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Open mike 20/12/2019

Written By: - Date published: 7:00 am, December 20th, 2019 - 59 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

59 comments on “Open mike 20/12/2019 ”

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  1. Paaparakauta 1
    20 December 2019 at 7:15 am

    Happy New Year, and please drive safely during the silly season.

    What are the implications of Trumps impeachment ?

    • Cinny 1.1
      20 December 2019 at 7:23 am

      Seasons greetings for the coming solstice ☀️heart ☀️

      Good article with everything you need to know yes

      When will the Senate hold trial? What will it look like? Your guide to Trump's impeachment.

      https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019/12/trump-impeachment-191217154733957.html

    • Andre 1.2
      20 December 2019 at 7:25 am

      Electorally it's yet to be seen.

      In terms of holding him accountable for his misdeeds, it means nothing. Because the chances of the senate voting to convict him, or imposing some other sanction short of conviction such as censure, are quite a lot less than your chances of winning Powerball.

      In terms of his behaviour, unlike you or I that would find it quite a chastening experience, he will no doubt find it invigorating. You think it's been a shitshow so far? Hold on to your buttocks, you ain't seen nuthin yet.

      • Wensleydale 1.2.1
        20 December 2019 at 3:08 pm

        Is there anyone left in the Republican Party who isn't either self-serving, corrupt or cowardly? Or an exciting blend of all three? Because they seem utterly vile almost to a man. Justin Amash at least had the moral fortitude to leave the GOP and stand as an independent. He must be feeling very lonely these days. Mitch McConnell and friends seem to have quite brazenly indicated they don't give a toss about the Constitution or the wishes of the American people. Their Orange Messiah has manufactured his own reality with its own rules, and those are the rules by which they're determined to play.

        There are no absolutes anymore. Reality is the perpetually morphing domain of those who can lie most frequently and most shamelessly.

    • millsy 1.3
      20 December 2019 at 7:28 am

      "What are the implications of Trumps impeachment ?"

      Historians will pinpoint this as the event that led to the Second US Civil War. Pelosi has no idea of the forces she has unleashed.

      • Andre 1.3.1
        20 December 2019 at 8:08 am

        The dayglo swampzilla has spent the last five years thrashing around like a bull in a china shop with a taser lodged up its ass, and now Pelosi makes a mild attempt to rein him in. But you're suggesting the coming eruptions are Pelosi's fault?

        • Sacha 1.3.1.1
          20 December 2019 at 8:52 am

          Blaming the woman administering a mild enema for the pent-up shitshow. Jackson Pollock all over the oval office. Cheeseburger art.

      • Paaparakauta 1.3.2
        20 December 2019 at 8:21 am

        I recently read "And the War came: The North and the Secession Crisis, 1860-61" by Kenneth R. Stamp (formerly Professor of History at Berkeley) about events leading up to the US Civil War and evolution of northern public opinion. Trump could have walked out of its pages.

      • Kevin 1.3.3
        20 December 2019 at 9:52 am

        Is that you Brett O'Keefe?

    • mauī 1.4
      20 December 2019 at 10:48 am

      Nothing, it's a partisan Democrat wankfest if you've been following the commentary on this blog.

      If anything it's made Trump much more re-electable.

      • Andre 1.4.1
        20 December 2019 at 10:59 am

        I'm still interested in your answer to the question below. I've asked you at least four times before, you evaded it the first time and ghosted the rest.

        Do you think it's OK for the president to withhold Congress approved and taxpayer funded aid to try to extort a foreign country into smearing a political opponent of the president?

        • Siobhan McCormack 1.4.1.1
          20 December 2019 at 1:30 pm

          If I can push in here..I think there are people who would say its not an egregious enough accusation to warrant the risk of leaving Trump even more electable.

          I would also question why, if the accusations are true, not to mention 'Russiagate' Pelosi etc are so willing to tick off Trumps latest military spending requests.

          Let alone his laws around increased surveillance.

          I guess Trump and Pelosi etc have some common ground..

