Open Mike 22/11/2018

Written By: - Date published: 5:59 am, November 22nd, 2018 - 184 comments
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184 comments on “Open Mike 22/11/2018”

  1. Ed 1

    Chris Trotter nails it.
    What will you see when your child or grandchild asks about climate change “ what I need to know is – what did you do?” How will you respond?”

    “A prime minister determined to make Climate Change her generation’s nuclear-free moment could be doing all of this – and more. By the same token, however, a nation determined to “do something” about Climate Change has no need for guidance from above. The threat of an all-out nuclear exchange between the USA and the Soviet Union, a catastrophe from which no human-being on Earth would emerge unscathed, was all it had taken for hundreds-of-thousands of New Zealanders to commit themselves to making their country nuclear-free. Why, then, hasn’t the threat of the planet becoming uninhabitable by human-beings been enough to mobilise New Zealand citizens in the same way?

    Does the answer lie in a simple lack of faith in the ability of any one person – any single generation – to make any kind of difference? When a left-wing populist government declines to keep its promise to oppose the TPPA. When a Green Party Minister of Conservation refuses to protect her country’s pristine water resources. What realistic hope is there then that people’s voices, people’s votes, can make anything like the difference made by the nuclear-free movement of the early 1980s? Have we entered an age when words and gestures are as plentiful as sparrows, but deeds as rare as Hector’s Dolphins?

    When, on some unbearably hot day in the future, Neve asks her mother what she had to say about Climate Change, Jacinda will be able to answer: “Heaps!”. But, when her daughter follows-up her first question with a second; when Neve says: “That’s good, Mum, because everyone loved the way you talked. But what I need to know now is – what did you do?” How will Jacinda respond?”

    https://thedailyblog.co.nz/2018/11/22/where-is-the-mass-movement-against-climate-change/

    Heroes.

    • gsays 1.1

      Hi Ed, you ask “Why, then, hasn’t the threat of the planet becoming uninhabitable by human-beings been enough to mobilise New Zealand citizens in the same way?”
      Simply put we don’t want to move to an upmarket stone age life style.
      We like 15 choices of potato chips, fruit out of season from the other side of the world.
      We like getting plastic trinkets that are of interest for 24 hours.
      We are too comfortable.

      • Ed 1.1.1

        So many New Zealanders will wait till a storm floods their house or rips off their roof.
        They’ll wait till insurance companies won’t touch them.
        They’ll wait till droughts affect food production.
        They’ll wait till it’s too late.

        I hope you’re wrong….

        • gsays 1.1.1.1

          After waking up to fractional reserve banking, questioning official narratives on 9/11, seeing inequity everywhere (democracy vs power lobbyists have, the poor staying poor), got talking to a mate.

          He lives largely off grid, food supply, housing, thoroughly embedded in his community.
          The sentence that struck me was ‘even if we are wrong (climate change), what is wrong living in harmony and sustainably with the earth, eating seasonably and locally?’

        • SpaceMonkey 1.1.1.2

          In a nutshell… I believe so.

    • Bearded Git 1.2

      Trotter is right that Labour is doing very little for CC other than blather. Only the Greens are pushing this issue-as usual they are far ahead of the pack.

      Trotter’s comment “When a Green Party Minister of Conservation refuses to protect her country’s pristine water resources.” is misleading-he again shows his hatred of the Greens, the very people who ARE trying to organize a mass movement against CC that Trotter professes to support.

      Eugenie Sage simply permitted the extraction of a very very very tiny portion of NZ’s water for commercial use, an outcome irrelevant to CC.

      • Dennis Frank 1.2.1

        Also worth keeping in mind that her explanation was based on an existing right under the RMA, for an existing extraction. I can’t recall the exact details, but media commentary blaming her is ignorant of the fact that governments are normally obliged to tolerate established commerce. Legislation is probably required to eliminate current commercial contracts. Governments need a very good reason to even contemplate being that radical, let alone acting so totalitarian…

        • Sacha 1.2.1.1

          The law she is administering gives her no other choice. Changing the law is what I expect the Greens would be negotiating with Labour and Winston First.

        • mikesh 1.2.1.2

          Governments need to ascertain what is the right thing to do and do it, regardless of pressure from either lobbyists or from public opinion. The “people” are not always enlightened.

      • Southern Man 1.2.2

        Regarding your comment about Eugenie Sage… the volume of water exported may be small, but a rejection of the consent could have been symbolic – and she failed. It’s true that of all the NZ political parties, only the Greens have credible policy, but it’s tragic that Sage tripped at the first hurdle.

        • solkta 1.2.2.1

          It would have been symbolic but it would have also been illegal and open to judicial review. Sage was acting as a Crown Minister not not a Green MP and so had to follow the existing law and not Green Party policy.

          The relevant laws are currently under review but water is a complex issue that needs enduring management solutions not rushed through legislation. Even if the government had acted under urgency and changed the law, making that change retrospective would have been a breach of the the principles of natural justice. The applicants applied under the law as it stands and did their due diligence based on that and presumably applied in good faith. The Ministers job was to give the final sign off. It would be a hideous process to say “i’ll just put your application on hold while i change the law”.

          The Greens were very critical of National for using urgency and passing laws they knew to be incompatible with the Bill of Rights Act, it would be real shit for the Greens to start acting like them.

          • gsays 1.2.2.1.1

            I accept the position stated along the lines of the minister’s hands are tied.

            However we live in an era where following protocol and ‘ the file’s is not going to cut it.
            If the amounts of water were small, then that, to me, was a perfect time for a minister/leader to make a stand, to set an example, to make an important point.

            Ok, not a lot to do with CC, but a lot to do with single use plastic, water rights etc.

            • solkta 1.2.2.1.1.1

              So you think Sage should have resigned as minister? Or that the Greens take down the government if they did not enact urgent legislation?

              • One Two

                Something like that…Yes

                In absense of Sage taking a stand of defiance…which IMO she absolutely should have…

                The Greens are establishment…gatekeepers

                Part of the problem…

                • solkta

                  Gee that’s a lot to give up. A lot of people have put in a huge amount of work over thirty years to get the Greens in government, yet you would have them give this up over one small water resource consent.

                  • One Two

                    Believing westminster will enable or facilitate the required solutions is….well…also part of the problem…

                    The water consent showed only the obvious impotance of TG’s who are little more than a controlled opposition providing false hope and stealing valuable energy…

                    More than thirty years worth in some cases…to be where…essentially nowhere is the answer…

                    Sages action simply emphasised the ‘nowhere’!

                    • Wayne

                      If Green Ministers acted as you suggest, they wouldn’t be Ministers for long. To follow your approach would have the Green Party out of government again. Since NZ is still a country governed by law, not ministerial diktat.

                      While it is obvious I am no supporter of the Green Party, I can at least see their logic of trying to achieve change by being within the tent of government. Presumably they will achieve changes in the law, that at least in part reflect their concerns. Being out of government might maintain their purity, but it also means very little influence.

                      So long as the Greens are only a 10% party (or 20% of the governing 50%), then their say will also only be about 20%, particularly when the other part of government is NZF.

                      I presume that in 2020, the objective of the Greens will aim to be the sole partner of Labour. Even if they are only 20% of the government, that might purchase nearly 50% actual influence. Though Labour may not give way quite so easily.

                  • crashcart

                    Oft times we hear that the greens lose bargaining power in coalition talks because they don’t have the option of going with National. This ignores the option of not going with Labour and not propping up the government.

                    I don’t know that this was the particular issue they should have dug in over but the Greens need to be seen as more than a rubber stamp or they will never be able to flex their political power. At some stage they are going to have to say to Labour that they either make real movement on CC or they risk going to election.

                    • solkta

                      Yes the Greens will certainly need to stand firm once the Climate Commission is up and running and giving advice.

                    • solkta

                      The alternative to not having a Labour led government is a National led government. If the Greens don’t “prop up” Labour then NZF will work with National.

              • gsays

                Hi solkta, resigning sounds like the nuclear option and not what I was suggesting.
                As a minister she now has plenty of resources and personnel to enact her wishes.

                As one two eluded to, now that the greens have power, they become part of the establishment.
                That is why effective MPs (Sue Bradford for example) don’t last too long in Wellys.

                What I am wanting to see I suppose, is some imagination and more of an attitude of asking for forgiveness rather than permission.
                Tap into some of the young blood that is part of the green membership.

                Winston said it, and evidence is everywhere, the neo liberal way is failing, failing the environment and failing the citizenry.

                C’mon Greens, we can do this.

                • solkta

                  Sue Bradford didn’t last because she didn’t want to continue after losing the leadership thing to Metiria. People as narrow minded and rigid as Bradford don’t last long in any cooperative endeavor.

                  I’m not quite sure what it is you think that Sage should have done. If not the options that i suggested then what? Buy a t-shirt?

