriri-pa-returned-after-1863-invasion

    What was the battle of Rangiriri like for the men who fought it? We can get one answer to this question but looking at the beautiful and terrible photographs taken by the man who won a VC at Rangiriri:
    http://readingthemaps.blogspot.co.nz/2012/02/going-to-war-with-william-temple.html
13. b waghorn 13

    19 August 2016 at 1:50 pm

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/north-island/news/article.cfm?c_id=1503932&objectid=11696970

    The rape and plunder goes on, good old free market in action
14. Ad 14

    19 August 2016 at 2:18 pm

    These are the full prepared remarks from Trump a couple of days ago. He was relentlessly on message, regretting his more offensive remarks, nailing his rationale hard:

    http://www.politico.com/story/2016/08/donald-trump-never-lie-227183

    Enjoy! He ain’t out out of this race.
    • Colonial Viper 14.1

      19 August 2016 at 3:34 pm

      “How Bloomberg spun their own poll data to make Clinton seem inevitable”

      Clinton 6 points ahead of Trump said the Bloomberg headline.

      (Except when you look at the four way data between Clinton, Trump, the Libertarians and the Greens, Clinton was actually only 2 points ahead i.e. in a statistical tie with Trump).

      http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-08-16/how-bloomberg-spun-its-own-poll-data-make-hillary-clinton-seem-inevitable
      • swordfish 14.1.1

        19 August 2016 at 10:51 pm

        Yeah, that’s happened a number of times over the last week or two. Headlines based on the two-way rather than four-way data, thus exaggerating Clinton’s lead.

        Similar in the UK – in the last couple of days, there’s been some dodgy reporting of a BMG Poll on Corbyn vs Smith as Labour leader. Among people who voted Labour in 2015, Corbyn beats Smith marginally (by 4 points – 52% vs 48%). But among people currently intending to vote Labour at the next General Election, Corbyn wins by a massive 32 points (66% vs 34%).

        A number of UK media outlets (along with prominent poll analyst-twitters with strong anti-Corbyn tendencies) have focussed solely on the 52/48 split, strongly implying that these are the figures for current Labour supporters.
        • Colonial Viper 14.1.1.1

          19 August 2016 at 11:01 pm

          in the Bloomberg one they also had to throw in the “lean to” results from the don’t knows to give Clinton her 6 point lead.

          If Scott Adams is right at least some of those will have said Clinton because they didn’t want to admit to supporting Trump.
    • McFlock 14.2

      19 August 2016 at 3:37 pm

      As prepared.
      How was his delivery?
      • Colonial Viper 14.2.1

        19 August 2016 at 3:46 pm

        Compare the crowd size to Clinton’s campaign events.

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBB1BHsDTbI
        • McFlock 14.2.1.1

          19 August 2016 at 3:52 pm

          didn’t we do the same comparison with Bernie’s crowds? How did that work out?
          • Colonial Viper 14.2.1.1.1

            19 August 2016 at 4:19 pm

            Bernie lost, the Democrats stabbed him in the back
            • McFlock 14.2.1.1.1.1

              19 August 2016 at 4:32 pm

              You mean he didn’t get enough delegates to win.

              The more Trump speaks, the more he becomes entertainment rather than presidential material.
              • Colonial Viper …

                19 August 2016 at 4:35 pm

                No, I mean Debbie Wasserman Schultz and the other leaders of the DNC stabbed Bernie in the back, and had to resign over it.
                • McFlock …

                  19 August 2016 at 4:41 pm

                  Uh-huh.

                  How did their activities affect Sanders’ delegate votes?
                  • Colonial Viper …

                    19 August 2016 at 4:50 pm

                    Dunno but the DNC CEO, chair, communications director and CFO all resigned in disgrace over it, so they were all involved in screwing the scrum against Bernie.
                    • McFlock …

                      19 August 2016 at 4:53 pm

                      well, bad-mouthing the fuck out of him in emails to each other. A bit like how that general lost his job after badmouthing the president when the embedded rolling stone journo was in the room.

