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Open mike 20/06/2020

Written By: - Date published: 6:03 am, June 20th, 2020 - 104 comments
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104 comments on “Open mike 20/06/2020 ”

  1. Cinny 1

    World refugee day heart

  2. mac1 2

    I think a fair-minded person with a care for truth and honesty in language use has to have some concern about the grossly exaggerated headlines seen recently.

    "From hero to zero" went one, more involved with bad rhyming than an engagement with truth. Bloomfield’s credibility, status, mana is now non-existent?

    Now we have this. "Heads have to roll over border catastrophe, but whose head should it be?"

    Catastrophe? Really? Come on, journos. I know selling news is more difficult nowadays, but now we'll have to find a new word to describe a sudden disaster because 'catastrophe' has been demeaned.

    You want me to believe you? Don't exaggerate. Be truthful, factual, reasoned, honest, uncompromised. (I’d accept near catastrophe, possible catastrophe, potential catastrophe but there must be that qualifier…)

    Please. We need you to be so.

    • Agreed mac1….I have heard RNZ call the Covid 19 border operations a "debacle, catastrophe and shambles" while it is nothing of the sort. There appears to be an agenda here….

      A few isolated incidents and one major cock-up (aided by the Nats Chris Bishop-the media should be finding out who his friend is in the UK that asked him to help the 2 UK women escape quarantine and what was actually said by Bishop to border authorities.His often-reported claim that he was "helping constituents" is obviously bollocks, and why did one of the women lie about her symptoms?) is not a shambles.

      The current situation seems to be that widespread testing has revealed no outbreak at all and border checks caught a third case in a manner that showed it was working effectively.

      • dv 2.1.1

        RNZ meant to say

        THE REPORTING BY THE MEDIA

        of Covid 19 border operations is a "debacle, catastrophe and shambles

      • mpledger 2.1.2

        I heard along the grapevine that she had asthma (totally unverified). My uncle who grew up in NZ hardly every comes back because coming here really screws with his asthma. Maybe she thought it was the transition to NZ that was aggravating her asthma (on top of family stress) rather than covid-19.

    • Treetop 2.2

      The only way to stop Covid-19 is to close the border and this is not going to happen for a lot of reasons due to people having rights and for economic reasons.

      Perhaps the media can tell me how to prevent Covid-19 from entering the country without closing the border?

    • ianmac 2.3

      Reading the Press today Mac1, I was surprised at the mellow tone. Even the Editorial and 4 of the "journalists" had a "lets keep this in perspective" tone. Yet over the previous few days the Press "journalists" were in full "disaster/shambles/heads must roll" persuasion, and sickening.

      And to think that 61,000 + NZers have been helped to return at a cost of $80million, and this slip up is the worst? Hells bells! 3,000 more are expected next week and there is always a risk.

      Reports of Nurses on quarantine duty being abused and sent home in tears by rude uncooperative "inmates" makes you wonder just how ungrateful some people are.

      • mac1 2.3.1

        Yes, Ian, I read the Press editorial after I wrote my piece above, and noted the backing off in the editorial as it wrote of the hero to zero meme.

        But use of catastrophe continued in the article, not just in the headline. It was not only the headline-hunting sub-editor; it was there in the text.

        We had a word at school for this- 'piffle', said with a puff of the breath and a flick of the hand.

        The same reaction as these ingrate ‘inmates’ deserve in quarantine. Pfffft!

        • ianmac 2.3.1.1

          Decades since I heard "piffle" being used. But some "journalists" do write piffle.

          • gsays 2.3.1.1.1

            We can add devastated to the list of over-used hyperbole.

            • Anne 2.3.1.1.1.1

              There's a whole generation of young people who wallow in hyperbole. In the process some of the best words in the English language have been thoroughly demeaned. Awesome is a case in point. I hate to think where a lot of these youngsters are going to be with their lives when they hit their 40s and 50s.

              A right emotional mess methinks.