          <blockquote>
          If Republicans are supposed to worry about the United States bankrupting itself with social-welfare spending, aren&rsquo;t Democrats supposed to worry about the United States bankrupting itself with military spending? Not anymore. In the run-up to the deal, Nancy Pelosi&rsquo;s office fired off an email to House Democrats proclaiming that, &ldquo;In our negotiations, Congressional Democrats have been fighting for increases in funding for defense.&rdquo; Chuck Schumer&rsquo;s office announced that, &ldquo;We fully support President Trump&rsquo;s Defense Department&rsquo;s request.&rdquo; Not all congressional Democrats voted for the budget agreement:&nbsp;<a href="https://www.govtrack.us/congress/votes/115-2018/h69&quot; rel="nofollow ugc">Thirty-eight percent of Democrats</a>&nbsp;backed it in the House and&nbsp;<a href="https://www.govtrack.us/congress/votes/115-2018/s31&quot; rel="nofollow ugc">76 percent</a>&nbsp;did in the Senate. But even those who voted no mostly did so because they were upset about its lack of protection for immigrant &ldquo;dreamers&rdquo;&mdash;not because they oppose a higher defense budget. Last year, in fact, when Democrats were offered a standalone vote on big increases in military spending&mdash;in the form of&nbsp;<a href="https://www.politico.com/story/2017/07/14/house-passes-defense-policy-bill-240561&quot; rel="nofollow ugc">House</a>&nbsp;and&nbsp;<a href="https://www.defensenews.com/congress/2017/09/18/us-senate-passes-budget-busting-700-billion-ndaa/&quot; rel="nofollow ugc">Senate</a>&nbsp;defense authorization bills&mdash;large majorities in both bodies voted yes.
          </blockquote>

          <a href="https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2018/02/democrats-defense-spending/553670/&quot; rel="nofollow ugc">https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2018/02/democrats-defense-spending/553670/</a&gt;

          &nbsp;

          • Siobhan McCormack 1.4.1.1.1
            20 December 2019 at 1:53 pm

            what the heck just ignore all that gobbledygook..

          • McFlock 1.4.1.1.2
            20 December 2019 at 3:31 pm

            Russian interference came from Russia. Members of the dolt45 campaign tried to collude in that, but failed because they were incompetent. And it all happened before he was president, and nobody other than the Russians were using state resources or authority.

            While the Ukraine thing is a clear case of an elected official using their public powers in order to obtain private political favours from a foreign power. No grey area, no complexity about servers or analytics: dolt45 withheld state aid to the Ukraine and requested a sham investigation against his political opponent before he released the funds. By his own admission, and the admission of multiple administration officials with direct or documentary knowledge of the conversation.

            • mauī 1.4.1.1.2.1
              20 December 2019 at 5:44 pm

              The Mueller report couldn't establish a conspiracy between Trump-Russia. There are no ifs or buts about it.

              The Ukraine thing is even more tenuous as one of the star witnesses himself agreed with the Trump transcript and the other one admitted it was his own assumption there was a quid pro quo without evidence of one.

              • Andre …
                20 December 2019 at 5:56 pm

                Do you think it's OK for the president to withhold Congress approved and taxpayer funded aid to try to extort a foreign country into smearing a political opponent of the president?

              • McFlock …
                20 December 2019 at 6:05 pm

                The Mueller report couldn't establish a conspiracy between Trump-Russia. There are no ifs or buts about it.

                How does that contradict what I wrote?

                The Ukraine thing is even more tenuous as one of the star witnesses himself agreed with the Trump transcript and the other one admitted it was his own assumption there was a quid pro quo without evidence of one.

                Have you read the transcript of the July call? The one where Zelensky asks about getting Javelins for defense, and the orange piece of shit says "I would like you to do us a favor though" and starts requesting the Ukrainians open an investigation ranging across a number of issues, including that Guiliani will be his representative to the Ukrainians and "There's a lot of talk about Biden's son, that Biden stopped the prosecution and a lot of people want to find out about that so whatever you can do with the Attorney General would be great."

