Open mike 25/07/2022

38 comments on “Open mike 25/07/2022 ”

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1. Robert Guyton 1

   25 July 2022 at 7:38 am

   "However, it is understood the former co-leader is trying to shore up his support, in part, by listening to the members who had voted against his leadership and reflecting on their concerns. Shaw was not available for comment on Sunday evening."

   Listening and reflecting???

   Rather than dismissing and denying?

   He's the Green Gandhi!

   https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/129367816/pm-jacinda-ardern-throws-support-behind-james-shaw-as-he-mulls-green-coleader-race
   • PsyclingLeft.Always 1.1

     25 July 2022 at 7:46 am

     Despite working to bring down Shaw, the party delegates who voted against him do not appear to have a plan for what happens if he chooses to run for co-leader again, as appears likely.

     More than one party source said there didn’t appear to be any alternative candidate ready to run against Shaw.

     https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/129367816/pm-jacinda-ardern-throws-support-behind-james-shaw-as-he-mulls-green-coleader-race

     Ya gotta wonder..in disbelief ! But agree re James Shaw !. And…Jacinda just reinforces my belief and estimation for her . A true Gem. : )

     (oh re this Green “trouble” Within Labour…and on this very site..there are white-anters plotting. “Ardern Tanking” Ha . BS
     • Ad 1.1.1

       25 July 2022 at 7:49 am

       Pretty sad that none of the current Green MPs have come out publicly for him.

       Not much point being in politics if you can't figure out how to speak.
       • Lanthanide 1.1.1.1

         25 July 2022 at 7:55 am

         Marama has. Last I checked, she was an MP.

         Wait to see how today goes. I'm sure they want to have a caucus meeting about it first. You know, party discipline and all that.
         • Ad 1.1.1.1.1

           25 July 2022 at 8:01 am

           Missed that. Good to hear.

           Shaw said they all met yesterday.
         • Sanctuary 1.1.1.1.2

           25 July 2022 at 8:04 am

           Shaw said on RNZ they had a caucus meeting yesterday. But anyway, the plotters of this high school common room coup got a cold dose of reality from the PM this morning. Jacinda gave a master class on RNZ in not interfering in Green party affairs whilst giving the anti-Shaw activists a giant two finger salute. No matter what happens, Shaw will retain his ministerial warrant until the next election.
           • weka 1.1.1.1.2.1

             25 July 2022 at 8:28 am

             Don’t see the connection between being a Minister and being a coleader.
             • Lanthanide …

               25 July 2022 at 12:31 pm

               Sure, you don't. Because you understand politics.

               The general public don't. And that's what Jacinda cleared up for them.
               • weka …

                 25 July 2022 at 3:23 pm

                 What’s the connection? I can’t see a reason that the climate minister needs to be a coleader.

                 if you understand politics so well then just explain it.
           • bwaghorn 1.1.1.1.2.2

             25 July 2022 at 12:40 pm

             I'm picking Ardern backing Shaw just makes the 25%ers think they are right in kneecapping Shaw
   • Jimmy 1.2

     25 July 2022 at 8:28 am

     They would be foolish to get rid of James Shaw. He is the "sensible green one". Marama, Gloriz and Ricardo are hardly concerned with the environment and seem to only be concerned with increasing benefits. If James decides to stay on, I cant see Chloe challenging him for leadership (although one day she will be a co-leader I reckon). If James does decide to step down, surely Chloe would be a no brainer to take his place.
     • solkta 1.2.1

       25 July 2022 at 8:40 am

       Marama not concerned about the environment, what a ridiculous thing to say. Do you understand that parties have spokespeople for different issues? They can't all be spokesperson for Climate Change.
       • Jimmy 1.2.1.1

         25 July 2022 at 8:45 am

         The Green party is like two parties merged together and thus why they are referred to as watermelons by some. Green on the outside but red on the inside. Marama is clearly more of the red. She is clearly the more dominant co-leader too and rule changes regarding leadership clearly favour her.
         • solkta 1.2.1.1.1

           25 July 2022 at 8:57 am

           People can hold environmental ideas at the same time as social ideas.
           • Graeme 1.2.1.1.1.1

             25 July 2022 at 10:33 am

             More to the point, how can you have one without the other. It's a deeply conflicted individual that thinks they can care for, and do the right thing for, the planet, and then turn around and fuck over their fellow inhabitants of that planet.
             • Descendant Of Smith …

               25 July 2022 at 11:16 am

               It is why I like the Green Party and switched my vote from Labour several elections ago.

