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Open Mike 20/01/2018

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, January 20th, 2018 - 131 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

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131 comments on “Open Mike 20/01/2018 ”

  1. swordfish 1

    Strike me ! ya Tory Blaggards, Scurvy Cut-throats and Scurrilous Scabs ! … If I aint just posted this provocative little treatise on me very own Blog !!! … Aye !, but not before sailing her to the South Pacific, scuttling her on the seas of high finance.and rowing ashore every last God-forsaken barrel of rum !!!

    Farrar’s Honeymoon Scam

    https://subzpsubzp.blogspot.co.nz/

    Ere’s a heartbreakin’ little quote from me very own Conclusion that pretty well sums up the whole Goddam thing, me Hearties

    Prominent National Party operative David Farrar has very successfully managed to sell the MSM a bogus honeymoon meme. This, in turn, has generated a whole series of negative headlines for the Ardern Coalition … reinforcing, in the process, some of National’s key attack lines around the alleged fragility and illegitimacy of the new Government.

    Least ways, that’s how I sees it, says I.

    • mickysavage 1.1

      Good post. Mind if we cross post these from time to time?

      • swordfish 1.1.1

        No Probs, micky

        Though this particular one is probably slightly out of date (really should’ve finished it weeks ago), not to mention a little overly-long & repetitive

        I need to be just a little more ruthless with my editing

        • Anne 1.1.1.1

          Hey swordfish, how about emailing a ‘condensed’ version of your findings to each of the journalists/columnists named and to Farrar himself of course. I say condensed because I doubt the attention span of some would be sufficient to cover the whole post.

          Excellent job from an excellent pundit.

        • Sacha 1.1.1.2

          Great work. If you want to condense it, can I suggest starting with your section containing the actual figures, then adding the preamble for those who need it. Also maybe explicitly add in NZF figures separately.

          Would be great to see how some journos (don’t) react.

          • Sacha 1.1.1.2.1

            To clarify (now that my caffeine levels have been restored), I mean move the numbers section to the beginning.

            I also believe you may be giving Farrar too much credit for strategic campaigns masterminded and spread by the Nat leader’s office (as we saw with Dirty Politics) to all their party operatives including the penguin and assorted tame hacks.

      • Sanctuary 1.1.2

        You be cross posting that treasure chest, arrrhhh to be sure.

        ummm, why are we talking like pirates?

    • Aaarr matey, ’tis not International Talk Like a Pirate day til September, but Go’bli’me if it ain’t fun anytime.

      Fuck that was a good post. Like the media suckers busy repeating it, I hadn’t imagined that Farrar would just make shit up to that extent. Thanks for putting in the work on it.

      • millsy 1.2.1

        Apparently all pirates, including Arab, Turkish and Chinese pirates spoke with Cornish accents, and the were supposedly all loveable rogues, and not essentially Mongerel Mob prospects on sailing ships.

        • Psycho Milt 1.2.1.1

          I was thinking the last time I saw ITLAP Day advertised that there’s probably a movie many decades ago of Treasure Island with someone hamming it up as Long John Silver, and that’s become the default “pirate” in people’s minds, even for those of us who’ve never seen that movie.

    • Macro 1.3

      Excellent analysis swordfish! Very interesting read. And your analysis of voting preference compared to family income is telling!

    • Pat 1.4

      Nice work…..the length would deter some but none of it superfluous.

      Have you sent a copy to all the ‘journalists’ named?

    • Tuppence Shrewsbury 1.6

      What amazes me about the obsession pundits on left blogs have with Farrara ability to craft media narratives is how it’s all rooted in jealously that no one can do it on the left. Despite all the outrage on twitter he generates

      • McFlock 1.6.1

        In this case, “craft media narratives” is a euphemism for “lying”.

        People on the left can certainly lie. We just try not to, because it’s wrong.

    • Incognito 1.7

      Post-election honeymoons are quite common across the world. It seems to me that David Farrar quite successfully appealed to people’s common sense and wishful thinking, with their other biases filling in the gaps, to concoct and highly plausible storyline, which then gets a life of its own and becomes self-perpetuating, self-reinforcing and sometimes even self-fulfilling …

  2. Ed 2

    There is a welcome, but sadly rare, investigation into the sale of Aotearoa to wealthy foreigners on Stuff this morning. Entitled Half a million hectares sold, it looks into the privatisation of the high country. The introfuction says.

