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Open mike 23/10/2019

Written By: - Date published: 7:00 am, October 23rd, 2019 - 117 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

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117 comments on “Open mike 23/10/2019 ”

  1. Greywarshark

    You were interested in current news of Assange.

    News isn't great, for him, human rights, or journalism in general, but at least some Australian politicians are starting to stir

    Assange in court


    and 10 Aussie MPs raising their objections ….too little too late,… the guy is gone


    • ianmac 1.1

      A very nasty story of Assange's deterioration Francesca. The cause of his crash mentally and physically may never know only conjectured. A blow to democracy.

    • xanthe 1.2

      A very interesting phenomenon. There is now a huge industry of independent "truth tellers/independent journalists" who endlessly recycle social media posts and write "exposes" recycling same while at the same time touting for donations to support their noble struggle often with large "click farms" of associated url's and social media accounts. The one truth about these operators is that their business plan depends on Assanges continued incarceration. They contribute nothing and their wall of white noise and misdirection impedes Assange in his struggle

      • greywarshark 1.2.1

        I didn't realise that xanthe but I shouldn't be surprised. Everybody can present themselves as a journalist these days it seems. It is bad enough with people in the Fairfax papers with big Bylines giving Opinions and not even a sentence of background information on them. So nothing to advise you as to why they should lay their opinions on you and what line of career, education, culture or experience has built their perceptions and facts they have chosen to accept.

    • Thanks francesca – I feel guilty letting his welfare drop out of sight. So have to remember to keep thinking of him. At present I seems to be like a rabbit in the headlights watching Boorish and his Rubber Band play their discordant music in the UK. Need a good dose of Spitting Images I think to illustrate the Farrago of it all.

  2. marty mars 2

    Yes good call – a childrens author just has a view like anyone else and shouldn't have a platform imo especially when the opinion is yucky,

    A popular children's author has been asked not to speak at a retreat for Catholic school principals in Central Otago, after defending a disgraced bishop's sexual relationship with a young woman.

    Joy Cowley hit the headlines last week, after writing a column in defence of former Catholic Bishop of Palmerston North, Charles Drennan, who resigned earlier this month after admitting a sexual relationship with a young woman.

    …Last week, in an RNZ interview, she went further, saying the sexual relationship between an older bishop and a young woman – even if aged in her late teens – was not an abuse of power.

    The relationship would also help ''make him a much better bishop'', she told RNZ.

    ''He would know how to work with women, wouldn't he? As a man, he wouldn't be just hopping on one foot.''


  3. Just been, for my sins, listening to Soimun on RNZ – and the lack of logic he displays is quite exceptional.

    In his monotone monologue he accused Andrew Little of only wanting to make NZers half safe by not extending the supervision period and not lowering the age to 14 years.

    But does this mean National won't support the bill? And if that's the case, will NZ be not at all safe?

    I hope Andrew calls his bluff on this and makes National support the bill, or risk being accused to endangering all NZers. Surely, "the reality is" half safe is better than no safe?

  4. Agora 4

    NASA’s Curiosity Rover finds an ancient oasis on Mars

  5. Sabine 5

    and now for something nice

    accousting version of 'i feel for you' from Prince (as a twenty year old) Chaka Khan made it a hit in the early 80s.

    time flies.


    • I feel love 5.1

      The first couple Prince albums are stunning, I love later Prince but the early albums are so different and interesting, I Feel For You is on his 2nd album but the acoustic version is awesome! Thanks for sharing.

  6. marty mars 6

    swamp's too nice for this toxic creature

    The former US homeland security secretary, Kirstjen Nielsen, repeatedly defended her decision to separate thousands of children from their parents at the southern border, in her first public interview since she resigned in April.

    At Fortune magazine’s Most Powerful Woman summit in Washington DC on Tuesday, the PBS NewsHour correspondent Amna Nawaz asked Nielsen four times if she regretted signing off on the family separation policy, before Nielsen responded: “I don’t regret enforcing the law.


  7. The Chairman 7


    Back in Feb 2017, KiwiSaver architect Sir Michael Cullen joined the board of variable annuity company Retirement Income Group. Former retirement commissioner Diana Crossan is also on the board.

    Now, interim Retirement Commissioner Peter Cordzt is taking public submissions on an annuity scheme (called KiwiSpend) before he decides which recommendations will make it into his review of retirement incomes.

    The final report will be presented to Government in December.

    It will be interesting to see what comes of this.

    Submissions are open until October 31.

    [Again, you did not provide a link so that readers could follow-up (e.g. to make a submission) and gain more insight into the context/background. To label it “interesting” is pretty vanilla (beige?) too IMO and you might as well have asked “should we be concerned?” Please provide a link – Incognito]

  8. marty mars 8

    Save our waterways – make a submission

    Action for healthy waterways – consultation

    Have your say

    The Government is asking New Zealanders for their views on proposals to stop freshwater health getting worse and to restore waterways to a healthy state in a generation. We have prepared a discussion document setting out the proposals, which is available on our website. We recommend you refer to the discussion document when completing your submission.

    We have engaged with a wide range of stakeholders to develop the proposals and are keen to hear your views on them.

    We have grouped the questions from the discussion document by theme, but if you want to answer a specific question, please note the question number from the discussion document in your submission. You do not need to answer all of the questions. Notes boxes are provided under each question for your comments. Supporting documents may also be attached at the end of the form.


  9. indiana 9

    …have to agree Russel Norman's tweet puts him to the class of being an A-Grade dork…


    • ScottGN 9.1

      I quite liked that tweet. It was exactly what I was thinking…

      • Naki man 9.1.1

        Not something i would admit to Scott.

        Noddy Norman's tweet make him look like nasty bitter scumbag,

        • ScottGN

          Only if you’ve succumbed to the manufactured outrage from the usual suspects. Otherwise it’s just the usual to-and-fro in the Twittersphere.

