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Open mike 22/07/2015

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, July 22nd, 2015 - 165 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

openmikeOpen mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose. The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

165 comments on “Open mike 22/07/2015 ”

  1. Paul 1

    The Herald is a dreadful rag, filling its pages with pap they garnered from social media about D grade ‘celebrities.’

    • The lost sheep 1.1

      They publish Pap because many people enjoy it Paul.
      If it ain’t for you, just don’t read it?
      And stop bothering us with it. I don’t think many here are interested in it.

      • Facetious 1.1.1


      • half crown 1.1.2

        “And stop bothering us with it. I don’t think many here are interested in it.”

        I am interested in his comments the same as I am interested in yours.

        I am glad he bothers us with it as it reinforces something we are aware of already and that is, the continuation of the dumbing down shit the right wing media wants us all to see. Nothing controversial, nothing that can rock the cosy right wing fucking boat, unless it is about the opposition to the right..

        Don’t read that pathetic excuse for shit house paper, but there are several international things on the go at the moment that can and will affect NZ. Have not seen one item mentioned on our Television. The likes of Christy and that simpering blond he has as a side kick are more interesting showing some guy (suppose to be funny ha ha ) taking to another’s throat with a chainsaw, minus chain of course. Very funny and mind stretching ha ha not.

        • The lost sheep

          So tell me, how do the media force people to read the pap?

          • One Anonymous Bloke

            By conflating it with several gross and disrespectful acts.

            • The lost sheep

              How would that force anyone to read it if they weren’t interested in it?

              • One Anonymous Bloke

                Why is force your benchmark? The subeditor will attack me unless I at least glance at the headline?

                What if I’m interested in the blatant monetisation of deliberate offence – let’s call it ‘bullying for money’ – and The Herald’s role in that?

                Can I read it then? Perhaps I should only read things I already agree with, eh Sheep.

                • The lost sheep

                  You’ve run way off track there OAB.
                  Force is my ‘benchmark’, because of course the media can’t force you to read or watch material you don’t freely choose to take in.
                  And even if you do freely choose to take it in, neither the media or anyone else can force you to think about it in any specific manner.

                  So when HC makes yet another variation on the theme you can read here everyday, i.e. ‘The media are brainwashing people for RW purposes’, I can tell you that is bullshit because it there is no possibility of successful brainwashing occurring.

                  Many people freely choose to watch and read pap, because they enjoy doing so, and as a believer in personal freedoms, I’m all for it.

                  • One Anonymous Bloke

                    there is no possibility of successful brainwashing occurring.

                    HC didn’t say “brainwashing”, they said “dumbing down” – and that of the media content, not the audience.

                    As for what you think is a possibility and what isn’t, the notion that public opinion cannot be influenced by the media will be of great relief to anyone concerned by the cost of advertising.

                    • The lost sheep

                      As Orwell said “Propaganda only works when it coincides with what the people were inclined towards anyway”.

                      So, no, you do not have to worry that a brilliant ad might influence you to purchase anything against your free will.
                      Nor do you have to shake with fear as you read a RW Political columnist, because you cannot be influenced by them unless you find their argument convincing and so choose to be.
                      And you don’t have to be concerned that watching the Kardashians will force you to be dumber than you have already chosen to be of your own free will.

                      So called ‘RW Media’ influence is a nonsense.
                      It is merely a bullshit mechanism by which some particularly deluded Lefties rationalise away the unacceptable reality that a great number of intelligent and rational people simply not agree with many LW theories.

                    • McFlock

                      That assumes that individuals aren’t a milieu of conflicting impulses, ls.

                      Hey, part of me wants to be a selfish prick and keep my money rather than helping others with it. A tory ad appeals to that side. Part of me wants to be mellow and just drift along rather than doing something. Pap clickbait of do-nothing “celebrities” appeals to that side of me.

                      When other parts of me want to help folk, create something, write something, or thoroughly consider a subject like the nature of our society, there is little to no encouragement of that in the MSM.

                      This is “force” in the sense of a current, constantly pushing a boat in a right-wing direction. It takes energy to fight that power, simply to remain on a centre line.

                    • The lost sheep

                      When other parts of me want to help folk, create something, write something, or thoroughly consider a subject like the nature of our society, there is little to no encouragement of that in the MSM.

                      Citation needed?
                      In among all the other areas the MSM covers, I see plenty of such material?

                      This is “force” in the sense of a current, constantly pushing a boat in a right-wing direction. It takes energy to fight that power, simply to remain on a centre line.

                      Citation needed?
                      What evidence is there that such a force in RW direction exists?
                      This topic has been discussed many times here, and I have never seen any solid conclusion to that effect reached.

                    • McFlock

                      re: your first citation request: lol. Do you want me to cite something that I just said has “little to no” existence?

                      Tell you what: for every article that you can cite from the last week of NZ media (free to air channels, radio, the major broadsheets or their websites) that encourages creativity or complex thought, I can provide ten celebrity pap or conflict-driven drivel items.

                      As for the second request: description here, in Kicking the tyres : the New Zealand general election and electoral referendum of 2011
                      Jon Johansson 1961-; Stephen I. Levine; Corin Higgs
                      Wellington, N.Z. : Victoria University Press 2012

                    • Draco T Bastard

                      So, no, you do not have to worry that a brilliant ad might influence you to purchase anything against your free will.

