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Open mike 24/05/2020

Written By: - Date published: 1:20 am, May 24th, 2020 - 131 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

131 comments on “Open mike 24/05/2020 ”

  1. bwaghorn 1

    Who are the fools that decided to experiment with kids education buy making classes into hubs with 40 kids in them??

    My kids gone from loving school to dreading it in 1 term .

    Please explain??

    • patricia 1.1

      Ask your local Principal to explain. Perhaps 4 groups of 10 to limit covid-19 contacts?

      • bwaghorn 1.1.1

        It was done pre covid.

        Unfortunately the principle is a lovely lady who thinks the trouble makers should be given multiple chances at the expense of the gentle children.

        • ianmac 1.1.1.1

          The previous Government swept through a decision to return to the Open Plan classrooms of the 80s. As classrooms were opened up the classes of 40+ with say 2 teachers became the norm. Doesn't suit all kids. Has your school just caught up?

          Open Plan failed in the 80s.

          • KJT 1.1.1.1.1

            If it has failed before, or elsewhere, in education, as in so many other things, National is all for it.
            National likes “evidence based policy” so they can do the opposite,

            It will take decades to recover the ground lost in education, due to National's, back to the 1880's. Never mind the 80's.

          • bwaghorn 1.1.1.1.2

            Ianmac ,, the school started bringing kids out from town to boost the roll and its become a runaway train ( possible wreck) .

            We weren't consulted in any way about the expansion into hub systems or my child being 1 of 6 put up into a hub with the two years ahead.

        • James 1.1.1.2

          You don’t think that the trouble makers should be given a chances?

          why are they being like they are ? No breakfast? Problems at home ? But as soon as it impacts you – off they go.

          god forbid your kids play up and become the trouble maker – I assume you would want them to be given chances and hep then?

          • I Feel Love 1.1.1.2.1

            Maybe comprehend what he said, "at the expense of the gentle children", not quite what you implied James, unless you're shit stirring? People get a little sensitive and personal when it comes to their kids.

          • bwaghorn 1.1.1.2.2

            Do you think expanding classes to 40 helps the kids with behavioral issues??

            • In Vino 1.1.1.2.2.1

              Whatever the spin, the basic aim of all neo-liberal 'reforms' in education is cost-cutting: fitting more students into less space for less expense. I would say that was the main reason for 'Mainstreaming' as well, vociferously though its proponents will deny it.

              • KJT

                Exactly right.

                • greywarshark

                  One of the factors apparently is that children are separated from their friends that have been made and with whom they have formed a learning pair or group.

  2. Dennis Frank 2

    Worth a listen: https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/sunday/audio/2018747729/linda-clark-and-richard-harman-discuss-politics-and-progress

    You'll get a balanced appraisal of Muller out of it. Turns out Judith Collins did the numbers for him. Last weekend, if I heard Harman aright, before the polls. So the thing was up & running on the basis that the two polls would confirm what they already knew?

    • ianmac 2.1

      But when asked by a journalist at his first interview after gaining Leadership, Muller said he thought about going for Leader on Wednesday.

      • Dennis Frank 2.1.1

        The bit I heard he referred to making the decision to launch it after the poll results. So it's the difference between contingency plan and activation of that plan that we're looking at…

    • And then later on Niall Ferguson (if you're into the occasional bit of earache).

      When listening to Ferguson's wisdom as an 'Historian' – you really need to preface the title with "Neo-liberal Economic'. Just as well Fukuyama's original predictions didn't come to pass or Ferguson would be out of a job

      • Sacha 2.2.1

        Complete with denigrating governments for temporarily thwarting the free market's glorious destruction of businesses.

    • Incognito 2.3

      20’ 54”; yeah, nah.

      What was the “balanced appraisal of Muller”, in a nutshell, and what did you think of it?

      • Dennis Frank 2.3.1

        Coupla media pros with lengthy personal experience of dispassionate political commentary sharing their insights after having talked with him personally often enough through past years. No revelations – just a healthy antidote to the biased views expressed onsite here from a position of total ignorance since he won the battle…

        • McFlock 2.3.1.1

          Do you happen to have any conflicts of interest that should be declared?

