If you thought the Auckland property bubble was bad now…

81 comments on “If you thought the Auckland property bubble was bad now… ”

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1. Ad 1

   24 June 2015 at 7:46 am

   I was talking to the BNZ economist last night and he pointed out the disparity between the Auckland economy supported by property investment, and the remainder of the NZ economy supported by dairy and other food&beverage sectors, are currently tracking away from each other (with outliers like Hawkes Bay and Queenstown-Lakes).

   Essentially the Auckland property boom is shielding Auckland from the dairy downturn.

   Real question is: will the recent Reserve Bank and central government interventions really cool Auckland sufficiently to soften the inevitable stall in property price increases?
   • Save NZ 1.1

     24 June 2015 at 9:56 am

     Don’t you mean shielding the banks from the dairy downturn?
     • Ad 1.1.1

       24 June 2015 at 10:11 am

       Tony Alexander is actively advising the BNZ to rapidly decrease its loans to dairy farms and to closely monitor those loans already provided.

       On National Radio this morning a farmer suffering from depression said that most of the farmers he knows will be seeking credit from the bank this financial year just to get through.

       The other way of looking at the post above is: thank God for high Chinese property capital coming in to save our economy, by propping up Auckland’s economy.
       • Colonial Rawshark 1.1.1.1

         24 June 2015 at 11:34 am

         Tony Alexander is actively advising the BNZ to rapidly decrease its loans to dairy farms and to closely monitor those loans already provided.

         They can decrease their amount of new lending, but that is small fry compared to the existing stock of dairy farm loans that they have. The other thing is that BNZ is not a big farmer lender anyways.
   • tracey 1.2

     24 June 2015 at 12:53 pm

     I know that you are talking about a private conversation but in terms of media “go to” economists, I would rather see our Universities used more for a viewpoint rather than people being paid by a bank etc…

     At least we know they are being paid by a bank, so that is one upside.

     My concern, which has been amplified this week by the news that scientists are indeed feeling gagged, is that as our Universities/Polytechnics rely more and more on business donations/partnerships, so the corresponding obligation (Education Act) to be the conscience and critic of society is fading.

     There is no question, from my own experience, that first and foremost is the requirement for EFTS ($$ for full time equivalent students), is impacting negatively on student well-being, ability to earn the degree they enrol for and staff training, workloads etc, My institution is undergoing change and it is implementing it rapidly to ensure they keep their EFTs… as a result support and training for staff is sidelined. Workloads have risen hugely for the same remuneration. All obvious downsides to the singular economic imperative.
     • Ad 1.2.1

       24 June 2015 at 1:28 pm

       Any particular economist you would prefer to hear from?
       • tracey 1.2.1.1

         24 June 2015 at 1:46 pm

         I just told you my opinion on where the pool of economist interviewed could come from.
       • Draco T Bastard 1.2.1.2

         25 June 2015 at 10:40 am

         The universities as being non-biased. Of course, that’s not likely to happen as the new corporate MSM only ever seem to talk to other corporations as if those corporations are the font of all wisdom.
2. Nate 2

   24 June 2015 at 8:11 am

   What about if they bought up the land in Chch that’s currently sitting around… We could have a Chinese-focussed city down here… designed solely to funnel money back there… Not quite sure I want that here TBH.
3. vto 3

   24 June 2015 at 8:21 am

   Silly silly us ….

   high capital values assist nobody except the banks
4. vto 4

   24 June 2015 at 8:23 am

   Imagine, if you can, how much richer we would be if our capital values were lower…

   Might sound silly but it is exactly the truth (though it will likely take a lot of thinking for some to realise)
5. Save NZ 5

   24 June 2015 at 9:05 am

   In London where they allowed foreigners to buy up property with no limitations, it now costs upwards of 250 pounds for a room!

   Soon Kiwis will not be able to afford to live in Auckland as well, unless something is done to stop migrants and overseas investors who have never paid tax here, buying up our property with overseas money.

   http://www.workgateways.com/working-in-the-uk/cost-of-living

   Interestingly the cost of food for 2 people in London is 60 pounds per week.

   Kiwis who are producing the food are paying a lot more than that.

   Screwed on all counts in NZ.

   And look how low the wages are here!