      • Anne 9.1.2

        It was exactly what I was thinking…

        Me too ScottGN.

        Just because Russell Norman told the truth doesn't mean either he – and those of us who agree with him – have no sympathy for those directly affected like the inner city dwellers who have had 24 hrs of toxic smoke to contend with.

        You rwnjs are an incredibly stupid lot sometimes.

    • Drowsy M. Kram 9.2

      How quickly, and conveniently 'they' forget.

      There was much hoopla and some political concessions made at the time – maybe the government of the day aimed to make political capital out of it. ‘Bum deal’? Scam? A bit of both? Will taxpayers ever get will get the full story?

      "PM Key defends govt support for Sky City convention centre, says can't expect shareholders to invest for 6 years without certainty" [June 2011]

      "UPDATED: Key refuses to rule out convention centre taxpayer top-up The government is "spinning faster than a roulette wheel", says Taxpayers' Union." [Feb 2015]

      Don't know the real extent of public or private costs, although some major private companies got burned, 'going forward'. There was a remarkable dearth of good news stories about the project in 2016/17 – funny that.

      "In 2015, Skycity announced Fletcher Construction would be building the new international convention centre in Auckland. Nobody then suspected it would lead to over $400m of losses to Fletcher Building."


      A case of 'Big Smoke' and mirrors? Better that than 'all up in smoke', which has (alas) now eventuated.

      "SkyCity to remove aluminium cladding from International Convention Centre"


      • tc 9.2.1

        It's a case of a global gaming organisation up against the kids running Fletchers currently who swallowed nationals dead rat convention centre.

        It's one of a few projects the kids thought they knew better about that’s gnawing away

    • Sabine 9.3

      selective outrage.

      after all they want plausible deniability when the firefighters/first responders come to ACC with health issues caused by the job. Toxic fires are quite common, and the guys putting them out are more often then not unpaid volunteers.

      so yeah, how dare he talk about the toxic fumes, he should thank the fire fighters for their service instead! It is simply not polite from him to point out all the toxic smoke, debris and waste water. 🙂

  10. Ad 10

    Interesting to see that the owners of Tiwai Point Aluminium have requested talks with the government.

    As a result Meridian dropped 7.75% in a morning's market trade, and others like Mercury also fell down a chunk as well.

    I sure feel for the people of Southland who are having to go through this again.

    But it is surely one of the greatest gifts that Minister Wood could have dropped on her, if she wanted to require Meridian to divert that power supply from Tiwai Point to the national grid.

    That would be a considerable shift in our energy carbon emissions, and hopefully put a really hard floor under our energy price with that much constant supply on tap.

    • Andre 10.1

      I sure feel for the people of Southland who are having to go through this again.

      Until Tiwai Point is shut down, they will forever be pawns in Rio Tinto's game of extorting the cushiest deal they can out of the government of the day. This government needs to develop a hostage rescue plan, and come up with alternatives for those workers.

      If it isn't already in Rio Tinto's interest to move out of Southland, it will be very soon. The estimates I've seen for what Rio Tinto pays for electricity in NZ are around 6 cents/kWhr (vs around 25 cents/kWhr average for residential consumers). Plus the alumina has to be shipped here, then the refined aluminium shipped elsewhere. But new solar power projects are being built to supply electricity at under US 3 cents/kWhr, and the Weipa bauxite mine is quite handy to one of the best solar resources in the world.

      • Dukeofurl 10.1.1

        "But new solar power projects are being built to supply electricity at under US 3 cents/kWhr"

        No solar power plant does that…. and the other problem for a smelter which runs day and night is what ?

        The UK solar power stations have a government guarantee of minimum price ( called a Contract for Difference CFD) well above what yo mention

        • McFlock

          Solar during the day, hydro at night.

        • Andre

          Portugal just contracted for 14.76 euro per MWhr, or 1.476 euro cents per kWhr


          Concentrating solar power schemes which can keep supplying into the night aren't quite that low yet, but they're not that far off. Here's a scheme from 2017 in Australia contracting to supply for 78 dingodollars/MWhr.


          Or the new scheme at Ouarzazate in Morocco is around the same price.


          The idea that capital equipment must be kept running 24/7 is a managerialist axiom, but it's not necessarily the lowest cost way to produce a product.

          In the case of aluminium smelting after there's a reasonable waste disposal fee placed on carbon emissions, it may turn out most cost effective to just smelt during the day using extremely cheap PV electricity and just do the minimum to keep them hot and ready to go overnight. Or it may be cheaper to pay a bit more on the electricity side for concentrating solar with a shitload of storage. Or something else. Whatever the outcome may be, that should be Rio Tinto's problem, not ours.

          But what's going to be really stupid for New Zealand is to continue paying a premium for fossil generated electricity for the rest of the country while continuing to give Rio Tinto extremely cheap clean hydro electricity.

          • Dukeofurl

            "Capital equipment must be kept running 24/7 is a managerialist axiom, but it's not necessarily the lowest cost way to produce a product.

            Its a smelter, the Al pot lines will solidify. Plenty of production processes are continuous for technical reasons and off peak power is cheaper for the very big customers.

            Theres 2 reasons the Smelter power is cheap .

            1) Only a short distance from Manapouri to Bluff , so Transpower lines charges are low

            2) They are a heavy bulk power under contract, not a flick the switch user like a home or small to medium business. They can drop power for short periods to help with small spikes in demand or sudden system failures.

            Portugal has always subsidized its Solar power. The latest one isnt publicly subsidized ( a first) but the price is fixed and confidential. Public outcry over the existing subsidies. of course Portugal can get Power from Spain as well. Good luck with NZ having an interconnector with another Grid – although the North And South islands are run like that with the Cook St cable connecting Benmore and Haywards in Upper Hutt

            Solar power has many issues, the biggest is the sun doesnt shine when the morning and evening peaks occur. The second is the power production isnt synchronous at 50Hz, so some sort of rotating generator is needed to stabilise the frequency. In NZ we have hydro power stations around the country to do that , otherwise its thermal , either coal or gas.

