Open mike 25/01/2016

Written By: notices and features - Date published: 6:00 am, January 25th, 2016 - 86 comments
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86 comments on “Open mike 25/01/2016 ”

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Paul 1

25 January 2016 at 7:28 am

Guyon Espiner asks Key questions about housing affordability in Auckland.
Key has no answer.

http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/morningreport/audio/201786630/john-key-on-the-week's-events
- BM 1.1
  
  25 January 2016 at 7:46 am
  
  What was there to answer?
  As Key said, Auckland is a very sought after place to live both locally and internationally.
  
  Also prices have been rising for a long time and will take a while to level out or drop, last thing any government would want to do is rapidly crash a market.
  - Paul 1.1.1
    
    25 January 2016 at 7:53 am
    
    I guess something like “Isn’t the cost of housing in Auckland a problem for median earners?” and “What are you going to do about it?”
    
    Median income $ 77, 000
    Median house price $ 748 000
    
    It appears Key ( a multi-millionaire) does not.
    - Sacha 1.1.1.1
      
      25 January 2016 at 8:09 am
      
      “As Key said, Auckland is a very sought after place to live”
      
      It is a sought after place to invest untaxed money. Not the same thing, sadly. Until a government tackles the financialisation of our housing, Auckland is screwed.
      - Paul 1.1.1.1.1
        
        25 January 2016 at 8:16 am
        
        House prices are so high because there are no rules here.
        New Zealanders can land bank, buying up many more houses than they need.
        And people from overseas can speculate on houses prices here.
        
        Both these groups of people – wealthy New Zealanders and foreigners – are forcing ordinary New Zealanders out of their own land.
        
        But Key and his acolytes believe in the market.
        Devoutly.
        
        Tautuhi 1.1.1.1.1.1
        
        25 January 2016 at 10:58 pm
        
        Except when it comes to the TPPA and multinationals he wants them protected?
      - BM 1.1.1.1.2
        
        25 January 2016 at 8:26 am
        
        You always did, but it has been tightened up.
        Too many kiwis doing a shifty and not declaring income from property speculation.
        
        http://www.ird.govt.nz/m/campaigns/property-changes.html
      - Sirenia 1.1.1.1.3
        
        25 January 2016 at 11:59 am
        
        I don’t understand where that high median income figure comes from. I thought the NZ median personal income was closer to $28,000. – which means half earn less than that. A very long way from the median house price in Auckland (or anywhere).
        
        Sacha 1.1.1.1.3.1
        
        25 January 2016 at 1:08 pm
        
        Is it household income?
        
        Macro …
        
        25 January 2016 at 9:01 pm
        
        Yes. Another little lie.
  - Muttonbird 1.1.2
    
    25 January 2016 at 9:48 am
    
    “The truth is, (the current government) are paralysed with fear that the bubble will burst on their watch, so don’t want to tackle the causes of the crisis.”
    
    – Demographia
    
    As Matthew Hooton described the other day here at The Standard, this government is truly the do nothing government.
    - BM 1.1.2.1
      
      25 January 2016 at 9:51 am
      
      You don’t want the bubble to burst, you want it to slowly deflate, so people have a bit of time to adjust.
      
      Bubbles bursting is what happened to NZ between 1984 and 1990, thought Labour would have learn’t their lesson and understood that.
      
      Obviously not and yet another reason why they’re not fit to govern and National is the only option out there to skillfully run the economy.
      - Muttonbird 1.1.2.1.1
        
        25 January 2016 at 10:05 am
        
        By doing nothing?
        
        Fact is they are getting right towelling in the media today and about time too.
        
        And do please when you are ready point out where Labour advocates for a bursting of the bubble.
        
        BM 1.1.2.1.1.1
        
        25 January 2016 at 11:13 am
        
        Doing nothing?
        
        http://www.ird.govt.nz/m/campaigns/property-changes.html
        
        http://www.aucklandcouncil.govt.nz/en/ratesbuildingproperty/housingsupply/pages/specialhousingareas.aspx
        
        What else do you want them to do, take over Auckland?
        
        ————————————————–
        
        The truth is, (the current government) are paralysed with fear that the bubble will burst on their watch, so don’t want to tackle the causes of the crisis.
        
        Phil Twyford
        
        http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/76150232/auckland-housing-soars-further-out-of-householders-reach-demographia
        
        Muttonbird …
        
        25 January 2016 at 12:42 pm
        
        And yet Auckland has moved from ninth to fifth on the least affordable cities in the world list after the timid tinkering by the current government.
        
        The tinkering around the edges by John Key is clearly not working and as several experts have said this morning far more needs to be done.
      - dv 1.1.2.1.2
        
        25 January 2016 at 10:10 am
        
        National is the only option out there to skillfully run the economy.
        
