Being woke doesn't necessarily make someone braindead. It just often seems that it does:
In a 1945 essay, Notes on Nationalism, George Orwell described a rumour among leftists that the real reason American troops had been brought to Europe was to suppress English communism, not fight the Nazis. “One has to belong to the intelligentsia to believe things like that,” Orwell famously noted. “No ordinary man could be such a fool.”
Even by Orwell’s high standards, those words have aged extremely well. Tell an ordinary Canadian schlub that white people aren’t allowed to quote Beyoncé, and he will be smart enough to laugh in your face. Dress down a superbly intelligent Peace and Conflict Studies PhD candidate for the same act, and she will fall over herself with apologies. I refer here, of course, to federal NDP leadership candidate Niki Ashton, who back in March tweeted “Like Beyoncé says, to the left. Time for an unapologetic left turn for the #NDP, for social, racial, enviro and economic justice.” The Vancouver chapter of Black Lives Matter tweeted a demand that Ashton retract her appropriation of Beyoncé. And she complied, meekly replying: “Not our intention to appropriate. We’re committed to a platform of racial justice + would appreciate ur feedback.” https://nationalpost.com/news/world/jonathan-kay-on-the-tyranny-of-twitter-how-mob-censure-is-changing-the-intellectual-landscape/amp
What's going on here? Herding. On the basis that it is inappropriate for white folk to acknowledge the merit in what a black person says. Apparently. If you feel the woke doing the herding of the politician in the above instance are not doing so on that basis, feel free to explain what you believe their basis actually is…
In fact he described Killer Mike’s comment as eloquent. I am sure he has described a womens expression of a viewpoint as eloquent on occasion as well. Or a fellow Maori/Polynesian. Has he been attacked for that?
It's a nonsense charge, and note since Killer Mikes comment there was less violence – looting and so on and progress is now being made. So who was right?
It's a nonsense charge, unless you're black and find "eloquent male and/or female" offensive, coz it implies black people are not eloquent, it's a historical thing, but hey, I got my view, you got yours, KM has his and a few 1000 pissed off black Americans got theirs… yet the protests did bring change?
It's become a political issue rather than activist only one. You've got Congress divided between Dem (House) and Rep Senate positions on nationwide police reform, so its now an election issue (what happened to Engel in New York). And at city and state level regulatory changes on police practice.
When the right is prevented from portraying it as some black violence threat they lose their power to control the narrative.
without looking any further than your comment, I'd guess it's contextual to that particular politician eg she *is appropriating a well known black woman's politics for her own political ends and she's not known for being an ally to black people or there is some history there. I take those situations not to be that white people can never quote black people, but that black people are pulling white people up on it when they do it inappropriately and this is very visible at this time. When white people actually get on with the business of changing institutional racism, things will change.
I also think that there are serious issues with the potent mix of social media, call out culture, the neoliberalisation of social justice issues, and that some shit is getting out of hand. How to tell which is the out of hand stuff and which is the useful stuff is not always that easy.
Btw, 'woke' has a different meaning for black communities in the US than it does here. I can't tell which you were meaning.
Gosh & golly, you're right! Oops, I said a naughty word. 😉
Woke as a political term of African-American origin refers to a perceived awareness of issues concerning social justice and racial justice… By the late 2010s, woke had been adopted as a more generic slang term broadly associated with left-wing politics, socially liberal causes, feminism, LGBT activism, and cultural issues
The term 'woke' and 'wide awake' first appear in political culture and political ads during the 1860 presidential election in support of Abraham Lincoln. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woke
So looks like I was using the "generic slang" version. Life in postmodernism sure does get complicated sometimes. I get why some guys retreat to a hut in the woods…
I'd say most people in NZ use it in its more recent meaning. I try an avoid using it, (it's a word fraught with sociopolitical complexities) although this is becoming more difficult.
Dennis, do you remember before the internet it was thought that the cause of collective human stupidity was the lack of access to information? Well it wasn't that.
Excellent & profound observation, RL, take a bow for that! My favourite theory is that the cocktail of additives that the capitalists put in the food to keep people compliant is the culprit. But don't tell anyone – already enough folks freaking out about other stuff… 🤐
The endless nightmare of psychopathic power-plays, guilt-trip manipulation & control-freak behaviour that naturally flow from Intersectionality. Nutty little Cult.
I was reading a few days ago a Jewish (well something written by a Jewish male) opine that if people were going to allow blacks to be arbiters of racism, why were they resistant to Jews defining and determining the antisemtism of others.
An unhealthy culture of aggressivelycompetitive victimhood, outrage & power-seeking. Deeply divisive & destructive. For all its cynical appropriation of high-minded Left-sounding rhetoric, Intersectionality inevitably produces a cutthroat world where power is transferred & opportunists advance through character assassination & something bordering on reputational homicide. Constant denunciation & ritualized public humiliations. It's a Cult pretty much pre-programmed to eat its own … the Woke soon discover they can never be quite Woke enough.
All predicated, of course, on a crude, childlike monocausal distortion of history. Eternally evil & sinful demographics vs eternally innocent & virtuous ones. Almost guaranteed to produce Social Injustice on a massive massive scale.
Are there any just ‘social equally causes‘ that can be safely pursued, or are they all "a crude, childlike monocausal distortion of history", equally deserving of derision?
IMHO the NZ anti-apartheid and anti-nuclear protests were an expression of support for worthwhile causes (what the heck, I’m going to lump in BLM, and be damned), although some have characterised them as 'virtue signalling'. Fortunately it's difficult to control what people consider to be worthwhile/worthless causes, at least in NZ – vive la différence.
"Conscious expressions of moral values are attacked as "virtue signalling" or, more recently, "woke". Both terms are intended to slight."
In 1970, I marched behind HART's banners in my first protest. Hated it but knew I had to. Antinuclear most of my life. Have expressed moral judgments since the early '70s too. Seems to me the difference is stylistic.
In the old days people in minority groups had a focus on articulating common ground. First within the group, then to the people at large. That involves rapport, an effort at understanding others, etc. Nowadays groups focus on intergroup competition, make no effort to establish rapport, and the value of identifying common ground never seems to occur to them.
"Nowadays groups focus on intergroup competition, make no effort to establish rapport, and the value of identifying common ground never seems to occur to them."
You could be right Dennis (sigh), but it's difficult for me to accept such broad generalisations. I believe that (even) nowadays some groups (still) embrace intergroup cooperation, make an effort to establish rapport, and try to identify common ground.
No, I agree your scepticism is sensible. Hindsight is misleading, inherently, due to our subjective bias. I'm not saying I'm correct in what I wrote, it's just how it seems to me. 🙂
The great Civil Rights Movements of the recent past (some of which I participated in locally) were explicitly liberal projects, grounded in a universal concept of human rights & mobilising core moral intuitions of fairness and reciprocity … in other words a noble universal liberal ethos recognising shared humanity & individual worth that emerged out of Renaissance Humanism, before further refinement during the Enlightenment … Contemporary Identity Politics has certainly attempted to trade on the good name of previous civil rights projects but it's a radically different beast … both ethically & philosophically … As dangerous, divisive & destructive as fuck.
"As dangerous, divisive & destructive as fuck" to who/what?
Are any contemporary civil rights causes just, and how is that decided?
"Identity politics covers a broad array of theoretical and practical interventions that ground themselves in, and take as their point of departure, the lived experience and group interests of groups of people who share social identity categories. Examples of “identities” in this sense include but are not restricted to gender, race, ethnicity, sexuality, and religion." https://blog.apaonline.org/2020/06/17/black-lives-matter-as-identity-politics-and-class-struggle/
"The ideas behind intersectional feminism existed long before the term was coined. Sojourner Truth's 1851 "Ain't I a Woman?" speech, for example, exemplifies intersectionality, in which she spoke from her racialized position as a former slave to critique essentialist notions of femininity."
SPC Comment/quote above i think is the secret to all this for everyone…"I do not wish them [women] to have power over men; but over themselves."….all else becomes moot when this succeeds for men and women.
I thought so too. Does indeed seem to be the key point. Liberation was a powerful ethos, which is why feminism emerged from Women's Lib. Autonomy is the more general notion (applying to nations as well).
Of course, males can have an 'opinion on abortion'.
Are you saying that because some males opinions are criticised or challenged, that you feel that should not be allowed?
And you conveniently ignore the fact that the legalities around abortion are often designed, voted on, and implemented by a male-majority in many countries. So, your comment is both a bit whinging and failing to comprehend the real-life situation we have in the world today.
I would propose that anyone – male or female – who wishes to put forward their opinion on such a divisive and emotive issue as abortion, would need to have the ability to listen much more than the ability to talk.
However, females, in this situation have lived experiences that gives them much more to talk about, so the balance of listening better and for longer, falls on males. There is no avoidance of that reality, either.
" Yep, I did leave out 'dissenting' from the sentence. "
No, you didn't.
You assumed that dissenting means in opposition to female opinions. Females – like males – encompass a wide range of views.
Your late addition of 'dissenting' emphasises your underlying presumption – males vs females. Telling.
" Often when the discussion about abortion gets going around these parts, more than once, a male antagonist is told to butt out. "
Often, I notice that a person who continually avoids consideration of another person's viewpoint or experience, and doesn't engage honestly or with the intention of learning or gaining insight, sometimes find that the patience of the person with whom they are engaging often runs out.
This is normal. Once again, nothing to do with gender, everything to do with communication skills.
" I don't disagree with what you have said above, the lawmakers etc being male."
Of course not. Hard to disagree with reality.
But interesting that you don't admit that it has some context in this discussion you initiated.
No, I claim to have good reading comprehension. Try it, it might lead somewhere.
"I can't see much point in carrying on as you claim to know what I think and what I mean. "
Yes, because I’m reading what you are writing, not reading your mind. How does it feel? (And once, again no comment on the content of my comment, just on the supposed misunderstanding)
Has my 'dissenting' voice caused this heed to disengage?
However, females, in this situation have lived experiences that gives them much more to talk about, so the balance of listening better and for longer, falls on males. There is no avoidance of that reality, either.
Nice one Cinny and Molly, of course us men are allowed to opine, jeez I've never yet met a man who doesn't have a view on everything. "Not allowed", ffs.
I still don't know what Woke is, or care, but male opinions are not threatened, we often have the loudest most abrasive voices, "zip it sweetie" has never been aimed at men.
I meant in 'woke circles', a dissenting male opinion often isn't tolerated.
I wouldn't say that, but I would say such opinions would be challenged rather than not tolerated.
The whole 'woke left' thing has been cracking me up since it first came on the lingo scene, the reason being is that tories think it's a put down. However, I'd much rather be a woke lefty than a sleepy righty 🙂
gsays, have a good day and don't fret the small stuff. I find myself being sexist at times when dealing with things designed by men for that mythical other lol
it's not that men can't have an opinion on abortion (anyone can have an opinion about anything). It's that they shouldn't get to have a say on what women do with their own bodies. So if a man comes into a conversation with women about abortion and thinks that his voice holds as much place as women's, that's probably going to cause some problems. Often it's about how something is said, but also after decades of trying to get change on this issue, many women are just fed up with the reckons.
So if a man comes into a conversation with women about abortion and thinks that his voice holds as much place as women's, that's probably going to cause some problems…
The man can always claim to identify as being a woman then she can opine on an equal footing. Problem solved.
But in the game of intersectional thrones, is not the lesser or smaller minority the most discriminated against and therefore …
In one of the greatest ironies of recent times, Gorsuch the literalist and originalist used his take on the word sex in the 1964 Civil Rights Act to deliver an extension of civil rights to the greatest number possible. And this after Rowling herself said there was no same sex without birth sex.
However I somehow doubt that some people will give her any credit.
While we are thinking about human behaviour and control over others, can we also think about giving others the right to follow a process that enables them to die quietly when they wish it?
This would be after following a thoughtful, practical preparation set in law, at a time and in a way that is fair to their family and friends as well, when they are terminally ill, and have been diagnosed as such clearly beyond error.
The present clauses of the suggested law don't even allow that, they are much more stringent, but please can we have freedom for those who wish it, done in a way that protects them from bad methods and stress.
SCOTUS, Gorsuch was a Trump appointment (the place Garland was chosen for by Obama). Their 1964 Civil Rights Act said no one could be fired on the grounds of their sex, Gorsuch along with more liberal judges decided (a few weeks back) that sex included sexuality and gender ID, thus providing homosexuals and the transgender with protection from employment discrimination.
So if a man comes into a conversation with women about abortion and thinks that his voice holds as much place as women's, that's probably going to cause some problems.
The problem with that is that it is a moral issue and not just women having a say on what to do with their own bodies.
Is abortion, as a matter of fact, murder as some would say?
Because if its murder then it is a whole of society issue and not just a women’s issue.
It's no more murder than contraception that prevents implantation of a fertilised egg. I don't actually care if it is killing a being or not, it's still the woman's choice because of the impact on her and the risks. Society should just trust women on this, and support them to make the best choices. Free access to contraception and abortion, a decent level of DPB, freedom from violence and coercion, free access to education, and the problem largely resolves itself.
Men wanting a say in abortion access is antithetical to that. Maybe if we lived in a non-patriarchal world it would be different, but we don't.
No. Society has no role in answering theological questions, and "god says it's alive from sperm meeting egg" is a theological position.
Additionally, abortion is a medical decision, which lowewrs the number of people who should have any input whatsoever. Basically to patient, doctor, and medical council. And if any of the latter two have an ethical problem with a specific person having a specific procedure, they'd better have a lot more than "a self-contradictory text says it's bad".
If you take the position that society is a collective of individuals then social acceptance, ethics and morals, tolerance is the emergent result of all those individual views. This includes decisions about the practice of abortion and euthanasia, for example, and the provision of such practices, including education and training of (the) practitioners. The lines are never as sharp and the issues are never in focus as much as people would like when they advocate for or against something and formulate a narrative that not only suits and supports their advocacy but also often morphs it into a compelling absolutism. The result makes for poor debate because with challenging and controversial issues, views tend to polarise into simplistic binary positions. A by-effect is the exclusion of groups of people from the ‘debate’ because they don’t meet certain eligibility/inclusion criteria or do meet certain exclusion criteria. To me, it is a huge flag when criteria are applied to a commenter for allowing/disallowing their comments and/or judging the merit/veracity of their comments.
I wouldn't say abortion and euthenasia are in the same category.
Euthenasia consists of a single actor deciding when their existence does them more harm than good, and the repercussions on society of enabling that. There are other issues (some religious) around the debate, but small beer compared to those two.
Whereas abortion is a medical procedure, but the bulk of the political debate around it concerns the idea of what constitutes human life.
Church and state should be separate, and that involves not making theological legislation.
I wouldn't say abortion and euthenasia are in the same category.
Only if you make your categories narrow enough. But if you expand the cases to include say suicide and murder, then it's clear what we are really talking about … the sanctity of human life.
Personally I tend to err towards an absolutist position on this, because those who compromise on this usually cannot be trusted to know where to stop.
I trust you to the extent that you will make the right choice for you. Can you please trust me enough to believe that I will make the right choice for me? I'm actually pleading here, although why I should need to is beyond me.
I meant "running *a* cult of death"… a bit of hyperbole.
Many cultures in NZ that hold life to be sacred; trying to disqualify them from entering the conversation because "theology" is the antithesis of democracy
In the manner of any other medical procedure, yes. The only regulation for abortions should be the standard medical regulations around competence, informed consent, and so on.
It should be handled the same way as every other significant procedure. Especially in that it's nobody else's business.
I'm just wondering how the medical profession would manage gatekeeping if the decisions were passed to them without legal guidance. It would be nice to think it would become a health issues, but history suggests it wouldn't.
Yeah, but the law around medical care should encourage good care, not put barriers between patients and care like the old "convince two doctors you'll go crazy" abortion legislation.
The new law seems to be almost at the point of just telling doctors to do their damned job. Especially that bit about objecting doctors having to refer the patient to a doctor who will actually do their job.
I don't like the 20 week limit (seriously, as anyone ever been pregnant for almost six months and then decided to terminate for shits and giggles?), but if it's a barrier I guess women will keep the struggle going.
I wasn't thinking about the new legislation, but what would happen if the whole thing was taken off statute and how the medical profession would handle things if they weren't being given specific legal guidelines. Lots of areas of health care where doctors don't live up to good care, or where there are conflicts of interest. This isn't an argument against decriminalisation per se, just hadn't thought about this aspect before. But maybe having something in law give protection. Looking at the US and imagining if those laws weren't in place.
There might be a country in the world that always just lumped terminations in with any other procedure within basic medical regulation, and it probably worked out pretty well.
But with our baggage in NZ, just leaving it for patients to make Medical Council or HDC complaints is no good for that patient, and the Medical Council might be reluctant to censure for a period. Having the clarity in legislation overrules any conflict they might feel, in essence shortening the period of adaptation to the new structure.
Sure, if you want to pretend that medical decisions have no current regulation whatsoever.
But if terminations are a medical decision only, then the framework around privacy, decision making, and informed consent is already extant and operational.
I think one of the lessons to be learned about the recent surge in cases at the boarder is that repatriation flights have to be early – there is no point waiting around for an epidemic to blow-up and infect the people waiting to come home.
Miss 15 has a bad cough, decided to be a good parent and take her to the Dr's. She was given a Covid test and now we are in self isolation, waiting the results. Am 99.9% sure it's not Covid, but I guess these are the rules now and we are OK with that.
I'd be devastated if we took no notice of the rules and possibly infected or worse, killed others.
On the upside, thanks to lock down, we understand how to do quarantine and I'm set up to work from home.
Don't worry about those time travellers, we've moved on from 2013. Too soon to worry about those coming in 2023 as well. Cross that bridge when we come to it.
I spell it adhocery and call it faith in the future. In other words, faith that Ardern will continue as PM post-election, and replace Clark with someone who can actually do the job. https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/adhocery
I wouldn't go so far as to have faith that non-performers will be replaced by competent public servants. Everyone knows that will never happen.
You are welcome to spell adhockery any way you like and to practise your touching faith in the future but then to admit that your faith is misplaced is… curious.
Craft ethos is ancient, but likely to become evident once again as an essential strand of the trend towards a resilient sustainable economy. Here's a relevant portal: https://craftsmanship.net/about/
And from the online mag they produce:
While COVID restrictions shutter businesses right and left, a more positive picture is emerging from worker-owned companies like Mondragon, the Spanish enterprise that's become the world's largest co-op, and Evergreen Cooperatives in Cleveland, Ohio. Both operations keep proving that, during economic crises, co-ops adapt better than traditional companies, and they continue paying their workers more equitably as well. Why don’t more businesses follow “the Mondragon model”?
