Open mike 21/05/2013

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, May 21st, 2013 - 98 comments
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Open mike is your post. For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

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Step right up to the mike…

98 comments on “Open mike 21/05/2013”

  1. The Herald this morning has lashed the Government for legislating away the right of kiwis, apart from the few who already have, to seek to be paid for looking after their disabled Whanau.

    In a particularly hitting passage it said “[i]t could be argued the World Cup and the Canterbury earthquakes were events out of the ordinary that demanded such an urgent response setting aside constitutional nuance. But that can hardly be said to be the case in terms of improving the support of disabled people and their families. The Government’s unseemly focus on reducing litigation risk has triggered a shabby piece of legislation and a deplorable flouting of parliamentary process.”

    The editorial is at http://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=10884930.

    So why smash this through under urgency even though it does not come into effect until October?

    The answer seems to be that in its haste to produce a “surplus” it had to get a potential liability off its books. Even very modest potential liabilities can negate the wafer thin surplus the government is pinning its reelection chances on.

    New Zealand it’s time to get angry.

    Shameful at so many levels.

    • Paul 1.1

      Maybe the Herald could lead with ‘Democracy under attack.’
      This totalitarian government should be a wake up call to the sleepy hobbits, as Bomber puts it.

      • Tigger 1.1.1

        Yeah, still waiting for that angry banner headline, Herald.

        • Paul 1.1.1.1

          We’ll have to wait till the government suggests we use energy saving lightbulbs….

          • Morrissey 1.1.1.1.1

            We’ll have to wait till the government suggests we use energy saving lightbulbs….

            Correction: We’ll have to wait till the LABOUR government suggests we use energy saving lightbulbs.

  2. Jenny 2

    A 19th Century style debtor’s prison for this woman if she should ever return?

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff-nation/assignments/share-your-news-and-views/8694964/Me-and-my-100k-student-loan

    • ianmac 2.1

      We get angry when Loan Sharks trap the unwary and next minute the trapped are in an impossible place. So imagine the unwary being trapped through having the temerity to borrow for educational improvement! How stupid is she! Getting a degree indeed! Know your place woman!
      I have a relative who wants to complete his MA but there is no Student Allowance. More debt.

      • marty mars 2.1.1

        Indeed there have been changes to tighten up the allowance and they were achieved by stealth which is the way this government likes to work. After 2.5 years as a fulltime extramural student I’ve had to stop studying because the allowance was ridiculous but the debt is still there. Anytime you go to studylink now it’s log on to igovernment so they can keep extra vigilance on students and make sure they get their pound of flesh.

      • Populuxe1 2.1.2

        I am still trying to work out how anyone would be eliagable for a post grad student allowance when most people would have used up their allocation in undergrad and honours

        • NickS 2.1.2.1

          Well, some of us made use of student loan living costs for undergrad, which if you can find a cheap flat that does communal cooking is nearly liveable without turning to student job search for work. But if you’re unlucky, pretty much you need to have a steady part time job just to pay for rent, bills and your own food, as well as stuff like car costs, recreation etc, so the student allowance becomes very appealing to avoid the debt and give yourself more time for study and living.

    • DH 2.2

      What’s the solution to this? She can’t be the only person in similar straits and it’s not a problem that will go away by itself.

      • NickS 2.2.1

        The rational solution would be to go back to fully subsidised university and tertiary study, with appropriate gating via GPA and a complete scrapping of bums-on-seats funding and declare the current student debt as a lose and wipe it. As effectively tertiary education is an investment by society that usually leads to a person earning higher wages and so paying more in taxes, along with providing valuable skills or new businesses via start ups.

        Unfortunately, well, NZ governments since the 1980’s have had an irrational love of short term benefits/costs and a rather twisted, non-empirical view of sustainable social costs vis viability, resulting in under investment in health, education and social security. Costs of which are now rather visible to all but the most ideological blind.

      • Draco T Bastard 2.2.2

        Forgive all student debt and make getting an education free.

        • Bill 2.2.2.1

          Not free…if you gained an income advantage from your higher level of education, then a truly progressive tax system would effectively mean your education entered into the realms of ‘fair exchange’.