   The only thing decreasing in NZ is the price of cars, so no wonder our motorways are grid locked and Ports of Auckland need to steal our harbour to get more into Auckland.

   The solution rather than cheap public transport seems to be more road charges so only wealthy people can afford to drive.
6. sabine 6

   24 June 2015 at 9:12 am

   they are not only buying properities they are buying businesses. En masse.
   Maybe it is time to speak about this?

   Auckland will never be cheap again. those that have previously bought in AKL or inherited should hold on to their property as not matte how much they get it will not be enough to buy elsewhere in AKL.

   but have a good look as the businesses around you disapear and become chinese owned, with only chinese working there, and these are often not Kiwi of chinesse decendency but Students on a Work Visa.
   • Save NZ 6.1

     24 June 2015 at 9:31 am

     Yep, they are buying businesses to get citizenship.

     Unlike in OZ where you need to employ 2 NZ citizens and make a profit over $50k for 5 years to gain OZ citizenship.

     In NZ you can probably lose money in a business so claim against the taxpayer and still get residency. You can then bring more immigrants in to work for you.

     Cos that’s how good our ‘politicians’ are at business, NOT.

     Ever wondered how that bakery in prime spot costing $100k in rental per annum that appears empty of customers most of the time is still operating? Simple it is just an immigration scam.

     Win Win.

     I have to say I am not against migration but how we have set up NZ citizenship is laughable.

     Migrants are routing the system and it is completely legal!

     Why not?
     • Anno1701 6.1.1

       24 June 2015 at 9:57 am

       This is the reason there are half a dozen $2 shops in your local mall, all selling EXACTLY the same crap nobody wants

       Oh dont forget the money laundering to

       Cash business with stock that NEVER goes off/expires , perfect for washing those dirty dollars or what !
     • Mike the Savage One 6.1.2

       24 June 2015 at 10:22 am

       Living in Auckland, I have seen on many building sites, an increasing number of migrant workers, some from China, some from the Philippines, some from other places. I see car- and van-loads of Mainland Chinese workers, and some of them look like they have just been brought in, to offer the cheap labour, that some “investors” want, to build homes, to sell on a highly priced market.

       Even painter gangs and so come from overseas, to work not only in Christchurch, but also increasingly in construction and maintenance in Auckland. They are happy to work for whatever they get offered, while housed in container homes or other cheap accommodation.

       Not only Kiwirail is allowing such workers in, at low pay, to maintain or repair certain “stock”, there are other operators in other industries, where this is now happening. I suppose some of that we can contribute to conditions in the Free Trade Agreement with Mainland China, so often so much “celebrated”.

       It seems to be done in ways, that are deemed totally “legal”. But I bet there are other things happening that go under the radar.
       • Ad 6.1.2.1

         24 June 2015 at 12:46 pm

         You also see squadloads of immigrants rebuilding Christchurch.
         Clearly a takeover. You’re not from Texas are you?
         • Mike the Savage One 6.1.2.1.1

           25 June 2015 at 12:01 am

           My concern is about migrant labour being exploited and thus local wages and salaries here being undermined and kept at very low levels, and also that other labour laws are being broken.

           It happens in farming, in horticulture, the hospitality industry, in rest homes and also increasingly in construction.

           There are always willing workers from other places, who work for pay rates that are in some cases even well beneath the minimum wage. How can anyone be indifferent about this, I wonder?
       • linda 6.1.2.2

         25 June 2015 at 6:49 am

         the mac mansion building gangs are all Asian there only ones building residential homes and there a lot of fiddling going on with builder registration it means nothing here today gone tomorrow . the locals are sidelined Auckland is a place where if main income is derived locally you are sidelined only those with foreign incomes can live
7. Sable 7

   24 June 2015 at 9:32 am

   I was in China about one year ago. Property there, even a fairly ordinary flat not even in a major city is about $350-400K NZD. Its small wonder they are looking elsewhere….

   We can thank our shit useless government for letting this happen…..
   • Save NZ 7.1

     24 June 2015 at 9:54 am

     Also apparently the Chinese will not rent them out either, they just sit there unused.

     In the UK the squatters laws were bought in, because 90% of land was owned by one person and just sitting vacant.

