Open mike 24/03/2020

Written By: - Date published: 7:00 am, March 24th, 2020 - 131 comments
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Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

131 comments on “Open mike 24/03/2020 ”

  1. aj 1

    Adrian Orr taking apart Corin Dann's economic ignorance on RNZ as I speak.

    • Nic the NZer 1.1

      I thought it was a good performance given the role of both parties. Remember the interviewers job is to ask all the stupid questions to allow the interviewee to explain the topic in more depth. That and the general public has little idea what the terms even mean.

  2. I would like to compliment all the commentators on The Standard for their patience in dealing with Paddington's pedantic and nit-picking yesterday. Even LPrent, whose caustic comments have raised a smile in the past, was subdued.

    If this is indicative of the PM's call for kindness, well done. We will all need to be patient and understanding in the difficult times that lie ahead.

    • dv 2.1

      Agreed,TV

      Paddington Needs to be Self isolated

      Just ignore.

    • Anne 2.2

      Maybe we were all out panic buying. blush

    • Yep! It was bloody hard not to chip in – which would have simply added to the pedantry.

      Pushing the barriers at all costs – in order to be right. Twas so; Twas not; Twas so; Twas not.

      Hopefully the Bear is of a mood to be feeling particularly cuddly

      • Incognito 2.3.1

        I’ve left a moderation note asking for it to be dropped, thanks. Now, if we could all move on and focus on what really matters right here, right now, that would be great and might even safe lives.

        • OnceWasTim 2.3.1.1

          "Now, if we could all move on and focus on what really matters right here"

          We can, and have ……….. or maybe not – but it's six days later, and fromwhat I've seen as an interloper, Paddy Bear seems to have tucked up his tail and scarpered (possibly to re-appear under another guise)

          Next

  3. Reality 3

    Well said Tony. Paddington was being an irritating house fly buzzing around, but people had bigger things to think about than his/her silliness.

    Jacinda’s instinctive qualities as a leader and communicator were again things we should be so grateful for at this time. Talking to a friend (on the phone) yesterday after her announcement, was interesting. He was so complimentary about how she has handled all this massive situation.

  4. Cinny 4

    Does anyone in your household suffer from anxiety?

    My youngest does, so I made up some info sheets for her last night and a list of her responsibilities before we officially go into lock down. Put official logos etc on it thanks to the covid-19 website.

    This has helped sooooo much, as she now knows what to expect and can check her info sheets if she is unsure.

    For example…. today my girls need to decide on any projects they wish to complete over the next month and any supplies they may need for that project, because the warehouse, mitre 10, $2 shop etc won't be open for a month come Thursday.

    • patricia 4.1

      Saw that Warehouse will be open. Perhaps because they have many household basics at excellent prices, veg and flower plants and warmer clothing as well. They are also big and allow for space. Cheers You are such a good Mum.

      • Cinny 4.1.1

        Cheers 🙂

        Ironically I chickened out, way too many people up town today Lmao!!!

        The Plan B projects are…. De-cluttering with Marie Kondo…. and… how to be resourceful!!! ROFL 🙂

    • Macro 4.2

      Here is a little something from one of my on-line friends in the US. He offers his experiences from a similar situation he faced last year, with a cartoon that your daughters might identify with:

      When I was in isolation during cancer treatments last year, some days I just played Red Dead Redemption Online because the stress of the situation made being actually productive too emotionally difficult. We all deal with stress in different ways. It ok to freak out a bit, this is a novel flu pandemic, life has changed, it’s ok to acknowledge how this is affecting you. We are all under duress, don’t beat you’re self up if your productivity is not as high as it was before or your not excited about doing stuff, this is a high stress situation. Remember to give yourself permission to feel anything right now. Feelings and random thoughts are not who you are as a person. You can only control your actions.

      image

      [lprent; Changed image width to 520. ]

    • Adrian 4.3

      Well done, try and make some games out of it with mini prizes, those parents who did this in the Chch aftershocks, i.e. quessing strength of aftershocks etc, had children emerge in good health .

  5. Ffloyd 5

    Would anyone know if owner operator lawn mowing business would be eligible for subsidy if the operator is a superannuitant getting pension. Which,as most people know is barely subsistence level. We have payments to make for van and motor mowers and other debts that go along with business ownership such as taxes and accountants etc.

    Without this business we wouldnt survive so we have to keep it going.

    I cant find mention of beneficiaries who are business owners being eligible. Help!!

  6. Andre 6

    Thought of the moment: is Tiwai Point an essential business? If it has to shut down for four weeks, have the odds suddenly shifted towards it never starting back up again? Would the various parties to the assorted contractual obligations around shutdown timeframes be more flexible right now around amending those timeframes?

    • bwaghorn 6.1

      I believe it takes some time to shut down and longer to start. . If they do shut now is not a good time to kill them off when we are allowed out again a 1000 jobs in the south will be a big thing.

