Open mike 26/01/2013

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, January 26th, 2013 - 70 comments
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70 comments on “Open mike 26/01/2013”

  1. Shearer’s tilt at Maori seats brings swift rebuff
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10861522

    “Tariana Turia has retaliated, saying Mr Shearer was a poser and Maori people would see right through him.”

    National party finally get something right about Maori.

    • karol 1.1

      Curiously, Shearer is not reported as saying what he/Labour would do for Maori, only that Labour’s after their seats. It seems to be all a power play by Shearer. And still we don’t really know what Shearer actually stands for…?

      Meanwhile, I see Metiria Turei spoke at the gathering to celebrate the prophet’s birthday at Ratana, laying out her strongly held political values and commitments.

      And I see from the NZ Herald article on Shearer’s tilt (at windmills?) that there’s a Green Party picnic for the planet: tags for the picnic post includeAsset sales, Climate Change, Children’s Issues, Conservation, Environment, Housing, Water.

      • rosy 1.1.1

        “It seems to be all a power play by Shearer.”
        That’s what I immediately thought as well. Still, it is the MSM reporting so who knows?

        What does he stand for? at this stage it seems like personal ambition (i.e. power play). Makes him no better then Key really.

        • David H 1.1.1.1

          And that I think is the elephant in the room NO-ONE knows what he stands for. He could support little green men from Venus I wouldn’t care at least we would know.

          • muzza 1.1.1.1.1

            Would it matter if he came out and *said*, what he stood for, I mean really, only the gillible would trust a politician, with a spurious background, after the decades of lying , leading to decline!

            Taxi for Shearer!

        • geoff 1.1.1.2

          Apparently he doesn’t need to stand for anything. Cardboard cutout, smile and wave while Goff, Mallard, King and Robertson pull the strings to animate the FrankenShearer.

      • bad12 1.1.2

        LOLZ, Metiria had them spell-bound on the Marae when She described Her first visit to Ratana which resulted in Her first real kiss,( come on Met’s fess up you forgot to give the bloke a slap for His troubles and your really back there looking to make amends),

        On a more serious note Ratana now have a perfect housing policy via the Green Party’s just announced scheme where Ratana have the land and now have a real policy with which to rejuvenate housing at the Pa it’self, i am sure that in the Urawera’s Tuhoe will have reacted with interest to the Green Party’s housing policy as well…

      • Assviper 1.1.3

        Were those her “deeply held political beliefs and commitments” from the Macgillicuddy Serious Party – or from somewhere else?

    • Jenny 1.2

      “I think the Maori seats are up for grabs and we are going for broke to get them. We are in competition with the Maori Party and Mana and we are determined to win the Maori seats back.”

      David Shearer

      While I agree that Labour should try and see off the Maori Party. To lump the Mana Party in the same category exposes David Shearer’s lack of a political compass.

      Mana is undoubtedly a left party and as such is more than likely back to fully back any left legislation forwarded by a Labour/Green government. Possibly even giving such a government their vote on confidence and supply. (Even if not in a formal alliance).

      The fact of the matter is, if Mana got more than the one seat currently held by Hone Harawira, this would be one more vote to keep National away from the treasury benches.

      Can’t Shearer see that? Is he that misinformed?

      Or is Shearer so blindly sectarian that he would rather see Mana out of parliament, even at the cost of the election?

      • bad12 1.2.1

        Labour actively contesting the Maori seats that it currently does not hold could be just what Mana need particularly in Waiariki where Flavell is definitely vulnerable more to Mana’s Annette Sykes than any candidate that Labour can stand in that particular electorate,

        For all the mana that Pita Sharples now has left a blind donkey named Brucie could wrest Sharples seat off of him without raising a sweat so Labour’s Shane Jones should fit right in there as i am unreliably informed that wanking makes you blind and as far as i know Shane hasn’t raised an ounce of sweat during what has so far passed as His lifetime even when engaged in the former….

        • North 1.2.1.1

          It’s the hackneyed, appallingly arrogant “Decent People Hate Harawira” refrain which most of them have engaged to suck up to voters in the range White Trash to White Flash.

          No wonder Harawira engaged “Motherfuckers….”

    • bad12 1.3

      The NZHerald article wrongly translates the word ‘morehu’ as to mean ‘follower’, that’s not right and who would have thunk that the Herald cannot even get one simple Maori word correct,

      Morehu are the survivors, what was left of the Prophets people and lands after what Tariana Turia described as the ‘holocaust’ ensuing from European settlement…

  2. Saarbo 2

    National announce an $80 million investment in this years budget for irrigation and water storage for Dairy Farmers. This is unbelievable given the profitability of dairy farming and the desperate need for money in other areas.

