Open mike 22/07/2016

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, July 22nd, 2016 - 86 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

openmikeOpen mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose. The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

86 comments on “Open mike 22/07/2016 ”

  • Comments are now closed

  1. miravox 1
    22 July 2016 at 6:43 am

    so, is Donald Trump’s Vice presidential choice, the Koch brother-funded, tea party stalwart and neo-lib devotee, Mike Pence, the Machiavelli to Trump as Cheney was to Bush Jr?

  2. Paul 2
    22 July 2016 at 7:24 am

    Bill English has no answers to the housing crisis.
    Listening to him being interviewed on Morning Report revealed a complete lack of ideas.
    How on earth is this guy credited with any competence at all?
    Utterly useless.

    • TC 2.1
      22 July 2016 at 10:13 am

      Hes credited by the msm copy/pasting national spin.

      National run a very effective intimidation regime which gags fact based analysis on their performance.

      English has presided over a systematic sale of kiwi assets, bailed out a finance company he and key were told not to have in the guarantee scheme, done nothing about broadening the tax base and generally been the arrogant front of the hollowing out of the nz economy.

  3. mauī 3
    22 July 2016 at 8:16 am

    Women armed with tennis balls terrorise Republican convention (5 min clip). The absurd:

    • ianmac 3.1
      22 July 2016 at 8:38 am

      I suppose the police just have to follow orders. But the publicity on the World stage underlines the absurdity. So the consolation for the police is that they are doing something to further cause of dis-arming.

    • save nz 3.2
      22 July 2016 at 9:45 am

      Apparently they are all allowed guns in the protest, but toys are banned. The police rushed over to pepper spray their tennis ball protest against guns. Only in America!

      • Bill 3.2.1
        22 July 2016 at 10:54 am

        Hmm. Wonder what happens if you’re carrying a toy gun? Or maybe one that shoots splurge like in that old Bugsy Malone film? What if it fires out tennis balls – maybe a bit painful – or ping pong balls?

        • adam 3.2.1.1
          22 July 2016 at 1:40 pm

          All criminal Bill.

          You will be arrested.

          • McFlock 3.2.1.1.1
            22 July 2016 at 1:54 pm

            actually, that could be challengable, as long as the device propels a projectile. It’s the right to bear arms. Nerf guns might be defensible.

            • adam 3.2.1.1.1.1
              22 July 2016 at 2:59 pm

              One simple sentence, with two different capitalisations and punctuation. Both recognised as part of the constitution. No wonder this is a headache.

              “A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.”

              And the other

              “A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.”

              Yeah I think it may be defensible, if you get to court. Before then, I was under the impression the police were running with everything is illegal, hence a crime, then they would arrest you.

  4. Paul 4
    22 July 2016 at 8:36 am

    Winston calls for English’s resignation.

    If you can’t provide adequate housing for yor citizens, you shouldn’t be in the business of government.

    http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/political/309184/peters-calls-for-english-to-resign-over-housing-crisis

    • ianmac 4.1
      22 July 2016 at 8:43 am

      Winston can put across ideas so effectively. Who else can match him for colour. Key just mumbles and contradicts himself and dissembles.
      (And I don’t even vote for NZF,)

      • TC 4.1.1
        22 July 2016 at 10:25 am

        Simple, effective and delivered with a passion people can buy into.

        If only the rest of the opposition could do the same and stop lecturing voters to sleep. Twyford does good work but when the opportunity arises blows it with nerdy unecessary statements rather than short snappy soundbites.

        Learn from the master lab/greens ! Expose the sellouts for what they are.

  5. Ad 5
    22 July 2016 at 9:19 am

    I’ve wondered over the last 48 hours whether the uproar at the Republican Convention would more hurt or hinder their electoral chances overall. My view now is it’s been overwhelmingly positive.

    Trump and Cruz are speaking a very precise populist dialect, which has been honed by professional wrestling. It’s about the feuds; whether one wife has perkier tits than the other, their father a wastrel, one family’s makeup and wardrobe tattier than the other, one verbal beat-down more spectacular than the next. This stuff inspires legendary feuds and legendary followers.

    As a reality television star, Donald Trump is the Masked Undertaker taking down the era of austerity, surveillance, neoliberal nightmares, zero class mobility, broken Washington, global anxiety, all mixed with the race hotsauce of rage, guns, and protecting the Poh-lice.

    …. and gets to do it with one arm holding the hot girl, flying the best jets, quaffing the most expensive stuff, and the other hand grasping the pistol that will shoot down anyone stopping America being Great Again.