                      Didn’t affect the number of votes Sanders got in the primaries, though.
                    • Colonial Viper …

                      19 August 2016 at 4:56 pm

                      they organised against Sanders. You know, like using his religion against him.
                    • McFlock …

                      19 August 2016 at 4:59 pm

                      But you don’t know if it’s even likely that this affected the primaries? Were there any indications of ballot-stuffing, or whatever?

                      How did they organise against him?
                    • Colonial Viper …

                      19 August 2016 at 7:45 pm

                      Oh I see McFlock. The DNC’s cheating doesn’t count as cheating unless it affected things on the ground?

                      Well, for starters it lends credence to Sanders supporters complaints that from the very start that voter registration and polling booth management was slanted against them.
                    • McFlock …

                      19 August 2016 at 7:54 pm

                      You haven’t demonstrated any cheating. A lot of griping and unprofessional emails, but nothing that affected the election.

                      It doesn’t “lend credence” to anything, unless D W-S was personally handling voter registrations or managing a polling booth. Do the parties even have anything to do with polling booth management or voter registration? Because at least some seem to be run by state boards of elections.
              • Lanthanide …

                20 August 2016 at 12:10 am

                Trump was entertainment during the primaries. Now he’s a very bad horror movie.
                • McFlock …

                  20 August 2016 at 12:19 am

                  My worry is that he learns how to stick to an autocue.
        • joe90 14.2.1.2

          19 August 2016 at 4:12 pm

          Yuuge….

          Trump campaign has curtained off most of this large convention hall in Charlotte for this rally: pic.twitter.com/x7uuPl3icp— Jenna Johnson (@wpjenna) August 19, 2016
          • Colonial Viper 14.2.1.2.1

            19 August 2016 at 4:32 pm

            Looked like a crowd of maybe 5,000 to me. How many at the Hillary campaign rally today?

            Oh yeah there wasn’t one.
            • te reo putake 14.2.1.2.1.1

              19 August 2016 at 4:50 pm

              Hillary doesn’t really need to do another rally. She’s already won. If big numbers at rallies was the decider, Bernie Sanders would have won the Democrat nomination, because he sure packed ’em out. But, in the real world, it’s votes that count and most voters make their mind up via their favourite media, not down at the town hall. The big rallies to come will really be aimed at maxing out the win. That’s about Democrat senators, congressman and governors. The real victory will be winning back control of the house and senate and taking the governorships in states that haven’t been democrat in years. That’ll be Trump’s legacy; handing the Democrats near total control of the political apparatus.
              • Colonial Viper …

                19 August 2016 at 4:54 pm

                I’ll check back in with your personal fantasy world come November
                • te reo putake …

                  19 August 2016 at 5:00 pm

                  I suspect you’re going to very quiet in November, oh great sage. But I for one won’t be rubbing it in when you do reappear. We all make mistakes. The point is to not repeat them too often or too publicly.
                  • McFlock …

                    19 August 2016 at 5:08 pm

                    The aggregate state polling is interesting, albeit still a bit soon to tell 🙂
              • Garibaldi …

                19 August 2016 at 5:12 pm

                trp – Hillary won because the Democratic Party shafted Bernie.
                • McFlock …

                  19 August 2016 at 5:16 pm

                  How?
                  • Colonial Viper …

                    19 August 2016 at 7:09 pm

                    From the Washington Post, about the top revelations from the DNC emails:

                    1) Targeting Sanders’s religion?

                    On May 5, DNC officials appeared to conspire to raise Sanders’s faith as an issue and press on whether he was an atheist — apparently in hopes of steering religious voters in Kentucky and West Virginia to Clinton. Sanders is Jewish but has previously indicated that he’s not religious.

                    2) Wasserman Schultz calls top Sanders aide a “damn liar”…

                    On May 17, after controversy erupted over the Nevada state Democratic convention and how fair the process was there, Wasserman Schultz herself took exception to Sanders campaign manager Jeff Weaver’s defense of his candidate’s supporters.

                    3) … and says Sanders has “no understanding” of the party

                    That wasn’t the only time Wasserman Schultz offered an unvarnished opinion about the Sanders operation. And in one late-April email, she even questioned Sanders’s connection to the party.