                      Except that it does:

                      The Influence of Advertising
                      How Advertising Manipulates Your Choices and Spending Habits (and What to Do About It)

                      You see ads every day, whether it’s on a web page, before a movie, or in the middle of a TV show, and it’s easy to say “they’re just ads” because, at worst, they feel like a nuisance or interruption. A lot of people have difficulty accepting the idea that ads are manipulative because we want to believe we’re in complete control of our choices. While the concept of advertising isn’t inherently problematic, we’ve moved on from the “Eat at Joe’s” sign to far more complex and sometimes even moving, cinematic messages that are designed to create significant memories of a product. These memories are created because an ad succeeds at making us feel something—whether it’s good or bad—and that emotional response can have a profound effect on how we think and the choices we make.

                      Businesses wouldn’t spend billions every year if advertising didn’t manipulate people.

                      Nor do you have to shake with fear as you read a RW Political columnist, because you cannot be influenced by them unless you find their argument convincing and so choose to be.

                      Bollocks. RWNJ columnists do exactly the same as the advertisers – us overly emotion laden language to hide the facts and get a positive or negative response.

                      You’re obviously of the group of people who have difficulty accepting the idea that ads are manipulative because we want to believe we’re in complete control of our choices. Because of that you’re probably more manipulated than those of us who realise that the purpose of the MSM is to manipulate people.

                    • Ergo Robertina

                      ”Tell you what: for every article that you can cite from the last week of NZ media (free to air channels, radio, the major broadsheets or their websites) that encourages creativity or complex thought, I can provide ten celebrity pap or conflict-driven drivel items.”

                      Wow that sounds like a somewhat Reithian appeal for the values underpinning decent public broadcasting, McFlock. Good to see you’ve come around.

                    • McFlock

                      Nope, it was an unashamedly subjective opinion of all media, not just public broadcasting.

                      And I still think that the critically-acclaimed Top of the Lake was shit.

                    • Ergo Robertina

                      Well, we have very little public broadcasting (the vandals are even in RadioNZ now) in this country – that’s the point.
                      I don’t know why you insist on conflating a presumably commercially viable drama (which screened on Sky) you disliked with the entire concept of public broadcasting.

                  • half crown

                    “So when HC makes yet another variation on the theme you can read here everyday, i.e. ‘The media are brainwashing people for RW purposes’, I can tell you that is bullshit because it there is no possibility of successful brainwashing occurring.”

                    Hey mate what you have just written is fucking bullshit I have just seen this crap by you I never said the media is “brainwashing” for right wing purposes see my reply to you earlier response .

          • half crown

            “So tell me, how do the media force people to read the pap? ”

            Nowhere did I imply that they were forced to read it.

            I make the point that all the media sing from the same right wing vested interest song sheet. Apart from the papers we have Hoskins, Henry, Christy, Garner, Alfred E Neuman (Gower) just to name a few giving the same right wing shit. There is no opposing views (apart from John Campbell and we all know what happened to his programme when the right started to feel “uncomfortable” with his subject matter) to create a robust debate so the general public can form a well informed opinion.

    • Facetious 1.2

      Stop whining and get on with life.

      • One Anonymous Bloke 1.2.1

        In other words, Paul, feeble trash ‘Facetious’ (Fatuous is a far better description) doesn’t like what you’re saying and would like you to stop saying it.

      • Gangnam Style 1.2.2

        “Stop whining and get on with life.” Pot meet kettle.

      • Charles 1.2.3

        Stop whining about other people whining and not getting on with their lives and get on your life without whining.

    • Puckish Rogue 1.3

      Must be the first thing you’ve said I agree with

    • ankerawshark 1.4

      I think Paul’s comments are really great. IMO he is one of a number of commenters that I value highly.

      And Open Mike is open mike………….we are free on this thread to post what we like as long as it isn’t offensive.

      Just one thing though. I am not sure this is completely mindless pap that doesn’t deserve some attention. Dom from the Edge social media comment was offensive and degrading of Crystal (I think that is her name, I don’t watch pap like Dw t S).

      I think he and his show embodies a lot of what is wrong on the airwaves. Offensive and exploitative. And remember the tee-shirt picture with “I am not sorry to be a man” taken with John Key…………….So I think it is worth reporting that many people objected to his comment and found it wasnt
      funny, but sickening really. His wife says he’s concerned when he hurts people? Then what is he going to do about his sexualizing of this woman???? The show might be pap, but its not porn.

      • Paul 1.4.1

        The Edge.
        How the right wing turn young citizens into dumbed down mindless consumers.
        Key realises the value of this propaganda outlet.
        As for the hosts, it would appear their values are in total sync with the me me me world Thatcher, Reagan and Douglas ushered in.

        Best doco ever ‘the Century of Self’ by Adam Curtis.
        Highly recommended for pr and other Rand cult believers.

        • ankerawshark

          Hi Paul,

          Agree entirely about the Edge…………….So I do think it is good if people are challenging the host Dom and saying what he posted wasn’t acceptable. Scum Dj imo.

          I do really appreciate all you posts and even though on this occasion I saw it differently, I have no problem with that. I wil try and watch the Curtis doco…..

          Cheers and keep posting.

          ps most of the Herald is pap or spin or both.

        • Realblue

          You don’t like The Edge? Don’t listen to it.

    • paul this story is about sexual harassment and objectification of women and the response to it. Learn to read the bigger story and then comment please – the minigun approach doesn’t work imo.

      • One Anonymous Bloke 1.5.1

        True, and so The Herald put it in the “entertainment” pages…

        • marty mars

          Front page is what I saw – this has been top for a couple of days and the responses from each party have been very interesting imo – a microscope showing some germs indeed.

          • One Anonymous Bloke

            I’m going from the url – Paul’s link.

            I was pleased to see the Clayton’s apology called out for what it was, as well as the ‘shock jock’ modus operandi on display. I hadn’t seen the front page. I note they’re calling it the “DWTS feud”, as opposed to “Idiot makes a mess, refuses to clean up.”