    Cruz gets all that, and is ready for 2020.

    No, I don’t think Trump’ll win. But it will be close. He’ll lose mostly on the ground-and-pound than on the standup ie he’s left it too late to get up his vote-gathering infrastructure. But he’s a big lesson for the left: forget the facts and become the fictional star we want you to be.

    Ah-Rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrghhhhhhhhh
    Ah-Rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrghhhhhhhhh

    Ah-RRRRRRR!!!!

    • adam 5.1
      22 July 2016 at 1:48 pm

      Glad you noticed the nutter (drumpf) does not play the game like everyone else.

      He has the whole Republican machine to help him, with all those bodies on the ground Ad. Just to cause you nightmares – sorry dude.

      He has gone for the money with his V.P choice, and lets not even go to the place where by people on the right in the USA, hate Clinton.

      It’s theater, ratings, and a show. And it works best when it is all flash and no substance.

      So I’m sorry, I think the muppet will win.

      This is how empires fall – slowly, and with stupid out in front.

  6. Xanthe 6
    22 July 2016 at 9:23 am

    Anyone else feel the deep sense of unease about the police methods to “get their latest child killer”
    Deeply unethical,
    Unsafe conviction

    What does it say about our judiciary that they go along with this shit

    • Puckish Rogue 6.2
      22 July 2016 at 10:47 am

      They got the highest permission possible and no laws appear to have been broken so its all good, would you rather the child killer remain free?

      • joe90 6.2.1
        22 July 2016 at 10:54 am

        Apparently there’s no need to obtain a warrant so whose permission did they obtain?.

        • Puckish Rogue 6.2.1.1
          22 July 2016 at 11:42 am

          http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11678728

          • It must be authorised at the most senior levels within the police force and must only be used as “a last resort” when other investigative options have been exhausted.

          • joe90 6.2.1.1.1
            22 July 2016 at 12:10 pm

            • It must be authorised at the most senior levels within the police force and must only be used as “a last resort” when other investigative options have been exhausted.

            So, despite their inability to gather enough evidence to convict him you’re okay with police brass saying fuck it, this scrote is as guilty as sin so let’s bypass the judiciary, throw any ethics we have out the window and go get him?.

            • Puckish Rogue 6.2.1.1.1.1
              22 July 2016 at 12:25 pm

              There are times the police can only gather so much evidence and they need a confession, think the Kahui twins case, so they used methods that haven’t been found to be illegal, that have been scrutinized by legal experts and have found the person that killed the child

              So, in summary, yes

              • joe90 …
                22 July 2016 at 12:43 pm

                Legal experts ain’t the courts and a police force going about it’s business without judicial oversight is okay by you.

                What could possibly go wrong…
                /

                https://www.aidwyc.org/cases/historical/kyle-unger/

                • Puckish Rogue …
                  22 July 2016 at 1:12 pm

                  If the police are found to have broken any laws in this case then I’d expect them to be punished and because of the unusual circumstances in gaining the conviction I’m sure the case will be looked at

                  • joe90 …
                    22 July 2016 at 1:33 pm

                    If the police are found to have broken any laws in this case then I’d expect them to be punished

                    Detective Superintendent Rod Drew and Senior Sergeant Warren Olsson broke the law with impunity.

                    • Puckish Rogue …
                      22 July 2016 at 1:57 pm

                      So does that mean this case is unlawful?

                    • joe90 …
                      22 July 2016 at 2:17 pm

                      Precedent says unlawful or not, they’ll most likely be able to thumb their noses at the law.

                    • Puckish Rogue …
                      22 July 2016 at 2:57 pm

                      How about innocent until proven guilty or does that not apply to the police?

                    • joe90 …
                      22 July 2016 at 3:07 pm

                      Neither Drew nor Olsson were charged over the forging of a court officials signature so obviously some are above the law.

                  • Xanthe …
                    22 July 2016 at 3:52 pm

                    PR You seem to be saying that the police have no obligation to be ethical….. only lawful.. or do you conflate the two?
                    Do you think the process to gain the conviction we are discussing was ethical?
                    Do you perhaps think it was not ethical but somehow justified because a baby had died?

    • Muttonbird 6.3
      22 July 2016 at 11:22 am

      It’s weird they manufactured crime in order to get a confession. Seems a very elaborate and very expensive use of police time to me.

      • Puckish Rogue 6.3.1
        22 July 2016 at 11:45 am

        So you’d rather have a child murderer walking around free?

