Open mike 21/12/2011

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, December 21st, 2011 - 70 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

Open mike is your post. For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the link to Policy in the banner).

Step right up to the mike…

70 comments on “Open mike 21/12/2011”

  1. I thought of Gosman this morning as I was watching the latest Keiser report. Here you go cowboy hat boy. Some education:

    • Colonial Viper 1.1

      I always enjoy it on youtube 🙂

    • AAMC 1.2

      This made me think of Gosman too

      “But capitalism without the prospect of failure is not any kind of market economy. We are running a large-scale, nontransparent, and dangerous government subsidy scheme for the benefit primarily of a very few, extremely wealthy people….

      We should learn from both the WaMu and the Occupy movement. In both cases, the lesson is the same: concentrated financial power is a gift that keeps on giving – but not to you.”

      Simon Johnson, a former chief economist of the IMF – thinks we should learn from #occupy, hmmm stalled huh.

      • Gosman 1.2.1

        Where have I ever argued that the responses to the financial crisis is the correct one. In fact I believe I have stated numerous times that Governments should NOT bail out corporations and/or banks. They should be left to fail. Of course that would mean more short term pain for people especially those on the bottom of the heap but it would be for the benefit of the economy as a whole in the long term. Capitalism requires business failures. It is politics that stops this from taking it’s natural course.

        • fmacskasy

          “Of course that would mean more short term pain for people especially those on the bottom of the heap but it would be for the benefit of the economy as a whole in the long term. “

          Your lack of concern and empathy for other people is beyond my comprehension…

          Can you explain to us why it should be the people “on the bottom of the heap” who should suffer the consequences of extreme capitalism?

          That’s like saying that it was ok for Stalin to murder 30 million of his fellow contrymen/women, “for the benefit of the [socialist] economy as a whole in the long term.”

          In other words, the end justifies the means?

          • Gosman

            Ah Frank, I’m not sure I should bother answering your questions because if you were interested in getting to read different opinions from your own narrow view you would allow them on your own blog.

            I will humour you a little by asking you a couple of questions though. What was the purpose of Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae and who did these organisations ultimately benefit?

            • fmacskasy

              Interesting how you deflect other peoples’ questions – and then have the cheek to demand answers to yours.

              “Ah Frank, I’m not sure I should bother answering your questions because if you were interested in getting to read different opinions from your own narrow view you would allow them on your own blog.”

              You mean, apart from the 193 posts you’ve made on my Blog, Gosman?

              Or the article I reposted from Brian Edward’s blog (by permission), written by Kimbo – a staunch critic of Labour?

              Yeah… not many, if any, eh?

              Now, getting back to what I wrote above, and which you might care to address,

              . “

              “Of course that would mean more short term pain for people especially those on the bottom of the heap but it would be for the benefit of the economy as a whole in the long term

              Your lack of concern and empathy for other people is beyond my comprehension…

              Can you explain to us why it should be the people “on the bottom of the heap” who should suffer the consequences of extreme capitalism?

              That’s like saying that it was ok for Stalin to murder 30 million of his fellow contrymen/women, “for the benefit of the [socialist] economy as a whole in the long term.”

              In other words, the end justifies the means?

        • Bored

          Top marks Gos, I agree, let the bastards go to the wall. Lets face it if it were the rest of us we would be dropped from a great height.

          Now, starter for 10…putting one and one together “It is politics that stops this” so the politicians are in the pay of the:
          a. Banksters
          b. Banksters mates
          c. They are the banksters.

          • Gosman

            No the problem is that the Bankers have convinced the politicians that if they go to the wall the economy will be irretrievably harmed. While not true it is true that there is a risk of a serious economic downturn such as the great depression if the banking system freezes up, This tends to harm both rich and poor but as the poor have less cushion protecting them they obviously suffer more. This is the reason that bankers can hold a political gun against the heads of Government to protect them from going bust. Now I agree if they use that argument then they don’t have a stong argument for less Government interference in their business. That is why I think they should be left to fail.

            • Colonial Viper

              Too big too fail = too big to exist.

              Break the big banks up, nationalise the core infrastructure parts, segregate the casino investment banking divisions, return the power of printing money to the Crown; these steps will ensure that the financial terrorists cannot hold our country to ransom.

