Tents warehouses and driveways

64 comments on “Tents warehouses and driveways ”

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1. Ad 1

   19 August 2016 at 7:31 am

   +100
   Rob great stuff as ever
2. Adrian 2

   19 August 2016 at 7:35 am

   Key may be in mourning.
   The neoliberal privatisation dream is over with news from the US this morning that all private prisons to close as they are more expensive dangerous and badly run than Federal ones.
   Shit they must be bad.
   • Garibaldi 2.1

     19 August 2016 at 7:49 am

     That’s great news Adrian. Trouble is it’s a step too far to expect our idiot govt. to drop any of the failed policies it has adopted from overseas neocon governments.
3. weka 3

   19 August 2016 at 7:55 am

   “You’d have to do a lot of work to a shipping container to lift it to “maybe” status, and even then it’s a short-term emergency measure. We need to build more state houses.”

   A lot less work than building a house though and fast. Shipping container conversions done right would be a useful thing. Immediate emergency housing that is transportable and can be used in a variety of situations including post-disaster rebuilds. I don’t trust National to understand how to do that though (remember the Chch camper van fiasco?) because to make shipping containers work you have to have the ability to understand what people need in terms of a home. Bennett is basically incapable of that degree of empathy.

   Btw container conversions can make good permanent homes.
   • jcuknz 3.1

     19 August 2016 at 8:59 am

     Well written Weka 🙂
   • dukeofurl 3.2

     19 August 2016 at 9:51 am

     Container conversions seem to be mostly temporary single occupant type housing. There could be ’boutique’ conversion for those who want something different- a small market.
     • weka 3.2.1

       19 August 2016 at 10:02 am

       I wasn’t talking about the market. Most tiny home builds are for couples, but they’re great for singles too. Not sure why you think they’re temporary.
       • dukeofurl 3.2.1.1

         19 August 2016 at 10:32 am

         These are boutique conversions
         http://www.refreshrenovations.co.nz/advice/shipping-container-homes/

         Bigger scale seems to be construction camps as you know containers are sized for ease of movement using existing infrastructure.
         They are only really feasible when at the end of their life for transport purposes

         This guy has some real experience and raises some compelling issues
         http://www.treehugger.com/sustainable-product-design/whats-wrong-shipping-container-housing-one-architect-says-everything.html
         The are too heavy for residential use and are a waste of resources, far better to recycle them into steel housing framing.

         At the end of the day do we really want to come up with homes that are sized for driveways ?
         • s y d 3.2.1.1.1

           19 August 2016 at 10:39 am

           +however many you want.
           containers are for shipping goods, not housing people. we need to think better than this.
           • Siobhan 3.2.1.1.1.1

             19 August 2016 at 11:19 am

             Well, come picking season down here in the Hakes Bay we have a small container village that pops up just out of town. I hate to think how many overseas workers they can cram into one of those things.
             If only NZ workers weren’t so uppity and were willing to live like sardines in shipping containers, then the pittance wages for the season would be more than enough to last the year.
             • weka …

               19 August 2016 at 11:28 am

               Those aren’t homes, please stop confusing the two.
               • Siobhan …

                 19 August 2016 at 11:42 am

                 I am not.

                 The point is containers can make great housing solutions when done right, infact I’m sure I’ve seen many housing programs and designer magazines where the end product is award winning.. But given how badly we do at maintaining housing for the poor, and even building houses for the well to do, I hate to think what level we will stoop to once we start using containers.
                 • weka …

                   19 August 2016 at 12:15 pm

                   Ok, so you support container housing so long as it’s of a good standard. Sounds reasonable.

                   I don’t trust the government to manage that well, which is another kete of whitebait.
           • jcuknz 3.2.1.1.1.2

             19 August 2016 at 11:19 am

             It depends on how they at modified … people have a very restricted view of them from their primary purpose … sad really that rigid concepts hinder a solution to the problem.
         • weka 3.2.1.1.2

           19 August 2016 at 11:32 am

           What do you mean by boutique? You think people that need housing shouldn’t have houses that a hipster could live in?

           Why are they too heavy for residential use?