        • Muttonbird 6.3.1.1
          22 July 2016 at 11:51 am

          Of course not. This scheme seems overly elaborate and expensive and based upon an American crime show rather than sustainable policing methods. The conviction looks shaky too.

          No, I’d rather see the current government do something about the underlying causes of child abuse instead of paying lip-service to it. Under the current government New Zealand has climbed to the number one ranking for child abuse – not something to be proud of.

          This undercover operation is but an ambulance at the bottom of the cliff.

          • Puckish Rogue 6.3.1.1.1
            22 July 2016 at 11:58 am

            No, I’d rather see the current government do something about the underlying causes of child abuse instead of paying lip-service to it. Under the current government New Zealand has climbed to the number one ranking for child abuse – not something to be proud of

            – that’s all very well and good but it probably wouldn’t have stopped this guy and it certainly wouldn’t have gained a conviction

          • McFlock 6.3.1.1.2
            22 July 2016 at 12:26 pm

            why is the conviction shaky? The supreme court said it was ok.

            I’m not entirely happy with using it to just get a confession, but another guy done for it actually led the undercover cops to the body, so in that one I was happier.

            But confessions when combined with high-resource operations give the cops an incentive, even an unconscious one, to justify the resources they allocated. Leading questions, salted information, that sort of thing.

            • Muttonbird 6.3.1.1.2.1
              22 July 2016 at 1:48 pm

              why is the conviction shaky? The supreme court said it was ok.

              Through the High Court, Court of Appeal, and Supreme Court (the decision of which was split). Plenty of contention there.

              • McFlock …
                22 July 2016 at 4:05 pm

                still the final decision went to the prosecution in the SC.

                Sort of firms it up a bit.

    • Molly 6.4
      22 July 2016 at 12:01 pm

      Thanks for the heads up Xanthe.

      Yes, I do feel unease about the police methods as they have been reported in the article.

      (It is unlikely that the police will have a psychologist look into how much they need a confession as time goes by – given the energy and focus invested in obtaining one.)

      • Puckish Rogue 6.4.1
        22 July 2016 at 12:32 pm

        I’d feel more unease with the thought the murderer was walking around free

        • Muttonbird 6.4.1.1
          22 July 2016 at 12:39 pm

          He was convicted of manslaughter, btw.

          • Psycho Milt 6.4.1.1.1
            22 July 2016 at 12:59 pm

            The courts necessarily have a much higher threshold for what constitutes murder than personal opinion does. This guy’s a murderer no matter what he got convicted for.

            • marty mars 6.4.1.1.1.1
              22 July 2016 at 2:30 pm

              wtf – “This guy’s a murderer no matter what he got convicted for.” You are such a BADARSE – lol – what a noggin

              • Psycho Milt …
                22 July 2016 at 3:42 pm

                Why wtf? According to the courts, Peter Ellis is a child molester, but fucked if I’d ever call him one. Likewise, according to the courts this guy who shook a baby to death isn’t a murderer, but I’m happy to call him one.

          • Puckish Rogue 6.4.1.1.2
            22 July 2016 at 1:09 pm

            Oh well pardon me, I’m sure that’s a great comfort to the deceased or the deceased’s family

            • Muttonbird 6.4.1.1.2.1
              22 July 2016 at 1:15 pm

              *shrugs* Just pointing out the facts.

              On Psycho Milt’s position, John Banks is a crooked bastard no matter what he got convicted or not convicted for. Personal opinion, of course.

  7. save nz 7
    22 July 2016 at 9:43 am

    Is this true? Apparently at the same time as the US warship is here, we are having a weapons conference of 500 delegates at the Aotea Centre? Including Lockheed Martin, Serco etc…

    http://thedailyblog.co.nz/2016/07/22/america-sends-a-warship-while-trying-to-seize-our-economic-and-political-sovereignty/

  9. Morrissey 9
    22 July 2016 at 10:07 am

    Hapless Cleveland cops ordered to confiscate TENNIS BALLS and SLEEPING BAGS
    —but Trump’s violent, goonish supporters are allowed to openly carry assault rifles

    CLEVELAND—Welcome to Cleveland, where the Republican National Convention (RNC) is underway. The RNC is a highly scripted, elaborately staged and lavishly publicly funded private party. Here, credentialed Republican delegates, most of them party activists from around the country, circulate within a militarized perimeter of what authorities have designated a “national special security event.” As such, the U.S. Secret Service is handed complete control of an area, in this case downtown Cleveland. The area is ringed with a temporary but imposing black steel fence, patrolled by the full spectrum of law enforcement, from local police to federal SWAT teams. Yet because Ohio has extremely lenient gun laws, people can “open carry” here. And they do. Scores of Trump supporters have proudly shown up with their guns at their sides, including semi-automatic AR-15s, walking the downtown streets.