     Something else we have to look forward to. Ownership of our city by an elite who don’t even live here. (I guess that is already happened with commercial property).

     Now residential and rural property is are up for sale! Soon like the experiences of London, locals will be priced out.

     A property/farm crash will actually help overseas buyers! Buy here even cheaper.
8. Mike the Savage One 8

   24 June 2015 at 10:14 am

   The housing crisis in Auckland is a looming disaster. Yes, those who think it is bad already, wait and see what is coming.

   Following the Proposed Auckland Unitary Plan hearings, and having read what Council is proposing to provide for more “affordable housing” makes for very sombre, depressing reading. There seems to be little in the way of answers they have, and even that is stiffly opposed by some large, vested interest submitters, who rather want to make money on the market (that is developers, construction companies and land holders, and the likes).

   We have seen a headless chicken called Nick (the Dick) Smith hire a bus to show media persons around Auckland, talking about developing or selling land for housing that central government does not even own, and also offering very contradictory figures on Special Housing Areas, on consents and so far built homes. It is all a total shambles, and the central government, keen on leaving the increasing demand to be met by development and construction by the players on “the market”, has even fewer answers than Council.

   The plan to introduce account details and IRD number requirements for overseas buyers, and to enforce a bright line policy on re-selling is deemed to have little impact, as most commentators with some insight into matters have stated.

   So if we continue to get more overseas, and in this case Mainland Chinese “investors”, to come here, and spend up with easy money they may have to their avail, then forget it, dear ordinary Kiwis, you can settle for renting the rest of your lives, as prices will hit levels so far unseen and unheard of. There is always a caravan to hire, and live in, I suppose, or to move into mum’s and dad’s garage out the back, if no shed is able to be converted.

   New Zealand, especially Auckland with it’s disastrous housing situation, where there seems to be little planning and no controls, is set to be sold out from under your own feet, at increasing levels.

   Welcome to a “brighter future” in the “rock star economy”, now mainly “supported” by a residential real estate market that is a “global market” few Kiwis can actually participate in.
9. Ad 9

   24 June 2015 at 10:28 am

   Twyford could do with a reminder that over 23% of Aucklanders are “Asian” according to the most recent census.
   Asians are us. No matter who “Asians” vote for.

   We can’t turn into moist weak-wristed lefties begging in one article yesterday for more refugees, then the next day turn into hard bastards complaining about another Asian Invasion, without doing xenophobic moral yoga.

   Chinese and Indian investors have brought spectacular economic dynamism, massive numbers of tourists and students, and huge cultural energy to Auckland over the last three decades. It’s overwhelmingly a good thing.
   • Charles 9.1

     24 June 2015 at 11:02 am

     I don’t think Twyford comments are obviously xenophobic.

     “Asians” are people, and investors are people, too, but overseas investors who don’t live here and are not citizens are not voters. Choosing to get on plane at a minimal cost, with certainty it will arrive at Auckland airport, is different to fleeing your home on a dodgy boat, paying with everything you have, that may not arrive anywhere. Immigrants and refugees may both be groups of people who live here, but wealthy immigrants are not refugees in a social, personal or financial sense – the difference in power and resource are massive.

     A lion can be called a cat, a domestic cat is a cat, but a Lion is not a domestic cat.
     Progressive change is change, but not all change is progressive.
     • Ad 9.1.1

       24 June 2015 at 12:42 pm

       Since you went there, you get to now draw the line between the kind of Asian you want, and the kind you don’t want. I’m sure I don’t need to remind anyone here of the specific anti-Chinese legislation this country ran just over a century ago.

       Go right ahead, since you want to write immigration policy on the fly. What are your criteria for refusal or acceptance?
       When indeed does your cat become a Lion? And why should we care?
       • tracey 9.1.1.1

         24 June 2015 at 12:56 pm

         can we draw a line between the kind of residential property buyers we want and don’t want?

         I like CGT for second properties.
         I like a tax on foreign purchases of existing homes

         both to address the demand side

         and increasing home building, but not through regulatory and quality shortcuts

         to address supply
         • Ad 9.1.1.1.1

           24 June 2015 at 1:27 pm

           You can try, so long as you don’t try and do it by ethnicity, which is the problem I have. We have to be consistent. If we are going to put a ruler over the rich immigrants’ property, then we have to do it for all.