        Current Debt
        NZ$ 120,310,738,466
      - Draco T Bastard 1.1.2.1.3
        
        25 January 2016 at 10:33 am
        
        You don’t want the bubble to burst, you want it to slowly deflate, so people have a bit of time to adjust.
        
        Actually, I’d make it so that there was a way for the owners to keep living in the same house without debt and then crash the market.
        
        Bubbles bursting is what happened to NZ between 1984 and 1990, thought Labour would have learn’t their lesson and understood that.
        
        The problem is that we keep getting bubbles, that when we do our governments actually work to protect those that caused the bubbles rather than ensuring that the risk falls where it’s due and they don’t put in place legislation to stop those bubbles. Just banning foreign ownership would kill many of the bubbles that we now have.
      - Matthew Hooton 1.1.2.1.4
        
        25 January 2016 at 1:08 pm
        
        I doubt Aucklanders want their house prices to “deflate slowly”.
        
        Once was Tim 1.1.2.1.4.1
        
        25 January 2016 at 1:41 pm
        
        Just as an aside Matty – how do you feel about your ‘PERFORMANCE’ on NinetoNoon today?
        Was it (on a scale from 1 to 5): Abysmal thru’ adequate to exceptional.
        Admittedly we can take in your handicap (i.e. where the regular gal with the balanced portfolio and the world’s best understanding of ‘work-life-balance) where allowances are made for you (in case you throw another hissy fit).
        I suspect your judgement (that includes your desire to appear rational and modest) would be in the ‘adequate’ region. 3.5 out of 5 maybe?
        
        Muttonbird 1.1.2.1.4.2
        
        25 January 2016 at 1:50 pm
        
        And that’s the thing. We have become a nation of ladder-kickers.
        
        vto 1.1.2.1.4.3
        
        25 January 2016 at 2:02 pm
        
        “I doubt Aucklanders want their house prices to “deflate slowly”.”
        
        Matthew, if all assets drop in proportion then non problema eh silly.
        
        Problem of course, as highlighted everywhere, is the debt. Not the house price.
        
        Now, if the debt slid in proportion to the house price (for which a very strong argument can be made), then also non problema.
        
        Banks and debt have had to be heavily controlled and regulated for centuries. More is required at this next junction I think. Maybe the change to come post-meltdown will be to limit debt recovery in the event of asset value change (both up and down to be fair)….
  - greywarshark 1.1.3
    
    25 January 2016 at 11:39 am
    
    BM
    You’re stating the bleeding obvious.
    Questions that arise:
    Why is Auckland so sought? What then can reduce those factors? They are disrupting and skewing our housing market, so what can be done to cool this to a satisfactory level, away from gold rush level?
    
    Your point about the length of time of occurrence is an excellent reason to continue any measures that will bring about a gradual decrease in the rise of prices, perhaps to that of our measured inflation, low, very low.
    
    These would be questions arising from the answer that would be applied by an interviewer after definite information and be forthcoming from a responsible politician.
    - BM 1.1.3.1
      
      25 January 2016 at 11:48 am
      
      Have you been to Auckland.?
      
      It’s a very nice city and one of the most multi cultural in the world, people like the place.
      Solve the transport issues and I’d say it would be in the top 5.
      
      Seriously, How many major cites have a farm in the middle of it, where you can walk around among sheep.
      
      http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/property/pictures/9477990/The-worlds-10-best-cities-to-live-in.html
      
      https://www.gfmag.com/global-data/non-economic-data/best-cities-to-live?page=13
      - weka 1.1.3.1.1
        
        25 January 2016 at 12:24 pm
        
        “Seriously, How many major cites have a farm in the middle of it, where you can walk around among sheep.”
        
        Roflnui. Sometimes I think you are a parody account BM.
        
        Matthew Hooton 1.1.3.1.1.1
        
        25 January 2016 at 1:06 pm
        
        He’s talking about Cornwall Park – one of the most beautiful places in the world. It is still a working farm, five minutes drive from Queen Street (outside rush hour).
        
        weka …
        
        25 January 2016 at 1:41 pm
        
        yes, I assumed he was talking about something real, but his phrasing was just too delightfu a summary of propaganda from the neoliberal world view. A lovely city that people can’t afford to live in but hey they can visit the centre and walk around with the sheep. Baaaaa.
        
        Matthew Hooton …
        
        25 January 2016 at 3:30 pm
        
        “too delightful a summary of propaganda from the neoliberal world view”
        
        Does that even mean anything?
        