    • weka 6.2

      also my understanding that you can't just shut it down temporarily (technical reasons).

      I would guess that it's essential. We're not going to stop using aluminium this year.

      • Andre 6.2.1

        The problems you hear about around shutting down potlines are mostly around the damage that happens when the power supply is unexpectedly lost. While planned shutdowns are still expensive, they are less expensive than unplanned forced shutdowns. Given the financial pain being caused across the rest of New Zealand, it amounts to special pleading for Tiwai Point to claim their financial pain from shutdown is somehow unique or should entitle them to special privileges.

        Very little of Tiwai Point's output is used in New Zealand. It is of generally very high purity (because of the way they choose to operate the smelter, not anything special about New Zealand) and it mostly goes to Japan for specialist electronic uses. I've had occasion to look into the supply chain for the aluminium used in some engineering projects I've been involved in, and every time it has been imported.

        • weka 6.2.1.1

          thanks Andre. I don't care very much about Comalco's profit, other than how that might affect NZ (and we could definitely do with freeing up Manapouri power). Job losses and our international obligations to essential production matter. Do we buy specialist electronics from Japan?

          The other big issue is how safe is it re covid for workers? Can good protocols be put in place?

          I'd see closure generally in the context of the Powerdown and creating sustainable tech industries esp in relation to CC. Don't know if now or later is better for that, but we're not having the necessary conversation yet.

          • weka 6.2.1.1.1

            (btw if this is something in the news, a link can help for those of us not up to speed).

            • Andre 6.2.1.1.1.1

              No it's not something in the news, it really was just a random thought for the morning. Given that the review decision was supposed to be complete sometime in this first quarter, I'm a little surprised at the silence.

          • Andre 6.2.1.1.2

            I've never visited Tiwai Point, so this is just speculation, but here goes anyway …

            As far as worker protection from COVID-19 goes, the production area of smelter type operations tends to have very low worker density, so keeping distance is unlikely to be a problem. It's a huge facility and if there's only 1000 or so there covering 24/7 shifts, they can't be very close together. Except maybe in smoko rooms.

            I'd guess the higher risk would be for professional and lab staff. It's unlikely they've resisted the general execrable management trend of jamming as many people as possible into crowded open-plan areas. So they're more likely to spend all day in close proximity.

      • lprent 6.2.2

        As Andre says, an orderly shutdown isn't that much of a problem.

        Quite expensive in power and especially when you look at what it does to the refractories (I used to do tech sales at Kamo Green refractories during Think Big).

        I wouldn't expect that it is defined as 'essential'. They may get some grace from just arguing the economic impact to the economy. We're going to be scratching for export income for a while.

        • Andre 6.2.2.1

          I had a quick look for up to date news specific to Tiwai Point and didn't find any. But there was a lot about how chinese smelters have kept running and there's now an oversupply with reduced demand. Plus stories of how the big companies are putting the squeeze on other countries such as Icelasnd threatening to shut down if they don't get lower electricity prices.

          So I suspect we're in for another disaster capitalism play from Rio Tinto for more hidden and overt subsidies that the rest of us pay for. Leveraging off of ideas like scarcity of export income and preserving jobs etc.

    • Macro 6.3

      Hmmmm. Good thought!

  7. greywarshark 7

    A thing about exotic trees and native trees in Australia and how flammable Oz trees are. We don't have a lot of Eucs here but the principle is the same and discussions here along the same lines are important.

    https://the-riotact.com/the-exotic-weeds-that-saved-a-braidwood-truffle-forest-from-destruction/360629

    For decades, Peter has planted a mosaic of trees including his truffle bearing hazelnuts and oaks, but also poplars and willows, and up to 30 bamboo varieties. His aim is to restore the property’s capacity to retain water at all levels, moving it gently through the soil profile rather than streaming off degraded, heavily compacted land…

    Peter’s reasoning is that even a fire roaring uphill with a good draft will pause when it hits green trees. He estimates that a mature poplar, for example, is carrying 100 to 200 kg of water. As the fire and the trees interact, there’s a burst of flash evaporation from the greenery that absorbs heat. Peter says updraft wind will drop almost instantly under those conditions.

    The wind controlling effect of banked deciduous foliage also worked to dramatically slow the fire’s spread and, three rows in, the blaze became controllable with groundwork and shovels.

    • Robert Guyton 7.1

      That's a great article, grey.

      • greywarshark 7.1.1

        Thanks Robert. Hope everything is going well in green land and family.

        And while you have a minutes I wondered if you could tell me if I'm hurting my cherry plum tree draining rinse water towards which has a touch of detergent in it still. The leaves on a weaker side are dullish and hanging. Might just have been too dry from weeks of little water.

        • cricklewood 7.1.1.1

          Short term no, long term quite likely… some detergents are much worse than others for that matter. Cold Water laundry detergent is pretty nasty.

