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Open Mike 26/01/2018

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, January 26th, 2018 - 157 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose. The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

157 comments on “Open Mike 26/01/2018”

  1. Ed 1

    I see Kate Hawkesby now has a regular column with the Herald.
    So 2 households (Mike and Kate and Barry and Heather) get 4 platforms in the paper.
    Mike also has a radio show.

    Wouldn’t it be nice to have a more diverse media than this?

    • cleangreen 1.1

      Yes Ed,

      It is part of their ‘Lodge’ links that this lobbyist group are being installed to rail against the new labour lead government and get funding instead of labour’s plan to fund a new media public affairs channel.

      Pathetic is it not, while I am sure that ex minister of Broadcasting Steven Joyce is behind the scene here pulling all the right buttons to complete his media propaganda channel to spout his propaganda.

      Stick to your plan Broadcasting Minister Clare Curran, and labour to provide us with another version of the famed Channel seven public affairs ‘investigative journalism portal please so we again have a voicwith reason and truth.

    • James 1.2

      They are all media professionals in their own right.

      It’s not uncommon for people to marry people in their own field.

      They get the jobs because a lot of people like them.

      And it might be different in your household but I believe that in their households the woman is allowed her own opinion (which in this case she can publish)

      • They get the jobs because a lot of people like them.

        Is it because a lot of people like them or because the manager likes them?

        Last time I looked it wasn’t a lot of people hiring them but the manager. And the manager got their job because the owner likes them.

        • James

          People -meaning viewers or listeners.

          • Sam

            Are you functionally retarded? Media only shows you what makes rich people even richer.

            • James

              Really ?

              Ignoring your rude comments – esp given that mental health issues and impairment are really not something to be thrown around for your petty amusement.

              You are incorrect in your statement.

              • Sam

                So do you think good ways in your head but when you go to articulate those thoughts either verbally or through your key board it comes out all, emotionally and physically challenged like your hands do something different that you mind can’t control I think is a valid assessment. So now the question remains…

                Apart from your physical health why isn’t the Hosk trending?

              • cleangreen

                James you can do better than throw abuse around cant you?

                Lets play nice can we?+

          • cleangreen


            ‘They get the jobs because a lot of people like them.
            People -meaning viewers or listeners.’

            James stop smoking that weed will you; – that makes no sense as we hate the man known as the ’11 billion dollar lie man.’

            Joyce is as crooked as a tee tree branch.

            Joyce was alleged by Matthew Hooten to be making shady deals with road transport contractors up to One hundred million dollars when he was the tar-seal king as ‘Minister of Transport’ as he deliberately destroyed our public rail asset.

            You think we should like this evil man?

            Go away sicko.

            • Sam

              Hmmm… Idk…

              New Zealand has two official languages and one unofficial language namely English mainly being used for business and everyday use. Māori & sign language find difficulty establishing themselves among young people because the move is towards English and off course we’ve come to westernisation and lose of traditional culture. So therefor how do we draw from traditional cultures and I think that is difficult to find amongst young people because there is no love, not even love but interest in traditional cultures, and artists will try and integrate these different cultures into there cultural work and we find that young people will not necessarily be interested in that work and that’s the problem.

            • Planet Earth

              Could you please provide a link, reference or citation re this Matthew “Hooten” allegation?

              • alwyn

                I think you will find that, like many of his statements, it is simply a figment of his imagination.
                Rather like his claim that Joyce had been Minister of Broadcasting. I’ve asked him for some evidence of that but none has been forthcoming.

              • cleangreen

                planet earth,

                Don’t listen to Alwyn,

                He poo poos anyone you gets close to his precious mates in National.

                He is another troll from the dying national camp.


                Hotten blurted it in front of Mike Williams, Michelle Boag, and Mark Sainsbury on his show on radio live in 2014 so look up the series when after the day the disgraced Judith Collins was fired by john Key.

                Help you enjoy the show as it was so so so revealing.

                I am not surprised because “Mr Tarseal” was into roads roads and more roads in a big way at the time while closing rail almost everywhere. and is still trying to force labour to keep the road ‘Dreadnought ‘RONS’ alive today so;

                Watch this space.

                • alwyn

                  Oh dear. More bs from your fertile imagination.

                  “He poo poos anyone you gets close to his precious mates in National.
                  He is another troll from the dying national camp.”

                  Neither of those statements has even the remotest connection with reality I haven’t the slightest connection with the National Party.

                  You are, I suspect, well classified by a paraphrasing of Will Roger’s great line. He said “I am not a member of any organized political party. I am a Democrat …”.
                  Is it fair to describe you by offering
                  “cleangreen is not a member of any organized political party. He is a Green Party supporter”?

                  • cleangreen

                    Firstly Alwyn;

                    Are you a left or right wing supporter?

                    If so which party do you prefer?

                    Wished you read my npast comments on who i voted for then you would be right not wrong as you are now.
                    Quote Alwyn;
                    “Is it fair to describe you by offering
                    “cleangreen is not a member of any organized political party. He is a Green Party supporter”?

                    case closed.

                    • alwyn

                      So the answer you are giving to my question of “would it be fair” is a firm and unequivocal No I assume.
                      You are not a Green Party supporter then.

                      I am, personally, a traditional swinging voter. I vote for the party I believe will give New Zealand the best Government in the next term.
                      As I have commented earlier that means, since 1981, I have voted 5 times for Labour, 7 times for National and once, while living overseas I did not vote.
                      If you had read my past comments on who I voted for you would have realised that describing me as part of the National Party camp was simply rubbish.

                      In general I do not believe any party should be in power for more than 3 terms. In last years election however there seemed to be no alternative. The Labour Party, as they are demonstrating, were in no fit shape to lead a Government and New Zealand will suffer for it.
                      By the way, are you planning to answer my request for information on when Joyce was Minister of Broadcasting?

                • Planet earth

                  Thanks for the link clean green. I have to say it was pretty unconvincing, an obviously hyped-up Matthew Horton making an unstubstantiated allegation that Stephen Joyce had rung a contractor and asked him to vary the terms!

            • James

              I don’t smoke weed – or anything else for that matter.

              Given that you called Joyce the minister of broadcasting before – just shows that you are ignorant, telling lies, or simply stupid.

              But hey if you want to publicly state that Joyce has been making shady deals feel free – if love you to back it up – but more so to help held to account for your bullshit.

              • cleangreen

                TO; James,

                Ha ha ha You lost here again so weep, so here it is again see at 27.52 secs of this debate between Matthew Hooten, Michelle Boag Mike Williams and Mark Sainsbury.

                So you can apologise for your slander any time now.