    It is not a total free-for-all, however. Many things are banned: tennis balls, sleeping bags, selfie sticks and canned goods. To highlight the absurdity of the situation, the women’s peace organization Code Pink staged a demonstration at the security checkpoint to enter the RNC. In their bags, the dozen or so pink-clad women carried 500 pink and green tennis balls with the phrase “Ban Guns, Not Balls” written on them. They began tossing them to each other.

    A line of Cleveland police officers quickly formed and tried to encircle the protest. They started to confiscate the tennis balls. There was confusion, as one officer asked a superior, “What do we do with the balls?” “Put them in your pocket,” came the exasperated reply. The police aggressively expanded their line, pushing observers, and us journalists, farther away. We managed to dodge them and got in close to ask Code Pink member Chelsea Byers what was going on: “We’re here saying that it’s ridiculous that the RNC has banned tennis balls, and yet they continue to let open carry happen in these streets. If they’re concerned about safety, they should be taking the guns off of these streets, not banning toys.” To reinforce the Cleveland police, a large contingent of Indiana State Police showed up, then riot police were deployed. Finally, a phalanx of police on horseback arrived. All this for about 15 women and one man from Code Pink and their 500 tennis balls.

    Read more…

    http://www.democracynow.org/2016/7/21/terror_tennis_balls_and_tamir_rice

  10. Draco T Bastard 10
    22 July 2016 at 10:10 am

    According to a just-released United Nations study, poorer workers and manual laborers are especially affected by heat stress. In developing countries, fewer working hours can translate into serious economic strain. In Southeast Asia, heat is already cutting work hours by 15 to 20 percent. By 2050, that number could be as high as 40 percent.

    “It’s a whole working month that would be lost because it’s so hot you can’t work,” the report’s coauthor Tord Kjellstrom told the Washington Post. If global warming continues at its current rate, extreme heat could cost global economies $2 trillion by 2030.

    Bold mine.

    So, not only do we have a huge cost incurred by climate change but we have to ask:
    How long before those in Southeast Asia decide to leave because the heat is, quite literally, killing them?
    When they leave, because they will, where are they going to go?

    • Rosie 10.1
      22 July 2016 at 12:17 pm

      I don’t know if they can leave. These manual outdoor workers live in appalling poverty. They could be left stuck, with no where to go.

      Meena Kandasamy’s book The Gypsy Goddess was about the Kilvenmani massacre in Tamil Nadu. It looked at the oppressive working conditions for rice field workers, the heat being part of it. The book covered a period ion the late 1960’s – India is only getting hotter. The fate of outdoor workers in hot and tropical climates now in into the future is surely dire.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meena_Kandasamy

  11. te reo putake 11
    22 July 2016 at 10:32 am

    Where getting a lot of first time callers on the RM post (mostly gloating righties, of course). This means that a lot of comments have to be manually released from the mod queue. Apologies to those who don’t see their comment instantly appear, but they will turn up eventually. And, remember, our service is still way better than your average Telco or power company.

  12. AmaKiwi 12
    22 July 2016 at 1:43 pm

    Media predicting the theme of Trump’s grand speech on Thursday will be law and order.

    The odds are 999 to 1 he won’t call for prosecuting police who murder unarmed Black men.

    • joe90 12.1
      22 July 2016 at 1:50 pm

      No doubt about it – he’ll toss a little raw meat to his people.

      .

      The Illinois Republican Party on Wednesday revoked credentials from one of its delegates to the Republican National Convention who made racially charged comments online and used the social media handle “whitepride,” The Chicago Tribune reported.

      Lori Gayne, a Trump delegate, posted on a photo of police officers to her Facebook on the opening day of the RNC, according to the report.

      “Our brave snipers just waiting for some “N—- to try something. Love them,” the caption read, according to the Chicago Sun-Times.

      http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/lori-gayne-removed-rnc-delegate-white-pride

  13. joe90 13
    22 July 2016 at 1:51 pm

    Gone.

    Roger Ailes has resigned from his role as Fox News chairman, effective immediately. https://t.co/bYxJ4VjP7J pic.twitter.com/Il6SenZrBA— ABC News (@ABC) July 21, 2016

    • Rodel 13.1
      22 July 2016 at 9:33 pm

      Joe90. That’s good news about Roger Ailes. I heard he got $50million severance pay.
      Makes me wonder about the rest of the leggy Fox presenters still there..and the private lives of the Hannitys, O’reillys, and the rest of the fair, balanced and unafraids.