    We’ve paid $65m to get rid of some of our most treasured landscapes, through an obscure process critics have described as a vast wave of privatisation. Wealthy foreigners are snapping up valuable land once owned by the public, who in some cases paid to dispose of it. As gated estates and manicured golf courses spread through our wild places, Charlie Mitchell investigates: Who owns the high country?

    It would be great to see continued follow up to this story in the mainstream media as it is an important story. Murray Horton and the Campaign Against Foreign Control of Aotearoa have for too long run a solo mission to record and struggle against the take over of our country by rich foreign interests. From the key facts page on their website, there are many startling piece of information many New Zealanders will not know. Here is one.

    Foreign investors owned 24% (or $368 billion) of net wealth in New Zealand whose commercial net value totalled $1.5 trillion at March 2015. They owned 27% of private net wealth. This comprised housing, land, other property, plant, equipment and financial assets owned directly or indirectly by households, government, non-profit organisations and foreign investors.

    This is another sad story of how New Zealand was looted and pillaged by neo-liberalism.
    Key politicians should be brought before a people’s court and tried for treason.

    Campaign Against Foreign Control of Aotearoa
    http://canterbury.cyberplace.co.nz/community/CAFCA/

    • bwaghorn 2.1

      you’ll get silence from the labour as they love giving good land to farmers while turning mountain country into weeds and killing of the high country lifestyle in one sweep, the Clark gov went full throttle at tenure review

      • weka 2.1.1

        yeah, but it’s not like farmers weren’t really into it either given they got given huge tracts of public land for really good prices.

        • bwaghorn 2.1.1.1

          i bet they were , they got paid for land that wasn’t theirs got to own top land for cheap then could afford to invest heavily on irrigation etc, and sell for huge capital gain if they wanted, the losers were the rest of us.

          • weka 2.1.1.1.1

            yep. Something just turned up on twitter about this (or more, the net loss to taxpayers), might see if I can get a post up.

      • Pat 2.1.2

        what you say is essentially so although the previous Labour Gov. did belatedly stop the process in 2007…only for Key to reinstate it upon election

        “But not long after the reviews were stopped, the John Key-led National Party came to power, and in 2009 restarted the process.”

        https://interactives.stuff.co.nz/2018/01/half-a-million-hectares-sold/

  3. Ed 3

    An excellent article in Stuff today.

    Kiwis need to realise 100 per cent pure is 100 per cent propaganda.

    This one looks at how Maggy Barry and others pulled the wool over New Zealanders eyes with advertising and thereby put our threatened birdlife even more at risk.

    Of course, if Fairfax cared about this issue, it would be a story front and foremost week in, week out, that would shame governments about our conservation. For 9 long years, under John Key, he was given a free hand by the media to loot and pillage this land for his very wealthy puppeteers.

    Ask Tourism New Zealand what 100% Pure means and they’ll tell you: it’s not a ‘clean, green’ campaign, but a campaign that delivers a “100% Pure New Zealand experience”.
    What it is is 100 per cent pure advertising, and a slogan fit to replace the fertiliser used in the country’s intensive farming.

  4. Ed 4

    The final story from Stuff to catch my eye this morning is titled Are our wine regions at risk?

    John Saker has written an interesting piece which has some connection to the article I referred to about the looting of our high country. His story is about the corporate and foreign takeover of our wine industry.

    He starts by saying

    When I heard last year that Central Otago’s Mount Difficulty had been swallowed up by Foley Family Wines (one of US billionaire Bill Foley’s many companies), I felt a small sadness…….

    He coninues

    The Mount D sale hammered home how New Zealand’s wine-producing profile is being reshaped right now.
    While overseas ownership is on the rise (roughly 40 per cent of the grapes crushed every year are foreign owned), so is the overall corporate share of NZ wine.

    Aotearoa is not for sale.
    Yeah, right.