        • mik e

          Gooseman your blind faith to your ideology shows how little you know about economics the great depression that went on for twenty years in the USA was caused by letting banks fail the best solution research has shown is to nationalize banks and let them return to profit using printed money to free up capital flow.
          Nowhere in the world has your theory worked.
          Air New Zealand is a perfect example of how it is done.
          New Zealand nationalized banks in the 1930s under labour brought them back to profitability and our economy only suffered a 5 year depression.
          Lucky we didn’t have your lot in power then.

          • Colonial Viper

            You’ve made the mistake of thinking that the current banking crisis is a crisis of liquidity (hence your solution of freeing up cash flows in the banking sector).

            Its not. Its a crisis of solvency. Almost every major investment bank out there, from JP Morgan to BNP Paribas to Deutschebank would be bankrupt tonight if they were to forced to mark their assets to market prices, and to bring their hidden off balance sheet liabilities on to the balance sheet.

            In a situation like this, printing money cannot help.

    • Gosman 1.3

      You do realise that RT is the equivalent of Fox news for leftist conspiacy theorists don’t you? Oh wait… that is why you watch it.

  2. Jenny 2


    The word that John Banks used yesterday to describe his return to the House of Representatives.


    The leader of a party who a few months ago he wasn’t even a member of.

    Appointed to his position by another person who also at the time of his selection was also not a member.

    What other one word descriptions could describe this farcical anointment?

    (Representative wouldn’t be one of them).

  3. tc 3

    Some more balanced reporting on RNZ this morning over the akl wharf strike, interviewing Barnett of akl chamber of commerce …… other side, just Barnett who’s quite frankly a whining born to rule tosser offering no insight into the actual issues the strike is about.

    Why not get the unions and members view they are after all the ones losing the most here.

    • Yep one of the Standard authors should do a post to dispel Cactus Kate’s spin on the issue.

      • KJT 3.1.1

        Yep. I don’t think many right wingers would be happy if their job required them to be on call for 365 days of the year at 8 hours notice, the employer telling you at random, if you could have a weekend with your family, or not . With only 40 hours of each week paid for!

        Basically POAL want the whole workforce to be always on call without paying for them to be standing by ready to work. Like Mcd’s with their expecting you to be available at 12 hours or less notice, but they only guarantee 12 hours per week to their “full time” staff.

        • Fotran

          Show me where to sign. I’ll take it at that pay, or even less to have such a job.

        • Bored

          Never ceases to amaze me that here in the private sector we club together for discounts as buying groups, we use restrictive practices (legal and “dubious”) to ensure that we have advantageous terms of trade, and we negotiate from a position of strength. Sounds like what Unions do, they are merely following good commercial practices to get the best price and to restrict competition.

          Its also what those other great Unions do, the Chartered Accountant, the Law Society, Colleges of Surgeons etc etc

    • Gosman 3.2

      They had the Union on yesterday along with the Employer.

  4. dv 4

    Govt’s consultants’ bill $375m and rising

    Consultants were paid as much as $275 an hour or $2500 a day, according to figures released by 31 government departments and agencies under the Official Information Act.

    Some departments are increasing spending on consultants while getting rid of workers who, across all the departments involved, make an average of $33 an hour based on a 40-hour week.

  5. vto 5

    So every person to a tee in Christchurch is appalled at the back-dated 14% pay rise given to the Council’s CEO (making 45% rise in 4 years) and all bloody Brownlee can do is say “button up Councillors and get in behind your mayor or some of you will get the sack”.

    What planet is this ape on?

    It is identical to his uniteral increase of the pay rates to the CERA overlords like Jenny Shipley some months ago.

    Brownlee also claims that “people don’t know everything that’s going on” and should just shut up.

    These events show that Brownlee has lost touch. Or perhaps that the power of his office is going to his head. Just remember that Brownlee – it is the office and not you which has the power.

  6. logie97 6

    Just what are the police (or journalists) implying?

    First, cell phones, now the bible – careful people what you have on the front seat
    of your car.