                And that's the whitehouse's own transcript. But you still regurgitate no evidence of quid pro quo.

                edit: also, what andre asked.

                • mauī …
                  22 December 2019 at 11:12 am

                  It sounds like you're saying there was attempted collusion, and I'm just letting you know the investigation into it couldn't find any.

                  The bulk of the Ukraine transcript is centred on the goings on and the investigating of Ukraine. The javelins are mentioned once and I think the Bidens are too. To make a case that it is actually about doing a deal on either of those things when they are mentioned in passing is quite frankly stupid.

                  • joe90 …
                    22 December 2019 at 11:22 am

                    the Ukraine transcript

                    It's the tRump White House version of a phone call they rushed to bury in highly classified storage usually reserved for information about covert operations and other sensitive intelligence actions, not a transcript.

                    http://archive.li/0KTnn

                  • McFlock …
                    22 December 2019 at 8:15 pm

                    re: attempted collusion: yeah, nah. These guys said it better at the time. There were multiple attempts by the orange oaf's campaign to get electoral assistance from the Russians.

                    And if I say "do what I say or I kill your dog", even once, that's still a crime. The dude was literally asked about the congress-assigned military aid and answered with a request for a personal "favour". Even if he only did it once (lol) it's still a crime.

  2. Andre 2
    20 December 2019 at 7:19 am

    The A to Z framing is cheesy and limiting it to 26 means a lot has been left out. But it's still a useful reminder of how much the Mango Mugabe has gotten away with and almost certainly won't be held accountable for.

    https://theintercept.com/2019/12/19/a-z-trump-impeachment/

  3. Cinny 3
    20 December 2019 at 7:31 am

    Are you coming to or travelling through Motueka these holidays? Us locals have a couple of unwritten rules…..

    • Don't turn right into High Street – You'll be waiting for ages.
    • If you see someone struggling to cross the road or exit a drive way, please stop for them and let them pass. You'll be rewarded with friendly waves and smiles and you'll still arrive at your destination on time. Thanks 🙂
    • greywarshark 3.1
      20 December 2019 at 10:35 am

      Someone intoning about safety on the roads on radio this morning (in a foreign accent – Canadian I think one less job for a born NZer). Realistic xenophobia!

      The message is that proposals and actions to bring the 'road toll' down must take a holistic approach, not just acting on one aspect. Cinny brings up the courtesy approach, the realisation that there are other people out there trying to do things too. Taking a community of the road approach would be very helpful in reducing stress when getting around. Pedestrians understand that they need to do what we used to teach toddlers to do, look right, left, then right again, and perhaps give a wave to drivers who stop. Drivers could slow more often when they observe others near the road, could toot to alert people who aren't paying attention. They could slow when approaching a narrow piece of road, to ensure safe transit in each lane, and give a wave as acknowledgment to other thoughtful and careful drivers.

      We all tend to feel like 'King of the Road' and busy with our own duties, ignoring other drivers. So we could act graciously like the Kings and Queens we’ve observed, smiling and waving when appropriate. And find it appropriate on a regular basis.

      We are having to slow to 80 km with the roads are jammed with traffic, which is also the same speed that the behemoth trucks can travel at so driving may involve staring at the rear of a truck for the whole journey. Or at another passenger vehicle with windows at a higher level, so they too will block out most of the view ahead. So we had better keep safe distances behind because you lose your opportunity to 'read' conditions ahead and so be forced to brake hard and fast in reaction to the moving wall ahead of you.

      No worries though deaths and injuries will go down as soon we will have so many people on the roads we'll be in an eternal queue lucky to move forward at 20 kmh.

      • veutoviper 3.1.1
        20 December 2019 at 1:12 pm

        "Someone intoning about safety on the roads on radio this morning (in a foreign accent – Canadian I think one less job for a born NZer). Realistic xenophobia!"

        Really, Grey? You think we should sack our Associate Minister of Transport, Julie Anne Genter, because she is American-born and replace her with someone NZ born?

        Really? Who do you think should replace her? Yourself?