  8. Macro 8

    Thought I might just kick around home today.

    Maybe a little trip into town this afto to do a bit of panic buying?

    Exciting times!

    • weka 8.1

      Take care out there Macro!

      (I keep thinking about panic and hoping people aren't hurting themselves and having more accidents that end up needing treatment. It's going to be really interesting to see what happens with that over the next month).

    • I Feel Love 8.2

      I'm an essential worker apparently, but what I'm seeing today is panic driving, looking forward to some quiet roads during lockdown while I go about my essential business. Also today, 15-20 car long queues for McDonalds.

  9. I noticed Henry Cooke being snide again. According to him, Jacinda has us "Under House Arrest"

    We can go for a walk, shop for food, get our medications, Make up our own activities, use the internet, talk to friends and neighbours over the fence or on the "phone/skype

    What is stuck in his craw?
    Sorry, I could not locate the article again. Herald.
    Be kind Henry, the PM is working hard to save lives…. get with the goal and write some helpful pieces.

  10. ianmac 10

    Alcohol. The Police have always said that over 70% of their work is dealing with alcohol related incidents.

    Does the shutdown mean that the Police get a respite from dealing with drunks spilling out onto the street? That would be great wouldn't it?

    • Andre 10.1

      Maybe. But not if the reduction in problems on the street is matched or exceeded by an increase in alcohol-related domestic problems.

      • ianmac 10.1.1

        True but at least those punch-ups outside pubs should diminish. Would domestic drink related problems increase? Hope not.

        • OnceWasTim 10.1.1.1

          I suspect they have, and tho' it's nice to be able to walk down the street (keeping me 2 mtr separation and watching the stupidity with a degree of amusement at [predominantly] male ego insecurities), shifting the problem into the private domain will probably mean a whole lot of it goes unreported.

          Already, I've noticed an increase in decibels from some of the neighbouring properties in the early hours, then later the littering of RTD cans and empty bottles of piss.

          I'm actually hoping Women's Refuge and various other agencies begin to report they are being overwhelmed.

      • Carolyn_Nth 10.1.2

        Yes. And overseas there are reports of increased domestic violence, largely against women, during Covid-19 lock downs. It can keep the abused trapped in homes with their abusers.

        • gsays 10.1.2.1

          We spoke of this last night, in the context of the children who go to school as they can get food. Also school can be a violence free refuge, as opposed to home. Home that now has an even higher stressed adult(s) dishing out the family harm.

          • Carolyn_Nth 10.1.2.1.1

            Yes. I think they may be a reason for keeping schools open as long as possible.

            And for re-opening them as soon as it is wise and safe to do so.

    • The Al1en 10.2

      Well if the stories about queues at bottle stores and panic buying are true, then probably not, it may just be spilling out on to driveways instead of the high street.

  11. Anne 11

    A little something to while away the long hours to be spent at home:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9XNKQY4tQc

    Yep. It's Pippa. The albatross chick /live cam. Poor little mite is being buffeted by strong winds and rain at the moment.

    They also produce a video of the highlights at the end of each day which consists of Mum and Dad returning to feed her and a bunch of teenage Albatross brats who like to tease and harass her especially around feed time. Mum knows how to handle them.

  12. bill 12

    Have just received info of an eviction going ahead today. Mother and seven year old is the info I have to hand atm.

    • Carolyn_Nth 12.1

      Christ. Have such landlords got no shame? Name and shame – or even report to authorities. Where are they meant to go once the lock down deadline arrives?

  13. gsays 13

    It would seem that the powers that be at our local hospital may have missed a trick in respect to uniforms. This, to me, is a potentially serious health and safety issue.

    Almost all front-line health staff (nurses) wear their uniform to and from work.

    There is push-back from management against the wearing of scrubs. Scrubs are an ideal solution to keeping staff families and homes free of the virus that can be bought home on clothing. The hospitals still launder scrubs so any potential contamination stays in house.

    Particularly ironic as our local hospital has just changed the colour of the surgical scrubs in January, so there must be a surplus of this clothing somewhere.

  14. Paaparakauta 14

    It will be interesting to see how Covid-19 affects the next Australian election. Their infection rates are much higher than ours. There could be a backlash against a last minute Cambridge Analytica campaign.

  15. Carolyn_Nth 15

    RNZ has an article with services that will to operate during the lock down.

    This is good to see:

    Public transport and domestic air travel can only be used for medical reasons, to get to the supermarket, for people working in essential services and for freight.

    and

    taxis and ride share services like Uber will continue operating.

  16. lprent 16

    Looks like something is broken in the right hand feeds.

    I will have a look at it when I finish work today.

  17. A 17

    Chris Martenson praising NZ saying PM "just doing a great job". Yep, she is. Just prior to this time segment a letter from Annie, who closed her restaurant a couple of days before officials ordered it.