                    4) A Clinton lawyer gives DNC strategy advice on Sanders

                    When the Sanders campaign alleged that the Clinton campaign was improperly using its joint fundraising committee with the DNC to benefit itself, Clinton campaign lawyer Marc Elias offered the DNC guidance on how to respond.

                    5) Plotting a narrative about how Sanders’s campaign failed

                    On May 21, DNC national press secretary Mark Pautenbach suggested pushing a narrative that Sanders “never ever had his act together, that his campaign was a mess.”

                    After detailing several arguments that could be made to push that narrative, Paustenbach concludes: “It’s not a DNC conspiracy, it’s because they never had their act together.”

                    6) Mocking Sanders for his California debate push

                    One of the chief complaints from Sanders and his supporters was a lack of debates. They said the fact that there were so few was intended to help Clinton by reducing her opponents’ exposure and their chances to knock her down.

                    7) Wishing Sanders would just end it

                    Many of these emails came as it was clear Clinton was going to win — which makes the apparent favoritism perhaps less offensive (though Sanders supporters would certainly disagree).

                    But it’s also clear that there was plenty of cheerleading for the race to simply be over — for Sanders to throw in the towel so that Clinton could be named the presumptive nominee. The party, of course, was still supposed to be neutral even though the odds and delegate deficit for Sanders looked insurmountable.

                    8) Calling an alleged Sanders sympathizer a “Bernie bro”

                    The term “Bernie bro” — or “Berniebro,” depending on your style — over the course of the campaign became a kind of shorthand for the worst kind of Sanders supporter. These were the supporters who couldn’t be reasoned with and verbally assaulted opponents, sometimes in very nasty ways.

                    9) Criticizing Obama for lack of fundraising help — “That’s f—ing stupid”

                    While the Sanders emails have gained the most attention, some of the more interesting emails involve a peek behind to curtain of how party officials talk about fundraising and major donors — and even President Obama.

                    In one email on May 9, DNC mid-Atlantic and PAC finance director Alexandra Shapiro noted that Obama wouldn’t travel 20 minutes to help the party secure $350,000 in donations.

                    “He really won’t go up 20 minutes for $350k?” Shapiro wrote. “THAT’S f—ing stupid.”

                    10) 10) Flippant chatter about donors

                    In a May 16 exchange about where to seat a top Florida donor, Kaplan declared that “he doesn’t sit next to POTUS!” — referring to Obama.

                    “Bittel will be sitting in the sh—iest corner I can find,” responded Shapiro. She also referred to other donors as “clowns.”
                    • Te Reo Putake …

                      19 August 2016 at 7:24 pm

                      You missed the bit where the DNC forced people at gunpoint to vote for Hillary against their will. Bastards.
                    • Colonial Viper …

                      19 August 2016 at 7:29 pm

                      TRP, I think people can read for themselves to see what the self proclaimed “neutral” DMC was all about, when it came to Clinton vs Sanders.

                      The pro status quo’ers backed Clinton the weaker, less popular, more right wing candidate.
                    • McFlock …

                      19 August 2016 at 7:39 pm

                      lol

                      Funny list, none of which expplains why Sanders didn’t win the nomination. It does explain the resignations, though – especially ripping shit out of Obama. Very similar to McChrystal.

                      Itemised response below, but TL:DR – all can be answered with some combinations of “In public? Or, shock horror, did someone use an unprofessional tone in an internal email?” and “Did it effect the primary?”

                      1) Targeting Sanders’s religion?

                      In public? Or, shock horror, did someone use an unprofessional tone in an internal email? Did it effect the primary?

                      2) Wasserman Schultz calls top Sanders aide a “damn liar”…

                      In public? Or, shock horror, did someone use an unprofessional tone in an internal email? Did it effect the primary?

                      3) … and says Sanders has “no understanding” of the party

                      In public? Or, shock horror, did someone use an unprofessional tone in an internal email? Did it effect the primary?

                      4) A Clinton lawyer gives DNC strategy advice on Sanders

                      Did it effect the primary?