            • Andre

              Yes a smelting pot needs to be kept hot so it doesn't solidify, but that doesn't mean it needs to be running at full production. It just needs to be kept hot. Keeping it hot requires a lot less power if you aren't dumping cold alumina in the top and tapping molten aluminium out the bottom.

              There's a third reason Rio Tinto gets it cheap, they successfully apply pressure on the government using Southland employment as hostages for leverage.

              If that continuous 600ish MW continuous draw from Tiwai Point went away, I'm sure the grid and generators would work out how to manage the extra available power. Y'know, it could supply base load for the rest of the country that is currently coming from sources that can quite happily operate in a variable mode. Meridian might even find they get more for it by selling most of it at higher variable rates rather than just a continuous low rate.

              Aluminium smelting pots don't run on 50Hz AC, they're only roughly 2V DC. It is possible to convert AC to DC and back again – the Cook Strait cables are DC.

              You sure that Portugal price is subsidised? It's a couple of years on from the unsubsidised US 1.79 cents/kWhr in Saudi in 2017, and PV prices have fallen significantly from 2017 to now.


              • Dukeofurl

                So much wrong with what you are saying. You clearly have half a clue about a lot of things.

                The pot lines are DC but the power generated at Manapouri which is fed to the Grid is AC at 50hz. Its a single grid , that the smelter changes the power for its purposes doesnt matter for the grid.

                Cheapest power production is from large load thermal stations, mainly coal and gas, then come hydro. They can provide power on demand day or night. Then comes wind which is intermittant and last comes solar.

                Carbon taxes deliberately push up the cost of creating thermal power, but its still the cheapest because of scale and it can be used as a base load

    • Pat 10.2

      There would be many positives if the corporate blackmail ceased…..unless you live in Invercargill where Tiwai smelter employs around 10 % of the workforce.

      Another political difficulty this government could do without at this time

    • weka 10.3

      "I sure feel for the people of Southland who are having to go through this again."

      maybe it's time that NZ started considering what sustainability is, and applying that to economics. Not the co-opted meaning of the word, but the regenerative, nature-based meaning, where something is able to be sustained over long periods of time without causing damage or stealing rersources from other communities. This is going to be an ongoing issue with climate transition, may as well get used to it now. When dairy and tourism contract, how will Southland and NZ make a living?

      "That would be a considerable shift in our energy carbon emissions, and hopefully put a really hard floor under our energy price with that much constant supply on tap."

      Likewise, might be a good time to learn about the limits of nature and make good use of the freed up resource for transition and essential goods and services rather than wasting it.

      • The Al1en 10.3.1

        Agreed. The time of climate change is upon us, and one day, petrol station staff are gonna be out of jobs, like most miners will be and combustion engine mechanics. Sometime the bullet has to be bitten, and what's needed is not outrage, but a plan to move employees into sustainable jobs outside the norm.

        As a petty political aside, Surely Invercargil is a true blue region, so no loss to the government should a hard decision needs to be made?

        • Pat

          "As a petty political aside, Surely Invercargil is a true blue region, so no loss to the government should a hard decision needs to be made?"

          You may wish to consider we have MMP now and there remain considerable party votes on offer regardless of the colour of the electorate MP


        • weka

          Invercargill has had Labour and National MPs. They consistently vote in Shadbolt for Mayor, fwiw.

          But yeah, just transition can be coupled with designing sustainable systems and that needs to include security around making a living, and local economies. The old rhetoric of jobs vs environment needs to be changed to seeing jobs as a benefit of the environment.

        • Sabine

          As a petty political aside, Surely Invercargil is a true blue region, so no loss to the government should a hard decision needs to be made?

          so they don't deserve jobs and care? they don't deserve true representation from their elected government?

          this is snark?

          • The Al1en

            and what's needed is not outrage, but a plan to move employees into sustainable jobs outside the norm.

            People will lose jobs because of dealing to global warming. It's a fact.

            • Sabine

              this is not what your statement was about.

              i asked you about this – the rest of your comment i had no issue with,

              As a petty political aside, Surely Invercargil is a true blue region, so no loss to the government should a hard decision needs to be made?

              Care to elaborate on 'true blue region, so no loss"? is loss now measured by party affiliation – or what would 'blue region' mean?

              • The Al1en

                It's exactly as I wrote – If the hard decision is to be taken, then in a tory area, the hit to the government will be minimal, so less of a barrier to making the call. That doesn't mean those people are disposable or collateral damage, to me or the government, which is why twice I've posted about replacement sustainable jobs, but these type of job cuts will be more common in the future as we combat cutting emissions to save the planet.

                I don't see that as a big issue in the big scheme of things.

  11. marty mars 11

    I am worried for the people inhaling the smoke in Auckland. I wonder where all the drainage goes – into the normal system? Into a special system? Pollution? I spose the toxic firefighting foam is no longer used which is good. Anyway I hope everyone and the environment stays safe.

    • AB 11.1

      I expect the water hosed on the fire ends up in the harbour – a place where in a month's time or so I expect to be catching dinner occasionally. Interesting that something that makes Auckland a brilliant place (catching fish within sight of downtown) could theoretically be jeopardised by something that makes it a sh*thole (Skycity and all its doings).

      Which leads to a larger question – why is a trashy private fiefdom like Skycity allowed any influence over our cityscape, or our lives in general?

  12. Blazer 12

    ain't this the truth…


    But Massey University lecturer Ralph Bathurst disagreed.

    "The thing that is surprising about the David Hisco case is that it is unsurprising. We as citizens should be outraged by CEOs, and board members receiving astronomical salaries and benefits under the pretence that they are talented. The primary talent that these senior so-called business 'leaders' have in common is that they can fool us into believing that they are talented," he said.-Stuff.