                  • gsays

                    i suppose one persons narrow minded and rigid is another’s principled and effective.

                    as to what could have been done by the minister, that is where the imagination comes in.

                    with the giant shadow of CC looming over us, we need more radical thinking and action from our pollies, especially the greens.

                    • Drowsy M. Kram

                      Strongly agree gsays, choosing to describe Dr Bradford as “narrow-minded and rigid”, rather than focussed and principled, says it all.

                      NZ needs more compassionate, committed radical thinkers and activists like Sue.

                      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sue_Bradford

                    • gsays

                      @drowsy, it is a shame that the likes of sue bradford are more effective outside parliament.
                      although i do think she was one of the most influential mps during her time.
                      getting section 59 repealed was good politics.
                      call me an optimist, headed into these ‘interesting times’ perhaps parliament can find space for committed, compassionate folk like dr bradford.

                      edit. thanks for the wiki link.
                      i now know she got two other bills passed as a backbencher, allowing mothers in jail to keep their babies for longer and 16 & 17 year olds to get adult minimum wage.
                      chur.

            • SaveNZ 1.2.2.1.1.2

              The ministers hand’s were not tied. She had a choice whether she was led to believe they were tied or given bad advice is better than pretending that granting the consent was the only option.

              For a start there was so few benefits, it should have been easy to turn down.

              They made 20 jobs redundant at the Auckland university library in areas that probably people struggle to find work in aka arts, music and so forth, but nobody in government cared about those lost jobs. But justifying given g a free water consent, that sets more dangerous precedents and political self sabotage to the Green Party is justified for jobs.

          • greywarshark 1.2.2.1.2

            sokta
            Godd points. In a cleft stick, the Greens.

            But I have doubts about Sage. Her idea of limiting waste in NZ by putting up tip fees was deficient as a practical move forward to the goal.

        • Bearded Git 1.2.2.2

          i hear what you are saying SM but read the posts above….i would certainly support a levy of 10c per litre on any spring water extracted whether exported or not…the proceeds to be used for climate change initiarives

    • WeTheBleeple 1.3

      Civ6 new expansion. Gathering Storm (Climate Change)

      https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2018/11/20/civilization-vi-gathering-storm-news/#more-615205

      I’m good at that game. At least I’ll be able to save a virtual planet.

      • gsays 1.3.1

        I love Civ 5. Have ‘invested days in it.
        Is Civ 6 an improvement?

        • WeTheBleeple 1.3.1.1

          That’s up for debate a lot. It is significantly different. Watch some youtube vids see what you think of it. I like it, but not so much as V once V was ‘finished’ with the expansions.

          The first expansion in VI made it a lot better, I expect Gathering Storm to polish it even further.

          It’s not that it’s bad – at all. But the variance can throw hardcore players who didn’t like so much change, and it still needs that final polish.

          • SpaceMonkey 1.3.1.1.1

            Agree with the “finished” Civ 5. Top game, arguably the best of the series.

            Took me a while to get my head around Civ 6 until the Rise and Fall expansion came out. I like the loyalty feature and the ability for cities to “flip” to other civs if the conditions are right. I tend to play the YaEMP map and the real city naming (based on where you settle) is a nice touch, and also how name of the city will change according to the civ controlling it, e.g. “Roma” if it’s under the Romans will change to “Rome” if taken over by the English.

            All up the Civ series still stands as one of my all time favourite computer games… been playing since the very first version back in 1991. Gathering Storm expansion looks like fun.

  2. Ed 2

    Bryan Bruce is an independent and brave New Zealand writer, author and thinker.
    He is spot on here in the threats we face from modern imperialism of all stripes.

    “….China is building its own Empire favouring the City of London approach – which is to say they are using money as the weapon of invasion.

    Can we build you a road? How are you off for infrastructure like water and sewage? Hey Australia – you’ve got minerals. How about we buy them from you ? Or better still set up joint ventures as we have done in many of parts of Africa to extract wealth from there. Can we help you Pacific Islanders with your fishing ? Or how about some Water Bottling plants New Zealand?

    No angry shots are being fired in this new kind of “one road ” Empire building . It’s invasion by stealth.

    Miss McConachy’s map of the world became redundant long ago. I’m not sure how I could draw you a modern version .

    Yes I can show you where the political boundaries of countries are – what I CAN’T show you is where the financial interests and wealth extraction operations of today’s Empires are located in the way Miss McConachy’s map once neatly coloured in the British Empire in red.

    But next time you go to an ATM machine have a look at the list of banks whose cards it takes. The new rulers of the world are closer than you think.”

    https://thedailyblog.co.nz/2018/11/21/guest-blog-bryan-bruce-striking-back-at-empires/

  3. WeTheBleeple 3

    Hosking claims New Zealand is a joke, not a player, as we have no cash.

    How’s that for a view reducing us to dollar value. Worthless are us.

    We have natural capital, far more valuable than all his sports car clad mates and their padded pants.

    Hosking is a cowardly little man afraid of losing share value in Hosking.

    • Morrissey 3.1

      Hosking claimed on air a couple of years ago that he had given Nicky Hager “a hard time” when he interviewed him on television.

      Nobody has so far come up with the evidence of that (no doubt epic) encounter.

    • Jimmy 3.2

      If Hosking is so unhappy with NZ, perhaps he should move overseas!

    • greywarshark 3.3

      Hosking is hard to listen to. But sometimes he says something worthwhile inadvertently! We have no cash. True. Because the wealthy want a lifestyle that NZ can’t afford. My Economics 101 tutor broke through my shell of NZ lack of understanding some years ago when he said that no country could raise itself into developed country status on agriculture. I thought what, surely not. But he was right and we have not achieved the developed country status by rational means, but by selling assets, abandoning decent living standards for all, and going for short-term gain, despite bad outcomes. Pushing the envelope, and then squeezing out NZ Post! It isn’t modern and fast enough for the world of wealth; it’s got to be tech now.

      The wealthy and ashpirational (the ones who burn us with their bent systems) have encouraged us to recklessly open our borders and cut our import taxes so we are flooded with stuff that is cheaper than we can make it. But in the normal way we would never be trying to make all that stuff imported, which is soaking up all our overseas earnings, and then we have to borrow overseas to pay for the rest. Then citizens in NZ have to borrow to buy it; it is partly used, sold off, given away or thrown out, creating big problems for waste disposal.

      In the meantime the system has ground down the ordinary semi-skilled even skilled people who would have worked at making those things that we are throwing away. They would have cost more, we would have bought less, and worn things and used things for longer and they would still have been good for selling secondhand, and waste piles would be reduced to a half or a third.

      This system keeps us in debt. If we stop buying though, the country will be showing how bare it is, how unhealthy the body, and driven forward with whips.
      Very sad. Don’t we care that we have no cash from our own enterprises, that we have very little left for ourselves from the huge turnover of commerce in this country? Or don’t we need cash, we look to the cargo-cult providers for our needs, simple in our beliefs that The End of the Golden Weather will never come, despite warnings to take care.

      Here is some real NZ sharing needing no cash – a 10 min video of the play The End of the Golden Weather to a crowd of citizens on Takapuna Beach in 2015 by Stphen Lovatt.
      (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HjP6Vlwrk5A

  4. Tony Veitch [not etc.] 4

    Premise: we simply can’t go on rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic!

    Some ideas for radical action. And I mean RADICAL!

    Action on cars:

    • ban the import of all combustion engine vehicles immediately.

    • begin a controlled phase out of all vehicles over 10 years old (my own included) with the government offering reasonable compensation.

    • allow the import of unlimited EVs – with subsidies.

    • 10 x the bus fleets in all our cities and towns (and only buy electric buses) so a means of getting around is not denied to poorer people.

    • make public transport (in the words of John Minto) free and frequent.

    • expand the rail network so the bulk of our long-distance transport is by rail. By bulk, I mean in excess of 80%.

    • rehabilitate some of the discontinued rail lines, and restore others (like the line to Gisborne.)

    In other words, do everything possible to take petrol and diesel vehicles off our roads ASAP.

    Other ideas:

    On Farming:

    • declare dairy farming a sunset industry.

    • ban large scale irrigation, restrict irrigation to vegetable growing.

    • Plant trees! And, incidentally, stop exporting our raw, unprocessed logs!

    • De-industrialise farming. There’s no reason (except greed) for a nuclear family to own more than one farm.

    • Actively encourage the move to a vegetarian diet (and I’m one who likes meat)!

    • Above all else, farming must be sustainable! If it pollutes in any way, it is not sustainable! Therefore, it stops!

    On housing:

    • much as I applaud the coalition government’s efforts to rebuild housing stocks, every new house should be able to be independent of the national grid.

    • in other words, all new houses should have solar panels and be energy neutral – it may cost more in the short term – but . . .

    On fishing:

    • ban all foreign vessels from NZ waters immediately, including joint venture vessels.