    Early in this piece we learn that New York is over 20,000 cases – that was quick. Other surprises are Switzerland who have more cases per person than other countries.

    https://youtu.be/EzaHBM7PP8A?t=1263

  18. Whispering Kate 18

    I have just found out the WINZ offices are closing down for fear of staff getting infected by the virus. Why isn't this classified as an essential department for citizens when they are allowing The Warehouse to remain open for business. When has the Warehouse ever been considered an essential industry/business. Have I just fallen down the rabbit hole here. What it he hell is going on. Also All the courts are closing with the exception of the District courts – how does this equate as well. People are people no matter what court they have to attend and will catch this virus no matter what the sin is.

    I am increasingly becoming confused about how these decisions are agreed upon. What about all the thousands of people who are now without jobs. How do they get any support if they can't get to their local WINZ Office. Not everybody has a computer or even able to afford to get online. Somebody clarify to me – am I missing something here. I have a loved one who is fragile and involved in these two departments and its hard enough with the enormity of the environment right now without pulling up the drawbridge on one department – WINZ and allowing the other District Courts to remain open to the milling crowds of people who go in their bldgs each day.

    • ianmac 18.1

      Our Winz Office closed months ago. Now communications are by phone or email.

      • Whispering Kate 18.1.1

        Phones are not much use when the system crashes through overload. Its a futile exercise even trying to get through. People who are needing WINZ right now are out of jobs, scared shitless, and vulnerable and the powers that be should have been better prepared for the influx of numbers and laid on more staff and perspex screens for them to protect from this virus if they are so worried over them. I am definitely down the rabbit hole over this.

    • adam 18.2

      The Warehouse helped stop the peasants revolting when we entered the fire economy – they are essential to the survival of liberalism as the dominate ideology.

  19. observer 19

    I went to a supermarket in central Auckland this morning and it was remarkably calm and relatively uncrowded. No busier than a typical pre-Christmas day. Queue at checkout no longer than usual. Some shelves were sparsely stocked but there was nothing on my list I couldn't get if I changed brands. Posh pasta instead of budget pasta, no biggie.

    I realize many people are not as conveniently close to supermarkets and dairies as I am. But in the last 48 hours I have had no problem buying both essentials and treats (and no I'm not hoarding).

    In Auckland at least, panic is pointless.

  20. RedBaronCV 20

    I too wonder why the warehouse remains open. Yes it does sell some food but it's not a main offering IIRC a lot of it is imported and we need to do without the shopping fix that people may want to access for other goods. Why have they not got the stay at home message.

    WINZ I would have thought was essential. – Okay they would want internet & phone first and they need to call back the pay as you use people – maybe they should stuff some form of access around the supermarkets – dedicated phone line or a credit that goes only to WINZ.

    • Carolyn_Nth 20.1

      Update from Ministry, etc today says it has not been decided that the Warehouse will stay open. I think it means it's still being assessed.

      Maybe someone from Warehouse was premature. He also said if anyone is unsure if their business was an "essential service" it probably isn't.

      • observer 20.1.1

        It should be closed, let's hope sense prevails.

        "Self-isolation" allows for a walk outside, carefully avoiding contact, but based on my (obviously random) sample of seeing people on the street on this last day before lockdown, I'd say at least a quarter still don't "get it". Plenty of proximity and touching.

        It takes time for the message to sink in, so we can expect an extension after one month, as community transfer continues. If we can't be trusted to do this right, then it's going to be a full curfew.

        • Carolyn_Nth 20.1.1.1

          Yes. I can't believe the queues outside some supermarkets (and gun shops) where people are not doing the 2 meter distancing from each other. I hope this gets controlled in future.

          I certainly won't be venturing out til that is sorted.

          I'm fortunate that I was able to book a supermarket home delivery for Sunday, and I have a nephew on standby who will deliver more more food (mostly fresh fruit & veges) when I need them.

  21. greywarshark 23

    Micro businesses – NZrs who make their own work since various governments made it so hard for small business which collapsed unable to compete with the world.

    And here we see how the gummint agencies are just not concerned about helping these great innovative entrepreneurs in their small businesses.

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/412485/hospitality-business-owners-fear-for-their-future-after-lockdown-announced

    <i>Only about $200 went through the till yesterday – down from about $1500 on a good day…. "Honestly I'm freaking out. I don't know if I can sustain it because how am I going to pay my rent even?

    "I haven't even paid this month's rent yet, you know what I mean? "How do I pay the rent? How do I pay the wages, the power bill, the phone bill, my mortgage?"

    Boyd said as a sole trader she did not yet have the 13-digit business number required to access government relief funds. "I really don't understand that either because I've been trying to get my New Zealand business number."

    I even went to my accountant and he went online with me and it wouldn't get through. It kept saying 'error' but it won't tell me what the error is."