           Basic sustainability princple, upcycle and reuse before recycling. Recycling is energy intenstive and polluting.

           “At the end of the day do we really want to come up with homes that are sized for driveways?”

           Lots of people live in tiny homes and like it. The size of housing in NZ is much larger than it used to be. Many places in the world utilise smaller housing, so there is a cultural thing here. No-one is suggesting that a family of four should have to live in a container (although there are some for whom that would work well) but not everyone who needs housing needs a big house.

           I think this is a process of getting past preconceived ideas about what housing is. We need to be innovative here. I know lots of people who live in tiny housing, including people who have lived in converted containers, good ones and poor ones, so it seems more real to me rather than abstract.
           • dukeofurl 3.2.1.1.2.1

             19 August 2016 at 11:57 am

             Yes a few people like tiny homes, the boutique market, as shown in the refreshreno site. Individual design and consent is required of course.
             Some are very sweet and fill a niche for occasional use here and there.

             Id be intrigued where they are used on larger scale that isnt a temporary solution.
             This is more likely
             Keetwonen is the name of the biggest container city in the world. A student village using containers in Amsterdam.
             It doesnt say why but its being removed, but it fits the bill for being temporary
             http://www.tempohousing.com/projects/keetwonen.html
             • weka …

               19 August 2016 at 12:20 pm

               Why do you think they are temporary? Do you think they don’t last?

               The tiny housing movement in the US is booming.

               Consent issues vary depending on how transportable the building is. Some need no consent, others do.
               • dukeofurl …

                 19 August 2016 at 1:35 pm

                 Recent annual new house units are at the 1.1million mark, I think that includes apartments not just separate dwellings

                 Looking at floor area size for individual homes ( in old Sq ft) shows US in love with ultra large standalone houses

                 2105 648,000 units only 49,000 are under 1400sqft ( 7.5%)compared to 132,000 between 3-4000 sq ft US census.
                 http://www.census.gov/construction/nrc/index.html
                 Could tiny houses be only 1-2k new house starts. Actual figures hard to find.

                 I think ‘tiny houses’ are between 100-500sq ft in US. That smaller size in NZ is usually a minor dwelling on a site with a larger house.
                 • weka …

                   19 August 2016 at 2:18 pm

                   I think you are missing the point. Don’t look at tiny houses as a percentage of all housing. Look at what it means to the people who live in them. Many of them are middle class couples who know they cannot afford their own home any other way. That’s where the boom is.

                   “I think ‘tiny houses’ are between 100-500sq ft in US. That smaller size in NZ is usually a minor dwelling on a site with a larger house.”

                   What’s your point? The discussion here has been largely about creating something new, that works for certain people and is one part of a multitude of solutions to the housing crisis.

                   ‘Tiny House’ refers to a range of housing, from small fixed dwellings, to container conversions, to houses on trailers, to caravans and housebuses to yurts. In NZ many people have lived in tiny housing when they built their first home. It’s already normal in part of the culture.
                   • dukeofurl …

                     19 August 2016 at 3:58 pm

                     I was just verifying what it means for ‘tiny house’ in US, They are smaller than 500sqft. Are a very small % of new single dwellings, so are a limited appeal. maybe around 1200 per year but hard to find numbers for that size range.
                     But thats fine for those that want them. A more common tiny house in US is their infamous trailer homes.

                     Its a bit like container homes, mostly boutique here, overseas hard to find large scale thats isnt a temporary fix or construction camp.
                     As they say in software , they arent yet a killer app, as I cant see them taking off here or elsewhere.
                   • weka …

                     19 August 2016 at 5:17 pm

                     There is an actual tiny house movement, you seem to be oblivious to.

                     You still haven’t said what you mean by boutique or temporary.

                     No-one is suggesting tiny houses for the masses. You still seem to be largely missing the point.
   • Matthew Whitehead 3.3

     19 August 2016 at 10:21 am

     +1.

     If I were ever looking for my own place I would probably be looking for land to do a double-container conversion. They’re cheap and easy, and mostly just need some insulation, wiring, and basic interior decorating.