          I only ask because the only previous dude I heard who went out of his way to praise provide a balanced view of Who-ller had some 'splaining to do after he quit Twitter the other day.

          • Dennis Frank 2.3.1.1.1

            No. I'm retired, my membership of the Green Party (second time round) is current at 5.5 years. I'm typical of a large swathe of humanity in preferring balanced views on anything contentious – due to it being an essential pre-condition for peaceful co-existence. 😇

        • KJT 2.3.1.2

          Mullers very first speech after he gained the leadership, included the oft repeated lying memes that have been endlessly repeated by the usual suspects, this month.
          https://www.facebook.com/gerard.otto

          Just another who is happy to join in National's one of two standard propaganda approaches to get power. Othering and repetitive lying.

          Repeating the same bs on every occasion, until repetition persuades even the people who should know better.

          “Meet the new boss, same as the old boss”.

          Does National have a clone factory for these people?
          CIA or CCP run. LOLZ

          • Dennis Frank 2.3.1.2.1

            I don't disagree that he is likely to pitch to those he represents – every politician must to be successful. Lying is a subjective judgment. Usually used without any evidence to validate it. I suspect he is unlike Trump and not inclined to do it. However I do have an open mind on the issue so will consider evidence.

            • KJT 2.3.1.2.1.1

              He was objectively lying. As Otto showed in the link I included.

              Lying about their economic and social record, misusing statistics, and, and bashing an, "other" are their standard methods, when they are lagging in the polls.

              Muller is totally following the script.

              The occasional original thought, from people who think they are competent to run the country, would be good.

              Didn't you get the sub text in Mullers speech. The lines we will hear endlessly until the election, in various guises. "The girl did a good job with the virus. Now it is time for the serious, men, in National, to sort the economy".

    • Sacha 2.4

      Turns out Judith Collins did the numbers for him. Last weekend, if I heard Harman aright, before the polls.

      Collins merely told Bridges that the numbers were being done against him. Please get the basics right.

  3. mikesh 3

    In offering to refund firms' GST, the National Party appears to misunderstand the GST system. Firms, in theory, don't pay GST since any GST that they do pay is recouped from their customers. It is the customers, ultimately, who pay GST. A better plan would be to abolish GST altogether.

    • bwaghorn 3.1

      Makes a good headline for the nats though, same shit different day

      • mikesh 3.1.1

        Any refund would merely be a subsidy masquerading as a GST refund. Subsidizing small firms which find themselves in difficulties due to COVID-19 may well be a good policy, but there is no reason to suppose that the GST that they have paid is the appropriate amount that that subsidy should take.

        • Sacha 3.1.1.1

          Yes, just corporate welfare and using GST payable as a (misleading) proxy for business scale. Lazy.

        • KJT 3.1.1.2

          Should be in relation to business income tax paid.

          However that would mean the many National supporters businesses, that are tax dodgers, would lose out.

    • Incognito 3.2

      yes

    • Adrian 3.3

      And you only pay GST on profit. The balance is rebated so the strugglers don't get the steam off a turd, typical Nats.

      • Climaction 3.3.1

        You only pay gst on profit? This statement makes you unqualified to have any public comment or position on tax.

        Businesses pay the difference between gst collected and gst paid. Abolishing gst would be the best tax cut for poor people and the best way to reduce business compliance costs. It’ll also help our local councils as all the rates collected will go to them. They won’t have to pay 15% to central government.

        • RedBaronCV 3.3.1.1

          If we abolish GST we can't assume that everyone will automatically reduce their prices by 15% unfortunately.

          • Climaction 3.3.1.1.1

            Which isn’t a valid reason not to do it. I don’t expect councils for instance to lower rates 15%
            companies, however, work out there margins then add gst on top. So some might make supernormal profits. Those in competitive industries would struggle to retain customers if they didn’t.

            there was a lot of teeth gnashing and doom predicting for the less than top bracket earners when gst went up 2.5% Under national round here. Why the reluctance to abolish gst altogether just because someone may profit? Abolishing it now would be the best move the government could make. Give poor consumers 15% more bang for their buck at least.