                      5) Plotting a narrative about how Sanders’s campaign failed

                      Did it effect the primary?

                      6) Mocking Sanders for his California debate push

                      In public? Or, shock horror, did someone use an unprofessional tone in an internal email? Did it effect the primary?

                      7) Wishing Sanders would just end it

                      In public? Or, shock horror, did someone use an unprofessional tone in an internal email? Did it effect the primary?

                      8) Calling an alleged Sanders sympathizer a “Bernie bro”

                      In public? Or, shock horror, did someone use an unprofessional tone in an internal email? Did it effect the primary?

                      9) Criticizing Obama for lack of fundraising help — “That’s f—ing stupid”

                      In public? Or, shock horror, did someone use an unprofessional tone in an internal email?

                      10) 10) Flippant chatter about donors

                      In public? Or, shock horror, did someone use an unprofessional tone in an internal email?
                    • Te Reo Putake …

                      19 August 2016 at 7:43 pm

                      Um, if you win a two option democratic election, you are, by definition, the popular candidate. Sanders has got over it and showed that he understands the process and the real threat facing the people of the States (and the rest of us). You, on the other hand, not so much …

                      Repeating already forgotten attack lines doesn’t change the simple fact that Hillary Clinton won the nomination. More people voted for her than for her opponent. She campaigned and won. You’d better get used to that, because it’s going happen again in a couple of months.
                    • McFlock …

                      19 August 2016 at 7:43 pm

                      less popular

                      Not according to the votes.
                    • Colonial Viper …

                      19 August 2016 at 7:52 pm

                      No wonder the Clinton machine had to work so hard to exclude independent voters from their primaries.

                      Read and weep status quo supporting bros.

                      Right now the poll averages reported by both Real Clear Politics and the Huffington Post show Sanders with an average 11 percent lead over Trump, and Clinton ahead of Trump by a much narrower margin of 3 percent. The four latest polls that compare Sanders and Clinton all show Sanders ahead with margins of 12, 13, 13, and 4 percent.1 Clinton, in contrast, is ahead by 3, 2, and 6 points in three of the four polls and behind Trump by 3 points in the latest of the four; together these four polls produce an average Sanders lead of 10.5 points and a Clinton lead of 2 points.

                      http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jerome-karabel/sanders-clinton-electability_b_10106256.html
                    • McFlock …

                      19 August 2016 at 8:02 pm

                      How did they exclude independent voters?

                      Isn’t voter registration administered by the states, not the parties?
                    • marty mars …

                      19 August 2016 at 8:11 pm

                      cv why are you bringing up bernie – you support trump – are you really saying you’d have flip flopped between sanders and trump – that seems hardly credible.
            • Ad 14.2.1.2.1.2

              19 August 2016 at 5:41 pm

              Fox and Trump campaign on the difference between a crowd of 5,000, and one person and their tv:

              http://edition.cnn.com/videos/politics/2016/08/17/michael-cohen-donald-trump-poll-number-brianna-keilar-sot-tsr.cnn
          • joe90 14.2.1.2.2

            19 August 2016 at 4:59 pm

            Them 3 percenters love some Donald.

            Spotted at Trump's rally in Charlotte, NC: Man holding a "Citizen's Rule Book" and an 8-pointed star w/ 'Muslim': pic.twitter.com/62AcuuFEji— Frank Thorp V (@frankthorp) August 19, 2016

            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizens_Rule_Book
15. Muttonbird 15

    19 August 2016 at 2:39 pm

    National voters now think they own the colour blue…

    http://www.newshub.co.nz/politics/complaint-over-goffs-blue-billboards-2016081913
16. The Chairman 16

    19 August 2016 at 3:50 pm

    Media beat-up or was Andrew Little trying to highlight to voters that Labour can row in different directions all on its own?

    http://www.newshub.co.nz/politics/where-does-labour-stand-on-decriminalising-cannabis-2016081116

    Thoughts?
    • Muttonbird 16.1

      19 August 2016 at 4:46 pm

      First thing that springs to mind is why are you linking to a story over a week old?

      I think cannabis reform is inevitable and there is a huge appetite for more open access to medicinal cannabis right now.