     This is precisely the sort of thing the government should consider for emergency and/or affordable housing. Granted, it’s budget housing for sure, and it shows that things are wrong that we have to resort to it, but it’s better than standing by idly.
     • weka 3.3.1

       19 August 2016 at 11:35 am

       I think some people don’t have the experience yet of understanding how tiny housing works well for parts of the population. We’re on a kind of tipping point though. Maybe I should to a post on it.
       • Molly 3.3.1.1

         19 August 2016 at 12:18 pm

         You may want to include a link to Kirsten Dirksen’s Youtube channel if you do.

         A wide variety of alternative housing being put into practice.

         From NZ – Living Big in a Tiny House and Shaye & Tom in the Waitakeres give an example of what can be done to house people with minimal building (but good design) skills.
         • weka 3.3.1.1.1

           19 August 2016 at 12:23 pm

           Thanks Molly! I really enjoy Dirksen’s work. Thanks for the NZ links too. Drop me anymore you come across, and I’ll start saving them for a post.
4. b waghorn 4

   19 August 2016 at 7:58 am

   the Problem with young people today like that builder chap is they expect to start out living in a drive way. I say to you young man lower your sights , I’m sure there is a perfectly suitable sewer somewhere near you
   • esoteric pineapples 4.1

     19 August 2016 at 8:23 am

     Reminds me of this (pre Monty Python version) – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAdlkunflRs
     • b waghorn 4.1.1

       19 August 2016 at 8:39 am

       Just thought I’d get in before right wingers turn up .
       • AB 4.1.1.1

         19 August 2016 at 10:49 am

         I bet the driveway is paved too and he probably gets Sky TV from a reflection in the neighbours’ window. Has he wasted $6.90 for a Whopper (burger only) from BK in the last 18 months when he could have made his own perfectly nutritious burger for less that 29 cents using the car radiator as a cook top ?
         • b waghorn 4.1.1.1.1

           19 August 2016 at 12:39 pm

           He could grow veges in the boot , as he’ll need somewhere to shit ,why waste it.
           • Rae 4.1.1.1.1.1

             20 August 2016 at 8:58 am

             And, to save having to exit the car at night for a pee and to quench your thirst first thing in the morning, there is this http://lifestraw.com/
   • North 4.2

     19 August 2016 at 5:17 pm

     You have me chuckling there Waghorn. Although read it wrong and one could easily think you’re Michelle Boag.

     Wasn’t that long ago the haughty baggage would insist that the main problem was that first home buyers expected to find their first home in Remuera and like areas and wouldn’t settle for less.

     Scandalous bullshit of course but her besties Brian Edwards and the smarmy Mora on The Panel never pulled her up on it……..well maybe Edwards chided her, indulgently, lovingly, but that’s about it. Stephen Mills is the only one I’ve ever heard bite her for it.
     • Rae 4.2.1

       20 August 2016 at 9:00 am

       Biting Michelle Boag could easily result in a hasty, expensive, restorative trip to the dentist
5. dukeofurl 5

   19 August 2016 at 8:52 am

   Guess who was recently slamming the Government Statistician for ‘dodgy figures on Inequality’.

   “”Does he consider it a disgrace that the Minister of Finance stood in this House and said that Statistics New Zealand’s statement that inequality in New Zealand had grown under his watch was statistically invalid – is that a disgrace as well?”- Grant Robertson
   • weka 5.1

     19 August 2016 at 8:56 am

     What does that have to do with the post? Be specific. It looks like garden variety trolling to me.
     • dukeofurl 5.1.1

       19 August 2016 at 9:47 am

       Housing crisis- inequality increases- while Bill English puts his fingers in his ears.
       Just showing how they are deaf to the problems.
     • Muttonbird 5.1.2

       19 August 2016 at 11:03 am

       No weka. I can see what dukeofurl is getting at.

       On the top of inequality the government is happy to dismiss Stats NZ findings when it suits, yet they uphold Stats NZ integrity after the change in the way job figures are announced, again when it suits them.