                I’ve archived it here too (audio player below) because RadioLIVE only keeps 7 days audio available and I’ve noticed sometimes Mediaworks launders its talkback station’s audio feed when things get … contentious.

                Mark Sainsbury hosts ‘Sunday morning’ at RadioLIVE with guests Michelle Boag, Mike Williams, Matthew Hooton & Duncan Garner 31 Aug 2014
                MP3 file

          • Draco T Bastard

            They don’t get to make the decision either.

    • mary_a 1.3

      @ Ed (1) … NZH getting as many Natz sympathisers on board as possible. Keeping it in the family. More the merrier to spout the BS, putting the boot into the coalition government!

      Agree some fresh alternative perspective in msm is well overdue to balance the equation. But while Natz still pulls media strings, that could be a long time coming!

      • cleangreen 1.3.1


        Agreed fully with all here change the rotten media as Hoooten said in Sainsbury’s clip ‘the rot needs to be cut out of the national party as i say begin with Steven Joyce Matthew Hooten is gunning for there.

    • patricia bremner 1.4

      Sure would Ed!!

  2. Ed 2

    Martin Bradbury expresses his views on Guyon Espiner.

    “Don Brash was resentful that he has to wake up and listen to Te Reo on Radio NZ each morning, while the rest of us feel resentful having to wake up to Guyon Espiner each morning. “

    • James 2.1

      Didn’t know that “bomber” was able to speak for the “rest” of us.

      The guys a fool.

      • One Two 2.1.1

        So agressive, Jim Jam..

        More phoney outrage…easy to spot…

        Your phoney employees must enjoy having you as “boss-man’…

        Is it difficult running a team of online tr*lls, James?…

        What sort of questions do you ask during interviews?…

        Or do your like minded ‘mates’ help out for a little extra scratch and a wind up…


        [Leave it out. Cheers.] – Bill

        • James

          Gee. One Two – you seem a little aggressive this morning.

          I won’t give my full reply in order not to encourage you any more – respecting the bold mod comments.

          • One Two

            Do you still beat your wife ….

            The projection, shameless and juvenile it is, along with the ‘sycophantic appeal to (mod) authority’ continues, what I believe to be a deliberate mocking of this blog site…

            With the enabling of agitators such as ‘James’ to undermine the site , while simultaneously shedding legitimately interested, and interesting commentators…

            IMO, continuing mockery is a greater risk to this site than the repeated signaling of it being unsafe for female commentators…

            @ Bill….Noted

            • James

              You do know that it was Mac1 that started with the do you still beat your wife comments right ?

              You might have missed that in your hurry to insult me.

              BTW – checked again this morning. The people I hired still insist I’m an employer despite me telling them that I cannot be since “one two” from the standard has been telling people I’m not.

              Just to point out other juvenile behaviour (not to forget your post above).

              • One Two

                They’re ‘your’ words in your comment, James…Own it!

                So you told your ’employees’ about a commentator on a blog site questioning both yours, and their’role’ status…

                No, you didn’t…

                I’ve made my opinion and position clear through my comments…and no, James, they’re not insults…

                James’ purpose, is as an agitator who mocks this site with ‘his’ presence…

                I wish you well on the journey of personal growth…

                Perhaps ‘share’ that with your employees, instead…

                • Stunned Mullet

                  Fine sock puppet.

                • james

                  “They’re ‘your’ words in your comment, James…Own it!”

                  oh yes they are – but IF you can read the thread – you will see it is directly in reply to the same comment.

                  its call a thread – and you have to read the entire thing to get an understanding of the conversation.

                  I agree that I made those comments, but if you have issue with them being used – perhaps take it up with the person who starts using it as an argument.

                  That was perfectly clear – but I think you have started to develop an unhealthy fascination – with me.

                  No problem engaging with you – just try to keep up and read the entire conversation. Its OK it it takes a while.

                  • Sam

                    Are you different in real life to how you act here because you lie. Actually a really famous case that was proven to be fabricated with involvement from SIS was the fake wine bottle given to cunlif and smearing of Phill Goff. So LIES.

                    • james

                      Sam – I think you need to lay off whatever it is that is causing your little meltdowns.

                      Cheer up – Its a beautiful summers evening.

                    • Sam

                      Oh you imagined me going something in your mind. How sweet.

                    • Ed

                      Of course he is.
                      He is a fake character, a stereotype. The personality James has is a fiction of the person who created this online identity.
                      I imagine the real James is an angry young man, no boat, no bbq, not many friends.
                      But a lonely character who spends his time trolling here to give his life some purpose and to earn a few dollars at the same time.

                      Anyway he is ruining this site.

              • cleangreen

                What a droll person would say there James you are on the bottom of the barrel now.

            • Ed

              I believe James and his ilk drive a lot of people from this site.
              I believe that is one of their jobs.
              Shameless and juvenile sums them up.
              And they are damaging this site as a useful place to chat.

      • cleangreen 2.1.2

        ‘The guys a fool’.

        Like you are James.

    • red-blooded 2.2

      I think Espiner does a good job, actually. He’s an intelligent, well-informed journalist with well-honed interviewing skills. I think he plays an effective role as a public service broadcaster. I know some people here see him as biased, but I don’t agree. He and Susie Ferguson are a big improvement on their predecessors and make a good team.

    • No doubt Espiner was crushed that a journalist of Martyn Bradbury’s standing holds so poor an opinion of him. Or, not. Espiner is at least capable of writing a paragraph that doesn’t make me itch to correct all the spelling and grammatical errors.

  3. Tony Veitch (not etc) 3

    We are probably all aware how ‘big’ Tobacco hid their knowledge that smoking caused health risks – in the interests of profit. We have also found out that the Oil industry was well aware of the adverse effects of use of their product on the earth, but said nothing because their bottom line would suffer!

    Well, I think, as a country, we should be questioning the ethics of our free trade deal with the Peoples’ Republic of China.

    With the rise to power of Xi JinPing, China has moved inexorably towards the sort of society it was under Chairman Mao. Civil rights have been suppressed, not only in Tibet and Xinjiang but throughout the country. A cult of personality is being woven round Xi – to the extent that his ‘thoughts’ have become part of the curriculum of many universities.

    “Top Chinese University Opens Institute to Study ‘Xi Jinping Thought’
    “One of China’s most prestigious universities has set up a research institute for the study of President Xi Jinping’s political “thought,” the latest of dozens of higher education institutions to do the same.”


    Ethnic minorities are being repressed – it’s not too much to suggest the Chinese government is indulging in ‘creeping genocide’ in Tibet and Xinjiang.

    “Around 120,000 Uyghurs Detained For Political Re-Education in Xinjiang’s Kashgar Prefecture
    “Around 120,000 ethnic Uyghurs are currently being held in political re-education camps in Kashgar (in Chinese, Kashi) prefecture of northwest China’s Xinjiang region alone, according to a security official with knowledge of the detention system.

