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Open mike 24/06/2015

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, June 24th, 2015 - 156 comments
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156 comments on “Open mike 24/06/2015 ”

  1. North 1

    Jerry Collins’ email to John Campbell –


    Says heaps about both men.

    Contrast that with Glamour-Queen Key’s embarassingly gauche interface with things rugby. A near perfect of the Pythonesque yob on the Mastercard/Visa TV ad’, crawling up Richie’s arse no less. This one –

    A sickening spectacle it’ll be if the Glamour-Queen turns up at the Apia Test. Behaving for all money like your half-pissed lickarse down the rugby club at 4.30 any winter afternoon. Reflected-Glory-Tory with as much regard for the game as Crosby Textor directs !

    Great to hear that John Campbell will be there !

  2. Puckish Rogue 2

    People like to throw around terms like sociopath etc but I’m seriously starting to think that maybe Colin Craig actually does have a couple of screws loose (i’m sure theres a proper medical term for it)


    and yet its also fascinating watching him crash and burn

    • Save NZ 2.1

      Don’t know why the left is celebrating the demise of Colin Craig.

      He took 3.9% of Nat votes.

      It’s a bit like celebrating the demise of Hone.

      • Puckish Rogue 2.1.1

        The demise of Hone was really funny, the election coverage was brilliant…catching Hone from the start of the night to the end of the night and seeing the look on his face as the chickens came home to roost

        Nearly as funny as watching Tova trying to deal with NZFirst and Winston but having said that I’d suggest that Winston will pick up most of the votes not National

      • lprent 2.1.2

        Don’t know why the left is celebrating the demise of Colin Craig.

        They are? It is more like just watching it aghast at how daft it is. What keeps running through my head is that the ‘morals’ parties always seem to fall apart because while they run the facade of morality, but they don’t practice it very much at a personal or group levels. They look like they need to read some more on evolutionary strategies.

        They just expect others to follow their daft ‘morality’ rules that look more like dominance strategies than anything useful. When something doesn’t follow the public prescriptions, they rend each other like hyenas pruning the pack. The Christian parties of the 90s. This. All look damn similar. Mrs Grundy with private perversions.

        At least the highly concentrated corruptions of the National party caucus (how many ministers so far?) tend to have less of the hypocrisy than the moral conservatives.

        The odd thing in this instance (although I haven’t been following it particularly) is that so far I haven’t seen anything that Craig has actually done that could be illegal. It looks more like a another case of come of our local conservatives showing that they are more interested in dominance games than running a political party.

        • Clemgeopin

          I think Craig is a good guy but quite naive and trusting. Doesn’t seem like he was getting good political advice. I kind of feel a little sorry for him for the way this entire fiasco as unraveled from last year to now.

          I also think that the upstart John Stringer is quite a dipstick. It seems like he was on a mission or sent on a mission to destroy Colin Craig and the Conservative party. He does not seem to understand basic propriety nor to have much wisdom or empathy in the way be behaves.

          Take a look at this part of news from today:

          “Craig predicted the board would consist only of John Stringer, before the week’s end.

          Stringer said he would not be resigning, and he hoped members would stand up fill vacant positions.

          “I think the Conservative Party minus Colin Craig is a much more attractive option to many people.”

          In a statement, he said he was disappointed about the resignations.

          “Holding off and meeting on Saturday would have been better, and I wrote to every board member earlier and encouraged them to do that.”

          Drawing on an earlier controversy where Craig refused to confirm whether the 1969 moon landing occurred, Stringer gave his own space-related analogy of the Conservatives’ situation.

          “Someone on the board had to correct the deliberate inaccuracies Colin Craig was running, and attempt – at least – to try and get a moon separation of the booster rocket (Colin Craig).

          “Unfortunately, most of the astronauts have gone on space walks; Brian, Laurence and I are in an Apollo 13 scenario. Hopefully we can achieve re-entry.”
          Seems like this Stringer character is bad news. Risky for any one to be involved with him. With party members like him, who needs enemies!


          • The Lone Haranguer

            Like many quiet achievers, accidentally thrust into the limelight, Colin Craig incorrectly thinks his 15 minutes of fame isnt over yet.

            I guess if he doesnt make it as a political leader (an increasingly likely outcome) then he can always go on “dancing with the stars”

      • Tracey 2.1.3

        PR isn’t left… he has a lot of left policies on his wishlist but votes National 😉

        So far it’s the right media outlets that won’t let the “scandal” go.

    • mac1 2.2

      This also was a revealing article on the Craigs’ body language.


      • Puckish Rogue 2.2.1

        To be fair i don’t think it needed a body language expert to let us know Colin is shift and lying through his back teeth

        • mac1

          Many people do, it seems, considering the support for liars amongst our public figures. Also, the article points out much more than shiftiness and lying.

          Note the ” Craigs’ “- both Craigs are examined in the article because amongst other things it shows us the discrepancy between public appearance and utterance and private thoughts and feelings of the two. Which, considering the putative subject material, I’d expect.

          There’s a revealing photo of Colin Craig in a Metro article pictured between two trunks with his arms held out wide and open palms displayed. John Key likes to use the same “trust me, I am an honest person…. honest” display.

          And we know about the sucking of air through his back teeth.