        Also, it seems that about 1.4 million people are able to afford to live here. And walk around with sheep. Do you not understand that prices go up because people want to live here? If people “can’t afford to live in” Auckland then prices will go down.
        
        weka …
        
        25 January 2016 at 3:44 pm
        
        Well it was more of a statement about BM’s politics as much as anything, but since you’ve asked, yes it does mean something. It means that the view you just presented that the market will somehow provide a solution is a nonsense and we may as well just all head down to the sheep farm and make like the sheep.
        
        The South Island is full of ex-Aucklanders who came here for the cheaper housing. To be fair those are generally the middle classes who could live in Auckland but also could afford to get out. The people really feeling it are the people who live in Auckland but whose quality of life is diminished because of wage rates and housing prices. So when I say ‘can’t afford to live in Auckland’ you can take it as a overarching meme for the fact that how we arrange society grossly advantages some and disadvantages others and the market will never make that right (not that I expect you or BM to care about that).
        
        “If people “can’t afford to live in” Auckland then prices will go down.”
        
        No homeless people there then? Nobody leaving? No poverty? No overcrowded housing? No transient population?
        
        What you really meant is if the middle classes can’t afford it then the housing market will slow. But let’s not pretend that prices will actually drop in any kind of meaningful way that is good for people and their communities.
- Chooky 1.2
  
  25 January 2016 at 7:55 am
  
  he sounded like a slimy bullshitter…the comments which followed said as much…
  - Paul 1.2.1
    
    25 January 2016 at 8:02 am
    
    Yes, notice how how Key tried to dodge throughout the interview.
    He presented statistical outliers.
    He questioned the survey, “This is one survey, there’s a whole bunch of other surveys” then when challenged could not present alternative surveys.
    Then changed tack and bragged about growing consents and said what a great place Auckland was a place to live in.
    When challenged with the rhetorical question, “So you think it’s a good news story?”
    he then blamed Labour for the problem.
    - Tc 1.2.1.1
      
      25 January 2016 at 11:00 am
      
      When he blames labour its a sign of desperation which a decent journo would see and go for the jugular.
      
      3rd term and still blaming clark/cullen which he does because nat shills like Gluon let it pass as the accepted meme/spin being peddled.
      
      Did he get asked about flogging state houses, a broken election promise, by gluon ? This removal of supply will only make it worse and they know it.
Jenny Kirk 2

25 January 2016 at 7:37 am

PM John Key and his National government say most Kiwis support the Trans-Pacific Partnership Agreement and those who don’t are ignorant or manipulated.
Show him he’s wrong.

Help us to fill the Auckland Town Hall tomorrow, Tuesday 26th at 7pm in the first TPPA: Don’t Sign public meetings.

Hear dynamic, funny, and scary US former trade attorney and TPPA expert Lori Wallach, Director of Public Citizen Global Trade Watch, on how the US politics may sink the TPPA.

Jane Kelsey will explain the highlights of the expert papers saying what the TPPA would really mean for Kiwis.

A political panel will tell us why they oppose the signing of the TPPA:
Grant Robertson, Labour; Metiria Turie, Greens; Marama Fox, Maori Party; and Fletcher Tabuteau, NZ First.

For details of Wellington, Christchurch and Dunedin meetings see http://itsourfuture.org.nz/tppa-dont-sign-tour/

The speaking tour is being sponsored by Its Our Future, Action Station, NZ Council of Trade Unions and First Union
but donations are needed to cover costs.
You can contribute to these events and the ongoing campaign at https://givealittle.co.nz/org/itsourfuture
- BM 2.1
  
  25 January 2016 at 8:01 am
  
  Does Labour not support the TPPA?, have they changed their mind again?
  
  http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/72953458/Labour-unlikely-to-withdraw-from-TPPA-trade-deal-if-in-Govt-Andrew-Little?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
  - Paul 2.1.1
    
    25 January 2016 at 8:06 am
    
    I hope they have.
    Anyone who cares about New Zealand’s sovereignty should.
    
    Did you read Rod Oram’s excellent article on the matter?
    http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/opinion-analysis/76114721/rod-oram-dark-clouds-on-the-horizon
    And have you read legal experts’ view on the TPP?
    https://tpplegal.wordpress.com/nzlf-expert-paper-series/
Penny Bright 3

25 January 2016 at 8:40 am

I predict that the Auckland Town Hall will be PACKED!

Want a seat?

Get there early ….. 🙂

Want to hear the other side of the story to PM John Key’s ‘spin’ on the TPPA?

PUBLIC MEETING!

WHERE: Auckland Town Hall.
WHEN: Tuesday 26 January 2016
TIME: 7pm

SPEAKERS: Lori Wallach (Public Citizen USA)
Professor Jane Kelsey

POLITICAL PANEL:

Labour Party: Grant Robertson
Green Party: Metiria Turei
NZ First: Fletcher Tabateau
Maori Party: Marama Fox

http://thedailyblog.co.nz/2016/01/23/exclusive-an-open-invitation-from-professor-jane-kelsey/

Ever heard Lori Wallach talk about the stark realities of US politics on the TPPA?