        I am 99% sure you are referring to JAG's interview with Kathryn Ryan on RNZ Nine to Noon at 0908 this morning on the Government's new multi-billion dollar road safety plan aimed at cutting road deaths by 40 per cent by 2030. Genter announced the plan, called Road to Zero, yesterday. Earlier in the week she announced roadside drug testing would be rolled out from 2021.

        Regardless of where she was born, I would rate Genter's past experience and qualifications light miles ahead of yours – or most other people's including other MPs of whatever hue, birthplace, or political party – for the job of Minister or Associate Minister for transportation generally, and in particular economically sustainable and environmental friendly roading and road safety.

        ttps://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/ninetonoon/audio/2018727818/new-road-safety-plan-aims-to-cut-road-deaths-by-40-per-cent

        • Sacha 3.1.1.1
          20 December 2019 at 2:52 pm

          Genter would be our most qualified Transport minister in decades. They train em well in that US of A. Glad to have one of their citizens contributing here rather than just buying up land.

      • ianmac 3.1.2
        20 December 2019 at 1:23 pm

        The truck speed limit is 90kph I think.

        Funny thing is on the Kapiti main road they sometimes closed down the passing lanes when traffic was heavy. Surprisingly the traffic flowed more evenly and accidents were fewer. I accept that motorways built for heavier traffic can flow at say 120kph safely. The 3 lane highway from Dubai to El Ain has a fast lane without interruption where locals travel at speeds greater than 150kph. (Limit supposed to be 120kph.)

    • Matiri 3.2
      20 December 2019 at 11:05 am

      As long time residents from the UK, we joke to each other 'must be from UK' whenever a driver shows common courtesy on the road wink

      • weka 3.2.1
        20 December 2019 at 6:16 pm

        it's a city thing. Normal to be courteous in the country (can pick the city drivers in the country).

  4. Dennis Frank 4
    20 December 2019 at 9:18 am

    Looks like the Spanish are flying under the radar, having become the world's leading practitioners of postmodern politics without getting the credit for it. I read what No Right Turn reported on the EU contradicting Spain's govt, did a hunt through likely websites to discover what that govt actually is, and found that the actual existence of that govt seems to depend on which source of info you read. Another Schrodinger's Cat situation.

    According to this one, despite two elections this year Spain still doesn't have a govt: https://www.aa.com.tr/en/europe/spain-suffers-235th-day-with-no-government-/1678451

    They could do tourism promotion on that basis eh? People would flock to experience the anarchist's nirvana.

    Wikipedia says "The current prime minister is Pedro Sánchez, who took office on 2 June 2018. He is the leader of the Socialist Workers' Party." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_of_Spain

    The Guardian says he is merely acting: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/nov/12/spain-ruling-socialists-strike-coalition-deal-with-podemos-sanchez

    Leftist populists are currently beating rightist populists: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/November_2019_Spanish_general_election

    Anyway, the baddies are the social democrats (or, socialist workers) who have been preventing an elected Catalan from taking his seat in the European parliament. Why would anyone expect a bunch of leftists to respect the will of the people? Postmodern thinking rules, and state compulsion is very addictive.

    • Paaparakauta 4.1
      20 December 2019 at 10:22 am

      Re. "Why would anyone expect a bunch of leftists to respect the will of the people ?"

      Having hitched around Spain the year before Franco died and seen the Gardia Civil in full riot gear marching away from an overwhelming crowd of Basque men and women in San Sebastian I am confident that "a bunch of leftists" would probably respect the will of the people. Catalonia has its own troubled past with forensic archaeologists now re-examining old sites.

      A new generation should be left to resolve their own problems in peace rather than succumb to a patronizing antipodean analysis.

    • Bearded Git 4.2
      20 December 2019 at 10:49 am

      The formation of a government in Spain is almost complete.

      PSOE and Podemos have already agreed a deal and a government with a majority in parliament is likely to be agreed before xmas, though it is possible this might be delayed until January.