    • Morrissey 1.6

      Maybe the tone and quality will improve when they hire that racist Taupo WINZ manager as a columnist?

    • Draco T Bastard 1.7

      In Defence of Chrystal Chenery

      What this torrent of hostility has proved is that women’s bodies are still being treated differently. This difference is the reason Simon Barnett can wheel out his nips on ’80s night a mesh vest, yet when I go to recreate his iconic costume I make myself wear a singlet underneath for modesty. It’s the reason Dom Harvey himself can pointedly rip off his pants and shake his jockeys down the camera lens, and yet Chrystal is hounded on Facebook for being a “slut”, after exposing her underpants for a fraction of a second as a consequence of jaw-droppingly difficult routine. It’s like how Si’s shirtless ‘Dad bod’ has probably got a gold shrine in Hagley Park by now, and yet Chrystal is the one coming under fire for wearing a short sparkly dress in a dancing competition.

  2. Realblue 2

    So don’t read it. Every day you complain about the bloody Herald, be a grown up and make a grown up decision. Don’t read it.

    • One Anonymous Bloke 2.1


      What’s with the trashy wingnut tag-team attention Paul’s getting this morning. Paul must be doing something right.

      • Ben 2.1.1

        OAB to the rescue (again). Paul’s post simply reinforces the fact that he is intolerant of other people’s opinions and viewing habits.

        Whether he likes it or not, the JJ saga is one of the 5 most viewed pages on The Hearld – why would they stop pushing the story when it is so popular? Guess what Paul..? There are other people out there that are younger, less bitter and more outgoing than you, and they actually enjoy that stuff. Not me, but I certainly don’t complain about it, and don’t click on it.

        • One Anonymous Bloke

          Paul makes no such comments. His alleged intolerance is your inference. To me it looks like he’s castigating The Herald, and several wingnuts want him to shut up.

          Intolerance of other people’s views is on display alright. Just not from Paul.

      • infused 2.1.2

        All Paul does is whinge. Much like yourself. I guess that’s why you come to his aid all the time.

        • One Anonymous Bloke


          You are a nasty hostile lot this morning, aren’t you. What’s the matter, did floods go under your bridges or something?

          • maui

            The wringers like the bad boys, and Dom is just one of the so called brat pack, along with Hoskings and Henry. As well as bad boys it seems they just like bad newspapers to go along side.

            • McFlock

              “brat pack”?
              Makes them sound like endearing wee scamps.

              More like fuck-ruck.

      • Paul 2.1.3

        Clearly critiquing the news is not acceptable for some. I certainly hit a nerve by commenting on their propaganda machine.

        If the Herald were only outlet out of many and it was foisting this celebrity sensationalism on us, then I’d probably defer from commenting so regularly on it. But the Herald is the only newspaper in the Auckland region.

        And Fairfax’s garbage is probably worse. Their stable of papers pump out pretty much the same level of trivia posing as news.

        TV news has degenerated into the pap led by Hosking, Henry, Christie and others. Unbiased high level news it certainly isn’t.

        If you turn on the radio airwaves, there are the odd oases, but here they are still dominated by the shrill voices on ZB and Radio Live.

        So you see in NZ there are only a small minority of voices now that don’t subscribe to the neo-liberal propaganda machine. And this has seen a gradual and deliberate dumbing down of the population, so that many citizens are able to dicsuss the All Blacks, Reality TV shows and celebrity gossip in great detail, yet are ignorant about the issues that really affect their lives, like the TPP, Climate Change, the neoliberal experiment and foreign affairs, to name but a few.

        I think that this is the reason the shills for the elite who attend this site don’t like my critique of the Herald.

        Can I encourage everyone, including those attacking me with their usual ad hominems, to watch this film. It’s about the Amercian media and in many ways our own media is more owned and controlled than theirs?

    • RedLogix 2.2

      Actually you are right RB. Scoop, Guardian, RadioNZ, RT, Aljazeera are all a LOT more interesting. The local rags really are just a bad habit.

    • DH 2.3

      “Every day you complain about the bloody Herald, be a grown up and make a grown up decision. Don’t read it.”

      The irony is thick here…… could also tell the lurking media types to stop reading The Standard if they don’t like what they read.

  3. Skinny 3

    Not surprisingly ‘the good ole boys network’ running Auckland Super City. Asian and Pacific Islander’s well under represented.


  4. Brendan 4

    House price rise increases inequality – English. No shit Bill! What have you been doing about that?


    • tc 4.1

      Making sure it continues as that what their backers want.

      Blinglish is good at faking concern which comes from a lifetime in the beltway never working outside the bubble of treasury/national party MP.

      • One Anonymous Bloke 4.1.1

        “We’re keen to get the cost of housing down”.

        That’s the plan: aspirational.

        One way house prices can come down is when the bubble goes pop and people are left with negative equity. I wonder if Double Dipton has heard of that.

        • Draco T Bastard

          Probably counting on it as it makes it easier to shift more people into private rentals so that the rentiers can become bigger bludgers.

  5. vto 5

    it is that time of the year when the absence of the rich in our neighbourhoods is noticed.

    they are all in the islands or northern hemisphere, hiding from the cold and dark winter…. they do it every year …….

    and do you know what? It highlights their lack of use in society. We all carry on, doing the necessary work to keep our communities going, smiling with the gods of life..

    .. while they are absent. The rich are unnecessary and this time of life when they all abandon our lands proves it.

    The rich are of no use. Proved.

    • Clean_power 5.1

      How do you know they are not saying exactly the same about you while wherever they are enjoying their holidays? The poor are of no use. Proved.