    • rosy 2.1

      Have you got a link for that? It’s outrageous, but not surprising. I’m guessing it’s for Canterbury dairy farmers?

      • Saarbo 2.1.1

        http://www.national.org.nz/Article.aspx?ArticleID=40157

        National clearly are not scared to “intervene” when it is for their mates!

        • Rosie 2.1.1.1

          Hi Rosy, Hi Saarbo. Yes this is both unbelieveable and outrageous. I heard the news on RNZ yesterday about the $80 million funding for irrigation. This has been in the pipeline (absolutely no pun intended) for quite some time hasn’t it? I’m making an assumption that its for Canterbury, that region most unsuited to dairying. If they mentioned the region in the news yesterday I must have missed it.

          I clicked on Saarbo’s nat party link to see if they mentioned a region. The answers are possibly in that PDF of Q’s and A’s. I didn’t check it though. I got mesmarised and confused by the heading in the banner “Less debt, more jobs” (!?!?!), and then I started to feel a little sick from all that blue and had to quickly vacate the site lest I throw up.

          This lolnats post sums it up: “its not called socialism when its for mah friends!”

          http://www.lolnats.co.nz/page/22

        • rosy 2.1.1.2

          Thanks Saarbo and Rosie…
          Go lolnats. So they’re selling dams and then funding water storage. hmm

          Y’know I don’t have a problem with government investing in infrastructure to help industry when it helps job creation and the environment and when the government retains control. But this is a 10% investment for private profit from the sounds of it. And it’s the way they turning the country into a great big dairy farm to profit their friends that really galls.

          More than half of this investment is going to dairying/dairy support if they go by NZIER modelling.

          NZIER modelling assumed that the resulting land use change would see 42
          per cent of the area go to dairying, 16 per cent to mixed livestock, 27 per cent
          to arable (cropping), 11 per cent to dairy support and four per cent to
          horticulture.

          The pdfs mention water storage in Canterbury, Hawkes Bay, Wellington, Nelson/Tasman but they don’t say they are going to do anything in any region. It’s all a bit cloak and dagger to me. It’s also rolling over the country’s democracy, if it’s Canterbury.

          • Rosie 2.1.1.2.1

            “It’s all a bit cloak and dagger to me. It’s also rolling over the conutry’s democracy, if it’s Canterbury”.

            Exactly. The sacking of the elected representatives of ECAN was a breath taking act of tyranny, with the intention of blocking attempts from concerned parties who wish to take the matter of irrigation to the environment court. The documents obtained by The Press under the OIA spell out clearly the intention of the govt to “suspend democracy” in favour of economic growth for the Canterbury region: (And for whose benefit really?)

            http://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/news/7874996/Race-to-irrigate-behind-ECan-move

            John Minto’s view:

            http://www.converge.org.nz/watchdog/24/07.htm

            So water storage plans aside for Hawke’s Bay, Wellington and Nelson Tasman (thanks for actually reading the pdf’s on the nat site!) One of the big issues around the announcemment of the $80 million funding for irrigation is the removal of the democratic process. It’s just not any old irrigation scheme.
            Secondly, as you mentioned, is the issue of the environment. The expansion of dairying in Canterbury surely can’t be a sustainable move and one that the environment won’t be able to support long term. Climate change experts predict that dry regions of NZ (eg Canterbury) will continue to get drier and experience more droughts where as wetter areas (eg, west coast) will continue to get wetter and experience more floods. We had an example of this over Xmas/NY with floods in the west coast and ultra hot dry and windy conditions over the other side of the alps that contributed to scrub fires… And of course I agree with you in regard to the issue of industrial farming and it’s intensification. Just how much can you force out of an animal and out of the land that supports that animal?
            The burden on the environment will be too much.
            Oh for a govt with a vision!

            • rosy 2.1.1.2.1.1

              Jeez that Press link is dynamite – but not important enough to put on the Stuff main site? Go figure. I’ve also linked to the Forest & Bird press release about the irrigation subsidies on today’s Open Mike…

              This issue is far too important to fade into the background. The demolition of environment, finance, employment, social cohesion, animal welfare and, above all, democracy concerns all tied up in a neat package.

              btw I’m thinking that I won’t talk about subsidies for farmers – with connotations of giving a break to hard working rugged individualists getting up at the crack of dawn to tend their animals. I reckon I’m going to start talking about farming companies – with connotations of foreign ownership and/or big bank mortgages employing farm managers and minimum wage staff (increasingly imported) with no hope of getting on the farm ownership or share-milking ladder.