    • Stunned mullet 4.1

      Great to see the ongoing support for and investment in the NZ wine industry.

      • Ed 4.1.1

        So you didn’t read the article.

        • Stunned mullet 4.1.1.1

          Yes read it earlier today – great to see the ongoing support for and investment in the nz wine industry.

          • In Vino 4.1.1.1.1

            So you call buying the whole thing out and taking the profits overseas “investment”? A bit rose-tinted? Others might call it economic imperialism.

            • stunned mullet 4.1.1.1.1.1

              So the profits are being taken out overseas, no reinvestment into the wine industry in NZ ? I call bullshit on your throwaway buzzwords.

              • In Vino

                You are far too credulous with your rightie-rose-tinted spectacles, Stunned Mullet. Your foreign-owned vinyards that have been ‘reinvested in’ will be paying minimum wages or less, driving our country ever-deeper into the disastrous low-wage economy zone, while the vast majority of benefits go overseas. Your beloved policies will turn us into third-world tenants in our own country. Look to globalist right-wingers for throwaway buzzwords like ‘increased prosperity for all’.

                • stunned mullet

                  Any link for the Foley Family Wines group paying minimum wage to their employees ?

                  Any link for the majority of benefits going overseas ?

                  Do you expect all of these wineries to stay in the original owners hands for ever ?

                  Good grief before you start bemoaning all and sundry why don’t you ask employees at the actual wineries in question how they are treated and the unions that represent them and then perhaps try to get some input from the senior people in the wine industry in NZ before going straight to the ‘overseas investment is bad mkay’.

                  • Ad

                    We’re not going to get rich unless we own the business

                    • Stunned mullet

                      So we’re nationalising the wine industry now ?

                      Bizarre notion but I’m willing to listen to the argument.

                    • Ad

                      Nope not proposing nationalizing anything let alone the wine industry.

                      It’s pretty simple:
                      We will stay a low-wage and low-innovation economy unless we own the businesses.

                    • Stunned Mullet

                      Who’s ‘we’.

                    • Ad

                      “We” of New Zealand.

                    • Stunned Mullet

                      ah OK understood.

                      But assuming that the new owner/s still employs, produces, sells, exports and the business resides in NZ for tax purposes surely there’s no net difference to the ‘riches’ or lack thereof for the ‘we’.

                    • Ad

                      Big assumptions that have not been borne out over NZ history, in all categories you mention.

                      But to be kind to you, let’s go with all of them.

                      There are many smart New Zealanders who raise up a business out of nothing, and risk everything absolutely everything they have to do it, then in time sell.

                      Some of those who cash up reinvest in other businesses. And good on them.

                      But too many cash up in New Zealand.

                      The net effect is the businesses stay very small within NZ, or are subsumed. Wealth doesn’t grow, and is too highly concentrated.

                      Whereas what New Zealand needs more of is ambitious owners who are not satisfied, are prepared to form and protect a brand, don’t cash out, grow a business requiring more local shareholders, forming a broader pool of those who get the real money: profit in the form of dividends.

                      Neither National nor Labour have been able to support that over two decades.

                      So instead we have the pathetic necessity of the government having to shore up low wages with Working For Families increases. Which IMHO is no way to run a successful economy. And not enough rich people. And too many wage slaves. And of course far too many poor children.

                    • stunned mullet

                      Ok understand your position and I agree with much of what you say to a large extent – but from what I understand in this particular case the group who bought this vineyard and other vineyards in their group have taken private smallish vineyards and maintained the NZ flavour, workforce and managment and are reinvesting in the vineyards and have also allowed public investment.

                      We also have the perverse situation when individuals do just as you say – I’m thinking of people like George Fistonich of Villa Maria wines they’ll be accused by many commenters here of being rich pricks, 1%’rs etc etc.

                    • halfcrown

                      Stunned @1.30pm wrote,

                      “Bizarre notion”

                      Let’s face it Stunned, anything for the benefit of the general populace of New Zealander and not foreign owners or governments is bizarre to the right isn’t it mate.

            • Psycho Milt 4.1.1.1.1.2

              Yes, seriously, right-wingers call that “investment.” The theory is that the guys the foreigners bought out will now spend that money on growing new NZ businesses, rather than taking an extended overseas vacation and buying some property and a new boat. Theory may not of course be born out in practice.