          But yup, although there would be a somewhat justified level of resentment from those who have bust their arses to repay loans to this point, wipe the debt.

          • McFlock 2.2.2.1.1

            I reckon that concentrating on the private benefit, provided it’s not extreme, is the wrong way of looking at things that are broad-brush policies.

            Question is, do we as a society need an ongoing or even increasing number of highly trained individuals (from plumbers/gasfitters to brain surgeons)? If so, sticking a disincentive like fees and loans on people who we need (and who we need to stay in NZ) is counter-productive. If they get a massive income benefit from the increased training, then they pay tax on a higher threshold.

            [edit] argh crap, that’s exactly what you said. My bad – busy day at the office

          • muzza 2.2.2.1.2

            Who officially owns the student debt , these days?

    • Murray Olsen 2.3

      Chomsky claims that one of the main purposes of student loans was to discourage activism, both during and after the university years. When the government can arbitrarily change the interest rates, repayment thresholds, and minimum payments, any debtor is certainly in a vulnerable position.

      The whole idiotic scheme should be done away with. University can be paid for via progressive taxation, or maybe even some form of work bonding. As it stands, someone setting up as a dentist, for example, basically has a mortgage to pay before they even start earning. This cost is pushed onto the wider community through increased professional charges. Taxpayers still pay for tertiary education indirectly anyway, so wouldn’t it be better to just pay for the study and maybe even benefit from said dentist working at a public clinic for a couple of years?

  3. “Middle East a hot topic as McCully meets Kerry”

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10885007

    Yeah we get it. We were us bitches, then we weren’t for a bit, now we are again.

    • Morrissey 3.1

      McCULLY: Mr. Secretary of State, I hear the Arabs are revolting.

      KERRY: Revolting? They’re utterly disgusting, noisome, beastly, loathsome, monstrous, obnoxious, odious, hideous, foul and frightful.

      • Populuxe1 3.1.1

        Gosh, that must be why the Democrats have been pushing for a two state solution since the Clinton presidency.

        • Morrissey 3.1.1.1

          You know nothing. Do some reading, fool.

          • ghostrider888 3.1.1.1.1

            some reading below Morrissey

            • Morrissey 3.1.1.1.1.1

              Thank you, my friend. I’ll have a look when I get back from downtown. Have to go now.

          • Populuxe1 3.1.1.1.2

            Actually if YOU do some reading (other than the Protocols or whatever it is you usually read), the US hasn’t stopped calling for a two state solution, they are in fact warning it must come soon before Israel goes too far.

            http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2013/05/why-kerry-was-wrong-to-say-the-two-state-solution-is-nearly-dead/275758/

            • Morrissey 3.1.1.1.2.1

              Actually if YOU do some reading (other than the Protocols or whatever it is you usually read),

              There you go again, attempting to smear instead of argue your corner. If you had any credibility, perhaps that crude jibe would have annoyed me.

              • Populuxe1

                Not really, I just like winding you up because I don’t like you

                • Morrissey

                  Not really, I just like winding you up because I don’t like you

                  No need to admit that you’re not serious; that’s been obvious for a long time. But why the personal animosity? That’s intriguing.

                  Do you often just start hating on people away from this Second Life forum?

                  • Populuxe1

                    No, but your hysterical Israel conspiracies incorporating any remotely Jewish celebrity beyond simply stating: Israel is a country in the Middle East and is doing bad things to further its interests, does mark you out as having a special antipathy for Jews. I don’t particularly like bigots. Nor do I like your relentless monologue of vitriol. You have nothing nice to say nor anything particularly constructive to contribute apart from one-sided anti-Semitic rants and acid bitchfests about broadcasters for th emost trite reasons.

                    • Morrissey

                      It’s been the usual very bad day for poor old Populuxe1, and it just keeps getting worse. Let’s enjoy—if that’s the word for how one feels after encountering the outpourings of the deranged—his latest splash about in the depths of depraved rhetoric….