    • Sacha 12.1

      Please add the link when you quote something. Here's one for free: https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/116782789/hisco-wants-privacy-but-what-could-he-do-next

      • Incognito 12.1.1


      • Blazer 12.1.2

        Your sarcasm is unnecessary.I quoted the part I wanted to and attributed it to Stuff.

        [Little things like adding links to quoted text take a few seconds and do lift the quality of discourse. If everybody do their bid we will all benefit – this is not sarcasm but a fact. In addition, it is about appropriate attribution of the originator of the quoted text or info – Incognito]

        • Incognito

          See my Moderation note @ 2:11 PM.

        • Blazer

          'university lecture Ralph Bathurst'…'Here's one for free'…is definitely sarcasm.

          Stop being a prick.And your opinion is just that=not fact at all.

          [Please refrain from making personal insults and please provide links in future, thanks – Incognito]

          • Incognito

            See my Moderation note @ 2:43 PM.

            • veutoviper

              Do each of the following comments here on Open Mike today also fall into the same category as those of The Chairman and Blazer and require links to be provided to the statements made:

              1. Tony V @ 3 re what Simon Bridges said on RNZ this morning
              2. Ad @10 re the owners of Tiwai Point Aluminium requesting talks with the government
              3. The Al1en @ 13 claiming that Jono and Ben have fled Mediaworks for TVNZ
              4. Newsense @ 15 re political party support for light rail.
              • The Al1en

                Not speaking for Incognito but the mod note said if you quote, provide a link. You'll note in my post I didn't quote, just made an observation. Though I'm happy to provide a link, if required, it'll have to be when I get home from work and can stop using this shitty tablet.

              • Incognito

                Nothing is B&W and set in stone but my personal take is:

                1. Yes, a link would have been helpful here too; it makes a specific reference to a broadcast.
                2. Idem.
                3. No, not really; this comment is almost completely a statement of personal opinion and doesn’t seem to depend/rely much on actual facts.
                4. A supporting link(s) would have been helpful here.


    • Jimmy 12.2

      Theo Spierings springs to mind. Obscene salary package (and bonus) NOT based on performance. I would have no problem if he was earning say, $3 million a year and the company was performing.

    • Andre 12.3

      Oddly enough, it seems there is indeed a relationship between CEO pay and company performance: they're inversely correlated.


  13. Those seriously unfunny or unoriginal pillocks Jono and Ben have fled the sinking ship that is mediaworks and got a gig at tvnz. Whilst not being the absolute worst examples of what passes for kiwi man's humour, though it's close, it still won't make them any less Rattus rattus.

    Much hope for Mark Richardson than he deserves, then, if that’s the level they’re prepared to stoop to at the national broadcaster.

    • McFlock 13.1

      What's wrong with J&B? They're not my cup of tea, but they're not tory chatbots like hosking or richardson AFAIK

    • Jimmy 13.2

      I guess its a matter of opinion, I don't mind them but I just do not find their off sider Guy Williams funny at all.

      • The Al1en 13.2.1

        Ill admit to switching channels when any of them are on TV, I dislike the act so much, but of course it's each to their own and all that.

        I have recently been re watching The thick of it, about a spin doctor for the last labour gov, starring the better jock doctor who, so my taste in comedy is probably a bit different to b&j's world view.

    • tc 13.3

      Here we go with jobs for the Boyz n girlz. Tvnz needs a clear out from the top down.

      Unfunny and unoriginal….how about something new and interesting.

  14. McFlock 14

    I love the concern tories have for charity.

    So ACT's David Seymour signed a MAGA hat to be auctioned, originally for a donation to the kidsline charity. The MAGA hat was made by a right wing nutter.

    Seymour told Newsroom that he worried the auction would politicise the charity, which he supports as a local MP, and asked Allen to change the recipient of the funds to ACT.

    Yup, you read that "right": Seymour was so concerned for the reputation of the charity that he bravely suggested that his organisation should bear the brunt of the donation. Such a fine humanitarian lol

  15. newsense 15

    Surely the minister for wasting time and burning political capital is on thin ice?

    Before the election there was two party consensus on light rail, and Labour was promising 2 lines, plus high speed rail Auckland to Tauranga in 9 years.

    Now we are down to the Nats and NZ First not supporting light rail and there has been sod all progress of any kind.

    If this was encouraged because a PPP looks better…grr

    • ScottGN 15.1

      When you say 2 party consensus do you mean Labour and Greens? Cos the National Party hasn’t ever supported light rail. Just like they didn’t support the Northern Busway when Clark announced that or the CRL until Key gave in on that or the Waterview tunnel or had the commonsense to build the northwestern busway infrastructure while they were widening that motorway.

  16. joe90 16

    tl;dr 'Murica's been as racist AF forever.

    Racial terrorism is actually normal in American history but I believe we talk about in the wrong way. These are not isolated incidents , nor are they rare.

    This is the story of how a national campaign by whites terrorists overthrew the US government

    A few weeks ago, Donald Trump tweeted that there would be a coup if he was ousted from the presidency and media outlets portrayed him as crazy. It it is NOT crazy to think that a race war is possible.

    It has happened FOUR TIMES in history.


  17. Graeme 17

    A good day for the Otago region with Marion Hobbs elected as chairman of Otago Regional Council, with Michael Laws as deputy.


    The Council has a huge job ahead of it sorting out the demise of the old mining water rights, water quality issues that are going to hit like a sledge hammer when the dairy waste reaches ground water and streams in Central, public transport needs throughout the region and public dis-engagement with a council that seemed only interested in building a Dunedin centric empire.

    Get to work people.

  18. Rosemary McDonald 18

    Jesse Mulligan (afternoons on Natrad) had former Herald columnist Rachel Stewart as a guest today. Stewart shared her favourite music, books and movie….and for at least a short while created an oasis of quality listening in this usually bland timeslot.