       Perhaps not specific to this post but then there is often a lot of double up and redundancy in authors’ articles and we common members sometimes find it difficult to know where to put our ideas.
       • weka 5.1.2.1

         19 August 2016 at 11:21 am

         fair enough. Odd to see him criticising the govt that way, I thought it was a lead up to blaming Labour for something.
         • dukeofurl 5.1.2.1.1

           19 August 2016 at 12:01 pm

           Blame labour ?. Not me Im usually stuck supporting the old line labour. Blair Clark, Clinton. etc.
6. jcuknz 6

   19 August 2016 at 8:54 am

   An idea I had awhile ago …. build basic state houses for the small family and then when there is a larger family to house simply truck in a container or two to act as extra bedrooms.
   More recently thinking of how I lived in a motorcamp in my old school bus and used the camp’s showers etc …. instead of a old bus but a well fitted out container? Would be better than how I converted my bus and I survived AOK

   Really Ms Bennett needs to wake up and do something rather than ‘considering the options’ …. but she will not as what right winger reads the common sense to be found here.
   • save nz 6.1

     19 August 2016 at 9:55 am

     You would have thought that the years spent on the unitary plan might have come up with some options to legalise affordable houses, but um no as usual taken over by the usual barristers and lobbyists and careerists on the crony take and special interest groups that fucked it all up by supporting it, when there was never anything to provide immediate solutions to affordable housing. Just wasted a year, a lot of money and media time to get nowhere.
   • Molly 6.2

     19 August 2016 at 12:20 pm

     As a educational project – we did just that. The kids came up with designs that could be added to as the people living in the home changed.

     Not that difficult.
7. save nz 7

   19 August 2016 at 9:59 am

   The other thing about councils and affordable housing, in particular Auckland council, is when people advocate container homes and the like, they go on about ‘quality’, but when ports of Auckland try to steal the harbour or put up a massive high-rise concrete bunker in the city, or some developer builds the worst multi-storey monstrosity that is already a slum, they say, there is nothing the council can do.

   So if seems if you are poor you can’t have your 20m2 dwelling due to quality issues, but if you have millions to build 1000 poor quality shonky apartments, wrecking city amenity, they say no problem, nothing to do with them.
8. s y d 8

   19 August 2016 at 10:41 am

   affordable housing comes down to incomes.
   NZ incomes are pitiful, just ask Albin.
9. keith ross 9

   19 August 2016 at 10:46 am

   There is a charity that converts containers to little houses

   https://www.theguardian.com/housing-network/2013/oct/24/brighton-housing-homeless-shipping-containers

   so it can be done quite quickly and being easy to transport they could be relocated to wherever they are needed. I thought that this was a stupid idea till I started looking into it. We are in a housing crisis and this would not work for everyone, but , it could help with some of the pressure. One thing is for sure no one single idea is going to fix this clusterf##k overnight. It is going to take multiple different ideas and real action to make any real progress on this many headed monster that is housing in NZ.
   • weka 9.1

     19 August 2016 at 11:26 am

     I think the relieving pressure stuff is really important. If we go, oh housing all has to be traditional and like this, but it will take us ten years to build enough, then we are failing.

     I can see tiny homes, converted containers etc being great for single people, couples, solo parents etc. Not ideal, and you wouldn’t want a punitive govt doing it. People have to be able to say actually I couldn’t stand living in a small space with my two kids it would drive me crazy. But for the people that it would work for, great.

     I can also see the potential for people ending up owning the tiny home/container, we should be looking at those schemes.

     People have this idea that tiny homes aren’t real housing, but I can easily see NZ having a rolling stock of such houses, state, council, community, iwi and private, that become a normal part of the culture. They need to be of good standard, but the fact that they are small and transportable is an asset, not a liability eg tiny homes are cheaper to run, you don’t need to own land.
     • jcuknz 9.1.1

       19 August 2016 at 11:33 am

       I do not have a link but awhile back I saw an article about holiday homes using old containers. Not suitable for the couple and three children plus but they are not the only ones in the market by a long way.
     • Wyndham 9.1.2

       19 August 2016 at 12:52 pm

       Judith Collins reckons those containers are just great for packing our prison overflow into.
       • weka 9.1.2.1

         19 August 2016 at 1:21 pm

         Judith Collins should never have another job that involves people’s wellbeing.
         • mosa 9.1.2.1.1

           19 August 2016 at 9:51 pm

           ” Judith Collins should not be involved with peoples wellbeing “Weka that statement applies to the entire cabinet, caucus, and coalition partners.
     • Siobhan 9.1.3

       19 August 2016 at 4:14 pm

       Hi weka…it would be good to see some convincing examples of tiny houses en masse, as most examples I’ve seen are in the Olds back yard or some nice parkland, and as such would not address our current issues of cost of land or urban spread.

