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Open mike 26/08/2016

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, August 26th, 2016 - 140 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

openmikeOpen mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose. The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

140 comments on “Open mike 26/08/2016 ”

  1. TheExtremist 1

    As I am the first (yay!) let me propose an idea… lets try have a day without Trump vs. Reality. Now I know I am guilty of prodding the pro-Trumpers but I never start these discussions.
    Lets focus on how we can change NZ’s political landscape and where National has let us all down (i.e. with everything).

    Also, I don’t know how many of you are hip-hop fans but this DJ Shadow ft. Run The Jewels is a monster of a tune with an epic video:

    Happy Friday yo!

    • Andre 1.1

      Sorry, I know you asked for a no-Trump day, but this is too good not to share.


      • TheExtremist 1.1.1

        Doesn’t matter what I ask for – this is Open Mike. I have no control 🙂

        Oh and Coulter is completely unhinged

        • weka

          How to ensure a day of debate focussed on Trump? Suggest we talk about other things* 😉

          Herding cats mate.

          *it was a good idea though, although I’m over talking about Nationall too. Talking about what we do is more attractive.

          • Robert Guyton

            weka @*

            Agree most effusively!

          • Andre

            Herding cats is easy. All ya gotta do is manage their food.

            • Anne

              Here’s a go. We’ll talk about cats.

              I have a problem. Felt sorry for a local black stray so have been leaving a small bowl of cat biscuits in the garage each evening. Trouble is, it must be an un-neutered tom and he’s started peeing on things in the garage. I can’t stop feeding him now because it would be cruel. I can’t adopt him (and have him done) as I have a large, beautiful ginger girl who sleeps 20 hours a day on her own sheepskin rug and would not allow another feline to set foot in her house. Now there’s another cat vying for the biscuit bowl and I’m worried I might become known as – God forbid – the “local cat lady”. 😯

              What to do?

              • TheExtremist

                That’s a tough one. It’s hard eh. You want to look after the poor creature but can’t realistically.

                Makes me feel sad 🙁

              • weka

                Do you have a local cat rescue group? They can provide a trap, advice and support, and will probably pay for the neutering. They can probably rehome if the cat isn’t feral.

                SPCA might help too. Or come vets have stray cat funds to get cats fixed. The big issue is to get it neutered so it doesn’t add to the feral cat population, and so it isn’t fighting with other cats.

              • Andre

                Well, I’d go ahead and catnap him and have him done anyway. Even if he’s got a human slave elsewhere in the neighbourhood, it’s pretty antisocial for a tom to be freely wandering around in full possession of his nuts. Probably won’t stop him peeing on everything, tho. I s’pose to cover my ass I’d check with the local SPCA or Citizens Advice Bureau just what the laws were around that.

                I’d go and build a little shelter outside the garage to put the food in, rather than letting him in the garage. Then if he got friendly over time, I’d consider seeing if I could introduce him into the house. There’s plenty of advice on the web how to introduce cats without them hating each other.

                Same for the second stray.

                It’s too late, you’re probably already the crazy cat lady. Own it.

              • McFlock

                I reckon four or more cats is the level for local notability.

                Two is fine 🙂

                • Andre

                  How many before you become the crazy cat guy? I’ve been as high as three and nobody said anything (that I know of).

                  • McFlock

                    Four again. I think it’s gender neutral.

                    Unless the number of people in your household outnumbers the number of cats, in which case you’ll probably be overheard talking to humans just as much as to felines.

                    But if you have pets in addition to the cats, especially exotic ones like huge rabbits or a llama, you’ll just be known as the family with the zoo.

              • Brigid

                Don’t forget the cat just regards you as ‘staff’. If you stop feeding it, it wont be cruel. The cat will just move on to the next free meal place (It’s probably got half a dozen around the neighbourhood anyway).

                So there ya go. Problem solved.

                Also, that it’s spraying, doesn’t mean it’s not neutered, just that it’s marking your garage as it’s own.

                • Anne

                  (It’s probably got half a dozen around the neighbourhood anyway).

                  Don’t think so Brigid. It was very thin. I’ve solved the spraying problem. It’s confined to a table and chair so I drape an old towel over them each day. Remove towel each morning and hang outside, then at end of week wash them and start over again.

                  I live opposite two schools and it is known people dump their cats there when they no longer want them or they’re shifting somewhere they can’t take them. Too lazy to take them to the SPCA or some other cat agency who might be able to re-home them.