            National will have to return to power to see calls for gst to be cut to return to the standard

      • mikesh 3.3.2

        On profit plus labour costs and other non GSTaxable costs. With depreciation GST will have been refunded at the time a depreciable asset was purchased.

        • Herodotus 3.3.2.1

          At a macro level GST is paid to the government by those not registered collected by those who are registered. Companies are only collecting it on the behalf of the govt and passing on the payment to the Govt. i.e. people pay the GST, companies do not.

    • Graeme 3.4

      I thought it was a very simplistic sound bite designed to appeal to very simplistic small business owners who see GST as a cost like power or rent.

      Offering a rebate based on the GST you've paid is good for business selling into the NZ market who are doing ok, so probably don't need it, hopeless for the businesses that aren't doing too well, hence not paying much GST because expenses exceed income, and bloody offensive to businesses who export, because export receipts are zero rated for GST.

      Coming from Muller, who's worked for export businesses and I'd expect knows how this works, is just poorly thought out survival politics.

      Can see this blowing up in his face.

      • pat 3.4.1

        Is simply another variation of 'tax cuts'….and fully in line with the narrative National will continue to play.

        Never mind that it doesn't work, it makes the right noises.

        • Graeme 3.4.1.1

          I had a Nat candidate rock into the shop one election saying that National's tax cuts were going to make my business thrive. I replied that it would be nice to be making a profit for tax to be an issue (it was in the middle of the late 90's recession / austerity). The look was priceless

  4. Muttonbird 4

    Muller wants trans-tasman travel to resume as a matter of priority, but Australia has 16 new cases today so this would be a risk to New Zealand and will remain so until Australia can get their new cases to zero.

    The article is by Luke Malpass and Tracey Watkins. Interesting because Watkins was the National Party reporter and head of politics at Stuff but retired/moved-on after the 2017 defeat. Mr Malpass obviously doesn't have the ear of the important people in National's caucus so had to get Watkins in the work the phones for him!

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/121607160/how-todd-muller-took-simon-bridges-by-surprise

    • Hooch 4.1

      I clocked Watkins name on the article too Muttonbird and it piqued my interest. Didn’t she have an article up recently bemoaning the loss of controlling the narrative? Media get two polls up in quick succession facilitating a leadership challenge, nek minnit, wall to wall national party coverage. There’s even a bloody opinion piece on stuff by Paul Goldsmith.

      Trans tasman travel could be a while away given Victoria’s inability to get control of the virus. The states won’t even allow travel between each other. Queensland border might not open till September.

  5. Anne 5

    Nice one Damien Venuto:

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12334259

    “Todd Muller’s MAGA hat is not okay.”

    • Stunned mullet 5.1

      Well for a 50M handout, they have to do something.

      • Incognito 5.1.1

        The NZ Herald got a $50M handout? Pray tell.

        • Stunned mullet 5.1.1.1

          Your comprehension skills are a bit down today anonymous one.

          I didn't say the Herald had received a 50m handout.

          • Incognito 5.1.1.1.1

            What did you say then?

            • Stunned mullet 5.1.1.1.1.1

              Perhaps go and play Revolution 9 backwards for some clues..

              [Your luck is about to run out. Please clarify what you meant @ 5.1 and don’t be a dick today because you can do better too, thanks – Incognito]

              • Incognito

                See my Moderation note @ 11:31 AM.

                • Stunned mullet

                  Ha Ha no thanks OAB…

                  [No worries. Have four days off instead plus another two for calling me OAB – Incognito]

                • The Al1en

                  Pretty clear to me the comment in question is about if the Herald want a 50m handout, they have to do the bidding of the pm and earn it, probably like the accusations thrown from the left when tv3 got bailed out, even though it completely ignores two days of puff pieces on Mulder and kayley.

                  • Incognito

                    The commenter was asked to clarify but chose not to and has been given some time off.

                  • Sacha

                    The only $50m bailout announced so far was mainly for broadcasters rather than print media in any case. Throwaway line.

  6. peterh 6

    There is no way trans travel will start for a very long time as they said in Melbourne today we are finding more because we are testing more. so community cases are most of their cases .also Queensland will not open their border before September. and the NZ public will not want it to until all these issues are cleared up. Best he shuts up about that for a while

    • Muttonbird 6.1

      This. Muller is blurting before thinking. Not a good sign for the Nats.