If you have, you won’t want to miss her again!

If you haven’t, this is a once in a lifetime chance to hear her on how the US and its corporate lobby stitched us up, and sold out ordinary Americans as well. (for Lori’s bio – see here)

Can the US Congress stop the deal?

Will the US Congress stop the deal?

What happens if Hillary Clinton wins the presidency?

Or Donald Trump (assuming that is worse … which it has to be)

Are US politicians serious that they will rewrite the deal after it is signed by setting rules for ‘implementation’? What would that mean for Kiwis?
….
_________________________

Penny Bright
2016 Auckland Mayoral candidate.
- Tautuhi 3.1
  
  25 January 2016 at 11:06 pm
  
  Bernie Sanders will trump Clinton, piece of cake and he doesn’t like the TPPA.
Tautoko Mangō Mata 4

25 January 2016 at 8:45 am

Vandana Shiva:

In fact, in the free trade and trade liberalisation regime, which is supposed to end protectionism, IPRs are the main instrument of this new form of protectionism.

http://www.psrast.org/vashipr.htm

Wayne Mapp calls the TPP a “modern FTA”
Lowering a few tariffs, while at the same time increasing Intellectual Property Rights IPRs means that it is a total misrepresentation/lie to imply that the TPP is a Free Trade Agreement.

False advertising or deceptive advertising is the use of false or misleading statements in advertising, and misrepresentation of the product at hand, which may negatively affect many stakeholders, especially consumers.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_advertising
- weka 4.1
  
  25 January 2016 at 10:42 am
  
  I liked the Kelsey video where she states bluntly that this isn’t a trade deal, that the trade part of the TPP is small and that most if it is about giving rights to corporations.
- Draco T Bastard 4.2
  
  25 January 2016 at 10:43 am
  
  What the TPPA and other agreements do is increase protections for corporations while decreasing protections for those that sell their labour. The end result is more political power in the hands of the corporations and less in the hands of the people.
  
  The TPPA takes us further down the road to serfdom. A serfdom that has always been the goal of capitalism.
- Tautuhi 4.3
  
  25 January 2016 at 11:09 pm
  
  If Wayne Mapp was in the Real Estate Industry and advertising like this he would be down in Wellington before the REAA.
Glenn 50 5

25 January 2016 at 9:27 am

Winston Peters…
“If the Opposition was in any way what it should be, [Key] wouldn’t have a hope in Hades.”

“That’s the real test. Whether the Opposition parties mark up, shape up, keep themselves focused, keep their eyes on what the prize should be rather than their own political and egregious self interest and advantage. If they do that, then the Government wouldn’t have a show in its present construction.”

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=11578976
- Paul 5.1
  
  25 January 2016 at 9:31 am
  
  Not so easy when the msm calls this of bs political coverage.
  
  ‘ MPs with bald spots reached for the hats. Andrew Little had a snappy hat but foolishly wore a black suit. NZ First leader Winston Peters took refuge in a tree, from where he quoted Noel Coward: “only fools and Englishmen go out in the midday sun”.’
  
  http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=11579021
  - Jilly Bee 5.1.1
    
    25 January 2016 at 10:28 am
    
    Bill English also wore a dark, if not black suit, but hey, that’s OK as he is not Labour.
    - Paul 5.1.1.1
      
      25 January 2016 at 10:38 am
      
      And Key wore his new flag on his lapel.
      Shameless.
  - Acting up 5.1.2
    
    25 January 2016 at 12:36 pm
    
    “…Winston Peters took refuge in a tree …” In a tree? Love it! Just had a great image of Winnie in a tree, beady eyes peering out at those below like an elderly possum. Surely the writer meant under a tree?
    - Puckish Rogue 5.1.2.1
      
      25 January 2016 at 4:11 pm
      
      Depends on how much he’d had to drink I guess
      - Gangnam Style 5.1.2.1.1
        
        25 January 2016 at 7:54 pm
        
        Winston or Key? They both known for their drinking but Winston still looks sharp & coherent the next day, Key? Not so much…
        
        Tautuhi 5.1.2.1.1.1
        
        25 January 2016 at 11:12 pm
        
        Did any ponytails get pulled?
- weka 5.2
  
  25 January 2016 at 12:28 pm
  
  As is often the case with Peters is he both speaking truth and being a complete hypocrite.
  
  Whether the Opposition parties mark up, shape up, keep themselves focused, keep their eyes on what the prize should be rather than their own political and egregious self interest and advantage
  
  🙄
Andre 6

25 January 2016 at 9:29 am

Paturoa kauri update:

I didn’t see any evidence of browning in the foliage (but I wouldn’t really expect to until another month or two). Since looking at it in the morning means looking into the sun, I couldn’t really assess any subtler hints about foliage colouring or glossiness.