                  • Karen

                    I think I’d have had to admit to cat lady status about 20 years ago when I was feeding 8 strays! There seems to be a sign outside our house that only cats see that indicates a potential home as I have taken in many strays over the years – never once needed to go out and get a cat. I always trap them and get them neutered – it is the only way to control the cat population. Currently have three.

                    Hint for stopping cats spraying – get some citronella from the chemist and put a couple of drops into water then wipe the surface of anywhere the cat has sprayed. Cats hate the smell and will stop spraying in that area.

                    • Anne

                      Thanks for that Karen. I will definitely try the citronella. It’s good for sprinkling into stagnant water (drains etc.) to prevent mosquitos from breeding too.

                    • Leftie

                      You’re a very nice person too Karen, people like you and Anne are heroes in my book. Thanks so much for the advice. 🙂

                  • Leftie

                    Abandoned and neglected animals need all the support that they can get. Like I said, you are a very nice person Anne 🙂

              • Outdoor

                Ask Gareth Morgan

          • TheExtremist

            Yeah I wanted to talk about music to start with. Ah well

            • Andre

              Music to Trump to cats to mosquitos. Not bad for a single sub-thread.

              • In Vino

                Actually, I came in to view the controversial, the trolling, etc, and was quite intrigued with this.

    • Puckish Rogue 1.2

      I’m still just gobsmacked that the best candidates the US can throw up (good choice of words) is Clinton v Trump

      No way either of them should be anywhere near the presidency

      • Stuart Munro 1.2.1

        Yes, they have much in common with the Key Kleptocracy.

        • Puckish Rogue

          No they really don’t. John Key is popular PM that the people of NZ keep voting back in, is someone that manages to make NZ punch well above its weight, especially in trade, manages to maintain cordial relationships with many, much larger economies and will soon win his fourth election

          So no not much in common at all

          • Stuart Munro

            Key resembles Trump – a shoddy charlatan with an interest in girls his daughter’s age, no vision for anything but self enrichment, and incapable of telling the truth about anything. They are media products – they don’t represent their people or anything of value.

            “A normal person must
            dismiss them with disgust
            and weep for those who trusted them”

            • Colonial Viper

              What kind of two bit analysis is that?; Key is an Investment Bankster at heart, and Clinton is a highly paid apparatchik of the Hedge Fund and Investment Banking Wall St crowd.

              • Stuart Munro

                Hillary’s vices do not redeem Trump.

                • TheExtremist

                  Exactly. Succinct and to the point.

                  Seen Trumps new advisors? Steve Bannon from the alt-right movement (read alt-right as white nationalist, hardcore conservatives) and Darth Vader of the US media Roger Ailes (currently embroiled in major sexual harrasement scandals).

              • Leftie

                John Key is a greedy, lying crook at heart and has shown being a money trader is not good PM material.

          • Draco T Bastard

            No they really don’t.

            Yes, they really do. They both live on Planet Key for starters.

            is someone that manages to make NZ punch well above its weight

            No, he’s destroying NZ as the increasing poverty and homelessness proves.

            manages to maintain cordial relationships with many, much larger economies

            Through lies and deception to the people of NZ he makes it look like he’s maintaining cordial relationships.

            • Puckish Rogue

              Yes, they really do. They both live on Planet Key for starters.

              – No they don’t

              No, he’s destroying NZ as the increasing poverty and homelessness proves.

              – Nope, increasing poverty is happening due to increasing population

              Through lies and deception to the people of NZ he makes it look like he’s maintaining cordial relationships.

              – No hes not a unionist

              • Draco T Bastard

                No they don’t

                They both hold the same delusional mindset as Key so, yes they do.

                Nope, increasing poverty is happening due to increasing population

                Besides that it’s somewhat more complicated than that guess who’s got the immigration flood gates wide open?

                No hes not a unionist

                I’ve never seen a union lie whereas there’s over 400 documented lies from John Key.

              • No, no, no and no, nope, nope and nope.

                All a righty apologist needs to know in order to debate, nope, nope, nopedy-nope.

          • swordfish

            Young Master Puckers: “John Key is popular PM”

            Not so much these days, young man. Key’s Net Favourability ratings are now pretty damn close to zero (meaning as many voters hold Unfavourable as Favourable views of him). Meanwhile, he’s now consistently polling below 40% as Preferred PM. So, basically, the thrill has gone for voters, he’s lost his Mojo (and saying But look at Andrew’s numbers ! won’t disguise this new, cold hard reality).