    Sorry, can't do the link thing from my phone….but this is well worth a listen.

  19. https://www.rnz.co.nz/programmes/the-detail/story/2018717779/nz-s-low-unemployment-rate-is-hiding-huge-inequity

    Social Development minister Carmel Sepuloni says the issue of disabled unemployment has been overlooked for too long.

    “It’s our responsibility to ensure that we are breaking down the barriers and providing opportunities to work,” she says.

    Issues range from mental health issues, to sight or hearing impairments, intellectual disabilities and autism.

    It’s also not a stagnant group – people are going off and on the benefit, many taking up employment for a short time. Sepuloni says 74 percent of them do want to work.

    “We want them to thrive, and they want to thrive,” she says. (How can people believe this sort of bumf.)

    It's a mirage. How many people who are employed are getting a decent wage so that they can do sufficient hours during the hours of daylight to fulfil their roles and lives as advanced human beings? People are sick, they are stressed, and the jobs that are available largely depend on basic neds , providing health, or catering for tourists who need to be from overseas, or are old age pensioners. Too many young and; middle aged people are making do on a knife-edge, very uncomfortably. Thriving? Even our bacteria can't thrive and people need faecal inputs; there is a fog of stats around employment.

    What we need is work along demography strata age=group lines – and show about five different measures per 100,000 like full-time in normal working periods of a 5 day weeks b 6day weeks c revolving flexible weeks where the hours are tacked in here and there and no guaranteeed 2 day break.

    Etc – Possibly not drawn up by the OECD because they make up the stats so countries can lie to their populations.

    • Descendant Of Smith 20.1

      The public service used to pick up many of those with disabilities as employees. The profit imperative of business means the private sector will never create sufficient employment for this group.

      Same with young school leavers.

      She should put her money where her mouth is and fund the public service to do this on top of their existing funding – ring fenced so the funding doesn't get siphoned off elsewhere.

      Busy telling private sector employers to do this when she needs to look closer to home.

      In my view the public service should look like the local communities they serve.

      • greywarshark 20.1.1

        Agreed. I was amazed to listen to the very fluent Sepuloni go on and on in such a well-modulated voice, like she has been programmed. These tertiary institutions really fill you up with rhetoric and on just a tiny reservoir of energy, the information can go for hours. Turned her off after a short while.

        There may be good reason for a disabled person to go and do a wage job, or not. They might want one and get a real burst of determination to achieve something that takes them to the peak of their own Mt Aoraki (analogy). I heard nothing said about setting up opportunity groups to do volunteer work, and class that as alternative employment so it is listed in separate statistics from the usual employment figures.

        The relish that they announce how good it is for everyone to be working, ie in a paid job, is an example of saturation programming. It has been picked up from somebody's paper/s as reliable and honourable as the material on anti-vaxxers. I am all for people contributing to society, and I mean all, evem just coaching one person in reading, teaching music, making scones, permaculture, learning extra skills even the best way to use garden tools (as done in big hardware shops) etc.

        Have joint classes for mothers with young children, encourage the availability of jobs during school hours. One thing that I think I did hear this morning was that mothers were encouraged to share a job, so the other could cover with child care, or when there is sickness. If I heard right that was an innovative step for a start.

  20. A 21

    Accounting and Law are similar fields to my mind. At least it is an overseas example, and yes it did happen recently


    Per Peck, some of the more bizarre practices of the EY [Ernest & Young] Power-Presence-Purpose training (as it was called) included:

    – Women were encouraged to "signal fitness and wellness" by getting manicures and wearing flattering clothing – yet were told not to "flaunt their body."

    – Attendees had to rate how "masculine" or "feminine" they were before the training. Masculine adjectives included "ambitious" and "has leadership abilities"; feminine adjectives included "shy" and "childlike."

    – Women were told to sit cross-legged and not to make face-to-face contact with men at work.

    – The presenter claimed women had smaller brains than men, a former EY executive director who wished to remain anonymous told HuffPost. She added that the presentation said women absorbed information "like pancakes," making it hard for them to focus.

    The presentation also had a breakdown describing differences between men's and women's speaking styles, saying women ramble and "miss the point" when they communicate and "think men hog air time."

  21. Well it’s this time of the year I start look for books to read or reference books for my 1/700 model ships that I build during the summer period (the Northern Australian Wet Season) while listening to the summer of cricket on ABC radio except for the Boxing Day Test as I will be there in person with the old man over from NZ.

    Anyway I find this new book on poor old Neville Chamberlain while looking for a book on the WW2 Illustrious Class Carriers line drawings and camouflage markings. This book looks like it could be a good read, for example he has a butterfly named after him, enjoyed bird watching and was a bit of a greenie/ naturalist among other things. Model ship building does leads me down to some interesting paths like the why, who, where, when and how these ships came to be built.


    Plus a couple of books from the New Zealand Rail Society on the rebuilding the SIMT Line after the Kaikoura earthquake and one on the Hillside workshops, where I drank a few ales with some of the old boys in the pubs around Hillside workshops and it was also close to KAH Barracks during the 90’s.