The bandage around the ring-barking has soaked through with sap, but it doesn’t appear to be bleeding trails of sap down the trunk. So I’m cautiously hopeful the sap has gone back to flowing up and down the trunk the way it should.

So on the basis of precisely zero experience or expertise in helping trees recover from ringbarking, my gut feel has gone from “it’s a goner” to “maybe it’s got a teeny-tiny chance”
- Sabine 6.1
  
  25 January 2016 at 10:07 am
  
  i follow it on FB and yes, it seems that there is a small bit of hope for the Kauri and the Rimu. Here is to hoping.
- weka 6.2
  
  25 January 2016 at 10:43 am
  
  Thanks Andre. Do you know what the owners are up to? I assume it was them that paid the company to do the ringbarking. Why are they not finishing off the job?
  - Sabine 6.2.1
    
    25 January 2016 at 11:04 am
    
    https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/court-action-gains-temporary-reprieve-for-ringbarked-kauri
    
    ………..The injunction means all activity has been halted on site until the hearing next year and prevents further harm to both the kauri and rimu pending the judicial review………
    
    The ring barking on both the Kauri and its sister the Rimu happened the night before the injunction was passed.
    The courts found the owners of the property who have ordered the ring barking to be within their rights.
    - Naturesong 6.2.1.1
      
      25 January 2016 at 11:08 am
      
      Wierd, I would have thought that ringbarking the trees with the court decision pending would have resulted in a contempt charge at the very least.
    - weka 6.2.1.2
      
      25 January 2016 at 11:48 am
      
      Thanks Sabine.
- Naturesong 6.3
  
  25 January 2016 at 11:05 am
  
  After it was ringbarked, was there any cambium (tree stem cells) left in the wound?
  - Sabine 6.3.1
    
    25 January 2016 at 11:10 am
    
    i honestly would not know.
    
    I know that Johno administered ‘first aid’ and that maori healers came and did their thing. I am not an arborist, but as of today, people are cautiously optimistic that both trees make it.
    - Naturesong 6.3.1.1
      
      25 January 2016 at 11:19 am
      
      Cheeers,
      
      Keeping my fingers crossed. I’ve not seen a tree recover from such a wound before. But then I’m not an arborist so my knowledge of trees is limited to the general knowledge I need for timber milling, drying, cabinet making etc.
      - Andre 6.3.1.1.1
        
        25 January 2016 at 1:05 pm
        
        Ummm, monkey apples can survive a ringbarking at least 150mm wide all the way around. Several on my place did, anyways.
        
        The photos from Sabine’s tvnz link appear to show continuous bark left across the wound in a few places, so there may be cambium left behind.
        
        I don’t think the rimu got ring-barked, if it did it’s not visible from the road, and I haven’t been keen to go walking down to take a closer look since kauri dieback is prevalent there.
        
        Naturesong 6.3.1.1.1.1
        
        25 January 2016 at 5:33 pm
        
        Cheers
        
        Andre …
        
        25 January 2016 at 7:57 pm
        
        Sorry, I put out some incorrect information earlier.
        
        Went and took a wander down the section and yes, the rimu also got a cut all the way around the trunk. Along with every other tree that was marked with an X that hadn’t been previously felled. Those cuts were hidden by the slash left on the section, so not visible from the road. The malicious orcs had done more damage than I had previously been aware of.
        
        But I didn’t see that any of the others had great chunks of bark taken off the trunk (unlike the kauri), and the foliage on those trees looks normal, and no trails of sap running down the trunks, so maybe they all have a chance.
        
        Also got the neighbours worried again to see another stranger taking an interest in the section.
Wisdumb 7

25 January 2016 at 10:50 am

Malaysia’s parliament votes this week to accept or reject the TPP, first the Lower House then the Senate. The scheduling of the voting shortly before signing makes it look as though this will determine whether the government signs or not (Auckland 4 February) but I am not sure.

Anyone know definitely?

Malaysia and Australia obtained additional exceptions to those our NZ negotiators achieved. These two countries form an interesting comparison for NZ. But zilch do we hear from our MSM.
- Muttonbird 7.1
  
  25 January 2016 at 11:00 am
  
  Interesting that Malaysia would go to the trouble of actually performing the democratic process regarding this issue.
  
  Something for our government to learn?
Puckish Rogue 8

25 January 2016 at 11:11 am

Some interesting threads over the weekend ref: fisi and fourth term for Key

The thing that seemed to come through that I noticed the most was the refrain that “the left need to work together”.