They don't because collective ownership and management only results from collective competence. Few employees have organising skills. Even the basic requirement of consensus decision-making is too hard for ego-driven folk, too hard for self-reliant individualists, too hard for those who talk working together without walking their talk. Most employees choose this default position: "I want an employer to do it all for me". And then leftists wonder why rightists win business support by default.
Well, I've been watching this space since I first learned about Mondragon during the 1970s. I expected the left to adopt the model and was puzzled when they failed. My explanation is an attempt to account for that historical failure, and why it has persisted for so long. So how many employee-generated co-ops have you noticed in Aotearoa??
Google didn’t find me anything that said employees are co-owners though. So maybe not a co-op. Also Mondragon (Semco too) use employee participation in management decisions.
I didn't (label them lazy). And that page you linked too does not specify the number of co-ops you claim.
My point was the ongoing failure of the left to adopt the model. I've never seen or heard of any leftist group or organisation in Aotearoa doing so. And I wonder how many other leftists agree with your statement about them: "The Left, after all, are still capitalists." I therefore await the appearance of written declarations from the other commentators agreeing with your view! 🙄
My point was the ongoing failure of the left to adopt the model.
It's a point I agree with and would love to see further support for cooperatives.
Mostly what I'd like to see is the elimination of ownership of cooperatives. IMO, a cooperative should be a legal entity that has no ownership and is controlled by all who work there.
When one talks of privilege in society, institutional racism, sexism etc and how it manifests itself. Well there are those charged and convicted and those not. And why.
Those of us with an interest in matters health and disability (including care facilities and how complaints are handled by the HDC) wondered at the time how on earth Moss got arguably the most scrutinized top government job.
And gets to bring four of her BUPA employees with her.
Thanks for that link Rosemary @ 8.1.1. Interesting story, the basis of which was repeated in other Public Service entities following the neoliberal changes in the 1980s.
I went through a similar experience only in my case it was a male boss – an American – who burst on to the scene in the late 1980s. Suffice to say it was in the middle of the US/NZ standoff over the anti-nuclear legislation passed in 1986 and there was a link to that event within the govt. agency I worked for. He abruptly left his position late in 1992 and was never seen again. The Public Service entity in question went to considerable lengths to cover up the circumstances of his departure.
Transparency was not the name of the game for 30 plus years and it will take a long time to clean out the Public Service and return it to something akin to what it used to be.
We both know that weird shit happened in the PS (Yes Minister type crap since Adam was a boy), however something fairly radical changed with the reforms of the 80s and it seems that even with Chippie's desire for reform, nothing substantial seems to be happening, and even his proposals seems pretty lame.
I'll be party voting Green this election after a lifetime of supporting Labour, and despite my admiration for JA. (As will a good percentage of family members) The main reason is to do with the state of our neo-liberal PS, the lack of ethics and accountability, the fact that in the senior ranks, they've lost sight of the fact that they're 'servants' rather than leaders of little (sometimes very large) feifdoms, and any sort of accountability seems to be a 'nice to have'.
The amount and seriousness of the number of fuckups that are now apparent in many Ministries and Depts now seem to be tolerated as a matter of 'the cost of doing business'. (Bizzniss being the operative word)
My reply to @ Weka on the Daily Review (23/6/20) PARTIALLY sums it up at 6.2, but there's a lot of other stuff. And even WITHIN the current structure, there are/have been mechanisms where people could have been called to account.
The ONLY thing that might change my intention to party vote Green might be something like the old 'pledge card' – controversial as it was, but the promises substantially kept, and I doubt that's going to happen.
The NEWSROOM article came as absolutely no surprise, but if we think all that kind of shit is limited to OT, I can get you a nice price on the Auckland Harbour Bridge.
Well it's not just the PS, but other stuff like the snails' pace in doing something/ANYTHING about the state of PS broadcasting and media – including preserving plurality of voice and the independents. There are ekshully one or two simple solutions (in that space going forward).
Oh, and as for Grainne Moss: here's my impressive CV. I tick all the boxes. And just by the way – did I tell you I'm compassionate?
Why no you didn't!
Hark! panel. I think we may just have the perfect specimen for heading up a new improved CYFS. I think that about does it team. Why don't we off down to Astoria? We can discuss the next steps there. Job well done 'team'
The NEWSROOM article came as absolutely no surprise,
It read like a re-write of my own experiences and what I have witnessed.
These narcissistic, psychopathic individuals who manage to ingratiate themselves with their superiors are far more prevalent in society than most people know. They are clever at passing themselves off as competent, trustworthy people, and can fool even the most experienced management in both the public and private sectors. They inevitably cause a great deal of damage not only to their victims but also the entities who employed them.
They are rarely called to account and this can be due to the fact they compromise their superiors in some way so end up being allowed to get away with it. Very upsetting for the victims who have had their lives and/or their careers destroyed.
I read a Canadian article years ago and the author noted they are most prevalent in organisations who have a degree of control over the lives of people. He cited the military, police, public services such as health and education as prime places where to find them.
As I read you and follow your comments here at TS, I suspect you've been through employment courts????
If so, I sincerely hope you NEVER ever agreed to any confidentiality agreement. That's the usual trip. Even Mr Hager fell for it, but another trick is to try and wear you down financially.
Anyway – nanna nap time. but Kia Kaha – I just see them all as rather pathetic these days, and they'll eventually run out of places to go and rocks to hide under
As I read you and follow your comments here at TS, I suspect you've been through employment courts????
No. There were no employment courts that I knew of back in the 80s and early 90s. The PSA was all there was, but they were still picking themselves up off the floor after 9 years of Muldoon bashing and were very weak.
A high level government manager with porn "obsession" who planted a "spy" camera in the bathroom of an Auckland gym, capturing almost 40,000 images of people in various states of undress, has escaped conviction and been granted permanent name suppression.
The secrecy around the case was driven in part by the man getting a promotion just before the Covid-19 lockdown and fear that his job and workplace would be negatively affected if his name and details of his offending went public.
The person who found the camera and alerted police is "disgusted" that he has gotten off "completely scot-free" and believed the man should be outed for his "gross crimes".
The man was a manager within a government agency when the offending occurred.
He remains working for that agency but is now is a more senior role – a promotion that came after he disclosed his offending.
Suppression orders prevent the Herald from publishing any further details about his occupation, role or workplace.
Or as I politely (for me) put it…'What the fucking fuck?!?'
Sincerely hope many will read the entire article…I'm rattled by this…and I don't rattle easily.
If I were a man, working in a government department in a senior role, with a recent promotion on my record…. I would be demanding that this decision be strongly appealed.
So the agency that he works at still has no idea of his offending? So they cannot know despite him maybe breaching his employment contract?
Are the crown prosecutors going to appeal this? or are they part of it. I find it pretty disturbing all around. I'd have thought that having a high powered job should be more reason for accountability not less.
Well we can see that he is desperate to keep his little snooping private but why did his boss not react to this? The boss can't unknow this if it was presented honestly to him. At a minimum he probably should have arrange for a workplace sweep for bugs and hidden camera's.
Three monkey stuff. If this person is outed, named and dismissed, it presumably becomes a stain on the reputation of the manager in charge, the HR people being used, and the whole cosy fuckery of private business interests doing the government's work for them.
It also stains the whole neolib system that is embedded, like a stake driven into our hearts though not those of the actually evil people who knowingly run this corrupt system in this world nefarious financial heist.
If he's the manager then where is the state services commission. Although I imagine the yelling match at upper levels has already started. The court stuff can't be accessed but I imagine the employment disclosure can be.
I'd have thought that the appropriate course would be to put on gardening leave pending the court case and an employee hearing. How does this advance the health welfare and safety of the rest of the staff? And do we know which Gym it was? Are people going to be advised that their images are out there. Are they female images only?
One might presume the behaviour is male and he only had access to the male changing rooms (given the risk of being found in the female ones while setting it all up makes that quite unlikely).
If this person is outed, named and dismissed, it presumably becomes a stain on the reputation of the manager in charge, the HR people being used, and the whole cosy fuckery….
Maybe you recall the guy who thought it OK to refer to people as "SCUM" on social media and had to be 'managed out' of the place.
To suggest other people who worked with him didn't know what he was like, and therefore said nothing stretches credibility.
And the way the 'team' he was a part of behaved sometimes, was more suited to a Julie Christie reality TV show. I recall talking to one of those 'old school' cops (not sure if he was retired) who was telling me how embarrassed he felt at the way some of them behaved.
You have to wonder why the SSC didn't consider that, OR wonder why there is/was a huge staff turnover in places, OR delve deeper into a few other things. As far as I know, many of the people who should have been moved on are still in the place because the ministers have "complete faith in their officials". They seem to be reluctant to tell the SSC to clean up his act
I gather that the photos were only of those over 16, as would it not rachit the seriousness of the act up should and if these be of minors ? The actions imo are more serious that what our legal systems appears to view them.
It makes you really wonder & why some in an equal society are more equal than others 🤬 and it was not so long ago that there was a similar act at our USA consul ?
This pathetic prick, clearly not as well connected, gets named and shamed and his photo in the media. To the distress of his victims and the cops he did not get the jail sentence these crimes warrant.
Yep – he looked under punished – but he should from now on always have a male carer. At the first sign of any issues this should be what the outsourced provider does.
Will this fade out of sight under the creeping overwhelming hegemony of surveillance that is being rolled out on us? Will it be commonplace soon and hardly worth a yawn? This is the sort of thing that the anti5G people are concerned about when the streets will have little boosters in every second tree with the sparrows, on each lampost, giving perfect coverage, everything will be connected to the large system.
So why not pics of shapely women or men over 16 years, what is there to be ashamed about etc.? What loss of our human dignity and freedom are we suffering? Empty minds and mouths will question.
I'm saying that it will become almost normalised. Consent will be assumed if you enter these premises. Complaining about privacy will seem quaint. We are already having problems abiyt respect for citizens in the police practice of setting a road search outside a meeting about euthanasia, getting people's details, then instigating search and remove items they had in the house which were illegal. Similar to a search on gang headquarters.
Seriously Gabby? My man is also a tetraplegic and would certainly not have the hand function to place such a device with such accuracy. From his wheelchair to boot. Unless he has a complicit mate who did the work.
My man would find prison a massive deprivation. Most tetraplegics, despite what folks not in the know might think, actually have lives outside of the home. Not imprisoned at all.
And all of the tetraplegics I know would be mightily pissed this pathetic prick got off so lightly after treating his carers with such contempt. Arsehole. And a paedophile to boot. Yuck. Open prison. And as for playing the pathetic lonely cripple card….
Sort of agree, Rosemary, but I think Prison is such a negative solution that helps nobody. This knob should have been sentenced to permanent (ie, LIFE!) Community Service with strict supervision for many, many years. That might give a positive effect. Prison never does.
Nascar officials on Thursday released a photo of the rope found in the garage stall of Bubba Wallace that prompted an FBI probe that determined it had been there since last October. Photograph: NASCAR/Reuters
Declaring “the noose was real”, Nascar officials on Thursday released a photo of the rope found in the garage stall of black driver Bubba Wallace that prompted a federal investigation that determined it had been there since last October.
Gorman the public health academic of Auckland University who reckons there is risk of public transmission from people after their 2 week quarantine (if they are not tested) – agreeing with Radio Mike and Todd (despite there being none of it during Level 2 when there was no testing) argued for us to leave Level 3 because the economic cost was too high from trying to stamp out community transmission.
Des Gorman, who used to head the University of Auckland's School of Medicine, told The AM Show on Monday things like social distancing, "fastidious hygiene" and isolating at the first sign of sickness are the "new normal". As a result, there's "no point in us sitting at level 3", with the financial harm it's causing.
The Government and most epidemiologists – experts in the spread of disease – that have spoken publicly say eradicating the disease will allow us to fully reopen the economy and be better in the long run. Dr Gorman isn’t sure that’s true. “
Dr Gorman believes most experts actually agree with him, but are too afraid to speak out.
The Nats and their press lackys have cooked up a storm over those released from quarantine without testing.
Have they been advising the populace to be cautious by moving back voluntarily to a "Level 2" approach to the disease? Would seem the prudent thing I would have thought.
They've been playing the odds. Since testing was enforced, we've picked up 1-3 a day from isolated travelers. All things being equal, one or more cases getting through among those who were not tested is likely. Should a cluster providentially turn up, the Gnats plan to lose their shit so epicly that Bridges' fulminations will be utterly eclipsed.
Their plan is outrage driven reelection – public health outcomes have never been a serious priority for them.
Not sure about likely. More people went through the 2 weeks without testing before June 9 while we were at level 2 and no community spread.
Muller's belief that community transmission was likely can be seen as a scare campaign to complement the targeting of the Health Minister and ultimately the government over performance.
He's rolled the dice out of desperation, but his longer term credibility is likely to be undermined.
Muller needs a hail Mary – a new community bubble is probably his best chance. If one gets through now however, in an environment including numerous experienced contact tracers and a health system on alert, there's still a respectable chance of containment. I think we should be ready for an attempt to parley half a dozen cases into "the end of the frickken world".
David Seymour has been claiming he was advocating for tighter borders back in January and February.
Has anyone fact checked this? All I can find is a story on Feb 26 about him asking for the PM to return from Fiji to deal with the coronavirus matter. She went from Fiji to Oz to talk to Morrison and then both nations closed their border to those from China.
From the dump of government papers. A note about how the community feels about the various levels. Looks like the media were well out of step with what the community actually felt. Hence should we be very doubtful about most of what the media says? Because they have a predetermined narrative of their own and just look for anecdotes to support it?
There seems to be little doubt that seeing our government in action first hand rather than through the media filter has greatly increased public respect for it. How can we maintain this?
“Some are frustrated by the limitations on their freedom and inability to see their loved ones. Media stories published about people unable to visit loved ones as they are dying are driving negative sentiment.
“However, a significant proportion of the conversation on social media is in support of maintaining safety throughout the levels.”
I would so love these journalists with big audiences to be themselves interviewed rigorously on why they have chosen to cover certain stories in a less than honest manner
If anyone would do so. I haven't done any particular analysis yet but when did the media journalists become the story. I happened to see seven sharp last night and there was Hillary and Jeremy interviewing their own parliamentary correspondent?
What? Given the level of the questions asked in the press conferences I'd have though that just about anybody else's opinion would have been better than that. Why not interview Gordon Campbell if you have to have a journalist.
And when it comes to the stories headed " calls for resignation" – who are these calls coming from- the journalists trying to be part of the story or the opposition over a particuar issue?
I had hoped stuff would be better away from corporate ownership.
Members of the public, academics , media students could have the oppurtunity to ask questions of particular journalists and how they presented particular stories
Could be educational
A great review of the Media crookedness. Well done Gordon Campbell. Wouldn't be so bad if they treated the Nats with the same "rigour." For example since the Muller Brigade keeps on talking about the Government's "lack of a plan" but the Media fail to question what their plan is to save "Small Business."
Or for that matter to highlight the fact that unlike any other country we have so far no recent Community infections. Instead the media just repeat the Opposition's litany of complaints.
Great article, and that has puzzled me, in The last month the UK had a 1000 people die a day, now that is a freakin disaster, a couple near misses than turn out to be fizzers are barely worth a mention. On the Late Show they were showing clips from the rugby game last week, utterly incredulous and envious, "People watching sports without fear".
I was so glad to see that piece. I really was thinking I was going a bit nutty or coming down with a bad case of confirmation bias. We can only hope that articles like this will at least pique the attention of others to take note.
And today's sad little bunch of self focused people. Forget quarantine – much more important to let airlines fly – never mind the health costs to taxpayers and the tremendous economic damage to NZ of rampant covid.
Board of Airline Representatives are an industry body funded one assumes by it's members who are with a couple of exceptions major airlines based offshore.
I see the Taxpayers Union has launched a petition calling for the Minister of Helath to be sacked.
Given this has nothing to do with use of taxpayers money – it's becoming blatantly obvious what sort of political action group this really is. And they claimed government money to subsidise their wages.
Er unlike the taxpayers union or Board of airline reps I do not have my hand in the government pocket for funds nor am I wanting favours that would improve profits at the expense of others.
But hey it's great that you manage the odd little one liner here and there. looking forwards to some long form contributions from you. Or would you be promoting your own self interest a little much?
NZ has another day of no Covid-19 cases in the community.
Tod Mudler will be disappointed, again.
The reality of that statement is mind boggling, a person who wants to be the leader of 5 million uses scare tactics during a global pandemic to woo voters towards him, even worse, the guys a christian conservative.
Have the right completely lost their moral compass?
Maybe, but that would mean he'd have to be able to concentrate on two things at the same time which is unlikely. Here's a photo for a caption competition:
So the final update on my clusterfuck of getting tested due to leaving managed isolation without being tested. This morning I called and made an appointment to go get my testing done at 12:40pm. They were very specific that it was urgent so I was there on time and ready to be swabbed. Once I pulled in and put a mask on they approached my drivers side window and asked how long I had been sick for. I said I wasn't sick so they asked why I was even there. I told them I had gotten out of isolation without being tested. So they asked if the Ministry of Health told me to come in. I said "No one has called me so I'm just doing this to be on the safe side".
"How long ago were you released"?
I told them "10th June"
They said I didn't even need to be there. But whatever, I got it done.
A bit of an omni-shambles. Not sure if there is any central control at all but nonetheless testing complete.
There was never any mentioning of a test and no one else was tested while I was there (I got to know some of the other people who came in with me). I just followed all the advice from the nursing team and did what I was told
You are alive, Covid free and in the safest place in the world and have had 2 weeks of free food and accommodation at a cost of $4000 that the rest of us, most on reduced wages, have paid for, and you are still fucking complaining.
If you ever wanted a definition of an entitled arsehole then you are the perfect example. Fuck you.
You should have stayed in Australia preferably Victoria.
I have no problem with and wholly support the free provision of quarantine and isolation for the health of returning NZers but I have had a gutsful of the tiny minority's entitled and whining behaviour.
He was yesterday explaining that he had not been called for testing (they were looking to test those who had left the managed isolation since June 9 without being tested, and had to make his own arrangments to be tested). He was actually helping them out, rather than whining.