              • Ed

                And sending the profits to the Caymans

              • …rather than taking an extended overseas vacation and buying some property and a new boat.

                And when that happens they say that it’s really great that the rich person has created some jobs while completely ignoring the fact that many more jobs have been lost and that the wages paid are going down.

                • stunned mullet

                  I though you and Ed were anti anything to do with alcohol are you now arguing for more local owners and growth. ?

                  Do you have any evidence of many jobs have being lost and the wages paid are going down in this case ?

    • NZ has been for sale, against the wishes of the people, since the neo-liberal implementation by the 4th Labour Government. And Labour still refuses to listen to the people and listens to the ideologues instead.

      • cleangreen 4.2.1

        100% Draco,

        All these folks who are buying up NZ horticulture are not stupid.

        They know the god profits they get here can be milked and extracted from this country with out any ‘real’ taxing of profit.

        We the taxpayer of NZ are being milked for all its worth to these overseas “investors” they are in it for profits not to ‘enrich us all here on our very low wage economy.

        Wine industry uses massive levels of water irrigation also, so folks need to remember the cost to our economy here too.

  5. Grey Area 5

    Can someone tell me what the vertical X box thing means please.

    • Grey Area 5.1

      This might be a bit cryptic. I’m referring to the framed X symbol used occasionally by posters on The Standard.

      • weka 5.1.1

        Still a bit cryptic I’m afraid. Can you link to an example?

        • Grey Area 5.1.1.1

          😳

          I’ve tracked the issue down. I usually access The Standard through an Opera browser on my phone.

          I found one of the boxed Xs on my phone and navigated to the same post on my PC and found a smiley face. I went through the generic browser on my phone to find, the same smiley face.

          So it seems to be a mobile Opera issue where it presents “smiley faces” as a small vertical box with a X in it.

          Phew! I thought people had secret language you have to be “in” to use more advanced than smiley faces. 😀

          • weka 5.1.1.1.1

            heh, there are a few geeks around who occasionally do some things with comments the rest of us can’t. Glad you got it sorted.

  6. Ed 6

    Clean green New Zealand.
    100 % pure.
    Yeah right.

    Don’t swim on the Kapiti Coast this weekend.

    • cleangreen 6.1

      I used to know a time when we all had a clean green country when the population was half what it is now at around 2.4 Million.

      I am sad at 74 yrs old how our beautiful country has now suffered so badly.

  7. Cinny 7

    It’s really scary when one is driving up the valley and a campervan is in front of you driving on the wrong side of a straight piece of road while approaching a blind corner.

    Flashed my lights and leaned on the horn flat out, he pulled over (on the wrong side), I indicated to his Mrs to roll down the window, called out (nicely) that we drive on the left in NZ, they responded with a friendly wave, then seconds later a car towing a trailer came around the blind corner.

    Something needs to be done about educating overseas visitors about our road rules. A big bright sticker on the dash reading keep left would be a good start. Not much scares me, but that sure did.

    • weka 7.1

      +1

      A sticker is a good idea.

    • Rosemary McDonald 7.2

      Cinny…if it was a rental campevan…get the rego and phone the rental company and kick up the appropriate amount of shit. Give them dates. times, location. They will have the renter’s cellphone number on record and will contact them…I understand threats/gentle reminders ensue. I have done this…

      OTOH…having traveled hither and thither, on and off the tarseal, to all corners of the Rohe I’d safely bet that the predominant centre -line crossers are locals.

      And…the more off road capable the vehicle looks, the more likely it is to be over the centre line avoiding the rough on the edge of the road.

      Humans.

      • Cinny 7.2.1

        Will do if it happens again, was so flabbergasted at the time I didn’t think about it. Good advice.

        Locals are centre line crosses especially up the valley with the narrow roads (me included), blind corners being the exception, but dang, driving on the wrong side, that’s a def not a local thing.

        • weka 7.2.1.1

          I once hitchhiked in a camper van where the driver took photos of the river while driving over a one lane bridge. Not stopping, but actually driving, camera up to the face kind of thing. I guess the rails would have stopped us going over, but a big drop if we did.