            Having said that, it’s true that, by comparison with the deeply-disliked Hillary and Trumpie, Key’s mediocre ratings don’t look quite so bad.

            • Puckish Rogue

              Would you agree though that in comparison to any other leader of a NZ political party that he could still be considered popular and if not why not?

              Yeah I know it sounds like an antagonistic reply but I am genuinely interested in your view on this

              • arkie

                You have just done exactly what swordfish said you would do and they’re right, it’s not disguising reality. Obviously Key is still ‘more popular’ but he’s trending down, which was exactly swordfish’s point that you’ve decided to ignore. So not so much antagonistic as it is a predictable distraction attempt.

                • Puckish Rogue

                  Not really though I can how you might take that. Key is trending downwards yes but I think it really does matter to take into account the level from which hes descending in comparison to the level at which his opponents are currently at.

                  For instance if Key is at 40% and falling and little is at 7% and static then its going to take quite a while for Little and Key to be close and probably not before the next election

                  • The “smelly soap” thing is going to cling.

                    • Puckish Rogue

                      Actually I disagree on this (surprise surprise) the people who dislike Key have already made up their minds about this, same as the people who like Key and the rest of the population will just be going m’eh about it, I mean its The Edge they have form in doing stupid things anyway

              • swordfish

                “Yeah I know it sounds like an antagonistic reply”

                I’ve never known you to be antagonistic, Puckers. You’re a relatively congenial, relaxed, laid back sort of a bloke. One might almost say: a kind of “Puckish Rogue”.

                On the one hand, it’s self-evident that Key is well ahead in the Preferred PM stakes. But that’s just one measure. By no means a trivial matter, but arguably not the be-all and end-all either.

                On net Favourability, Little has equalled or found himself marginally ahead of Key over the last 18 months. That’s not to say more people positively Favour Little than Key. They don’t. But more voters hold a positive rather than Negative view of Little (albeit with a fairly large Unsure component – which is natural for an Opposition Leader). By contrast, Key is now a Polariser in the way that Muldoon once was. He’s still Favoured by a marginally greater number of voters than Little is, but by the same token he’s also managed to alienate a significantly larger number of voters than the Opposition Leader.

                So, at one and the same time, New Zealand’s answer to The Man of La Mancha manages to be both more popular than Little (larger %) and yet also more disliked (larger %).

                Interestingly, Winnie’s moved back into Favourable territory in recent years. Voter perceptions of him had been quite negative during the latter part of the Clark Govt and early stages of Key’s first term. (Goes hand-in-hand, of course, with NZF’s recent revival)

                • Puckish Rogue

                  The interesting thing about communicating through words only is how easy it is for the other person to get the wrong idea of what you’re saying.

                  That’s some good points, I don’t suppose you have Helen Clarks numbers handy because I’d assume she was quite…polarising herself?

                  • swordfish


                    UMR – Leader Favourability Ratings
                    (Key vs Clark at same stage in Govt cycle)

                    Net Positive Ratings

                    …………………..John Key…….vs……. Helen Clark

                    2013 …………… + 19 ………………………. + 30 ……………. 2004

                    2014 …………… + 27 ………………………. + 30………………2005

                    2015 … (1/2) .. + 19 ………………………. + 28 ……………. 2006…. (1/2)

                    2015 … (2/2) …+ 13 ………………………. + 22 ……………. 2006 …. (2/2)

                    Key’s net rating is now down in low single figures.


                    Reid Research – Leader Performance Ratings
                    (Key vs Clark at same stage in Govt cycle)

                    Net Positive Ratings
                    (Unfortunately, I don’t have much post-2013 Reid Research data for Key on this particular measure – just one or two bits and pieces. So, I’ll restrict it to Key’s first term)

                    …………………. John Key …. vs …… Helen Clark

                    2011 …………… + 55 …………………….. + 59 …………… 2002

                    2012 ……………. + 30 …………………… + 48 …………… 2003

                    2013 ……………. + 25 …………………… + 39 ……….. … 2004

                    So, you can see that Clark’s numbers were superior to Key’s and she wasn’t quite the polariser that some might assume. Mind you, probably fair to say she tended to be respected rather than liked.

                    • Stuart Munro

                      I’m not sure it was Clark per se, that made the change.

                      There was:
                      a contentious or unpopular anti-smacking bill
                      The strange journey of Chris Carter
                      A pledge card that wasn’t the vote winner its authors imagined

                      Leader appeal or charisma can be important, but it cannot redeem conspicuous non-performance indefinitely.