    • millsy 2.2

      I am not opposed to irrigation and water storage schemes as long as they are ***100 % PUBLICLY OWNED AND CONTROLLED***

      This irrigation investment company is bascially the government giving money to profit making entites so they can make money from OUR water, as the equity that this company will essentially be a minority stake and will be sold off in due course.

      The privatisation of water is at hand.

      • Saarbo 2.2.1

        Hi All, just to provide some more analysis on the benefit to farmers of Irrigation and therefore why farmers should pay for this themselves. An un-irrigated farm in the Waikato will make 1200 KG Milk Solids per hectare. When the land is irrigated in the South Island it can make between 1600kg MS to 2000kg MS. So a 300 Hectare farm in the SI will make between $70000 to $140000 per farm/per annum from irrigation (This is the value add from irrigation). My analysis is very conservative as if I was to compare the increase in per hectare profit of the SI farm before irrigation to the SI farm after irrigation the figures would be much larger. There is absolutely NO reason why these farmers cannot afford to pay for these schemes themselves. This is handouts to the rich.

        • rosy 2.2.1.1

          It is handouts to the rich.

          It’s also not only about water. It’s really bad for NZ’s reputation and a seriously important step along the way of intensification of factory farming. NZ grassland already can’t feed the cows that it has so it’s either import more palm kernel waste and intensify farming. Added to this is that NZ waterways already can’t manage the agricultural waste pumped in to them, Canterbury being a prime example.

          Reliance on one sector of intensive agriculture only enriches the companies that own those farms (wherever the company is from) and exploits the country, its workers and environment as well as being a disgusting way to treat animals (imho of course).

        • handle 2.2.1.2

          “There is absolutely NO reason why these farmers cannot afford to pay for these schemes themselves. This is handouts to the rich.”

          Yes. Most farms also owe money to our Australian banks so it becomes another transfer of public funds into their coffers in the end.

  3. just saying 3

    True story.

    I went to a meeting this week. I’d never been before, and didn’t I know any of the attendees.
    I was early, and as I sat down a conversation was in full swing about the awfulness of the government, which segued pretty seamlessly into the uselessness of the opposition. The present-day Labour reminded the older attendees of Rogernomics. There was reminiscing about privatisation and part-charges for hospital treatment. We all agreed with the guy who said the Labour oppostion was “same people – better suits.”

    I didn’t say any of the above. I was just smiling and nodding really.

    This was no “darkened room”, these people were not “extremist nutters”. The age range I’d guess at 28 – 65, demographic – pakeha, middle class.

    Just saying….

  4. tc 4

    Is anyone else finding the Vodafone network like the labour parliamentary effort lately.

    New campaign but losing markt share, messages either late or not getting through, conversations cut off or garbled in areas of full service.

    Blaming the user or the hardware.

  5. tc 5

    sorry that’s from an android device, said it wasn’t published and I can’t delete it. Fix please.

    • Colonial Weka 5.1

      Interesting anomaly there – no post number, and PP’s post ends up above yours despite being posted later.

    • Polish Pride I would not spend any time this weekend praying for my immune system to deal with the full blast of disease. I am still alive because I had multiple immunisations as a child.
      It is one thing to oppose the inherent corruption of capitalism, it is another to stupidly ignore the scientific and technical advances that it has profited from by keeping us alive as the creators of its wealth.
      Because I am alive I can plot to overthrow capitalism and expropriate its technical advances and put them to use in ongoing human survival.

    • LynWiper 6.2

      Thanks for that link PP.

  6. Colonial Weka 7

    I see Hooten’s latest shit-stirring is available online now.

    http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/labour-heading-another-meltdown-set-go-weekend-review-lf-134941

    Apparently all the authors and commenters on ts are part of Labour’s disaffected far left and are Cunliffe supporters 🙄

    • bad12 7.1

      LOLZ, i might start being nice to Hooten,(just kidding there’s not a s**t’s show of that occurring) i wonder if the number of ‘looks’ at the Standard goes up every time the Hooten’s of the world trying to denigrate this site use the main stream media to point people in the Standard’s direction,

      Free advertizing???, there are no free lunches but please don’t tell me i have to be nice to that (expletive deleted) wanker…

      • Colonial Weka 7.1.1

        If he bothered to attribute and quote properly (eg link), we might get more traffic.