      • adam 2.3.2

        Because they only have to run with the nut bar hard right loony lines for a few days to shift voters. Then they go go back to 'fair and balanced, then everyone forgets the mad irrational bullshit the MSM in this country spin on a all to regular basis.

        This is right out of the play book of Cambridge Analytic – but who even wants to think about strategies and fear tactics at this stage of an election. Let alone having to cope with the fact the far right own the media landscape.

  3. AB 3

    Probably a mishmash of reasons for this:

    • hyperbole is more likely to sell (as you say)
    • the linguistic impoverishment of the 'journos' involved – they are just bad writers
    • not enough time for them to think properly and produce something considered and original, rather than just reproduce the simplest emotional responses
    • many of the journos are not much more than ideological workers – labourers in the National Party's vineyard of ideas – their most urgent responsibility currently is to keep Todd in the game.
    • woodart 3.1

      I think the quest for clicks has generated so many outrageous headlines, that it has become self defeating. like being faced with a zealot on the street carrying an end of the world sign, most normal people now ignore the outlandish headlines as being the cries for attention by fools. I do wonder if the herald is finally figuring this out. clowns like hosking and his partner, do their cause no good with stupid headlines. clear thinking people give them a wide berth, so they end up with a smaller and smaller audience of rusted on acolytes.

      • I Feel Love 3.1.1

        I agree, when I saw the "Hero to Zero" headline I just assumed "beat up" & couldn't be bothered reading.

        • Bearded Git 3.1.1.1

          Oddly the article headed "Hero to Zero" was reasonably fair. This makes one wonder who in the organisation ordered the beat-up headline.

          • Adrian 3.1.1.1.1

            I think the proof-reading and headline writing for our 2 main newsprint outfits has been contracted out to Australian entities in a bid to save money, my understanding is that this happened quite some years ago. I would like someone to confirm or deny this.

  4. Sacha 4

    Catnip. Bolton's new book describes Chump's behaviour around Russian election interference. https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2020/06/john-bolton-provides-a-harrowing-portrait-of-trumps-surrender-to-putin/

    This is the public posture Trump has taken since the 2016 election and through his years in the White House. He has downplayed or dismissed the Russian attack, even though the US intelligence community has concluded it occurred and was mounted by Vladimir Putin in part to help Trump win.

    (A recent Senate Intelligence Committee report cited an intelligence intercept of a communication from a Russian cyber-operative who described Election Night this way:

    “On November 9, 2016, a sleepless night was ahead of us. And when around 8 a.m. the most important result of our work arrived, we uncorked a tiny bottle of champagne…took one gulp each and looked into each other’s eyes…We uttered almost in unison: ‘We made America great.'”)

    Still, even in the privacy of the Oval Office, Trump would not discuss with his top national security aide the Russian intervention—or, worse, the prospect of a repeat performance.

    “Trump believed that acknowledging Russia’s meddling in US politics, or in that of many other countries in Europe and elsewhere, would implicitly acknowledge that he had colluded with Russia in his 2016 campaign,” Bolton writes.

    • Andre 4.1

      Bolton may indeed be providing some interesting reading right now. But he's still among the frontrunners for the title of most odious swampthing to ever work in Washington. Even considering the strong run being made by the Mango Moronavirus.

      The fucker refused to front up to testify when it might have a difference to the country late last year and earlier this year, even hiring lawyers to shield himself from doing that. It's now clear that was just a play to protect his personal potential book profits.

      By all means, get the details from his book. Preferably by reading other reports of the contents, not by buying the book which might put money in his pockets. But remember, it's not evidence for rehabilitation of Bolton's reputation. Much more the opposite, in fact.

      • Sacha 4.1.1

        That's the idea, yes.

        • ianmac 4.1.1.1

          After Dirty Tricks was published some National supporters refused to read it because the information was stolen. Suppose Whistle Blowers should be ignored?

          • Sacha 4.1.1.1.1

            I doubt anyone is calling Bolton that.