                    • Puckish Rogue

                      She is/was a strong leader

                    • Stuart Munro

                      Weak characters demand strong leaders. The biggest joke is on Russia.

                    • Ad

                      Be still me heart I thought you were about to do Key V LIttle ratings.

                  • Graeme

                    Stuart, we can also add to that list,

                    The world turning to shit in rather spectacular fashion.

                    That would have taken out any third term government, of any stripe, in New Zealand.

      • alwyn 1.2.2

        Those candidates certainly tend to ruin ones faith in primaries as a way to choose candidates don’t they?
        Perhaps you should nominate the people who you think should have been chosen.
        Looking only at the people who did run I think the best choices would have been Martin O’Malley from Maryland and John Kasich from Ohio.
        I don’t think you can suggest people who never attempted to get the nomination. Therefore I don’t count people like Senator Warren, who refused to run, or anyone who withdrew before the first primary.

      • arkie 1.2.3

        Only 9% of eligible voters actually chose either of them. The primary system is incredibly flawed, they should all be open and unrestricted.


        • alwyn

          Can we have an open, unrestricted primary system in New Zealand?
          Imagine if anyone at all could vote in the election of a party leader, which is really the equivalent of the US Presidential primaries.
          We would end up with John Key being elected as leader of the Labour Party as well as the National Party. It would probably give them a much better chance in the General Election of course.
          Some States in the US used to allow this. In 1946 Earl Warren ran in, and won, the primaries of the Republican, Democrat and Progressive parties. He thus ran virtually unopposed in the election.

          • arkie

            Primaries aren’t like voting for the leader of a party. There is no point to them in a parliamentary system.

            Earl Warren was running for Governor, and cross-filing (running in more that one party primary) was abolished in 1959, so it’s a historical anomaly really.

            • alwyn

              They have them in the US for Congress don’t they Are you meaning to say it is not a parliamentary system?
              “so it’s a historical anomaly really”
              Well yes. You did notice that I said “Some States in the US used to allow this”. I didn’t want anyone to think it was still possible.

              • arkie

                Yes, both houses of the Congress of the United States have primaries, and yes it is not a Parliamentary system, and yes, I was reiterating that cross-filing hasn’t worked like that for more than 50 years.

    • s y d 1.3

      mean vid, sick tune, great ending

      edit – reply to the extremist, but won’t let me

    • Reddelusion 1.4

      Go trump ( the Barbara Streisand affect, sorry 😀)

      Trump is jackass but he does not pretend to be anything else, Hillary in turn is a completely different matter, allegedly corrupt to the core

      • Colonial Viper 1.4.1

        As I said, Hillary has had 30 years practice hiding who she actually is and what she actually thinks. Trump is just getting started.

        • marty mars

          yep, you said… ho hum – so nice you want to get trump up to the speed of clinton (who you hate with a vengeance) – just shows how disconnected with reality you are.

          • TheExtremist

            CV hates Clinton so much his reality has warped into supporting a man who has a white nationalist as his campaign manager.

            • Puckish Rogue

              Who is more likely to lead the USA into another war, Clinton who already has form in this area or Trump who it seems like he wants to move a more isolationist agenda?

              • Stuart Munro

                Trump is very thick with Putin.

                I don’t want world war III, but I don’t want Putin overrunning eastern Europe like he’s just signed Ribbentrop II either.

              • trump is a liar with political inexperience, clinton is a liar with political experience – as cv notes above. Anyone trusting trump is delusional. To say he is more or less likely to do anything is really dreaming – he is a liar, a bigot, a shallow thinker, a kneejerker – oh and he won’t lead the yanks to war – total delusion and idiocy puck

                • Puckish Rogue

                  You did note I stated “seems” didn’t you…

                  • seems makes it seem like a nothing comment – I imbued more substance into it than that

                    nice that we agree 🙂 do you agree that we agree?

                    • Puckish Rogue

                      So who, in your opinion, is most likely to start a war, Clinton or Trump?

                    • Puckish Rogue

                      Fair enough

                    • come on mate – tell me about the screaming lambs now

                    • Puckish Rogue

                      I personally think that, due to her prior actions, Clinton would likely start a war before Trump

                    • cool, we disagree – sorta good cos I struggle when I find I agree with anyone other than a righteous left winger

                    • Puckish Rogue

                      For what its worth I suspect there’s more then a few lefties that would probably agree with me on this

                    • McFlock

                      Personally, I reckon Clinton and Trump are equally likely to increase US military combat deployments somewhere in the world, most likely Syria, but several spots in Africa and maybe the philipines.