      It cuts both ways.

      • One Anonymous Bloke 5.1.1

        That must be why general strikes are illegal. No, wait…

      • adam 5.1.2

        So you hate the poor Clean_power?

        Well that explains a lot about why you come across as having no empathy – and very little in the way of ethics.

      • vto 5.1.3

        Clean-power that is a useless statement / knee jerk response. But nonetheless…… how is such proved? How is it that the rich being out of the country and the poor being in the country prove that the poor are of no use?

        It doesn’t.

        And unless you can come up with something quickly then you are an idiot. And a waste of space – you wouldn’t happen to be rich per chance would you?

        • Clean_power

          No, I do not hate the poor (but you seem to hate the rich).
          I was using the analogy to ridicule your absurd and nonsensical statement “The rich are of no use. Proved.”

          • vto

            I didn’t ask if you hate the poor.

            And there is nothing absurd or nonsensical about my statement that the rich are of no use. I made the statement and then provided some evidence to prove it, namely that the country carries on regardless when the rich are out of the country, therefore the rich are useless.

            What evidence have you got for your baseless statement that the poor are useless? Anything? You have nothing so far – nothing. You’ve got nothing clean-power. You are useless too. Put up or shut up.

          • Charles

            I notice you use words I would not have used, in ways I would not consider. Possibly you are not me, which would explain a lot. I say this to expose the nonsensical absurdity of you not being me.

      • McFlock 5.1.4

        Oh, I’m sure they have interchangable poor people where they holiday. To make the cocktails and clean the shower.

      • Draco T Bastard 5.1.5


        So, no, it doesn’t cut both ways. We can do without the rich. In fact, we can’t afford them and we should stop paying for them.

      • Paul 5.1.6

        A very telling statement.

  6. The Chairman 6

    The ultimate Claytons dairy farm sale

    Shanghai Pengxin spokeswoman confirmed that there was no intention on the part of the company to sell the farms but it was going through the procedure because it had to follow the law.


    • The Chairman 6.1

      Ponder this:

      If one can openly tout they are merely going through the process, what’s the point of such toothless legislation?


    • vto 6.2

      If there is an obligation to put the farms up for sale then there is clearly an obligation to sell….

      will be interesting to see an offer come in
      will be interesting to see them turn down the offer
      will be interesting to see a high court judge consider their refusal to accept offer and make them sell

      this should be most definitely be played out through the courts, especially in light of the fact that the company has stated it has no intention of genuinely offering for sale, contrary to the legislation ………

  7. Molly 7

    One for philure if he is still visiting….

    The Yes Men: Skip Showers for Beef campaign.

  8. Molly 8

    Nick Smith will be heading to Aussie in October to talk to some of their social housing non-profits. So the intent to offload state housing at all costs will continue.

    Would have had more credibility if this kind of investigation had taken place before the decision to offload had been made. But even then – it has nothing to do with outcomes, just ideology.

  9. Morrissey 9

    “We’re white. That’s the problem. We’re white.”
    The spirit of Sir Paul Holmes raises its ugly head in Taupo

    A Māori woman and a Pākehā male are refused entry into a Taupo bar because of inebriation issues. The Pākehā male glares in outraged faux-wonderment at the bouncer, who is Māori, and rants at the bouncer in a wheedling tone….

    (I’ve edited out the drunken contributions by his female companion, and also the good-natured, professional restraint of the bouncer.)

    “That’s why your bar’s shit. You don’t let the right people in. We wanna come in here and pay money. … [some indistinct mumbling]…. We’re WHITE. That’s the problem. We’re white, that’s the problem. Intoxicated? You don’t even know what intoxicated means. That’s CRAZY! I can’t believe you would say that. I’ve just WATCHED who you’ve let in. Unbelievable. Unbelievable. Unbelievable. Racist, that’s what it is. Racist shit. F***ing n***ers! No that’s what it is, racist shit. That’s what it is.”

    If this fool is fired, as he should be, no doubt he would fit in perfectly to a job at NewstalkZB.


    • Puckish Rogue 9.1

      His sense of entitlement and playing of the race card suggests he should stand for Labour at the next election

      • Morrissey 9.1.1

        No, it’s National that’s the racist party. Certainly, Labour has come out of the Chinese names fiasco looking incredibly inept, and many people were disturbed by the Clark government’s brutal persecution of Ahmed Zaoui, which involved a considerable element of racism.

        So Labour is by no means perfect, as we have seen recently. But it is National that still bears the shame of the overtly racist 1975 campaign—they were targeting Pacific Islanders back then—and, more recently, the shame of Don Brash’s anti-Māori campaign, and employed the maliciously racist John Ansell to design the infamous “Iwi/Kiwi” billboards.

        • Puckish Rogue

          Of course the dawn raids were started by Labour in 1973 but yes National did continue them with gusto

          • Morrissey

            “With gusto”? That’s a very diplomatic way of portraying a campaign of overwhelming force against people who National voters at that time sneeringly called “the Coconuts”. People like Sam Lotu-Liga seem to be unaware of that, but most Pasifika people are not.

            • Puckish Rogue

              I’m sure there more than a few union memebers that were anti “the Coconuts” taking “their” jobs at the time as well

              • Morrissey

                I’m sure there more than a few union memebers that were anti “the Coconuts” taking “their” jobs at the time as well

                There were racist workers, of course. They voted for Muldoon.

    • weka 9.2

      Still don’t know why who they’re employed by was an issue.

      • Morrissey 9.2.1

        Still don’t know why who they’re employed by was an issue.