            • ianmac 4.1.1.1.1.1

              Just think that Trump supporters would do the same. "If I don't read it then it didn't happen."

              • Andre

                The difference is that Bolton was a very highly regarded Repug in very good standing with the party and the conservative side of US politics in general. So it's kinda like if Dirty Politics had been written and published by some Nat eminence grise like say Wayne Eagleson or Peter Goodfellow

          • Anne 4.1.1.1.2

            That's what they said but the truth was… they didn't want to know the truth.

            They were the same people who happily ignored the fact Cameron Slater and crew got into the back end of Labour's computer system and stole membership lists which included personal details.

    • adam 4.2

      Bolton is a war criminal who should be rotting in a jail deep in the swamps of Alabama.

  5. joe90 5

    But not before the vile excuse for a human pissed and moaned about food-insecure children being fed during a pandemic.

    Katie Hopkins has had her Twitter account permanently banned for “hateful conduct”, the social media giant has confirmed.

    The former reality TV star-turned-far right commentator has a long history of pro-Trump, pro-Brexit and anti-immigration views, and had more than one million followers on the platform.

    https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/katie-hopkins-account-permanently-suspended_uk_5eece139c5b6e9623c8179bf?

  6. Sacha 6

    Taken before this week's facial egging: https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/300038718/kiwis-feeling-jacindamania-in-new-poll-while-national-faces-mullermehtum

    The poll, by Horizon Research, asked voters who was best placed to manage the pandemic response.

    Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern was ahead on 66 per cent, well in front of Opposition leader Todd Muller who polled 14 per cent.

    ACT leader David Seymour came next, polling 4 per cent.

    Deputy Prime Minister Winston Peters scored 3 per cent, while Green co-leaders James Shaw and Marama Davidson each scored 1 per cent.

    When broken down, all demographics except those with a household income above $200,000 and those who gave their party vote to the Conservative Party in 2017 rate Ardern as the best leader to manage the response.

  7. joe90 7

    'Murica.

    Jackson Hospital pulmonologist William Saliski cleared his throat as he started describing the dire situation created by the coronavirus pandemic in Montgomery to its City Council before they voted on a mandatory mask ordinance. "It's been a long day, I apologize," he said.

    "The units are full with critically-ill COVID patients," Saliski said. About 90% of them are Black. He said hospitals are able to manage for now, but it's not sustainable. "This mask slows that down, 95% protection from something as easy as cloth. … If this continues the way it's going, we will be overrun."

    […]

    Instead, the council killed the ordinance after it failed to pass in a 4-4 tie, mostly along racial lines, with Councilman Tracy Larkin absent. Councilman Clay McInnis voted with three Black council members — Calhoun, Oronde Mitchell and Audrey Graham — in favor of the ordinance. Lyons, Charles Jinright, Richard Bollinger and Glen Pruitt voted against it.

    https://www.montgomeryadvertiser.com/story/news/2020/06/16/montgomery-council-votes-down-mask-ordinance-doctors-disgust/3203300001/

  8. Rosemary McDonald 8

    Two more positive tests. Couple from India. Asymptomatic. Day 12 test. All others at the isolation facility to be tested.

    Hmmm…how long before we test arrivals at the airport and process accordingly?

    • Sacha 8.1

      Testing on Day 1 might encourage less rigour in handling isolation of travellers. Too many early negative tests. Better to act as if everyone is infectious.

      • Rosemary McDonald 8.1.1

        Better to act as if everyone is infectious.

        Some of us have been saying just that since this thing kicked off back at the end of January.

        But no, no. Uncle Ashley held the line that PPE were not needed (by homecare workers and clients) unless there was a positive test. And those with no symptoms are still struggling to get tested.

        FFS. Are we taking this virus seriously or not?

        • anker 8.1.1.1

          I have read that the optimal day to test is day 3. Testing at the airport too early.

          Social distancing all the way through the 14 day isolation is essential. Tests a good backup

          • Stunned Mullet 8.1.1.1.1

            I have read that the optimal day to test is day 3. Testing at the airport too early.