    • halfcrown 22.1

      Nice one Ex Kiwi I have noted those for future reading. As an ex-engineer at one stage involved in the Aircraft Industry, well, that is when Britain had an aircraft industry before it was destroyed by inept politicians and management. I can highly recommend the following books "Empire of the Clouds" by James Hamilton-Paterson about the demise of the British Aircraft industry, EXACTLY by Simon Winchesterly, how precision engineering made the modern world. Great stories from automating the pulley block making for Nelson's navy to why that RR Engine blew apart on that Qantas flight. and lastly, a book I am reading now which gives great insight into the development of the U2 and stealth aircraft by Lockheeds highly secretive department called Skunk Works, written by the CEO Ben R Rich and Leo Jonos. Great insights into brilliant engineers and in the book Empire of the Clouds cretinous fuckwit politicians who should have been put down at birth

      • Dukeofurl 22.1.1

        Britain was spending 10% of its government budget on Defence in the middle 50s, plus paying for development of the civil aviation industry, which largely ended with the most expensive of all – Concorde

        Thats what the cuts made by successive governments from Conservatives in late 50s to labour in mid 60s and later was all about reducing

        • halfcrown

          “Thats what the cuts made by successive governments from Conservatives in late 50s to labour in mid 60s and later was all about reducing “

          We all know that, but they didn't save or reduce on this little exercise did they, fact it cost the UK dearly in more ways than one. This is just one example of many, I could mention like Sandys and his fetish for missiles and how much that cost the taxpayer and the UK aircraft industry. Also, like Cleese, I won't mention the war or the Miles 52 project, a complete irreparable incompetent criminal stuff up by politicians who did not have a clue how to open a bottle of milk let alone minister an aircraft industry.

          From the book Empire of the Clouds

          “Thus ended TSR.2 and with it all hopes that Briton could remain in the major league of aircraft manufacturing countries. 195 million in development costs were written off. The immediate effect on BAC and particularly on English Electric's Warton workforce was devasting, with large numbers of redundancies and general demoralisation that hit the RAF and spread throughout the industry. For TSR,2 was not the only project prat (my words) Healey had cancelled that fateful day. With it went Fairey's project Rotodyne feeder helicopter for ferrying passengers from airports to city centres(21 Million written off); Hawkers P.1154 projected supersonic version of what was to be the Harrier verticle take-off fighter (my words again something the Yanks have just managed to achieve in the last decade at enormous costs) another 21 million; and the Hawkers Siddeley/Armstrong Whitworth 681 military freighter much the same cost (my words again, would have made the Hercules look pathetic) There was widespread disbelief at both the policy and the crassness with which it was implemented, but this quickly turned to real anger when the full irony was revealed: that the 150 F-111's ordered for the RAF because they would have been so much cheaper than 150 TSR.2's turned out – when the equivalent F-111s were delivered to the Australian Airforce – to be even MORE expensive because their recurrent bugs and teething problems ( my opinion, another heap of American shit something Australia found out). “ Eventually the UK order for the F-111's was cancelled in 1968 at a cost of 46.4 million.”

          Great "reducing" there aye mate, it certainly “reduced” the British Aircraft Industry

          • Exkiwiforces

            The TSR.2 is one of my favourite planes of the 50-60's along the Avro Canada's CF-105. The TSR.2 shit fight is something I still to this day can't get my head around as it was basically an EE design Aircraft, but the lead builder was Vickers out of Weybridge which had no SME on building Supersonic Military aircraft, but EE had all the knowledge etc from the Lighting, long a enough runway etc and other research design at Warton was made the a secondary partner. Vickers only post war military AC was Valiant Bomber and had been more focus on Civil AC.

            Then we have Avro Canada's and the stuff that was coming out of the Company was leading edge stuff like its Avro Jetliner which then follow CF100 and lastly the doomed CF-105. Just reading Randall Whitcomb books on Avro Canada is just mind blowing

            As you said the Miles 52 project was an opportunely lost and having read Winkle Brown's book, does lead me to think they would've beat the Yanks by far margin and, again the Vickers with Barnes Wills got into the ear of the then Labour Government to say its rockets while alot safer and cheaper, a maned flight.

            The Fairey's Rotodyne was another excellent design, but again it was way a head of its time and a lot less complex than the US Osprey that flies over my house during the dry season when the Yanks are in town.

            The Joint British/ Australian Rocket programme is another subject, i still can't really get my head a round either, when one considers that the UK/ Aus were the third nation to put up a satellite and then pull the plug on it as some muppet called Roy Jenkins why do we need satellites and what's there use? All the work of the Black Arrow, Black Prince, Black Knight and Blue Streak along with Saro and co kicked into the scrap yard.

            The Civil Aircraft was no better either the V1000/ VC7 would've been the first widebody aircraft in world and would've been built in the 50's and then later the VC10 which if had been built to its original design spec's without BOAC sticking in fingers in pie would've been another world beating widebody. Then we have the sorry episode of DH's lovely Trident Tri Jet and again if it had been built to it original design without BEA sticking its fingers in the pie, it would beating the Boeing 727 hands down.

            The way Handley Page was treated during the 60's by then Labour Government is be on contempt and quite frankly fucking disgusting. It had a couple of good aircraft coming online, Victor Bomber upgrades would've been world class and it research dept at the time looking into carbon fibre/ composite materials back in the late 50's/ 60's before they became the rage in 90's.

            Boulton & Paul was mucking around with Radar Absorbent Material until it was caned in the 60's and today its research files are still class as for UK Eyes only. Just think if the B&P RAM was applied to the Vulcan which already had a very small radar cross section or the Blackburn Buccaneer (One blight spot among the chaos of the 60's and should've sold more if wasn't for the BS from the RAF)?

            The list is endless IRT to the UK Labour Government of the 60's, but don't get me started on the post war Churchill/ Eden Government.

            Then lastly the High Speed Train is a What if or could've been? which was in the in end scaled right back. And the same could be said of the Nimrod MR4 and there is some interesting chat over at the http://www.secretprojects.uk.com on the balls up by Big And Expensed and co.

            • Dukeofurl

              The answer is simple the UK couldnt afford all this stuff and the over sized military forces that went with it. Even by this stage the US was winding back some of its development projects as too expensive. Was all the best decisions made to keep the best projects ? No but hindsight is a great thing they didnt have back then.

              Rather than reading fanboys stories of how great these planes were – they were generally shocking management and old and inefficent production plants and very long development times. Even some missile projects were cancelled.

              Tony Buttler has done some good recent reserach on the original papers covering aircraft and engines from that era ( 1957) showing how many competing and likely outdated by the time they were ready.