    • David H 2.3

      “and yet its also fascinating watching him crash and burn”
      When I was young my Mother, god rest her, used to say it was the “Fascination of the horrible.” You just can’t not watch, it’s like a slow motion car crash.

      • Puckish Rogue 2.3.1

        I agree, to me its funny that if he’d kept his mouth shut during the campaign eg man on the moon he’d probably be an MP

        So I wonder how many of the MPs we have now wouldn’t be in parliament if they said what they really think

        • Draco T Bastard

          So I wonder how many of the MPs we have now wouldn’t be in parliament if they said what they really think

          Nearly every single National Party MP and a fair few Labour Party MPs. We’d have a Greens government with ~80% of parliament.

          As John Banks said:

          If I wear my policy on my sleeve, I won’t get elected.

          And that really does apply to nearly every single right-wing politician.

  3. TheContrarian 3

    Yesterday CR made some fairly stupid comments regarding science – one of which was the science (or science types) were struggling and another was that science had lead us to a civilisational dead-end. To anyone with even a modicum of scientific insight or curiosity these comments are obviously dead wrong but here is a challenge to CR….one I have proposed to him before but lets make it official…

    Here is a partial list of scientific advancements from just 2014 alone:

    This is just but a tiny few of the big science advancements of 2014 which were built on decades of other advancements. Can you tell me CR, seriously, that this A) indicates a civilisation at a dead-end and B) Can you show me a list of advancements to health or otherwise brought to us from the world of, specifically, homeopathy or any other type of non-scientific branch. Lets make this official….

    • Clean_power 3.1

      Anti-science CR is a firm believer in homeopathy. Enough said.

    • Draco T Bastard 3.2

      It’s not science that’s brought us to the present dead-end but politics and the fact that a large portion of people keep believing things against the science. That’s why the Limits to Growth was ignored in the 1970s and is still ignored by many today despite ever more research showing that we should have acted back in the 1970s to go to a steady state economy.

    • TheContrarian 3.3

      Well – I am disappointed CR wouldn’t take me up on this challenge.

      • Clean_power 3.3.1

        You shouldn’t. CR knows he is anti-science and is happy with that. Crystal balls, rabbit tails, talismans, etc .are better than facts and rational arguments after all, aren’t they?

  4. Puckish Rogue 4


    So is mana news NZs version of The Onion?

    • What’s your problem with the report, PR? It seems a reasonable opinion (though a little unaware of the actual legal definition of assault). The photo appears to show Henry in a very aggressive stance, too.

      • Puckish Rogue 4.1.1

        “There are rumours Henry receives free credit from Sky casino in exchange for getting talking points from the prime minister’s office as part of the right wing bias media.”

        I know, i know the VRWC is complicit in everything but does he have anything in the way of proof or evidence or anything other than something he just made up?

        • te reo putake

          “… but does he have anything in the way of proof or evidence or anything other than something he just made up?”

          That’s never bothered you before, PR. Most of your comments would fail that test. Even that one, because you have no evidence he’s “just made it up”. So, meh.

          • Puckish Rogue

            I guess the difference is I don’t claim to be a news editor

            • te reo putake

              Neither does Trinder. He’s the editor of mana news, which contains news stories, opinion and notices.

              But anyway, cool that you consider bullshitting to be fine as long as you don’t have a title. That’s something to for us all to remember whenever you comment here.

        • Tracey

          “but does he have anything in the way of proof or evidence or anything other than something he just made up?”

          just yesterday you suggest this was enough for you?

          “Tracey …
          23 June 2015 at 10:26 am
          It’s not my claim PR, couldn’t you post it here, it’s your assertion? But do understand it needs to be a donot url.

          Your evidence is more than just Cameron Slater said so, right? Cos an inquiry (independent) found he has a tendency to exaggerate his work to make himself seem important?

          Puckish Rogue …
          23 June 2015 at 11:04 am
          Just like every other journalist really”

      • TheContrarian 4.1.2

        Did he not get spat on first? Would make me pretty aggressive.

        • Puckish Rogue

          Well the police reckon that he did and there was enough video cameras around so it’ll come out at court

        • te reo putake

          TC, how can you tell the timeline from a single photograph? it’s alleged he spat at Henry, but even if that happened, there’s no way of knowing from that photo whether it was before or afterwards. The photo shows Henry being aggressive, which in itself, could be an assault.

          • TheContrarian

            That’s why I put a “?” after my comment you knob.

            • te reo putake

              The question mark doesn’t change the tense of your words, TC. You have placed the alleged assault prior to the photo (“did he not get spat on first?”). “first” is what establishes the sequence.

              Isn’t language terrific?

          • TheContrarian

            “how can you tell the timeline from a single photograph?”

            You watch the video and see for yourself – http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11469225

            The still from the Mana News article doesn’t actually capture the moment where the protestor walks directly in front of Henry and appears to shove him forward.

            • te reo putake

              Cheers for the vid, TC. If there was spitting, Henry doesn’t seem to have noticed. And to be fair to Henry, he doesn’t appear to be aggressive either. The finger pointing which looks bad in the photo looks pretty lame in the video.

              • TheContrarian

                Yeah – particularly given that, according to the news article, Henry was there on a completely unrelated matter.

                And Mana News says:
                “Police have enforced assault charges against Diego Chavez although Mr Chavez claims he never physically touched Paul Henry…Video footage of the incident clearly establishes at no stage did Mr Chavez commit assault. Unless staring intensively like a laser at another citizen is considered violent assault as Diego Chavez claims he is innocent beyond reasonable doubt.”