                      …your hysterical Israel conspiracies incorporating any remotely Jewish celebrity beyond simply stating: Israel is a country in the Middle East and is doing bad things to further its interests, does mark you out as having a special antipathy for Jews.

                      Of course, that unhinged barking says nothing about me or anything I have said. It does, sadly, say quite a lot about the unfortunate fellow who was driven to write it.

                      Nor do I like your relentless monologue of vitriol. You have nothing nice to say nor anything particularly constructive to contribute….

                      Yes I do, actually. And you know it. You go on obsessing on the bits that enrage you, though. I’m actually looking forward to it, in a grisly sort of way.

                      …. apart from one-sided anti-Semitic rants and acid bitchfests about broadcasters for th emost [sic] trite reasons.

                      Again with the anti-Semitic allegations. I challenge anyone—not you, Populuxe1, you’re not capable of rational argument—-to find one thing I have ever written that is anti-Semitic.

    • Murray Olsen 4.1

      So? The BBC one deals with a number of proposals to ameliorate global warming, proposals being the key word.
      The Guardian one gives a few symbols on a map, without any details. To look at one example, “increased precipitation” presumably means cloud seeding. This has been around for years, isn’t done on a global scale, and isn’t highly effective.
      You ominously mentioned some program that had been going for fifty years. I see no evidence of anything like that.
      However, there are several things which have been done and are still happening that affect climate over quite large areas. We can begin with CO2 and CH4 in the atmosphere, which have a truly global effect. Deforestation, forestation, urbanisation and the flooding of huge areas for hydroelectricity all have marked effects over reasonably large areas, but are not generally considered as being geoengineering.
      I still have no real idea what you’re on about.

  4. Morrissey 5

    LIARS OF OUR TIME
    No. 9: NewstalkZB PR dept

    * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

    “News you NEED! Fast, fair, accurate!”

    * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

    —NewstalkZB, just before the news begins.

    See also….
    No. 8: Simon Bridges: “I don’t mean to duck the question”

    Open mike 20/05/2013


    No. 7: Nigel Morrison: “Quite frankly, they’ve been VERY tough.”
http://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-15052013/#comment-633295

    No. 6: NZ Herald PR dept: “Congratulations—you’re reading New Zealand’s best newspaper.”
    http://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-13052013/#comment-632598

    No. 5: Rawdon Christie: “…a FORMIDABLE replacement, it seems, is Claudette Hauiti.”
    http://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-13052013/#comment-632594
    No. 4: Willie and J.T.: “The X-Factor. Nah, nah, there’s some GREAT talent there!”

    Open mike 06/05/2013


    No. 3: John Key: “Yeah we hold MPs to a higher standard.”
http://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-06052013/#comment-628703
    No. 2: Colin Craig: “Oh, I have a GREAT sense of humour.” (TV3 News, 24 April 2013)

    Open mike 25/04/2013


    No. 1: Barack Obama: “Margaret Thatcher was one of the great champions of freedom and liberty.”
http://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-19042013/#comment-621738

  5. karol 6

    A very good post on Waitakere News about the government’s now-you-see-it;now-you-don’t food in schools policy.

    • while seeing the case for food in schools..(aside from qualms about it being used by fonterra (and other unhealthy ‘food’-peddlers) to hook the young generations on their vile/cancer-causing-products)..

      ..isn’t such a move too much ambulance at bottom of cliff..?

      ..and would not so much of that clear need be obviated by the institution of a guaranteed minimum income for all citizens..?

      ..that would come close to ending poverty with one fell stroke..

      ..so my question would be..why not focus on moving the common-will towards that concept..?

      ..and my concerns are that the bandaid to poverty that food-in-schools will be..will be deemed for far too long to be ‘having done enough’ to fight the poverty that blights nz in 2013..

      ..that the energy of that common will/concern-at-poverty will be dissapated before the real reforms needed will/can be enacted..

      ..phillip ure..

      • Populuxe1 6.1.1

        How is Fonterra an unhealthy food peddler again?

        • Colonial Viper 6.1.1.1

          Is your new baby a calf or a human? Does your new baby prefer human proteins and enzymes to grow or cow proteins and enzymes to grow?