        Actually, it’s crucial. That Mike Hosking/Paul Holmes soundalike ranting about “f***ing ni**ers” is a senior manager at Work and Income New Zealand. Surely that is one organisation that demands a minimal standard of decency and decorum. Well, at least since Christine Spankin’ Rankin left.

        • weka

          Yes, the dept should look at that. But it’s not part of the news story unless they were on work time.

          • Morrissey

            That’s true, but they hold positions of public responsibility in a small town, and to behave with such a flagrant disregard of public decency—unleashing that obscenity-larded racist tirade—surely disqualifies him from holding that position from now on.

            His female companion’s behaviour was foolish, and she was drunk in a public place—but the really offensive behaviour was all on the part of the male.

            • weka

              That might all be true, and given he got himself filmed in public I hope his employers do look at the incident and consider how this might impact on his ability to do his job. But it still is not a matter for the media or public unless he was on work time.

  10. My two cents on Max and Instagram and why I think we should be discussing children. Everybody’s children. period!

    Politician’s Children Should Be Left Alone…. Should They?

  11. cricklewood 12

    Sean Plunkett has just ripped corrections minister to shreds on radio live. He managed to get confirmation the victim was injured at Mount Eden prior to the transfer…

    • McFlock 12.1

      This really is fucking disgusting.

      I really hope some prisoners manage to sue the crap out of Serco and corrections.

    • greywarshark 12.2

      Gosh all day it has been like the immaculate conception just like a bolt out of the blue sometime after arrival at Ngawha.

      And my racist feelings are getting the better of me. If I’m going to hear some johnny talking down the grim Serco reality why can’t it be a Kiwi, nawt a Scotsman.

  12. Clemgeopin 13

    Sam Lotu Iinga, Corrections Minister answers (?) Sean Plunket’s simple questions on Radio Live:

    Listen and get enlightened.


    • crashcart 13.1

      Wow it was really nice of Plunket to install that new asshole for the minister. He may have been able to be a bit more gentle but it sounds like it is really big.

      • mac1 13.1.1

        The Corrections Minister will be sacked after that interview with Sean Plunket for his inability to lie and obfuscate with ease, and for his not bailing out of the interview once he started getting the rough handling.

        “Can I suggest to you Minister that you get better prepared because it’s very hard to interview you when you are not prepared.” (paraphrased)

        This however was the same minister who had no problem with accusing Labour’s first speaker, Kelvin Davis, in the urgent debate on Serco and Mt Eden of bringing a dead man into the argument.

        In essence what the Minister was saying was that he won’t speak until he has all the facts, and hopefully that won’t be until the media has moved onto the next important issue such as crotch-displays and drunken drummers.

        The Minister has not answered why reports many months old were not acted upon by persons responsible in Serco and the Department which spoke of staged fights, harm including broken jaws, broken legs and ruptured lungs.

        Also not answered is why Serco did not know about what inmates were up to without supervision when congregated together. No staff member around? No body to hear the sounds of fighting? No officer to check the damage done to bodies?

        The Speaker was right in his introduction to allow the urgent debate. This is an important matter. Kelvin Davis was also right to point out that the State has the right to incarcerate and also the obligation to care for those it incarcerates.

        Not only are prisoners poorly supervised and being harmed by other inmates but prisoners are not getting the help which inmates need to help address their problems.

        A society is judged on its treatment of its most vulnerable and powerless. Inmates, especially on remand and awaiting trial, are at the mercy of the quality and amount of protection offered by their jailers, acting on the government’s, and our, behalf.

        • Colonial Rawshark


          the ability to take away a persons freedom is amongst the most coercive powers of the Crown – therefore it must not be contracted out and the Crown must fully discharge all responsibilities associated with the exercise of that coercive power.

        • greywarshark

          The Nacts would be inclined to allocate this unpleasant Corrections portfolio to one of their brown group, or one of the women, but more likely to be a man. It would not be high on the pecking order I should think.

          Social Welf is an interesting one, suitable for a woman but also with a very large budget so having managed that successfully, if that is a suitable word, Poorer Benefit has proved herself.

          Corrections, should be a doddle according to the theory of Private Enterprise Proficiency or PEP – just made that up – but theory and reality being long divorced poor Corrections guy better take his suits in, as he’s going to lose weight.

  13. Les 14

    from ‘The Big Short’-Michael Lewis-‘we have a simple thesis…said Eisman.There is going to be a calamity,and whenever there is a calamity,Merrill is there.Merrill Lynch was the little fat kid assigned the least pleasant roles,just happy to be part of things’.Interesting read in light of Wall St bankers comments that ‘no one saw it coming(GFC)’.The complicity and duplicity of the ratings agencies and financial institutions and the amorality and incompetence is mind blowing.And what has changed?Aren’t we lucky to have an ex Merrill manager as P.M….THE ‘BEST’ IS YET TO COME.:(

  14. weka 15

    Sharon Murdoch nails Key again as Hawaiian Joy Germ Hits New Zealand,

  15. Clemgeopin 16


    1. Dr JIAN YANG to the Minister of Finance: What recent reports has he received on the performance of the New Zealand economy and the Government’s management of its finances?

    2. ANDREW LITTLE to the Prime Minister: Does he stand by his justification for the $26 million process to consider changing the flag that “It’s just sheer confusion with Australia. Even at APEC they tried to take me to Abbott’s seat”?

    3. Rt Hon WINSTON PETERS to the Prime Minister: Does he stand by all his statements?

    4. Dr PARMJEET PARMAR to the Minister for Building and Housing: What are the costs and benefits of the recently announced changes to the Residential Tenancies Act 1986 that will require homes to be insulated and to have smoke alarms?