                Which is shown to be completely false by the video.

                • Well, the video doesn’t show any assault by either man. Not so sure if the same can be said for the copper later in the video who seems to be assaulting anybody he can lay his hands on.

                  • TheContrarian

                    I specifically meant:

                    “Diego Chavez although Mr Chavez claims he never physically touched Paul Henry”. Which is utter garbage.

                    And didn’t you just say:
                    “An assault doesn’t actually require physical contact, James.”

                    How do you define assault?

                    • Google it. It’s in the Crimes Act.

                      Not every contact between humans is assault. At the most, this could be said to be a very minor case of obstruction, but assault … nah.

                    • TheContrarian

                      ““The photo shows Henry being aggressive, which in itself, could be an assault.”

                      So in your view Henry looking aggressive could be assault but the protestor physically obstructing Henry and, allegedly, spitting on him isn’t because “Not every contact between humans is assault.”

                      The mind boggles.

                    • Yep, the law’s a funny thing. If the man spat on Henry that is assault. If Henry aggressively poked his finger in the man’s face, that too, is assault. But the video suggests neither thing happened. As for the contact, both men were moving. If there was contact, it was minor, and from the video, it did not bother either man. Henry waved his finger and pointed to where he wanted to go. Then he walked away. Big whoop.

                    • TheContrarian

                      “If Henry aggressively poked his finger in the man’s face, that too, is assault.”

                      Which from the video he didn’t – he “waved his finger and pointed to where he wanted to go.” And he didn’t just walk away – he was chased, pushed and pulled at.

                      Come on man, Henry hasn’t done anything wrong here – put your personal feelings aside and just watch the video. Henry didn’t act in an aggressive fashion in the slightest (which shows more forbearance than I possess) and was harangued and shoved.

                      As for assault – I ain’t a lawyer so can’t say and won’t speculate

                    • I’ve already said that Henry wasn’t aggressive in the video. But neither was the protester. If Henry was “chased, pushed and pulled” and “harangued and shoved” it was later in the sequence and did not involved the guy who was charged. So, unless the alleged assault was not part of the contact captured in the vid and the photo, I’d say the charge won’t stand up in court.

                    • TheContrarian

                      Ah well – seems we are in agreement.

                      To the courts!

                    • Tracey

                      I agree. Didnt we agree that even the threat of assault is a crime, hence not just the pulling of pony tails but also after he definitively knew she didn’t enjoy it he raised his hands as though to do it and made Jaws noises…. also assault.

                      We can’t have it both ways.

                    • McFlock

                      Yeah, but I believe they’re discussing whether either Henry or the protestor even committed any acts which involved force or the threat of force. And came to a consensus of “nothing to see here”.

                      The cops will probably do their usual ass-cover of issuing a warning so the charge doesn’t get tested in court.

    • Hey PR, you obviously missed this item on mana news, which is way more Onion like!


      • Puckish Rogue 4.2.1

        I don’t know much about this guy but is he for real? I mean is it serious?

        • te reo putake

          Apparently so! They should have tried homeopathy first 😉

          • Puckish Rogue

            Thats silly, everyone knows that crystals are where the real healing is

            • marty mars

              mocking indigenous cultural knowledge – so big of you two, such heros you are /sarc

              • McFlock

                If Mana therapy was diluted to homeopathic levels, would the result be the Maori Party?

                • describe Mana therapy?

                  • McFlock

                    Turning up to a Mana AGM, according to the article.

                    • didn’t read it then – why not just say that

                    • McFlock

                      just reread it – fair call.

                      My initial reading took it as an intentionally farcical story – got distracted by the “Nothing was working until she decided to attend the Mana AGM”, maybe.

                      Now I’m just not so sure about the “intentional” bit.

                    • possibly you aren’t the intended audience – sort of like a self selection mechanism

                    • McFlock

                      Before the last election folks were trying to argue that mana was a broad-based party that should appeal to everyone.

                      Now it’s plugging snake-oil to a targeted demographic.
                      Funny how the world works.

                    • jeese are you SURE you read it – the agm was a forum where this happened – is it really so hard to get your head around – anyway don’t let any facts get in the way of your jollity, you seem to be on a roll – or maybe that should be role.

                    • weka

                      come on marty, by now Mana should be running its meetings to conform to NZ’s dominant cultural standards.

                    • McFlock

                      Sure it wasn’t a tented prayer meeting that facilitated this cure with a slap on the head and a “Jeeezuss SAVES!”?
                      Maybe a kiss upon the mummified toe of a long-dead saint?
                      Or maybe weight loss testimonials on late night TV?
                      Hell, with so many miracle cures happening, it’s a wonder that there’s any sickness in the world at all.

                • Puckish Rogue

                  I actually laughed out loud at that one and got some strange looks about it

              • Puckish Rogue

                I’m not mocking indigenous cultural knowledge, I’m knocking the people that believe in it 🙂

              • DoublePlusGood

                There’s a large difference between indigenous cultural knowledge and making shit up then winding it into a cultural context to try and sound less full of shit.