          • Populuxe1 6.1.1.1.1

            Hmmm. So I’m guessing fuck all those mothers whose milk has dried up for medical reasons, or because they are in the middle of a famine, or they’ve had a double mastectomy, or they can’t for other reasons, or they don’t want to (I’m old-fashioned enough to think women should have the choice), or the father is raising the baby on his own because the mother has died in childbirth, or any one of a number of reasons. And the ant-milk hysteria is farcical, as ably demonstrated by the many generations who have grown up on cow milk.

            • Colonial Viper 6.1.1.1.1.1

              you got me there fair and square, having cow’s milk is indeed better than starving the baby on nothing during a famine.

            • phillip ure 6.1.1.1.1.2

              populuxe:..first:..there are other options than just cow and breast milk..

              ..and yes..’generations’ also puffed furiously on cigarettes..

              ..put morphine/opium in cough medicines..

              ..(the list goes on and on..)

              ..surely you can see that is not really a rational argument/rejoinder you have proffered..?

              ..and like i said..do yr own research..make up yr own mind..

              ..just try to keep yr mind open to new knowledge..

              ..phillip ure

        • phillip ure 6.1.1.2

          there is increasing evidence of the ill-effects from consuming baby-cow food..and bye-products..

          ..i have lots of that evidence at my place..under ‘vegan’..or if averse to going there..

          ..just google the question..and be overwhelmed by the evidence..

          ..don’t just take my word for it..eh..?

          ..phillip ure..

          • phillip ure 6.1.1.2.1

            and a jaw-dropping (local-focused) fact from that evidence..is that the cancers increasingly being linked to dairy consumption..

            ..are cancers that we here in nz have at world-beating rates..

            ..and funny story..!..i think we are second in the world for consumption of that dairy…

            ..so..when you have that knowledge/awareness/warning locked in..

            …it is easy to move to the opinion..that as far as health outcomes as adults are concerned..

            ..fonterra had may as well be handing out free-cigarettes to those schools..

            ..the concept/fonterra-plan is the same..hook ’em while they’re young..

            ..cancer..?..what cancer..?

            ..(and like i said..don’t take my word for it..do yr own research if doubting the veracity of these claims..

            ..and then start spreading the word..eh..?..

            ..but be warned..under the current repressive-laws..you could be opening yrslf up to charges of ‘economic-treason’..eh..?

            ..for even writing/talking/warning of such matters..

            ..wither free-speech..?..eh..?..)

            ..phillip ure..

            • phillip ure 6.1.1.2.1.1

              and as compelling evidence of the benefits to be had from shedding that dairy-habit..

              …have you seen bill clinton lately..?

              ..whoar..!..eh..?..he’s never looked that good..!..as fit as a jailhouse-rat..

              ..his daughter talked him into trying an animal-flesh/dairy-free diet..

              ..and ‘bubba?’…has now become “bubba!”

              ..and his heart-issues have all cleared up..

              ..go figure..!..eh..?

              ..phillip ure..

              • Populuxe1

                How can you tell a vegan? Don’t worry, they’ll tell you. Worse than Evangelical Christians.

                • how can you tell a reactionary-carnivore/dairyvore..?

                  ..they don’t have to speak..usually the high-blood-pressure-flushed-face/short-breath/power-belly/old-skin will give them away..

                  ..eh..?

                  phillip ure..

                • Morrissey

                  He even tells the simplest jokes wrongly.

                  Bad day keeps on gettin’ badder.

                  • so..morrissey..i take it you don’t follow the dietary-recommendations of the person who’se name/persona you have borrowed..?

                    ..um..!..why actually did you choose that name to borrow..?..that not eating animals thing being so important to morrissey..eh..?

                    ..do you lean into his all round glumness..?

                    ..(i’m having an irony-moment here..heh..!..)

                    phillip ure..

                    • Morrissey

                      It’s the music and the politics, phillip.

                      Unfortunately, I lack my namesake’s strength of character and have remained something of a carnivore.

    • Clockie 7.1

      Thanks for posting the link to that high quality recording of When The Music’s Over, Marty. Really enjoyed that.