    5. GRANT ROBERTSON to the Minister of Finance: When did he first become aware that there was an international glut of dairy products and does he stand by his reported comments that he has no plans to take active steps to diversify the economy in response to falling dairy prices?

    6. JAMES SHAW to the Prime Minister: Does he stand by his answers to Oral Question No. 4 yesterday?

    7. RICHARD PROSSER to the Minister of Finance: Is he still sceptical about how effective a register of foreign property buyers would be; if so, why?

    8. Dr SHANE RETI to the Minister of Health: What recent reports has he received on the effectiveness of the child immunisation programme?

    9. PHIL TWYFORD to the Minister of Finance: Does he stand by his statement about whether inequality was a problem in the Auckland housing market, “We’ve been concerned about that for some time, that there’s part of Auckland where there’s been really no new supply of lower value houses that low and middle-income families can afford”?

    10. JONO NAYLOR to the Minister of Justice: What announcements has she made about improving the oversight and supervision for offenders deported to New Zealand?

    11. METIRIA TUREI to the Prime Minister: Does he stand by his statement that “You certainly wouldn’t want to say to a low-income family they can never own a home, because I believe that they can own a home.”?

    12. KELVIN DAVIS to the Minister of Corrections: Does he stand by his statement in regards to the July 2014 report on fight clubs in Mt Eden Corrections Facility, that he “became aware of the report’s existence only late last week”?


    1. MAHESH BINDRA to the Member in charge of the New Zealand International Convention Centre Act 2013 Repeal Bill: What is the intention of the New Zealand International Convention Centre Act 2013 Repeal Bill?

    2. CLAYTON MITCHELL to the Member in charge of the Fighting Foreign Corporate Control Bill: What is the intention of the Fighting Foreign Corporate Control Bill?



    • greywarshark 16.1

      Heard Kelvin Davis on radionz this morning and he fronted up to media confidently, clearly and with thoughtful approach so he wasn’t caught out in any traps.

      • Puckish Rogue 16.1.1

        To think Labour (and more than a few people on here as well) wanted him to throw in the towel and let Hone win

      • Chooky 16.1.2

        greywarshark +100…Kelvin Davis seems to be doing quite well…he would make a good Labour list MP….thereby leaving TTT to Mana/Int and Hone ( Mana/Int had some great prospective MPs….)

        …thereby creating a valuable flaxroots/grassroots Left Maori Party coalition partner for Labour ( similar to the supportive role Act plays for Nactional)…

      • Morrissey 16.1.3

        Heard Kelvin Davis on radionz this morning and he fronted up to media confidently, clearly and with thoughtful approach so he wasn’t caught out in any traps.

        I presume by your positive comment that he did better than he did when attacked by Paul Henry on TV3 just after 7 o’clock. Davis was clearly rattled by Henry’s aggressive, disrespectful tone, and became practically incoherent. I’m going to put up a transcript of the débâcle on Open Mike tomorrow morning.

        • greywarshark

          Yes Radio this a.m. I don’t watch tv at present. I feel disinclined to watch anything put on by sleaze running television now except for Maori which I hope is managing to not get sucked into the vortex. Trying to hold onto thoughts while being needled by death heads like Henry sounds would rattle anyone. Perhaps all pollies should go to boot camps conducted by trained Army, police personnel or callous courtroom lawyers trained in intensive questioning.

  16. joe90 17

    Tory wrecking ball set to wreck everything that’s good about informing, educating and entertaining.


  17. Rosemary McDonald 18

    And in the “Government employee actually does his job” category…

    Paul Gibson addresses the Health Select Committee…


    Paul Gibson has been so consistently staunch in his government paid role as the advocate for disabled people that I constantly fear for his continued employment.

  18. greywarshark 19

    A book that all Labour fans may not have read.

    by Warwick Johnston
    It is election night, 5 December 1890. Willis Street in Wellington is a sea of people all jostling for a vantage point in front of the massive illuminated results board. This night is the culmination of an extraordinary year in our brief history. It heralds the dawn of socialism, unionism, and inevitably, the New Zealand Labour Party. In 1890 we see the events leading up to the election through the eyes of two fledgling union activists, Marty and Tui, in a fresh and insightful perspective of one of our most turbulent and significant eras.

    Available Trademe $22 Buy Now Free shipping

    • greywarshark 19.1

      Book – WW1
      Trme $23 post $3 (comes from Oz)

      Good-bye to all that by Robert Graves
      There was no patriotism in the trenches. It was too remote a sentiment, and rejected as fit only for civilians. A new arrival who talked patriotism would soon be told to cut it out. As Blighty, Great Britain was a quiet, easy place to get back to out of the present foreign misery, but as a nation it was nothing. This is the original version of Robert Graves’ intense memoir of the First World War, restoring this raw, emotionally truthful, darkly comic work to the way it was first written, by a young man still reeling from the trenches.

      We see the dark heart of the book even more clearly, and hear it beating even more loudly, in this original edition than we do in the comparatively careful and considered terms of the later one’ Andrew Motion ‘One of the most candid self-portraits, warts and all, ever painted. (TLS). Robert Graves was born in 1895 in Wimbledon. He went from school to the First World War, where he became a captain in the Royal Welch Fusiliers and was seriously wounded at the Battle of the Somme. He wrote his autobiography, Goodbye to All That, in 1929, and it was soon established as a modern classic. He died on 7 December 1985 in Majorca, his home since 1929.

      Andrew Motion’s most recent collection of poetry is The Cinder Path. He was poet laureate from 1999 to 2009 and is now Professor of Creative Writing at Royal Holloway, University of London. Fran Brearton is Professor of Modern Poetry at Queen’s University Belfast and author of The Great War in Irish Poetry.