           Consider: migrants who displace hospital treatment beds, who get in line for state housing, who get in line for NZSuper, who get in line actually for any good thing the state or New Zealand as a whole offers. Maybe apply that to our own families when they arrived here. And be completely colour-blind about it. “From everyone according to their capacity, ….(you finish the sentence….)”

           Happy to admit some sorting mechanisms are necessary, but if we’re going to debate that, then please let’s just stop with the emotive ethnic-singling headlines and media releases, and get to some actual policy work.
           • tracey 9.1.1.1.1.1

             24 June 2015 at 1:49 pm

             So, from your perspective the announcement about the intent of investment in Auckland property from China is or isnt relevant or needs to be reported with broader figures relating to all investment in Auckland residential property?
             • Ad …

               24 June 2015 at 2:11 pm

               The only fair thing to do is the publish the ethnic origin of all non-resident buyers. Instead, the selection is framed for ethnic fear.
               Then and only then it would be relevant.

               You remember about eight years ago the Central Leader was successfully prosecuted for the title “Asian Invasion”?

               It’s back.
               • tracey …

                 24 June 2015 at 2:19 pm

                 I understand what you are saying. Thanks
         • Mike S 9.1.1.1.2

           24 June 2015 at 5:51 pm

           Why a tax on foreign purchases of existing homes? Why should foreigners be allowed to buy residential property here full stop? Houses are for new Zealanders to live in, not for foreigners to make money off. If they want to buy a house here then by all means come and live here but if you don’t live here you shouldn’t be able to buy residential property here.
   • Mike the Savage One 9.2

     24 June 2015 at 12:30 pm

     Yeah right, “spectacular economic dynamism”:

     http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/9546069/Migrant-exploitation-rife-in-restaurants
     http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/better-business/67624758/Masala-restaurants-fined-again-for-worker-exploitation
     http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11367144
     http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11230303
     http://www.immigration.govt.nz/migrant/general/generalinformation/news/sentence-sends-strong-message-against-migrant-exploitation.htm
     http://www.3news.co.nz/tvshows/campbelllive/cashforresidency-scam-uncovered-2014012717#axzz3dw0ICYAg

     http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11445066

     Extracted bit from the last article:

     “For many of them, immigrating to New Zealand and the later acquisition of a New Zealand passport means that they can enjoy many benefits as New Zealand citizens … they can also obtain New Zealand qualifications and work experience,” she wrote in her report.

     “All of these … are a good preparation for them to accumulate enough human capital (skills and cultural knowledge) towards the goal of moving to a more economically viable destination for career development, better income or an overall well-being for their families.”

     Chinese migrants chose to leave and go where opportunities were when their basic economic needs were not met in New Zealand, the study found.

     But many said they would consider returning to New Zealand to retire.”

     And we bear in mind, to qualify for guaranteed (largely taxpayer funded) NZ retirement income, one only needs to spend ten years in NZ, not necessarily working or doing business.

     I just offer this as a “glance” at what goes on, which does of course not speak for all immigrants from various countries, but it must also be seen as reports on the tip of the iceberg, of what goes on. I know of first hand cases, where people set up a “business”, merely to get PR, and then swiftly move to do something else, as the business they started, was never really that viable or profitable. It was set up for one main purpose, to get PR. But who can blame people to seek a better environment to live in, when the source country has more than enough problems, that we do not have here.

     But to be fair, for those that are honest, commit to living in NZ, respect the laws and rules and locals, and want to become part of New Zealand, let them be welcome, but re those that only want to cut corners, bring in corrupt and other questionable practices, we need to take a closer look and take action.

     I rest my case.
     • Ad 9.2.1

       24 June 2015 at 12:45 pm

       Lincoln Tan’s article that Chinese study and may come back, is the same result for any other New Zealander. Fail.

       Your articles point to specific stories, but no statistical clue as to whether Chinese immigrants are more or less likely to do illegal things than any other ethnicity in New Zealand.

       Why are you and Twyford so keen to demonise Chinese people?
       • Sabine 9.2.1.1

         24 June 2015 at 1:40 pm

         why are you so keen to demonise Twyford? Has he done something?
         Or is it just that he is Labour and you are not?