    • our fishing stocks are a precious tahonga and need to be preserved.

    On immigration:

    • New Zealand is approaching the upper limit of population – in the very different world we will face with climate change.

    • so, strictly enforce the sale of land only to New Zealanders.

    • cut immigration to the absolute bare minimum.

    • we simply cannot keep expanding our tourist population indefinitely. We will need to put a cap on tourist numbers.

    • restrict aeroplane travel !!

    On Natural monopolies:

    • all natural monopolies and essential services must be returned to government hands for the benefit of all NZers. Such as power and water services.

    • get rid of the neoliberal nonsense about SOEs having to return a dividend to the government. If they produce a social return (ie a good for the community), that should be enough.

    I’m sure other posters will have more ideas (and better ones!)

    Don’t tell me all this will cost a lot of money or that jobs will be lost – that’s just rearranging those damned deck chairs again.

    We’ve got between three to twelve years to turn this around, and yes, New Zealand can be a world leader in the effort to save the planet.

    If climate change is this generations ‘nuclear free’ moment, then let’s do something radical! (Rather like banning nuclear ships from our ports – that, in the context of the 80’s, was radical.)

    Further reading: http://norightturn.blogspot.com/2018/11/climate-change-what-would-real-action.html

    • WeTheBleeple 4.1

      I agree with everything you’ve said.

      We do need to be very careful when reducing animal loads on land that we don’t go too far in the other direction. Animals are an integral part of avoiding desertification via rotational mob grazing to imitate herd migrations. The trampling and redistribution of organic matter via poop puts it close to the soil where it can biodegrade and build up topsoil. Reducing farms to actual carrying capacity will go a long way in reducing pollutants while maintaining core industry with which to grow on.

      The idea NZ is only good for bulk commodities is nonsense. We need to bring back local manufacturing and add value to our products here, not in some foreigners factories.

      We can make the best food in the world and charge the rich like a wounded bull for it while it is typical fare on our own plates. The rest of the world can learn from us, or pay for it.

      Corporate agriculture has to go.

    • patricia bremner 4.2

      Tony, 150 prominent NZers wrote an open letter to Jacinda and the Government in March 2018 asking for an end to oil. The Government responded.
      Your suggestions are thought provoking and radical. I fear a wartime footing is needed to even begin to cause meaningful change.

      Reading about younger NZers who make their living being ‘influencers’ I thought what are they putting forward ‘climate change ideas’.??
      No no, they influence people to follow fashion trends, in clothing and makeup.
      Their lives are online making the kind of money many would find ludicrous.
      To imagine such people worry about the planet… no no, eyeliner glitter etc. It all seems so trite in face of coming tragedy. Luckily there are the ‘Jacindas’ who know climate change is the issue.

      And I’m an optimist, but even I am shaken to my core. Every personal action is wracked with guilt. I’m alive because of science, but I now secrete endless chemicals, need things which are bad for the planet, and yet I mainly live inside others’ footprints house sitting and offering my small home to other sitters, our way of travelling to visit new areas of NZ and Queensland, keeping up with our widely scattered family. Scattered I might add by neo-liberal economics.

      We own a small car which will take a wheelchair, and I am not sure we could cope with public transport only now days. We have looked at our possessions and gifted at least half of them to charity or younger family members. We made the decision to go small 20 years ago, when others were moving into 4 bedroomed homes. We were considered ‘unusual’, and our 5 years off the grid in a motorhome ‘quaint’.

      Even a modest life has a huge impact on the planet. but using glass for food storage, a compost heap to replenish soils, and baking soda and vinegar as cleaners has not countered the hairspray.

      But, we all must do our bit to the best of our ability and keep hoping.
      The planet is worth it.

      • greywarshark 4.2.1

        Patricia B
        I and many are feeling as you are and trying to make changes, and it helps to hear about each other’s path. Kia kaha and Me nga hihahiha pai.

        • patricia bremner 4.2.1.1

          Thanks Greywarshark. One of the things I forgot to mention is our “Potluck dinners” held on a Friday 3 or 4 times over 6 months, collecting one another to limit vehicles.
          Eight friends bring something for the table, and what they would like to drink.
          It used to be beer and wine, but often is tea coffee or lemon in iced water these days.
          We all really look forward to the first of these when we return from Aussie.
          It is an inexpensive way to have a meal in good company.
          (I have been told these get togethers helped greatly those who had lost a partner)

          A rotation of dishes keeps an element of surprise, such as, any kind of chicken dish. any vegetarian option, a curry or chilli option, a salad or vegetable medley. (Some bring produce from their gardens).
          Ours would be the smallest home, but we get ten round the table and talk!!
          That is all we do, share food company and chat. No organised activities. five hours fly. The ages are early 60s to one 82 year old, all going on 55 of course.
          The food basket concept.

    • DJ Ward 4.3

      I’ll take a wild guess here.

      You don’t have a clue how to pay for any of those things to happen.
      Other people’s money?

      Diary is already legislated as a sunset industry. So a mute comment.

      Your fishing comment.

      NZ’s industry certainly has flaws like methods and by-catch. It has also made some progress in those areas. NZ’s system is based on a sustainable model. If stocks drop then Quota will drop as well. Like I said it has flaws which needs addressing but it’s still world best practice.

      • Gabby 4.3.1

        Are you a yanker dud4? Is yankistan where you acquired your misuse of mute for an incorrect use of moot? Do you just spend too much time ‘reading’ the incel spoutings of 2nd amendors?

        • DJ Ward 4.3.1.1

          Thanks for your humble clarification for my missuse of words.

          How do you pay for those things?

          • patricia bremner 4.3.1.1.1

            It is saving the planet not the dollar, and in answer to your question.

            The costs would be met just as they would in a war.
            War Bonds, or Climate Change Credit.

        • veutoviper 4.3.1.2

          It’s the continual reference to the Diary industry that interests me. What is this Diary that he speaks of? Pepys perhaps?

      • Tony Veitch [not etc.] 4.3.2

        Those damn deck chairs again! They won’t stay where I want them to!

    • Bearded Git 4.4

      ….and GO SOLAR!

    • bwaghorn 4.5

      “Above all else, farming must be sustainable! If it pollutes in any way, it is not sustainable! Therefore, it stops!”
      I hope your living in a forest as a hunter gatherer because if you ain’t your polutting to .

      “De-industrialise farming. There’s no reason (except greed) for a nuclear family to own more than one farm”
      From what I’m seeing the corporate farmers like pamu and whanganui atihau are leading the way on sustainable diverse farming practices. .

    • Wayne 4.6

      And the result will be migrating to the opposition benches for at least the next 9 years

      • Tony Veitch [not etc.] 4.6.1

        It hasn’t sunk in, has it Wayne? The ‘perpetual present’ that will go on forever?

        If we don’t do something radical, we’re doomed, DOOMED I say!

        And 9 more years of National will ensure there is no hope.

        So, a rock and a hard place!

    • gsays 4.7

      I vote for that.

    • halfcrown 4.8

      A good list Tony, Don’t agree with everything but some things must change

      “Plant trees! And, incidentally, stop exporting our raw, unprocessed logs! ”

      They are doing the reverse, visited Whakamaru Dam the other month, first time for quite a few years. All the tree plantations from this dam to nearly Tokoroa have been ripped out and turned into one giant dairy farm.
      No thought, well there is and that’s bloody greed, you would think with all the warnings about global warming to rip out tree platations and replace with more pulluting cows would be the last thing they would do.

    • AB 4.9

      We on the left conflate two things:
      – the need to do something about climate change
      – our desire for lives that are have meaning, are authentic, rather than the alienating experience of being a mere homo economicus in a capitalist shit show

      So we see the latter as the solution to the former. But the rich and powerful have absolutely no intention of letting us do that ever, under any circumstances, no matter how dire.

      • patricia bremner 4.9.1

        It is worse than that AB, the wealthy always thought the poor were the problem, they are conflicted to find they are the real problem, so they will make superficial changes that appease their conscience but don’t actually help.

  5. Dennis Frank 5

    On the mass psychology of Trumpism, the Archdruid provides this succinct summary in a response to one of his commenters: “Julius Caesar was able to seize power in Rome because he had the support of the Roman masses; Brutus and the other conspirators who killed him were squarely on the side of the Senatorial elite. That’s why Spengler referred to the rise of autocrats backed by the masses as Caesarism; when the masses can’t get their needs met by the ordinary mechanisms of government, they’ll back those who promise to overturn the ordinary mechanisms of government — and if Caesar knows how to play to his base, they’ll get at least some of what they want.”

    It explains why the only anti-establishment candidate (in the Republican field of 18 contenders for the 2016 US presidential election) beat all the establishment candidates including the Democrat. His historical precedent seems a perfect fit. Democracy can produce a strong rebel leader when establishment oppression combines with voter alienation. Media analysts failed to correlate this. Can’t learn from history unless you actually read it.