      If anyone is having a bob each way it is of course John Key who intimated during the week that cops ‘kind of’ turn a blind eye to recreational possession already. He worries about sending the wrong message through decriminalisation but isn’t the slightest bit concerned about sending the wrong message by stating cops currently enforce the law (or not) as they see fit.

      I think we can all guess which type of person cops are likely to throw the book at…
      • weka 16.1.1

        19 August 2016 at 5:21 pm

        If that’s the beat up from last week I understood perfectly clearly where Labour stand. They will move on medical csnnsbis as soon as in power and they will consider a referendum on general decriminalisation but it won’t be a priority eg not in their first hundred days. Don’t know why some people found that difficult to understand.
        • Muttonbird 16.1.1.1

          19 August 2016 at 5:26 pm

          Agree. It’s a beat up by those interested in painting Andrew Little and Labour as indecisive and contradictory. See The Chairman.
          • The Chairman 16.1.1.1.1

            19 August 2016 at 5:45 pm

            Don’t shoot the messenger. I merely put the question out there.

            Moreover, Labour don’t require me to paint them as indecisive and contradictory, they’ve done a pretty good job of giving voters that impression themselves. They often grandstand against things, only to later go on and support them, albeit, with a few minor changes.
            • Muttonbird 16.1.1.1.1.1

              19 August 2016 at 5:58 pm

              Don’t tell me. You’ve always voted Labour. As did your father, and your father’s father. Your family has always been Labour, but you can’t bring yourself to vote for them now because Andrew Little doesn’t smile enough.
              • The Chairman …

                19 August 2016 at 6:22 pm

                One finds politicians often come and go. It’s the Party’s agenda that tends to remain. Unfortunately, Labour adopted a neo-liberal agenda long before Little came along and have yet to fully let go.

                Therefore, it would be fair to say Labour parted with me. Nevertheless, still hoping they’ll find their Corbyn moment.
                • weka …

                  19 August 2016 at 6:31 pm

                  There is no Corbyn in the NZ Labour Party. Not point in waiting for something that is literally not possible.
                  • The Chairman …

                    20 August 2016 at 7:37 am

                    While there is no Corbyn in the NZ Labour Party, it doesn’t necessarily mean a Corbyn moment will never develop.

                    Labour being center left robs the party of that crucial point of difference (not merely fluffing around the edges as they do) while allowing National far greater opportunity to copy policy.

                    Moreover, it’s helping shift the whole political spectrum to the state now that the Greens are considered by a number to be far left, while reaffirming to voters there is no real alternative but to fluff around the edges. Helping to strengthen and cement in the neo-liberal view.

                    Additionally, this has disappointed and disenfranchised a number of voters, giving them the impression little changes, there is no brighter future regardless who one votes for. Thus. they no longer partake.

                    Bringing into question your assertion that we are better served at this point by letting Labour be centre left.

                    I’m not calling for extreme leftism. But Labour requires to show more of a point of difference. As they did with Kiwibuild, which was widely welcomed by voters.

                    This highlights voters are open to a more hands on Government where they feel the market is lacking (or, as the cannabis poll highlights, laws are deemed heavy handed and outdated).
                • Muttonbird …

                  19 August 2016 at 6:39 pm

                  I don’t know where you or CV are coming from on this.

                  While there are some areas where Labour today finds it important to meet a changed world at an appropriate junction, from what I understand the very core Labour values of the past around housing as a right and not a privilege, strong rights and representation for workers, and educational investment in the future for all Kiwis have not been a stronger priority in recent times than under the current Andrew Little lead Labour party.

                  I think there is a fair amount of Corbyn in Little and despite what the conservative media and blogosphere might have you believe, Little is very consistent on these things mentioned above.
                  • Colonial Viper …

                    19 August 2016 at 7:42 pm

                    You can tell that there is less Corbyn rather than more Corbyn in Little simply because Labour’s right wing tolerate Little.