    Boyd said she was worried about her staff, one of whom was expecting a baby.</i>

    • SPC 23.1

      The next government action will cover business and residential expense payments whose incomes have been impacted.

  22. Muttonbird 24

    A stunning kick in the guts for renters who continue to have to pay rent while homeowners, including their own landlords get a mortgage holiday!

    This is a massively unfair playing field – the haves once again getting special treatment at the expense of the have-nots.

    This leaves landlords able to bank renters' money with interest while having no outgoings at all.

    Tell me I'm missing something here…

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12319343

    • SPC 24.1

      It also means that the landlord with a mortgage can claim this where their tenant’s income is affected – instead of hassling the tenant.

      There is so little interest on bank accounts its not going to tempt anyone.

    • RedLogix 24.2

      This leaves landlords able to bank renters' money with interest while having no outgoings at all.

      A far as I am aware though all the other fixed costs like rates, insurance and property management fees will likely remain. You would be surprised at what a large fraction of your rent these consume. Including other smaller sundries we allow 50% of the rent to go in fixed costs. After that comes the variable costs like mortgage interest and annual company tax.

      If a tenant stops paying their rent, a mortgage holiday will be very welcome, but it goes nowhere near covering all our costs.

      • SPC 24.2.1

        The government should look at dole plus half rent paid for those losing their income/employment. Half rent would cover such utility costs for the landlord.

        • Muttonbird 24.2.1.1

          Tenants are going to be shafted; either owing massive amounts in rent or kicked out after the lockdown period is over.

          A comment elsewhere on the subject with respect to the fraught idea of the random negotiating of rent reductions between tenant (powerless) and landlord (the clue is in the name).

          • Sabine 24.2.1.1.1

            My landlord requires his pound of flesh on the seventh.

            I am debating if i shall cut it from the ribs or the hind?

            • Muttonbird 24.2.1.1.1.1

              Do you know what. I wouldn't have an issue if we were all in this together but today the preferential treatment for the comparatively wealthy beggars belief.

              The reasoning for the mortgage holiday is apparently so people don't 'lose their homes'.

              What if they did 'lose their homes', what would they be then?

              I'll tell you what they'd be…

              …renters.

              • Sabine

                i hardly believe that a company with 80 million annual turnover would have a owner who would 'loose' the house.

                nah, these guys are making sure that some survive – whom ever they consider 'solvent' – and the rest so far can get fucked. Essentially this is a very national bail out, it is what i would have expected from teh National Party.

                I am honestly out of wits when it comes to the 'hand outs' of this government.

                funnily enough i was interviewed today by some 'regional NZ herald' guy and i essentially said that the government needs to either offer interest free loans or offer a rent/mortgage/lease/bill holiday to all of us. Its not ok to tell us to take a bank loan on the eve of Financial Crisis 2.0. So far my loyal customers have come through. I have discounted everything, and tomorrow last day – morning only – hopefully will see me make enough money for the Landlord.

                I already advised my chocolate supplier that next month bill will be the first that i will miss in 8 years.

                I don't wish the Labour Party and the coalition any ill, but i will never ever support them – not with money, not with time, and most certainly not with a vote. I just don't have any reason to do so.

    • Sabine 24.3

      The scheme will include a limit of $500,000 per loan and will apply to firms with a turnover of between $250,000 and $80 million per annum. The loans will be for a maximum of three years and expected to be provided by the banks at competitive, transparent rates.

      well these businesses are very deserving, and need a bail out as where all those below 250.000 turnover per annum can get fucked.

  23. veutoviper 25

    WINZ Ongoing Services

    Contrary to rumours, misinformation etc here and elsewhere, WINZ has NOT closed down completely.

    MSD/WINZ has been designated an essential service. Like many other Goverment departments also classed as essential services, it has closed its service centres for face to face appointments, advice etc – BUT will continue to provide advice, help etc via its internet site and by phome.

    More here in the last hour or so:

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/covid-19/412487/winz-moves-to-online-and-phone-services

    Some other changes mentioned in that article of interest:

    MSD is also making a number of other changes, coming into effect on 30 March, for a six-month period:

    • Removing the need to provide subsequent medical certificates for clients already getting Jobseeker Support or Sole Parent Support
    • Deferring any Disability Allowance reviews
    • Delaying Annual Reviews (including all annual reviews of income, confirming your circumstances (CYC) and annual circumstances letters (ACL), social housing reviews, and life certificates
    • Clearing any Special Benefit expiries or reviews
    • Deferring any new obligations failures.

    There is more on MSD's website here: – https://www.workandincome.govt.nz/eligibility/emergencies/2020/coronavirus.html

    NOTE that the section on Service Centre states that:

    We've closed our service centres to keep people safe and stop the spread of COVID-19. If you need to contact us urgently you can use MyMSD or contact us.