      • marty mars 7.1.1

        Thanks Clockie yes I loved it too – watched it 3 times and I’m loving it – Ray was amazing on that keyboard, amazing – and as a group wow!!!

    • ghostrider888 7.2

      R.I.P Crystal Ship

      • i always found the doors (especially morrison) somewhat pedestrian/one-dimensional/white-boy/cartoon-rock..(especially compared to their competition/compatriots..)

        ..(a slightly heavier version of the eagles..?..monkees..?..)

        ..and given the signature organ-hooks came from manzarek..

        ..where does that leave morrison..?

        ..aside from flopping out his drug-addled wang a few-times on stage..?..and being generally ‘messy’ in his drug-use..

        ..what else did he do that any halfway competent bar-band lead singer couldn’t do..?

        ..phillip ure..

        • Matt 7.2.1.1

          Ha, Neil Finn’s an OBE and you’re concerned that JM reverence is unwarranted?

  6. Rodel 8

    It must disappoint Maori National party supporters (I’m assuming there are some) that they aren’t allowed to have a candidate in the up-coming byelection. ).

    Sure the result is predictable but it is still showing indifference if not contempt for those who would like to exercise their right to have their say in the democratic process and also those Maori who would like to stand as candidates for National.

    I guess the message is for National supporters is to tick the Maori party candidate while Labour, Mana and the Greens? split the vote.

    • Morrissey 8.1

      I don’t think Maori voters are as malleable and gullible as the bewildered folks of Epsom. It’s a Labour win, guaranteed. Look for the almost total collapse of the Key regime’s stooge party.

      • Rodel 8.1.1

        Epsom was a clear case of Johnnymandering…wait for the PM to have a cuppa with the Maori Party candidate …Honemandering?

  7. Morrissey 9

    Gavin Ellis is Mogadon
    National Radio, 11:59 a.m., Tuesday May 21, 2013.

    I’m listening to that bore Gavin Ellis droning on in his utterly uninteresting fashion. I don’t know how Kathryn Ryan manages to stay awake. I swear she yawned a couple of times as this dullard bored on.

    Surely there are more interesting media commentators available in this country.

    Surely?

    • Populuxe1 9.1

      I can only hope that if you were comatose you would lay off the vitriol. It get’s tiresome after, well, actually, almost immediately.

  8. Jeepers, Jim Bolger I applaud your speech.

    Not only did he canvass the pain of the Anzus rift over New Zealand’s anti-nuclear laws and his part in the healing, he used the occasion to vent about the perils of deregulation leading to the global financial crisis in 2008, on multinationals making billions and paying little tax, and the responsibility of free traders to be focused on people.

    He was playing to an audience that wasn’t there, that was obvious from the eye-rolling going on at the reception and the murmurs about it afterwards.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10884963

    I found this bit interesting too in a disturbing way

    Ten New Zealand companies with expertise in security and intelligence technology will spend several days at the New Zealand Embassy in Washington this week collaborating in a bid to expand their work with United States government agencies and companies.

    • muzza 10.1

      Hey Marty – always be weary of anything an ex-politician attmpts to take credit for, especially one who played a core role in the destruction of so many lives, he deserves the gallows, nothing less!

      Agree about the intelligence sharing, being disturbing, and that’s the little they want the plebs to know about.

      The grid is formed, and was dropped a long time ago, yet people are still discussing, *rights/privacy/constitution*, and so on!

      That’s all part of history now, cell phones, internet, smart meters, cloud et al, the control to legislate change at the whim of technology companies, and the control of the tech companies to enforce later versions of the technology through *retiring* earlier versions etc.

      Technology will be the end of most people (it already is), thats a certainty, rather like the designed financial collapse/bankrupcy of NZ/Major cities, it has to happen, it can’t be any other way!

    • Murray Olsen 10.2

      What struck me most about that piece is that the writer considers eye rolling and murmurs as an appropriate response to the issues Bolger mentioned. It really is “let them eat cake stuff”.

    • Draco T Bastard 11.1

      Couldn’t find anything about a Marxist perspective of the link provided to Brian S Roper’s blog but I assume you mean this one.