      • weka 7.2.2

        Good idea about the photos/contacting.

        Apparently insurance records show most accidents are caused by locals (proportionally). But I do think that there is a thing whereby if someone is used to driving on the right and they get into a fast moving situation their body memory is going to have to be overridden to prevent them from doing the wrong things. That combined with being on holiday is not a good mix.

        And yep, locals who drive too fast or have vehicles that make them feel bullet proof, definitely an issue too.

    • joe90 7.3

      Rentals have all sorts of keep left reminders splashed over the steering wheel/dash/instrument panel.

      https://resources.stuff.co.nz/content/dam/images/1/n/e/c/3/a/image.related.StuffLandscapeSixteenByNine.620×349.1ncazw.png/1513055027503.jpg

    • Something needs to be done about educating overseas visitors about our road rules.

      Forget the educating – just don’t let them drive.

      • Rosemary McDonald 7.4.1

        “Forget the educating – just don’t let them drive.”

        Today I’m cleaning up our 22 year old honda odyssey (with 275,000 ks on the clock) with the view to sell to the highest bidder. As a trade in…$500-1000 if we smile very nicely to a dealer. Advertise in the backpacker car arena and these wee 4 wheel drive puppies can go for at least $2000 with a current wof and rego.

        We really need the $$$, so a sale to an young overseas driver is on the cards…and this doesn’t particularly worry me, as unsurprisingly the younger foreign travelers have much less of a problem adapting to driving on the left.

        And they tend to drive these smaller, older vehicles.

        The real problem, and I’m betting again, lies with the older drivers….30 years and up…who simply forget, or revert to drive right when stressed.

        And these older overseas travelers are the ones who can afford to rent larger campervans or newer, higher powered cars.

        (Hopefully I’ll get the opportunity to do a bit of driver and camper education when we sell….)

        • patricia bremner 7.4.1.1

          Good luck Rosemary.

        • Grey Area 7.4.1.2

          I think the problem is bit deeper than that Rosemary.

          From my own experience we spent three months driving around Europe on the right (in our mid-20s) without a mishap or scare. Except for driving the wrong way down a one-way street in Delft but that had nothing to do with being on any side of the road!

          Three decades later we spent some days driving in Italy and a week driving in Spain again with no mishaps. Got tooted at in Italy once and Spain once because in two situations I wasn’t sure who had right of way. We may have had one occasion where I started off on the wrong side after a stop but luckily my wife was alert.

          So older people can drive safely in foreign lands as well as younger folk. But I think we were okay because at every stage we were very aware we were in somone else’s country and needed to follow their rules and wanted desparately not to have an embarassing crash and injure anyone.

          In other words we were sh*t scared of doing anything wrong.

          I think many of our tourists just don’t seem to give a sh*t. (Or they do but it’s by dumping in scenic places but that’s another story as we know).

          I think we’re dealing with a shift in a whole lot of values, lack of empathy and responsibility, a sense of entitlement etc, that we thought were shared, but now aren’t.

      • Grey Area 7.4.2

        Forget the educating – just don’t let them drive.

        Love it! Problem solved.

        • KJT 7.4.2.1

          All the New Zealanders I see crossing the centreline and passing, on blind corners.
          Confiscate their car. Problem solved.

    • James 7.5

      It’s not just overseas drivers who do this – there is a poster on here who admits to doing it on purpose. To avoid the possibility of a filling rock from memory.

  8. joe90 8

    Finally, one rag gets it right about Trump’s physical.

    https://archive.li/1dPRU/7540e78381f56da637c0ab6aaa6569948c74231e.png

  9. Bill 9

    On shit-holes 🙂

  10. joe90 10

    More than 677,000 users interacted with 50,000 supposedly Russian linked accounts tweeting the same message about the election at roughly the same time,

    But it’s all a big nothing.

    /

    Consistent with our commitment to transparency, we are emailing notifications to 677,775 people in the United States who followed one of these accounts or retweeted or liked a Tweet from these accounts during the election period. Because we have already suspended these accounts, the relevant content on Twitter is no longer publicly available.