        • Matthew Hooton 7.1.1.1

          There is a link from the column at NBR.co.nz to thestandard.org.nz z

          I asked them to be sure they included it.

          • IrishBill 7.1.1.1.1

            That’ll account for the boom in our page-views, I’m sure.

          • Colonial Weka 7.1.1.1.2

            Yeah, but you don’t link to the pieces you are referencing.

            Also, at least twice you use quotation marks around a statement. I had assumed you were quoting something someone had said on ts, but just hadn’t attributed that properly. But googling parts of the phrases returns no hits other than the NBR. What gives?

            • QoT 7.1.1.1.2.1

              Matthew likes to tread the line between being a cool, on-to-it online engagement dude and a proper, traditional newspaper guy. The latter comes in very handy because outfits like the NBR don’t understand how linking works or that there’s an expectation that online writing involve citations, yet he wants to be taken seriously as a member of the Standard’s commentariat.

            • Matthew Hooton 7.1.1.1.2.2

              The quotation remarks were weird things that came in through the sub-editing process. They have been removed.

    • The guy is a calculating spinner. I note he mentions me and my association with Cunliffe with the clear spin that DC is orchestrating it.

      There is only one slight problem. I would like him or anyone to point to one post or comment where I have tried to undermine Shearer. Any one will do.

      For too long the Labour Party has allowed people like Hooton to control and manage the debate. He ought to be left right out of it.

      • just saying 7.2.1

        Funnily enough Micky, before I was aware of your connection with Cunliffe I noticed that you were uncharacteristically circumspect on the whole issue during the many threads devoted to it.

      • Elizabeth Bourchier 7.2.2

        Hooton has input from Mike Williams and Chris Hipkins! That is the level to which the clique have descended to retain privileges.
        13 MPs must withhold their vote in the Confidence Motion in Feb.

      • bad12 7.2.3

        Indeed, except as a spitoon or a comic moment of light relief that one is to all extents and purposes of little use even to His mates in ACT,

        Debating with it ‘nicely’ it’s carefully scripted excerpts from the handbook of Ruthanasia-isms simply empowers it’s ego to yell from that wing-nuts gospel ever louder…

      • Matthew Hooton 7.2.4

        There is no “clear spin that DC is orchestrating it”, or any other kind of “spin”. If I wanted to say he was orchestrating it all, I would have said it. I know enough about these processes (Brash v English for example) to know that the candidate usually only knows a fraction of what is being said and done to advance his or her interests.

        • blue leopard 7.2.4.1

          Lol Quote of the year so far

          “There is no spin” ~ Matthew Hooton (Right-wing PR guy)

          What?? Were you taking the day off to be an innocent reporter Matthew?

          LOL

          • emergency mike 7.2.4.1.1

            ““There is no spin” ~ Matthew Hooton (Right-wing PR guy)”

            haha yeah I enjoyed that too.

            Hey Matthew, if you could similarly preface any future comments with “The following is/is not spin.” that shur would be helpful.

      • David H 7.2.5

        It’s just typical Bullshit Hooten style All piss, wind, and fuck all else.

  7. muzza 8

    Harriet Harman under attack over bid to water down child pornography law

    But she faces fresh criticism from Opposition MPs and campaign groups after The Daily Telegraph obtained documents showing that she called on ministers to make sexually explicit photographs or films of children legal unless there was evidence that the subject had been harmed.

    In case people were naïve enough to think, only *the right* (Ken Clarke et al) are involved!

    • Aww 8.1

      Thanks for the link Muzza.

    • Te Reo Putake 8.2

      Involved in what, muzza? Are you once again trying to smear Clarke as a paedophile?

    • rosy 8.3

      So Harriet Harman was the lawyer for the Council of Civil Liberties more than 30 years ago. I guess it must be true that a person’s view always reflects that of their employer all those years ago. /sarc

  8. Aww 10

    “A study by Kyung Hee Kim, professor of education for the College of William and Mary in Virginia, focused on the creativity of school age children between kindergarten and 12th grade using the measurement known as the Torrance tests of creative thinking.