    “Since April 2017, Uyghurs accused of harbouring “extremist” and “politically incorrect” views have been jailed or detained in re-education camps throughout Xinjiang, where members of the ethnic group have long complained of pervasive discrimination, religious repression, and cultural suppression under Chinese rule.”


    Other countries have recognised this repression and have said so.
    “European Parliament Calls Out China on Repression in Tibet
    In a resolution passed by a majority of votes, members of the European Parliament called on China on Thursday to respect provisions in its own constitution guaranteeing the rights of Tibetans and other Chinese citizens to freedom of speech, religious belief, and assembly, including the right to criticize or protest against state policy.”


    It is, I know, too much to expect our government to take a ‘moral’ stand and criticise the Chinese government. But we, should, we really should!

    • Ed 3.1

      Of course we should.
      It is probably too late now. The National Party is now dependent on Chinese money and Labour set up the Chinese ‘free trade’ deal.

      • James 3.1.1

        You think Labour didn’t take Chinese money ?

        • mac1

          A better question to ask is do you have evidence as a basis for your question, or are you still beating your wife?

          cf https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loaded_question

          • James

            Of course there is evidence that labour take donations from Chinese.

            What the heck so you think they do – refuse every donation with a Chinese sounding surname ?

            • mac1

              If there is evidence show it.

              You are being disingenuous if you do not understand that “Chinese money’ is a reference not to ordinary donations to a political party but large sums often from business or official sources offered with strings attached in terms of political or financial favours.

              Some would call it dirty money, or bribes, inducements or ‘facilitation’.

              • James

                Oh that’s easy – do you have any evidence of proven bribes or stings attached ?

                Or do you still beat your wife?

                On the same front – labour seem to have taken a lot of money from unions…….

                • mac1

                  Mate, you’re the one making as yet unsubstantiated claims. I’m calling you on yours.

                  So far your debating arsenal has used loaded questions, avoidance of issues, false attribution, and now straw men.

                  What’s next in the Crosby-Textor nexus??

                • Craig H

                  Yes, because the unions are founding members of Labour, are NZ legal persons, and in many cases have been around for decades.

            • Draco T Bastard

              Ban all political donations from people who are not NZ citizens and from all organisations.

              Stop permanent residents from voting.

              EDIT: Actually, just get rid of the Permanent Resident status

              • Bill

                Thank you Draco T 🙂

                Question. As a non-voting and non-permanent resident, what’s the idea around where I might live? Kicked out, or just a “second class” citizen? Maybe compelled to become “a New Zealander”?

                I’d get a bit grumpy about that, seeing as how I quite enjoy my almost stateless (ie – country of birth not recognised as a state), yet protected status 🙂

                • If you don’t want to become a NZer why are you living here?

                  • Bill

                    Would you ask Roma in Spain why they lived in Spain but weren’t Spanish? What’s the decision or choice or opportunity to live in a place got to do with adopting the identity of others who live in that same place?

                  • Craig H

                    Some countries don’t allow dual citizenship e.g. China, and people don’t want to lose the ability visit their home country at any time for any reason. NZ citizens enjoy the flexibility to remain citizens if they take up citizenship elsewhere, but not all countries are so kind.

                    • Some countries don’t allow dual citizenship e.g. China, and people don’t want to lose the ability visit their home country at any time for any reason.

                      That’s not our problem at all.

                      And I happen to think that NZ shouldn’t allow dual citizenship either.

                • alwyn

                  ‘Compelled to become a “New Zealander”‘.
                  Some investigation would be required. There is a little kicker in that. One of the conditions, in addition to those I included in my comment just below about becoming a citizen is
                  “•you’re of good character”.
                  Do you qualify?

              • alwyn

                What would you have instead of a Permanent Resident status?
                If you simply abolished it it would be impossible for anyone to come here as an immigrant and to then become a citizen.

                The requirements for becoming a citizen are, in part, and according to the Immigration department.

                “You will have to meet the following criteria to be granted citizenship:
                1. You already have the right to be in NZ indefinitely (you’re a permanent resident of NZ or Australia, or you’re Australian)
                2. you’ve lived here for at least the last 5 years

                Nobody could ever qualify if there was no such status grantable.

                I can agree partly with your first proposal although I think the Labour Party would scream if Union donations were banned.
                I totally agree that only citizens should be allowed to vote. The current situation is crazy.

                • What would you have instead of a Permanent Resident status?
                  If you simply abolished it it would be impossible for anyone to come here as an immigrant and to then become a citizen.

                  Change the immigration process. You apply, get through the good character and other tests and get a issued a five year visa.

                  Shouldn’t have the requirement that you should be able to live here indefinitely as no one who isn’t a citizen should be able to live here indefinitely.

                  I can agree partly with your first proposal although I think the Labour Party would scream if Union donations were banned.

                  They’d get over it. In fact, go back a couple of decades or so and both National and Labour were mass member parties having around 10% of the voting population as members each.

                  I tend to be in favour of people belonging to the political party of their choice and being politically active.

                  • alwyn

                    Basically it would be exactly the same as the Permanent Residence Visa but would have a time limit. You still wouldn’t need a re-entry visa or so-on up till the expiry date if you wanted to travel.
                    I guess if you made the date a year after you could apply for citizenship it could work.
                    Only problem I could see is if you were employed in a job that required you to travel overseas a lot. The thing that could bite you would be this little clause.

                    “You need to have been physically present in New Zealand for a certain amount of time during the last 5 years. The 5 years is counted backwards from the day you apply for citizenship.
                    You might not meet this requirement if you have been out of NZ for longer than 4 months in any 1 year. This could be 1 long trip or many smaller trips.”
                    “To meet the requirement, you need to have been in New Zealand for:
                    at least 240 days in each year, and
                    1350 days across the 5 years.”

                    You could have someone who is involved in international marketing for F&P Healthcare or Fonterra say who might be an enormous and possibly irreplaceable asset to New Zealand but who simply cannot qualify because (s)he travels for 5 months of the year.

                    I suppose there could be something worked out. In general I approve of people becoming citizens if they plan to stay here.
                    I left Australia not long after I was eligible to become a citizen. I really didn’t want to do it and I thought I should get out of the country if I felt that way.

                    I get Super over here of course and I have met New Zealand citizens who came back here at 60 because they were going to be eligible. The Australian asset testing rules are quite mad.

                • Craig H

                  The citizenship criteria on the DIA website is slightly misleading – the Citizenship Act actually says ” entitled in terms of the Immigration Act 2009 to be in New Zealand indefinitely.”