I’m not disagreeing with this at all (at least in regards to a left victory) but what it really needed changing to was “Labour need to work with the rest of the left in NZ” as it seems (admittedly to me) that the left want to work with Labour but Labour isn’t as keen.

Its still a worry though that there are posters who still underestimate John Keys intelligence and this attitude that “hes just a money man”, “the USA tells him what to do” etc etc means some on the left don’t prepare as well as they could (subconsciously not taking him seriously perhaps?)

Also it seems the Labour party (yeah yeah MMP but they’re still the largest party on the left) are out of touch with modern day politicking which considering Lange and Clark went that long ago is a real shame

So yes there will be a fourth term for John Key and while that means the left will win in 2020 it depends on whether the Left want two terms or three if they (the Left) are willing/able to change to modern day NZ
- Stuart Munro 8.1
  
  25 January 2016 at 5:42 pm
  
  Key is an irrelevancy. His government is useless and does nothing.
  
  Only concerted media campaigns and opposition inaction keep him in power.
  
  Most kiwis don’t find him as erotic as fisiani appears to – and those that do will just get cast aside like a used Hosking when Key is done with them.
  
  The parallels with the Milliband Labour party are significant – self-serving self-styled elite wonder why they can’t win.
greywarshark 9

25 January 2016 at 11:30 am

Pat, discussing the left-right divide in politics says, in Fisiani Gets it Right on 23/1 says:
.it certainly appears to me that the younger generations by and large have no points of reference for that positioning and consequently it carries no relevance for them…but naturally those (few) that are politically active and involved at party level tend to have a very firm view in terms of Left/Right so reinforce the dichotomy within.

But this decay away from Labour-left policies started longer ago than you imply Pat. So a good number of older Labour in NZ are similar to the Blairites in Britain and very possibly any oldies with fire in their bellies for ‘the people’ and a fairer, better functioning NZ, are either isolated or dead.

Would anyone who knows like to identify those older Labour members still in a position of power and/or Parliament who not only talk the talk but walk the walk?
- Pat 9.1
  
  26 January 2016 at 5:06 am
  
  “But this decay away from Labour-left policies started longer ago than you imply Pat. So a good number of older Labour in NZ are similar to the Blairites in Britain and very possibly any oldies with fire in their bellies for ‘the people’ and a fairer, better functioning NZ, are either isolated or dead.’
  
  don’t necessarily disagree with that greywarshark, but I was responding to a comment from CV that implied (to me at least) that there was no future in presenting policy in terms of left/right….just as there are few remaining veterans of WW2 who’s experiences tempered our society for so long after that event there are few who recall the great conflict of ideas of last century…..increasingly to those in positions of influence it is ancient history, not something their parents, grandparents experienced and perhaps formed….what do we care of the politics of ancient Rome, the Chinese dynasties,the French revolution and the like when forming our opinions today? I suggest the Left/Right struggle of last century has as much relevance to the young(er) of today and is as misunderstood….rightly or wrongly.
  
  The lessons will have to be relearned…their own way.
  - greywarshark 9.1.1
    
    26 January 2016 at 10:39 am
    
    Pat
    Hmmm interesting. Someone emphasised the other day that the era of Rome and its politics is not far away from what is occurring today. I think his point was that it is all cyclical, and you refer to the conflict of ideas and systems in the history of other countries. There is a problem with older people with long memories, if they haven’t learned anything from their experience after rumination and reflection, with discussion of the events.
    
    Do older people once involved in war, have a considered opinion about it, or do they just go through the ceremonies each year? Here at the Anzac Day church-run short civic gathering, the same words are repeated each year, reverential, memorial, but not disturbing the air and ears with anti-war poems or comment. That seems too real, questioning the waste of life.
    
    There was no room for the presentation by young peaceniks of white poppies representing peace, perhaps a tacit honouring of the student protesters in Germany using white roses as their badge I think, and who were caught and dispatched early on. The RSA was angry to have them offered, only partly I think because the red poppies raise money for assistance to the returned servicepeople.
    
    Also discussed recently was the word ‘cynical’. The conclusion was that it can get to be a kneejerk reaction that implicitly claims a superior understanding, but is actually closed, negative, simplistic, and lazy. So I think that position applies to the idea that left/right is completely passe’. It is indeed a useful term for broadly discussing themes of political power and of wealth versus wider concern for the populace and the differing attitudes to a resource-controlling status quo. As you say –
    
    The lessons will have to be relearned…their own way.
    
    edited
greywarshark 10

25 January 2016 at 11:55 am

Here’s a citizen who will be missed by people interested in good enterprise in our country. Barry Brickell was a man with many good visions that advanced NZ and the will to be the one to advance them.

Potter, artist, conservationist and railway enthusiast Barry Brickell moved to the Coromandel to teach high school in the 1960s.