                • funny reading of the report/article – it didn’t say any of what you are saying probably because your interpretation missed the mark but feel free to enlighten me if I’ve got it wrong

              • weka

                “mocking indigenous cultural knowledge – so big of you two, such heros you are /sarc”


                Not sure which is more astounding, the sheer ignorance or the dog in the manger attitude that says if this healing doesn’t fit into my world view it’s bogus.

                Even stupider, the story is easily explainable within Western paradigms, so the ridicule is just out and out bigotry.

                • Hateatea

                  It really annoys me that people are so willing to mock things that they have no knowledge of on the basis that it is ‘cultural’ or ‘indigeneous’ not ‘western science/ medicine’ and pat themselves on the back for their wit.

                  I am reassured that they also mocked Galileo 😉

                  • TheContrarian

                    The Galileo gambit doesn’t actually apply. Galileo actually had evidence and proposed a method of action which fit what was observed.

                    Galileo didn’t just approach the church with a story.

                    • weka

                      Traditional indigenous systems of medicine have evidence and a proposed method of action. The ignorance just gets thicker and thicker.

                    • TheContrarian

                      which traditional system? What’s the method of action?

                      It’s not ignorant to ask for evidence and it’s not bigoted. Ignorance is what you are doing – not asking for evidence and shouting bigotry at those that are

                • Not mocking indigenous cultural knowledge, weka. A fair bit of current medicine has its basis in what can broadly described as that kind of knowledge. The hilarity comes from somebody being healed at a political party meeting by a shyster. Miracle my hairy arse!

                  • weka

                    Miracle is a lay persons term for spontaneous remission. Like I said, ignorant.

                    Calling a Māori healer a shyster IS bigotry, and yes, you are mocking indigenous cultural knoweldge.


                    “The hilarity comes from somebody being healed at a political party meeting by a shyster.”

                    You might want to read up on the history and politics of the Tohunga Suppression Act before you start bandying around ridicule of politics and healing.

                    • TheContrarian

                      Calling a shyster a shyster is not bigotry.

                    • Calling a shyster a shyster is not bigotry. I’m mocking a bullshit article about a bullshit claim about a bullshit miracle cure that never happened. These fraudsters are a blight on the maori people; taking money from the gullible who actually need real help. Let me be really clear … jail the fuckers.

                    • weka

                      The healer in question is barely mentioned. The only way I can see you being able to make a judgement on them being a shyster is from bigotry.

                      But by all means go ahead and explain.

                    • Fuck me, you’re being a tad dense tonight. Here’s the killer para:

                      “Nothing was working until she decided to attend the Mana AGM. After speaking to a Maori Healer Kaylee was able to stand then walk away from her wheel chair and hasnt used it since. Her and whanau are so grateful with this miracle.”

                      B U L L S H I T.

                    • TheContrarian

                      It has nothing to do with bigotry – it’s that there is no method of action, no evidence, is a second hand story that appears on a blog known for making wildly inaccurate claims with nothing in the way of secondary support.

                    • weka

                      TRP, like I said, this is explainable within Western paradigms. You’re bigotry is making you blind.

                      But worse, you are wiling to judge the healer on the almost non-existant descrption of the woman and what the healer did.

                      It has nothing to do with bigotry – it’s that there is no method of action, no evidence, is a second hand story that appears on a blog known for making wildly inaccurate claims with nothing in the way of secondary support.

                      Right, so because the article fails to report detail, you are condemning the healer. This is out and out bigotry.

                      A question for both of you. Why are you not condemning the woman and her husband?

                  • Hateatea

                    Do you know who the healer is? Do you know what their interaction with this woman was? Do you know that money changed hands? On what evidence do you label the healer a ‘shyster’, a very pejorative term?

                    In my life I have seen, heard and been involved in situations that cannot be defined by conventional western thinking but I know that they were true because they were of my own experience.

                    Just as Oriental healing methods, including acupuncture, were dismissed and criticised for many, many years so it is with indigeneous healing and spirituality here.

                    Just because it isn’t within YOUR experience or beliefs, it doesn’t of necessity mean that it doesn’t meet the needs of others.

                • TheContrarian

                  Weka, Do you believe in Christian faith healing?

                  • weka

                    What do you mean by ‘believe in’?

                    • TheContrarian

                      do you think Christians faith healers are able to heal people in the same way as this Maori healer?

                    • weka

                      Hard to say given I have no idea how this Māori healer worked. Or what you mean by Christian faith healer.

                    • TheContrarian

                      So you have no idea how this Maori faith healer worked but are ready to believe it? To you believe that Christian faith healers, like Jesus, who healed a leper in the bible, can heal also?

                    • weka

                      “So you have no idea how this Maori faith healer worked but are ready to believe it?”

                      I have no idea if the story is true or not. How could I? My comments in this thread have been about the ignorance and cultural bigotry of some of the comments.

                      “To you believe that Christian faith healers, like Jesus, who healed a leper in the bible, can heal also?”

                      I don’t know the bible story. I think what you are asking about is very complex. Do healings happen that defy rational explanation? Yes, of course. Science isn’t omniscient. The issue isn’t whether these things happen, but whether they can be made to happen intentionally and to what extent belief is important in that.

                      And if belief is important then so is how the story is told. Here, take this pill it will make you feel better is the version used by Western medicine. I’ve known people to start taking pharmaceutical drugs and have imediate changes in their health that defy the usual explanations of action that you claim is vital (eg when drugs are supposed to weeks to have an effect).