    FYI here is the URL for that "Contact Us' link – contact numbers are under each of the main headings. Press the + sign.

    https://www.workandincome.govt.nz/about-work-and-income/contact-us/phone-numbers.html#null

    Standdown periods were discussed at length over the last few days. These have been suspended for the six months from 23 March 2020 – 23 November 2020.

    More detail and further links here – https://www.workandincome.govt.nz/online-services/apply/what-is-a-stand-down.html

    Note the wording in this particular section which I have underlined:

    Left your job voluntarily or fired for misconduct

    If you've left your job without a good reason or have been fired for misconduct, you may still need to wait up to 13 weeks before your payments start.

    This 13 week period is a non-entitlement period, not a stand-down.

    The wording "you may still need to wait up to 13 weeks", implies that this is not a compulsory set period; rather a period of time to a maximum of 13 weeks which is open to a decision by WINZ based on the circumstances of each case where someone has left a job voluntarily or has been fired for misconduct.

    Hope the above helps.

    PS – Just heard the PM, in her press conference currently underway, confirm that The Warehouse will not be open and is not an essential service.

  24. joe90 26

    Xtian writer's pro-life mask hood slips.

    At the press conference on Friday announcing the New York shutdown, Governor Andrew Cuomo said, “I want to be able to say to the people of New York—I did everything we could do. And if everything we do saves just one life, I’ll be happy.”

    This statement reflects a disastrous sentimentalism. Everything for the sake of physical life? What about justice, beauty, and honor? There are many things more precious than life. And yet we have been whipped into such a frenzy in New York that most family members will forgo visiting sick parents. Clergy won’t visit the sick or console those who mourn. The Eucharist itself is now subordinated to the false god of “saving lives.”

    […]

    A number of my friends disagree with me. They support the current measures, insisting that Christians must defend life. But the pro-life cause concerns the battle against killing, not an ill-conceived crusade against human finitude and the dolorous reality of death.

    https://www.firstthings.com/web-exclusives/2020/03/say-no-to-deaths-dominion

  25. RedBaronCV 27

    Yes that is a huge kick in the guts for renters. Why is the mortgage holiday for people who are renting out their properties. Sounds more like "a be kind to banks week."

    Right up there with all the high income employees and directors not taking a haircut while they spend their time laying people off.

    As for Winz – tone deaf as usual – just pushing the everyone can go online agenda – despite benefits being insufficent to support being able to afford these services or for that matter a phone. Oh and guess what the library has been closed so even if there is one the internet can't be used there either.

    • dv 27.1

      What i read was

      A six-month mortgage holiday for people whose incomes have been affected by Covid-19 will mean people won't lose their homes as a result of the economic disruption caused by this virus

      A key word was home , not property.

      • Muttonbird 27.1.1

        Still a massive imbalance in the way two sections of society are being treated. And it still applies to the landlord who claims the holiday on their own home.

        One section is being offered massive relief around the biggest household cost of all at this very stressful and critical time, while another section is offered nothing in the same area.

        This needs to be sorted or there will be massive unrest.

        • SPC 27.1.1.1

          It also means that the landlord with a mortgage can claim this where their tenant’s income is affected – instead of hassling the tenant.

          • Muttonbird 27.1.1.1.1

            They'll be hassling the tenant alright, as soon as they think it's safe to do so

            I'd say a few days after the lockdown finishes…

      • Sabine 27.1.2

        this is from the article linked above.

        The scheme will include a limit of $500,000 per loan and will apply to firms with a turnover of between $250,000 and $80 million per annum. The loans will be for a maximum of three years and expected to be provided by the banks at competitive, transparent rates.

        i really don't see why a business owner with 80 million turn over needs a mortgage holiday, while the dude on 70.000 does not. But then maybe the dude with the 80 million dollar business needs to buy some more cheap houses when the dudes on regular wages default. After all we can't have socialism for the poor, no we only have it for the well to do, and the very rich. Besides, when the Labour critters quit parliament they would like to have some lucrative jobs on boards and such, so consider it a 'prepayment' for services to be rendered in the future.

    • Whispering Kate 27.2

      Now somebody understands what my thread was about. A lot of people on benefits do not own a computer and if they do own one they cannot afford to go online. Libraries were open with computers and wifi and were available to these beneficeries and now they have closed down too. Owning a computer and being online is a luxury to many people and I find it quite extraordinary to plead the safety of their staff the reason for closing down. What about all the staff in supermarkets, pharmacies, they are having to run the gauntlet of being in harm's way. I just don't buy it at all their excuse for shutting down.

      Even the District Court is staying open for the poor felons going before the judges. Obviously they want to punish the felons and punish the poor bastards who are out of work, mentally unwell, physically disabled etc. as well.

      Yes, I definitely have gone down the rabbit hole on this one.

  26. joe90 28

    Screen shots from web cams around the world.

    https://twitter.com/noahkalina/status/1242114225121693696

  27. SPC 29

    If people use the month to outdoor exercise, on foot or bike and get plenty of sleep then our public health (stronger immune systems) will be stronger for it. It is a good time of year for it.