            I suspect you have misunderstood what you have read. Positivity upon testing is related to time after infection. A test on day 1 into NZ is likely to be as useful as a test of day 3. Regardless the most important issue is ensuring those entering at the border don't infect anyone that they have travelled into NZ with and even more critically that once they have arrived they are able to infect anyone in NZ.

          • McFlock 8.1.1.1.2

            Testing at the border wouldn't pick up people who caught it on the plane, but it would probably pick up the folks who infected the people on the plane. So the entire plane can go into tighter quarantine than the basic isolation.

            Then towards the end of iso, people can be tested again as a final confirmation.

        • Ffloyd 8.1.1.2

          Are they all reading from the same thesaurus?

      • observer 8.1.2

        Let's have more negative tests on day 1 or 3 so more people with the virus can go to funerals. [/sarc]

        That is literally what Chris Bishop wanted, let's not forget. He assumed they had been tested and the test was negative. They should have been tested (he was right about that) but he assumed an incubation period of 5 days.

        After months of being told how long the incubation period is, that does not suggest National are competent to make decisions for anyone, never mind the whole country.

        • aj 8.1.2.1

          That is literally what Chris Bishop wanted, let's not forget. He assumed they had been tested and the test was negative. They should have been tested (he was right about that) but he assumed an incubation period of 5 days.

          Remember their recent leader leader wouldn't take Bloomfield's word about the life-cycle of this disease (epidemic committee) so don't expect too much intellect from National.

    • Stunned Mullet 8.2

      Problem with testing upon arrival in NZ is the time for processing of samples and reporting will still mean that those arriving will have already moved to a hotel by the time they have their first result back.

      I dod suspect there will be significant tweaking to the system over the next 2-4 weeks to improve triaging of incoming travellers and minimise/eliminate the possibility of cross infection amongst those isolating upon entry into NZ.

    • anker 8.3

      I have read that the optimal day to test is day 3. Testing at the airport too early.

      Social distancing all the way through the 14 day isolation is essential. Tests a good backup

      • bwaghorn 8.3.1

        It seem a no brainer that they should have between 7 and 14 different hotels for quarantine (no idea how many are arriving each day ) and only people from the same day or two go to the 1st motel then the next couple of days go to the next one etc .

        It would stop the problem of day 14s mingling with day 3s

        • observer 8.3.1.1

          I'm not clear how moving people every couple of days reduces opportunities for contact. It would seem to increase them considerably.

          Human error would multiply too ("I told the nurse in Hotel number 1, and here you are in Hotel number 4 asking the same questions, why can't we deal with the same people each day, right hand doesn't know what left hand is doing" …).

          Seriously, nothing about this is a no-brainer. People trying to make it work have spent hundreds of hours on it, making thousands of decisions about practical problems large and small, and any one mistake creates a headline. We are just captains on the couch.

          • bwaghorn 8.3.1.1.1

            You dont move the people . You change motels every two days for new arrivals.

            • observer 8.3.1.1.1.1

              OK, I misunderstood "go to the next one etc". Sorry.

              In the end the inescapable problem is that they are in hotels. One thing that authorities haven't communicated effectively is why the quarantine needs to be in hotels with "normal" guests. In terms of perception, that is a gift to the media. Even if the risk is tiny, the public mood is so skittish that misinformation spreads like … well, like a virus.

        • solkta 8.3.1.2

          T'is a pity it too cold for tents. Could put them in paddocks in batches with paddocks as buffers.

          • observer 8.3.1.2.1

            80% of public opinion would probably support that. Government tough!

            Then a sick child in a tent would be on the TV news and 80% of public opinion would be against. Government heartless!

        • Naki man 8.3.1.3

          Wag that is exactly what Judith Collins said yesterday, new hotel for each day and sanitized between groups. Instead these fuckwits hold a wedding in the room that the people exercise in that day. It sure ain't rocket science.

          So much for tightening the borders and test test test, We were lied to.