                  Any residence class visa meets that requirement – there are two currently in the Immigration Act, being the resident visa and the permanent resident visa.

        • cleangreen

          Proof please James,

          • James

            To which comment ?

            • cleangreen

              Labour recieving chinese money?

              James 3.1.1
              26 January 2018 at 9:06 am
              You think Labour didn’t take Chinese money ?

              • james

                You know that is a question not a statement right?

                Ill give you a clue – the ? at the end gives it away.

                But if it helps – here is one who donated – and got a special citizen ceremony against all advise – but Im sure that that had nothing to do with the donations.

                *Yes – I know he donated to National as well.

    • Wei 3.2

      “it’s not too much to suggest the Chinese government is indulging in ‘creeping genocide’ in Tibet and Xinjiang.”

      What an arrant load of nonsense!

      If the Chinese government was really interested in the “genocide” of Tibetans and Uighurs it has had close to a good 70 years to do so.

      Mao ruled China for 27 years, much of that time, almost completely shut off from the outside world – 600 million or so Han Chinese could have easily exterminated 1 or 2 million Tibetans —if they had such intentions. But of course there was never any such intention —the intention was actually to improve the lives of Tibetans, as it still is today.

      Exempting minorities from the one child population, and increasing their populations are hardly indicators of genocidal intent.

      And Tibetans and Uighurs retain a good deal more of their language and traditions than most indigenous people colonized by Anglo Saxons.

      Almost all Tibetans are fully fluent in Tibetan, as are other minorities in their respective languages. Bilingual education is not only supported but mandated by the Chinese government.https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-94-011-4531-2_16

      Compare this to the parlous state of the Maori language in New Zealand – a minority of Maori are fluent speakers of Te Reo

  4. Incognito 4

    Mr Jones said at the time not all of his Labour colleagues saw eye-to-eye with him on his proposal.

    Labour set to reveal plan to help unemployed youth

    Oops 😉


    • red-blooded 4.1

      Willie Jackson has already rebutted the “work for the dole” concept this morning on RNZ. The article doesn’t explore the Labour viewpoint, but the interview does.


      The big difference, of course, is the payment of at least the minimum wage. It also seems to be about giving support to employers, not just bringing people into special public work schemes. More details are coming out later today.

      He was also saying it’s not going to be a punitive scheme (a reply to a question about whether people would have their benefits cut if they didn’t opt in or turn up). I guess we’ll find out more when the details are released.

  5. cleangreen 5

    Blog today 26-1-2018.

    Public health subject;


    Why can’t NZ water scientists speak up for using Hydrogen Peroxide (H2O2) rather than the toxic cancer causing chlorine in our water supply as other countries do so widely now.

    Wake up NZ remember when we were really “clean-green?

    H2O2 is Widely Used
    Since it was first commercialized in the 1800’s, hydrogen peroxide production has now grown to over a billion pounds per year (as 100%). In addition to pollution control, hydrogen peroxide is used to bleach textiles and paper products, and to manufacture or process foods, minerals, petrochemicals, and consumer products (detergents). Its use for pollution control parallels those of the movement itself — municipal wastewater applications in the 1970’s; industrial waste/wastewater applications in the 1980’s; and more recently, air applications in the 1990’s. Today, hydrogen peroxide is readily available throughout the U.S. in drum, tote, mini-bulk, and bulk quantities in concentrations of 35% or 50% by weight.

    This is Hydrogen Peroxide
    Hydrogen Peroxide Powerful OxidizerAs simple as it may seem, the treatment of contaminated waters is as diverse and complicated as the operations from which it comes. In today’s environment, where merely transferring contaminants from one medium to another is no longer acceptable, it is no surprise that a powerful oxidizer like hydrogen peroxide that looks like water — in its appearance, chemical formula and reaction products — should be so widely used. This is hydrogen peroxide (H2O2) — a powerful yet versatile oxidant that is both safe and effective.

    • Probably because they’re not stupid and don’t want to kill everyone.

      Accidental ingestion of 35% hydrogen peroxide

      Hydrogen peroxide is a commonly used oxidizing agent with a variety of uses depending on its concentration. Ingestion of hydrogen peroxide is not an uncommon source of poisoning, and results in morbidity through three main mechanisms: direct caustic injury, oxygen gas formation and lipid peroxidation.

      Hydrogen Peroxide Cures Ailments

      As to what to make of the numerous claims asserted of the hydrogen peroxide, in the main, most external uses of household-strength hydrogen peroxide are relatively harmless (if not necessarily helpful), but internal use should be shunned. Gargle with it, wipe wounds with it, foam the wax out of your ears with it, bleach your hair and your clothes with it, but don’t drink it or let someone shoot it into your veins.

      • James 5.1.1

        Hahahahahha – we’ll, yes, that would be a good reason.

      • Rosemary McDonald 5.1.2

        “…but internal use should be shunned.”

        Not so long ago, hydrogen peroxide would be poured into open wounds to sterilise and debride. And oh it was good at lifting that hard to shift necrotic tissue and sloughy shit. It would fizz and sting in a most therapeutic kinda way. But…it tended to kill newly forming healthy tissue…it impeded granulation.

        Manuka honey, is much gentler…https://www.webmd.com/a-to-z-guides/manuka-honey-medicinal-uses#1

        Also….while good for wound cleaning and healing, manuka honey, combined with a carrier and applied to an area where pressure has begun to damage cells, can actually reverse the damage caused by oxygen starvation. Not sure of the science…but I can attest to it working.

      • McFlock 5.1.3


        That’s a bit mean – 35% chlorine would be a bugger to drink, too.

        Reading up on CG’s links, the main issue seems to be that peroxide isn’t a stand-alone municipal water treatment, whereas chlorine can be (depending on stuff idk).

        • cleangreen

          yes Mcflock correctly said;

          The use of any chemical is reliant on its concentration and that include the use of Chlorine so these ‘alarmists are just making a case for using 35% swallowed straight of anything and that is stupid as that set of comments was about the use of H2o2.

          Did they know that we actually breath H2O2 in the air also that we breathe????

          read my response to the rave from the right wing nuts who disbelieve anything but what national says.

          • Draco T Bastard

            Did they know that we actually breath H2O2 in the air also that we breathe????

            [Citation Needed]

            Oh, hey, I’m feeling generous:

            The current OSHA standard for hydrogen peroxide is 1 part per million parts of air averaged over an eight-hour shift.

            So, what parts per million happen outside of workplaces that use the stuff?

            Really, you’re talking out your arse.

            • cleangreen

              Draco you are backing up the wrong tree there,

              If you use OSHA they are not even identifying using the concentrations any type of hydrogen peroxide as there are some only to be used for industrial use not for injection as they have other additives such as ‘stabiisers’ they call them.