    • Gabby 5.1

      Voters knew him from off the telly franky.

      • Dennis Frank 5.1.1

        Indeed, that was a big advantage for him. However the tv persona he displayed could have alienated as many as were impressed, huh? Had that effect on me (not that I ever watched the actual programme, just saw a few promos). I didn’t rate him as a contender until I noticed his rebel stance.

    • McFlock 5.2

      I think that explains elements of the actual mano y mano campaign, but I think the main reason he caned the primaries is that when there were 18, conventional debaters never got a decent go to present their ideas distinctly from everyone else. The braggart yelling about his dick size grabbed all the attention.

      It’s one of the mysteries of alt-history as to whether a field of three or four would have given better opportunities to make him look dumb before he connected with his base.

      • Dennis Frank 5.2.1

        Yeah but that was just your impression. If he hadn’t actually said the stuff that his voters weren’t hearing from the other candidates, any resonance would not have achieved critical mass. The USA is no longer like other western countries in respect of public opinion: hollowing-out the middle class didn’t happen elsewhere, and plenty of working class folk had sub-prime mortgages too. Walking away from your home when it’s `underwater’ due to negative equity is a huge psychological alienator.

        • McFlock 5.2.1.1

          He didn’t start off the primaries as the demagogue he ended up becoming.

          The “resonance” only happened because the louder and more disgraceful he got, the more free advertising he got in the news. Throwing in racism, fearmongering, anger at the rich (lols) and conservative bigotry came later.

    • DJ Ward 5.3

      Firstly there was no stand out candidate within those 18. It’s a bit like the current Democratic hopefuls. Trump is a bit of an enigma in that he was able to rise to fame and respect by many (nobody here obviously) outside of politics.

      One of the main reasons he won was he campaigned to the democratic base, the working man. The Democrates shifted to gender and identity politics, character assasination etc and ignored the working man. This was exposed in voting demographics especially on gender and education. He got the poor vote in many states.

      The same issue occurs in NZ as Labour performs terribly with the male vote. The in house Labour diagnoses of the prevous failed election with Key didn’t even examine why males statisticaly don’t vote for the left.

      • OnceWasTim 5.3.1

        and s-s-s-s-Secondly?
        and th-th-th-Thirdly? (even)
        As you know d-d-DJ. I’m in utter awe, and anxious to learn the lines necessary ….. PLUS what I should be ‘passionate’ about?, and how I can become just like you?. I’ve been following your words of wisdom intently, and I really, really am confused.
        One minute there’s an inkling of critical thought, the next something a Penguin could impart. Should I just end it all now?

        • DJ Ward 5.3.1.1

          Yes I noticed that as well but after I pressed the submit comment button.
          I apologise.

          Don’t end it, I’m sure something will occur that requires popcorn.

      • Dennis Frank 5.3.2

        He did win plenty of those who had voted Democrat before apparently, presumably due to their alienation from the system. I agree that working males was a strength democraphic for him due to HC ignoring them. You’re right about that in respect of the left here – seems more so with the Greens, too. That’s the downside of excessive focus on identity politics: the historical trend of including suppressed minorities has played out into pc-conformism on the left. Genuine inclusion requires catering for those in non-pc categories too.

  6. Adrian 6

    Please correct me if I’m wrong but doesn’t 2 billion divided by 1000 equal 2 million?
    If I’m correct and I’m pretty sure I am then according to the Herald Simon Bridges is costing Kiwibuild houses at 2 MILLION dollars each.
    No wonder people can’t afford to buy hoses.

    • BM 6.1

      When there are only 338 qualified buyers it’s all a bit pointless.

      Kiwi buy is a joke, Labour needs to scrap it and concentrate on state housing, otherwise one-term government.

      • Nick 6.1.1

        Kiwi Build concept is correct BM. The delivery is the ongoing challenge.

      • patricia bremner 6.1.2

        BM You do know the Government is also building State Houses as well as Kiwibuild houses?
        you wouldn’t be trying to mislead would you?

        • BM 6.1.2.1

          Only a fraction compared to Kiwi Buy.

          • solkta 6.1.2.1.1

            What is historic ratio of home owners to state house tenants? Why should the government only help poor people?

            • SaveNZ 6.1.2.1.1.1

              The trickle down theory from Rogernomics is,

              Remove all regulation and let businesses do what it wants because business is better than a person and should be worshipped as such.

              When the shit hits the fan when everything goes wrong, use peoples taxes to prop up business and clean up after them with welfare and environmental pollution and health outcomes.

              So you need a decent middle class to get the money off.

              Then give a small potion of that to the poor.

              If they start giving it to the middle class too, then there is a problem Housten, who will pay for that???

              Well selling off assets and borrowing, is a short term way to keep the Ponzi afloat with cash.

              • solkta

                Yes we know how we got here but now the government is making efforts to get us back to where we were. Kiwibuild has not a great cost.

          • patricia bremner 6.1.2.1.2

            No BM, 6400 State Houses promised.

            • BM 6.1.2.1.2.1

              Only 6% of the Kiwi buy total.

            • SaveNZ 6.1.2.1.2.2

              There is approx 70,000 new residents per year plus hundreds of thousands of work permits being given out, so 6400 state houses which are not even new state houses but mostly replacement state houses means the numbers don’t stack up.

              I’d prefer tying to stop people needing the state house in the first place by getting our standard of living and wages up overall.

          • Ed1 6.1.2.1.3

            BM I’m not sure what you are talking about when you refer to Kiwibuy. It is possible you are referring to this:
            https://www.facebook.com/202557943109716/posts/2206799689352188/

            (The Special Housing Areas were legislated for by National – they identified crown land that could be released, the Auckland Council and developers (in this case a consortium of builders and community organisations) built the houses. A recent article showed that the Special housing areas actually caused house prices to increase – I suspect because of land-banking) but this was acknowledged to be the only success in National’s time in office; meantime they sold off a lot of state houses (far more than they built) and denied there was a housing crisis).
            You may however be referring to KiwiBuild, which has I think quite a few houses at the stage of getting infrastructure built, or through that to design and consent. I think those developments need to contain some houses for rental.
            If you go back to the first state houses, there was always a mix of rental houses, rent to buy, and houses for sale; and rents were at times linked to income. There is nothing wrong with the government building houses to sell – I know a young man (a qualified tradesman) who believes he will never be able to afford a house and is investigating a Tiny House – how many others have just given up as we are no longer an equal opportunity country . . .

            • Gabby 6.1.2.1.3.1

              I take it the young man is incapable of imagining life outside Auckland, or without two bathrooms per anus?

        • greywarshark 6.1.2.2

          Hi Patricia
          Have you been watching what the gummint is doing re State houses? If so what is the promise and procedure so far? I have ben wondering.

          • patricia bremner 6.1.2.2.1

            Greywarshark,I went to Housing NZ website. It is updated every so often, with stats photos and plans. Several regions mentioned plus Auckland. Hope that helps.

            • greywarshark 6.1.2.2.1.1

              Well I am all right in my old house that needs work, but i can get finance to help with that just need to get onto it (and blog less). Good to hear of movement, will look up Housing NZ website.

              But it makes me very sad to see the amenities that we in NZ had managed to achieve be withdrawn by a sour, censorious, pinch-faced bunch. And NZ was never as good at helping people as it considered. So before i die I am putting my bit in to see if a sane system can be ushered in to cope with the future before we descend to the 18oos which we all wanted to escape from to a better, kinder system.

      • SaveNZ 6.1.3

        If you have a look at the Brian Eastern article link on 8, he says that “The research evidence points to the most common household in poverty is a Pakeha couple with children living in their own house (with a mortgage) and being dependent upon wages “.

        So people just can’t afford to buy a house anymore on wages. So that is way there is only a small amount of applicants for Kiwi buy and they are professionals like doctors.

        Giving someone a house to live in, is not a solution. The government need to find a way to create more high paid secure jobs so that people can afford to buy a normal house and live comfortably on wages.

        The wage (and job security) is the problem vs living expenses!

        The government has inherited an immigration problem that is completely dysfunctional, from having so many fake jobs and wages, to allowing people to reside here who meet online and marry within days or are in prison, and misspending our taxes on that, with our own kids being short changed, again and again.

        The other day I posted a link, where somehow a women who had worked in the UK for 30 years got NZ super, $170k from pensions in the UK and also had the investments. Is our government crazy to allow a NZ pension to people under those circumstances as well as the generous benefit to our elederly who just have to put things in a trust to qualify for free rest home care and more???

        People work in NZ their whole lives and are at risk of not even getting a pension or the age being raised by stupidity like that!

        The immigration money/residency Ponzi needs to be stopped and people’s taxes put into our own human capital of Kids born here to NZ parents and creating significantly higher paid jobs through innovation and manufacturing and IP, not Burger King and low level import/export jobs.