What? After 14 Days in isolation and zero symptoms you consider you may have the virus and would like to be checked to make sure, is that your beef?
The 14 Day Isolation period is the most important part of the process, if you were tested every day for seven consecutive days in row there would be no guarantee you don't have the virus, but because you were in Isolation for the full 14 days, without any symptoms during that period, you're deemed to be virus free.
This was about someone making the effort to assist the government's own exercise in testing all those who left managed isolation without a test since June 9, given he had not been contacted.
I said below because of this my flatmate wasn't allowed into his office because I left isolation without being tested and without being contacted by the MoH – that was part of the reason
Observer, the first example of this was back in February when a symptom-free woman returning from a U.S holiday demanded a test at the border with a "don't you know who I am " attitude and promptly went to the media, and BTW she wasn’t actually anybody anyone knew outside her own echo chamber. It was in the Herald , I think. No surprises there.
Selway said earlier that he too was of to the media. People who don't know how lucky they are, are what piss me off when the rest of us have done the hard work over 3 months without complaining.
And for your and Selways information the tests are still only 65% accurate. That's why physically diagnosed cases are still running at 35%+ above tested ones. So he is complaining that he didn't get a grossly inferior product when the ONLY true test is 14 days symptom free in isolation/quarantine which he had completed.
If you read the last three days of me posting about this I haven't complained once. All I have done is told my story of isolation and having to get myself tested after MoH dropped the ball.
Read that again: I haven't complained once.
I've done all the right things and told my story here. That's fucking it. So fuck off buddy
Oh and –
‘So he is complaining that he didn’t get a grossly inferior product when the ONLY true test is 14 days symptom free in isolation/quarantine which he had completed.”
*cough* asymptomatic transfer *cough*
*cough* 14 days mingling in a hotel with people at different levels of isolation *cough*
So it's my fault MoH didn't test 100's of people arriving at the border? And my behaviour in going to get myself tested of my own volition so I make sure I don't spread it to others in the community is that of an entitled arsehole?
There was no reason to test anybody at the border as your and everybody elses temperature was remotely taken at the border and far more information was known about you before you even got to the exit.
If you actually had read anything about the whys and wherefores of border testing you would realise that testing at the border can easily lead to dangerous assumptions of being infection free. If people have been in self isolation yet need to travel on crowded public transport and transit through terminals then a time period is essential for proper detection of only 65% of actual cases. The only fail safe test is 14 days symptom free even for asymptomatic cases.
You sound wilfully ignorant of the science around the Virus but a virulent Entitlement Syndrome victim.
This was about someone making the effort to assist the government's own exercise in testing all those who left managed isolation without a test since June 9, given he had not been contacted.
Your opine is better targeted with the Muller scare campaign belief in community transmission because of lack of the testing, and media amplification
Not being judgemental as, contrary to some commenters, it's a massive failure to let people leave a 14 day isolation without an all clear test, regardless of when the dates were imposed. Common sense dictates it, surely.
Imagining myself in the same situation, I probably wouldn't have left without demanding a test (if none were given before), baring in mind a symptomatic carriers etc. Lucky for you and your recent contacts, you appear not to have it, and soon you'll have the result to prove it and peace of mind all round.
An issue with the tests though is they take 48 hours (as I was told today after having mine done) so you have a test 2 days before leaving the hotel but during those 2 days you might get exposed from someone else who just arrived while your busy checking out.
They need better planning around separating new arrivals from old arrivals
Ideally it would be a seperate bubble situation with no mingling at all, which would be harsh, but then no harsher than for all of us in level four lockdown.
Failing that, the fourteen days should be sixteen, with the last two after a test in isolation.
The day 12 test should be a formality. Mostly just a backstop to confirm the isolation period. Meaning you'd expect next-to-fuckall positive results. If it comes back positive, they're out for a few hours. Sure, the contacts have to be tracked down, but no big harm.
As opposed to three days of contacts if they get tested on departure, or maybe missing an exposure if they are tested on day 10 and they get it on day 13 because the iso is too lax.
The fact is that the proof is in the pudding, and this pudding has left no covid in the community (even if Toddy Mu- Mu- Muuuuuu Corona can sense it using the Force).
Fair play to your concerns, but you'll be ok. The test will hopefully put your mind at ease on that count.
There was no testing of those in managed isolation (without symptoms) until June 9. And before managed isolation people were in self isolation for 2 weeks without a test.
MOH determined that the risk of spread after 2 weeks in isolation was low.
Of course the consequences goes up a lot at Level 1, so with that move to testing is to be extra safe.
No not quite – I had to stay an extra night so technically the 9th was my 14th day but I had trouble getting transport back to Wellington so they kept me another night because they didn't want me crashing at a friends in Auckland then heading to Wellington because they wanted to know where I was going next was where I would be staying for the next 14 days
I don't know – everyone I have spoken to on the phone and at the testing station seemed to think I had been called already by the MoH but nope. They have all my details so the ball was dropped somewhere. S'all good though – I picked the ball up 🙂
But it shows the basic difference between health care and health politics. Obviously you should have been tested in isolation, and that's a failing. But 16 days after isolation, and with no symptoms – a doctor would say you don't need a test.
Unfortunately test numbers have now become a political measure, a stat like inflation or unemployment or whatever. Over 80,000 tests in past 2 weeks, people queuing for hours in their cars (and statistically in more danger from the road they're queuing on). Massive over-reaction.
I got tested for the sake of everyone else really. I actually saw my doctor yesterday and he said not to bother but thought I would do the right thing. Which, according to Adrian, makes me an entitled asshole.
EDIT: Oh yeah – my flatmates work said he couldn’t come back to the office unless I was tested so I did it for him too
And despite all this we have no community transmission, only imported cases being caught at the border, level one controls that permit an almost normal social and economic life, and are probably the safest place in the world. Oh, perhaps not, the Antipodes Islands will be safer.
So many countries would give everything for a clusterfuck, an omnishambles, or the lack of central control you describe.
The problem we have is not with the aircrew it is with you. We understand that it is stressful laying over in a disease ridden state before flying back with a bunch of potentially disease ridden people and then potentially going back into the community. You then note that the reduction in flying hours had hurt the crew financially. You are supposed to be a top flight manager. You actually appear to have the vision and flight capacity of a dodo.
Which bit of the following could you not manage:
asking for crew to indicate where personal circumstances are more favourable to managing some isolation.
rostering a crew for 1-2 USA flights followed by isolation ( maybe at home) then less rigorous routes – to share the social burden.
getting some of that fashionable full hazmat gear singapore airlines have managed plus a dedicated crew toilet facility. ( even if you take a few less paying passengers)
making sure crew bear no financial penalty by topping up wages for non flying but isolation time. A deduction from your own over large salary which you are clearly not earning should make this a neutral exercise.
Lastly but not least – lockdown and associated costs have cost the NZ taxpayer around $30 billion plus so far as well as large social and emotional costs. Any penny pinching by you shows a complete lack of vision or engagement in the wider economy or welfare of the country. Can you remedy this please by making sure that salary deduction is sufficient to bring your annual income into line with the minimum wage.
Yours
This NZ taxpayer
PS Could I also recommend that you read Richard III by shakespeare. “For the want of a nail a kingdom was lost”.
The Telegraph advises about UK getting air bridges agreements with certain other countries. They must be pretty desperate over there. Of course they are getting near their summer break when they could go somewhere warm by the sea. But they have had 30 degrees lately I think in UK so why not encourage people to holiday within their bubble now that they are out of Brexit and Europe and want to make UK great somehow, by hook or by crook. Do they think they can have their cake and eat it too? Build UK up and spend somewhere else – I wonder if it is the wealthy feeling that Europe was stopping them from having everything they thought they wanted.
"Air bridges" with a series of short-haul destinations are set to be unveiled at the weekend as the Government plots a three-stage approach to revive flying.
The first tranche of bridges are expected to be with popular "low-risk" holiday destinations including France, Italy, Spain, Greece and Germany, largely to "re-fire" the Mediterranean tourist industry from July 4, according to sources.
Portugal is not expected to be included after its spike in coronavirus rates, but the bridges mean people going on holiday to the other destinations will not be required to quarantine for 14 days on their return to the UK.
Ministers hope the plan will enable families to start planning Mediterranean summer breaks to the most popular destinations this weekend….
The razor cut in the evidence bag with the female victims hair in it was a bit "Arthur Allen Thomas cartridge case" to me – plus the photograph used for identification versus Watson's appearance on the evening was very funky. The water taxi driver swearing Watson wasn't the bloke that was with the victims…well…..
Here we go again! Passengers from South Korea are being isolated in a Wellington hotel so it is time for a few reporters to stir the pot: https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/121954765/coronavirus-returnees-from-korea-arrive-in-wellington-for-14day-isolation. Since there is a school across the road parents must be warned to be concerned, even though there is little chance of children being within 2 metres of anyone who is symptomatic. Parents were advised of the situation, but not days in advance as the media seems to think is necessary. Perhaps the logic of the reporters centres on wanting more time to report on the pre-emptive protest activities of the self-entitled that they attempt to stir up. Of course, any reporter worth his or her salt will make enquiries of the 'affected'. Good job Bryce Edwards, the political scientist who seems to have lost his opinion column gig at the Guardian was available and has two children at the school. The whole stir-up appears to have had the big yawn from the school principal though, judging by her comments. Best of all was the real 'grown-up', a delightful girl with an incandescent smile standing at the hotel entrance with her 'Welcome home. Be kind to everyone' sign.
Generally people employed do what they need to do, consult, make decisions and proceed on the information they have. Quite often out here in computer land we know better.
Hotel can't be that busy if there's plane loads of arrivals getting booked in, so I'd imagine occupancy levels were pretty low, with no foreign tourists to fill the vacant rooms.
Aren't you nat types supposedly wanting the government to look after the hospitality industry? So it follows the national parties concern li(n)es are, in fact, not crocodile tears but more like regular bull shit.
Good to get the insight straight from the blue donkey's arse.
How many kiwi families are being supported by the wages these government funded returnees are paying, do you reckon? And not just the hotel staff, but all the support services, like laundry, food suppliers, delivery drivers, etc. And then the shops these people spend their money in etc.
You blue outrage types – Anything for a pearl clutch 🙄
a tory makes an assumption based on reckons of what happens when an industry is healthy (e.g. the ministry is paying full sticker price on every room, there are no students in any hall of residence);
the lefty must play along and pretend that the assumption is true, and that no government entity e.g. did anything close to a responsible assessment of available resources;
the lefty must then provide copies of the actual correspondence and receipts in order to disprove the tory's half-arsed reckons.
Apparently HoR are all higher security than a five-star hotel, and have expansive suites rather than a bed, a desk, and a closet.
FWIW, I've been in HoR (aka "residential colleges" now – they provide academic support) rooms and hotel rooms, and the closest hotel room to a HoR I've been in was a youth hostel.
Maybe we could iso people like a freaking monk for two weeks for cheaper, but then also maybe the ministry went "nice place, you're looking as 0-5% capacity for the next six months if you're lucky, wanna cut us a rate?"
Assuming the govt isn't getting a decent discount.
And assuming the halls are empty (many aren't).
And assuming it's not a false economy to try to run an effective program of isolation if you're bussing a plane load to 20 different boutique locally-owned bed and breakfasts rather than finding a place that can take a planeload at a time.
But keep "questioning". Your financial inefficiency detector is probably about the same class as Muller's community spread detector: pessimistic and not based on anything in reality.
a tory makes an assumption based on reckons of what happens when an industry is healthy (e.g. the ministry is paying full sticker price on every room, there are no students in any hall of residence);
the lefty must play along and pretend that the assumption is true, and that no government entity e.g. did anything close to a responsible assessment of available resources;
the lefty must then provide copies of the actual correspondence and receipts in order to disprove the tory's half-arsed reckons.
It seems there aren't small minded neighbours who would rather see the hotel boarded up and the staff without jobs. Besides, are the halls of residence empty and able to be serviced appropriately for isolation? The answers appear to be 'No' and 'No'.
Was there any comments on why they have to be housed in a 5 star hotel, when there are a shit load of empty Halls of Residence up the road at the uni?
Or does the coalition not consider things like that?
Aren't HoR communal?
You want people to actually stay in their rooms and be comfortable enough to do that, HoRs (from memory) are designed for young people who spend most of their time in class or socialising.
I've been in at least half a dozen HoR around UniOtago and a couple in wellington (work related, usually). Most are one bed, one desk, and showers/toilets down the hall (lol exaclty what you want when you're worried someone has a disease that causes the runs). Communal lounge, dining room, maybe a gym and tennis court.
And the cheapest hotel/motel I've been in that wasn't a hostel or camp ground was a room with a large bed, desk, TV, fridge, kichenette, and en suite. Prospect of some manner of bug or fungus quite high in the cheapest places though.
The bonus to a hotel beyond the basics is that they usually have commercial kitchens and conference facilities, so medics can work in the facilities and the kitchens can do the room service on a large scale.
What the real whinge seems to be about is the assumption that moh, on some of the hotels, is paying five star prices – a gripe for which there is no evidence whatsoever. Which is funny, because didn't john banks say he didn't think he was being bribed/influenced/whatever because nobody pays sticker prices for hotel stays? lol
not sure why they haven't used motels though, giving people the option to cook their own food (I'd be pretty grumpy with catered food by the end of 14 days). I'm guessing hotels are easier to manage and keep an eye on large numbers of people.
Really hoping they're doing right by families with kids, and disabled people.
Now, Otago might be a bit different to some of the other unis (if you read Critic over lockdown lol) but I do know they had students resident in colleges all the way through L4 and onwards. They're only just in the midyear break atm.
For that reason I'd suspect HoR would be more likely to have some occupancy all the way through than any hotel.
That's my understanding too (Otago Uni students had the choice to stay or not. Not sure how they managed the distancing etc, but I assume there were protocols).
There were schedulled mealtimes (e.g. floor by floor) in one hall a mate works at, but dealing with freshers is like herding cats. An earnest effort was made though 🙂
Yes, but what about the real 'grown-up', a delightful girl with an incandescent smile who was standing at the hotel entrance with her 'Welcome home. Be kind to everyone' sign. She is worth a hundred ChrisT's and any other fucker that thinks NZ citizens should come home to be isolated in cardboard boxes with meals of cold gruel, along with people from the service industries who don't have useful jobs because some half-arsed fucker thinks the Government shouldn't do cheap accommodation deals in hotels.
A primary reason for this is that if any student had made use of any Youth Guarantee programme that runs on the NZ Qualification Framework, that adds up to more than 60 credits, they are ineligible for Fees Free.
This means that any student that has used an alternative pathway to tertiary study, will find that that pathway, delivered apathetically and worth – at most $2,500 – will not only not have provided the prerequisites for more academic study, but will have made them ineligible for Fees Free for Level 4 study in a tertiary institution.
Notably:
1. The NZQF framework is run parallel to the NZQA framework, but is regarded and delivered with a substantial amount of scorn and disregard in comparison. However, a NZQF course for over 60 credits – at Level 3 (secondary school level) – makes you ineligible. (Many attend these courses as a requirement of WINZ, which raises a whole raft of issues in terms of quality of delivery and engagement).
2. Alternative pathways through Open Polytechnic that provide literacy and numeracy credits that can be used as pre-requisites for tertiary study, used to be available for free. They are still available but if utilised also make you ineligible for the first year of study Fees Free.
Fees Free as it is – precludes many from being able to access it. Particularly those it said it aimed to assist.
A badly designed and implemented policy. It needs comprehensive review and improvement.
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Text within this block will maintain its original spacing when publishedFirst they came for the doctors But I was confused by the numbers and costs So I didn't speak up Then they came for our police and nurses And I didn't think we could afford those costs anyway So I ...
Photo by Joshua J. Cotten on UnsplashWe’re back again after our mid-winter break. We’re still with the ‘new’ day of the week (Thursday rather than Friday) when we have our ‘hoon’ webinar with paying subscribers to The Kākā for an hour at 5 pm.Jump on this link on YouTube Livestream ...
Notes: This is a free article. Abuse in Care themes are mentioned. Video is at the bottom.BackgroundYesterday’s report into Abuse in Care revealed that at least 1 in 3 of all who went through state and faith based care were abused - often horrifically. At least, because not all survivors ...
Luxon speaks in Parliament yesterday about the Abuse in Care report. Photo: Hagen Hopkins/Getty ImagesTL;DR: The top six things I’ve noted around housing, climate and poverty in Aotearoa’s political economy today are:PM Christopher Luxon said yesterday in tabling the Abuse in Carereport in Parliament he wanted to ‘do the ...
About a decade ago I worked with a bloke called Steve. He was the grizzled veteran coder, a few years older than me, who knew where the bodies were buried - code wise. Despite his best efforts to be approachable and friendly he could be kind of gruff, through to ...
Some of the recent announcements from the government have reminded us of posts we’ve written in the past. Here’s one from early 2020. There were plenty of reactions to the government’s infrastructure announcement a few weeks ago which saw them fund a bunch of big roading projects. One of ...
TL;DR: My pick of the top six links elsewhere around housing, climate and poverty in Aotearoa’s political economy in the last day or so to 7:00 am on Thursday, July 25 are:News: Why Electric Kiwi is closing to new customers - and why it matters RNZ’s Susan EdmundsScoop: Government drops ...
Hi,I felt a small wet tongue snaking through one of the holes in my Crocs. It explored my big toe, darting down one side, then the other. “He’s looking for some toe cheese,” said the woman next to me, words that still haunt me to this day.Growing up in New ...
Yesterday I happily quoted the Prime Minister without fact-checking him and sure enough, it turns out his numbers were all to hell. It’s not four kg of Royal Commission report, it’s fourteen.My friend and one-time colleague-in-comms Hazel Phillips gently alerted me to my error almost as soon as I’d hit ...
TL;DR: As of 6:00 am on Thursday, July 25, the top six announcements, speeches, reports and research around housing, climate and poverty in Aotearoa’s political economy in the last day were:The Abuse in Care Royal Commission of Inquirypublished its final report yesterday.PM Christopher Luxon and The Minister responsible for ...
The Official Information Act has always been a battle between requesters seeking information, and governments seeking to control it. Information is power, so Ministers and government agencies want to manage what is released and when, for their own convenience, and legality and democracy be damned. Their most recent tactic for ...