      He seems your usual, arrogant born-to-rule tory.

  7. Anker 7

    Mr Muller has been so busy developing his plan (not for NZ , but to roll Simon Bridges) that he seems to has missed that the trans Tasman bubble is well under way after Australia invited Jacinda to attend then cabinet meeting and that work is being done on it already on this. It is not his call to make on this in isolation. Actually Australia has a say in this too. Given his haste on this does that mean he would have left the lockdown sooner, or even kept the economy going in a partial lockdown.

    Does Muller not understand gst? Small business owners collect the tax, but get a rebate of the gst they pay.

  8. clare 8

    " The Herald on Sunday has since been told by a reliable source that Muller won the leadership by just one vote, although that may never be known for certain. "

    from Claire Trevett

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12334244

  9. Sacha 9

    Exploring the potential conflicts of interest in Mr Hooton's advocacy of Muller on RNZ (9min), including their Head of News' view of it: https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/mediawatch/audio/2018747708/prominent-pundit-pulls-back-over-muller-link

    • Muttonbird 9.1

      Hooton has deleted his Twitter account? Things are getting serious.

      And:

      I think there is greater focus on me because I am from the political right than on people with similar issues from the political left

      Oh dear, poor Matt, the victim now!

      • Sacha 9.1.1

        He has temporarily deleted his account in the past.

        • Muttonbird 9.1.1.1

          You'd assume if his role with the National Party has been/is being resumed, it'll be more than a temporary deletion?

          Perhaps it is temporary until he has had time to clean up any incriminating evidence.

      • Fifi 9.1.2

        Is it possible that Hooton has a new job? Muller might need a Campaign Manager perhaps.

        • pat 9.1.2.1

          Very possible…one things for sure, Paula Bennet isn't going to have that role.

          • Robert Guyton 9.1.2.1.1

            What has happened to Paula? I rated her for the top-job, but she's been buried…somewhere…for sometime…Paula? Paula?

    • Sacha 9.2

      The same Mediawatch story in text form: https://thespinoff.co.nz/politics/24-05-2020/hooton-is-withdrawing-from-punditry-critics-say-hes-at-least-a-week-late/

      Now that his old friend Todd Muller is National leader, Matthew Hooton is pulling back from political commentary. His critics say he should have done so before the contest kicked off, writes Colin Peacock for RNZ.

      • Incognito 9.2.1

        I did wonder what Matthew’s Magic Numbers were all about …

        It’s pretty legal, isn’t it? But is it Dirty Politics? Nek minit …

        • Sacha 9.2.1.1

          Hey someone had to leak the Curia internal polling to the Nat caucus who were being denied them by Simon's bunch. Wonder where he got them from..?

          • Incognito 9.2.1.1.1

            We’ll never know for certain but my guess is Christopher.

            • Sacha 9.2.1.1.1.1

              Has to be someone who was either trusted with them by the Bridges cabal or was getting them slipped via Farrar, I guess.

    • Gabby 9.3

      Suthers seems to have been comfortable in a ponyboy kinda way.

    • Fireblade 9.4

      Hooton's company website has disappeared as well – Exceltium Corporate & Public Affairs Ltd.

  10. Ed1 10

    It was yet another example of control from the centre; funding for a while was only provided for classrooms that met the large 2 classes to a room model. Many are now being ''renovated"" to put a large divider down the middle so teachers can be heard by their class . . .

    Sadly the primary school closest to me had their renovation approved pre-2017 election – as a ""Normal"" school some new teachers will know what schools to avoid . . .

    • McFlock 10.1

      I can only base this on a half-remembered presentation from an MoE guy early last year (during which I might have been busy or dozed off), but ISTR that was some of the point of the design approach they were going for – it could be adapted for different school needs.

      If you could do group learning or needed lots of space for an art or drama class, open it up. If you need separated class rooms, the adaptation isn't structural.