              Check out other defence cuts in Army and navy forces and programs at the time


              'There was to be a reduction in the number of regular infantry battalions from 64 to 49 "

              'The British Army was to be reduced in size and reorganised to reflect the ending of National Service and the change to a voluntary army, and to "keep the Army abreast of changing circumstances, policies, weapons and techniques of war". 51 major units and a large number of smaller ones were to be disbanded or amalgamated,"

              • Exkiwiforces

                I fully agree with what you are saying, but my issue is that TSR2 should've continue even just purely as research Aircraft, instead of backing Concorde when the TSR2 got canned and even back then there were doubts about Concorde even being a success. Especially what was on the drawing broads at Hatfield (DH125 and the DH148) and coming of Woodford (Arvo) two wide body Airliners which become the A300 &310, the FTA (Future Transport Airlifter) also known by the Woodford crew as FAT's which became the bases for the A400 and the replacement of the Avro 748 (the Mount Cook AC and the RNZAF Andover) or ATP. Where the then Labour Government should've supported as a backstop to Concorde and the TSR2.

                But if you ask anybody around Preston today about the TSR2? the punters would say we were stab in the back Labour as they said they would never cancel TSR2 as the now infamous Labour Party leaflet issued in the Preston South constituency before the 64 General Election say's:

                Harold Wilson Tells TSR2 workers "Your Jobs are Guaranteed Under Labour" etc etc.

                Ref: Pg 268 TSR2 Britain's Lost Bomber by Damien Burke

                There is a book on my wishlist on Frogpond on the Brit Army from 45- 1971, but it will cost a bomb to get around the $150 mark.

                And people wonder why the Working class/ Working poor in the Mildlands are going to give the UK Labour the two fingers in this election. I think the Blairites within the UK labour Party are going to be in for a rude shock this time round. The Australian Working Class give the Shorten and the Oz labour the two fingers, and the NZ Labour Party better watch themselves as well next year.

            • halfcrown

              Thanks for that Kiwi I agree with you 300% I could have written more and thank you for adding what I wanted to say

              I have friends in NZ who worked on the TSR.2 The way they speak about this aircraft which they had great pride in I get the impression it was the last straw where they were concerned when it was scrapped. There is one airframe left and that is at Duxford Agree with you I feel English Electric should have built it as you said it was a EE design, but once again cretinous fuckwit politicians got in the way.

              You mentioned Avro of Canada another great design the Avro Arrow, that upset the Yanks scrapped within a couple of weeks and the then Canadian government had their arm twisted to buy a missile from the Yanks which once again was a heap of crap that did not work.

              A great quote from Sir Sydney Camm designer of the Hurricane and Hunter(I think)

              “All modern aircraft have four dimensions: Span, Length, Height and Politics. TSR2 simply got the first three right.” -……………………….. Sir Sydney Camm.

              • Exkiwiforces

                This book might be your up alley and does look to be quite interesting


                The three TSR2 Books I have are

                TSR2 Britain's lost bomber by Damien Burke,

                TSR2 Britain's lost cold war strike aircraft by Tim Mclelland,

                X Planes TSR2 Britain's lost cold war strike jet by Andrew Brookes who an Bomber Command/ Strike Command V Bomber Pilot

                Also this book called the Lost Eagle on the TSR2 is very good as well.

                I have two Diecast 1/72 models of both the TSR2 and the CF-105 and this book Avro Arrow put out by The Boston Mills Press http://www.bostonmillpress.com

                Then I also have Tony Butlers books called the British Secret Projects and two are on Rockets Hypersonic and Ramjets and Dan Sharp's Vol 5 of this is the UK Space Program Projects.

                Chris Gibson also has a Series where he breaks down all the various Operational Requirements (OR's) into

                Vulcan's Hammer (Bomber)

                Battle Flight (Fighters and Air Defence)

                Nimrod's Genesis (Maritime Patrol and Weapons)

                On Atlas shoulders (RAF Transport)

                Listening In (RAF Spookies/ Snoopy's aka Electronic Intelligence) and the new out is

                Typhoon to Typhoon (Close Air Support)

                Sir Sid Cam’s last jet fighter is also very interesting the Hawker P1121 which wouldn’t look out of place on a modern flightline in today’s airforce either. It’s remains are held at Canwell Aviation Centre for Aeronautical Research I believe

  22. Eco maori 23

    Kia Ora 1 News.

    Natural prouds are not extremely hard to extinguish when on ahi.

    I know who I won't tau toko.

    I did not know much
    about India culture.

    I don't think that statement should have been made.

    Its good that some reparation has been given to Parihaka Tangata Whenua of Tarakihi.

    I would like my day in Whare whakawa.

    Ka kite Ano.

  23. Eco maori 24

    No one is immune from the Greedy chasing putea $$$$$$$$$$$$$ cause all the problems of Te Papatuanuku. We must change the way we live or we are all going to be suffering.

    My rich town was poisoned by a corporation. Even the 1% isn't safe from pollution

    Environmental and political leaders in the US have decided the environment is worth compromising for private profit

    My son took his first breath in a place I never imagined would be potentially harmful for his health: Hinsdale, Illinois.

    Hinsdale is listed in the top 1% of the wealthiest towns in Illinois. It’s filled with multimillion-dollar mansions, Zook architectural masterpieces and upscale shops. But Hinsdale, despite its privileged position in Chicago’s western suburbs, has one unfortunate thing against it: like any other American town, it’s part of a country whose environmental and political leaders have decided that the environment is worth compromising for private profit.

    Somehow, many of the privileged among us, including myself, didn’t think the unfortunate choices of our political leaders could have the power to kill us. They might hurt the poor in Flint, Michigan, the migrant workers in Bakersfield, California, or those who don’t have the means to leave Louisiana’s Cancer Alley. But most of us living in Hinsdale and its neighboring well-to-do towns never considered that our villages could be a Flint or Cancer Alley.