    • greywarshark 5.1
      20 December 2019 at 10:55 am

      Power tends to corrupt etc. I noticed that Ms Dalziel was revealed as being prepared to get more than a 'little help from my friends'. John Minto keeps an eye out for this sort of thing. He stood for Mayor himself didn’t he?

      Her husband was in question about some matter a few months back. Being a lawyer, or being close to one of the right sort, seems to be important to modern politics. The age of people fired with dreams of a better country and better living conditions and opportunities for the people saw action men and women step up and look to the country. Now pollies sit in a circle and play Pass the Parcel and watch each other for cheating, and sneaking goodies, on the sly, out of the Parcel while passing.

      I met a lawyer I know and asked him how he was, told him not to work too hard (he takes on difficult criminal cases), and said don't be like Greg King. He admitted he had a bad spell after one case. That's not the sort of lawyer I referred to above. Rumpole of the Bailey dealing with the hoi polloi isn't generally where the money and power is.

      • pat 5.1.1
        20 December 2019 at 11:12 am

        "Now pollies sit in a circle and play Pass the Parcel and watch each other for cheating, and sneaking goodies, on the sly, out of the Parcel while passing."

        Sadly that is a very apt description

  6. greywarshark 6
    20 December 2019 at 11:17 am

    Edit
    There has been a suggestion that reducing cruise ship visits would be helpful for NZ to reduce its pollution and environmental footprint.

    Our facilities are already under stress. This from Wellington is shocking.

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/405909/sewage-going-into-wellingon-harbour-after-pipe-collapse

    Up to 100 litres of wastewater and raw sewage a second is pouring into the Wellington harbour after a wastewater pipe collapsed in the CBD.

    Listening to Australia's sudden jump into Climate Change horror, it would pay us to taihoa somewhat and perhaps sack our politicians, and set up an emergency government of scientists and leaders with lists of needs which then would be prioritised and costed, and amortised over ten years, and reviewed and done. Treasury could be asked for how our position in the world financial system could be held stable and our currency gradually deflated by a constant stream of carefully picked negative news. Economic advice would come from BERL and another. We might also set up a visa system for entry to this country, and ensure that all tourists should at least be a positive return to the country if not a profit. Dairy farmers would be taxed on each animal, that money to go towards remediation of waterways. Obviously the heavily stocked would have to pay more. Etc. We might get somewhere on our plan for survival under 'best practice' instead of having this political theatre of the absurd we have paraded every day.

    Further to the above – there has been a proactive move to ban inclined sleepers for babies because they are likely to be bad for them, unsafe, and they have caused deaths which were preventable, in the USA.
    https://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/GE1912/S00057/ban-on-inclined-infant-sleep-products.htm

    Seems sensible and wise by the NZ authority. But wait, there’s more. Too much wisdom isn’t allowed any more, in our society with an unregulated zeitgeist.

    After much declaration of the reliability and safety of the practice established in NZ of babies lying flat this is the final sentence:

    ‘The Unsafe Goods Notice will remain in force for the next 18 months.’

  7. pat 7
    20 December 2019 at 11:33 am

    "With this slavish commitment to the automobile, the country’s political class has demonstrated its near-total moral incapacity. New Zealand’s claim to be taking Climate Change seriously stands exposed as utter bullshit."

    https://thedailyblog.co.nz/2019/12/20/reconnecting-jacinda-with-her-inner-swashbuckler/

    "The thing is, we were expecting her commitment to amount to something more than the well-meaning but toothless Zero Carbon Act. Something like announcing a completely new, wider-gauge, electrified, national rail network. An infrastructure programme that would allow New Zealand to replicate the ultra-fast trains that move people around Europe, China and Japan. Something to put the greenhouse-gas pumping road transport industry out to pasture. Something more than a plan to build roads, roads and more roads.

    Something to make young and old alike exclaim, at least one more time: “Let’s do this!”

    • Exkiwiforces 7.1
      20 December 2019 at 1:07 pm

      We don't need to convert the current Cape gauge/ 3ft 6" to a wider gauge aka Standard gauge.