         We need to have a discussion about Migration. We need to ask ourselfs if foreign interests buying businesses not too conduct business but to only use it as a vehicle to a Permanent Residence is the type of Migrant we want.

         I understand that National might have an advantage with the chinese voter, and why not…to each their own. But to sell access to Permanent Residence and Citizenship only to increase the voter base for National that would be a bit cynical, would it not?
         • Ad 9.2.1.1.1

           24 June 2015 at 2:09 pm

           “Labour’s housing spokesman Phil Twyford said Chinese people could buy nearly 20,000 houses with $15.9 billion, putting even more pressure on over-stretched stock.

           “This shows the urgency of cracking down on the offshore speculation that is driving house prices beyond the reach of young Kiwi families,” Twyford said. “Labour’s policy is to ban foreign buyers, unless they intend to live here or by building new their investment adds to our housing stock.”

           He does it all himself.
           No broad discussion about migration there.
           Just a nice cold link between Chinese, fear, and stopping “them”.
       • Mike the Savage One 9.2.1.2

         24 June 2015 at 11:48 pm

         Sorry to “tickle” or hit a nerve, Ad, but Lincoln Tan wrote about comments made “they would consider returning to New Zealand to retire”, which is a bit odd, is it not? Why only “learn” a bit to better adapt and get ahead elsewhere, and then only come back to retire? Why not contribute to the society, culture and economy here, during their working age?

         I suppose you are as much a fan of an endlessly growing Auckland, same as our friend Len, His Worship.

         While the news reports were focusing on certain migrants, that was only because of the comment you made, under this post, about Mainland Chinese investment in housing:
         “Chinese and Indian investors have brought spectacular economic dynamism, massive numbers of tourists and students, and huge cultural energy to Auckland over the last three decades.”

         I just felt a “dampener” of your enthusiasm was warranted, as it is not necessarily all that great. As for foreign real estate buyers, and I mean residential real estate, I have the same concern about UK “investors”, so rest assured, I am not blind in one eye.
10. Charles 10

    24 June 2015 at 10:30 am

    I agree with the conclusion to the article, but to offer an answer to this bit,

    “Why would this money go in to new buildings – what land would they be built on?”

    I recently watched an older villa type building knocked down and in it’s place a multi-flat building constructed. That’s where the land is coming from. Makes a hell of a mess, building right out to the road, right up to the boundaries, couldn’t actually see how any car larger than a tiny compact would either fit in the drive or any of the “garages”, no consideration for neighbours light and no light into new block of two-storey flats either.

    Now you could say, great, force people to use public transport over cars, provide more housing to what was there… but unfortunately, in my experience, this type of flat isn’t cheap to rent or particularly good value for money.
    • tracey 10.1

      24 June 2015 at 12:58 pm

      Did you see the article yesterday about the young guy whose parents brought property and wanted to demolish the 4 bdrm villa on it, so he advertised it for free on trademe, to anyone who wants to remove it and place it on some land? I don’t know if anyone will but he said it was a shame to have it demolished when someone might be able to use it.
11. Observer (Tokoroa) 11

    24 June 2015 at 10:40 am

    The Selling of New Zealand

    So China is going to buy up even more $Billions of property and the Key / English Govt doesn’t give a toss. China isn’t the only one but its a super large one.

    Chinese Business will use Chinese Immigrants to staff their shops and projects.

    Only one Politician in the country has been warning about this gross transfer of property and wealth from New Zealanders to Foreigners. He has being doing so for a number of years.

    Only one Politician can hold his head high in this whole country. The other Parliamentary lags – mouth his name with venom.

    It is time we told the timewasting lags in our Parliament that we despise their laziness and we are stupified by their stupidity.
    • Tracey 11.1

      24 June 2015 at 11:50 am

      Peter Thompson of Barfoots in Auckland is a National Party donor and friend… His agency unabashedly promotes selling by telling people they have 500 chinese agents with contacts back into China to get you the highest price.
12. Colonial Rawshark 12

    24 June 2015 at 11:35 am

    Will Labour block this massive influx of Chinese “investment” aka economic colonisation.
    • Sabine 12.1

      24 June 2015 at 2:40 pm

      of course not dear, they will sing kumbaya.

      if you don’t like labour or are not happy with them, thats fine, but please stop the whinging about the stuff that labour does not do to your liking.
      there are other parties that should be more to your taste, and if not create a new one.

      this whinging that not enough is done, that what is done is not done with a pure mind or heart, that labour is national light , and national is becoming labour light. the fuck?