TL;DR: The top six things I’ve noted around housing, climate and poverty in Aotearoa’s political economy today are:Transport and Energy Minister Simeon Brown is accelerating plans to spend at least $10 billion through Public Private Partnerships (PPPs) to extend State Highway One as a four-lane ‘Expressway’ from Warkworth to Whangarei ...
I live my life (woo-ooh-ooh)With no control in my destinyYea-yeah, yea-yeah (woo-ooh-ooh)I can bleed when I want to bleedSo come on, come on (woo-ooh-ooh)You can bleed when you want to bleedYea-yeah, come on (woo-ooh-ooh)Everybody bleed when they want to bleedCome on and bleedGovernments face tough challenges. Selling unpopular decisions to ...
Please note:To skip directly to the- parliamentary footage in the video, scroll to 1:21 To skip to audio please click on the headphone iconon the left hand side of the screenThis video / audio section is under development. ...
Given the crackdown on wasteful government spending, it behooves me to point to a high profile example of spending by the Luxon government that looks like a big, fat waste of time and money. I’m talking about the deployment of NZDF personnel to support the US-led coalition in the Red ...
TL;DR: My pick of the top six links elsewhere around housing, climate and poverty in Aotearoa’s political economy in the last day or so to 7:40 am on Wednesday, July 24 are:Deep Dive: Chipping away at the housing crisis, including my comments RNZ/Newsroom’s The DetailNews: Government softens on asset sales, ...
As I reported about the city centre, Auckland’s rail network is also going through a difficult and disruptive period which is rapidly approaching a culmination, this will result in a significant upgrade to the whole network. Hallelujah. Also like the city centre this is an upgrade predicated on the City ...
Today, a 4 kilogram report will be delivered to Parliament. We know this is what the report of the Royal Commission of Inquiry into Abuse in State and Faith-based Care weighs, because our Prime Minister told us so.Some reporter had blindsided him by asking a question about something done by ...
TL;DR: As of 7:00 am on Wednesday, July 24, the top six announcements, speeches, reports and research around housing, climate and poverty in Aotearoa’s political economy in the last day are:Beehive:Transport Minister Simeon Brownannounced plans to use PPPs to fund, build and run a four-lane expressway between Auckland ...
NewstalkZB host Mike Hosking, who can usually be relied on to give Prime Minister Christopher Luxon an easy run, did not do so yesterday when he interviewed him about the HealthNZ deficit. Luxon is trying to use a deficit reported last year by HealthNZ as yet another example of the ...
Back in January a StatsNZ employee gave a speech at Rātana on behalf of tangata whenua in which he insulted and criticised the government. The speech clearly violated the principle of a neutral public service, and StatsNZ started an investigation. Part of that was getting an external consultant to examine ...
Renting for life: Shared ownership initiatives are unlikely to slow the slide in home ownership by much. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāTL;DR: The top six things I’ve noted around housing, climate and poverty in Aotearoa’s political economy today are:A Deloittereport for Westpac has projected Aotearoa’s home-ownership rate will ...
You're broken down and tiredOf living life on a merry go roundAnd you can't find the fighterBut I see it in you so we gonna walk it outAnd move mountainsWe gonna walk it outAnd move mountainsAnd I'll rise upI'll rise like the dayI'll rise upI'll rise unafraidI'll rise upAnd I'll ...
There’s been a change in Myers Park. Down the steps from St. Kevin’s Arcade, past the grassy slopes, the children’s playground, the benches and that goat statue, there has been a transformation. The underpass for Mayoral Drive has gone from a barren, grey, concrete tunnel, to a place that thrums ...
This is a re-post from Yale Climate Connections Global society may have finally slammed on the brakes for climate-warming pollution released by human fossil fuel combustion. According to the Carbon Monitor Project, the total global climate pollution released between February and May 2024 declined slightly from the amount released during the same ...
TL;DR: My pick of the top six links elsewhere around housing, climate and poverty in Aotearoa’s political economy in the last day or so to 7:00 am on Tuesday, July 23 are:Deep Dive: Penlink: where tolling rhetoric meets reality BusinessDesk-$$$’sOliver LewisScoop:Te Pūkenga plans for regional polytechs leak out ...
TL;DR: As of 6:00 am on Tuesday, July 23, the top six announcements, speeches, reports and research around housing, climate and poverty in Aotearoa’s political economy in the last day are:Health: Shane Reti announcedthe Board of Te Whatu Ora-Health New Zealand was being replaced with Commissioner Lester Levy ...
Health NZ warned the Government at the end of March that it was running over Budget. But the reasons it gave were very different to those offered by the Prime Minister yesterday. Prime Minister Christopher Luxon blamed the “botched merger” of the 20 District Health Boards (DHBs) to create Health ...
Long ReadKey Summary: Although National increased the health budget by $1.4 billion in May, they used an old funding model to project health system costs, and never bothered to update their pre-election numbers. They were told during the Health Select Committees earlier in the year their budget amount was deficient, ...
As a momentous, historic weekend in US politics unfolded, analysts and commentators grasped for precedents and comparisons to help explain the significance and power of the choice Joe Biden had made. The 46th president had swept the Democratic party’s primaries but just over 100 days from the election had chosen ...
TL;DR: I’m casting around for new ideas and ways of thinking about Aotearoa’s political economy to find a few solutions to our cascading and self-reinforcing housing, poverty and climate crises.Associate Professor runs an online masters degree in the economics of sustainability at Torrens University in Australia and is organising ...
The Finance and Expenditure Committee has reported back on National's Local Government (Water Services Preliminary Arrangements) Bill. The bill sets up water for privatisation, and was introduced under urgency, then rammed through select committee with no time even for local councils to make a proper submission. Naturally, national's select committee ...
Some years ago, I bought a book at Dunedin’s Regent Booksale for $1.50. As one does. Vandrad the Viking (1898), by J. Storer Clouston, is an obscure book these days – I cannot find a proper online review – but soon it was sitting on my shelf, gathering dust alongside ...
History is not on the side of the centre-left, when Democratic presidents fall behind in the polls and choose not to run for re-election. On both previous occasions in the past 75 years (Harry Truman in 1952, Lyndon Johnson in 1968) the Democrats proceeded to then lose the White House ...
This is a free articleCoverageThis morning, US President Joe Biden announced his withdrawal from the Presidential race. And that is genuinely newsworthy. Thanks for your service, President Biden, and all the best to you and yours.However, the media in New Zealand, particularly the 1News nightly bulletin, has been breathlessly covering ...
A homeless person’s camp beside a blocked-off slipped damage walkway in Freeman’s Bay: we are chasing our tail on our worsening and inter-related housing, poverty and climate crises. Photo: Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāTL;DR: The top six things I’ve noted around housing, climate and poverty in Aotearoa’s political economy ...
What has happened to it all?Crazy, some'd sayWhere is the life that I recognise?(Gone away)But I won't cry for yesterdayThere's an ordinary worldSomehow I have to findAnd as I try to make my wayTo the ordinary worldYesterday morning began as many others - what to write about today? I began ...
TL;DR: My pick of the top six links elsewhere around housing, climate and poverty in Aotearoa’s political economy in the last day or so to 7:00 am on Monday, July 22 are:Today’s Must Read: Father and son live in a tent, and have done for four years, in a million ...
TL;DR: As of 7:00 am on Monday, July 22, the top six announcements, speeches, reports and research around housing, climate and poverty in Aotearoa’s political economy in the last day are:US President Joe Biden announced via X this morning he would not stand for a second term.Multinational professional services firm ...
A listing of 32 news and opinion articles we found interesting and shared on social media during the past week: Sun, July 14, 2024 thru Sat, July 20, 2024. Story of the week As reflected by preponderance of coverage, our Story of the Week is Project 2025. Until now traveling ...
This weekend, a friend pointed out someone who said they’d like to read my posts, but didn’t want to pay. And my first reaction was sympathy.I’ve already told folks that if they can’t comfortably subscribe, and would like to read, I’d be happy to offer free subscriptions. I don’t want ...
National: The Party of ‘Law and Order’ IntroductionThis weekend, the Government formally kicked off one of their flagship policy programs: a military style boot camp that New Zealand has experimented with over the past 50 years. Cartoon credit: Guy BodyIt’s very popular with the National Party’s Law and Orderimage, ...
Day one of the solo leg of my long journey home begins with my favourite sound: footfalls in an empty street. 5.00 am and it’s already light and already too warm, almost.If I can make the train that leaves Budapest later this hour I could be in Belgrade by nightfall; ...
Do you remember Y2K, the threat that hung over humanity in the closing days of the twentieth century? Horror scenarios of planes falling from the sky, electronic payments failing and ATMs refusing to dispense cash. As for your VCR following instructions and recording your favourite show - forget about it.All ...
Climate Change Minister Simon Watts being questioned by The Kākā’s Bernard Hickey.TL;DR: My top six things to note around housing, climate and poverty in Aotearoa’s political economy in the week to July 20 were:1. A strategy that fails Zero Carbon Act & Paris targetsThe National-ACT-NZ First Coalition Government finally unveiled ...
Summary:As New Zealand loses at least 12 leaders in the public service space of health, climate, and pharmaceuticals, this month alone, directly in response to the Government’s policies and budget choices, what lies ahead may be darker than it appears. Tui examines some of those departures and draws a long ...
The Minister of Housing’s ambition is to reduce markedly the ratio of house prices to household incomes. If his strategy works it would transform the housing market, dramatically changing the prospects of housing as an investment.Leaving aside the Minister’s metaphor of ‘flooding the market’ I do not see how the ...
As previously noted, my historical fantasy piece, set in the fifth-century Mediterranean, was accepted for a Pirate Horror anthology, only for the anthology to later fall through. But in a good bit of news, it turned out that the story could indeed be re-marketed as sword and sorcery. As of ...
An employee of tobacco company Philip Morris International demonstrates a heated tobacco device. Photo: Getty ImagesTL;DR: The top six things I’ve noted around housing, climate and poverty in Aotearoa’s political economy on Friday, July 19 are:At a time when the Coalition Government is cutting spending on health, infrastructure, education, housing ...
TL;DR: My pick of the top six links elsewhere around housing, climate and poverty in Aotearoa’s political economy in the last day or so to 8:30 am on Friday, July 19 are:Scoop: NZ First Minister Casey Costello orders 50% cut to excise tax on heated tobacco products. The minister has ...
Kia ora, it’s time for another Friday roundup, in which we pull together some of the links and stories that caught our eye this week. Feel free to add more in the comments! Our header image this week shows a foggy day in Auckland town, captured by Patrick Reynolds. ...
TL;DR : Here’s the top six items climate news for Aotearoa this week, as selected by Bernard Hickey and The Kākā’s climate correspondent Cathrine Dyer. A discussion recorded yesterday is in the video above and the audio of that sent onto the podcast feed.The Government released its draft Emissions Reduction ...
Save some money, get rich and old, bring it back to Tobacco Road.Bring that dynamite and a crane, blow it up, start all over again.Roll up. Roll up. Or tailor made, if you prefer...Whether you’re selling ciggies, digging for gold, catching dolphins in your nets, or encouraging folks to flutter ...
Waiting In The Wings:For truly, if Trump is America’s un-assassinated Caesar, then J.D. Vance is America’s Octavian, the Republic’s youthful undertaker – and its first Emperor.DONALD TRUMP’S SELECTION of James D. Vance as his running-mate bodes ill for the American republic. A fervent supporter of Viktor Orban, the “illiberal” prime ...
TL;DR: As of 6:00 am on Friday, July 19, the top six announcements, speeches, reports and research around housing, climate and poverty in Aotearoa’s political economy in the last day are:The PSAannounced the Employment Relations Authority (ERA) had ruled in the PSA’s favour in its case against the Ministry ...
TL;DR: The podcast above of the weekly ‘hoon’ webinar for paying subscribers last night features co-hosts and talking with:The Kākā’s climate correspondent talking about the National-ACT-NZ First Government’s release of its first Emissions Reduction Plan;University of Otago Foreign Relations Professor and special guest Dr Karin von ...
Open access notablesImproving global temperature datasets to better account for non-uniform warming, Calvert, Quarterly Journal of the Royal Meteorological Society:To better account for spatial non-uniform trends in warming, a new GITD [global instrumental temperature dataset] was created that used maximum likelihood estimation (MLE) to combine the land surface ...
A late change to charter school legislation will cheat educators out of fair pay and negotiating power proving charter schools are just a vehicle to make profit out of our education system. ...
In 2004 te iwi Māori rallied against the Crown’s attempt to confiscate our coastlines and moana with the Foreshore and Seabed Act. This led to the largest hīkoi of a generation and the birth of Te Pāti Māori. 20 years later, history is repeating itself. Today the government has announced ...
It has been five and a half years since the Royal Commission of Inquiry into Abuse in Care was established to investigate the abuse of children, young people, and vulnerable adults within state and faith-based institutions. Yesterday, the final report - Whanaketia through pain and trauma, from darkness to light ...
The Green Party is calling on the Government to take action off the back of the International Court of Justice ruling on Israel’s illegal occupation of Palestine. ...
On Friday the International Court of Justice reaffirmed what Palestinian’s have been telling us for decades: that the occupation and colonisation of Palestinian lands by Israel is illegal and must end immediately. They also called for reparations for Palestinian’s who have lived under Israeli occupation since it began in 1967. ...
Labour calls on the Government to act after the International Court of Justice (ICJ) ruled that Israel’s occupation of Palestinian Territories is illegal. ...
The 53.7 percent rise in benefit sanctions over the last year is more proof of this Government’s disdain for our communities most in need of support. ...
Aotearoa could be a country where every child grows up feeling safe, loved and with a sense of belonging in their whānau and community. But for some of our children, this is far from reality. Instead, they are trapped in a maze of intergenerational harm that they can’t escape on ...
Te Pāti Māori are calling for David Seymour to resign as Associate Health Minister in response to his call for Pharmac to ignore the Treaty of Waitangi. “This announcement is just another example of the government’s anti-Tiriti, anti-Māori agenda.” Said Co-leader and spokesperson for health, Debbie Ngarewa-Packer. “Seymour thinks it ...
The soaring price of renting is driving the rise of inflation in this country - with latest figures from Stats NZ showing rents are up 4.8 per cent on average while annual inflation is at 3.3 per cent. ...
National’s Emissions Reduction Plan will take New Zealand further from the economy we need to ensure the next generation has a stable climate and secure livelihoods. ...
Following consultation with named parties and thorough consideration of privacy interests, the Green Party is in a position to release the Executive Summary of the final report from the independent investigation into Darleen Tana. ...
Prime Minister Christopher Luxon should be asking serious questions of his Minister for Resources Shane Jones now it’s been revealed he misled the public about a dinner with mining companies that he didn’t declare and said wasn’t pre-arranged. ...
Te Pāti Māori have submitted to the Justice Select Committee against the Sentencing (Reinstating Three Strikes) Amendment Bill. The bill will further entrench racism in our justice system and fails to focus on rehabilitation. “Reinstating Three Strikes will empower a systematically racist system and exacerbate the overrepresentation of Māori in ...
The Transport and Infrastructure Committee is set to make a determination on the Residential Tenancies Amendment (RTA) Bill in the coming weeks. “This legislation will give landlords the power to kick our whānau out onto the street for no reason” said Housing spokesperson, Mariameno Kapa-Kingi. “Their solution to the housing ...
“National’s campaign was about tackling crime and the best they can do is a two-year long Ministerial Advisory Group,” Labour justice spokesperson Duncan Webb said. ...
“There are more examples of charter schools failing their students than there are success stories. The coalition Government is driving to dismantle our public school system and instead promote a privatised, competitive structure that puts profits before kids,” Jan Tinetti said. ...
“This government is choosing to deliberately mislead and withhold information, keeping our people in the dark about this government’s agenda and the future of our mokopuna,” said co-leader and spokesperson for Health, Debbie Ngarewa-Packer. The call comes after the demand from the Chief Ombudsman that Associate Minister of Health, Casey ...
“Today’s climate announcement by Simon Watts makes clear the National Government is simply paying lip service to meeting its climate change targets,” Megan Woods said. ...
National is choosing to make life harder for workers by taking away the rights our communities have fought hard for. Here's how they’re taking workers backwards. ...
Australia, Canada and New Zealand today issued the following statement on the need for an urgent ceasefire in Gaza and the risk of expanded conflict between Hizballah and Israel. The situation in Gaza is catastrophic. The human suffering is unacceptable. It cannot continue. We remain unequivocal in our condemnation of ...
Attorney-General Judith Collins today reminded all State and faith-based institutions of their legal obligation to preserve records relevant to the safety and wellbeing of those in its care. “The Abuse in Care Inquiry’s report has found cases where records of the most vulnerable people in State and faith‑based institutions were ...
Minister of Internal Affairs Brooke van Velden says the Government’s online safety website for children and young people has reached one million page views. “It is great to see so many young people and their families accessing the site Keep It Real Online to learn how to stay safe online, and manage ...
Tēnā tātou katoa, Ngā mihi te rangi, ngā mihi te whenua, ngā mihi ki a koutou, kia ora mai koutou. Thank you for the opportunity to be here and the invitation to speak at this 50th anniversary conference. I acknowledge all those who have gone before us and paved the ...
New Zealand’s payroll providers have successfully prepared to ensure 3.5 million individuals will, from Wednesday next week, be able to keep more of what they earn each pay, says Finance Minister Nicola Willis and Revenue Minister Simon Watts. “The Government's tax policy changes are legally effective from Wednesday. Delivering this tax ...
An experimental vineyard which will help futureproof the wine sector has been opened in Blenheim by Associate Regional Development Minister Mark Patterson. The covered vineyard, based at the New Zealand Wine Centre – Te Pokapū Wāina o Aotearoa, enables controlled environmental conditions. “The research that will be produced at the Experimental ...
The Coalition Government has confirmed the indicative regional breakdown of North Island Weather Event (NIWE) funding for state highway recovery projects funded through Budget 2024, Transport Minister Simeon Brown says. “Regions in the North Island suffered extensive and devastating damage from Cyclone Gabrielle and the 2023 Auckland Anniversary Floods, and ...
Indonesia’s Foreign Minister, Retno Marsudi, will visit New Zealand next week, Foreign Minister Winston Peters has announced. “Indonesia is important to New Zealand’s security and economic interests and is our closest South East Asian neighbour,” says Mr Peters, who is currently in Laos to engage with South East Asian partners. ...