  9. joe90 9

    They're on a roll.

    /

    The New York Times reports that Facebook took down Trump campaign advertisements that "prominently featured a symbol used by Nazis to classify political prisoners during World War II."

    The symbol was a red triangle, which ran alongside ad copy that said, “Dangerous MOBS of far-left groups are running through our streets and causing absolute mayhem.”

    […]

    Mark Bray, a historian at Rutgers and the author of “Antifa: The Anti-Fascist Handbook,” said that “the origin of the symbol is universally agreed to be with the Nazis and the concentration camps.” He added that the red triangle was not part of the symbolism of antifa in the United States.

    The fact that the triangle has been reclaimed by some anti-fascists, Mr. Bray said, does not give the Trump campaign license to use the same symbol to attack antifa. “This is a symbol that represented the extermination of leftists,” he said. “It is a death threat against leftists. There’s no way around what that means historically.”

    https://boingboing.net/2020/06/18/trump-ad-uses-nazi-symbol-to-a.html

  10. joe90 10

    .

    .

    • ianmac 10.1

      I'm really not a racist! But I had better check those subconscious thoughts….mmmm?

      • bwaghorn 10.1.1

        Agh those subconscious buggers lurk,,but if you dont let them out and make damned sure you dont pass them on to the kids like they where handed to you , does that mean your really not racist??

        • ianmac 10.1.1.1

          I didn't think I was sexist until the day I asked the woman behind the counter if I could speak to one of the mechanics. She said perhaps she could help." To my shame I told her what my problem was with the clear intention of showing that it needed a mechanic.

          She looked me straight in the eye and gave me a first rate answer to my problem. Why did I doubt her ability? Because she was a woman???

  11. RedBaronCV 11

    Can anybody clear some thing up for me .I've looked at immigration NZ but am really none the wiser. A permanent resident visa – can someone stay outside the country and turn up here for a brief holiday annually or every so often and then apply to have it transfered from passport to passport. So there is no way that they are habitually resident here or paying tax or anything else? And if that is so can they come back here under the current border controls ( despite maybe having not lived here for several years) and just take welfare etc. If they can I'm not sure that I am very impressed with it as a system.

    • nordy 11.1

      Have a look at the INZ guide INZ1176 on their website. It should answer most of your questions.

      It comes back to the word 'permanent' in the visa title. Once a decision is made it is 'permanent', with a few exceptions. Have look also at the conditions for granting permanent residence.

      If you are suggesting we should only allow temporary residence to non-citizens, then I presume you have good plan for managing all the practical implications of that situation?

      • RedBaronCV 11.1.1

        In the past I have run across people who had returned to work here after spending 6-10 years out of the country working back in their citizenship country and I was under the impression that they only had a permanent resident visa. Hence the question.

        • RedBaronCV 11.1.1.1

          I wasn't actually suggesting anything just curious as to how this all worked. However, I have worked with a number of people with permanent resident visa's who subsequently relocated – to be near other family members- and are unlikely to return here. The guide mentioned doesn't really hel.p

    • observer 11.2

      There is a huge issue here that shows how foolish (or disingenuous) it is to simply assume it's all sorted for those who have residence claims, and so we can now start processing and inviting into NZ thousands of people who have none (e.g. on student visas).

      TV1 had a story on this tonight (not online yet), I think 80,000 was the number quoted – will check. That is, people who are entitled to come to NZ, under existing (pre-Covid) rules.

      There are many stories about divided families, some terribly unfortunate people who are caught betwixt and between. Some examples reported here, a week ago.

      Casually declaring that we should let others jump the queue (for cash, of course) is not only bad health policy, it is borderline corrupt.

      • observer 11.2.1

        TV3, not TV1.

        • observer 11.2.1.1

          Here's an example of the problems, reported today:

          The dairy industry employs around 30,000 people – 4500 are migrants.
          Federated Farmers dairy industry group chair Chris Lewis estimates 100 of those migrants are stuck overseas due to Covid-19. …

          "The problem we've got is Mother Nature doesn't wait for politicians and in the next few weeks calving starts.