    What is happening in America's Cancertown is tragic, immoral and evil | Rev William Barber

    Read more

    We were naive. Last year we learned that Sterigenics, a global medical sterilization company with a plant in Willowbrook, Illinois, quietly spewed insane amounts of ethylene oxide (EtO), a powerful carcinogen, into our air for 35 years.

    This was wishful thinking. Nothing was done. So enraged residents formed Stop Sterigenics, a group that is now is over 10,000 members strong. We staged protests, packed town hall meetings, signed witness slips and called for Illinois politicians to shut down the company for the sake of public health

    In February, the Illinois environmental protection agency issued a seal order temporarily banning Sterigenics from using EtO, but last month, the agency granted the company a permit to continue to use the chemical. The message to all of us was clear: the rights of Sterigenics to make a profit mattered more to the IEPA than the rights of thousands of people living in its vicinity not to be subjected to cancer-causing air. This really shouldn’t have been surprising to anyone reading the news, where every day there seems to be another disaster related to an environmental policy decision, but, until it happens to you, it is.

    Just as we were preparing to breathe toxic air again, the unthinkable happened: despite being given the green light to continue using EtO (albeit with certain emissions restrictions in place), Sterigenics announced it was leaving Willowbrook. They blamed their lease and the “unpredictable” regulatory landscape rather than the community activism that has fought them relentlessly for 14 months. But the question to the rest of the nation is: where are they going? They emit EtO in eight other locations nationwide, and the Environmental Protection Agency’s National Air Toxics Assessment has linked EtO to high cancer rates in Smyrna, Georgia, where Sterigenics also has a plant

    But the tough community activism of Stop Sterigenics proves that even in a world where the EPA protects corporations instead of people, people still do have power. Let’s use it to join the attorneys general of Illinois, California, Connecticut, Delaware, the District of Columbia, Iowa, Maryland, Massachusetts, Minnesota, New Mexico, New York, North Carolina, Rhode Island, Vermont, Virginia and Wisconsin, who, on 10 October, wrote a letter asking the EPA to update its current emissions standards to protect the nation from the EtO the EPA knows is killing us

    Ka kite Ano link below.


    • greywarshark 24.1

      ETO Eco Maori, another acronym to add to our list of confusing identification of harmful substances and practices. Glad they are leaving one part of Illinois, but where else are they going to go with their ill-ness producing methods?

  24. Eco maori 25

    Some Eco Maori Music For The Minute.

  25. Eco maori 26

    Some Eco Maori Music For The Minute.

  26. Eco maori 27

    Kia Ora Breakfast.

    I think it's good that our government has given farmers 5 years to come up with a plan and show they are lowering their carbon footprint

    . That's good the Australians respecting Te Tangata of Australias views and banning people from climbing their Taonga moanga Uluru

    Te insurance industry in Aotearoa will kick Te little companies to touch. Greed and Prophets.

    Ka kite Ano

  27. Eco maori 28

    I agree no one would have thought that the intelligence tangata of Te Papatuanuku would strike for our futures Climate 10 years ago or even 3 years ago. Kia Kaha to all the Tangata who are doing the correct thing for our future.

    There are no excuses left': why climate science deniers are running out of rope

    Guardian environment correspondent Fiona Harvey recalls being heckled at the House of Commons and explains how attitudes to climate have shifted in 10 years

    The shouted words rang out across the packed parliamentary corridor: “Fiona Harvey is the worst journalist there is. She’s the worst journalist of them all, because she should know better.”

    They were the words of Lord Lawson, former UK chancellor of the exchequer, turned climate denier and now Brexiter, addressing a crowd of more than 100 people trying to cram into a House of Commons hearing on climate change. As listeners craned their necks to hear better, whispering and nudging, he elaborated at length on my insistence on reporting the work of the 97% of the world’s climate scientists whose work shows human responsibility for global heating, and failure to give equal weight to the tiny number of dissenters

    As the science of climate chaos has become vastly clearer in the past two decades, and the warnings more stark, the rearguard action fought by climate denialists has grown fiercer and their attacks more vicious. Fact-based arguments will never serve their purpose; trolling is the last refuge of the discredited. We can expect much more of the same.

    When I began writing full-time on the environment in 2004, climate change had hit a political impasse. George W Bush was in the White House, the US preoccupied with the war on terror and – as Bush admitted – “addicted to oil”. The 1997 Kyoto protocol was on ice, without the backing of enough countries to bring it into force, and international negotiations on greenhouse gases were stagnating as a result.

    Suddenly, like a glacier destabilising, small cracks turned into crevasses and whole edifices came avalanching down. First Russia played the unlikely hero: by ratifying Kyoto in late 2004 (cynically, in return for a favour at the World Trade Organization) the Duma rescued the treaty from the scrapheap of history. That was enough to galvanise the UN negotiations, loosening entrenched positions and giving the talks a point once more.

    Tony Blair did his bit by making climate change the main theme for the UK’s 2005 presidency of the G8, which forced world leaders to confront the issue. The EU’s emissions trading scheme came into being early that year, marking the first time companies were held responsible financially for their carbon output.

    Ka kite Ano link below.

  28. Eco maori 30

    Some Eco Maori Music For The Minute.

  29. Eco maori 31

    Kia Ora 1 News.

    What a mess.

    That's is cool a new drinking water quality monitor.

    Tawhirimate is Mana at Uluru.

    The 5 new Islands that the Russian have mapped looks like the wild life have made a whare there.

    Ringer for Mark


    Ka kite Ano.

  30. Eco maori 32

    Kia Ora Te Ao Maori News.

    Its good that people are being caught a charged for pouching Kai Moana .

    Mike Smith that's the way we need to leave the carbon in Te Papatuanuku.

    Congratulations Hinerangi Goodman on your winning a seat on the Whakatane Council Awsome to see more Wahine and tangata whenua standing for Local government positions.

    Ka kite Ano

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