    […]

    We have also provided Congress with the results of our supplemental analysis into activity believed to be automated, election-related activity originating out of Russia during the election period. Through our supplemental analysis, we have identified 13,512 additional accounts, for a total of 50,258 automated accounts that we identified as Russian-linked and Tweeting election-related content during the election period, representing approximately two one-hundredths of a percent (0.016%) of the total accounts on Twitter at the time. However any such activity represents a challenge to democratic societies everywhere, and we’re committed to continuing to work on this important issue.

    https://blog.twitter.com/official/en_us/topics/company/2018/2016-election-update.html

    • adam 10.1

      How about we work on what we agree on – that trump is bad for working people. Rather than go with this divisive approach.

      The Russian elites are as bad as the U.S elites. So let’s leave this stuff to investigators and wonks, and get on with helping our friends in the US fight this anti-work racist puke.

  11. joe90 11

    Oh fuck, this makes me sad.

    MORE: Coroner's office says specific cause of Petty's accidental death was "multisystem organ failure due to resuscitated cardiopulmonary arrest due to mixed drug toxicity (fentanyl, oxycodone, temazepam, alprazolam, citalopram, acetylfentanyl, and despropionyl fentanyl).— NBC News (@NBCNews) January 20, 2018

    https://www.nbcnews.com/pop-culture/music/tom-petty-died-accidental-drug-overdose-coroner-family-say-n839381

    • alwyn 11.1

      As a fan of his work I am also sad.
      However how on earth can anyone call that “accidental drug overdose”?
      How did he get hold of all those drugs? And why was he taking such a lethal cocktail? Didn’t anyone vet them or care what he was ingesting?

      • Macro 11.1.2

        Am also a great fan and was very sad to hear of his death. But just as an aside as to the lethal cocktail of drugs and noting that he was suffering from a number of ailments..
        I was in hospital for a couple of weeks recently following an accident and while there a man was admitted to our orthopaedic ward as there no beds left in the medical wards in a very bad state. He was on 29! different medications. All prescribed by his doctor, and administered to him by his wife a nurse who worked at the hospital. The first task was to wean him of all those medications monitoring his BP and and heart rates etc until he was stabilized.
        But really – one would think that health professionals would know that mixing medications can have serious side effects.

        • McFlock 11.1.2.1

          They should, but it’s rich person and performance medicine combined. Michael Jackson was similar, and then there’s sports team doctors.

          I was on a course with a bunch of folks about ten years back, and one of the others was an ER doctor. Some of the others asked if he was into sports medicine (because they were sporty) and his response was that he couldn’t do that to people. Had a sports figure turn up in ER with massive rectal bleeding because the team doctor had the player on antiinflammatories at high doses for so long that it bust his guts.

          When physical performance goals conflict with the health of the patient, the person paying the cheque will usually find someone willing to try to balance that conflict in favour of performance and hope the patient doesn’t fall off the surfboard.

          • Macro 11.1.2.1.1

            But 29 different pills! the poor guy was swallowing something different almost ever other hour! He was at deaths door when they admitted him.
            My daughter had an experience a while back with an antibiotic and something else which I cant remember. She was getting much worse rather than better so I looked up the two prescriptions on line to see that there could be a reaction between them. I rang our doctor to see which she should cease. Ooops yes you are right! Dropping off the second medication had almost immediate positive results.

            • McFlock 11.1.2.1.1.1

              Yeah, it can be difficult enough looking for conflicts with just a few meds.

              But when you get chronic pain, that gives a combo of slow release and maybe something to have at really bad times. Then you have surgeries on top, and the pit crew who managed the surgery might not have coordinated with the GP about who’s prescribing what. And then you have one that’s kind of the same as the other but not as good, but it does let/help you sleep, so that’s for night time. And if he was on the road and saw local docs, there’d be no coordination at all.

              Shouldn’t have bloody happened.

              • Rosemary McDonald

                Y”eah, it can be difficult enough looking for conflicts with just a few meds.?

                Shouldn’t be.

                You’ll find a copy of this…

                http://www.mims.co.nz/MIMSNewEthicals.aspx

                …on most hospital wards and medical centres.