          "If the Government do allow them to come back in then they have to quarantine for two weeks, we need a clear cut decision from our Government saying yes or no if this is going to happen."

          So should those 100 be allowed in, immediately? Yes, because they are needed? Or No, because they pose a risk? We could make a case for either, but if "Yes", then multiply that number many times over, and then find them all a place in a secure quarantine location.

          Then multiply it many times more, for the extra people the Opposition want to bring in.

          https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/121844329/cant-afford-to-stay-here-cant-afford-to-go-home–the-struggles-migrants-are-facing-due-to-covid19

          • RedBaronCV 11.2.1.1.1

            There are quite a number of 3 month jobs around the first part of the season. Why not advertise and fill the jobs locally and pay decent wages. 100 is a tiny number out of the workforce total.

    • Craig H 11.3

      http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/2009/0051/latest/DLM1440688.html

      Once someone gets a permanent resident visa, there is no expiry date, and no requirement to actually reside here. To answer your initial question, yes.

  12. joe90 12

    Congrats, Malala.

  13. RedBaronCV 13

    I actually thought we might try to employ our own citizens first – in particular those returning from Australia – but apparently not. Income levels have been waived also. Bit of a kick in the guts for the unemployed.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/300038780/border-restrictions-eased-for-sportspeople-infrastructure-project-workers

  14. Sacha 14

    Someone may have already picked this up over recent days: http://norightturn.blogspot.com/2020/06/labour-chickenshits-out-on-gun-control.html

    The move is part of a suite of changes to the Arms Legislation Bill, which saw the Labour Party give in to most of NZ First’s demands.

    But this backdown wasn't necessary. Gun control is a hugely popular issue in urban New Zealand. Labour could have simply publicly blamed NZ First for the delay, then campaigned on passing the law without their amendments. Instead, they chose to chicken out, and grovel to a coalition partner who is actively sabotaging a core part of their agenda, when they had no real need to.

    • nordy 14.1

      Not so. What the coalition govt have actually done is what they said they would do. The fact they are going to do it in a different way over a longer time frame than some would like the reality of MMP. The real world of a coalition govt is not a case of 'black and white' decisions, it is about negotiating agreement on legislation that wasn't settled in the coalition agreement. To suggest that a disagreement should be halted and left to the election to decide is not to take MMP seriously (and to assume that future election would necessarily provide a stronger position from which to negotiate).

      We voted for MMP precisely to avoid single parties being able to dominate the parliamentary and legislative process. It seems rather odd to now criticise an MMP government for managing the electoral cards it was dealt under a system we voted for.

    • observer 14.2

      The post is out of date, the reforms (including a register) were passed on Thursday night.

      If we ever needed an example of the vagaries of media attention spans, it is before us right now. A year ago gun reform was THE issue and everybody was talking about. Now we have the legislative response (part 2) and nobody is talking about it.

    • bwaghorn 14.3

      The clown from nrt has got himself a bit excited . Why is every farmer going to suddenly by an ar15 because they are allowed a semi auto for pest control?

      Not many would have had them pre the buy back and I cant see them all rushing out to get one even if it becomes possible.

      Lefties truly hate farmers is all I can think.

      • Graeme 14.3.1

        Yeah, he would have helped his case if he’d actually looked up what’s required to get an endorsement to have a semiauto, they’re still a prohibited weapon. It isn’t that easy, and you really need one to get one.

        https://www.police.govt.nz/advice-services/firearms-and-safety/apply-endorsement-and-permit-possess-prohibited-items

        A .22 or shotgun for rabbits, probably fairly easy if you’re in Otago. Can’t see this being too much of a problem. Get caught with the shotgun down the maimai and it could be tricky. I note that parries aren’t on the list of pest species, we have to do work on them here and you’re not getting anywhere with just two shots (even with 5 you’ve got to control your shots)

        An AR15 for goats, well you’d need a pretty bad goat problem and then you’d be getting the pros in and probably a chopper as well. The number of farms that would fall into that category would be pretty small, and large properties that would be well controlled.