               It is much more difficult to care for the environment if you are struggling day to day to survive and feed your kids – lifting people out of poverty is better for all sorts of reasons but does include the ability to have some space to breathe and think about environmental issues.

               Consumption obviously increases as you move out of poverty but it isn't a trade-off of one for the other.

               Labour on the other hand seem wedded to neo-liberal growth and austerity for the poorest.
             • arkie …

               25 July 2022 at 7:12 pm

               Ecology without class struggle is gardening.

               — Chico Mendes
         • weka 1.2.1.1.2

           25 July 2022 at 11:41 am

           don't know where you get your ideas about the GP, but it might help if you looked at their website, their history and the history of the Green movements. Social justice has always been part of that, do you know why?

           Start here,

           https://www.greens.org.nz/charter
           • Jimmy 1.2.1.1.2.1

             25 July 2022 at 2:39 pm

             If you believe that, I have a cycle bridge to sell you.
   • swordfish 1.3

     25 July 2022 at 5:01 pm

     .

     If only Woke Dogmatists within the Green Party would “listen and reflect” for the first time in their cosseted lives.
     • Robert Guyton 1.3.1

       25 July 2022 at 5:09 pm

       "If only…"

       Well, they won't, will they, especially in response to witherings such as yours.

       Perhaps you could take a different approach to achieve the change you hope for?
2. Ad 2

   25 July 2022 at 7:40 am

   Prime Minister Orban of Hungary strongly yesterday discouraged 'race mixing'.

   Viktor Orbán sparks outrage with attack on ‘race mixing’ in Europe | Hungary | The Guardian

   With Hungary's population headed into accelerated decline, sure looks like they could do with some vigorous 'race mixing'.

   Hungary Population 1950-2022 | MacroTrends

   Get it on people.
   • Sanctuary 2.1

     25 July 2022 at 1:31 pm

     Orban wants to be careful on this race mixing stuff, if the Hungarians had remained "pure" Magyars he'd look like a Mongolian herdsman.
     • Poission 2.1.1

       25 July 2022 at 1:45 pm

       No it is well known that the Hungarian intellectual elite were Martians.

       https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Martians_(scientists)
3. Adrian Thornton 3

   25 July 2022 at 8:24 am

   Nicaragua's President Ortega: US/EU waging war to stop multipolar world

   I guess the countries surrounding the US know this to be true better than most….
4. Ad 4

   25 July 2022 at 10:41 am

   This palm oil issue has legs.

   Indonesia is taking the EU to the World Trade Organisation court, as is Malaysia.

   Both are chaired by Manzoor Ahmad, Pakistan's former permanent representative to the WTO. Members are Sarah Paterson, of New Zealand, and Arie Reich, of Israel.

   What are EU′s options in palm oil row with Malaysia and Indonesia? | Asia | An in-depth look at news from across the continent | DW | 22.07.2022

   Of course like New Zealand's coal imports, what the EU says it wants to do and what it actually does is completely different. EU need all the energy sources it can get its hands on, despite the obvious deforestation and carbon emissions.

   Can Europe defeat a palm oil ′monster′ of its own making? | Human factor | DW | 22.08.2018

   If the EU really does crash Palm Oil imports, will New Zealand's dairy industry still be able to import the waste kernels for dairy feed?

   Maybe the farmers need to find that seaweed substitute a whole bunch faster.
   • bwaghorn 4.1

     25 July 2022 at 12:44 pm

     Or farmers could just go back to farming 2-4 cows to the hectare and growing there own inputs
     • pat 4.1.1

       25 July 2022 at 5:24 pm

       this
   • Janet 4.2

     25 July 2022 at 1:36 pm

     If NZ is still importing palm kernel to feed the diary cows – know that the palm kernel they are buying was always placed back on the ground under the palm trees to rot down and feed the next crops. I saw that first hand and am dismayed palm kernel was ever allowed to be imported into NZ to unsustainably boost the NZs dairy cows diet.
   • Robert Guyton 4.3

     25 July 2022 at 2:34 pm

     I have lodged questions about PKE and the threat it represents, to Environment Southland and The Southland Times. I will report back when those questions are aired, and, I hope, answered.
5. Molly 5

   25 July 2022 at 12:32 pm

   For those who are keeping track of the influence of Stonewall's Diversity Champion's programme in the UK, TENI in Ireland, ACON in Australia and ARC in Canada, I think this may be the NZ equivalent – including Ministries as clients and members.