  11. Dennis Frank 11

    Biden gets tough: "In a recent campaign ad, Joe Biden accused the president of being too soft on China over COVID-19. This decision to criticize Donald Trump on China and subsequent signals that Biden will take a tough approach toward Beijing have made some progressives nervous." https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/05/how-should-biden-handle-china/612052/

    "Writing in The Atlantic, Peter Beinart called Biden’s ad “a jingoistic fantasy” that may put Asian Americans in the crosshairs of racist attacks, “hastening a geopolitical confrontation that threatens progressive goals.” In The New York Times, the Quincy Institute for Responsible Statecraft scholars Rachel Esplin Odell and Stephen Wertheim warned Biden about following Trump into a new cold war with China and argued that the United States should seek to work with Beijing on shared challenges such as pandemics and climate change."

    "Critics of Biden’s China policy are proposing far-reaching U.S.-China cooperation that Chinese President Xi Jinping’s recent diplomatic record suggests is chimerical at best." You bet. Attempts to cooperate with emperors seem sadly lacking in the historical record. My way or the highway.

  12. Stunned mullet 12

    Completely understand what the government is trying to do with repealing the requirement for certain consents and think it's a reasonable thing to do…. however the law of unexpected consequences may come into play.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/121606376/diy-dream-come-true-building-consents-for-low-risk-projects-scrapped

    • Sacha 12.1

      A flood of granny-flat collapses in a decade's time. And backyard slum-lords across poor suburbs in the meantime.

      • weka 12.1.1

        I doubt granny-flats will be exempt, and everything will still need to be built to code.

    • RedBaronCV 12.2

      It's building consents not resource or planning consents? The district plan about the size and placement of buildings will still need to be followed I assume.? I can't see us being able to build 4 car garages with kerb crossings onto a major arterial route under this scheme if we couldn't before.

    • Sacha 13.1

      My script-blocker has blanked that out.

    • Stunned mullet 13.2

      All pretty sound suggestions.

      • pat 13.2.1

        Certainly a move in the right direction

        • Dennis Frank 13.2.1.1

          It is. Surprising that Salmon is aboard (bluegreen). Hefty consensus. Shane & Phil will have to seek advice on how think about it…

          • pat 13.2.1.1.1

            Shane and Phil?

            • Dennis Frank 13.2.1.1.1.1

              Check out who those copies went to…

              • pat

                yes know who it went to but would suggest their input will be minimal on the outcome…i.e.their thoughts will be largely irrelevant to the implementation or not…and frankly its just as well.

    • That is an excellent list of job-rich priorities.

      Of course, only if you Party Vote Green you get most of them.

    • RedBaronCV 13.4

      Not a bad list. Agree with the need to check the priority of shovel ready projects so that we don't build too many more unneeded road tunnels.

      I also though that the projects grouped:

      Restoration- undoing past sins like restoring wetlands

      Repurpose & resilience- electric rail not fossil fuel. 3 waters

      Redirected- future facing projects like individual generation of electricity

      I would add a few other screens too apart from going for a decent geographic spread of jobs and money.

      – Can the investment be easily sold or reversed for gain by an incoming RW government. Individual power generation maybe not others yes

      – does the investment promote the interests of for profit groupings (neo lib) or is a for community/ widespread individual benefit and with decision making at the lowest viable level.

      -Is it progressive or regressive. Better power generation could be tied to the provision of universal basic services – improving lives and reducing community costs rather than high power company salaries and overseas dividends

      -Does it embed a future economic low carbon approach that RW governments would struggle to undo.

      Lastly, I see some of yesterday's ideas never sleep. Fran Wilde and another mayor trying again to amalgamate all the wellington councils. Pity she can't distingush between representation which does not need to be amalgamated and joint projects.

      Banks and other entities trying to us the crisis to shove everything on line or into their preferred models of RW gouging.

  13. joe90 14

    7am tomorrow.

  14. Chris 15

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/300019211/its-been-a-tough-week-for-simon-bridges–but-this-isnt-tiddlywinks

    From since when did Stuff allow party political broadcasts to masquerade as opinion?

    Perhaps Stuff should publish an expose on how National steered NZ out of the GFC on the back of the economic legacy left by the previous Labour-led government? And that traditionally it’s National that sucks money away from the economy into the pockets of the rich, then leaves it to Labour to cop the blame and do all the fixing until the next change of government when the whole cycle starts over?