      What needs to happen to NZ Railways is to fix up the loading gauge (and something else which I've forgotten atm), which will increase the speed and weight of fully loaded trains and for example the old Standard Railcars which operated throughout the Nth Island of which there are about 2-3 left for mainline operations now days can only be used on about 20% to 30% of Nth Island rail network compere to the 1930's until there replacements later on.

      Most of the rail network alignment is still built when Steam Loco's were King of the Rails and again fixing up the alignment to for the more modern Loco's would allow for faster and heavily trains on the network.

      We only need to look at Qld which is the same gauge as NZ's network at what could be done to NZ's network IRT to freight and High Speed Passenger Tilt Trains for both Regional/ Inter City and Urban networks.

      There is so much potential in KiwiRail, even though a lot of land was sold off by Government prior to privatisation and under privatisation which restricted growth in some areas of the network which has hampered further investment.

      A lot of people have forgotten there was a petrol ration during WW2 which lasted until the early to mid 50's and just imaging a 15% cut or greater to POL products if a major conflict broke out in the Middle East or in the South China Sea? The only reason that NZ kept producing goods was the Railways and the MN aka Coastal Shipping with the Trucking Firms restricted to the Ports or the various Rail depots to places that weren't serviced by ships or by the railways.

      • pat 7.1.1
        20 December 2019 at 1:12 pm

        I wasnt overly concerned with the specifics of CTs piece (i.e. wider gauge or high speed) but rather the thrust of the fact we have rhetoric around CC and having just announced a relaxation of BR we are wasting (imo) that infrastructure spend on locking in high carbon infrastructure for the long term,,,as CT bemoans there is a huge gap between the rhetoric and the capability and its only being filled by the PMs personal appeal.

  8. Dennis Frank 8
    20 December 2019 at 12:35 pm

    Greens co-leaders sit down for an interview with Herald political reporter Jason Walls: https://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/video.cfm?c_id=280&gal_cid=280&gallery_id=215281

    A review of practical coalition politics in respect of aspirations & achievements. No revelations but reassuring inasmuch as they seem sure of themselves and confident looking ahead…

  9. joe90 9
    20 December 2019 at 2:10 pm

    oh

    • greywarshark 9.1
      20 December 2019 at 3:29 pm

      The great social anthropologist Noah Way, at the end of a long and tireless search has found in the USA the remnants of a sect of the ancient Christian religion which has continued to exist in as near to the fount of its beliefs as was possible.

      This has emerged from its recent announcement about the depravity of the secular head of the country who, with his cohorts, often espouses religious beliefs in an attempt to hide his false worship of The Golden Calf and Mammon.

      Mammon /ˈmæmən/ in the New Testament of the Bible is commonly thought to mean money, material wealth, or any entity that promises wealth, and is associated with the greedy pursuit of gain. … Mammon in Hebrew (ממון) means "money". https://en.wikipedia.org › wiki › Mammon

      The Golden Calf – The story of the golden calf is widely regarded as one of the most disgraceful moments in Jewish history. In Exodus, chapters 31-32, the Torah tells how three months after leaving Egypt, and a mere 40 days after receiving the Torah at Mount Sinai, the Jewish people created an idol and worshipped it.

      Having miscalculated the date of Moses’ promised return from the mountain, the Jewish people thought their leader had died. They decided to replace him, and with the help of Aaron, formed a golden calf and worshipped it. https://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/3613047/jewish/What-Was-the-Golden-Calf.htm

      There is animated discussion amongst the cognoscenti though as to whether Donald Trump worships the Golden Calf or thinks he embodies it.
      /sarc

      • greywarshark 9.2.1
        20 December 2019 at 8:59 pm

        A beautiful woman. Who is she, I can't keep up?

        • Macro 9.2.1.1
          20 December 2019 at 9:40 pm

          Sorry the Image is too large – but it is Democrat Congresswoman Tulsi Gabbard who is currently a candidate for President. She cravenly was the only Representative to vote "Present" on one of the votes for Impeachment in the House.