              There are several different grades that OSHA don’t even identify that workers would be exposed to in the workplace.

              For instance, There are grades ‘specifically produced with special processes for indigestion that are commonly used in making a variety of foods including dairy products so OSHA don’t even identify these grades that we ingest every day.

              These are called ‘Food grade H2O2.

              This is the grade our local authorities now must use instead of chlorine as chlorine is causing cancer and damage to our immune systems as we drink it over time.

              My statement that H2O2 is in the air we breathe is found in many studies already covering the use of H2o2.

              I prefer the Canadian Government documentation rather than industry sources thanks regarding your issueof acceptance of using chlorine as you seem very happy with that and it is your body and right to choose but when it is forced onto our family without choice that is another issue.


              • McFlock

                If chlorination of a municipal water supply gives you the shits, that’s down to you. If e.coli-contaminated water gives you the shits, that’s down to the municipal water supply.

                • Stunned Mullet

                  Does the fact that I agree with you 100% mean you’re a self-important jerk who has difficulty understanding ethical concepts and any human motivation other than selfishness ?

              • Incognito

                I think I’ve seen you citing that Canadian Government link three times now. It was (last) modified 14 Dec 2006 and is so outdated, in fact, that the link to more information is no longer valid. In addition, it does not contain one single citation to any of the sources.

                The OSHA standard refers to an acceptable exposure limit and it does not matter what the grade of the source is. Hydrogen peroxide exposure from food grade is no different from medical grade, for example; the same safe/safety limit applies in both cases. Obviously, it does refer to a route of exposure, in this via inhalation (of air). The label “food grade” simply means that it is free of other chemicals that could affect human health if ingested (via the oral route).

              • There are several different grades that OSHA don’t even identify that workers would be exposed to in the workplace.

                And that proves that you haver NFI WTF you’re talking about.

                Hydrogen Peroxide with chemical composition H2O2 does not have different grades. What you can get is different concentration. The OSHA measures that concentration for industry use of hydrogen peroxide maximum concentration as to where it’s safe as 1 part per million.

                Otherwise known as 0.0001%. Some 3500 times less than the concentration that the quackery that you citing says people should use.

                There is no such thing as ‘Food grade H2O2’.

                My statement that H2O2 is in the air we breathe is found in many studies already covering the use of H2o2.


                There’s ozone found in the air we breath as well. That doesn’t make it any less poisonous and that we should then start injecting the shit into our bodies.

                And that Canadian link says may do so. In other words, they’ve found some weak correlation but no cause.

      • cleangreen 5.1.4

        Poor James is wrong again.

        read the literature on ‘ the miracle of hydrogen peroxide’ you fool.

        Every time you ingest Dairy products you injest hydrogen peroxide you fool.

        They use food grade H2O2 in dairy products.

        Go look at the facts firstly and while your’e at it when they do teeth repair on your mouth guess what?

        They use Hydrogen peroxide again there,

        But don’t worry, I am happy if you keep swallowing that dirty water with toxic cancer causing Chlorine in it.

        As you you get cancer eventually whereas us using Hydrogen Peroxide correctly (not at full strength but diluted to .0035% as needed using chlorine also) we will become cancer free because cancer cannot live in a oxygen rich environment which hydrogen peroxide brings.

        see James if you had taken the time to read the literature you would know that it is the amount of food grade H2o2 you wouldn’t be making wild assumptions as you also are keen to do often sadly.

        The Risks of Chlorination By-Products
        Lab animals exposed to very high levels of THMs have an increased risk of cancer. Several studies on humans have also found a link between long-term exposure to high levels of chlorination by-products and a higher risk of cancer. For instance, a recent study showed an increased risk of bladder and possibly colon cancer in people who drank chlorinated water for 35 years or more.
        High levels of THMs may also have an effect on pregnancy. A California study found that pregnant women who drank large amounts of tap water with high THMshad an increased risk of miscarriage. These studies do not prove that there is a link between THMs and cancer or miscarriage. However, they do show the need for further research in this area to confirm potential health effects.


        • Draco T Bastard

          Every time you ingest Dairy products you injest hydrogen peroxide you fool.

          [Citation Needed]

          It may be used in treatment but, being unstable, probably doesn’t stay there which is one of the major reasons why it’s unsuitable for drinking water treatment.

          Also, consider this:

          When hydrogen peroxide is used as an agent to reduce the number of bacteria in dairy products or other foodstuffs, the excess is destroyed. Toxicological considerations, therefore, apply only to the possible interference with the nutritional value of treated foodstuffs or the formation of toxic substances, but not to residual hydrogen peroxide. It is well known that small amounts of hydrogen peroxide given orally produce no toxicological effects, because of the rapid decomposition by the catalase of the intestinal cells. However, a 0.45% solution given to rats instead of drinking-water depressed the fluid intake and food consumption and reduced the body weight (Hankin, 1958). Some hydrogen peroxide was absorbed sublingually, causing visible gas bubbles in the veins (Ludewig, 1959).

          To do what you’re saying would be to make tap water poisonous as the concentration of hydrogen peroxide would have to remain at 3% or higher to have the disinfectant effect that you need from the treatment plant all the way to the house.

          But don’t worry, I am happy if you keep swallowing that dirty water with toxic cancer causing Chlorine in it.

          Chlorine and Cancer

          The Australian Drinking Water Guidelines report no adverse effects from the ingestion of chlorinated water. Long-term animal toxicity studies show that chlorine or its breakdown products do not act as carcinogens (cancer causing agents) or tumour initiators. According to the Australian Drinking Water Guidelines, there is very little risk from chlorine associated with drinking a lot of water. In one report, 150 people drank water with chlorine concentrations of 50 mg/L, during water mains disinfection, with no reported adverse health effects. Another study of military personnel, who often drink water with chlorine concentrations greater than 32 mg/L for extended periods, showed no adverse effects.2

          My bold.

          …we will become cancer free because cancer cannot live in a oxygen rich environment which hydrogen peroxide brings.

          What a load of bollocks.

          The human body is already oxygen rich. If it wasn’t we’d all die of suffocation. And cancer still happens.

          • cleangreen

            Draco – read this and you may understand the way to get oxygen into the tissues at levels we need to defeat cancer please.

            This another way not specifically using H2O2, but some use hypobaric chambers also (very expensive) to force more rich oxygen levels into the cells around cancer.


            • Stunned Mullet

              Cleangreen you are advocating quackery.


              • cleangreen

                Sunned mullet

                You are only part of the current medical system National has almost destroyed with your comment there. Quackery; – ha ha ha,

                You have never experienced the hard edge of medical health mismanagement i assume see my comments to rosemary on

                You should not fear what your have yet to learn as i have.