      • ghostrider888 11.1.1

        Thanks Draco. a much-needed sabbatical coming methinks; catch up on some book-reading.

  9. ghostrider888 12

    from the tele, and the radio;
    -Pacific peoples, soaring unemployment; 19-24 year-olds- 43.5%
    -Pacific children in poverty- 40%

    Parata’s inane response- “upskill”, “work harder”.

    China – U.S tech trade tensions; “a lose- lose for Obama” (and the ‘I’ word has been raised re Barack).

    China – E.U trade wars over Solar Panel import duties; “a great mistake”.

    Nietzsche and Taoism

    (our prayers are with the PRC).

  10. Morrissey 13

    A not so subtle propaganda exercise
    Ottolenghi’s Mediterranean Feast, Episode 6: Israel
    Channel 4, played on Choice TV, Thursday 16 May 2013, 8:30 p.m.

    When he unleashed his infamous foam-flecked rant against Hezbollah a few years ago, Anthony Bourdain established himself as the most aggressively ignorant of all celebrity chefs. The London-domiciled Israeli chef and restaurateur Yotam Ottolenghi is without doubt a more intelligent, personable and humane person than the coke-snorting, foul-mouthed, self-involved Bourdain.

    Ottolenghi’s exploration of the delights of Israeli cuisine made for a highly interesting, engaging show. However, it contained a couple of outrageous, politically charged statements, one of them an outright lie, and some carefully managed evasions of the actual situation in Israel.

    The outright lie comes first, as we see Ottolenghi speeding along a highway, enthusing about the hour of gustatory pleasures ahead of us: “I was brought up in the capital—JERUSALEM,” he shouts excitedly. “But the most dynamic city in Israel is Tel Aviv!” Cut to evocative shots of vibrant, bustling cafetarias and bars. It might be Italy, or Portugal, or Barcelona.

    It seems like a small matter, an oversight, a mere mistake perhaps, to say that Jerusalem is the capital of Israel. But Ottolenghi understood perfectly well what he was saying. Deliberately, flagrantly insisting that Jerusalem is the capital of Israel was the first of several little dishonesties to mar this program and take it beyond mere entertainment into the more sinister realm of state propaganda.

    Ottolenghi might be an obvious and shameless liar, but he is a great guide to food and Israeli culture. The food he shows us is mouthwateringly gorgeous: hummus, flat breads, beef shakshuka, herb and ginger fishcakes with beetroot sauce, fig and goat-cheese tart with lemon icing, tomato and pomegranate salad. The men who cook these dishes are characters in their own right: smiling, affable, good-humored. But on his way out to the pomegranate farm of a chef called Shlomo, Ottolenghi casually drops another of his little propaganda bombs; as their car speeds past lush fields, he remarks that “until recently, this land was largely uncultivated.”

    In Ottolenghi World, Jerusalem is simply beautiful, and ancient and mystical; an aesthetic and spiritual experience. We see extended coverage of Ottolenghi gathering herbs in the hills, which are, needless to say, picturesque, quiet and Palästinensischerfrei. There is not the slightest hint that there might be anything wrong; all views of the illegal, ugly, internationally condemned annexation wall have been meticulously excluded.

    Then it’s back to the restaurant for pancakes stuffed with apple, sugar and goat’s cheese.

    Occupation? What occupation?

    • Populuxe1 13.1

      He’s an Israeli. As far as most Israelis are concerned, Jerusalem is the capital even if it isn’t internationally recognised as such. Hell, most Aucklanders are convinced Auckland is the capital of New Zealand. Not sure what your problem with Bourdain is – not enough Aryan baby blood in the motza balls?

      • Morrissey 13.1.1

        He’s an Israeli. As far as most Israelis are concerned, Jerusalem is the capital…

        No, most Israelis, except the likes of Binjamin Netanyahu and the terminally stupid, are aware that Tel Aviv is the capital.

        …even if it isn’t internationally recognised as such.

        Jerusalem (Al Quds) is not the capital of Israel. Except in your head.

        Hell, most Aucklanders are convinced Auckland is the capital of New Zealand.