  28. Cinny 30

    If you've got elderly neighbours don't forget to make sure they are ok, because they may be scared or have no family close by.

    We've contacted ours to let them know (via a note slipped under their door) if we go to the supermarket etc we will contact them know in advance should they need anything.

  29. veutoviper 31

    Courts and COVID-19

    Mention was made in the comment at 18 that prompted my one at 25 re WINZ, that all Courtrs except District Courts were being closed down.

    The Court situation is actually a lot more complex than what was stated at 18 and is still being sorted out. Advice about what is happening with the Courts is being promulgated on an ongoing basis on the following link and also on the Courts of New Zealand Twitter account @CourtsofNZ.

    https://www.courtsofnz.govt.nz/publications/announcements/covid-19-coronavirus/court-protocols/
    (quot; ") from of a note from Chief Justice Winkelmann on the link

    "Courts are an essential service. It is essential that New Zealand courts continue to uphold the rule of law and to ensure that fair trial rights, the right to natural justice and rights under the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act are upheld"

    "However, the move to level 4 will be extremely disruptive to everyday court practices. It will affect the ability of all who support the operations of the courts, and those who appear before them, to prepare for or attend at court."

    For the remainder of this week it is expected that courts will operate only in the priority areas of:proceedings that affect: liberty of the individual, personal safety and wellbeing, and matters in which resolution is time-critical.

    Proceedings in the following courts will not go ahead this week: Supreme Court, Court of Appeal, Employment Court, Environment Court (with one exception), Māori Land Court, Waitangi Tribunal, and Coroners Court.

    To the maximum extent possible, and to avoid the need for people to attend court in person, the courts will use remote participation eg AVL where that is possible, telephone or email.

    “However, in the District Court in-person attendances may be required in some cases. Where court attendance is unavoidable, the safety of the public, court staff and members of the legal profession is paramount. Measures have been taken to achieve physical distance and to improve courthouse hygiene.”

    Further advice re District Court hearings is also u=included in the above main link and inter alia includes this link https://www.districtcourts.govt.nz/media-information/information-for-legal-practitioners/for-the-profession-re-24-march-2020-23-march-2020

    In summary (rough mix of quotes and shortened wording):

    From today, the following proceedings take priorityin the District Court (all full quotes):

    • Criminal when the defendant is in custody: Public order offenders; Bail applications (including breaches); Sentencing those already in custody; Deportation warrants; CP(MIP); Breach of PSOs.
    • Civil: Injunctions, Harassment orders; Harmful digital communications; Tenancy Tribunal appeals against evictions.
    • Youth: Arrests (first appearances); Secure care applications, Bail applications; Review of custody, CP (MIP), Early release hearing (see separate letter from Principal Youth Court Judge Walker.)
    • Family: Public Health Order applications; Without notice applications: Care and protection (s 67 and s 78 immediate uplift); Protection and related Orders (Family Violence Act); Care of Children applications (family violence related); Mental Health (applications for compulsory treatment orders); Other without notice applications: PPPR, PRA, Hague Convention; Substance Addiction (Compulsory Treatment); s 67 Care and Protection.

    Other proceedings will be administratively adjourned to the next available date except in the case of Youth Court which will be adjourned for four weeks. (shortened)

    "If AVL facilities are not available, the Duty Solicitor (or Duty Youth Advocate or Assigned Youth Advocate in Youth Court) must attend in person.

    If facilities for the defendant to appear by AVL are not available, the defendant will appear in person.

    In the Family Court, counsel are to appear by telephone or AVL, and if facilities are not available, in person.

    In Civil cases, counsel can appear by telephone."

    Again, I hope that clarifies things a bit at least.

  30. Macro 32

    Hmmm out of toilet paper..

    Will this work?

    does%20this%20work

    • Andre 32.1

      If yer gonna try to wipe yer bum with that, I recommend you remove the spikes first.

      • Macro 32.1.1

        No I want it to sprout like an avocado stone – then I can plant it in the garden and get lots of rolls for free!

        • Andre 32.1.1.1

          Wellll, if growing lots of toilet rolls with spikes sticking out of them is your thing, I'm not gonna judge.

        • Anne 32.1.1.2

          Methinks Macro is getting bored out of his brain with this lock-down before its even officially started. Didn't you manage to get into town for a bout of panic buying this afto?

          • In Vino 32.1.1.2.1

            Go Macro – we need positive, creative ideas like yours (but preferably ones that will work..) Anyway – just ignore all those unworthy put-downs.

            [don’t think you meant to use your email as user name. Have changed it, but please check before your next comment – weka]

          • Macro 32.1.1.2.2

            Yep! I managed to snare a bag of spuds! And 400 grams of mince from the butcher!