He aha te kai a te rangatira? He kōrero, he kōrero, he kōrero. The government has reaffirmed its commitment to supporting the aspirations of Ngāti Maniapoto, Minister for Māori Development Tama Potaka says. “My thanks to Te Nehenehenui Trust – Ngāti Maniapoto for bringing their important kōrero to a ministerial ...
Transport Minister Simeon Brown has thanked outgoing Chair of the Civil Aviation Authority, Janice Fredric, for her service to the board.“I have received Ms Fredric’s resignation from the role of Chair of the Civil Aviation Authority,” Mr Brown says.“On behalf of the Government, I want to thank Ms Fredric for ...
The Government is proposing legislation to overturn a Court of Appeal decision and amend the Marine and Coastal Area Act in order to restore Parliament’s test for Customary Marine Title, Treaty Negotiations Minister Paul Goldsmith says. “Section 58 required an applicant group to prove they have exclusively used and occupied ...
Regulation Minister David Seymour says that opposition parties have united in bad faith, opposing what they claim are ‘dangerous changes’ to the Early Childhood Education sector, despite no changes even being proposed yet. “Issues with affordability and availability of early childhood education, and the complexity of its regulation, has led ...
After receiving more than 740 submissions in the first 20 days, Regulation Minister David Seymour is asking the Ministry for Regulation to extend engagement on the early childhood education regulation review by an extra two weeks. “The level of interest has been very high, and from the conversations I’ve been ...
The Coalition Government is investing $802.9 million into the Wairarapa and Manawatū rail lines as part of a funding agreement with the NZ Transport Agency (NZTA), KiwiRail, and the Greater Wellington and Horizons Regional Councils to deliver more reliable services for commuters in the lower North Island, Transport Minister Simeon ...
Local Government Minister Simeon Brown has announced his intention to appoint a Crown Manager to both Hawke’s Bay Regional and Wairoa District Councils to speed up the delivery of flood protection work in Wairoa."Recent severe weather events in Wairoa this year, combined with damage from Cyclone Gabrielle in 2023 have ...
Mr Speaker, this is a day that many New Zealanders who were abused in State care never thought would come. It’s the day that this Parliament accepts, with deep sorrow and regret, the Report of the Royal Commission of Inquiry into Abuse in Care. At the heart of this report are the ...
For the first time, the Government is formally acknowledging some children and young people at Lake Alice Psychiatric Hospital experienced torture. The final report of the Royal Commission of Inquiry into Abuse in State and Faith-based Care “Whanaketia – through pain and trauma, from darkness to light,” was tabled in Parliament ...
The Government has acknowledged the nearly 2,400 courageous survivors who shared their experiences during the Royal Commission of Inquiry into Historical Abuse in State and Faith-Based Care. The final report from the largest and most complex public inquiry ever held in New Zealand, the Royal Commission Inquiry “Whanaketia – through ...
With a week to go before hard-working New Zealanders see personal income tax relief for the first time in fourteen years, 513,000 people have used the Budget tax calculator to see how much they will benefit, says Finance Minister Nicola Willis. “Tax relief is long overdue. From next Wednesday, personal income ...
Workplace Relations and Safety Minister Brooke van Velden says a bill that has passed its first reading will improve parental leave settings and give non-biological parents more flexibility as primary carer for their child. The Regulatory Systems Amendment Bill (No3), passed its first reading this morning. “It includes a change ...
Two Bills designed to improve regulation and make it easier to do business have passed their first reading in Parliament, says Economic Development Minister Melissa Lee. The Regulatory Systems (Economic Development) Amendment Bill and Regulatory Systems (Immigration and Workforce) Amendment Bill make key changes to legislation administered by the Ministry ...
New legislation paves the way for greater competition in sectors such as banking and electricity, Commerce and Consumer Affairs Minister Andrew Bayly says. “Competitive markets boost productivity, create employment opportunities and lift living standards. To support competition, we need good quality regulation but, unfortunately, a recent OECD report ranked New ...
Minister of Internal Affairs Brooke van Velden says lotteries for charitable purposes, such as those run by the Heart Foundation, Coastguard NZ, and local hospices, will soon be allowed to operate online permanently. “Under current laws, these fundraising lotteries are only allowed to operate online until October 2024, after which ...
The Coalition Government is accelerating work on the new four-lane expressway between Auckland and Whangārei as part of its Roads of National Significance programme, with an accelerated delivery model to deliver this project faster and more efficiently, Transport Minister Simeon Brown says. “For too long, the lack of resilient transport connections ...
Sir Don McKinnon will travel to Viet Nam this week as a Special Envoy of the Government, Foreign Minister Winston Peters has announced. “It is important that the Government give due recognition to the significant contributions that General Secretary Nguyen Phu Trong made to New Zealand-Viet Nam relations,” Mr ...
Minister of Internal Affairs Brooke van Velden says newly appointed Commissioner, Grant Illingworth KC, will help deliver the report for the first phase of the Royal Commission of Inquiry into COVID-19 Lessons, due on 28 November 2024. “I am pleased to announce that Mr Illingworth will commence his appointment as ...
Foreign Minister Winston Peters travels to Laos this week to participate in a series of Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN)-led Ministerial meetings in Vientiane. “ASEAN plays an important role in supporting a peaceful, stable and prosperous Indo-Pacific,” Mr Peters says. “This will be our third visit to ...
Construction of a new mental health facility at Te Nikau Grey Hospital in Greymouth is today one step closer, Mental Health Minister Matt Doocey says. “This $27 million facility shows this Government is delivering on its promise to boost mental health care and improve front line services,” Mr Doocey says. ...
New Zealand is committing nearly $50 million to a package supporting sustainable Pacific fisheries development over the next four years, Foreign Minister Winston Peters and Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones announced today. “This support consisting of a range of initiatives demonstrates New Zealand’s commitment to assisting our Pacific partners ...
Associate Education Minister David Seymour says proposed changes to the Education and Training Amendment Bill will ensure charter schools have more flexibility to negotiate employment agreements and are equipped with the right teaching resources. “Cabinet has agreed to progress an amendment which means unions will not be able to initiate ...
In response to serious concerns around oversight, overspend and a significant deterioration in financial outlook, the Board of Health New Zealand will be replaced with a Commissioner, Health Minister Dr Shane Reti announced today. “The previous government’s botched health reforms have created significant financial challenges at Health NZ that, without ...
Minister for Space and Science, Innovation and Technology Judith Collins will travel to Adelaide tomorrow for space and science engagements, including speaking at the Australian Space Forum. While there she will also have meetings and visits with a focus on space, biotechnology and innovation. “New Zealand has a thriving space ...
Climate Change Minister Simon Watts will travel to China on Saturday to attend the Ministerial on Climate Action meeting held in Wuhan. “Attending the Ministerial on Climate Action is an opportunity to advocate for New Zealand climate priorities and engage with our key partners on climate action,” Mr Watts says. ...
Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones is travelling to the Solomon Islands tomorrow for meetings with his counterparts from around the Pacific supporting collective management of the region’s fisheries. The 23rd Pacific Islands Forum Fisheries Committee and the 5th Regional Fisheries Ministers’ Meeting in Honiara from 23 to 26 July ...
The Government today launched the Military Style Academy Pilot at Te Au rere a te Tonga Youth Justice residence in Palmerston North, an important part of the Government’s plan to crackdown on youth crime and getting youth offenders back on track, Minister for Children, Karen Chhour said today. “On the ...
The Government has welcomed news the NZ Transport Agency (NZTA) has begun work to replace nine priority bridges across the country to ensure our state highway network remains resilient, reliable, and efficient for road users, Transport Minister Simeon Brown says.“Increasing productivity and economic growth is a key priority for the ...
Acting Prime Minister David Seymour has been in contact throughout the evening with senior officials who have coordinated a whole of government response to the global IT outage and can provide an update. The Department of the Prime Minister and Cabinet has designated the National Emergency Management Agency as the ...
New Zealand and Japan will continue to step up their shared engagement with the Pacific, Foreign Minister Winston Peters says. “New Zealand and Japan have a strong, shared interest in a free, open and stable Pacific Islands region,” Mr Peters says. “We are pleased to be finding more ways ...
New developments in the heart of North Island forestry country will reinvigorate their communities and boost economic development, Regional Development Minister Shane Jones says. Mr Jones visited Kaingaroa and Kawerau in Bay of Plenty today to open a landmark community centre in the former and a new connecting road in ...
President Adeang, fellow Ministers, honourable Diet Member Horii, Ambassadors, distinguished guests. Minasama, konnichiwa, and good afternoon, everyone. Distinguished guests, it’s a pleasure to be here with you today to talk about New Zealand’s foreign policy reset, the reasons for it, the values that underpin it, and how it ...
Last summer when Matairangi burned, Ginny and Tom stood at the window of their lounge, watching kākā shoot skyward from the burning trees. From the distance, they looked to Ginny like pages torn from books and thrown into a bonfire. It was Tom, voice tight, who told her it was ...
Opinion: The Canadian short story writer Alice Munro – winner of the Nobel Prize in Literature in 2013 – died in May at the age of 92. Her work was about “the damage people inflict on one another in the name of love”, Deborah Treisman wrote in the New Yorker. ...
This month marks two years since the most powerful telescope ever built sent its first pictures back to earth. From its lofty vantage point, beyond the moon in orbit around the sun, the James Webb Space Telescope was tuned to observe the first stars and galaxies being born soon after ...
Comment: After Climate Change Minister Simon Watts’ preview several weeks ago, I had some optimism about the Government’s emissions reduction plan. Now I’ve read the discussion document, that hope has been dashed. How can the Government propose a plan that wants to take New Zealand taxpayers’ hard-earned money, and spend ...
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Being woke doesn't necessarily make someone braindead. It just often seems that it does:
What's going on here? Herding. On the basis that it is inappropriate for white folk to acknowledge the merit in what a black person says. Apparently. If you feel the woke doing the herding of the politician in the above instance are not doing so on that basis, feel free to explain what you believe their basis actually is…
Or a man to quote Mary Wollstonecraft on the rights of women or any later feminist.
Lately Taika W linked to video of Killer Mike's advice to blacks to use theuir anger constructively
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/entertainment/2020/06/taika-waititi-brutally-criticised-for-policing-black-people-s-anger-as-riots-continue-across-us.html
and TW rightly got told told to F off with his unwanted "listen to this eloquent black man" comments.
So you say.
In fact he described Killer Mike’s comment as eloquent. I am sure he has described a womens expression of a viewpoint as eloquent on occasion as well. Or a fellow Maori/Polynesian. Has he been attacked for that?
It's a nonsense charge, and note since Killer Mikes comment there was less violence – looting and so on and progress is now being made. So who was right?
It's a nonsense charge, unless you're black and find "eloquent male and/or female" offensive, coz it implies black people are not eloquent, it's a historical thing, but hey, I got my view, you got yours, KM has his and a few 1000 pissed off black Americans got theirs… yet the protests did bring change?
It's become a political issue rather than activist only one. You've got Congress divided between Dem (House) and Rep Senate positions on nationwide police reform, so its now an election issue (what happened to Engel in New York). And at city and state level regulatory changes on police practice.
When the right is prevented from portraying it as some black violence threat they lose their power to control the narrative.
After and because aren't synonymous.
"a standing cock knows no conscience" – probably the the same for a turgid cunt.
https://www.theanswerbank.co.uk/Phrases-and-Sayings/Quotes/Question596252.html
I'm here because cock met cunt and grateful for it. How much power did she have over herself – let alone he over himself.
without looking any further than your comment, I'd guess it's contextual to that particular politician eg she *is appropriating a well known black woman's politics for her own political ends and she's not known for being an ally to black people or there is some history there. I take those situations not to be that white people can never quote black people, but that black people are pulling white people up on it when they do it inappropriately and this is very visible at this time. When white people actually get on with the business of changing institutional racism, things will change.
I also think that there are serious issues with the potent mix of social media, call out culture, the neoliberalisation of social justice issues, and that some shit is getting out of hand. How to tell which is the out of hand stuff and which is the useful stuff is not always that easy.
Btw, 'woke' has a different meaning for black communities in the US than it does here. I can't tell which you were meaning.
Gosh & golly, you're right! Oops, I said a naughty word. 😉
So looks like I was using the "generic slang" version. Life in postmodernism sure does get complicated sometimes. I get why some guys retreat to a hut in the woods…
I'd say most people in NZ use it in its more recent meaning. I try an avoid using it, (it's a word fraught with sociopolitical complexities) although this is becoming more difficult.
Agreed. The labels are loaded and not always in a predictable way.
Dennis, do you remember before the internet it was thought that the cause of collective human stupidity was the lack of access to information? Well it wasn't that.
Excellent & profound observation, RL, take a bow for that! My favourite theory is that the cocktail of additives that the capitalists put in the food to keep people compliant is the culprit. But don't tell anyone – already enough folks freaking out about other stuff… 🤐
The endless nightmare of psychopathic power-plays, guilt-trip manipulation & control-freak behaviour that naturally flow from Intersectionality. Nutty little Cult.
I was reading a few days ago a Jewish (well something written by a Jewish male) opine that if people were going to allow blacks to be arbiters of racism, why were they resistant to Jews defining and determining the antisemtism of others.
An unhealthy culture of aggressively competitive victimhood, outrage & power-seeking. Deeply divisive & destructive. For all its cynical appropriation of high-minded Left-sounding rhetoric, Intersectionality inevitably produces a cutthroat world where power is transferred & opportunists advance through character assassination & something bordering on reputational homicide. Constant denunciation & ritualized public humiliations. It's a Cult pretty much pre-programmed to eat its own … the Woke soon discover they can never be quite Woke enough.
All predicated, of course, on a crude, childlike monocausal distortion of history. Eternally evil & sinful demographics vs eternally innocent & virtuous ones. Almost guaranteed to produce Social Injustice on a massive massive scale.
Are there any just ‘social equally causes‘ that can be safely pursued, or are they all "a crude, childlike monocausal distortion of history", equally deserving of derision?
IMHO the NZ anti-apartheid and anti-nuclear protests were an expression of support for worthwhile causes (what the heck, I’m going to lump in BLM, and be damned), although some have characterised them as 'virtue signalling'. Fortunately it's difficult to control what people consider to be worthwhile/worthless causes, at least in NZ – vive la différence.
https://nzhistory.govt.nz/keyword/protest
In 1970, I marched behind HART's banners in my first protest. Hated it but knew I had to. Antinuclear most of my life. Have expressed moral judgments since the early '70s too. Seems to me the difference is stylistic.
In the old days people in minority groups had a focus on articulating common ground. First within the group, then to the people at large. That involves rapport, an effort at understanding others, etc. Nowadays groups focus on intergroup competition, make no effort to establish rapport, and the value of identifying common ground never seems to occur to them.
"Nowadays groups focus on intergroup competition, make no effort to establish rapport, and the value of identifying common ground never seems to occur to them."
You could be right Dennis (sigh), but it's difficult for me to accept such broad generalisations. I believe that (even) nowadays some groups (still) embrace intergroup cooperation, make an effort to establish rapport, and try to identify common ground.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Good_old_days
No, I agree your scepticism is sensible. Hindsight is misleading, inherently, due to our subjective bias. I'm not saying I'm correct in what I wrote, it's just how it seems to me. 🙂
The great Civil Rights Movements of the recent past (some of which I participated in locally) were explicitly liberal projects, grounded in a universal concept of human rights & mobilising core moral intuitions of fairness and reciprocity … in other words a noble universal liberal ethos recognising shared humanity & individual worth that emerged out of Renaissance Humanism, before further refinement during the Enlightenment … Contemporary Identity Politics has certainly attempted to trade on the good name of previous civil rights projects but it's a radically different beast … both ethically & philosophically … As dangerous, divisive & destructive as fuck.
"As dangerous, divisive & destructive as fuck" to who/what?
Are any contemporary civil rights causes just, and how is that decided?
So I had to read the wiki for it – turns out to be a worthy notion. Problematic in usage then. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intersectionality
SPC Comment/quote above i think is the secret to all this for everyone…"I do not wish them [women] to have power over men; but over themselves."….all else becomes moot when this succeeds for men and women.
I thought so too. Does indeed seem to be the key point. Liberation was a powerful ethos, which is why feminism emerged from Women's Lib. Autonomy is the more general notion (applying to nations as well).
A bit like males are not allowed an opinion on abortion…
Of course, males can have an 'opinion on abortion'.
Are you saying that because some males opinions are criticised or challenged, that you feel that should not be allowed?
And you conveniently ignore the fact that the legalities around abortion are often designed, voted on, and implemented by a male-majority in many countries. So, your comment is both a bit whinging and failing to comprehend the real-life situation we have in the world today.
I would propose that anyone – male or female – who wishes to put forward their opinion on such a divisive and emotive issue as abortion, would need to have the ability to listen much more than the ability to talk.
However, females, in this situation have lived experiences that gives them much more to talk about, so the balance of listening better and for longer, falls on males. There is no avoidance of that reality, either.
Yep, I did leave out 'dissenting' from the sentence.
Often when the discussion about abortion gets going around these parts, more than once, a male antagonist is told to butt out.
I don't disagree with what you have said above, the lawmakers etc being male.
" Yep, I did leave out 'dissenting' from the sentence. "
No, you didn't.
You assumed that dissenting means in opposition to female opinions. Females – like males – encompass a wide range of views.
Your late addition of 'dissenting' emphasises your underlying presumption – males vs females. Telling.
" Often when the discussion about abortion gets going around these parts, more than once, a male antagonist is told to butt out. "
Often, I notice that a person who continually avoids consideration of another person's viewpoint or experience, and doesn't engage honestly or with the intention of learning or gaining insight, sometimes find that the patience of the person with whom they are engaging often runs out.
This is normal. Once again, nothing to do with gender, everything to do with communication skills.
" I don't disagree with what you have said above, the lawmakers etc being male."
Of course not. Hard to disagree with reality.
But interesting that you don't admit that it has some context in this discussion you initiated.
Yes, I did leave out dissenting from the first utterance.
I can't see much point in carrying on as you claim to know what I think and what I mean.
No, I claim to have good reading comprehension. Try it, it might lead somewhere.
"I can't see much point in carrying on as you claim to know what I think and what I mean. "
Yes, because I’m reading what you are writing, not reading your mind. How does it feel? (And once, again no comment on the content of my comment, just on the supposed misunderstanding)
Has my 'dissenting' voice caused this heed to disengage?
Interesting.