                Ask to borrow a copy and look shit up.

                if you do find clashes or contra-indications that the doc has missed…say something…unless the doc has an ego problem you’ll be thanked.

                It is imperative that people do their own research, double check, get second opinions and if you feel that the medical staff are not on to it…kick up bobsey…

                When y’all having nothing better to do, spend a wee time here…

                http://www.hdc.org.nz/decisions–case-notes/commissioner's-decisions

                • adam

                  You really do need to be your own advocate, and learn what your on. Especially if you have or develop a chronic condition.

                  I would like to endorse Rosemary McDonalds comments and encourage people to look stuff up. New Ethicals is in plan(ish) english, a major plus by health advocates has been to get the medical profession to supply information in plan english. It’s no longer a hidden language.

                  If you do an internet search, check the source , check it’s peer reviewed, and check it’s legitimate – because there is still some idiots pushing ill informed quackery out there.

  12. Morrissey 12

    The Wellington Phoenix is a soccer team, isn’t it?
    Someone at RNZ National doesn’t seem to realize.

    RNZ National news, 5 p.m., Saturday 20 January 2018

    Last item on the sports news in today’s bulletin was this surprising announcement:

    …. and the Wellington Phoenix will play the Newcastle Jets tonight in an Australian Football League match, beginning at 9:30.

    I’m sure I’m not the only one to be astonished that the Phoenix, and also by the sound of it, the Newcastle Jets, have abandoned the A-League and started playing in the Australian Football League.

    What makes it more surprising is that the Australian Football League doesn’t start its 2018 season for another couple of months.

    Radio New Zealand National: does NOT sound like us.

  13. Stunned Mullet 13

    The Hyundai A league identify themselves as a football league but feel free to revel in your pedantry if it makes you feel better.

    • Morrissey 13.1

      The Hyundai A league identify themselves [sic] as a football league

      It’s a football league just like Super Rugby is, and just like the AFL is. But it’s known as a soccer league, and that’s what Australians call it. It doesn’t call itself the Australian Football League because that name has already been taken by what used to be the Victorian Football League.

      ….but feel free to revel in your pedantry if it makes you feel better.

      Pedantry? Is the A-League the AFL or is it not? Try to be honest, now.

      • McFlock 13.1.2

        Actually, it’s mostly the yanks who tried to call football “soccer”. NZ and aus followed, but now we’re going with what the rest of the world calls it.

        Yes, it can cause confusion, but if you’re going to play football then don’t use your bloody hands.

        • Morrissey 13.1.2.1

          Actually, it’s mostly the yanks who tried to call football “soccer”.

          It’s an English term, and it was used to distinguish Association football (codified in 1863) from Rugby football (codified in 1871). And the “Yanks” don’t try to call it soccer, they do call it soccer.

          NZ and aus followed,

          Along with Canada, Japan, Korea, and a good deal of the rest of the world.

          but now we’re going with what the rest of the world calls it.

          The rest of the world calls it soccer. Where there’s any doubt, it’s called soccer. When people like your good self scold others for using the word “soccer”, you’re simply following a directive from Sepp Blatter to stop calling it soccer and always call it football.

          Yes, it can cause confusion, but if you’re going to play football then don’t use your bloody hands.

          Goalkeepers? Heading? Throwing the ball in from touch? No kind of football is purely played with the feet.

          • McFlock 13.1.2.1.1

            Any other types of “football” where touching the ball with your hand is a foul?

            Sure, other places also call football “soccer”. But the official name is football, always has been. It was founded as the “football association”, not a fucking soccer association.

            Whatever, dude. If you want to follow american cultural norms, that’s your business.

            • Morrissey 13.1.2.1.1.1

              In rugby football, you cannot move the ball forward except by kicking it. It’s football.

              • McFlock

                Most of the forward movement is picking it up and carrying it, no? And they have that weird group hug thing too.

                It’s “cuddleball”.

                • Morrissey

                  Most of the forward movement is picking it up and carrying it, no?

                  No. There is only one way to propel the ball forward: that is to kick it. Yes it can be carried, too, but unlike in American football or rugby league, the kick is ever an option.