        • SaveNZ 6.1.3.1

          Is it really that hard to reform super?

          Are you born in NZ? Yes
          Have your lived in NZ more than 30 years from the age of 20 – 65 years? yes.

          You get super.

          Are you born in NZ? No
          Have you lived in NZ more than 30 years from the age of 20 – 65 years and have positive taxable income for 30+ years? Yes

          you get super.

          It allows people 15 years to be outside of NZ, which should be the maximum amount they are absent to qualify for super.

          Everyone else has to use Kiwisaver for retirement or their pension/savings from their other country and don’t qualify for super!!

          Taxes are an insurance scheme of sorts. NZ seem to be confused because people paying taxes are not getting what they were promised while those who did not pay in, or paid very little in, are able to be paid out.

          It is not fair to those paying in or who are born here and lived here and for what every reason (disability) ect need support are not getting what they are entitled to because the current situation can’t continue with so many people being added each year through migration, who never paid in or never lived in NZ most of their adult life, being paid out!

          And to make matter worse, a lot of them are asset rich and get their investments or another pension to boot while Kiwi’s are going backwards into poverty.

        • Gabby 6.1.3.2

          More high paid jobs will just lead to more expensive houses savey.

          • SaveNZ 6.1.3.2.1

            At the cost of construction in NZ, Gabby I think you will find a well paid job just gets you Kiwibuild…

            Don’t forget we have to compete against the world’s investors for new builds, land, farms, business assets and OZ, Singapore and new residents and citizens who might only be here for 11 days to buy any housing or asset in NZ just like a Kiwi.

        • greywarshark 6.1.3.3

          Elderly with moneys in trust? Getting help with residential care. Is that possible now? I thought there were changes preventing that.

          Apart from that bring on suitable methods for handling euthanasia for all who want it, (with rxceptions against immediate action, perhaps registration and then a waiting time for some). That would be a help to all. Very small houses for certain people wishing to move!

        • greywarshark 6.1.3.4

          It’s Brian Easton savenz. Just think of tons of useful critique for citizens and you’ll be right.

      • KJT 6.1.4

        Agree we need lots more State housing. Where were you when National was selling them off?

    • patricia bremner 6.2

      Adrian someone is going to realise Simon is simple sometime soon surely?
      Perhaps even they can not agree the replacement.

    • Jimmy 6.3

      It does make me wonder if any of our politicians ever took maths at school

  7. Matiri 7

    Dad’s Army was very funny, Rees-Mogg and his ERG pretty tragic, poor Britain reduced to this if ERG make Theresa May look good! https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/nov/21/brexit-dads-army-jacob-rees-mogg

  8. SaveNZ 8

    Invisible Children
    by Brian Easton

    “The research evidence points to the most common household in poverty is a Pakeha couple with children living in their own house (with a mortgage) and being dependent upon wages That is because the group is the largest, so even if its poverty rate is lower than average, there are more poor.”

    https://www.pundit.co.nz/content/invisible-children

    (Who knew that?)

    • DJ Ward 8.1

      Identity politics requires propaganda to work. Looking at the opposite is deemed offensive.

      • SaveNZ 8.1.1

        It explains a bit more the election result, in particular the Greens poor results because their view seems to be that any home owner is rich, and also why capital gains for Labour helps them lose every election.

        Be interesting to see where that statistic came from and how they measured poverty.

        Does not surprise me, because once you earn a certain amount you then lose any entitlement to welfare like community services card, WFF but you still have significant amounts spent on mortgages and what children needs and can easily see that with stagnant wages, insecure jobs, and rocketing costs of living like petrol, power, water, doctors visits, rates and every day a new tax being touted against the middle class workers you can easily run out of money and be a lot more in debt.

        No wonder they are seeing so many at the food bank who they would not expect to see there.

  9. Morrissey 9

    If you trust the Grauniad you’re a fool.

    The “liberal” paper that sent the hapless Emma Brockes in as an attack dog* against Noam Chomsky, and was one of the main conduits of Yenta Hodge’s insane attempt to smear Jeremy Corbyn, is employing as its Nicaraguan correspondent something called Carl David Goette-Luciak, who can only be described as a tool of the U.S.-backed right wing terrorists there.

    https://azvsas.blogspot.com/2018/11/the-curious-case-of-carl-david-goette.html

    * In reality, she was more of an attack dead sheep.

  10. Tough subject. Can be very frightening for parents and caregivers.

    Research has found self-harm among young people is common: almost a third of New Zealand teenagers report hurting themselves intentionally at least once…
    … Rather than wanting to die, those who self-harm often use it as kind of a coping strategy, a way of dealing with overwhelming emotions. But it is a worrying sign of distress, that can spiral into suicidal ideation and death.

    https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/108558122/why-are-our-girls-hurting-themselves

    • veutoviper 10.1

      I haven’t yet read that article, marty mars, but did hear this interview a couple of days ago on RNZ Nine to Noon.

      https://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/ninetonoon/audio/2018671982/understanding-youth-suicide-and-self-harm

      It is an interview with Professor Marc Wilson from Victoria University, research lead in a Marsden Funded research project which aims to investigate this area and find out whether self harming thoughts and behaviour can predict suicidal thoughts and behaviour, and vice versa.

      Well worth a listen if you did not hear it.

      EDIT – Excellent Stuff article also. Related to the same study but approached differently. Great that it is a local NZ study rather than an overseas one.

      About to read the other links in the article. Thanks mm

    • DJ Ward 10.2

      Why are our boys killing themselves? Big difference eh.

      With girls there is some very strong links to the very broad bipolar spectrum. Borderline personality disorder common with self harming is more common in females. Since the mood disorder spectrum is about 8% of the population you inherently get large numbers with depression related self harm. Since we live in a more personally isolated but emotionally connected environment with the Internet we should inherently have more resulting self harm by girls.

      • SaveNZ 10.2.1

        I can totally see why the suicide rates are increasing for young people. Their future seems to be a minimum waged job that they can’t live on or huge student debt for an insecure job that they might not get when they graduate and less and less chance of buying a home without family help or even renting one if they screw up their rental history or get a criminal conviction.

        Again I think they need to extend the youth court to 24 years old. They are destroying too many young people’s lives.

        They really need to get serious about Meth and other drugs that are destroying people.

        I would love this government to give the kids of this land the same care, attention and rights they seem to give business and lobbyists to them not just coldly use them to justify decisions that actually don’t help them and in many ways make things worse.

      • gsays 10.2.2

        Anecdotally speaking in regards to borderline personality disorder in females, they grow out of it. At about the time of menopause the symptoms seem to diminish.
        Perhaps HRT is an answer.
        The challenge then is to undo the social damage done during the life time.

  11. cleangreen 11

    Labour has not honoured their promises one year on so far.

    1/ Labour promised; – “free to air public service commercial free investigative journalism TV channel” This has not happend as it was critical to our vioce being heard.

    Sadly we are now seeing a reduction in our current media coverage at this time.

    2/ Labour promised; – a Government that promised to be a fairer, warmer, caring, inclusive, transparent, open, accessible, responsive Ministers that will hear and represent each constituent, and that each one be given a voice to be heard. We are not even close to seeing this happen yet one year on.

    3/ Labour promised transformational government that will change transport choices and restore provincial rail use in every province, and this has not occurred as truck freight use is still increasing NZ wide to over 5% just in the last year alone. East Coast Gisborne rail service has not reopened as labour promised it would reopen the service, after eight years and still lays dormant, and Northland rail is also not reopened either.

    4/ Labour promised to stop selloff of public assets; – but we now see regional Councils promoting selling some regional Ports and all water well supplies and airport facilities.

    5/ Labour promised to reduce or get rid of private contractors in state owned SOE’s and regional Government services, but now we see more “commisioners” used as ‘advisors’ to regional authorities and a increased use of private roading contractors instead of Government SOE services.
    Australian companies like Downers are being used to ‘patch our roads with temporary repairs and roads are failing with potholes everywhere now. Rural roads are also falling into disrepair.

    6/ Labour promised climate change policies to force us to a lower carbon emissions target but instead NZ’s freight truck fleet use is increasing annually now, while also air travel is also increasing, so our carbon emissions are now increasing not decreasing.

    7/ Labour promised; – better health services, but more waiting time and reduction in hip and joint operations are not occurring today, as operations are being ‘deferred’ because of age.
    Health cost bills to patients are not being lowered and prescription costs are still increasing.

    8/ Labour promised; – Lower housing costs and still today the median house price is rising and costs of ‘compliance’ is increasing due to labour’s increased rules of compliance. More rules means increase housing cost.

    9/ Labour promised that ‘each person would have a voice and would be heard by Government’.

    This after one year in Government is not occurring; – our case; –

    We on the East Coast/HB \ have been writting to ministers for one year and asking for several labour MP’s to come to either Napier or Gisborne or both to meet with those communities and hear their issues around a lack of transport services and choices, and for rail freight and passenger services access, and not one Labour MP has yet responded to our repeated requests to meet with any of those MP’s that are meant to be there to represent their concerns.