      Choose your faction, and get to work. Or continue singing kumbaya nothing gets done by the party that i don’t support in whingy little voice.

      Goodness gracious me, but i am not sure who is worse the trolls from the right side of the spectrum or the ones that appear to be trolling from the neglected left side of the spectrum.
      • DoublePlusGood 12.1.1

        24 June 2015 at 5:52 pm

        That has to rate amongst the top ten ridiculous character assassinations in response to a sensible question I’ve seen on this site. Address CR’s point – that the Chinese investment brings risks to our independence – or shut up.
13. Tracey 13

    24 June 2015 at 11:48 am

    New buildings? Like the one never built by Mr Williamson’s or Mr Woodhouse’s friend Mr Liu??
14. adam 14

    24 June 2015 at 11:49 am

    And all the time rents go up…
15. peter 15

    24 June 2015 at 11:50 am

    It’s weird but on this site if one dares voice an opinion that we should not let ‘boat people’ in, one gets hit with a deluge of abuse accusing racism. Yet this thread is pure anti Chinese racism.
    We NEED the capital inflows from Chinese investment. It keeps our country afloat. It’s economics 101.
    What’s the alternative? A return to some kind of hermit status? We tried that in the decades up to the 1980s. It failed miserably.
    • One Anonymous Bloke 15.1

      24 June 2015 at 11:53 am

      You’re quite right, Peter, ethnicity has nothing to do with it. It’s the gross distortion of the Auckland property market.
    • PETER 15.2

      24 June 2015 at 11:57 am

      We need capital inflows into infrastructure not housing
      • Tracey 15.2.1

        24 June 2015 at 11:59 am

        either peter doesn’t understand or is deliberately trying to turn this into a thread about racism rather than ways to combat the property crisis in Auckland by attacking supply AND demand issues.
      • Colonial Rawshark 15.2.2

        24 June 2015 at 12:16 pm

        We need capital inflows into infrastructure not housing

        What use are “capital inflows” when our country has set up massive annual capital outflows?

        If foreigners own more of NZ, those capital outflows will just keep increasing, impoverishing NZ further.

        What is your answer to that, Mr Economics 101?
        • peter 15.2.2.1

          24 June 2015 at 12:39 pm

          It’s called the global economy. Like it or not we cannot stop it. Economics whether it be 101 or some purist phd econometrics theories are all a little divorced from the real world. That is beyond doubt. But what would happen if we did stop this Chinese money flooding in? What would happen to our currency and in turn to our levels 9f employment, purchasing power etc?
          But whether we agree or not is irrelevant. We cannot stop it. The Chinese have spent over 60 years learning to negotiate their way around laws and regulations.
          • tracey 15.2.2.1.1

            24 June 2015 at 1:01 pm

            can you explain how other nations can have CGT and taxes on foreigner purchases of property but not us? You say we cannot stop it? But we might dampen it and get revenue from it to offset any side effects…

            What would happen if “Chinese” money stopped buy our residential homes peter, lay it out for us, with sources/linksi

            Our currency might weaken? That will mean higher petrol and electronics costs but will be great for our exporters, and we are an export focused economy?
            • One Anonymous Bloke 15.2.2.1.1.1

              24 June 2015 at 1:38 pm

              Peter cannot think of any legislative responses, therefore there are none.
          • One Anonymous Bloke 15.2.2.1.2

            24 June 2015 at 1:03 pm

            Starts a thread accusing others of racism. Makes broad sweeping statements about groups of people based on their citizenship.

            You’re really a little bit shit at this false narrative game, eh Peter.
            • peter 15.2.2.1.2.1

              24 June 2015 at 1:28 pm

              Well at least I don’t need to abuse others to mak my point. Your handle ‘anonymous’ speaks volumes. Also the words bully. Wander. Unemployed. Etc

              [lprent: Your one is a pseudonym as well. Read the Gosman rule in the policy and fix your behaviour. This is your warning. ]
              • One Anonymous Bloke …

                24 June 2015 at 1:33 pm

                So, your response to my criticism of your behaviour is to call me some names and make stupid assumptions about my work.