                    Whereas UK Labour’s right wing couldn’t tolerate a self declared socialist like Corbyn.
                    • Muttonbird …

                      19 August 2016 at 8:03 pm

                      Well, happy to see you recognise at least some true socialist values in Little even if weka doesn’t.
                    • marty mars …

                      19 August 2016 at 8:28 pm

                      “Labour’s right wing tolerate Little” lol I think you have been out of the loop too long cv – what a rubbish line you’ve used.
                    • weka …

                      19 August 2016 at 8:41 pm

                      I see socialist values in Little. I just don’t think he is a Corbyn. He has his own attributes though and I think we are better served at this poin by letting Labour be centre left (hopefully moving left), rather than expecting people to be who and what they are not. You can’t manufacture a Corbyn, but that doesn’t mean that there aren’t other good ways to be.
                  • Jenny Kirk …

                    19 August 2016 at 9:06 pm

                    +100% Muttonbird
                  • The Chairman …

                    20 August 2016 at 7:48 am

                    “While there are some areas where Labour today finds it important to meet a changed world at an appropriate junction, from what I understand the very core Labour values of the past around housing as a right and not a privilege, strong rights and representation for workers, and educational investment in the future for all Kiwis have not been a stronger priority in recent times than under the current Andrew Little lead Labour party.”

                    Well said. However, I somewhat disagree.

                    While it is important to meet a changed world at an appropriate junction, Labour have yet to identify that appropriate junction which also brings a significant number of voters along.

                    It’s good Labour is trying to improve rights and representation for workers but their educational investment falls short. As with their housing policy, it doesn’t go far enough mitigating offshore demand.

                    So while these may have not been a stronger priority in recent times than under the current Andrew Little lead Labour party, there is clearly more work to be done.
          • Rodel 16.1.1.1.2

            19 August 2016 at 9:06 pm

            Andrew Little -Qualified Lawyer, -Union president- Labour. Got my vote against I’m relaxed … John -‘no but what I can say’ boy.
            It’s interesting how the Nat trolls persist in using multiple questions and repetitive question marks. That’s Amway 101 strategy. (He who asks the questions controls the conversation). Zzzzz
        • The Chairman 16.1.1.2

          19 August 2016 at 5:53 pm

          Weka, do you believe if Labour were to make it (a referendum) a priority (sometime within the first term) it will harm them or improve their support?
          • weka 16.1.1.2.1

            19 August 2016 at 6:30 pm

            I think it would depend on how they were doing with everything else. Lots of NZers support decriminalisation, but would not be too happy about it being prioritised over other things that are more important. I think the medical cannabis issue is more important and should be dealt with separately. I also think that the L/G govt will need to coax NZ left again not go hard out. Then there is the Peters issue.

            btw Little didn’t say what a priority meant for Labour. The example he gave was not in the first hundred days. So you calling the first term a priority is about you not Labour. Just so we are clear.
            • The Chairman 16.1.1.2.1.1

              19 August 2016 at 6:53 pm

              “I think it would depend on how they were doing with everything else. Lots of NZers support decriminalisation, but would not be too happy about it being prioritised over other things that are more important.”

              Hence, to be clear, my suggesting within the first term.

              Moreover, surely Labour are capable of doing more than one thing at a time?

              Coaxing NZ left again opens Labour up to falling short and looking indecisive. Often resulting in disappointing both the right and left.
              • Colonial Viper …

                19 August 2016 at 7:36 pm

                Labour is happy to lead in a “priority” area like gay marriage, but not on a non-priority area like cannabis decriminalisation.
                • marty mars …

                  19 August 2016 at 8:25 pm

                  Equal rights based on humanity not sexual orientation and the right to take natural substances that aren’t going to get you sent to jail – hmmm both rights to fight for imo and I don’t really see the binary of one verses the other. Your pettiness and privilege and ihatelabour colours are showing again cv and it ain’t pretty.
                  • Colonial Viper …

                    19 August 2016 at 11:09 pm

                    as I pointed out Marty Mars Labour was quite happy to lead the charge for gay marriage but not in decriminalising cannabis. Because not as important.
                    • McFlock …