                The current medical system is lacking and has not caught up with the 21st century diseases like one of those i contracted on on you and now fight to live with but i don’t wish this on my worst enemy or you my college.

            • Incognito

              Cancer cells grow extremely well in Petri dishes under air, which contains much more oxygen than any cell inside the body will ever experience.

              When cancer grows the cancer cells need oxygen (and nutrients) from blood. Therefore, cancer cells send out (release) signals to redirect blood vessels and also to form new blood vessels. This called angiogenesis:

              Angiogenesis is a normal and vital process in growth and development, as well as in wound healing and in the formation of granulation tissue. However, it is also a fundamental step in the transition of tumors from a benign state to a malignant one, leading to the use of angiogenesis inhibitors in the treatment of cancer.

              I think what you might be referring to is the situation when the cancer outgrows the blood supply and even the formation of new blood vessels cannot keep up with the growing cancer. At some distance from the blood vessels the cancer cells run out of oxygen (and nutrients), which is called hypoxia. These cancer cells are highly stressed, and often die, and will try to escape this harmful environment if they can, e.g. by moving (yes, cancer cells move) further and deeper into the surrounding healthy tissue or through ‘jumping’ into the blood stream to find ‘greener pastures’ elsewhere in the body (metastasis). The deep(er) penetration into healthy tissue actually has given cancer its name: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cancer#History and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_cancer#Early_diagnoses.

              Ozone therapy will not alleviate low oxygen in cancers nor will it kill cancer cells by ‘overdosing’ them with oxygen.

              However, there is a way to increase oxygen levels, also in cancers, which is hyperbaric oxygen therapy (HBOT), i.e. the medical use of oxygen at an ambient pressure higher than atmospheric pressure. But here is the catch:

              The following are relative contraindications — meaning that special consideration must be made by specialist physicians before HBO treatments begin:

              Malignant disease: Cancers thrive in blood-rich environments but may be suppressed by high oxygen levels. HBO treatment of individuals who have cancer presents a problem, since HBO both increases blood flow via angiogenesis and also raises oxygen levels. Taking an anti-angiogenic supplement may provide a solution.[65][66] A study by Feldemier, et al. and recent NIH funded study on Stem Cells by Thom, et al., indicate that HBO is actually beneficial in producing stem/progenitor cells and the malignant process is not accelerated.[67] [my bold]

      • cleangreen 5.1.5

        Look at this Draco and learn please for your health sake.

        Click to access Hydrogen-Peroxide-Therapy.pdf


        [please stop putting long cut and pastes in your comments. See also here https://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-22-01-2018/#comment-1438477 I’d like to see an acknowledgment that you have read both moderations. Am putting you into moderation as I seem to remember we’ve been here before. I suggest you start making a habit of checking back to see who has replied to your comments because I don’t want to spend time chasing you up on this. – weka]

        • weka

          moderation note for you.

          • cleangreen

            Weka, I now have no feed into the TS as of today so if you receive this please respond,

            Am I suspended here?

            [there is a moderation note from yesterday for you to respond to – weka]

            • weka

              mod note.

            • cleangreen

              O/k weka, LOL

              After I placed my first blog ‘a public health article’ letter sent to Government, with the link as you previously suggested i had some nasty responses back to me so i had to defend the subject facts.

              We do always now instead of posting the cut and paste text, do what you have asked but I have a barrage of negative attacks on my subject yesterday that I needed to make sure those sharply harsh critics read the whole text of the subject to learn the real facts as it seemed that did not take those documents under their consideration.

              We all get tested here as many are critical of others it can be “brutal” sometimes and we have to defend our selves, but if i erred here i will not post cut and paste on this site, if others just read the articles after we send the link.

              This is a very serious issue I placed under “public health” advisory weka as i have a long history of involvement and am compassionate about this health risk as i am other environmental issues we all discuss on this blogsite.

              My apologies for making your job harder than it needs to be.o

              • weka

                You can’t make people read something. Posting long cut and pastes just takes up lots of space, and is particularly bad for people reading on cell phones.

                If you are getting criticised for your political points, then defend them (or walk away/ignore). On TS you can provide links with selective quoting (people can click through), but people are going to want you to put that in context of your argument and explain your views with reference to back up information as needed. I’m not going to go read a long screed no matter where it is if the person making the argument hasn’t bothered to make the actual argument.

  6. Ad 6

    I quite liked this Bloomberg editorial, requesting that the United States House Intelligence Committee. release to the public the summary of material turned over from the FBI and Department of Justice. This document reportedly alleges abuses in how the government wire-tapped Donald Trump’s associates.

    Republicans say it’s worse than Watergate, Democrats want to go soft. Democrats have drafted their own classified memo to counter the Republican one. All of this, they say, is just an effort to discredit the real investigation into Russian collusion.

    So how do we find out who’s telling the truth? Release both memos


    The only thing that is going to save any hard result out of the Mueller investigations is if everyone comes clean, including the FBI’s practices.

  7. savenz 7

    Sign if interested to help free 16 yo Palestinian child from jail

    “My 16-year-old daughter was dragged out of her bed in the dead of night and arrested. Even though she is just a child, the military refused to release her. She could spend years in jail. I have dedicated my life to civil resistance in Palestine.”


    • mary_a 7.1

      Done. Thanks savenz (7) for the opportunity to sign this petition. Sixteen year old Ahed’s only crime was she hit a hostile heavily armed Israeli soldier, after he shot her cousin in the head!

  8. veutoviper 8

    I do not usually recommend NZ Herald articles (never ones by the writers discussed at 1 above) but this one by Audrey Young might be of interest in relation to the new Government’s 100 day plan.


    While the main article is an interview with Jacinda Ardern in her home the day after the baby news, there is no mention of ‘baby’ other than this aspect of the timing of the interview.

    The discussion focuses primarily on the PM’s thinking behind the 100 day plan, and at the end of the article there is a very clear and useful summary of progress against the 100 day plan.

    • UncookedSelachimorpha 8.1

      Agree this article is worth a read for an insight into where Ardern is heading / thinking. I hope she succeeds in her goals.

  9. Adrian 9

    If we had any doubts that we live in a police dominated state the current stupidity over the Hood bar in Hamilton should dispel them.
    the police have had its liquor licence canceled because 612 people either causing trouble or drunk had stated that they had been there at some stage on the night.
    Quick, lets put the bastards out of business.
    Hang on, thats 612 people over about 4.5 years, about one every 2.6 days, caused the police to do their job.
    Fucking complete breakdown of civil order in the Tron, wheres the Army when you need them.
    Quite apart from exactly where these patrons are going to go now as it is not only the biggest bar/nitespot but its about 50% of the late night revellers in the town.
    Well thats going to solve that problem then.
    The Police are the stupidest gang in the country.