        No they are not.

        Not sure what your problem with Bourdain is –

        Bourdain is a fool. You need to find out something about him. (Something else you know nothing about.)

        …not enough Aryan baby blood in the motza balls?

        Wow, that was funny. No, not really.

        • Populuxe1 13.1.1.1

          So, in short, the vast majority of Israelies as practicing Jews are “terminally stupid” because as mandated by their faith in their worldview Jerusalem is the capital of the Jewish nation. And you don’t like anyone remotely popular. Especially if they’re Jewish….

          • Morrissey 13.1.1.1.1

            So, in short, the vast majority of Israelies as practicing Jews are “terminally stupid”…

            No, but I think we have established with a fair degree of certainty that you are.

      • ghostrider888 13.1.2

        on form today, we see, Pop. 😀 (are you reducing your carbon footprint).

        • Morrissey 13.1.2.1

          Don’t tease him, ghostrider. He’s got the ‘flu, and is thoroughly discombobulated.

  11. The Herald is reporting that the GCSB has been cleared of the illegal spying on New Zealanders by the Inspector General of Intelligence and Security (http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10885098)

    Of the 88 cases mentioned 27 were found to have had no information intercepted.

    The remaining were said to involve the collection of metadata and the Inspector-General formed the view that there had arguably been no breach, noting once again that the law is unclear.

    Metadata is the information surrounding a communication as opposed to the communication itself. For instance in an email it would involve the sender, receiver, and time of transmission. The content of the email itself would not be included.

    I am not sure that the legal situation is unclear, section 14 of the GCSB Act prohibits the “intercepting the communications of a person (not being a foreign organisation or a foreign person) who is a New Zealand citizen or a permanent resident”. Overseas cases have always treated the metadata (for instance a phone number) as less worthy of privacy.

    But if this is the case why doesn’t the Government just clarify this rather than give the GCSB open access?

    • Dv 14.1

      I see they were investigating weapons of mass destruction.

      Those bloody pressure cookers are every where.

    • Rhinocrates 14.2

      But if this is the case why doesn’t the Government just clarify this rather than give the GCSB open access?

      Because clarification is the last thing they want – instead, they want an uncertainty maintained and excuses – and a hand-picked crony has given exactly that. This is just perpetuating what’s already gone before.

      What this country needs is a constitutional watchdog with teeth, but the Governor General is just another sock puppet and considering Goff’s actions over Peter Ellis and Ahmed Zaoui, as long as he’s in Labour, the “main opposition party” won’t do anything to change that once it’s “their turn” either.

    • SpaceMonkey 14.3

      “But if this is the case why doesn’t the Government just clarify this rather than give the GCSB open access?”

      Because the news item is a puff-piece designed to try and put the issue to bed. In the next few days I expect we’ll hear John Key saying that he’s satisfied nothing illegal has happened with the GCSB and the law change will ensure this is never an issue again. And he’s right… it won’t be, because from now on the spying on NZers will be 100% Pure-ly Legit.

    • Arfamo 14.4

      If there was arguably no breach, arguably, there was. So Mr Fletcher could also presumably have reported simply that the conclusion is that GCSB may have breached the law.

    • muzza 14.5

      MS, your barking up the wrong tree if you think the intelligence services, give a rats, about adhering to legislative piffle!

      The times they are a changin are way past concerning, but I’m pleased the agenda is becoming clear enough, that even the most stubborn mind should be starting to stir!

      Banking/Military/Intelligence, dominates this world, and they’re tightening the net!

      • reversevampire 14.5.1

        We’re through the looking glass here people.

        • Tigger 14.5.1.1

          ‘Arguably’. Says it all about Shonkey’s gummint. So much is ‘arguable’ in his world.

  12. AwakeWhileSleeping 15

    It’s so similar to Work and Income it’s spooky. The furniture and colour scheme I mean.

    http://tinyurl.com/par3jpj

  13. Rhinocrates 16

    Imagine my complete lack of surprise:

    “GCSB cleared of illegal spying”

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10885098

    EDIT: Mickey, snap!

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