                      It’s the bigotry displayed in this thread that is holding back Western medicine, and it’s also incredibly culturally rude.

                    • TheContrarian

                      Fuck off with your culturally rude. Anyone claiming to have magical healing powers deserves the same level of scepticism.

                      Holding back western medicine? Western medicine is doing pretty well.

                    • weka

                      ‘magical powers’ lolz.

                      That’s called superstition (calling something magical because you don’t understand it).

                • TheContrarian

                  And no – it isn’t bigotry. Rubbishing magical thinking is not bigotry.

                  • weka

                    With that dog in the manger attitude I assume you would prefer the woman to remain in a wheelchair.

                    • TheContrarian

                      No I’d prefer evidence

                    • weka

                      Right, so in the absence of evidence it’s wrong that this woman is walking now.

                    • TheContrarian

                      How do you know this woman is walking now? All you have is a single blog post making claims.

                      It isn’t “wrong” it is that there is no evidence except hearsay. There isn’t sufficient to evidence to make a judgement and extraordinary claims make extraordinary evidence.

                      Being gullible or believing something of which there is scant or no evidence isn’t a trait you should be proud of

                    • weka

                      There is a photo of the woman walking, duh.

                      “There isn’t sufficient to evidence to make a judgement and extraordinary claims make extraordinary evidence.”

                      Wow, you’re finally getting it. There’s no evidence to make a judgement either way. Yet you were perfectly happy to make a judgement. That’s the bigotry.

                    • Bullshit. I made the judgement on the lies in the story. Jail the fucker who conned this woman. If she’s in on it, jail her too. I fucken hate people who prey on the ignorance of the poor and the naive. I’ve seen it too many times not to call it what it is. And what it is is bullshit.

                    • TheContrarian

                      Yes because there is a lack of evidence so I am more than happy to make a judgement that it is false until such a time as suffice to evidence is presented. Otherwise it is merely hearsay.

                      A photo of her walking. That’s it? Is she walking now? Could she walk briefly before? Was she in pain? Was she on any other medication? Is she still using a wheelchair? And it is not bigotry to demand evidence before being convinced a faith healer cured someone

                      A single blog story isn’t evidence of anything.

                    • weka

                      Sure, that’s what I’ve been saying all along. Your belief system enables you to be a bigot. And an irrational one at that. You’ve made a decision in the absence of evidence, that shit is what gives science a bad name 🙁

                      I’m pretty sure that what you are doing is judging the story as false on no evidence simply because you think that it’s not possible for someone who’s been in a wheelchair for 3 months to get up and walk. Within Western paradigms, this is explanable, but instead of being open and enquiring to see if such an event is possible, you’ve gone straight to a conclusion based on your beliefs. That’s bad enough within Western cultures, but when you apply it to indigenous cultures it IS cultural bigotry as well.

                    • TheContrarian

                      yea, in the absence of evidence it is safe to not believe something until such a time as evidence is presented. I am am open and enquiring which is why I asked “could she walk before? Is she on other medications? Is she usin her wheelchair now? Is she still walking?” That’s enquiring you fucking tit.

                      If I said there was a unicorn in my lounge is it irrational to suspend your belief?

                    • weka

                      Bullshit. I made the judgement on the lies in the story. Jail the fucker who conned this woman. If she’s in on it, jail her too. I fucken hate people who prey on the ignorance of the poor and the naive. I’ve seen it too many times not to call it what it is. And what it is is bullshit.

                      Like TC, you’re making heft judgements based on no evidence. You’re perfectly entitled to do that of course, but expect to be called out on it.

                    • I’m making judgements on what is written in the story. It’s bullshit. Obviously.

                    • TheContrarian

                      When being presented with something of which no evidence is presented the default position is disbelief – not the other way round

                    • weka

                      “yea, in the absence of evidence it is safe to not believe something until such a time as evidence is presented.”

                      Of course, if that’s how you want to work in the world that’s fine, just acknowledge that it’s a belief. But I think you are being a tad disingenuous. It’s not suspension of belief, it’s active disbelief (which comes from your preconceived notions about what is possible in the world, and those I am afraid are based in ignorance).

                      “If I said there was a unicorn in my lounge is it irrational to suspend your belief?”

                      Lots of people have unicorns in their lounge.


                      See how this might work?

                    • weka

                      “When being presented with something of which no evidence is presented the default position is disbelief – not the other way round”

                      You seem to think there are only two options, belief and disbelief. There is at least one more (which is the one I am doing).

                      But thanks for making it clearer that for you this is primarily an issue of belief

                    • TheContrarian

                      So you work in the world where anything anyone tells you is real until proved otherwise? Must get awfully confusing.

                      So far you have reversed the burden of proof, confused skepticism with bigotry and said it is irrational to require evidence before accepting something as fact. Not a good start

                    • weka

                      So you work in the world where anything anyone tells you is real until proved otherwise? Must get awfully confusing.

                      No, I don’t. And I think now you are not reading what I am writing, or at least not taking the time to think about what I am saying.

                      “So far you have reversed the burden of proof”

                      No, I haven’t. I’ve said that in a short piece on a political blog there isn’t enough information to know really happened. I make the same analytical judgement of information all the time (including on ts).