   Diversity Works NZ

   Reading some of previous award blurbs, group think starts at recruitment, and is honed by bias training.

   The diversity industry is booming.

   https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/with-global-spending-projected-to-reach-15-4-billion-by-2026–diversity-equity–inclusion-takes-the-lead-role-in-the-creation-of-stronger-businesses-301413808.html

   The global market for Diversity and Inclusion (D&I) estimated at US$7.5 Billion in the year 2020, is projected to reach a revised size of US$15.4 Billion by 2026, growing at a CAGR of 12.6% over the analysis period.

   How successful is this spending is a relevant question.

   https://time.com/5696943/diversity-business/

   Why do companies spend so much to achieve so little? Lauren B. Edelman, a professor of law and sociology at the University of California, Berkeley, and the author of Working Law: Courts, Corporations and Symbolic Civil Rights, found that courts tend to look for symbolic structures of diversity rather than their efficacy. In other words, the diversity apparatus doesn’t have to work–it just has to exist–and it can help shield a company against successful bias lawsuits, which are already difficult to win.
   • Ad 5.1

     25 July 2022 at 2:12 pm

     It's a bit more practical than that. The existence of the programmes at least in New Zealand is simply a criteria for doing business.

     It's very hard to win any decent public sector contract without it.

     And it's much harder to retain younger staff without it.
     • Anker 5.1.1

       25 July 2022 at 4:27 pm

       "it is very hard to win any public sector contract without it"………shows how these programmes have infiltrated our supposedly neutral public service.

       Young workers I think you mean the ones who have come out of the universities with Arts degrees, but correct me if I am wrong.
       • Ad 5.1.1.1

         25 July 2022 at 4:39 pm

         Procurement is a perfectly acceptable place for policy implementation. The neutrality is in the evaluation of all bids.

         Arts, Marketing, Engineering, Accounting … it's simply an expectation. And nothing wrong with arts degrees by the way.
   • Anker 5.2

     25 July 2022 at 4:25 pm

     Thanks Molly. That helps to explain why people are so invested in diverstity and inclusion training. Its an industry. And I read recently a great article about corporates and the Rainbow tick which stated words to the effect, that the corporates don't care about that community. It is corporate virtue signalling.

     The link below is a fascinating take on this by a Swedish Trotkyite. The title is the give away. Among other things he is saying there are not enough jobs for all the arts graduates so these diversity and inclusion jobs are job creation for middle class graduates. Workers pay their taxes to fund this stuff.

     https://rdln.wordpress.com/2022/07/21/understanding-wokeness-as-a-make-work-strategy-for-the-privileged-class/
     • Ad 5.2.1

       25 July 2022 at 4:42 pm

       That author sounds so old they have more in common with Orban and Trump than having any modern understanding of people under 40. People are just more complex now, more sensitive. It's neither good nor bad; it's just what it is.
     • Drowsy M. Kram 5.2.2

       25 July 2022 at 7:18 pm

       That helps to explain why people are so invested in diverstity and inclusion training.

       Imho "diversity and inclusion training" can be beneficial, but it’s not for eveyone

       Disclaimer: I derive no pecuniary benefits from that industry/service.
6. Anker 6

   25 July 2022 at 7:06 pm

   • Umm Ad Malcolm Kyeune is 34 years old.
   • He’s a Marxist, so I would say not too much in common with Trump.

   I think he has some interesting things to say. That doesn’t necessarily mean I am going to March for him.

   “The neutrality is in the evaluation of all bids”…..as long as all bidders can tick the inclusion and diversity training. It sounds great doesn’t it. Who wouldn’t agree with inclusion and diversity. Problem is that it’s tick box diversity. Not diversity of thought. A public servant challenged the trainers in I and D regarding whether her sister who is a lesbian should to sleep with male bodied people and got pinged for it. This included the DCE meeting with her to tell her the trainers were very upset that she had used the term male bodied people and it wasn’t acceptable. So basically the I and D training is about right think.

   btw I have an arts degree. It was ticket into more vocational training. So was helpful to me

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