    10/ Labour promised; – Homelessness would be eliminated along with the plight of the poor.

    One year later we see that homelessness to still at critically high levels and many are still living in cars, while the ‘begging’ are now being banned from our cities, by local councils while Government watches.
    The score card for Labour’s first year is appalling.

    Remember what our PM Jacinda Ardern said on her first speak on ‘Whitangi day’ was; – “keep a close watch on our promises made and remind us if we fail to honour our promises”

    • Puckish Rogue 11.1

      Careful now, you’ll find yourself accused of heresy or worse…a closet National voter! 😉

    • Sacha 11.2

      Not fixing the world in one year – appalling!

      • Kay 11.2.1

        I have to agree with Sacha unfortunately, despite fully relating to your points cleargreen. There’s no way on earth everything ‘promised’ (and politician promises are just that) are going to fully happen within a year, given the giant mess there is to clean up. It is however encouraging to see at least initial steps being taking towards some of these promises which is way more than we ever got out of the last lot. I do personally think they need to get their A into G over State housing and getting serious about faster ways of building in the form of prefab housing.

        I do however agree there are things that could’ve been well sorted by now. I particularly like the idea of ” responsive Ministers that will hear and represent each constituent.” The Minister of Social development has clearly yet to get that memo.

        For the record- I am no fan on Labour at all and they have a long way to go to earn my vote, and in most respects my life is not better under this coalition at the moment, but I tell you what- it’s not getting worse which would’ve happened if the other crowd had got back.

    • greywarshark 11.3

      cleangreen
      I sent an email to Small Business and Associate Ministers about something that I think needs attending to. Got automatic replies. I feel from their wording that I won’t get more. i understand they are busy and that Opps hindering with 42,000 questions!

      But how can a citizen get through to Ministers? And I understand they have had much power to take action diluted, perhaps to homeopathic levels.

      • patricia bremner 11.3.1

        Opposition blocking the channels with 42000 written questions stops attention to the genuine ones.

        That is a ploy being played out.

    • DJ Ward 11.4

      She should give Trump a call. He hasn’t done everything but one thing he has done better than virtually all politicians is fulfill many of his election promises. Maybe he can give her some tips.

  12. Observer Tokoroa 12

    Trotter doesn’t nail it

    I suggest you read PATRICIA Bremmer above.
    Also good TONY Veitch above.

    To say that Jacinda has done nothing about Climate Change is just showing the Greens and Trotter as nutters of the past.

    She has set in motion months ago the demise of Fossil Fuels in New Zealand .
    She has begun with NZ First a huge Oxygen-isation of our nation – by planting trees to counter C02 saturation.

    She has demanded farmers will cease poisoning our rivers and shores
    She has all but eradicated the lousy attitude of farmers who import diseased cattle.

    Jacinda has stood firm against the bullying of that climate ignorant bunch called the mad Naki. Gas has its destructiveness too. (for petes sake don’t sniff or suck it in or let it out).

    Trotter is living in the past. As are the Greens. As is Naki and the like.

    I am quite sure that the Greens have not ever publicised that Diesel is a most highly cacinogenic product of Oil– as is Petroleum. They never even publish the deaths it causes.

    The Greens should be getting their asses off their comfortable chairs and walking through New Zealand and informing the School Teachers, the Doctors, the Citizens.
    Using simple language. Simple illustrations. And Unity.

    • I agree with a lot of that. The greens are going out the back door unless they get off their comfortable arses and start making waves imo

      • solkta 12.1.1

        Have you thought of becoming a member marty? Your views seem to be a very close fit with Green policy.

    • solkta 12.2

      Jacinda has not done those things the government has and a huge part of them coming about are the demands that the Greens make within that government.

      • cleangreen 12.2.1

        solkta

        Yes Greens and NZ First have pushed Labour to the left of national on climate change but not far enough sadly.

        We have found that when Jacinda talks about “climate change being her generation’s nuclear moment” she does very little about transport emissions of trucks as trucks are the most prolific emitters of diesel particulates other than any other form of transport so she is sitting on not reducing truck freight and should be using publicly owned rail to move back to at least half of the freight carried now on trucks to rail. Trucks also use expensive oil for 32 tyres on each double tandem truck; – while rail uses only steel wheels.

        Trucks carry 90% of our total freight, rail 6% and shipping 4%!!

        So Jacinda “lets do this”.

        Move half the freight back to rail as Labour set this up when the rail was bought back when Helen Clark purchased the rail asset and called it Kiwirail in 2008.

        • greywarshark 12.2.1.1

          Big truckers have more power perhaps than little politicians. But softly, softly catchee monkey might get us somewhere good.

          • cleangreen 12.2.1.1.1

            Yes Greywarshark,

            People like Don Braid as CEO of Mainfreight is the best example around NZ for supporting rail as a mover of their clients freight.

            The latest profit Mainfreight posted this year was due to his expansion in using rail.

            So there is a large advantage from trucking companies using rail and this brings hope when these large trucking interests get back onto trail as their prime mover, as they are all just freight forwarders no matter what method they use.

    • cleangreen 12.3

      True that is Observer Tokoroa 100%;

      Now try this here ; – as i don’t vote for or support the toxic National Party, – but Simon Bridges is now showing he is panicking when he asks labour voters for their views on older folks like me!!!!! What do you say?

      Why the hell are National asking labour supporters what we want????
      This wound up in my inbox today; – from Simon bridges no less.

      “Yesterday I launched our next ‘Have your say’ campaign, focusing on the issues that matter to our older New Zealanders.

      We know how important it is for our seniors to have access to cost effective and timely healthcare, quality and accessible housing, and financial support they can rely on into the future.

      I want to see all Kiwis living the best life they can lead, and that starts with developing policies that deliver real results on the issues our communities are facing.

      In the past year job creation has dropped by 60 per cent, petrol prices and rents have gone up, strikes are happening up and down the country, and the economy is suffering from a lack of confidence & vision.
      Kiwis are being hurt by this Government’s higher cost of living, while Labour and NZ First sit on a surplus of $5.5 billion of your hard-earned cash. You deserve better, and National will do better.

      Our seniors are an important and growing part of our community, and I want to hear about what matters to them.

      If you or anyone in your family is interested in getting involved or contributing your ideas, you can fill out our survey here.
      We’re doing the work now, so were ready in 2020 to deliver a policy platform, and alternative government, that Kiwis can really get behind.

      Kind regards

      Simon Bridges

      P.S. Over the next two years we are going to throw everything we have at this Government, and we need your help. Chip in to our fighting fund today to help us hold the government to account and prepare for the 2020 election.

      Click here to donate to our fighting fund”

      • DJ Ward 12.3.1

        If National can hold its support % as well as stealing older voters from NZ first causing them to drop just below the threshold then they likely win the election. People generally become more conservative as they age.

        To be honest Simon is not an inspiring leader so I think there % will drop from the last election. Conversely Jacinda is no Helen Clarke.

  13. Dennis Frank 13

    “There has been a remarkable global decline in the number of children” according to a BBC report. “The study, published in the Lancet, followed trends in every country from 1950 to 2017. In 1950, women were having an average of 4.7 children in their lifetime. The fertility rate all but halved to 2.4 children per woman by last year.” https://www.bbc.com/news/health-46118103

    Update on the global increase: “Population in the world is currently (2018) growing at a rate of around 1.09% per year (down from 1.12% in 2017 and 1.14% in 2016). The current average population increase is estimated at 83 million people per year.”

    “Annual growth rate reached its peak in the late 1960s, when it was at around 2%. The rate of increase has nearly halved since then, and will continue to decline in the coming years. It is estimated to reach 1% by 2023, less than 0.5% by 2052, and 0.25% in 2076 (a yearly addition of 27 million people to a population of 10.7 billion). In 2100, it should be only 0.09%”. http://www.worldometers.info/world-population/#growthrate

    • SaveNZ 13.1

      I think it is a good thing that our population is declining. in general good things happen with smaller families such as increased education and higher levels of mortality. We don’t need to keep this idea that human population growth is good. We can all have a better standard of living and save the planet by collectively having less children and treating them better. In addition people are living longer so there are more people in the world.

      Also Africa is bucking the trend and growing rapidly.

      “In the past year the population of the African continent grew by 30 million. By the year 2050, annual increases will exceed 42 million people per year and total population will have doubled to 2.4 billion, according to the UN. This comes to 3.5 million more people per month, or 80 additional people per minute. At that point, African population growth would be able to re-fill an empty London five times a year.