                You really are very shit at this, eh Peter.
            • peter 15.2.2.1.2.2

              24 June 2015 at 1:29 pm

              Is this your LIFE? It seems to be. Pathetic.
              • One Anonymous Bloke …

                24 June 2015 at 1:37 pm

                🙄

                Makes comments on a blog, criticising others for commenting on a blog. Sad and true.
                • peter …

                  24 June 2015 at 1:41 pm

                  Wanker. Dole budget. Racist. Masturbating impotent little boy. I really cannot be bothered. I actually have a life. I will leave you nutters to it I think. Thank god people like you have zero lives.
                  • One Anonymous Bloke …

                    24 June 2015 at 1:43 pm

                    I must remember you the next time I do some public speaking. Hilarious.
                    • peter …

                      24 June 2015 at 2:22 pm

                      As I said. Pathetic.
                  • Anno1701 …

                    24 June 2015 at 1:48 pm
                    • peter …

                      24 June 2015 at 2:24 pm

                      At last some sanity! I can take anyone disagreeing with me, but trolling just dies my head in. This is or should be a place for discussion. Not following someone around to endlessly troll them.

                      [lprent: you appear to be trying to start a flamewar and trolling. Read the policy. Putting you on probation until you can affirm that that you have read the rules of the site. ]
          • Colonial Rawshark 15.2.2.1.3

            24 June 2015 at 2:43 pm

            It’s called the global economy. Like it or not we cannot stop it.

            What are you afraid of Peter? The global economy is impoverishing whole countries and their people, making them dependent on money units printed by keyboard by the central banks of America, UK, Japan and China.

            Why would you be a supporter of such an absurd, destructive, false system?
    • Tracey 15.3

      24 June 2015 at 11:57 am

      So you support raising the refugee limit from 750 per year?

      When a person from overseas buys a nz property (a house). IF they borrow from home or NZ, the payments to that bank does not stay in NZ – it is money that never really comes into the economy of NZ. The profit certainly leaves NZ. Yes, the banks employ people but it is more and more call centres and automated services…

      So, let’s separate the arguments aye.
    • Colonial Rawshark 15.4

      24 June 2015 at 12:14 pm

      We NEED the capital inflows from Chinese investment. It keeps our country afloat. It’s economics 101.

      Economics 101 is a set of self serving lies and falsehoods designed by the 0.1% to impoverish our nation.

      Why would you follow such a religion?
      • peter 15.4.1

        24 June 2015 at 12:32 pm

        Yeah. It’s all a conspiracy theory.
        • tracey 15.4.1.1

          24 June 2015 at 1:01 pm

          So you support raising the refugee limit from 750 per year?
          • peter 15.4.1.1.1

            24 June 2015 at 1:21 pm

            Yes of course. But although it will change the lives of those 250 hugely we (‘humanity’ although there probably a better wird) will have changed zero.
            The countries raking in refugees in is seriously skewed towards the western nations. Most refugees at the current time are Muslims yet the wealthiest Muslim countries don’t pull their weight and in fact treat their fellow believers little better than slaves.
            • tracey 15.4.1.1.1.1

              24 June 2015 at 1:45 pm

              what do you mean by “those 250”?
              • peter …

                24 June 2015 at 2:19 pm

                The extra 250 allowed in as refugees above the present 750 quota.
                • peter …

                  24 June 2015 at 2:20 pm

                  Sorry I guess should clarify. The increase from the existing 750 to 1000 as, I understand, AI is proposing.
                  • Colonial Rawshark …

                    24 June 2015 at 2:44 pm

                    Peter, Economics 101 is a set of lies and falsehoods designed by the 0.1% to benefit the 0.1%. Why would you support such a thing?
                    • DoublePlusGood …

                      24 June 2015 at 5:55 pm

                      I boggles my mind that Economics 101 isn’t such basic concepts as “Don’t use more resources than you can produce sustainably”.
    • Mike S 15.5

      24 June 2015 at 5:57 pm

      Rubbsh. Buying residential property is not foreign investment which benefits NZ. It simply goes into unproductive housing to make capital gains. Chinese foreigners buying houses in Auckland doesn’t keep our country afloat, it damages it severely.