      • Chooky 19.1.1

        +100..great book!

      • half crown 19.1.2

        Thanks for that greywarshark, I am always on the outlook for good new reading material especially when someone can give a good appraisal.
        I have just finished Thomas Pakenham’s Boar War. If you have not read it I can highly recommend it.
        A large book but extremely comprehensive Without giving too much detail about it all I can say is that History has a nasty habit of repeating itself and fucking politicians of all colours never learn.
        For Blair and Bush with the weapons of mass destruction to get at the oil in Iraq, read Rhodes and Milner and the poor Uitlanders to get at the Rand gold.
        The British generals would have been the biggest bunch of incompetents the world has seen with some of them going on to create mayhem in the first world war like Butcher Haig, Hamilton, and the biggest prat of them all who set up the concentration camps in South Africa, Kitchener.

        I will try and get 1890 on my e reader.

        Another good book, once again if you have not read it is “It’s Not Rocket Science” by Ben Miller
        Never heard of him but he’s a comedian in the uk
        This is what the preamble says about the book.
        Black holes. DNA. The Large Hadron Collider. Ever had that sneaking feeling that you are missing out on some truly spectacular science?
        You do? Well, fear not, for help is at hand.
        Ben Miller was working on his Physics PhD at Cambridge when he accidentally became a comedian. But first love runs deep, and he has returned to his roots to share with you all his favourite bits of science. This is the stuff you really need to know, not only because it matters but because it will quite simply amaze and delight you.
        ‘Let me show you another, perhaps less familiar side of Science; her beauty, her seductiveness and her passion. And let’s do it quickly, while Maths isn’t looking’

        • greywarshark

          Great half crown. Thanks for heads up.
          Talking about science I was trying an aphorism out in my head so will try it out on you. Don’t worry telling me if you don’t like it!

          On spending $100 mill (or pounds) looking for signs of intelligent life in space,
          I think this goes from blue sky research to black hole. And if it’s good science then we might find pi in the sky.

          And I consider comparing the venture to James Cook setting out into unknown waters, is like the simplistic comparing of the nation’s economic transactions with a citizen’s household budget.

          If they wanted to do some blue sky research on earth, they could scan the brains of all politicians and armed forces heads and advisors? Probably nearly all aliens if we only knew.

          • half crown

            Ha I like it.
            I have thought for ages that a lot of politicians are Aliens. There is a lot of Si Fi fiction about Aliens amongst us I am not sure that it is fiction, it is for real.
            Apart from the politicians The likes of Gower and Hoskins are definitely not from this world.
            It has been said the only thing that has made Prof Hawkins survive all these years with that terrible Motor Neuron disease is his determination of solving his theories on black Holes.
            Is the singularity a potential big bang into another dimension?
            Apart from doing some blue sky research, he can resolve and prove his theorem by coming to NZ, as I suspect our John Key and his government are definitely from another dimension.
            Think of all the money they will save, as it will only cost them the air fare and accommodation and I don’t think they will need to stay longer than half hour.

            On a more serious note , many on here have suggested good books to read.
            So please keep us informed of any good books you have read. I do look at Good Reads but I find books suggested by other people are always good as the y tend to give a unbiased opinion.
            That Boar War was suggested to me by a South African, he also suggested Pakenham’s “Scramble for Africa” The little bits I have read, it appears to be another good book.

    • Chooky 19.2

      thanks..is this a new book ie can I get it at Whitcoulls?

      • greywarshark 19.2.1

        Hi Chooky
        Can try. Here is the guff about it. Perhaps you can phone or email and ask – quote number etc.

        This is from online Southern Skies that has it for about $13.60 approx. There are numerous copies from different suppliers on line, and each seems to have a different number. I guess this is for different editions. Prices differ and not all of them mention other poets and writers like Motion.
        Product Details:
        ISBN: 9781909621053
        Format: Hardback
        Pages: 480
        Dims (mm): 93 x 150
        Pub Date: 01-09-13
        Pub Country: United Kingdom
        Condition: NEW

  19. McFlock 20

    I read somewhere but lost the link that the SNP have nicked the opposition front benches from Labour after the UKLabs abstained on the tory welfare cuts. SNP decided that the Opposition needs to actually oppose in order to deserve the title 🙂

  20. G C 21

    John Key is killing it in The House today. Andrew Little leading with questions about the ‘flag’! John Key totally made Mr Little look like an out-of-touch fool!

    National are now asking themselves the ‘big topic’ questions. Labour have yet again missed an opportunity – opportunities are just hanging on the vine for Labour, yet they wont pick them.

    Labour seems like a hopeless case. #ShiftingCamps

    Hold Up… …Here comes Grant Robertson on Dairy…


  21. Macro 22

    El Nino brings hottest 6th month global temperatures in 136 years of records – and still developing. So much for an “hiatus”! Look for a hum dinger of a drought here this summer folks. Thank goodness I’m not a dairy farmer.

    • Chooky 22.1

      pretty sobering!…last summer was unbearable at times….and some farmers still have not received rain…desperate alright…especially if you are a dairy farmer

      I am puzzled however about the talk of a new small ‘ice age’ coming in the next 15 years…personally i hope so…although it may not do much to stop global warming




      • Chooky 22.1.1

        Looks like the ‘ice age’ will only buy time from the relentless global warming:


        ‘There Probably Won’t Be A “Mini Ice Age” In 15 Years’

        Zharkova ” commented on how the changes in the Sun are likely to affect the Earth’s environment. “During the minimum, the intensity of solar radiation will be reduced dramatically. So we will have less heat coming into the atmosphere, which will reduce the temperature.”