    He found a ‘massive’ decline of creativity the longer the students progressed through the school system as ‘children have become less emotionally expressive, less energetic, less talkative and verbally expressive, less humorous, less imaginative, less unconventional, less lively and passionate, less perceptive, less apt to connect seemingly irrelevant things, less synthesizing, and less likely to see things from a different angle.’”

    http://www.davidicke.com/headlines/78788-eduction-paying-to-be-programmed

  9. Te Reo Putake 11

    Author Stephen King sticks it to the NRA:

    “Autos and semi-autos are weapons of mass destruction. When lunatics want to make war on the unarmed and unprepared, these are the weapons they use.”

    He said blanket opposition to gun control was less about defending the second amendment of the US constitution than “a stubborn desire to hold onto what they have, and to hell with the collateral damage”.

    He added: “If that’s the case, let me suggest that ‘fuck you, Jack, I’m okay’ is not a tenable position, morally speaking.”

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2013/jan/25/stephen-king-gun-control-essay-amazon-nra

  10. Pascal's bookie 12

    You know what’s controversial on Kiwiblog? The holocaust; that’s what.

    It’s an outrage that it gets such attention, when western left wing parties are just as bad. Dontchaknow.

  11. uke 13

    Welcome to New Zealand’s very own “Love Canal”. The water in Lake Horowhenua is now so toxic “that a mouthful could kill a child”:

    http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL1301/S00049/supreme-court-to-rule-on-lake-horowhenua.htm

    As one report summarises, the chief causes are phosphorous pollution from Levin’s stormwater and nitrogen pollution from farming runoff. Click on the link at the bottom of this page:

    http://www.ecofest.co.nz/Environment.html

  12. Ed 14

    I am looking for a site that gives a good summary of the pros and cons for selling minority interests in SOE’s – any suggestions? I’m not looking for ideological arguments, but facts and examples.
    Any suggestions?

    • McFlock 14.1

      It’s a strategic decision, so it is a mix of strategic factors. That involves ideology.

      It was debated at length on this site when first mentioned, but to me it comes down to:
      BENEFITS
      Cash now.
      Maybe technological innovation if the purchaser has synergies.
      Ideological beliefs that private sector is more efficient than the public sector.

      COSTS
      permanent deprivation of future dividends.
      lack of government control as a sole shareholder (especially in relation to compromising market profits in favour of public good, e.g. employment or keeping power prices low).
      redundancy: if it’s a private sector opportunity, why not let the private sector start their own and provide competition? Isn’t that the entire point of the private sector market?

      • Colonial Viper 14.1.1

        Yep. Thats the financial analysis. In real economy terms, power generation is core economic infrastructure and as such, its loss of control is loss of control of economic sovereignty.

  13. just saying 15

    A few odd things happening.

    The comments above have no numbers, just circles where the numbers should be.

    I did a site search recently, and found that many Standard posts and comments are dated before the internet was even invented. Very prescient they were about recent events. But seriously last time I delved into the beginnings of the Standard the correct dates went right back to the begining (of the Standard, not of time).

    Thirdly, the chronological search wasn’t chronological or even particlularly logical.

    Might well be something my end.

    edit: and now the circle comments are below this comment despite my writing this after they were written.

    • Colonial Weka 15.1

      The date thing is a known glitch, Lynn said he’s working on it.

      The comments appearing in a funny order seemed to start today. The comments at the bottom of this thread, where there is no post number, all ended up stuck to the bottom of the page (plus they were replies to posts not stand alone comments).

      [lprent: Doing final release of the code of product two at work. I’m going to have problems finding any time until that is completed. ]

  14. @ Hooten,The thing that struck me( yeth i’m a real perthon) is that there are others outside of TS that are feeling the same concerns as the high number of commenters here are, over the Shearer leadership, we all can’t be exteme leftist zelots.
    Shearer says he was elected, not really, he lost the ‘around the mountain’ vote,it was his mates, inside caucus, that installed him as the leader, much to the angst of the members.
    What an absolute waste of time it was to have 10 meetings,the planning,members setting
    aside time to attend, the co-ordination of the halls, etc, then to have it all thrown back in
    ones face and the result ignored, Cunliffe won 9 out of 10 meetings.
    Then the ‘winning’ opponent was relegated to the backbenches after a supposed coup attempt,
    beaten up by the media,the following demotion of Cunliffe was a disgrace and uncalled for,it
    has just added fuel to the fire, this action was not reflective of a democraticly inclined
    leader,hence the feeling many feel towards Shearer, who is the real Shearer ? ‘I dunno’
    His character and his attitudes need some immediate adjustments though.

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