But less than a year later he abandoned teaching to set up a pottery studio and kiln on a property in Driving Creek, north of the town of Coromandel.
Fifty years later he had become one of New Zealand’s most celebrated ceramic artists and had restored hectares of native bush and created a wildlife sanctuary.

Most famously he spent 33 years building the Driving Creek Railway – a popular tourist attraction that has now carried close to 1.25 million passengers.

http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/294797/artist-barry-brickell-dies-aged-80

A long interview on Spectrum from last year.
http://www.radionz.co.nz/audio/player/201776571
greywarshark 11

25 January 2016 at 12:11 pm

Gold rush mentality in this country. Using up this country’s resources of beauty and natural goodness. An Eden into a Den of thieves.
Dairy – Overproduction, unhealthy financial dependence, pollution, utilising resources from overseas unfairly. (Milk – More milk perhaps. Sheep milk is being looked at as a possible growth market.)

Tourism – Up from 3 million visitors to 5 million a year is the prediction.
Consequence – overuse of the attractions, trashing of the country, and pricing out the inhabitants. It costs $50 to say at a hut on one of the tracks I think it was Routeburn.
How can people ever afford to get to know and enjoy their own country. They can’t afford to live in a poor dwelling – just like good old Brit was like when we left it in the 1800s.

Freedom tourists –
DoC figures show the number of tourists on all nine Great Walks has increased by 10 percent a year for the past three years.
The Routeburn and Milford tracks and huts, which cost $54 a night per adult, are fully booked for this season ending on 27 April.
http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/294829/rogue-campers-%27ruining%27-great-walks
Morrissey 12

25 January 2016 at 12:17 pm

Right wing think tanks, Matthew Hooton, and Stephen Franks to come:
Why is there such dismal political commentary on RNZ National?
Nine to Noon, Monday 25 January 2016

At 9:30, Kathryn Ryan interviewed—or, more accurately, provided an uncontested free pulpit to—one Andrew Bishop, who rejoices in the splendid title of “senior analyst” for the right wing “think tank” the Eurasia Group. Bishop talked for fifteen minutes, during which he managed to get away with making the extraordinary assertion that the United States was not really involved in either Syria or Ukraine. As is too often the case, Kathryn Ryan didn’t seem to have a clue; about the only thing she said in the whole fifteen minutes was to observe, in a tone of high seriousness, that the United States was suffering “intervention fatigue.”

After the 11 o’clock news, it was time for the forum now entitled “Political Commentators Matthew Hooton and Stephen Mills”. It should actually be called “Matthew Hooton Straight and Uninterrupted”; after a promising first appearance just before Christmas, Mills has not taken long to slip into playing Colmes to Hooton’s Hannity, a soul-destroying rôle which until recently was filled by the hapless Mike “I Agree With Matthew” Williams. Hooton can, if nothing else, sense weakness in an adversary, and he’s already dominating Mills. Today, the only hint of passion from Mills came when he guffawed derisively after Hooton said, “There’s no homelessness of any note in Auckland.”

He had nothing else to offer, however. Even the supine Kathryn Ryan did better: she told Hooton he should have listened to her first guest this morning….
http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/ninetonoon/audio/201786658/compliance-issues-with-construction-in-auckland

And the bad news just keeps getting worse: Jim Mora’s guests on The Panel this afternoon are Stephen Franks and Josie Pagani.
- Gabby 12.1
  
  25 January 2016 at 10:04 pm
  
  What the hell is going on with Kathryn Ryan’s speaking? She sounds weird.
  - Morrissey 12.1.1
    
    26 January 2016 at 9:18 am
    
    Yes, Gabby, that’s something I have long considered commenting on, but have refrained from for fear of seeming petty and mean. I’m glad to see that you have also noticed her occasional affectation of an absurdly correct and slow manner of speaking, especially when speaking to someone she is trying to, for whatever reason, to impress.
    
    Another of her verbal tics, which really annoys me, is the way she adds the tag “Yeah?” to the end of a question. Jim Mora also does this.
Andre 13

25 January 2016 at 1:40 pm

Wonder how the gun nuts are going to claim the answer to this one is more guns?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/gun-shop-owner-and-son-die-in-shootout-over-25-service-charge_us_56a54bbde4b0d8cc109a74cf
- Puckish Rogue 13.1
  
  25 January 2016 at 2:07 pm
  
  Well the first thing the USA needs to do is to start enforcing the gun laws they already have
  
  http://thefederalist.com/2016/01/18/mike-rowe-explains-why-obamas-gun-control-push-wont-stop-bad-guys/
  
  They could also do worse then make the gun laws federal rather then state responsibility (not ever going to happen of course)
  
  The focus in the USA, especially in the media, seems to be on “assault weapons”, specially AK and M16 type rifles, which no one really knows how it came up:
  
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assault_weapon
  
  Yet the biggest problem by far, in fact its not even close, is pistols:
  
  https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in-the-u.s.-2011/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-8
  
  (interesting to note knives are second only to pistols for killing)
  
  So another possibility is for the USA to maybe look at other western countries and see how they run things
  
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_Canada
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_New_Zealand
  - joe90 13.1.1
    
    25 January 2016 at 2:36 pm
    
    Yet the biggest problem by far, in fact its not even close, is pistols:
    
    The biggest problem by far is self inflicted gunshots .
    