        DOC and the chopper people, well that’s effectively the same as it was up to the mid 80’s when it all got a bit loose and we ended up where we are now.

        I did goat control work for the Forest Service in early 80’s and the dept had an AR, mainly for chopper work, but we could use it if we didn’t have a rifle. Everyone hated the thing, guys would pay for, and cart around heavier calibre ammo for their heavier sporting rifle rather than put up with the AR, it was so unsuited to what we were doing on the ground. Different story out of the chopper, but we did very little of that.

        • bwaghorn 14.3.1.1

          Most people muster the gaots where possible, best hourly rate I've ever had by a long way .

          Had a mate get all worked up about the banning of semis for culling ,he calmed down when I pointed out that the deer cullers of yore used crappy old 303s with 5 shot mags and where deadly with them .

          Told him to learn to shoot straight!!

  15. joe90 16

    Best demonstrators stand back while tens of thousands of tRump cultists pack themselves into a hot arena yelling and coughing all over each other, sans masks or distancing because they ain't no soy boys, and fuel the spike .

    U.S. President Donald Trump on Friday threatened unspecified action against any protesters at his weekend re-election rally in Tulsa, Oklahoma, in a warning that his campaign said was not directed at peaceful demonstrators.

    “Any protesters, anarchists, agitators, looters or lowlifes who are going to Oklahoma please understand, you will not be treated like you have been in New York, Seattle, or Minneapolis. It will be a much different scene!” Trump wrote on Twitter.

    https://globalnews.ca/news/7088139/donald-trump-tulsa-rally-protesters/

    • The Al1en 16.1

      Looking at the stereotypical Trump rally attendee, they appear to be mostly old, fat and prime candidates for immune deficient diseases.

      Given covid's attachment to these sort of people, one would hope the campaign team aren't planning on holding too many shindigs in marginal states. After all, all votes matter in swing states.

      • Andre 16.1.1

        If the Prophet of Pestilence wishes to hold his rallies, and his MADAmorons wish to attend them with the entirely predictable infectious results, why would one hope against that happening in marginal states? Votes do indeed matter – if that specific segment self-selects out of the voting pool, how is that a bad thing?

        • The Al1en 16.1.1.1

          Obviously peoples lives, even if they are republicans, are something to cherish and not wish over for something like politics.

          But just supposing in the soup of infection those convention halls will be, it will be something to watch for, to see if those marginals are affected by attendees contracting and/or dying from it.

          • joe90 16.1.1.1.1

            Fucker and his enablers don't give a rats about lives.

    • joe90 16.2

      The Tulsa curfew is going be lifted and the Oklahoma Supreme Court has knocked back a request for the rally venue to enforce safety measures.

    • joe90 16.3

      Jonestown gone large.

  16. RedBaronCV 17

    There was no social distancing. We were sat in the middle of a row of four people – we had people right up against us," she said.

    "Masks were not compulsory, the flight attendants were only wearing a mask and no other PPE … and the flight itself seemed to be very crammed, very busy."

    On Air NZ's website it says that under alert level 1 social distancing is no longer a requirement.

    Masks now have to be worn on flights. But surely this alert level 1 only applies within New Zealand after quarantine has been completed? Why would Airnz ever imagine it applies on an inward bound from overseas flight? Or that they could put people straight onto a domestic flight before quarantine?

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/419359/flight-with-latest-covid-19-case-crammed-we-had-people-right-up-against-us

    • observer 17.1

      She reports that the quarantine at her hotel was very strict. Good.

      But I wish the media would stop promoting the notion that Ashley Bloomfield is personally responsible for the world. Does he have to issue orders to every airline now, even outside NZ? How is he supposed to enforce that?

      • Shanreagh 17.1.1

        Me too. Lazy journos. Unthinking/ill-educated readers who believe this tosh.