                  It’s “cuddleball”.

                  Unwittingly, perhaps, you’ve imitated perfectly the sneering putdowns of soccer that used to be so dire in this country, and that still, thanks to halfwits like Max Kellerman and Michelle Beadle on ESPN, are rife in the United States.

                  • McFlock

                    lol

                    So how is a try scored again?

                    • Morrissey

                      And how’s a drop-goal scored exactly?

                      Word of advice, buddy: drop the “lol” habit. It does as much for your credibility as your assertion that “the yanks” invented the word “soccer.”

                    • McFlock

                      Drop goal. Is that the one where they hold it in their hands, then dropkick it?

                      The only type of scoring in rugby that doesn’t involve hands in some way is when literally everyone else stops playing and watches one dude kick.

                      There’s only one player in football who can hold the ball when the game is actually progressing and the ball is in the bounds of the game. And even then the space in which that is legal is heavily restricted. Even a football tackle is done with the feet.

                      and, lol, I ain’t you’re buddy, guy.

                    • Morrissey

                      Drop goal. Is that the one where they hold it in their hands, then dropkick it?

                      At last he shows some knowledge of football! Well done!

                      The only type of scoring in rugby that doesn’t involve hands in some way is when literally everyone else stops playing and watches one dude kick.

                      Fair point. Like soccer, hands are also used in rugby football. You’re onto it!

                      There’s only one player in football who can hold the ball when the game is actually progressing and the ball is in the bounds of the game.

                      Wrong. Any and all thirty players in football can hold the ball when the game is actually in progress.

                      And even then the space in which that is legal is heavily restricted.

                      In soccer, when the goalkeeper has the ball in his hands he can’t be shouldered or touched in any way. He’s protected absolutely, in the same way a kicker is in the NFL. (Now THERE’s a game which should not be called football; I wonder if you’re making a similar quixotic effort to police the language of Americans. Have you tried signing on to Deadspin?)

                      Even a football tackle is done with the feet.

                      Yes, when the ball is being dribbled, it is. But unfortunately, dribbling is almost always stymied because the laws of the game allow an opponent to dive on the ball and kill it—just like the goalkeeper does in association football.

                      and, lol, I ain’t you’re buddy, guy.

                      I told you before about “lol”. You haven’t got enough cred. to carry that off without coming across as a fool.

                    • McFlock

                      So to recap, the game you call football is primarily played with the hands holding the ball, and the game primarily played with the feet controlling the ball should not be called football.

                      In football, the ball is not merely dribbled – it is passed forward and back, and intercepted solely with the feet. Not in rugby (sorry, “cuddleball”).

                      lol

                      The fool invokes foolishness.

            • KJT 13.1.2.1.1.2

              Been called “Soccer” in New Zealand for over fifty years that I know of. Since I played it as a five year old.
              Of course, if you want to be the language police?

              • McFlock

                no shortage of recruits to the force in this thread…

                • KJT

                  You can singlehandedly try to change the long used, and standard NZ word “Soccer” if you wish. Good luck with that.

              • KJT

                And Rugby was “Rugby” or “footy”.

                “Football”is the anachronism in New Zealand .

                • Morrissey

                  What are you smoking, KJT? Only morons like Tony Veitch use that infantile word. It’s called “rugby” or “football”. It’s almost never called “rugby union”, “rugger” or “union”. And, as already mentioned, only the doltish and the puerile use the infantile “footy.”

    • Macro 13.2

      Yeah – but what can you expect from Aussies!
      Anyway they have 4 different types of “Footie” – just as well the American game hasn’t caught on there – so it can all be a bit confusing

  14. eco maori 14

    The sandflys were swarming to day. They had 3 plays going at the same time lol like water off a ducks back. I could have gone for a check mate today but that risked a confrontation and they will minupulat that situation to what ever story they could dream up. Eco Maori say at least they won’t be harresing our Mokos and locking them up while they are pissing in the wind trying to play Me.
    I think they should pay me with the crime rates in OUR beautiful COUNTRY NZ drop because of the ECO MAORI effect ie informaing the people about the realitys of the justice system of NZ and the west. Ana to kai

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