    Firearm suicides
    
    Number of deaths: 21,175
    Deaths per 100,000 population: 6.7
    
    http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/suicide.htm
    - Puckish Rogue 13.1.1.1
      
      25 January 2016 at 2:43 pm
      
      http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2014-12-20/mental-illness-history-ruled-on-appeal-to-not-bar-gun-ownership
      
      I’m not suggesting everyone whoever killed themselves has a mental illness but I’d say theres probably a high percentage
      
      But what to do about the mentally ill and owning firearms…I really don’t have an answer
      - joe90 13.1.1.1.1
        
        25 January 2016 at 2:54 pm
        
        Not so much mental health, more availability and moments of madness.
        
        Though guns are not the most common method by which people attempt suicide, they are the most lethal. About 85 percent of suicide attempts with a firearm end in death. (Drug overdose, the most widely used method in suicide attempts, is fatal in less than 3 percent of cases.) Moreover, guns are an irreversible solution to what is often a passing crisis. Suicidal individuals who take pills or inhale car exhaust or use razors have time to reconsider their actions or summon help. With a firearm, once the trigger is pulled, there’s no turning back.
        
        http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/magazine-features/guns-and-suicide-the-hidden-toll/
        
        Puckish Rogue 13.1.1.1.1.1
        
        25 January 2016 at 3:15 pm
        
        The problem is though that if these individuals don’t have pistols (I’m guessing hand guns would be more used) then they’ll use some other method so it won’t really treat the underlying issue of why people are wanting to commit suicide
        
        Gangnam Style …
        
        25 January 2016 at 7:58 pm
        
        Yeah, guns are great http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2015/02/18/woman-kills-self-adjusting-bra-holster/23640143/ & the guy the other day who accidently shot the woman at the movie theatre had the gun on him to protect him from a possible mass theatre shooting. http://www.salon.com/2016/01/22/toxic_gun_culture_at_work_13_hours_theater_shooting_accident_a_sobering_sign_of_our_concealed_carry_times/
  - Tautuhi 13.1.2
    
    25 January 2016 at 11:24 pm
    
    What do people need AK47’s and M16’s for shooting herds of possums?
- One Two 13.2
  
  25 January 2016 at 9:55 pm
  
  Given the way its headed, the answer is , more guns
  
  Just ask the Swiss
joe90 14

25 January 2016 at 5:40 pm

Interesting article on feathered friends gone wild.

http://www.nature.com/news/when-chickens-go-wild-1.19195
joe90 15

25 January 2016 at 6:23 pm

A couple of days ago I posted an article about the harassment of Jane Mayer, an author critical of the Koch brothers.

Excerpts from Jane Mayer’s book.

sean @SeanMcElwee

The Kochs are buying up high schools and teaching students that minimum wages hurt the poor and the New Deal failed. pic.twitter.com/87PIEE3baC

Follow
sean @SeanMcElwee

Holy. Shit. Holy shit. Holy shit. There are literally no words for how fucked up this is. http://www.amazon.com/Dark-Money-History-Billionaires-Radical/dp/0307970655 … pic.twitter.com/KorQhru8pY

https://twitter.com/SeanMcElwee/status/691134628653068288
Once was TiM 16

25 January 2016 at 7:30 pm

A public service announcement.
We’re not allowed to ask if Magisterium is [deleted] in drag – or even if [deleted]
Warning warning warning [deleted].
No fuck it ….. BAN!

[lprent: No you aren’t. Banned 1 week as a gentle reminder, and I’d strongly suggest that you don’t ever try to game the privacy policy again. ]
Gangnam Style 17

25 January 2016 at 10:47 pm

Evil evil bastards, http://www.rawstory.com/2016/01/revealed-environmental-officials-warned-snyder-administration-not-to-use-water-that-poisoned-flint/ & a someone I know over there emailed this to me “There is mounting evidence that the entire goal was to undermine the financial stability of the Detriot Water and Sewerage Dept so as to justify its breakup and privatization thereby brokering control of one of the largest aquifers in the Midwest. Water is the new oil and we are only seeing the beginnings of the resource grab.”