    “Devoted Christian had Bible with him in fatal crash…”

  7. AAMC 7

    More on those lazy stalled occupiers, Occupy LSX takes it’s 4th space, an old court, where they’ll put the 1% on trial, here are pictures..

  8. KJT 8

    Even the apologist for National, Herald, now, admits they stuffed around with the Rena salvage for at least 4 days.

    • Colonial Viper 8.1

      Yep just as you said at the time. I guess just before Christmas is the right time to release this kind of news.

      • Draco T Bastard 8.1.1

        Just before christmas and just after the election.

        • Ianupnorth

          Funny that, we have just had a major change in how we are expected to operate, all done without proper consultation, all released in the holiday season – over half of those affected won’t have a clue till mid-January.

    • Jackal 8.2

      Yesterday, Maritime NZ reported another oil spill from Rena.

      Rena update (update 136)

      This morning’s flight noted patches of oil, and a 3 km long metallic sheen about 20 metres wide heading northwest. Patches of rainbow sheen were visible for up to 7-8km off the western side of Mōtītī Island about half a kilometre from the coast. A SCAT team is checking Maketū spit and Pāpāmoa beach today.

      Just a couple of days after the ban on collecting Shellfish was lifted. There will be no MSM reporting on this because the all important tourist dollar has to be protected.

    • logie97 8.3

      … too concerned about their tickets for the the Rugby World Cup I suspect. Weather was fine, see was calm, “not a problem, we’ll discuss it next week during the celebrations.”

  9. Jackal 9

    Speaking of MSM not reporting on things… even after it was known 500 people had died in the Philippines flooding, none of the main television news services reported on this event. It wasn’t until yesterday when 652 people were confirmed to have died that Prime News finally reported on the flooding. In my opinion that’s three days after they should have. What are they afraid of I wonder… that people might start waking up to the effects of climate change?

  10. Draco T Bastard 10

    More incompetence from this government and Auckland ratepayers get to pick up the bill.

    Auckland has picked up the Government’s slack and given it a multimillion-dollar bailout because of a massive transport funding shortfall.

    It obviously wasn’t enough that they massively increased the costs of Auckland Council through the super-city implementation incompetence.

    • Marjorie Dawe 10.1

      This is an interesting way to balance the books. Lets just make someone else pay for it because we are incapable of handling the budget.

  11. dv 12

    Late breaking shock
    Governor-General Sir Jerry Mateparae has just delivered the Speech
    which was the 2008 speech

    The National-lead Government is promising to spend its second term building a more competitive economy, reducing debt, creating jobs and lifting incomes

    I dont know how that happened says Key.

    Tolley has been asked to check why.

    Inside comment is that there are so few Public Servant, nobody checked.

  12. No mention in the Speech from the Throne about policy for seniors.
    I guess they’re ignoring them because they are all “dying out” 😉

    • logie97 13.1

      We are a nation of sheep.
      After the Governor General’s delivery, he departed with ceremony and the elected members slowly filed back into the chamber. As they made their way back, they were greeted by a kapa haka group. Most continued on their way to take up their seats and then the cameras went back outside to the procession. One member must have decided to move over to meet and hongi with the group. And so the procession began – every subsequent elected member went over to meet-and-greet. (Nice touch?)

      • Bored 13.1.1

        No, could’nt be…Shonkers was off in a hurry to delivery Christmas presents (little blond barbie dolls dressed in blue rosettes) to disadvantaged children in some Close in South Auckland. There was a bevvy of photographers in to, and a TV film crew.

  13. randal 14

    hah this is fun.
    hooton and his crew of sausage roll molesters instituted the permanent campaign.
    so now I’m glad there is something to do all summer.
    better than the cricket.
    tee he.

  14. Pete 15

    Bryce Edwards gives an area-by-area analysis of how Labour lost the party vote in Dunedin South.

  15. drongo 16

    Graeme Edgeler says the possibility of Bennett losing her seat and getting kicked out of Parliament is pretty slim, but surely given the stakes Labour needs to take the punt:

    • Roy 16.1

      It’s a fair bit of money though. I’d love to see Bennett turfed out as much as anyone, but it is a lot to punt.