      The decades up to the 80’s were known as the golden years for a reason. Since the eighties wages have stagnated, education is no longer free, housing is out of reach for Kiwis, inequality has risen exponentially, our assets have been sold off, etc,etc,etc.
16. Anno1701 16

    24 June 2015 at 12:36 pm

    Will we start seeing a “black” housing market like in spain ?

    http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/feb/23/spain-property-black-market-housing-madrid
17. Observer (Tokoroa) 17

    24 June 2015 at 1:23 pm

    To: Colonial Rawshark
    Your good Question

    I can’t see any political party Labour or National doing anything much about “Economic Colonisation”. The other parties are too tiny to get a hearing anyway.

    I think that Labour and National have managed significant parliaments in the past. Importantly, the common man played a great part in those parliaments both via Unions and Business Federations such as the Farmers.

    However, we need to unhitch ourselves from the current “wealth greed” model (Fewer and Fewer people owning massive Resources and Money) for it is utterly destructive.

    We need to return to egalitarian principles. The great Rosseau summarised it all with his Liberty Equality Fraternity. The Ancient Greeks would have called it I rather feel, the principle of Moderation.

    We need to lessen the adversarial bull house approach and get out there and explain to grownup people that they must take a far bigger interest in Democracy. They must become owners of Democracy. They must know how to despise unbridled wealth. Else the Common Man with the Middle Class will entirely disappear. They will be subverted into a population known formerly as slaves. Slaves of the rich and powerful.

    Breaking up Parliament into little minority groups is unsatisfactory and rort ridden; it is not conducive to Equality. It is used to slip people into parliament who have not even been through a ballot.

    However, small interest groups should be encouraged to approach a President (non political rather like our Governors General) with proposals to put to Parliament for legislation.

    Assistance, financial, legal, and presentational should be available to the groups. Parliament should give them total respect and consideration. For these groups are of the Common Man.

    This is the merest sketch of what I think. In brief, there is no such thing as Democracy if the Common Man is brutalised by a cadre of wealthy, dishonest and manipulative politicians.

    Also, there is no such thing as Democracy if the Common man does not step up to the plate and hold on fiercely like a free man.

    “…in respect of riches, no citizen shall ever be wealthy enough to buy another, and none poor enough to be forced to sell himself.”
    ― Jean-Jacques Rousseau (b.1712), The Social Contract
    • Sabine 17.1

      24 June 2015 at 2:58 pm

      hear hear
      well said.
    • Colonial Rawshark 17.2

      24 June 2015 at 3:09 pm

      +1

      of the people, for the people, by the people
18. Draco T Bastard 18

    24 June 2015 at 1:33 pm

    New Zealand needs overseas investment to help drive our economy.

    No country has ever needed overseas investment as the only thing that the overseas investment does is utilise the capital (raw materials, labour, etc) that are already here to do those things that we could already do and, more often than not, were already doing. No, overseas investment does nothing for our economy except drive up the prices such that people living here can no longer afford to live here. In other words, it increases poverty.

    “This shows the urgency of cracking down on the offshore speculation that is driving house prices beyond the reach of young Kiwi families,” Twyford said. “Labour’s policy is to ban foreign buyers, unless they intend to live here or by building new their investment adds to our housing stock.”

    That is what it shows but Labours’ plan is half-pie. What we really need to do is to ban offshore ownership outright and that includes ownership of land, businesses and farms.
19. Observer (Tokoroa) 19

    24 June 2015 at 3:56 pm

    Sabine
    Colonial Rawshark
    Draco T Bastard

    Thankyou. Not only for your kind remarks about my few words but for your own good work in teasing our the correct path for New Zealand.

    Defranchising ourselves for foreigners is just totally stupid. Demented, Pathetic, Irresponsible and Calamitous.

    The Conservative and the Labour Prayer:
    “Dear Confucius please humiliate me, impoverish me, torture me – so that your Chinese wealthy can have all my money and property. I want to be yours and their slave Mr Confucius.”

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