                      20 August 2016 at 12:17 am

                      Labour was quite happy to lead the charge for gay marriage

                      Actually it was a private member’s bill that received cross-party support. It wasn’t exactly Labour policy. Nor were civil unions, although they were ministerial decisions. Helen Clark was about as committed to “gay marriage” as Litte is for marijuana legalisation.
                    • Colonial Viper …

                      20 August 2016 at 1:03 am

                      Yeah but in reality all the Labour MPs speeches on the night the Bill passed into law were so thoroughly triumphant and righteous.
                    • McFlock …

                      20 August 2016 at 2:42 pm

                      Because it was the correct thing to do. And I’m sure the Greens, and even half of the nats, were pretty happy about it. They also voted for it. Hell, the most famous speech in support of it was an otherwise unremarkable nat talking about big gay rainbows.

                      I also liked how you could only respond to facts with a tone argument. Very illuminating.
            • Jenny Kirk 16.1.1.2.1.2

              19 August 2016 at 9:08 pm

              Little’s and Labour’s priorities have been clearly spelt out several times, Weka. They are (not necessarily in this order) housing, education, good public health, jobs, and being fair to people (not just the 1%) .
              • weka …

                19 August 2016 at 9:15 pm

                Thanks Jenny 🙂
      • The Chairman 16.1.2

        19 August 2016 at 5:22 pm

        “First thing that springs to mind is why are you linking to a story over a week old?”

        Merely catching up with some older news.

        Yes, there is a huge appetite for more open access to medicinal cannabis right now. Moreover, overwhelming support for a law change around recreational use/possession.

        Unfortunately, Little personally doesn’t support a law change. However, he is open to a referendum, but doesn’t believe it’s a priority.

        Considering how poorly Labour is polling while keeping in mind the strong support in the poll for a cannabis law change, perhaps Little should reconsider making it a priority?
        • Te Reo Putake 16.1.2.1

          19 August 2016 at 7:28 pm

          Concern troll is concerned.
        • Colonial Viper 16.1.2.2

          19 August 2016 at 7:38 pm

          You may have noticed The Chairman that Labour does not have well developed listening skills.
          • Te Reo Putake 16.1.2.2.1

            19 August 2016 at 7:49 pm

            I’m not the Labour Party, CV. Remember Bill’s rule about telling porkies about authors. Six weeks off, as I recall.
            • weka 16.1.2.2.1.1

              19 August 2016 at 8:43 pm

              I think he was referring to something in the previous comment that demonstrated Labour don’t listen (his interpretation). Not aimed at you, and the comment was a reply to yours.

              Unfortunately, Little personally doesn’t support a law change. However, he is open to a referendum, but doesn’t believe it’s a priority.

              Considering how poorly Labour is polling while keeping in mind the strong support in the poll for a cannabis law change, perhaps Little should reconsider making it a priority?
              • Te Reo Putake …

                19 August 2016 at 8:54 pm

                Fair call, weka, benefit of the doubt and all that.
                • weka …

                  19 August 2016 at 9:19 pm

                  I think it was the threading that made it a bit clearer for me.
                • Colonial Viper …

                  19 August 2016 at 11:05 pm

                  this ain’t your post TRP, and if you want authors treated with respect you can always try and show us how by example why don’t you.
                  • Te Reo Putake …

                    20 August 2016 at 8:44 am

                    I’m pretty sure I do show respect, where it’s deserved. However, woman hating, lefty baiting, ableist, conservative misanthropes get very little respect from me at all. Get used to it.
                    • Colonial Viper …

                      20 August 2016 at 8:51 am

                      I’ve dealt with plenty of jumped up authoritarians before TRP. Join the list.
                    • te reo putake []

                      20 August 2016 at 8:58 am

                      Yes, dear. Care to remind us again of the mortal blows you struck against jumped up authoritarian Clare Curran?
                    • Colonial Viper …

                      20 August 2016 at 9:03 am

                      Curran’s majority will be under 3,000 next year; she’s totally trashed the almost 11,000 electorate majority that Benson Pope built up.
                    • te reo putake …

                      20 August 2016 at 9:20 am

                      Ah, well. It’s nice that you acknowledge she’s a winner, CV.