This bit Molly….![heart heart](https://cdn.ckeditor.com/4.11.3/full-all/plugins/smiley/images/heart.png)
A thousand times yes![yes yes](https://cdn.ckeditor.com/4.11.3/full-all/plugins/smiley/images/thumbs_up.png)
If a person is against abortion, the solution is simple, don't have one. 🙂 Problem solved.
Nice one Cinny and Molly, of course us men are allowed to opine, jeez I've never yet met a man who doesn't have a view on everything. "Not allowed", ffs.
While I didn't make it clear enough (too early, rushed), I meant in 'woke circles', a dissenting male opinion often isn't tolerated.
Going to work this morning I figured I had stood on my own landmine.
I still don't know what Woke is, or care, but male opinions are not threatened, we often have the loudest most abrasive voices, "zip it sweetie" has never been aimed at men.
Short version, a new term for PC (especially when on social media) and often accused of seeking to deplatform others not woke.
Gsays 🙂 🙂 🙂
I wouldn't say that, but I would say such opinions would be challenged rather than not tolerated.
The whole 'woke left' thing has been cracking me up since it first came on the lingo scene, the reason being is that tories think it's a put down. However, I'd much rather be a woke lefty than a sleepy righty 🙂
What about half awoke Sleepy Joe? Right wing for a left winger but too left wing for the GOP.
Probably right there, SPC.
There are plenty of issues where my opinion has moved.
Rather that than being certain all the time.
Too true SPC. Deepest sympathies to the USA, what a choice, poor buggers.
Hugs Gsays 🙂 you are awesome my friend![yes yes](https://cdn.ckeditor.com/4.11.3/full-all/plugins/smiley/images/thumbs_up.png)
Chur, Cinny.
I figure I have dug deep enough with my shovel now, any more commenting I will have to get a digger out.
gsays, have a good day and don't fret the small stuff. I find myself being sexist at times when dealing with things designed by men for that mythical other lol
Thanks Patricia.
The notion was well formed in my head, then clumsily executed.
And while it wasn't a contest, explaining is losing.
it's not that men can't have an opinion on abortion (anyone can have an opinion about anything). It's that they shouldn't get to have a say on what women do with their own bodies. So if a man comes into a conversation with women about abortion and thinks that his voice holds as much place as women's, that's probably going to cause some problems. Often it's about how something is said, but also after decades of trying to get change on this issue, many women are just fed up with the reckons.
It's all been covered long ago.
Mary Wollstonecraft on the rights of women.
men on the other hand…
So if a man comes into a conversation with women about abortion and thinks that his voice holds as much place as women's, that's probably going to cause some problems…
The man can always claim to identify as being a woman then she can opine on an equal footing. Problem solved.
Strange times we live in.
I was using the term 'woman' in its biologically female sense 🙂
Don't go there Weka…also a mine field in these days of our lives
But in the game of intersectional thrones, is not the lesser or smaller minority the most discriminated against and therefore …
In one of the greatest ironies of recent times, Gorsuch the literalist and originalist used his take on the word sex in the 1964 Civil Rights Act to deliver an extension of civil rights to the greatest number possible. And this after Rowling herself said there was no same sex without birth sex.
However I somehow doubt that some people will give her any credit.
While we are thinking about human behaviour and control over others, can we also think about giving others the right to follow a process that enables them to die quietly when they wish it?
This would be after following a thoughtful, practical preparation set in law, at a time and in a way that is fair to their family and friends as well, when they are terminally ill, and have been diagnosed as such clearly beyond error.
The present clauses of the suggested law don't even allow that, they are much more stringent, but please can we have freedom for those who wish it, done in a way that protects them from bad methods and stress.
Who is Gorsuch, and what did they say about the word sex in the CRA?
SCOTUS, Gorsuch was a Trump appointment (the place Garland was chosen for by Obama). Their 1964 Civil Rights Act said no one could be fired on the grounds of their sex, Gorsuch along with more liberal judges decided (a few weeks back) that sex included sexuality and gender ID, thus providing homosexuals and the transgender with protection from employment discrimination.
I couldn't keep up with that tbh (US law is weird).
The problem with that is that it is a moral issue and not just women having a say on what to do with their own bodies.
Is abortion, as a matter of fact, murder as some would say?
Because if its murder then it is a whole of society issue and not just a women’s issue.
It's no more murder than contraception that prevents implantation of a fertilised egg. I don't actually care if it is killing a being or not, it's still the woman's choice because of the impact on her and the risks. Society should just trust women on this, and support them to make the best choices. Free access to contraception and abortion, a decent level of DPB, freedom from violence and coercion, free access to education, and the problem largely resolves itself.
Men wanting a say in abortion access is antithetical to that. Maybe if we lived in a non-patriarchal world it would be different, but we don't.
I agree but not everyone else does and thus it becomes a question that the whole of society, including men, needs to answer.
Pretty sure that men used to say the same thing and look where that got us.
No matter what some think people don't make the best choices just because of their gender.
No. Society has no role in answering theological questions, and "god says it's alive from sperm meeting egg" is a theological position.
Additionally, abortion is a medical decision, which lowewrs the number of people who should have any input whatsoever. Basically to patient, doctor, and medical council. And if any of the latter two have an ethical problem with a specific person having a specific procedure, they'd better have a lot more than "a self-contradictory text says it's bad".
If you take the position that society is a collective of individuals then social acceptance, ethics and morals, tolerance is the emergent result of all those individual views. This includes decisions about the practice of abortion and euthanasia, for example, and the provision of such practices, including education and training of (the) practitioners. The lines are never as sharp and the issues are never in focus as much as people would like when they advocate for or against something and formulate a narrative that not only suits and supports their advocacy but also often morphs it into a compelling absolutism. The result makes for poor debate because with challenging and controversial issues, views tend to polarise into simplistic binary positions. A by-effect is the exclusion of groups of people from the ‘debate’ because they don’t meet certain eligibility/inclusion criteria or do meet certain exclusion criteria. To me, it is a huge flag when criteria are applied to a commenter for allowing/disallowing their comments and/or judging the merit/veracity of their comments.
I wouldn't say abortion and euthenasia are in the same category.
Euthenasia consists of a single actor deciding when their existence does them more harm than good, and the repercussions on society of enabling that. There are other issues (some religious) around the debate, but small beer compared to those two.
Whereas abortion is a medical procedure, but the bulk of the political debate around it concerns the idea of what constitutes human life.
Church and state should be separate, and that involves not making theological legislation.
I wouldn't say abortion and euthenasia are in the same category.
Only if you make your categories narrow enough. But if you expand the cases to include say suicide and murder, then it's clear what we are really talking about … the sanctity of human life.
Personally I tend to err towards an absolutist position on this, because those who compromise on this usually cannot be trusted to know where to stop.
You really think the law on murder is about the sanctity of human life rather than maintaining the security of an ordered society?
I trust you to the extent that you will make the right choice for you. Can you please trust me enough to believe that I will make the right choice for me? I'm actually pleading here, although why I should need to is beyond me.
So you're claiming that running cult of death isn't a theological position?
It's not even a coherent sentence.
What is this "running cult of death"?
I meant "running *a* cult of death"… a bit of hyperbole.
Many cultures in NZ that hold life to be sacred; trying to disqualify them from entering the conversation because "theology" is the antithesis of democracy
are you saying that there should be access on demand to all abortion services? i.e. it should be completely decriminalised?
In the manner of any other medical procedure, yes. The only regulation for abortions should be the standard medical regulations around competence, informed consent, and so on.
It should be handled the same way as every other significant procedure. Especially in that it's nobody else's business.
I'm just wondering how the medical profession would manage gatekeeping if the decisions were passed to them without legal guidance. It would be nice to think it would become a health issues, but history suggests it wouldn't.
Yeah, but the law around medical care should encourage good care, not put barriers between patients and care like the old "convince two doctors you'll go crazy" abortion legislation.
The new law seems to be almost at the point of just telling doctors to do their damned job. Especially that bit about objecting doctors having to refer the patient to a doctor who will actually do their job.
I don't like the 20 week limit (seriously, as anyone ever been pregnant for almost six months and then decided to terminate for shits and giggles?), but if it's a barrier I guess women will keep the struggle going.
I wasn't thinking about the new legislation, but what would happen if the whole thing was taken off statute and how the medical profession would handle things if they weren't being given specific legal guidelines. Lots of areas of health care where doctors don't live up to good care, or where there are conflicts of interest. This isn't an argument against decriminalisation per se, just hadn't thought about this aspect before. But maybe having something in law give protection. Looking at the US and imagining if those laws weren't in place.
There might be a country in the world that always just lumped terminations in with any other procedure within basic medical regulation, and it probably worked out pretty well.
But with our baggage in NZ, just leaving it for patients to make Medical Council or HDC complaints is no good for that patient, and the Medical Council might be reluctant to censure for a period. Having the clarity in legislation overrules any conflict they might feel, in essence shortening the period of adaptation to the new structure.
And what proves that?
It's not a theological question but a philosophical one, what should be.
Sure, if you want to pretend that medical decisions have no current regulation whatsoever.
But if terminations are a medical decision only, then the framework around privacy, decision making, and informed consent is already extant and operational.
Heh. "The Trump administration delivered more than a million stimulus payments worth about $1.4 billion to dead people" reports the New York Times. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/25/us/politics/coronavirus-stimulus-dead-people.html
But will it stimulate them sufficiently to make them get up, zombie into the polling booths & vote for him? Time will tell…
I think one of the lessons to be learned about the recent surge in cases at the boarder is that repatriation flights have to be early – there is no point waiting around for an epidemic to blow-up and infect the people waiting to come home.
Miss 15 has a bad cough, decided to be a good parent and take her to the Dr's. She was given a Covid test and now we are in self isolation, waiting the results. Am 99.9% sure it's not Covid, but I guess these are the rules now and we are OK with that.
I'd be devastated if we took no notice of the rules and possibly infected or worse, killed others.
On the upside, thanks to lock down, we understand how to do quarantine and I'm set up to work from home.
We are lucky to have no known cases of community spread of coronavirus, imagine the panic during cold and flu outbreaks if that were not the case?
For Miss 15's sake, I hope that the Covid test was not too uncomfortable, as I have heard it can be. Good on you both, Cinny.
How are we going to quarantine all those yanker , brazilian and pom sarker fans who will be arriving in 2013?
“arriving in 2013?”
Using a time travel machine 😆
Don't worry about those time travellers, we've moved on from 2013. Too soon to worry about those coming in 2023 as well. Cross that bridge when we come to it.
That's the sort of ad hockery thinking that keeps us in this shitshow.
I spell it adhocery and call it faith in the future. In other words, faith that Ardern will continue as PM post-election, and replace Clark with someone who can actually do the job. https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/adhocery
I wouldn't go so far as to have faith that non-performers will be replaced by competent public servants. Everyone knows that will never happen.
You are welcome to spell adhockery any way you like and to practise your touching faith in the future but then to admit that your faith is misplaced is… curious.
Craft ethos is ancient, but likely to become evident once again as an essential strand of the trend towards a resilient sustainable economy. Here's a relevant portal: https://craftsmanship.net/about/
And from the online mag they produce:
They don't because collective ownership and management only results from collective competence. Few employees have organising skills. Even the basic requirement of consensus decision-making is too hard for ego-driven folk, too hard for self-reliant individualists, too hard for those who talk working together without walking their talk. Most employees choose this default position: "I want an employer to do it all for me". And then leftists wonder why rightists win business support by default.
What a load of bollocks.
They don't because our laws and customs are about having individual ownership and dictatorship control over a business.
Put employees into a position where they have to learn the skills necessary to run a business and, IMO, they will.
You're assuming that they have a different choice available to them which they, realistically, don't.
Well, I've been watching this space since I first learned about Mondragon during the 1970s. I expected the left to adopt the model and was puzzled when they failed. My explanation is an attempt to account for that historical failure, and why it has persisted for so long. So how many employee-generated co-ops have you noticed in Aotearoa??
Is the bunch that started at the old Cadbury factory 1? Ocho is it?
Looks like a hybrid: "Almost 3500 investors, of which 35% were local, snapped up shares in the company following its successful "Own the Factory" PledgeMe campaign in 2017." https://www.odt.co.nz/business/ocho-seriously-underperforming
Google didn’t find me anything that said employees are co-owners though. So maybe not a co-op. Also Mondragon (Semco too) use employee participation in management decisions.
I wasn't. The Left, after all, are still capitalists.
Several thousand.
Of course, they're still very much in the capitalist mindset due to our laws that force ownership.
There is, of course, more than one explanation. Off the top of my head there's also:
Just labelling people as lazy is both pathetic and condescending.
I didn't (label them lazy). And that page you linked too does not specify the number of co-ops you claim.
My point was the ongoing failure of the left to adopt the model. I've never seen or heard of any leftist group or organisation in Aotearoa doing so. And I wonder how many other leftists agree with your statement about them: "The Left, after all, are still capitalists." I therefore await the appearance of written declarations from the other commentators agreeing with your view! 🙄
It's a point I agree with and would love to see further support for cooperatives.
Mostly what I'd like to see is the elimination of ownership of cooperatives. IMO, a cooperative should be a legal entity that has no ownership and is controlled by all who work there.
And Fonterra is more accurately called a cartel.
So, you're waiting for them to say that they're all communists?
For DF's edification, I agree with DTB. DF asked for it.
Senior government employee plants hidden camera in gym changing room capturing nearly 40,000 images.
Pleads guilty to a representative charge and walks Scot free with permanent name suppression.
And a promotion…gained after the charges were laid and with the knowledge of his Boss.
Our government.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=1234295
Clearly we have no option other than to suspect all male government employees as possible perverts.
When one talks of privilege in society, institutional racism, sexism etc and how it manifests itself. Well there are those charged and convicted and those not. And why.
PS your link may now be out of use.
PS your link may now be out of use.
Funny that.
About on a par with Grainne Moss' CV.
https://www.newsroom.co.nz/1248845/get-your-handbag-its-not-going-to-be-pleasant
I'm loving this open and transparent shit.
Some seriously good journalism there.
Those of us with an interest in matters health and disability (including care facilities and how complaints are handled by the HDC) wondered at the time how on earth Moss got arguably the most scrutinized top government job.
And gets to bring four of her BUPA employees with her.
Thanks for that link Rosemary @ 8.1.1. Interesting story, the basis of which was repeated in other Public Service entities following the neoliberal changes in the 1980s.
I went through a similar experience only in my case it was a male boss – an American – who burst on to the scene in the late 1980s. Suffice to say it was in the middle of the US/NZ standoff over the anti-nuclear legislation passed in 1986 and there was a link to that event within the govt. agency I worked for. He abruptly left his position late in 1992 and was never seen again. The Public Service entity in question went to considerable lengths to cover up the circumstances of his departure.
Transparency was not the name of the game for 30 plus years and it will take a long time to clean out the Public Service and return it to something akin to what it used to be.
+1 @ Anne.
We both know that weird shit happened in the PS (Yes Minister type crap since Adam was a boy), however something fairly radical changed with the reforms of the 80s and it seems that even with Chippie's desire for reform, nothing substantial seems to be happening, and even his proposals seems pretty lame.
I'll be party voting Green this election after a lifetime of supporting Labour, and despite my admiration for JA. (As will a good percentage of family members) The main reason is to do with the state of our neo-liberal PS, the lack of ethics and accountability, the fact that in the senior ranks, they've lost sight of the fact that they're 'servants' rather than leaders of little (sometimes very large) feifdoms, and any sort of accountability seems to be a 'nice to have'.
The amount and seriousness of the number of fuckups that are now apparent in many Ministries and Depts now seem to be tolerated as a matter of 'the cost of doing business'. (Bizzniss being the operative word)
My reply to @ Weka on the Daily Review (23/6/20) PARTIALLY sums it up at 6.2, but there's a lot of other stuff. And even WITHIN the current structure, there are/have been mechanisms where people could have been called to account.
The ONLY thing that might change my intention to party vote Green might be something like the old 'pledge card' – controversial as it was, but the promises substantially kept, and I doubt that's going to happen.
The NEWSROOM article came as absolutely no surprise, but if we think all that kind of shit is limited to OT, I can get you a nice price on the Auckland Harbour Bridge.
Well it's not just the PS, but other stuff like the snails' pace in doing something/ANYTHING about the state of PS broadcasting and media – including preserving plurality of voice and the independents. There are ekshully one or two simple solutions (in that space going forward).
Oh, and as for Grainne Moss: here's my impressive CV. I tick all the boxes. And just by the way – did I tell you I'm compassionate?
Why no you didn't!
Hark! panel. I think we may just have the perfect specimen for heading up a new improved CYFS. I think that about does it team. Why don't we off down to Astoria? We can discuss the next steps there. Job well done 'team'
It read like a re-write of my own experiences and what I have witnessed.
These narcissistic, psychopathic individuals who manage to ingratiate themselves with their superiors are far more prevalent in society than most people know. They are clever at passing themselves off as competent, trustworthy people, and can fool even the most experienced management in both the public and private sectors. They inevitably cause a great deal of damage not only to their victims but also the entities who employed them.
They are rarely called to account and this can be due to the fact they compromise their superiors in some way so end up being allowed to get away with it. Very upsetting for the victims who have had their lives and/or their careers destroyed.
I read a Canadian article years ago and the author noted they are most prevalent in organisations who have a degree of control over the lives of people. He cited the military, police, public services such as health and education as prime places where to find them.
Ae!
As I read you and follow your comments here at TS, I suspect you've been through employment courts????
If so, I sincerely hope you NEVER ever agreed to any confidentiality agreement. That's the usual trip. Even Mr Hager fell for it, but another trick is to try and wear you down financially.
Anyway – nanna nap time. but Kia Kaha – I just see them all as rather pathetic these days, and they'll eventually run out of places to go and rocks to hide under
No. There were no employment courts that I knew of back in the 80s and early 90s. The PSA was all there was, but they were still picking themselves up off the floor after 9 years of Muldoon bashing and were very weak.
Link now working….
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12342956
Read it while you can!
A high level government manager with porn "obsession" who planted a "spy" camera in the bathroom of an Auckland gym, capturing almost 40,000 images of people in various states of undress, has escaped conviction and been granted permanent name suppression.
The secrecy around the case was driven in part by the man getting a promotion just before the Covid-19 lockdown and fear that his job and workplace would be negatively affected if his name and details of his offending went public.
The person who found the camera and alerted police is "disgusted" that he has gotten off "completely scot-free" and believed the man should be outed for his "gross crimes".