                      “confused skepticism with bigotry”

                      again no. I have no problem with scepticism. What bothers me is the hypocritical claim that the scepticism is based on rationality, when it’s patently not, at the same time as claiming cultural superiortity based on a rational world view, and all in the context of extreme ignorance of what healing actually is even from a Western perspective.

                      When you prejudge something based on your own belief system rather than evidence, that prejudice is bigotry.

                      “and said it is irrational to require evidence before accepting something as fact.”

                      and again no. Reread what I am saying.

                    • weka

                      Someone I know told me that TRP is really a right winger and loves John Key.

                      I’ll be putting up a blogpost about that later, and then everyone can make their own judgements about him.

                    • lprent []

                      Nope. I am a capitalistic free-market militaristic right winger (and I’m not joking).

                      Unfortunately I also have a brain. (It would be so much easier if I had the brain of a sewer rat or the ethics of David Garret). So I am also a social democrat…

                      It is a question of balance. And time-scales about what is the right thing at the right time.

                    • weka

                      Anyhoo, I’m off to have a bath to relieve the pain in my body. No-one’s done a double blind RCT* on that, so we have no way of knowing of it really does relieve the pain in my body or if I just believe it does.

                      *yes, that was me taking the piss.

                    • TheContrarian

                      The burden of proof is on the claimant and asking that person for proof is not bigotry and it isn’t bigotry to disbelieve it without proof because my skepticism isn’t around the person culture or background but by the fact, again, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. ALL faith healers should meet the same requirement for proof – regardless of faith, culture or background.

                      “When you prejudge something based on your own belief system rather than evidence, that prejudice is bigotry.”

                      I prejudge based on the lack of evidence – not belief – EVIDENCE.

                      “weka …
                      24 June 2015 at 7:47 pm
                      Someone I know told me that TRP is really a right winger and loves John Key.

                      I’ll be putting up a blogpost about that later, and then everyone can make their own judgements about him.

                      And I’ll present evidence that it is false. See how it works

  5. James 5

    “The photo shows Henry being aggressive, which in itself, could be an assault.”


    How exactly? If Henry didn’t touch or spit on him (which he is doing neither in the picture) – are you now saying looking aggressive could not be assault ?

  6. Charles 6

    Over on The Daily Blog there is a new “How not to be an Asshole” podcast with professional fighter/boxer/MMA Israel Adesanya (last name pronounced… AdesONya)


    So what’s in it?

    Unless you’re a fan of Sport Fighting, most of it will roll over your head. There’s lots of sport commentary, technique discussion and name dropping, and for people not familiar with it, the intensity of the sport is unavoidably understated by the talk format.

    Besides all the sporty stuff there are interesting parts for a wider audience at 20mins, 45mins, and about every ten minutes from there onward: Where Adesanya is (gently) challenged on his outlook because he neglects acknowledgement of his own confidence and ability; and more importantly, is later is questioned about how it is he found and maintained his early confidence in a place like NZ – and it wasn’t fighting.

    He is a very confident person, Adesanya, and his manner of speaking reflects that. Just to put that into perspective, towards the end they talk about Joe Rogan, who some of you will be more familiar with as a radio show/comedian/New Age Explorer, but who was also a Sport Fighter in his early days. In one of Joe’s many podcasts in which he talks about those times (and he was really very good at it), he said that in the end he had to stop fighting because the intensity of the sport, the constant readiness required, the strain of knowing someone was going to try to beat you to shit every week, it destroyed his nerves. So that’s how confident Isreal Adesanya is, above Joe Rogan, and Joe Rogan is pretty damn confident.

    So take a look, it’s worth the hour of listening time.

    Personal opinion on the podcast itself follows…

    A while back I said I wasn’t going to listen to any more of these podcasts, despite the entertainment factor, and skill of the hosts. This one has won me back. No doubt they won’t be sitting at home thinking, “Yes! Now we’ve finally made it, Charles is listening again…”.

    The reason is at around the 20min mark in this episode: One of the hosts pushes the guest to expand his mind a bit, which is remarkable, because clearly the host is a big fan of the guy. To my mind, a person can be an “asshole” by having a small mind, denying the existence of alternate realities and holding tightly to their own perspective at the cost of everything “smaller than himself”, but also, a person can be an asshole by withholding their view when they know they should say something. That person makes an asshole of themselves, by disrespecting their own reality.

    That final attitude was becoming prevalent in the method these guys were using. They were going full-out listening to their hosts to avoid their own “assholean traits” (we all have them); letting their guests speak without interrupting, making the guest comfortable, encouraging the conversation down complimentary routes rather than just a linear issue-by-issue format; doing some excellent interviews, which is great, because that doesn’t happen in the MSM anymore; but they were also holding back, punctuated by awkward silences, poignant pauses and gasps of air, which was wrong and threatened to stall their progress into the art of interviewing.

    It was pretty clear from early episodes that the life experience of these hosts is wide-ranging and complex, but they weren’t pushing themselves, or their guests, to their obvious extensive capability. Just like a good teacher learns from their students, a good host should be as challenged as the guest. I didn’t want them to hammer their guests with opinion, like they were the Mike Hoskings of Onehunga, but my ears thought they should be “more present” to really extract the full importance of the relationship between Host and Guest.

    Some of it may have been my own expectations. Since their interpersonal skills were already so amazingly high before they started, better than mine, I assumed that they would glide through it all like they were old pros, when in reality they were new it themselves, and that confused me a bit. They’re free to do as they please and follow their own course, and should, but since I said publicly I was giving up on them, I’ll also say publicly that I’m giving them another go, and why, and see where they go from here.