      Watched O’reilly on you-tube having a tantrum some time ago exhibiting violent insanity. Unafraid? yes! but fair and balanced he was not. About as loony as Donald.
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IvEFeV92h6A
      God bless America.

      But don’t worry nice balanced Rupert Murdoch has taken over Fox…Younger women will be safe with him..

  14. Morrissey 14
    22 July 2016 at 1:58 pm

    “America’s Finest” strike again:
    This time they’ve bagged a therapist and an autistic man.

    http://www.vox.com/2016/7/21/12244938/north-miami-police-shooting-charles-kinsey-video

  15. Morrissey 15
    22 July 2016 at 2:06 pm

    FORGET TRUMP: PETER THIEL IS SO DANGEROUS
    AND FASCINATING YOU HAVE TO WATCH HIM TONIGHT
    by Sam Biddle, The Intercept, 22 July 2016

    TONIGHT, PETER THIEL, an openly gay immigrant hailing from San Francisco, will address the Republican National Convention in Cleveland. His speech will close out the coronation of Donald Trump as the nominee claof his party, which three days earlier finalized a platform affirming the definition of marriage as “between one man and one woman.”

    Thiel may seem an unlikely warm-up act for a raving nativist like Trump. But the pair are actually an impeccable ideological tag-team. In fact, Thiel outmatches Trump both in the preposterousness of his capitalistic ambition and in the sheer pathology of his political inconsistency.

    Like Trump’s, Thiel’s speech will be one of the few in Cleveland (or Philly, for that matter) worth viewing in full, if only because the libertarian billionaire is, even more so than the man he’s opening for, a bizarre and fascinating man—his support for Trump is just one more strange item on a long list. And, unlike those who have taken the stage before him, Thiel isn’t a retired general, washed-up actor, incendiary evangelical, or reality show star, but a complicated member of the Silicon Valley elite.

    Many Americans found Thiel the same way they found Donald Trump: on a screen, presented as something between caricature and real-world business figure. In The Social Network, Hollywood’s 2010 rendition of the Facebook creation myth, Thiel’s character appears briefly to write Mark Zuckerberg a $500,000 check and suggest that he utterly betray his best friend and co-founder, Eduardo Saverin — a fictionalized version of one of the greatest moments of treachery in modern business history. …

    Read more….
    https://theintercept.com/2016/07/21/forget-trump-peter-thiel-is-so-dangerous-and-fascinating-you-have-to-watch-him-tonight/

  16. Rosie 16
    22 July 2016 at 2:13 pm

    A witty and sharp poem. “The first time she saw a ciabatta”. A reflection on brexit from a Scottish perspective.

    http://bellacaledonia.org.uk/2016/07/14/the-first-time-she-saw-a-ciabatta/

  17. Morrissey 17
    22 July 2016 at 4:55 pm

    Two days ago, Jim Mora compared plagiarist Melania Trump to Johnny Cash.
    Now look who he compared her race-baiting, hate-spewing husband to this afternoon.
    The Panel, RNZ National, Friday 22 July 2016
    Jim Mora, Golnaz Bassam Tabar, Duane Major, Zara Potts

    “All right, we heard about the 180,000 illegal immigrants, but he also seemed to recast himself as the candidate of compassion. He was almost Gandhi-like….”

    —-Jim Mora, affecting his most deadly “serious” voice, 4:25 p.m.

    Again I ask: why is this dope still stinking up our airwaves?

    http://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-20072016/#comment-1206328

    • Morrissey 17.1
      22 July 2016 at 5:08 pm

      There was worse to come: even more dismal than Mora’s vapidity was Golnaz Bassam Tabar’s wandery and ill-informed chat about ISIS, in which she compared the U.S.-U.K.-Turkish-supported terror group to Hamas and Hezbollah.

      There have been hundreds—make that thousands—of brain-dead NewstalkZB-calibre statements made on The Panel over the last eleven years, but Bassam Tabar’s foolish little fugue is right up, or down, there with the worst kind of ignorance spouted on this horrible show by the likes of Stephen Franks, Denise L’Estrange-Corbet, Barry Corbett or Michelle Boag.

  18. Kevin 18
    22 July 2016 at 5:23 pm

    Why Corbyn Terrifies the Guardian

    An interesting article that looks a little deeper than what the title says.

    http://www.jonathan-cook.net/blog/2016-07-22/why-corbyn-so-terrifies-the-guardian/