        However, Zharkova ends with a word of warning: not about the cold but about humanity’s attitude toward the environment during the minimum. We must not ignore the effects of global warming and assume that it isn’t happening. “The Sun buys us time to stop these carbon emissions,” Zharkova says. The next minimum might give the Earth a chance to reduce adverse effects from global warming.

      • Macro 22.1.2

        I wouldn’t hold out much hope for that Chooky. The physics regarding the solar minimum is fine – yes that is likely to happen around then, but the drop in solar energy received will be about equivalent to the current energy imbalance of the Earth now (approx 3 w /sq m) that drop would only last for a few years at most and would only lead to a slowdown in global warming – not an “ice age”. That is never going to happen in the short to medium term – there is already too much carbon in the atmosphere. The mathematics/physic prof should have consulted a climate scientist before shooting her mouth off about a “mini-ice-age”. Valentina Zharkova would have been quickly informed that such was not the case.

        • Chooky

          yes I see belatedly that you are probably right…sigh….I am going to load up with baked beans , matches and head for the nearest ravine when it gets too hot…will take cats and have invited friends …family thinks it is funny …but I say you have to have a plan and be prepared ….but even being prepared will probably only delay the inevitable…death by frying

          …in the meantime plant more trees!

          • Macro

            🙂 I will not see it or least ways I’ll be a very old man by then. But I fear for my children and grandchildren. They will bear the brunt of it.
            Was out planting trees today. We have a very active group here lead by Ken (90! ) replanting wetlands by the new Kopu Bridge. You can see the Ngaio raising their heads above the old man mangroves as you pass over the bridge now. The pohutakawa are doing well – some flowered last summer – and the ariel roots are making an appearance. Just 400 meters from our home is the oldest arboretum in the country and I spend some time in there as well tending tracks and weeding etc.

            • Chooky

              great!..there is great satisfaction in planting trees

            • BM

              Being a baby boomer do you carry guilt for the state that the world is.

              Do you believe that you are some how responsible and need to make amends before you pass on?

              • Macro

                Being a baby boomer do you carry guilt for the state the the world is.

                Yes I do. In my younger days I was quite a petrol head. Owned my first car at age 15. I still have my motorcycle (1957 R50 BMW), a classic car, and 2 others. There is no public transport here. But my petrol usage has dropped substantially having moved from the country into town. 5 mins gets me almost everywhere I need to go these days.
                In the 1950’s and 60’s the concept of Global warming was little known – and indeed wasn’t really fully understood until the 80’s. I had the fortune to travel to Welliington each day in the late 70’s early 80’s with one of NZ’s foremost Climate Scientists who was at that time just completing his Doctorate on the NZ temperature record. As I was an educator in mathematics and science he and I had long and interesting discussions as to the nature of Global warming – so I became interested in climate science then and have followed it closely ever since. I have also been actively involved for a number of years working to bring awareness to as many as I can.

                • Chooky

                  @Macro…….many brownie points for educating on climate change….I have found it hard to understand …or havent been bothered to try…however I recognise it is THE major problem facing humanity and the planet and ecosystems and animals…

                  recently I have been reading a book given to me by a friend ‘This Changes Everything’ by Naomi Klein on the issues around climate change….am finding it surprisingly compelling and easy to read….

                  • Macro

                    Yes that is a very good book. She is a great communicator – I bought it for my daughter who is also very active in this area. Her “Shock Doctrine” is also a must read as is “War without end” – to which she is a contributing author.

              • Chooky

                @ BM…moi?…well I still have a wood fire…a luxury I guess ( but we grow trees too)…I have only had two children and admire those who don’t have any( the rest of my immediate family and my partner’s have not replaced themselves)…i do drive a car approx.twice a week ( dont speed)…i dont use planes often …in fact rarely ( but that is only because I cant afford airfares)…i like to travel by train and tram and bus…we cook most of our meals…( rarely eat out)…have a vege garden( not a good one)…try to eat locally…like op shops for clothes best!…. visit the hair dresser infrequently….when I die I want to be buried in a sheet and dug in ….and have tree planted on top ( so no cremation smoke /funeral/ embalming burial costs or ghastly speeches…they can pass the whiskey bottle around )..support Green Peace and environmental groups

                …most of all I am proud that I live in an environmentally aware culture and dont live in an overpopulated culture…to me overpopulation is the biggest curse …and humankind’s biggest irresponsibility…those countries which have cultural overpopulation ( generally coexist with patriarchal sexism) and environmental problems should sort them out…and not spread their overpopulation and problems to other countries

                so no i dont feel overburdened with guilt about global warming

            • Macro

              ps – I’m a fan of the furry friends too 🙂 our HRH the princess shinky-paws lollabout, is now cat napping after 3 helpings of dinner on the sofa.

            • maui

              Good man! I do a bit of that too, tree planting that is.

  22. Paul 23

    The ACT Party propose the continued fire sale of our country to speculators from Beijing, Berlin, Birmingham and Boston.


    • Clemgeopin 23.1

      It is both astonishing and sad that the philosopher has focused on a very narrow view and hasn’t really thought things through properly. Most of the readers commenting on the article seem to have understood the matter much better.

  23. Chooky 24

    ACT is a mad dog …and mad dogs should be ….

  24. Chooky 25

    …transmogrification? …whatever the nature of the beast ….it is still keeping jonkey nact alive

  25. Mike the Savage One 26

    With all good will and desire for democracy and liberty, how can we fight these forces, well equipped by endless numbers of volunteers and mercenaries, from poverty, readily radicalised, to take up arms?


    I despair about the future and lack of answers.

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