The man was a manager within a government agency when the offending occurred.
He remains working for that agency but is now is a more senior role – a promotion that came after he disclosed his offending.
Suppression orders prevent the Herald from publishing any further details about his occupation, role or workplace.
What the fuckery !!!???
What the fuckery !!!???
Or as I politely (for me) put it…'What the fucking fuck?!?'
Sincerely hope many will read the entire article…I'm rattled by this…and I don't rattle easily.
If I were a man, working in a government department in a senior role, with a recent promotion on my record…. I would be demanding that this decision be strongly appealed.
Or….risk prosecution and out this sex offender.
So the agency that he works at still has no idea of his offending? So they cannot know despite him maybe breaching his employment contract?
Are the crown prosecutors going to appeal this? or are they part of it. I find it pretty disturbing all around. I'd have thought that having a high powered job should be more reason for accountability not less.
He was promoted after informing his boss he was facing a court case.
Presumably if the matter is kept private it does not impact on the workplace and his position there – thus no contract issue.
Well we can see that he is desperate to keep his little snooping private but why did his boss not react to this? The boss can't unknow this if it was presented honestly to him. At a minimum he probably should have arrange for a workplace sweep for bugs and hidden camera's.
Well, I suppose that's the question isn't it?
Did the person honestly communicate with his boss?
That would be really interesting to know. And I imagine somebody has been finding this out today.
Are the crown prosecutors going to appeal this? or are they part of it.
Brings the whole system into question, doesn't it?
Idiot me thought perhaps that a guilty plea for such an offense was grounds for instant dismissal. In a government department.
" Idiot me thought perhaps that a guilty plea for such an offense was grounds for instant dismissal. In a government department. "
Me, also.
Be good to see some moves to ensure that if not, this will be the case.
Okay anyone know which agencies have a senior presence in Auckland?
Three monkey stuff. If this person is outed, named and dismissed, it presumably becomes a stain on the reputation of the manager in charge, the HR people being used, and the whole cosy fuckery of private business interests doing the government's work for them.
It also stains the whole neolib system that is embedded, like a stake driven into our hearts though not those of the actually evil people who knowingly run this corrupt system in this world nefarious financial heist.
…the manager in charge,
From the article describing his rise through the ranks of this government department, it seems very likely he is the manager.
…like a stake driven into our hearts…
Very much so.
If he's the manager then where is the state services commission. Although I imagine the yelling match at upper levels has already started. The court stuff can't be accessed but I imagine the employment disclosure can be.
I'd have thought that the appropriate course would be to put on gardening leave pending the court case and an employee hearing. How does this advance the health welfare and safety of the rest of the staff? And do we know which Gym it was? Are people going to be advised that their images are out there. Are they female images only?
One might presume the behaviour is male and he only had access to the male changing rooms (given the risk of being found in the female ones while setting it all up makes that quite unlikely).
Got it one.
Maybe you recall the guy who thought it OK to refer to people as "SCUM" on social media and had to be 'managed out' of the place.
To suggest other people who worked with him didn't know what he was like, and therefore said nothing stretches credibility.
And the way the 'team' he was a part of behaved sometimes, was more suited to a Julie Christie reality TV show. I recall talking to one of those 'old school' cops (not sure if he was retired) who was telling me how embarrassed he felt at the way some of them behaved.
You have to wonder why the SSC didn't consider that, OR wonder why there is/was a huge staff turnover in places, OR delve deeper into a few other things. As far as I know, many of the people who should have been moved on are still in the place because the ministers have "complete faith in their officials". They seem to be reluctant to tell the SSC to clean up his act
I gather that the photos were only of those over 16, as would it not rachit the seriousness of the act up should and if these be of minors ? The actions imo are more serious that what our legal systems appears to view them.
It makes you really wonder & why some in an equal society are more equal than others 🤬 and it was not so long ago that there was a similar act at our USA consul ?
This pathetic prick, clearly not as well connected, gets named and shamed and his photo in the media. To the distress of his victims and the cops he did not get the jail sentence these crimes warrant.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/121893572/victims-cry-foul-after-tetraplegic-man-who-filmed-indecent-images-of-carers-avoids-prison-sentence
Yep – he looked under punished – but he should from now on always have a male carer. At the first sign of any issues this should be what the outsourced provider does.
Will this fade out of sight under the creeping overwhelming hegemony of surveillance that is being rolled out on us? Will it be commonplace soon and hardly worth a yawn? This is the sort of thing that the anti5G people are concerned about when the streets will have little boosters in every second tree with the sparrows, on each lampost, giving perfect coverage, everything will be connected to the large system.
So why not pics of shapely women or men over 16 years, what is there to be ashamed about etc.? What loss of our human dignity and freedom are we suffering? Empty minds and mouths will question.
Consent is the issue in play.
I'm saying that it will become almost normalised. Consent will be assumed if you enter these premises. Complaining about privacy will seem quaint. We are already having problems abiyt respect for citizens in the police practice of setting a road search outside a meeting about euthanasia, getting people's details, then instigating search and remove items they had in the house which were illegal. Similar to a search on gang headquarters.
Consent is a want to have.
Prison wouldn't really be much of a deprivation. That's pretty much on a par with digging up Oliver Cromwell to execute him.
Seriously Gabby? My man is also a tetraplegic and would certainly not have the hand function to place such a device with such accuracy. From his wheelchair to boot. Unless he has a complicit mate who did the work.
My man would find prison a massive deprivation. Most tetraplegics, despite what folks not in the know might think, actually have lives outside of the home. Not imprisoned at all.
And all of the tetraplegics I know would be mightily pissed this pathetic prick got off so lightly after treating his carers with such contempt. Arsehole. And a paedophile to boot. Yuck. Open prison. And as for playing the pathetic lonely cripple card….
(Not really getting at you Gabby, personal like… the Judge (who has a rep for OTT sentences btw…https://www.nzherald.co.nz/northern-advocate/news/article.cfm?c_id=1503450&objectid=11491031…) has also obviously not met any real life tetras, so knows no different.)
Sort of agree, Rosemary, but I think Prison is such a negative solution that helps nobody. This knob should have been sentenced to permanent (ie, LIFE!) Community Service with strict supervision for many, many years. That might give a positive effect. Prison never does.
I guess the judiciary use the same sex workers as the senior public servants they went to school with. Notthattheresanythingillegalwiththat.
Lotsa work goes into a good coincidence.
https://twitter.com/MartySmithESPN/status/1276194402302640129
Nascar officials on Thursday released a photo of the rope found in the garage stall of Bubba Wallace that prompted an FBI probe that determined it had been there since last October. Photograph: NASCAR/Reuters
Declaring “the noose was real”, Nascar officials on Thursday released a photo of the rope found in the garage stall of black driver Bubba Wallace that prompted a federal investigation that determined it had been there since last October.
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2020/jun/25/nascar-noose-photo-talladega-bubba-wallace
Gorman the public health academic of Auckland University who reckons there is risk of public transmission from people after their 2 week quarantine (if they are not tested) – agreeing with Radio Mike and Todd (despite there being none of it during Level 2 when there was no testing) argued for us to leave Level 3 because the economic cost was too high from trying to stamp out community transmission.
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2020/05/coronavirus-covid-19-s-not-going-away-so-no-point-in-staying-at-alert-level-3-expert.html
No way is Gormless missing his international conference travel allowance.
Have I missed something.
The Nats and their press lackys have cooked up a storm over those released from quarantine without testing.
Have they been advising the populace to be cautious by moving back voluntarily to a "Level 2" approach to the disease? Would seem the prudent thing I would have thought.
They've been playing the odds. Since testing was enforced, we've picked up 1-3 a day from isolated travelers. All things being equal, one or more cases getting through among those who were not tested is likely. Should a cluster providentially turn up, the Gnats plan to lose their shit so epicly that Bridges' fulminations will be utterly eclipsed.
Their plan is outrage driven reelection – public health outcomes have never been a serious priority for them.
Not sure about likely. More people went through the 2 weeks without testing before June 9 while we were at level 2 and no community spread.
Muller's belief that community transmission was likely can be seen as a scare campaign to complement the targeting of the Health Minister and ultimately the government over performance.
He's rolled the dice out of desperation, but his longer term credibility is likely to be undermined.
Muller needs a hail Mary – a new community bubble is probably his best chance. If one gets through now however, in an environment including numerous experienced contact tracers and a health system on alert, there's still a respectable chance of containment. I think we should be ready for an attempt to parley half a dozen cases into "the end of the frickken world".
David Seymour has been claiming he was advocating for tighter borders back in January and February.
Has anyone fact checked this? All I can find is a story on Feb 26 about him asking for the PM to return from Fiji to deal with the coronavirus matter. She went from Fiji to Oz to talk to Morrison and then both nations closed their border to those from China.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?objectid=12341935&&ref=topbox
From the dump of government papers. A note about how the community feels about the various levels. Looks like the media were well out of step with what the community actually felt. Hence should we be very doubtful about most of what the media says? Because they have a predetermined narrative of their own and just look for anecdotes to support it?
There seems to be little doubt that seeing our government in action first hand rather than through the media filter has greatly increased public respect for it. How can we maintain this?
“Some are frustrated by the limitations on their freedom and inability to see their loved ones. Media stories published about people unable to visit loved ones as they are dying are driving negative sentiment.
“However, a significant proportion of the conversation on social media is in support of maintaining safety throughout the levels.”
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/121952064/coronavirus-documents-unveiled-government-considered-making-returning-kiwis-pay-if-they-had-been-gone-a-long-time
Thank god for Gordon Campbell, just a pity he's not more widely published
https://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL2006/S00192/on-the-media-collusion-with-nationals-attack-lines.htm
I would so love these journalists with big audiences to be themselves interviewed rigorously on why they have chosen to cover certain stories in a less than honest manner
Would make great television I reckon
If anyone would do so. I haven't done any particular analysis yet but when did the media journalists become the story. I happened to see seven sharp last night and there was Hillary and Jeremy interviewing their own parliamentary correspondent?
What? Given the level of the questions asked in the press conferences I'd have though that just about anybody else's opinion would have been better than that. Why not interview Gordon Campbell if you have to have a journalist.
And when it comes to the stories headed " calls for resignation" – who are these calls coming from- the journalists trying to be part of the story or the opposition over a particuar issue?
I had hoped stuff would be better away from corporate ownership.
“If anyone would do so ”
Id like to do so
Members of the public, academics , media students could have the oppurtunity to ask questions of particular journalists and how they presented particular stories
Could be educational
A great review of the Media crookedness. Well done Gordon Campbell. Wouldn't be so bad if they treated the Nats with the same "rigour." For example since the Muller Brigade keeps on talking about the Government's "lack of a plan" but the Media fail to question what their plan is to save "Small Business."
Or for that matter to highlight the fact that unlike any other country we have so far no recent Community infections. Instead the media just repeat the Opposition's litany of complaints.
Great article, and that has puzzled me, in The last month the UK had a 1000 people die a day, now that is a freakin disaster, a couple near misses than turn out to be fizzers are barely worth a mention. On the Late Show they were showing clips from the rugby game last week, utterly incredulous and envious, "People watching sports without fear".
100% agree.
I was so glad to see that piece. I really was thinking I was going a bit nutty or coming down with a bad case of confirmation bias. We can only hope that articles like this will at least pique the attention of others to take note.
And today's sad little bunch of self focused people. Forget quarantine – much more important to let airlines fly – never mind the health costs to taxpayers and the tremendous economic damage to NZ of rampant covid.
Board of Airline Representatives are an industry body funded one assumes by it's members who are with a couple of exceptions major airlines based offshore.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/121940759/coronavirus-air-transport-group-calls-for-end-to-quarantine-measures
Zombie economics, nations without community spread getting in the way of their business model – international spread until there is herd immunity.
At the macro level of course business as usual while finite resources are depleted and the burning of carbon impacts on the global habitat for life.
I see the Taxpayers Union has launched a petition calling for the Minister of Helath to be sacked.
Given this has nothing to do with use of taxpayers money – it's becoming blatantly obvious what sort of political action group this really is. And they claimed government money to subsidise their wages.
Another sad little bunch of self focused people. Wonder if they have paid back the wage claim or been investigated.
Ha Ha Ha
You say your comment on a blog site. Own goal Much
Er unlike the taxpayers union or Board of airline reps I do not have my hand in the government pocket for funds nor am I wanting favours that would improve profits at the expense of others.
But hey it's great that you manage the odd little one liner here and there. looking forwards to some long form contributions from you. Or would you be promoting your own self interest a little much?
NZ has another day of no Covid-19 cases in the community.
Todd Muller will be disappointed, again.
NZ has another day of no Covid-19 cases in the community.
Tod Mudler will be disappointed, again.
The reality of that statement is mind boggling, a person who wants to be the leader of 5 million uses scare tactics during a global pandemic to woo voters towards him, even worse, the guys a christian conservative.
Have the right completely lost their moral compass?
And the ones without tests will be 24/31 days since being isolated
Another Reinforcing fact.
Maybe, but that would mean he'd have to be able to concentrate on two things at the same time which is unlikely. Here's a photo for a caption competition:
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/121956931/national-party-reveals-hoardings-for-september-election
The Hoardings will become the the interest of the Advertising Standards Authority
So the final update on my clusterfuck of getting tested due to leaving managed isolation without being tested. This morning I called and made an appointment to go get my testing done at 12:40pm. They were very specific that it was urgent so I was there on time and ready to be swabbed. Once I pulled in and put a mask on they approached my drivers side window and asked how long I had been sick for. I said I wasn't sick so they asked why I was even there. I told them I had gotten out of isolation without being tested. So they asked if the Ministry of Health told me to come in. I said "No one has called me so I'm just doing this to be on the safe side".
"How long ago were you released"?
I told them "10th June"
They said I didn't even need to be there. But whatever, I got it done.
A bit of an omni-shambles. Not sure if there is any central control at all but nonetheless testing complete.
What was the reason you didn't demand a test before you left managed isolation?
There was never any mentioning of a test and no one else was tested while I was there (I got to know some of the other people who came in with me). I just followed all the advice from the nursing team and did what I was told
You are alive, Covid free and in the safest place in the world and have had 2 weeks of free food and accommodation at a cost of $4000 that the rest of us, most on reduced wages, have paid for, and you are still fucking complaining.
If you ever wanted a definition of an entitled arsehole then you are the perfect example. Fuck you.
You should have stayed in Australia preferably Victoria.
Adrian, that is way out of line.
I have no problem with and wholly support the free provision of quarantine and isolation for the health of returning NZers but I have had a gutsful of the tiny minority's entitled and whining behaviour.
He was yesterday explaining that he had not been called for testing (they were looking to test those who had left the managed isolation since June 9 without being tested, and had to make his own arrangments to be tested). He was actually helping them out, rather than whining.
I'm entitled by going out of my way to make sure I am not an asymptomatic carrier…again, an interesting take on things
What? After 14 Days in isolation and zero symptoms you consider you may have the virus and would like to be checked to make sure, is that your beef?
The 14 Day Isolation period is the most important part of the process, if you were tested every day for seven consecutive days in row there would be no guarantee you don't have the virus, but because you were in Isolation for the full 14 days, without any symptoms during that period, you're deemed to be virus free.
This was about someone making the effort to assist the government's own exercise in testing all those who left managed isolation without a test since June 9, given he had not been contacted.
I said below because of this my flatmate wasn't allowed into his office because I left isolation without being tested and without being contacted by the MoH – that was part of the reason
Wow
Simply amazing.
Yes, your behaviour is, along with all the other whiners. The vast majority of the country is sick of it.
You seem too angry to grasp a really basic difference here. Calm down and consider it, please.
People in isolation complaining about their food are only thinking about what affects them.
People complaining about not being tested are not. That affects all of us.
Two very different issues. Not all "whiners".
Observer, the first example of this was back in February when a symptom-free woman returning from a U.S holiday demanded a test at the border with a "don't you know who I am " attitude and promptly went to the media, and BTW she wasn’t actually anybody anyone knew outside her own echo chamber. It was in the Herald , I think. No surprises there.
Selway said earlier that he too was of to the media. People who don't know how lucky they are, are what piss me off when the rest of us have done the hard work over 3 months without complaining.
And for your and Selways information the tests are still only 65% accurate. That's why physically diagnosed cases are still running at 35%+ above tested ones. So he is complaining that he didn't get a grossly inferior product when the ONLY true test is 14 days symptom free in isolation/quarantine which he had completed.
If you read the last three days of me posting about this I haven't complained once. All I have done is told my story of isolation and having to get myself tested after MoH dropped the ball.
Read that again: I haven't complained once.
I've done all the right things and told my story here. That's fucking it. So fuck off buddy
Oh and –
‘So he is complaining that he didn’t get a grossly inferior product when the ONLY true test is 14 days symptom free in isolation/quarantine which he had completed.”
*cough* asymptomatic transfer *cough*
*cough* 14 days mingling in a hotel with people at different levels of isolation *cough*
You should see someone about that *cough*.
So it's my fault MoH didn't test 100's of people arriving at the border? And my behaviour in going to get myself tested of my own volition so I make sure I don't spread it to others in the community is that of an entitled arsehole?
Interesting take
There was no reason to test anybody at the border as your and everybody elses temperature was remotely taken at the border and far more information was known about you before you even got to the exit.
If you actually had read anything about the whys and wherefores of border testing you would realise that testing at the border can easily lead to dangerous assumptions of being infection free. If people have been in self isolation yet need to travel on crowded public transport and transit through terminals then a time period is essential for proper detection of only 65% of actual cases. The only fail safe test is 14 days symptom free even for asymptomatic cases.
You sound wilfully ignorant of the science around the Virus but a virulent Entitlement Syndrome victim.
Mmmm, yeah.
Jackass.
This was about someone making the effort to assist the government's own exercise in testing all those who left managed isolation without a test since June 9, given he had not been contacted.
Your opine is better targeted with the Muller scare campaign belief in community transmission because of lack of the testing, and media amplification
Munter takes the absence of evidence as proof of course.
Don't worry about Adrian.
Welcome home to the best and safest little country in the world.
Do the whole Dave Dobbyn song every morning in your head.
Us and them.
Race, religion, gender, sexuality, political creed and birth citizen and other citizens/permanent residents/migrant workers/tourists.
And of course a new one, those resident when a pandemic starts and those returning home during one.
Thanks for sharing.