       Maybe a better solution would be community group, built and run co op housing. Apartment style, multi story, small, but with extra communal living areas as an extension of peoples private space. I have seen examples of these, online, in both South America and some smaller European countries. They seem to be the only real and future proof solution to our current situation.

       http://commonstransition.org/community-land-trusts-urban-land-reform-and-the-commons/
10. jcuknz 10

    19 August 2016 at 11:29 am

    With lifts rather than stairs I wouldn’t mind living in such a development [ the Brighton story from UK] as a retirement home. Again I say it is a shame people have such negative views holding up a solution.
11. TC 11

    19 August 2016 at 11:35 am

    Wtf is bennett, nasty when cornered with a vindictive track record.

    Opposition should be lining up these placeholder ministers and nailing them. Smiling sammy being off topic but same principles apply.
12. Righty right 12

    19 August 2016 at 11:57 am

    We are almost 9 years into the brighter future /nightmare the basics of life we used to take for granted are disappearing all in the name of greed by the few at the expense of the many our society our economic and social systems are broken as is the social contract God knows how bad the books are I suspect national have looted the place dr
    • TC 12.1

      19 August 2016 at 3:17 pm

      Nobody in opposition seems capable of doing the simple maths of revenue from assets sales V the cavalcade of promises the funds would be used for.

      Tracking that would wake many up to the shell game that their msm shills claim as ‘sound economic management’.
13. Infused 13

    19 August 2016 at 1:11 pm

    Quick everyone: Cast your spells and make houses magically appear!
    • McFlock 13.1

      19 August 2016 at 1:19 pm

      The above was a party political broadcast detailing National’s new housing policy. /sarc
      • weka 13.1.1

        19 August 2016 at 2:21 pm

        Looks like a rought cut and paste from a half hearted Crosby and Textor memo. Ridicule people who want solutions by making out that the solutions are fanciful.
    • righty right 13.2

      20 August 2016 at 5:34 am

      what you can not deny is key and the gang have had 8.5 years thats almost a decade to sort housing out thats not good enough from a government that promised the moon blew 564 billion and has delivered banana republic results dear leaders neck should be on the block since decapitation is touchy at the moment i wont go there
14. Macro 14

    19 August 2016 at 8:34 pm

    Say – has anyone seen John Key? He used to be clowning about all over the media, but he’s gone a bit quiet lately. If anyone knows where he his, could you let him know that the country could use a bit of leadership right now?

    I gather he was relaxing in Parliament the other day – feeling comfortable about something or other. But really he wouldn’t know what leadership was if he fell over it! The sooner the man is gone the better for this country and we can get back to the task of clearing up the sorry mess he will leave behind.
15. mosa 15

    19 August 2016 at 9:17 pm

    Where is Wally…?
    Relax everyone he is alive and lying here in Dunedin doing what he does best posing for selfies and photo shoots too make the front page of the ODT.. a charm offensive !!!
    The BMW crown cars really make an impression and let this old Labour town know that John really does care … at selected good news events for the all important publicity that makes the front page shame the real stories he doesnt want to acknowledge dont… thats what page 23 is for.
    Then its on too Queenstown where he is idolised and then a round of golf and more selfies.
    Mystery solved.
    • b waghorn 15.1

      19 August 2016 at 9:26 pm

      That’s what is meant by rock star economy , every thing goes to shit while key lives like a rock star!
      • righty right 15.1.1

        20 August 2016 at 5:52 am

        in the wondrous dimension of planet key(gated housing developments) where dear leader and the blessed ( elite scum) can play my little pony with out having to look at smelly homeless people
        • North 15.1.1.1

          20 August 2016 at 2:43 pm

          Ouch RR !

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