    (People may wonder: Why not post this on TDB or Soundcloud? 1) To promote a wider audience of the “How not to be an Asshole” podcasts – they’re good stuff and if you’re interested in media/communication skills, light-years ahead of MSM. [I have also enjoyed the background soundtrack of the washing machine in the last two episodes. My machine sounds the same.] 2) I really hate having my comments moderated, purposely misconstrued or edited every single time I want to say something that may not even be very interesting. If people only want me to say something they agree with, they should just say what they want themselves. However, TDB do have good articles.)

    • Tracey 6.1

      “This one has won me back. No doubt they won’t be sitting at home thinking, “Yes! Now we’ve finally made it, Charles is listening again…”.

      Still enjoying your contributions. Read your long one yesterday but had no chance to comment.

      Carry on sir!

  7. Chooky 7

    Go Green Parties around the World!….and now in the USA…

    ‘Jill Stein announces 2016 Green Party presidential bid’


    The most successful female presidential candidate in US history is making another White House bid. Dr. Jill Stein announced she would seek the Green Party nomination, joining sixteen other contenders in the 2016 presidential race so far.

    The third woman to join the campaign, Stein made the official announcement on Tuesday, at the National Press Club in Washington, DC. Her platform, dubbed “The Power to the People Plan,” seeks to answer the “economic, social, and ecological crises brought on by both corporate political parties,” and “empowers the American people to fix our broken political system and make real the promise of democracy,” Stein’s campaign said in a statement.

    “The Power to the People Plan creates deep system change, moving from the greed and exploitation of corporate capitalism to a human-centered economy that puts people, planet and peace over profit,” said Stein, adding “The power to create this new world is not in our hopes, it’s not in our dreams – it’s in our hands.”…

  8. Puckish Rogue 8

    I know you all think hes the devil but you’ll probably want to read this:


  9. Colonial Rawshark 9

    Dmitry Orlov describes the illusion of the USA’s “economic recovery”


  10. Clemgeopin 10

    Tory feminism :

    “it made me think about what Tory feminism was, which fed into the standup in my show War Donkey in Edinburgh in the summer of 2012. This is how it went:

    “I’ve been trying to work out what a Tory feminist is, because I keep seeing photographs of female Tory MPs in the newspapers, wearing T-shirts with ‘This is what a feminist looks like’ on them. What, like a T-shirt? How can a T-shirt look like a feminist? A T-shirt looks like a T-shirt, doesn’t it? It should say, ‘This is what a T-shirt with “This is what a feminist looks like” written on it looks like.’

    That’s what it says on the front, anyway, of the Tory feminists’ T-shirts that they’re all wearing now. And on the back it says, ‘Not really, I’m a Tory, you gullible dick.’

    Then underneath that it says, ‘I axed the health in pregnancy grant. I closed Sure Start centres.’ That one’s got a smiley face next to it. ‘I cut child benefit and slashed tax credits. I shut down shelters for battered wives and children. I cut rape counselling and legal aid.’ Winking face.

    ‘I cut funding for CCTV cameras and street lighting, making women much more vulnerable. I closed down all 23 specialist domestic violence courts. I cut benefits for disabled children.’ Sad face with sunglasses on. ‘I tried to amend the abortion act so that women receive one-to-one abortion counselling from the pope before they go ahead with it.’ Winking face with tongue out. The back is much longer than the front, by the way. It’s a tailcoat, basically. They’re wearing tailcoats.”

    Read the full,clever & funny article here:

    • Tracey 10.1

      someone posted about this yesterday Clem… doesn’t hurt to have it for those who missed it though

  11. Skinny 11

    Here is another good reason why I refer to the Maori Party as the ‘Tory-Maori Party’ Just when some people were prepared to give Flavell the benefit of doubt over his brain fade. He comes out in support of swamp Kauri exports.

    Let me guess some where in cyberspace there will be a photo of Flavell, Judith Collins & her husband Mr Tung standing around a Kauri boardroom table at Oravida’s head office.

    Flavell will just shrug any claims of dodgy dealings as ‘a brain fade.’

  12. Clemgeopin 12

    This nasty and stupid government killed the Adult Community Education Night Classes to save $13 million dollars per year.

    NOW, they are trying to slowly and steadily kill the KIWI SAVER SCHEME!

    After last month’s budget changes, there is a 50% drop in enrollment!

    ANZ Wealth managing director John Body said the removal of kick-start had hit confidence in the retirement savings scheme. An ANZ survey found that 62 per cent of those who had not joined the scheme were now less likely to, while 52 per cent were concerned the Government would make further changes to the scheme.

    “Normally we’d be surprised if our numbers changed by 5 per cent, month by month. Clearly the 50 per cent drop off you have to look to the removal of the kickstart,” Body said. “Our investors consistently tell us the one thing that removes their faith in Kiwisaver as a retirement solution is the continued changes to it.”

    The day after the Budget, ANZ chief economist Cameron Bagrie said without the kickstart payment he would not have bothered to sign his own children up to the scheme.

    READ MORE: Axing bonus removes incentive, economist says

    Although National axed the kickstart payment, English said the other aspects of the scheme, including accessing the Government’s annual contribution of up to $521, provided they contribute $1042 during the year.