      From any big-picture perspective, these population dynamics will have an influence on global demography in the 21st century. Of the 2.37 billion increase in population expected worldwide by 2050, Africa alone will contribute 54%. By 2100, Africa will contribute 82% of total growth: 3.2 billion of the overall increase of 3.8 billion people. Under some projections, Nigeria will add more people to the world’s population by 2050 than any other country.”

      https://www.theguardian.com/global-development-professionals-network/2016/jan/11/population-growth-in-africa-grasping-the-scale-of-the-challenge

      • Andre 13.1.1

        All that population growth in Africa is going to run smack into the fact that climate change is going to hit hardest there with wet bulb temperatures going too high for humans to survive without airconditioning.

        No idea how that’s going to play out, but I suspect it’s going to involve a massive increase in migration pressures coupled with a premature death rate among those left behind that’s absolutely hideous to contemplate.

      • WeTheBleeple 13.1.2

        With the figures of the average birthrate of women (2.4 in 2017) and the ratio of women in specific countries/regions populations we might get a clearer picture of what’s occurring.

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_sex_ratio

        We are producing more females than males now. Higher ratios of human females was noted by Bill Mollison to be associated with desert. Higher production areas historically had more males but it’s all changing around the equator now. Check the three global maps in the link.

    • Andre 13.2

      Games with numbers. Possible motivated by a desire to downplay how big a problem population growth still is.

      In absolute terms, population growth now is around 83 million per year, which is only a little bit less than the peak of around 90 million per year (CBF looking up the exact number) sometime in the nineties. Coupled with the overall increase in living standards globally since the nineties, I’ll take a guess that human pressures on the world’s resources are increasing as fast as ever, if not faster.

      • SaveNZ 13.2.1

        +1 Andre – they are fooling themselves, with numbers. There are too many people in the world with the amount of consumption people now expect and the age people live to.

    • DJ Ward 13.3

      There’s one profound flaw in that prediction.

      The legalising and supply of the male pill.

      As unplanned pregnancy for males is 40% of live births in NZ and I assume similar in other nations, then any drop in that figure could have a significant effect. The drop in per women birth is a resultant of effective contraceptive choice as well as far better abortion services.
      For example our birth rate is about 1.8. If as a result of males having an effective contraceptive choice, which they presently don’t have, and that 40% figure halves then the birth rate falls to 1.44 births per woman.

      There will be offsetting as males that avoided the unwanted pregnancy may still agree to consential pregnancy, having a child later in life. Females that can’t get pregnant due to male contraception will resort to other options.

      But ultimately the male pill, a far healthier option than female versions, will have a profound effect on population growth. It will also be nearly as socially transformative as the introduction of female contraception.

      • McFlock 13.3.1

        Please link to which “male pill” you think is currently illegal.

      • SaveNZ 13.3.2

        I can’t see the African nationals being keen to take any male pill or their governments funding it, even getting vaccines through is tough.

  14. Jimmy 14

    Why is this Gavin Hawthorn bloke not in jail? Banning him from having a licence is not going to stop him drink driving and it never has in the past. What is wrong with this judge?

    • bwaghorn 14.1

      They either have to lock him up for ever or try something else . Personally I’d fig him with a GPS tracker and any time it moves faster than 20kph an alarm goes off at the nearest police station. Either that or it shocks the bugger .

      • Jimmy 14.1.1

        by the time the GPS alarm goes off, he could have killed his 5th person. The electric shock sounds like a good idea if its around 10,000 volts

    • Gabby 14.2

      The timid little judge is afraid a worster worst case that really merits imprisonment might come along. What would his fellow demigods say? They might tsk tsk or sigh. Unendurable.

  15. joe90 15

    Shame.

    Over 24 hours, The Spinoff received more than 100 stories from New Zealand women who have been made to feel unsafe in a taxi or Uber. This article contains description of sexual assault and harassment, please take care.

    Yesterday, a feeble troll of a petition on Change.org announced that the new women-only ride-sharing app DriveHer was “sexist” and “denying men jobs.” The app, launching in Auckland on December 3, has an all-women roster of drivers. There are also strict rules around male passengers – no travelling without a woman, and no sitting in the front seat. “DriveHer is about giving women options,” founder Joel Rushton told The NZ Herald. “It’s about giving women an option to feel safe, because what we know is that the taxi and ridesharing industry isn’t safe.”

    https://thespinoff.co.nz/society/20-11-2018/whats-the-point-in-a-womens-ride-sharing-app-any-woman-can-tell-you/

  16. joe90 16

    Harry’s crook. He’s in hospital in Canada, and son John is running his account.

    Best wishes to Harry and family.

    Just an update: Harry is hypotensive and on fluids and drifts in and out of consciousness, but is breathing well with oxygen Waiting for the cardiologist to report.— Harry Leslie Smith (@Harryslaststand) November 20, 2018

    https://twitter.com/Harryslaststand

  17. Robert Guyton 17

    test

  18. Robert Guyton 18

    test2
    http://develop.curlyflat.net.au/images/galleries/cartoons/how-to-get-there.jpg
    How do I cause an image to show up here? The url above will show as an image on other blogs. Anyone know?

    • Sacha 18.1

      Other blogs are set up to make that happen. This one is not.

    • Andre 18.2

      You beg, plead and grovel to lprent. Who is the only person with the administrative permissions needed to make the images appear directly in the comments.

      And don’t expect any of your best grovelling to meet with any actual success.

      I suppose if you really wanted to make the image appear, you could try turning it into a youtube video and link to that. That’s a workaround I just brainfarted out, I’ve no idea whether it would actually work.

    • veutoviper 18.3

      Sorry, cannot help with the technicalities but a great cartoon – so true.

      My previous comment was meant in good faith and support, in view of a certain post on another blog today.

      EDIT – I now see what you are suggesting at 20 below, Sounds a great idea IMHO. I felt very positive after reading your and WTB exchanges last night.

      • Robert Guyton 18.3.1

        Oh, that! Thanks, veutoviper 🙂
        What a hoot all that was! Timely though, I needed a prod to divest my shares in Beige & Beige.
        EDIT – oh, thanks, veutoviper. If it does fly, please join the discussions. Yours is a delightful voice.

    • ianmac 18.4

      Are we there yet Robert?

  19. Robert Guyton 20

    How to get there

    Hi te reo putake
    Thanks for responding to our discussion (of last night).
    I get the demand-on-authors thing and wonder if the idea that follows might alleviate that pressure. It seems (to me) that we don’t need an authored intro or topic for what we propose; we’re just looking for one step up from Open Mike, which invites comment on everything under the sun, to a thread where “the way forward” can be discussed, within parameters such as doable suggestions, successful examples, contributions from readers who support the concept (of the thread), new “takes” on the future etc. There’s no need to set a topic or change the look of the thread each time it goes up; we’ll know where we can go to talk in this way about these things. I have a suggestion: put up, at your or other authors discretion, a “standard” post, titled “How to get there” – it’s also the title of a wonderful Michael Leunig poem/cartoon, and illustrate the post with that very image to make it immediately recognisable and set the tone for discussions that might/will follow. Here’s the link to Leunig’s poem. I’m certain he won’t mind us using it; I’ve met him and he’s delightful 🙂

    http://develop.curlyflat.net.au/images/galleries/cartoons/how-to-get-there.jpg

    HOW TO GET THERE
    Go to the end of the path until you get to the gate.
    Go through the gate and head straight out towards the horizon.
    Keep going towards the horizon.
    Sit down and have a rest every now and again,
    But keep on going, just keep on with it.
    Keep on going as far as you can.
    That’s how you get there.

    As far as moderation is concerned, I suspect those taking part will manage their own, given the tenor of the thread and its intention; could be wrong, of course, but a trial will soon test that.
    Whaddayareckon?
    I’ve posted this at the end of yesterday’s Open Mike, following a lot of discussion, if anyone’s interested to know what I’m on about 🙂
    All criticisms, suggestions welcomed, naturally.
    Robert

    • Cheers, Robert. I’ll raise this in the authors forum and see how folk feel. Just so I’m clear, are you talking about a permanent post that would ‘float’ on the front page? Or something like OM, that refreshes each day? (or maybe weekly?)

      • Robert Guyton 20.1.1

        I was imagining a post that appeared on occasion, at someone’s discretion or that of a robot.; perhaps twice a week, but that would depend on uptake during the trial period. If it’s non-intrusive and easy to do, I reckon it’d be interesting. In the interim, and before the forum is considers the proposal, I could call for a show of hands by those interested; would that help sway the Council of Elders?

        • te reo putake 20.1.1.1

          An indication of support would be very helpful, Robert. Bill proposed a women only post a while back and it didn’t get much traction. Mind you I’m not sure of the technicalities, though I do know the OM’s are set well in advance and a new one publishes each day at a preset time, so I’m sure we could set something up if people are keen.

          • Robert Guyton 20.1.1.1.1

            Right! I’ll tack up some posters around the village to let people know. So far, there’s me, WeTheBleeple, greywarshark and several others who were following last night’s discussion. That’s already twice the readership of Your NZ (in-joke, sorry).