    • A fairly obvious consequence of allowing policy to be determined by an interested party. Allowing the Police excessive influence over licencing laws and the admin thereof is as bad as allowing the hospitality industry excessive influence. It would be nice if the new government would remind the NZ Police what their job isn’t, but that’s about as likely National bringing back compulsory unionism.

    • Enough is Enough 9.2

      “Quick, lets put the bastards out of business”

      The Hood is owned by the Lawrenson Group which owns about 20 bars in Hamilton.

      I don’t think anyone should cry that one of their poorly managed shit holes is closing down,

  10. Pete 10

    Evidence again of an opinion shaper of the country at work.

    Mike Hosking about an immigration case:
    “However, there could be a twist. Last resort cases always end up on the Immigration Minister’s desk … we have a new minister (Iain Lees-Galloway). And we have a Government seemingly obsessed with being nice. Playing the good guy, looking to dabble, if not swim, in social largesse.

    It’ll be interesting to see if this story tugs the minister’s strings. And that fatal exception is made … I hope not.

    Not for the family (who doesn’t feel bad for them?) but for the precedent, which is what we all must live with well after the von Metsingers are gone.”

    So let’s talk about Peter Thiel shall we Mike?


    • james 10.1

      “So let’s talk about Peter Thiel shall we Mike?”

      Surely since Labour are in power a better example would be Bill Lui?

      • Why?

        IIRC, Bill Liu went through the immigration process the normal way. After that it was his connections with National that caused problems.

        And it was definitely National that twisted the law beyond recognition to gift Thiel with citizenship when they shouldn’t have.

        • james

          “IIRC, Bill Liu went through the immigration process the normal way. After that it was his connections with National that caused problems”

          I think you are mis remembering.

        • Ed

          Do you really want to waste your time discussing issues with a puerile troll like James ?

      • DoublePlusGood 10.1.2

        What does Bill Lui have to do with Mike Hosking?

      • cleangreen 10.1.3


        James 5.1.1
        26 January 2018 at 1:49 pm
        Hahahahahha – we’ll, yes, that would be a good reason.

        Now lets talk about your idiot statement suggesting that swallowing 35% hydrogen peroxide was my plan shall we as if you ‘inferred that I suggested that i will call you in on that, so simply the literature if read explained that 3% is available at pharmacies and is used for indigestion to treat various health issues including cancer, but I would say that the concentration of .0035% in a litre of water or 1ml of 35% food grade H2O2 is fine to use as i have used it for years now and i am hear talking to you are’nt I????


        I highlight this pint as i avoid eating while taking H2O2 and i after years are fine and have not been to hospital for serious internal issues since 20 yrs ago.

        The amount in tap water would be far lower than this strength

        Important – only drink H2O2 on an empty stomach, at least 1 hour before or 3 hours after a meal. If taken too close to food, it can damage your digestive system or react with certain foods causing toxic by-products.

        Hydrogen Peroxide

    • red-blooded 10.2

      Good to see the Press Council have ruled against another opinion-shaper – Duncan Garner – for his racist rant asking how we want the face of NZ to look like in 20 years.

  11. eco maori 12

    Well we’re of to Auckland to see our new moko she a curly headed girl very good baby so her mother tells us. I hope the fn muppets are not going to be playing there stall games with my mokos in the truck with us. As always I will be on gard looking for any bullshit. They have to remember that I can smell them a mile away thanks to my skills inherited from my tupuna. Ka kite ano

    • eco maori 12.1

      You think ECO MAORI does not know everyone you use to play me right to the 2 girls that are close to me thanks for the siren send off muppets Ana to kai

      • eco maori 12.1.1

        Eco Maori got to much MANA now for the sandflys to handle now I no that everyone with power is going to try and deny my fait but I know ECO Maori Mana will shine right through them Ana to kai

        • eco maori

          No the sandflys don’t give a shit they were top and tailing me and then relays fools at least they ain’t bothering anyone else
          Ana to kai

  12. veutoviper 13

    I did not want to denigrate AD’s very thoughtful post on Australia Day and Waitangi Day with this, but I found it very funny considering our long past (thank goodness) flag referendum:


    I am sure you will ‘get it’ from the title before watching …

  13. Rosemary McDonald 14

    Is this our first human climate change victim?


    “A woman with multiple sclerosis has died from overheating, prompting a warning from the Chief Coroner.

    People living with multiple sclerosis can struggle to control their body’s temperature in hot weather.

    Chief Coroner Judge Deborah Marshall said people with multiple sclerosis, or other illnesses which make them susceptible to overheating, need to keep an eye on symptoms worsening in the hot weather.

    The woman, in her early 60s, died from hyperthermia in Christchurch on Wednesday.

    MetService said Christchurch had a high of 32°C on Wednesday and is forecast to reach the same high next week.

    Multiple Sclerosis New Zealand said people can keep their body cool by being in air conditioned rooms, wearing cooling cotton clothes, and drinking more water.”

    My man has a high spinal injury which causes thermoregulatory impairment. Overheats… and everything gets fairly ugly. Minimal clothing, shade, 3 litres water drunk daily and cool cloths or squirting with cold water. The worst he ever got was in 2011…http://www.stuff.co.nz/timaru-herald/news/6250569/Timaru-had-hottest-day-at-41-3C . The day we picked to do our much anticipated trip in our Bus through Molesworth Station. Finally got him cooled down two days later in Kaikoura by parking him by the freezers in the supermarket. Had we been drinkers…it would have been a walk/wheel in chiller in a liquor shop.

    Those with disabilities, children and the elderly will be suffering in this heat…and often these groups do not have the luxury of air conditioning.

    • weka 14.1

      thanks for this. Nice emergency skills. We’re going to have to learn a lot of new stuff.

    • Multiple Sclerosis New Zealand said people can keep their body cool by being in air conditioned rooms, wearing cooling cotton clothes, and drinking more water.”

      And how many people with Multiple Sclerosis can afford air-conditioning? Both the installation and the ongoing power and maintenance.

      • Rosemary McDonald 14.2.1

        “And how many people with Multiple Sclerosis can afford air-conditioning? Both the installation and the ongoing power and maintenance.”


        Rising temperatures will weed out the poor and weakened….

        • cleangreen


          So many people see things as ‘a simple fix’ rosemary.

          I was chemically poisoned 26 yrs ago working in Canada,; – and have spent years since leaning ways to allow the body to repair itself.

          I have learnt that if we give each of us the right type of care and administration of alternatives that the body can tolerate the body can heal..