      • drongo 16.1.1

        Yes, but it’s a matter of priorities: what’s more important? Stopping asset sales, or $30k? I think raising that amount wouldn’t be difficult in the circumstances. A decision just needs to be made now to go for it, then everyone gets cracking. Even if the odds, according some commentators, are low, we have to do it: the basis is to stop asset sales. This is what makes the situation different, exceptional.

        • Lanthanide

          And makes Labour look like sore losers trying any trick in the book to overthrow the will of the people.

          Good move.

          • drongo

            You call an electoral petition a “trick in the book”? It’s a legitimate means available under the law. So someone legitimately exercising rights of appeal under the law somehow means they’re “sore losers” or up to “tricks”? Legal avenues like an electoral petition are there for a reason. The logical extension of what you’re saying is that the electoral petition provision, while we have there, it should never be used because parties shouldn’t look like “sore losers” or get up to “tricks”. Get real.

  16. drongo 17

    This is interesting. Slater’s hoping Winston Peters dies. Why is he so nasty? He’s getting to be as nasty as Odgers.

    • McFlock 17.1

      why would you read either of their blogs?

      • drongo 17.1.1

        Ask an anarchist why they read white supremacist literature. Ask Odgers why she reads The Standard. (I have to say though that lately it’s been just brief glances and it’s getting harder and harder even doing that.)

        • McFlock

          Well, kudos to you for resisting the urge to soak your eyeballs in acid after reading such things.

    • mik e 17.2

      drongo Could be dierbeaties

    • Steve 17.3

      I could put up a picture of a drongo with anything I like in the background, but not here of course.
      That would get me banned, yet others can do lies with pictures drongo

      [lprent: Noone apart from authors can add pictures (or video now I fixed the bug) into the site. So you are suggesting something that you cannot do will get you banned? I realize you might be a bit challenged… But that?

      Links to other sites don’t worry the mods – but we don’t like pure link-whoring. Our view is that you can pay for advertisements. So you have to write some origional content to accompany the link. Writing an articulate sentence explaining why people would want to clip the link!. Ummm ok now I can understand your problem… ]

  17. AAMC 18

    Yep, definitely stalled. #D17

  18. Vicky32 19

    Just before christmas and just after the election.

    What happened to my reply? I can’t be arsed typing it all again..

  19. millsy 20

    Anyone notice that Pete George didnt post on this thread?

    [lprent: You cannot draw conclusions from such occurrances and even pointing it out will sometimes earn moderator warnings. Quite simply most people do not spend their lives online. Expecting people to be present all of the time is unreasonable (even moderators). It is often a start of the pwned (and variants) idiocy which leads to flamewars that are irritating to most readers – especially to moderators. ]

  20. prism 21

    On the thread Farewell NZ Institute we got a bit sidetracked by the reference to USA President Barack Obama. While trawling for some of my family information I came upon his family background. And for those interested in all the furore of whether he is a USA citizen etc here it is as detailed by William Addams Reitwiesner. link

    Ancestry of Barack Obama
    1 Barack Hussein Obama II, U.S. Senator from Illinois, U.S. President from 2009, b. Kapiolani Medical Center, Honolulu, Hawaii, 4 Aug. 1961,
    m. at Trinity United Church of Christ, Chicago, 3 Oct. 1992
    Michelle LaVaughn Robinson, b. Chicago 17 Jan. 1964, dau. of Frasier Robinson and of Marian Shields. Further details of her ancestry can be found here.

    2 Barack Hussein Obama, Ph. D., b. Alego, Kenya [on the shores of Lake Victoria], … 1936, senior economist in the Kenyan Ministry of Finance, d. Nairobi, Kenya, … 1982, bur. Alego m. Maui, Hawaii, 2 Feb. 1961, div. filed Honolulu, Hawaii Jan. 1964
    3 S[tanley] Ann Dunham, b. Wichita, Kansas, 29 Nov. 1942, d. Straub Clinic, Honolulu, Hawaii, 7 Nov. 1995 [SSDI 535-40-8522]

  21. OPEN LETTER: [deleted]

    [lprent: all very interesting. However it was a full cut and paste. And it wasn’t even up on Penny’s own site. Perhaps she should put it there and link to it from here with a teaser – like everyone else does. ]

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