Not being judgemental as, contrary to some commenters, it's a massive failure to let people leave a 14 day isolation without an all clear test, regardless of when the dates were imposed. Common sense dictates it, surely.
Imagining myself in the same situation, I probably wouldn't have left without demanding a test (if none were given before), baring in mind a symptomatic carriers etc. Lucky for you and your recent contacts, you appear not to have it, and soon you'll have the result to prove it and peace of mind all round.
An issue with the tests though is they take 48 hours (as I was told today after having mine done) so you have a test 2 days before leaving the hotel but during those 2 days you might get exposed from someone else who just arrived while your busy checking out.
They need better planning around separating new arrivals from old arrivals
Ideally it would be a seperate bubble situation with no mingling at all, which would be harsh, but then no harsher than for all of us in level four lockdown.
Failing that, the fourteen days should be sixteen, with the last two after a test in isolation.
I agree – testing should be completed in the final two days and your not allowed out of your room until it comes back negative
Right! So who do we call? lol
coff busters?
Ba dum tish
Yeah the risk is week one people meeting week two people (especially after the day 12 test).
For mine the week one people should be kept in their rooms and thus kept separate from week 2 people.
Not really.
The day 12 test should be a formality. Mostly just a backstop to confirm the isolation period. Meaning you'd expect next-to-fuckall positive results. If it comes back positive, they're out for a few hours. Sure, the contacts have to be tracked down, but no big harm.
As opposed to three days of contacts if they get tested on departure, or maybe missing an exposure if they are tested on day 10 and they get it on day 13 because the iso is too lax.
The fact is that the proof is in the pudding, and this pudding has left no covid in the community (even if Toddy Mu- Mu- Muuuuuu Corona can sense it using the Force).
Fair play to your concerns, but you'll be ok. The test will hopefully put your mind at ease on that count.
There was no testing of those in managed isolation (without symptoms) until June 9. And before managed isolation people were in self isolation for 2 weeks without a test.
MOH determined that the risk of spread after 2 weeks in isolation was low.
Of course the consequences goes up a lot at Level 1, so with that move to testing is to be extra safe.
Yeah, I know, and it's still a slack way of doing it. The process was flawed, but at least it should be sorted now.
I wouldn't worry too much John after the length of time thats elapsed.Isolation is way more important than testing.
Its the numbers here that are important
Zero in ICU
Zero in hospital
Zero community transmission
Zero additional deaths
All new cases in managed facilities
Just be careful , wash your hands etc , if you continue to be worried that theres been a shambolic approach .
Despite the media beatup its the stats that do the talking
They brought in tests from June 9 for those on day 3 and day 12.
June 9th was his 13th day and June 10 was his 14th day.
The lack of testing is all really about those who arrived before June 9th.
No not quite – I had to stay an extra night so technically the 9th was my 14th day but I had trouble getting transport back to Wellington so they kept me another night because they didn't want me crashing at a friends in Auckland then heading to Wellington because they wanted to know where I was going next was where I would be staying for the next 14 days
That might be why you were not on a list for being called in for testing – seen as one at the June 9 cusp.
I don't know – everyone I have spoken to on the phone and at the testing station seemed to think I had been called already by the MoH but nope. They have all my details so the ball was dropped somewhere. S'all good though – I picked the ball up 🙂
Glad you are all right.
But it shows the basic difference between health care and health politics. Obviously you should have been tested in isolation, and that's a failing. But 16 days after isolation, and with no symptoms – a doctor would say you don't need a test.
Unfortunately test numbers have now become a political measure, a stat like inflation or unemployment or whatever. Over 80,000 tests in past 2 weeks, people queuing for hours in their cars (and statistically in more danger from the road they're queuing on). Massive over-reaction.
I got tested for the sake of everyone else really. I actually saw my doctor yesterday and he said not to bother but thought I would do the right thing. Which, according to Adrian, makes me an entitled asshole.
EDIT: Oh yeah – my flatmates work said he couldn’t come back to the office unless I was tested so I did it for him too
my clusterfuck….
an omni-shambles….
Not sure if there is any central control….
And despite all this we have no community transmission, only imported cases being caught at the border, level one controls that permit an almost normal social and economic life, and are probably the safest place in the world. Oh, perhaps not, the Antipodes Islands will be safer.
So many countries would give everything for a clusterfuck, an omnishambles, or the lack of central control you describe.
Thanks from me- doing the right thing is never wrong
Better "Safe than sorry" But you could have done this quietly without unjustified accusations along National's attack lines.
I don't know what Nationals attack lines even are – I am just telling you my experience. Individual results may vary
Shaw is celebrating the RMA amendment that allows environmentally-damaging projects to be refused.
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2020/06/green-party-celebrates-law-change-which-allows-environmentally-damaging-projects-to-be-stopped.html
AirNZ
Dear Greg Foran,
The problem we have is not with the aircrew it is with you. We understand that it is stressful laying over in a disease ridden state before flying back with a bunch of potentially disease ridden people and then potentially going back into the community. You then note that the reduction in flying hours had hurt the crew financially. You are supposed to be a top flight manager. You actually appear to have the vision and flight capacity of a dodo.
Which bit of the following could you not manage:
asking for crew to indicate where personal circumstances are more favourable to managing some isolation.
rostering a crew for 1-2 USA flights followed by isolation ( maybe at home) then less rigorous routes – to share the social burden.
getting some of that fashionable full hazmat gear singapore airlines have managed plus a dedicated crew toilet facility. ( even if you take a few less paying passengers)
making sure crew bear no financial penalty by topping up wages for non flying but isolation time. A deduction from your own over large salary which you are clearly not earning should make this a neutral exercise.
Lastly but not least – lockdown and associated costs have cost the NZ taxpayer around $30 billion plus so far as well as large social and emotional costs. Any penny pinching by you shows a complete lack of vision or engagement in the wider economy or welfare of the country. Can you remedy this please by making sure that salary deduction is sufficient to bring your annual income into line with the minimum wage.
Yours
This NZ taxpayer
PS Could I also recommend that you read Richard III by shakespeare. “For the want of a nail a kingdom was lost”.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12343297
Who was laying over what? Is that what is called a rest period?
The Telegraph advises about UK getting air bridges agreements with certain other countries. They must be pretty desperate over there. Of course they are getting near their summer break when they could go somewhere warm by the sea. But they have had 30 degrees lately I think in UK so why not encourage people to holiday within their bubble now that they are out of Brexit and Europe and want to make UK great somehow, by hook or by crook. Do they think they can have their cake and eat it too? Build UK up and spend somewhere else – I wonder if it is the wealthy feeling that Europe was stopping them from having everything they thought they wanted.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/06/24/exclusive-destinations-first-set-air-bridges-uk-revealed/
"Air bridges" with a series of short-haul destinations are set to be unveiled at the weekend as the Government plots a three-stage approach to revive flying.
The first tranche of bridges are expected to be with popular "low-risk" holiday destinations including France, Italy, Spain, Greece and Germany, largely to "re-fire" the Mediterranean tourist industry from July 4, according to sources.
Portugal is not expected to be included after its spike in coronavirus rates, but the bridges mean people going on holiday to the other destinations will not be required to quarantine for 14 days on their return to the UK.
Ministers hope the plan will enable families to start planning Mediterranean summer breaks to the most popular destinations this weekend….
Forgive me if already mentioned, but see the Governer General has sent the Scott Watson case back to the court of appeal.
Personally don’t know enough about it atm to make a proper comment, but will read up.
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/419934/scott-watson-s-murder-convictions-to-be-referred-to-court-of-appeal
The razor cut in the evidence bag with the female victims hair in it was a bit "Arthur Allen Thomas cartridge case" to me – plus the photograph used for identification versus Watson's appearance on the evening was very funky. The water taxi driver swearing Watson wasn't the bloke that was with the victims…well…..
Def a bit murky this one, no harm in appeal, I'm amazed he was convicted on SFA evidence but so it goes.
Here we go again! Passengers from South Korea are being isolated in a Wellington hotel so it is time for a few reporters to stir the pot: https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/121954765/coronavirus-returnees-from-korea-arrive-in-wellington-for-14day-isolation. Since there is a school across the road parents must be warned to be concerned, even though there is little chance of children being within 2 metres of anyone who is symptomatic. Parents were advised of the situation, but not days in advance as the media seems to think is necessary. Perhaps the logic of the reporters centres on wanting more time to report on the pre-emptive protest activities of the self-entitled that they attempt to stir up. Of course, any reporter worth his or her salt will make enquiries of the 'affected'. Good job Bryce Edwards, the political scientist who seems to have lost his opinion column gig at the Guardian was available and has two children at the school. The whole stir-up appears to have had the big yawn from the school principal though, judging by her comments. Best of all was the real 'grown-up', a delightful girl with an incandescent smile standing at the hotel entrance with her 'Welcome home. Be kind to everyone' sign.
Was there any comments on why they have to be housed in a 5 star hotel, when there are a shit load of empty Halls of Residence up the road at the uni?
Or does the coalition not consider things like that?
Contact them and ask them, then let us know.
Generally people employed do what they need to do, consult, make decisions and proceed on the information they have. Quite often out here in computer land we know better.
The unis have no foreign students in the halls. And are losing money like water.
The govt needs to house people in isolation.
It is not the hardest thing in the world to see an opportunity to work with each other.
But appreciate Hipkins seems to have his vendetta against them.
Wouldn't be surprised if the hotel was cheaper.
??
Yes because 200 odd dollars a night is cheaper than a week.
You know what the halls of residence would charge?
Would imagine piss all given they are currently doing nothing but still paying people.
I bothered to look
About 300 bucks a week.
https://www.wgtn.ac.nz/accommodation/halls/fees-charges
Hotel can't be that busy if there's plane loads of arrivals getting booked in, so I'd imagine occupancy levels were pretty low, with no foreign tourists to fill the vacant rooms.
Aren't you nat types supposedly wanting the government to look after the hospitality industry? So it follows the national parties concern li(n)es are, in fact, not crocodile tears but more like regular bull shit.
Good to get the insight straight from the blue donkey's arse.
Get back to me when you can justify putting them in 5 star hotels.
How many kiwi families are being supported by the wages these government funded returnees are paying, do you reckon? And not just the hotel staff, but all the support services, like laundry, food suppliers, delivery drivers, etc. And then the shops these people spend their money in etc.
You blue outrage types – Anything for a pearl clutch 🙄
😆
nononono
these are the rules:
a tory makes an assumption based on reckons of what happens when an industry is healthy (e.g. the ministry is paying full sticker price on every room, there are no students in any hall of residence);
the lefty must play along and pretend that the assumption is true, and that no government entity e.g. did anything close to a responsible assessment of available resources;
the lefty must then provide copies of the actual correspondence and receipts in order to disprove the tory's half-arsed reckons.
Apparently HoR are all higher security than a five-star hotel, and have expansive suites rather than a bed, a desk, and a closet.
FWIW, I've been in HoR (aka "residential colleges" now – they provide academic support) rooms and hotel rooms, and the closest hotel room to a HoR I've been in was a youth hostel.
Maybe we could iso people like a freaking monk for two weeks for cheaper, but then also maybe the ministry went "nice place, you're looking as 0-5% capacity for the next six months if you're lucky, wanna cut us a rate?"
You can tell he's worried by all the panic posting![yes yes](https://cdn.ckeditor.com/4.11.3/full-all/plugins/smiley/images/thumbs_up.png)
Nope.
Nice try. But doesn't justify 5 star hotels.
The assumption of someone getting five star service is fueling your outrage today? fascinating.
I'm not outraged about anything.
Just questioning the option of subsidizing massive corporate hotels when there are a lot of small time owned ones.
Or empty uni HoR
Assuming the govt isn't getting a decent discount.
And assuming the halls are empty (many aren't).
And assuming it's not a false economy to try to run an effective program of isolation if you're bussing a plane load to 20 different boutique locally-owned bed and breakfasts rather than finding a place that can take a planeload at a time.
But keep "questioning". Your financial inefficiency detector is probably about the same class as Muller's community spread detector: pessimistic and not based on anything in reality.
Do you have a link to the govt showing they are getting a discount?
lol
asking for links to disprove your half-arsed assumptions?
cf:
Fucking playbook.
Apparently, even if you're absolutely pedantic about not having a discount, you can still end up paying half price.
How about you discover the govt was actually paying exhorbitant fees before you get all mouth-foamy again.
It doesn't have to justify anything you're pretending to be bothered about, but it does provide your fake outrage some context.
No cut through here, private. Fall out.
Gotya.
Corporate welfare
It seems there aren't small minded neighbours who would rather see the hotel boarded up and the staff without jobs. Besides, are the halls of residence empty and able to be serviced appropriately for isolation? The answers appear to be 'No' and 'No'.
They probably have more security than any hotel in Wellington.
Aren't HoR communal?
You want people to actually stay in their rooms and be comfortable enough to do that, HoRs (from memory) are designed for young people who spend most of their time in class or socialising.
Half are like any hotel room and have catering.
it's total bollocks.
I've been in at least half a dozen HoR around UniOtago and a couple in wellington (work related, usually). Most are one bed, one desk, and showers/toilets down the hall (lol exaclty what you want when you're worried someone has a disease that causes the runs). Communal lounge, dining room, maybe a gym and tennis court.
And the cheapest hotel/motel I've been in that wasn't a hostel or camp ground was a room with a large bed, desk, TV, fridge, kichenette, and en suite. Prospect of some manner of bug or fungus quite high in the cheapest places though.
The bonus to a hotel beyond the basics is that they usually have commercial kitchens and conference facilities, so medics can work in the facilities and the kitchens can do the room service on a large scale.
What the real whinge seems to be about is the assumption that moh, on some of the hotels, is paying five star prices – a gripe for which there is no evidence whatsoever. Which is funny, because didn't john banks say he didn't think he was being bribed/influenced/whatever because nobody pays sticker prices for hotel stays? lol
That's what I would have thought. Some of the Ak one's have an ensuite but they still look small and designed to be used with communal spaces.
room map at the bottom of the page.
https://www.auckland.ac.nz/en/on-campus/accommodation/university-accommodation/catered-accommodation/waiparuru-hall.html
not sure why they haven't used motels though, giving people the option to cook their own food (I'd be pretty grumpy with catered food by the end of 14 days). I'm guessing hotels are easier to manage and keep an eye on large numbers of people.
Really hoping they're doing right by families with kids, and disabled people.
Now, Otago might be a bit different to some of the other unis (if you read Critic over lockdown lol) but I do know they had students resident in colleges all the way through L4 and onwards. They're only just in the midyear break atm.
For that reason I'd suspect HoR would be more likely to have some occupancy all the way through than any hotel.
That's my understanding too (Otago Uni students had the choice to stay or not. Not sure how they managed the distancing etc, but I assume there were protocols).
There were schedulled mealtimes (e.g. floor by floor) in one hall a mate works at, but dealing with freshers is like herding cats. An earnest effort was made though 🙂
The final nail in Chris's argument cofin
He's only asking questions.
Yes, but what about the real 'grown-up', a delightful girl with an incandescent smile who was standing at the hotel entrance with her 'Welcome home. Be kind to everyone' sign. She is worth a hundred ChrisT's and any other fucker that thinks NZ citizens should come home to be isolated in cardboard boxes with meals of cold gruel, along with people from the service industries who don't have useful jobs because some half-arsed fucker thinks the Government shouldn't do cheap accommodation deals in hotels.
I have previously expressed concerns about the way that Fees Free was implemented, and find myself still frustrated on this.
There was an article recently that said that the uptake for students from lower deciles was lower than expected.
A primary reason for this is that if any student had made use of any Youth Guarantee programme that runs on the NZ Qualification Framework, that adds up to more than 60 credits, they are ineligible for Fees Free.
This means that any student that has used an alternative pathway to tertiary study, will find that that pathway, delivered apathetically and worth – at most $2,500 – will not only not have provided the prerequisites for more academic study, but will have made them ineligible for Fees Free for Level 4 study in a tertiary institution.
Notably:
1. The NZQF framework is run parallel to the NZQA framework, but is regarded and delivered with a substantial amount of scorn and disregard in comparison. However, a NZQF course for over 60 credits – at Level 3 (secondary school level) – makes you ineligible. (Many attend these courses as a requirement of WINZ, which raises a whole raft of issues in terms of quality of delivery and engagement).
2. Alternative pathways through Open Polytechnic that provide literacy and numeracy credits that can be used as pre-requisites for tertiary study, used to be available for free. They are still available but if utilised also make you ineligible for the first year of study Fees Free.
Fees Free as it is – precludes many from being able to access it. Particularly those it said it aimed to assist.
A badly designed and implemented policy. It needs comprehensive review and improvement.
Not quite a broken promise, but one that failed to meet the expectations of delivery…common theme it appears.
Agreed – I'm still waiting for my beautiful new NZ flag![crying crying](https://cdn.ckeditor.com/4.11.3/full-all/plugins/smiley/images/cry_smile.png)
Just seems that absolutely no thought went into it.
Access is denied to many of those it purported to target.
Rob not making a great fist of explaining why Rodney got 'set free'. Todmunter will pronounce the dumping to be Disgraceful.
https://youtu.be/qQfetkoGrpU
Kia Ora
Newshub.
It is always sad when there are whale standings
We do need to protect our sharks and the taonga Mako shark
The Electric Truck will be awesome
Ka kite Ano.
Searing new clip from the Lincoln Project. It's hard to fathom the morality void that is Trump, but TLP is on point
https://twitter.com/ProjectLincoln/status/1277226145193381888?s=20
Kia Ora
Newshub.
That's a good way to flip the bird
That's a good move getting people coming into Aotearoa to wear PPE gear.
That's awesome the whale has made its way back to sea.
Ka kite Ano.
Kia Ora
Te Ao Maori Marama
We have to look after our Awa.
Ka kite Ano
Kia Ora
The Am Show.
I think it's a good idea slowing traffic down to 30 klm in the Auckland city centre.
That's is cool using virtual reality to help train people.
Most Researchers do good mahi.
Global warming is affecting our weather.
Did you believe that line.
What about the Phenomenon of creating it out of nothing and changing us heaps for something that cost them nothing.
Ka kite Ano.
Kia Ora
Te Ao Maori Marama.
Kiwis are over being slaved by dairy farmers.
The Waitangi tribunal findings are great.
Ka kite Ano
Kia Ora
The Am Show.
No one can find that spanner that was thrown in the works.
Plastic and alcohol free July That's great 2 products use that needs to be minimized.
Ka kite Ano.