          When I was chemically poisoned in 1992 I was put through three months of intense investigation by the usual doctors in different fields who did not know anything about chemical poisoning or what to treat the patient for the injuries sustained.

          They finally admitted this to me, and sent me to a specialist doctor who came from Poland who knew about chemical poisoning and how to set about sending my blood to a Pathologist and a Toxicologist in USA to find out what had happened to me with all the toxic chemicals now sitting inside me, and after the results came back i even was found to be liable to get MS along with 10 other medical setbacks.

          I was a very sick man by then so my treating polish doctor agreed to treat my immune system first to help my body to try and recover so i was put on three months of Vitamin/mineral intravenous administration with sauna baths to try to release all the toxic chemicals that was then completely making me very ill.

          I was after this time sent to a Florida clinic where another specialist in environmental medicine was giving me larger more controlled IV’s and a type of immunotherapy called EPD or ‘Enzyme potentiated desensitisation’ for two years as i was then reacting to so many foods i could not tolerate any flour, wheat or yeast in any foods so that treatment after two years actually got me back to tolerating bread and other wheat products.

          Over the following 5 yrs I was studied by 40 doctors and given 110 reports of my medical condition and any progress that was made and issues i had permanently contracted.so we all knew then how my future looked from then and how to live it to help recover in the long term, so home we came to NZ and the medical system here is so poor they know very little about helping us with debilitating medical states now so we have to find our own way now as i did.

          I have been often advised to avoid any environmental chemicals that ‘trigger’ reactions and chlorine is one of those today which is very bad for me as when i drink chlorinated water i get a heavy band like headache and loose my balance so i am truly now an Environmental ‘canary in the mine’ so at least i can warn others of some dangers ahead since my injuries and pain I have lived through since 1992..

        • Anne

          The government has an emergency fund available. Those most at risk should be provided with an air conditioner/heat pump. It could be expedited quickly and save a lot of hospital and other care expenses for those adversely affected.

          While the La Nina weather pattern is in part responsible for the current heat wave, Climate Change will ensure they are going to happen on a regular basis from now on. Best to take action now…

          • Rosemary McDonald

            “The government has an emergency fund available…..”

            Thanks for the chuckle of the day Anne.

            Where it that simple, and oh how awesome if such an investment approach actual happened.

            Reminds me of this conversation on Public Address a while back…

            Despite deaths, and a Chief Coroner’s recommendation, it was damned near impossible to organise a battery back-up for a DHB funded bipap machine…

            You see…dead sick and disabled folk cost nothing…

      • cleangreen 14.2.2

        “How many people with Multiple Sclerosis can afford air-conditioning? Both the installation and the ongoing power and maintenance.”

        Very few with any chronic diseased state can afford a big power bill now.

        As i have attested to (below) with my 26yr chemical poisoning while working abroad cost me our lives in terms of paying for alternative medicines that were never covered by the health system here.

        So we live a very frugal life now as many with chronic illness also does so many people with chronic diseases along with those with Multiple Sclerosis can not afford air-conditioning or the installation and the ongoing power and maintenance.

        In my experience Canada had a better public health system than we have here after National took a wrecking ball to our past iconic health system now in tatters.

    • Kay 14.3

      Very sad reading that, but not surprised. Heat/humidity is common seizure trigger as well,I’m not in the greatest of states in that respect right now. Air con? Yeah right…Got a nice little fan but following my power usage online those things can be as bad as having the heater on. Sympathy to all others who are really suffering right now.

      • Rosemary McDonald 14.3.1

        I’m sitting here with a wet guest towel hanging around my neck, with another in the freezer for later. Theory is that I’m cooling the blood as it is pumped in and out of my brain. 32 degrees in the shade outside and 30 degrees inside.

        Take care, Kay.

        • cleangreen


          look at what I posted on 5.1.5
          26 January 2018 at 8:46 pm
          Look at this Draco and learn please for your health sake.

          Click to access Hydrogen-Peroxide-Therapy.pdf

          This may help your progress back to good health god willing as I will pray for your recovery.

          • Rosemary McDonald

            cleangreen, when I have the time I will definitely look into the research on hydrogen peroxide…what you’ve linked to is a little cheerleaderish for comfort…but I do get that those who have had success with such therapies are enthusiastic to share with others.

            Unlike others, I do not have a mind like a steel trap.
            I try to be open to new and/or alternative ideas, especially in the medical field.

            Within my own circle there has been some successes with alternate therapies such as Vit C (fast becoming mainstream) manuka honey (also widely accepted) and medical cannabis.

            All were widely scoffed as woo woo quackery not so long ago.

            Dogma is a nasty affliction, suffered by many and frequently incurable.

            • cleangreen

              Thanks rosemary,

              I have recovered better and far cheaper using H2O2 than any other treatment to date from 1992.

              So that is a lesson fro me clearly to be confident in this H2O2 as being one of the most under-rated cheap medications available today.

              The medical profession will either embrace it or be fearful of them loosing a market share of “health care” treatments and administration.

              But at the end “it is the patient’s needs and health” that is the most important consideration here for me.

              • Incognito

                The medical profession will either embrace it or be fearful of them loosing a market share of “health care” treatments and administration.

                But at the end “it is the patient’s needs and health” that is the most important consideration here for me. [sic]

                In one fell swoop you write off a whole profession!? As if each & every medical professional is only ever only interested in their “market share” and not at all in “the patient’s needs and health”!? I find your distrust of many hardworking people who are most definitely dedicated to helping other people irksome, to say the least, disrespectful, and misplaced.

                Whether an alternative therapy is beneficial for patients needs to be properly tested without creating undue risk to patients. And even then such therapy will add to the existing ‘tool box’ of medical professionals and will not make everything else redundant & obsolete.

    • joe90 15.1

      During the mid seventies I had the absolute joy of collecting kai moana from Ohiwa with my workmate and his whānau from the local iwi.

      They were golden days and to read about the degradation is heartbreaking.

      • cleangreen 15.1.1

        100% joe,

        My heart weeps when i see this too, we now are in a sad way, far from being clean green now sadly.

  14. Herodotus 16

    Why has not any NZ government followed Australia by funding Surf Life saving. Currently the clubs have to fund raise.
    Tourism is a major success, our economy we are told is booming, so if not now when? IMO there should already be funding in place.
    This also is a service, that on holiday I and many others greatly appreciate the work pf those involved, and the safety in swimming in these patrolled areas.
    Williams said his 17 northern region clubs, which supervised more than 500,000 beach-goers last year, gets “zero” direct government funding despite providing an “essential service”.

  15. Ian 17

    April the 1 st would be more appropriate .

    [TheStandard: A moderator moved this comment to Open Mike as being off topic or irrelevant in the post it was made in. Be more careful in future.]

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