          The Image reads:

          TULSI

          2020

          FOR

          PRESENT

  10. AB 10
    20 December 2019 at 2:19 pm

    Scomo apologises and returns to Oz while confessing his fundamental uselessness by saying "I don't hold a hose". Expect plenty of bluff and hearty but sentimental outpourings from him in coming days. Nothing will be done. That benighted country will have to cook for another decade or two – or at least until there are mass deaths, before the grip of the Scomotypes is loosened.
    (A ‘Scomotype’ is the opposite of a prototype – instead of being something you hope will work, it’s something you already know will fail)

    • greywarshark 10.1
      20 December 2019 at 3:15 pm

      What did his hose comment indicate? I thought he would be making jocular statements about all the male politicians rushing out to do their bit on the fires, and sending up women as useless as usual in fire emergencies!

    • McFlock 10.2
      20 December 2019 at 4:18 pm

      he is a fucking hose.

  11. roblogic 11
    20 December 2019 at 4:38 pm

    Fantastic letter to Chloe Swarbrick the other day

    • pat 11.1
      20 December 2019 at 6:25 pm

      We were discussing this the other day…the past is a foreign country.

      We had 2 weeks annual leave, often taken over xmas new year because the business shut down for xmas…we had home ownership savings accounts you needed to be contributing to for years before you could even apply for a mortgage,,credit was difficult and expensive to obtain…mortgages at 20%… old/second hand was typical and expected when young…

      Having said that the maximum term of a mortgage was 20 years (except HNZ which did 24 years) and I cringe when I see the size of the mortgages my children are signing up to (for 30 years)..and theres a good chance the house they bought is a going to fall down around their ears or be worthless because its leaky…and the environment wasnt collapsing (well it was but we didnt know)

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ue7wM0QC5LE

      • roblogic 11.1.1
        20 December 2019 at 6:53 pm

        the past was indeed a different country, where a house was only 3 times the median income and prices were stable. before property investment/ speculation/ hoarding/ rent-seeking became a national religion

        https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EMCDdlZUEAMVKxI.jpg

        • pat 11.1.1.1
          20 December 2019 at 6:56 pm

          yep…not disputing any of that…but am acknowledging I think I can view it from both perspectives…the fact is there are pluses and minuses to both regimes…and its easy to see what makes the whole neo-liberal project so seductive
          You must remember I grew up in a world where half the people in my neighbourhood were where white collar and half were blue…the difference was negligible…not so now

  12. greywarshark 12
    20 December 2019 at 5:26 pm

    Broadcasting – decisions touted for new year. Take your time is my hope. I can't believe that National has issued a statement I agree with.

    National has already expressed its opposition, saying one super entity would be too dominant a force in the market, including editorially.

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12294855 National lays into Govt's broadcasting decision delays

    That gives time to write into the Honourable Broadcasting Minister Kris Faafoi and give him some bullet points about your opinions. Enlarge on them below, but then he might not have time to read lots after the hols. [email protected] govt.nz

    • Ad 12.1
      20 December 2019 at 7:12 pm

      For groaning under the weight of being force-fed taxpayer subsidy, only the arts and sport get as good a subsidy as broadcasting does here. In terms of nutritious content though it's up there with Frosties.

      If they're so intent on handing out public subsidies for non-MSM media, they should start with The Standard and Scoop. The public would then get a better shot at public policy debate than TVNZ and TV3 and MTV put together.

  13. mosa 13
    20 December 2019 at 6:47 pm

    This from the " peoples government "

    Boris Johnson to ‘stop tens of thousands voting’ by making photo ID mandatory at polling stations

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-queens-speech-voter-id-polling-station-a9253386.html

  14. R.P Mcmurphy 14
    20 December 2019 at 7:52 pm

    talking to a onetime MP today. They said they never rated the journos. After the nonsensical dead heat between Jacinda Ardern and Bridjizz it seems the right time to do so. How a liteweight like katy bradfod can get away with that defies the imagination. time to get to work on these pin heads who think their own shit doesn't stink.

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