                      Speaking of jumped up authoritarians, hows Donald Trump going? I see he’s lost yet another leader from his team this morning. Maybe you should offer to take Paul Manafort’s place? You’re definitely his kinda guy (see list above).
            • Bill 16.1.2.2.1.2

              19 August 2016 at 9:23 pm

              You telling porkies about some rule I’ve apparently either laid down or adhere to there trp?

              tsk-tsk.

              Mind you, thanks to the torturous catch 22 that your assertion spawns, you won’t actually have to be self banning for six weeks in the interests of consistency or whatever….I mean, that would’ve been quite a thing, aye? 😉
              • marty mars …

                19 August 2016 at 10:10 pm

                That is a good recursive one Bill nice
                • adam …

                  19 August 2016 at 10:55 pm

                  Boy you dribble out incoherently some days marty mars. And boy am I over you having a go at Colonial Viper.
                  • marty mars …

                    19 August 2016 at 11:25 pm

                    Take it to the right thread bub.

                    I don’t care what you think about my interrelationshp with cv – we have been conversing for years.
              • Te Reo Putake …

                20 August 2016 at 8:38 am

                Bill, it’s your ruling. Peter Swift a few weeks ago. Look it up if it’s slipped your mind.
                • Colonial Viper …

                  20 August 2016 at 8:56 am

                  Are you going to ban yourself now TRP for misrepresenting Bill’s ruling?

                  Or is it different rules for yourself, than for everyone else?
                  • te reo putake …

                    20 August 2016 at 9:25 am

                    It’s Bill’s ruling. Lie about an author, get banned. It seems perfectly sensible to me and I’m happy to follow the path he has laid down.
                    • Colonial Viper …

                      20 August 2016 at 9:40 am

                      Then feel free to ban yourself for calling me misogynist, ableist, and those other stupid sneers you spout.
                    • te reo putake …

                      20 August 2016 at 10:37 am

                      The truth is the best defence, CV. I’ve never described your unpleasant traits inaccurately. They’re your comments, your opinions. If you don’t like being identified as a misogynist or ableist etc. don’t write the comments that show you to be those things.

                      Easy, eh?
                    • Colonial Viper …

                      20 August 2016 at 12:31 pm

                      OK I get it, your sneering bullshit about another author is the unvarnished honest truth whereas my bullshit about you are merely lies.

                      Whateva you say, you like being the boss.
                    • te reo putake []

                      20 August 2016 at 1:32 pm

                      No, clearly, you don’t get it. CV. You comment like an unrestrained arse and don’t like being called on it. Your expressed opinions are often deeply offensive to women, the old, unionists, the left and most recently, those you consider to be physically unfit to contribute to society in the way they choose. You don’t get to have it both ways. Express your hate filled opinions freely and get called on it from time to time or moderate your language so it’s not quite so obvious that you are a misanthrope.

                      You’ll have spotted that plenty of other righties can comment here without being deliberately offensive. Perhaps you can learn from them?
                • Bill …

                  20 August 2016 at 9:55 am

                  I made a decision. A decision is not a rule. eg – today I decided to put on red socks. That doesn’t mean a rule has been passed or laid down to the effect that red socks must be worn.

                  You’re behaving like a school yard bully – making shit up with the sole intention of abusing people.

                  It’s really fucking boring and unpleasant trp – one of the worst types of trolling.
                  • te reo putake …

                    20 August 2016 at 10:29 am

                    Fair call, Bill. Apologies for getting the terminology wrong. It’s a decision, not a ruling. I respect your decision and will build on the precedent it sets where needed.
          • The Chairman 16.1.2.2.2

            20 August 2016 at 8:23 am

            Some in Labour and a number of their cheerleaders often don’t like having their position questioned or critiqued. Thus, regularly pull out the old right wing troll line instead of genuinely taking it on board.
            • Colonial Viper 16.1.2.2.2.1

              20 August 2016 at 9:00 am

              The guts of their behaviour is that they are so internally certain they both know more and know better than everyone else. Pretty arrogant for a declining party on track to come in somewhere around the 25% mark.

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