            My nice lady butcher has been run off her feet today 🙁 She had to restock the shop at least twice; and care for her 8 year old and 1 year old.

            • Sabine 32.1.1.2.2.1

              saw a pack of mince – mad butcher – 2 kg – white fatty 'premium mince for

              $ 40.

              • Macro

                OMG! that s serious price gouging. Mine was $10 a kilo, mind you I brought my own container. From here on in, I'll ring up and order, and she will pack and either drop off or I can pick up from the store.

                • Sabine

                  i buy all my meat from the local butcher. The guy and his wife know what they do, they have five kids and the mad butcher's meat is just rubbish. But yeah, what a rip of.

        • Robert Guyton 32.1.1.3

          Macro – the sprout-with-toothpicks image is one I saw a few days back and sent to friends, most of whom didn't get it at all! I was amazed but learned the lesson about niche-knowledge and the ease with which one can assume that what to you is obvious (and in this case, funny) is neither of those to people who haven't tried growing an avocado this way.

    • francesca 32.2

      thats pretty funny

  31. Brigid 34

    Son's happy. 4 weeks holiday with no visitors on 80% pay.

  32. Eco Maori 35

    Kia Ora The Am Show.

    Esport is one of the fastest growing sport in the world.

    Time to pay horticultural workers more putea.

    The Spanish flue affect Maori in higher rates than others.
    Like to see you find a house to rent that cheap $350 a week.

    Ka kite Ano.

  33. Eco Maori 36

    Kia Ora Newshub. .

    Coincidence ya right.

    Kia Kaha everyone.

    Ka kite Ano.

  34. Eco Maori 37

    Kia Ora Te Ao Maori News.

    We do need to give the tangata with out a voice a voice.

    The free Kai being delivered to the needy is good.

    Kia Kaha tangata whenua o Aotearoa.

    Ka kite Ano

  35. Eco Maori 38

    Kia Ora The Am Show.

    People won't get board with all the gadgets we have these day's.

    Ka kite Ano

  36. Eco Maori 39

    Some Eco Maori Music For The Minute.

    https://youtu.be/cEXhZ8PwM-Y

  37. Eco Maori 40

    I wonder if these sis sandflys are going to try and arrest me when I go to the supermarket today.??? They will be drooling to do that with there new powers

  38. Eco Maori 41

    Kia Ora Newshub.

    Its good that our government caught the dubble dipping business trying to cheat in these times is low.

    Ka kite Ano

  39. Eco Maori 42

    Kia Ora Te Ao Maori News.

    Some of the symptoms of the virus is loss of smell and taste

    Its better that we do it hard and correct now and minimise the virus spread than not to isolation properly now and the virus spread rapidly causing chaos to our love one's and our hospital system.

    Ka kite Ano

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    3 days ago
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    4 days ago
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    4 days ago
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    4 days ago
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  • How to Factory Reset iPhone without Computer: A Comprehensive Guide to Restoring your Device
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  • Skeptical Science New Research for Week #16 2024
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  • Justice Minister to attend Human Rights Council
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    8 hours ago
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    10 hours ago
  • Speech to the Southland Otago Regional Engineering Collective Summit, 18 April 2024
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    11 hours ago
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    11 hours ago
  • New diplomatic appointments
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    12 hours ago
  • Humanitarian support for Ethiopia and Somalia
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    12 hours ago
  • Arts Minister congratulates Mataaho Collective
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    1 day ago
  • Supporting better financial outcomes for Kiwis
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  • Trade relationship with China remains strong
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  • PM’s South East Asia mission does the business
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    3 days ago
  • $41m to support clean energy in South East Asia
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    3 days ago
  • Minister releases Fast-track stakeholder list
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  • Judicial appointments announced
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    4 days ago
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    4 days ago
  • Comprehensive Partnership the goal for NZ and the Philippines
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    4 days ago
  • Taupō takes pole position
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    4 days ago
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    5 days ago
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    5 days ago
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    5 days ago
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    5 days ago
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    5 days ago
  • Inflation coming down, but more work to do
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    6 days ago
  • School attendance restored as a priority in health advice
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    6 days ago
  • Unnecessary bureaucracy cut in oceans sector
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    6 days ago
  • Patterson promoting NZ’s wool sector at International Congress
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    7 days ago
  • Removing red tape to help early learners thrive
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    7 days ago
  • RMA changes to cut coal mining consent red tape
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    7 days ago
  • McClay reaffirms strong NZ-China trade relationship
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    7 days ago
  • Prime Minister Luxon acknowledges legacy of Singapore Prime Minister Lee
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    1 week ago
  • PMs Luxon and Lee deepen Singapore-NZ ties
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    1 week ago
  • Antarctica New Zealand Board appointments
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    1 week ago
  • Finance Minister travels to Washington DC
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  • Pet bonds a win/win for renters and landlords
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    1 week ago

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