  17. Shanreagh 18

    Just a bit concerned over the numbers of returning NZers.

    But why?

    Have they all been trapped as tourists while visiting? Or all living in Australia?

    Or, as I fear, have they found out the places they have called home for the last few years do not have the level of welfare support that NZ is giving its NZ-based citizens who have lost their NZ-based jobs.

    I know that for access to super you have had to have been resident in NZ for the XXX of YYY years.

    Do we have any restrictions for these incoming citizens who have been permanently resident overseas, before they are able to claim the $$$$ especially the $490 per week. If my skepticism is correct then expect to see these people returning back overseas to their homes there once they get back on their feet here at the expense of resident NZers.

    Does anyone know if returning NZers can just step out their quarantine and straight into claiming a benefit, housing support etc despite not contributing here for what may be a few years.

    Sounds mean-spirited I know. Some of the behaviour reported on and the moaning about quarantine by our returning NZers makes me wonder though.

    • Sabine 18.1

      I would guess that some will try to leave England and somehow i can't blame them. Trying to live trhough the mess that is Brexit is one thing, but trying to survive Bojo's covid 19 response is something else altogether. . i have a friend who has huge issues getting her visa renewed, and she has a job and has lived there now for a few years with her partner.

      Chances are that anyone returning now will still have a 12 week stand down as they will not have worked in NZ as is required to actually receive unemployment benefits . They might be able to get a hardship grant if they have no income to support themselves. In saying that it could very well be that they are asked to 'use all alternative options' first before they actually get a penny. I also took the Covid – 19 unemployment benefit to be applied to NZ based citizen/resident.

      So maybe its a bit of both, legal issues that force them home (Brexit is hell on migrants in the UK), maybe some pressure from the family too, and maybe a return as suddenly any savings might be actually good enough to buy a house in NZ – which is one of the reasons my friends went overseas. Make good money, save, return and start something of their own. People i know in OZ have no intention of coming here.

    • Craig H 18.2

      Possible stand down if the 13 weeks applies, otherwise no. To get the special $490, have to have lost a job in NZ due to Covid-19, so they probably won't be eligible for that.

      • Descendant Of Smith 18.2.1

        You wouldn't get a 13 week stand-down for leaving your job if returning from overseas. The hardest aspect of advocacy work to some extent was trying to dispel myths that prevailed in the community such as when you got a 13 week stand-down, that you had to spend all your money/redundancy before getting a benefit, you could spend 3 nights a week together before it was considered a relationship – and in some small defence of the staff that they got paid bonuses for declining food grants.

        It was difficult enough fighting WINZ for not following their own policies without the community saying many of the same things. The actual policy manuals have been on-line for years now.

        Clients returning to New Zealand from overseas

        A non-entitlement period is not considered when a client returns to New Zealand after working overseas. Clients returning to New Zealand after working overseas do not receive a voluntary unemployment stand-down.

        https://www.workandincome.govt.nz/map/income-support/main-benefits/jobseeker-support/non-entitlement-period-should-not-be-imposed-01.html

    • Graeme 18.3

      Chatter around Queenstown is that a lot of expat New Zealanders are getting out of Europe, Asia and US as quickly as they can, buying here, and maybe selling up there. Realestate agents are busy and builders have a sudden urgency in their step.

      This piece https://www.oneroof.co.nz/news/38047 waffles around it but confirms most of what is happening here.

      The bit they’ve got wrong is that the top (the Shania Twains) drive the market here, they don’t, it’s driven by New Zealanders and Australians wanting a bit of the ‘Queenstown Lifestyle’ for a few years.

      • Pat 18.3.1

        Worth noting that Oneroof are industry spruikers….much salt needed

        • Graeme 18.3.1.1

          Like I said, they waffled around it. To spruik you need some small truth to spruik and try to turn into a boom. Unfortunately that’s the way markets, politics, and forums like this work. I’m just saying what appears to be going on

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