    The removal of the kickstart payments is expected to save the Treasury around $125 million a year.

    Labour finance spokesman Grant Robertson has said the party would reinstate the kickstart payments in government.

    “This is the sad inevitability of the change and maybe at a slightly higher rate that would have been expected,” Robertson said.

    “The real damage here is to the savings culture of New Zealand. We have traditionally been very poor savers as a country. KiwiSaver was making a big difference to that. That’s the real tragedy here, that we are going backwards in terms of destroying the savings culture that’s been built up.”

    Established in 2007, initial projections predicted that by now around 700,000 Kiwis would be signed up to the scheme, however around 2.5 million have done so.

    Read more here:

  13. Morrissey 13

    Defence: Russia to boost its military presence in Central and South America

    Russia has announced plans to deploy heavy weaponry in several Central and South American nations.

    Officials say they want to calm concerns among OAS allies who feel threatened by a resurgent USA.

    ​Russian Minister of Defence Sergei Shoigu commented on the decision on a visit to the Mexican capital, Mexico City: “Unfortunately we had to spend time talking about the USA’s recent attempts to turn back the clock in what it calls its ‘back yard’, especially here in the Central America region.“​

    Officials in Washington have been quoted as saying the decision is the most aggressive action by Russia since the end of the Cold War.

    “We are not talking about entering into a new Cold War type of arms race, we are not trying collectively to match Obama, I mean, tank by tank or helicopter by helicopter in the Caribbean sea region either,” said Mexican Defence Secretary Salvador Cienfuegos Zepeda.

    Equipment will be sited in Honduras, Nicaragua and Panama as well as Ecuador, Colombia and Venezuela. Some will also be based in Brazil.

    The OAS has stepped up exercises in the region in the wake of the USA’s destruction of Iraq and Afghanistan, and its continual aggression in Africa and the Middle East.


    • Colonial Rawshark 13.1

      lolz damn those Russians moving their country closer and closer to those NATO bases!

  14. maui 14

    The poor die while the west does it’s best to keep ramping up heat in the atmosphere.

  15. McFlock 15

    $4.6 million fraud because he felt underpaid.

    Five years, down from eight because of “guilty pleas, remorse, and limited good character”. No non-parole period. Remorse my arse – $300k in reparations barely covers a single year of his offending. But he sold his bach – oh, the hardship…

    • Colonial Rawshark 15.1

      One time list candidate for ACT huh

      • McFlock 15.1.1

        lol I missed that bit.

        Fuck, they need to rename themselves the Association of Criminals and Tax-evaders.

      • Skinny 15.1.2

        So he felt stiffed by not being paid the market rate so wounded the taxpayer. I would assume the Taxpayer Union revoked his membership immediately?

  16. Clemgeopin 16

    Re Flavell, Peters challenges Hansard alteration!

    [Clip also includes Winston’s comment about Colin Craig & the conservatives]

    New Zealand First leader Winston Peters is calling for the resignation of Te Ururoa Flavell as Minister in charge of Maori Television for altering the official parliamentary record of his statements about alleged interference at the channel.

    Mr Peters says the video record shows Mr Flavell admitted he was aware of interaction between his staff and Maori Television over a planned Queen’s Birthday debate on the whanau ora policy.

    But when the Hansard draft came back from his office, it was changed to say he was not aware.


  17. Philip Ferguson 17

    For years workplace fatalities were faceless numbers. The real human sorrow barely rated a mention in the media until the disaster at Pike River. The scale of the tragedy in that mine gave a glimpse of what was wrong at many workplaces. The site was not fully unionised, the workers were not in charge of health and safety, and profits were put before safety. No one has been held to account for those 29 deaths. The company, the bosses, the governments – Labour and National – that blocked union rights and oversaw the demise of a culture of workplace safety, were all complicit.pike river

    Worksafe’s official figures record an annual average of 75 people dying each year on the job in New Zealand and one in ten injured at work. A further 600-900 die from. . .

    full at: https://rdln.wordpress.com/2015/06/22/time-for-workers-to-take-charge-of-health-and-safety/

    Pike River collection (“the murders at Pike River”) at: https://rdln.wordpress.com/2014/12/22/the-murders-at-pike-river/


  18. Philip Ferguson 18

    Women’s work under capitalism (from 1998), but opening sounds very familiar indeed:

    “The changes to benefits outlined in the May 15 budget highlight the continued importance of the oppression of women under capitalism. From next February domestic purposes’ and widows’ beneficiaries will be work-tested. Those with children older than 14 will be expected to look for full-time work; beneficiaries with children aged six to 13 will have to seek part-time work; and those with children younger than six will have to visit Income Support for a yearly planning interview.

    “The implication is clear: as capitalism. . .”

    Full at: https://rdln.wordpress.com/2015/06/24/from-the-vaults-womens-work-under-capitalism-1998/


    • RedBaronCV 18.1

      Maybe it’s time we home tested a few blokes to see how much housework & childcare they are doing with a view to raising the tax/child support rate on the ones who fail.

  19. Latest Roy Morgan out. 4.5% drop in support for National. Judith Collins will be well pleased!


  20. Ffloyd 21

    That’s weird! I was just reading somewhere this morning that she had declined the job.

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  • New Ambassador to Russia announced
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