    The general population needs to know this. National knows about money, but being good at manipulating the economy for the benefit of a few is not the same as being good economic managers. The myth rests on seeing National as a party for the wealthy, "so maybe if I vote for them I'll get rich, too". This thinking needs to be attacked head on and destroyed.

  15. Chris T 16

    Jacinda Ardern realising she forgot to ditch the milk in her fridge makes national news.

    Great to see our intrepid media keeping up the real important stories.

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/lifestyle/news/article.cfm?c_id=6&objectid=12334283

    • I Feel Love 16.1

      and important enough for you to link to, you know it's called "clickbait" for a reason (I couldn't be bothered reading it myself, too busy watching the latest Tory debacle over in the UK).

    • Fireblade 16.2

      The Herald only published the story to trigger right-wing nut jobs. After all, they need something to talk about because the new Nats leader is less charismatic than a block of wood.

  16. observer 17

    Remarkable gaffe from Todd Muller on TV1 news tonight. He calls for NZ to re-open the borders, and specifically to arrivals from China.

    If he thinks that's a vote-winner, he reads the room as badly as Bridges.

  17. David Mac 18

    I'm hoping Herr Muller will appoint Mathew Hooten minister of propaganda. Mathew is of that age that requires a 911 Menoporsche and God knows he's earned it.

  18. David Mac 19

    I went and saw Aussie author Bryce Courtney speak, changed my life.

    He had a big corporate job, key player in a fabulous Sydney ad agency. He got a bonus, went and bought a sick 911. Just after taking delivery, sitting at the lights, he overheard the very type of human he was keen to attract. "Look at the desperate silver-fox in his Menoporsche."

    He resigned and talked to a publisher about the practice book he had been working on: "The Power of One."

    • I Feel Love 19.1

      Great book, and surprisingly really funny, bet he's a hoot to hear talking.

      • David Mac 19.1.1

        Yes, the thought of an orphaned boy befriending a chicken lacks credibility. Bryce made us fall in love with that chook.

        Yes, I'm sure we all left his talk thinking, 'Gee I like that guy.'

        Quality person.

  19. David Mac 20

    Throw a few sunflower seeds about this autumn. Easy.

    Come spring your grandchildren will be amazed by the giant flowers and when they ask why you grew sunflowers you'll be able to say "I did it for you. You remind me of Sunflowers."

  20. Eco Maori 21

    Kia Ora The Am Show.

    That's great local sports being able to start up with health and safety hygiene plans in place.

    Buy New Zealand made is great.

    I read some lines of a person Im quite glad that his opinions are not appropriate in the year 2020.

    Ka kite Ano

  21. Eco Maori 22

    Kia Ora Newshub.

    The tax free payment is a payment design to keep tangata afloat and Aotearoa afloat during these unusual times.

    Congratulations on the new baby.

    Ka kite Ano.

  22. Eco Maori 23

    Kia Ora Te Ao Maori News.

    Funny. I know A few Goldsmiths.

    Ka pai using Pepe mail to teach our tamariki about our environment.

    Ka kite Ano.

  23. Eco Maori 24

    Kia Ora Newshub.

    It great that Aotearoa has invested funds into vax research.

    Jender equality at the Japanese bank is awesome the first Wahine CEO.

    Ka kite Ano.

  24. Eco Maori 25

    Kia Ora Newshub.

    Shocking behaviour.

    Shows how the tech industry has changed the World the Ion Age.

    Ka kite Ano

  25. Eco Maori 26

    Kia Ora Te Ao Maori News.

    Move your butt looks like a great cause rasing funding for bowel cancer.

    Te Papa opening is great there is some amazing things help by the Museum.

    The Hangi pit makes me hungry.

    A 4 day work week will save our environment and give people more time to live a good life.

    Ka kite Ano

  26. Eco Maori 27

    Kia Ora The Am Show.

    Its great that teachers aids are getting paid equally as men based industry’s.

    Papatuanuku is paradise that needs to be respected.

    Great the person giving free dental service for the poor common people.

    Ka kite Ano

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