        • greywarshark 20.1.1.2

          Robert and WTB
          I will be there and help as I can. Really like your concepts for setting up the post and keeping on continuously.

          I also liked Leunig.

          • Robert Guyton 20.1.1.2.1

            Wonderful, greywarshark! A nuanced and poetic voice joins the chorus 🙂

            • greywarshark 20.1.1.2.1.1

              Can’t beat you though Robert – at anything. I’m thinking about the right tags for the post/s too, then anyone looking up the loaded words can find their way to the input. Words like environment, farming, food future, and intentional communities – all the effing important topics!

          • WeTheBleeple 20.1.1.2.2

            I am happy with these initial suggestions. Learning as we go and letting it develop organically (yes, I did that).

            There’s a tremendous wealth of material available under the umbrella of ‘how to get there’ I really like the way it sets the intention as well.

            I’ve been pondering topics and where to start. At the doorstep.

            Unfortunately when I go to the doorstep that most hideous folk song Scarborough Fair starts playing as I have ‘parsley sage, rosemary and thyme’ out there.

            The curse of hippie sisters.

            • Robert Guyton 20.1.1.2.2.1

              Ha! Herb Alpert and the Tijuana Brass would be worse, perhaps. especially the Little Spanish Flea! Thank goodness you’ve not planted Eyebright; you’d get really saccharine:
              https://youtu.be/cGyQmH9NZcw

            • Gabby 20.1.1.2.2.2

              You ever listened to the words bleepy?

              • WeTheBleeple

                Just read through them.

                It doesn’t really seem to flow as one piece unless it’s just stating the obvious: sew me a shirt, buy me a farm, plough and harvest my fields and then I’ll love you. 😀

                Your interpretation?

                Try this. Top class.

                Redemption:

  20. Fireblade 21

    Jami-Lee Ross attended the opening of a new building at Middlemore Hospital today in his role as MP for Botany.

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12164540

    • veutoviper 21.1

      Good on him!

      And also respect to David Clark for his acknowledgement of Ross’s presence and words to him. Well worth watching the short video for that.

      Thanks for the link, fireblade.

      • cleangreen 21.1.1

        Yes me too veutoviper,

        Jami Lee needs some support here as he was the best ‘whistle blower’ we ever had from the ‘bowls of the national party dirty tricks campaign.

        Good to see jami come out of the ‘shell’ National tried to imprison him inside of..

        • Bewildered 21.1.1.1

          Come on clean green you are over playing the dirty politics angle All he exposed was that in private people are little bit more robust, that parliament and political parties are no different than any other institutions with petty jealousy, egos, narcissists etc and finally politics is a bear pit. Rumours are that Jacindas office is not exactly a temple of peace and harmony At the end Jamie lee ratted on his mates in in a game he was willing to play when it suited him I have the same respect for him as chris carter Saying all of above all the best to him and more so to his family

      • Fireblade 21.1.2

        Whatever happens, I just hope Jami-Lee Ross is feeling happier and can do what’s best for him and for the poeple who care about him.

    • Cinny 21.2

      Genuine words from David Clark towards jlr, well done Minister.

  21. Love it!

    The tangerine turnip

    “So-called comedian Michelle Wolf bombed so badly last year at the white house correspondents’ dinner that this year, for the first time in decades, they will have an author instead of a comedian,” he wrote, referencing the intense backlash that greeted Wolf’s controversial turn. Maybe I will go?”

    Michelle Wolf

    “”I bet you’d be on my side if I had killed a journalist. #BeBest,” ”

    https://i.stuff.co.nz/entertainment/tv-radio/108791528/the-sickest-burn-comedian-michelle-wolf-hands-trump-nasty-quickfire-comeback

  22. SaveNZ 23

    Lets hope Labour led government show some balls and actually have a “public” not secret enquiry.

    If the defence force pretended that they only had around 300 documents and then after some leaks found around 17,000, and get away with it, justice will not be served.

    The enquiry need to make everything public and let the truth be told warts and all. People will respect the defence force more if they are held to account than if they are allowed to cover up screw ups and crimes.

    If NZ actually does a real enquiry it will give them more respect internationally just like after the Rainbow warrior and we said no to Nukes.

    ‘Secret inquiry’ would not help public confidence, Operation Burnham hearing told

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12164690

  23. Jenny 24

    Correlation does not mean causation.

    A big splash has been made in the media about a study carried out in Singapore that found a link between elective caesareans and child obesity.

    I would suggest that parents wealthy enough to afford elective caesereans might also be more likely to over indulge their children.

    Study links elective C-sections and early childhood obesity

    ……”This study waves a flag: the rising epidemic of elective caesareans – a social trend rather than a health trend – is not without some potential costs for the baby,” Gluckman said.

    “On the other hand, when a caesarean is indicated for medical reasons there should be absolutely no hesitation, as in those circumstances it is best for mother and baby.”

    The study was led by researchers from the Duke-NUS Medical School in Singapore.

  24. eco maori 25

    Kia oar Newshub I agree black friday is just consumerism at it best .
    I read in some places in Scandinavian Europe that they all try and buy second hand is the phase crase we need to make things to last 50 years.
    Americans are ok I just don’t like the ones who kiss a idiots ass and put all our futures in doubt .
    A huge dust storm in Australia will become the new norm with Global Warming.
    It’s about time the Groper Roper story was aired on the show What I see is that the police have a big influence on what goes out in NZ media usarly trying to cast a veil to make them look Perfect and they are all linked police defence whatever.
    Mark your double H day sounds good celebrating and promoting the good protein /food we produce and cultures in Aotearoa to the Papatuanuku advertising is king in this money go round world.
    Brexit banks ripping the world’s common poor people off looks cold Lloyd in Britain .
    I went down South Edindale and some don’t like having a Maori man with Mana and Intellergints the farmer would rather lose money hiring a sheep farmer to lose his money and stock instead of a Maori with a brain that would have lifted his prophets.
    I had more experience and qualifications than the other 12 staff put together .
    scott morrison is losing in the polls he is a Climate Change denying fool .
    Mike is a good humble man he is the type of person we want the moko’s to see well done . Michael what you are saying is business people cheating once again on the inner city rail company going——–up Ka kite ano P.S he is some ones asset

  25. eco maori 26

    Chris Im having problems with your m8 here and drug test are rigged against the people who use Gods gift .

  26. eco maori 27

    The Australian governments treating Te tangata whenua like a second rate people once again it the Year of 2018 this is a crying shame to treat people like dirt .
    The bad karma will bit the people who pass these inhumane laws on the ass in the end
    fools Aboriginal leaders and community members say the changes will lead to another stolen generation. Aboriginal children and young people make up almost 40% of those in the out-of-home care system.

    AbSec, the state’s peak body representing Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander families and children, had taken out full page newspaper ads this week opposing the changes and pleading for the government to reconsider its approach.Ka kite ano. links below

    https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2018/nov/23/adoption-without-parental-consent-legalised-in-nsw The reason the Aboriginal’s of Australia are in hard ship and have a lot of there tamariki in state homes is because they have been put down suppressed robbed of there land robbed of there dignity and culture buy The European Australian settlers If I look into the history I will find there bad waiura biting the cheats on the Ass.

  27. eco maori 28

    Kia ora Newshub I will stay out of the secondary or any teachers strike topic my views have not changed .
    The old fellow yesterday hit the nail on the head yesterday when he said it was a stupid move changing OUR WOF system to give some cars a 12 month warrant time frame that’s one reason we are getting so many more accidents .
    shonky once again dancing to his business M8 wants. This is another move of his that has negative side effects on people.
    The Mokopunas will love the remake of the new Lion King now lets all treat OUR Wild life like Diamonds that’s how we should treat Papatuanuku and all her beautiful creations .
    More desprate Pee addicts doing foolish things trying to rob that restaurant I’m not making excuses just stating a fact they will do anything to get another fix.
    Skiing at this time of the year is very uncommon the Ski operators will have sore faces.
    The big storm in Auckland was a big show of Tawhirimate Mana.
    Thats good for the South Island getting there Rail ways going again after the Kaikoua earthquakes .
    What about East Coast Rail Way we need more options for fright and passengers .
    Termites are a very industrious creatures they know how to work with Papatuanuku.
    Ka kite ano Young Ice Man is looking very sharp Niki

  28. eco maori 29

    Kia ora The Crowd Goes Wild Wairangi & Anna .
    Rick is having a ball of a time in Italy touring with the All blacks.
    James has been at the Sphenodon punctatus first win Ka pai.
    Good luck to the Breakers .
    7s Rugby youth are looking sharp Josh. Yes us young fellows have to be careful we don’t strain a muscle or put the back out when playing with the youth my boys show me up lol Ka kite ano That was a good clip of James training the youth lol at first I thought the young fellow was telling nursery rhymes lol

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