                      My concern with Trump is that his lumbering oafishness and narcissistic bombast will spark a major confrontation between nuclear powers. If he doesn’t kick off india and pakistan, or nuke someone off his own bat, then his plan to boost NATO forces under different command structures increases the probability of a flashpoint between putin and EU.

                      Even though SthK and Japan will tell him to get fucked when he demands they build their own nukes, the fact that he even floated the idea means that he has no idea about the geopolitical situation he wants to be a key decisionmaker in.

                      So “start a war” is even odds. “Start the last war” and Trump is far more likely to do it that Clinton, imo.

                    • Puckish Rogue

                      Outing people is seriously not cool but they know who they are

                    • This sums up my view of trump and war

                      “…Trump has said a lot of scary (and racist) things on the campaign trail, from calling undocumented immigrants rapists to saying he’d ban Muslims from the country to urging supporters at his rallies to attack protesters.
                      But his answer Tuesday night was especially terrifying; it revealed what it means to put an ignorant blowhard with a head full of jagged rocks in charge of enough munitions to blow up the entire world several times over.
                      Let’s go through his answer. If you didn’t see it in real time, know that you should experience the stomach-churning terror you feel when you climb that first hill on an especially tall roller coaster…

                      …Hewitt: “Of the three legs of the triad, though, do you have a priority? I want to go to Sen. Rubio after that and ask him.”
                      Trump: “I think – I think, for me, nuclear is just the power, the devastation is very important to me.”
                      The devastation is very important to him. That flailing nonsense is the best Trump can manage. A reasonably well-informed fifth grader could come up with something better.
                      The problem isn’t simply that Trump doesn’t have detailed plans to make sure our nuclear weapons are safely maintained. The problem is that he doesn’t understand even the most basic premise of a relatively simple question. He couldn’t muster a “I’ll make sure we have the most modern, best nuclear arsenal the world has ever seen,” because he didn’t know what he was being asked.
                      Imagine handing over the nuclear codes to a man with the comprehension skills of Donald J. Trump. Do you honestly believe he would understand the consequences of using them? Trump is obsessed with tough-guy machismo. How much provocation does he need to press that button?…”


                    • Colonial Viper

                      Clinton is far more likely to start minor wars around the world (Syria, Libya, etc.) , and she is far more likely to accidentally start a big fucking war (China, Russia, both) with her neocons friends ramping up the rhetoric in order to raise both tensions and defense procurement contracts.

                    • Colonial Viper

                      As for people saying that Trump is more likely to press the button.

                      Your ignorance is massive.

                      Obama has green lit the development of a whole new generation of “more useable” low yield precision nuclear weapons which are promised to – get this – cause less environmental damage.

                      Hillary and her neocon associates actually consider that a nuclear war might be winnable with these kinds of new weapons.


                    • your opinions have very low cred in my book because of your fawning of trump – it has sort of coloured my view of even the things you write that make sense – for instance your cc posts when you support a denier – can’t compute that one and given up trying – btw the difference argument you use to justify the above are rubbish so please don’t waste space with it here.

                      btw – I just think you’ve jumped the shark – no personal animosity though, although you can pontificate a bit but then I have my own wee foibles too so all good 🙂

                    • McFlock

                      Hillary and her neocon associates actually consider that a nuclear war might be winnable with these kinds of new weapons.

                      Your link has absolutely nothing to do with that assertion, nor does it give any indication of what Clinton’s advice to Obama was while he was making that decision.

                      More to the point, in terms of threats to world peace how does the B21 package compare with Trump’s desire to discard the nuclear non-proliferation treaty?

                    • Lanthanide

                      I think anyone who is talking about whether Clinton or Trump would be more likely to start a war, and especially anyone talking about their stance on nuclear weapons, needs to watch this interview:

                      “Several months ago, a foreign policy expert on the international level went to advise Donald Trump. And three times [Trump] asked about the use of nuclear weapons. Three times he asked at one point if we had them why can’t we use them,” Scarborough said on his “Morning Joe” program.

                      He seems stupider than Palin, if that were possible.

                      I guess the top brass of the military could choose to resign on the spot, rather than accede to his orders if they would put the US in greater danger.

    • Rosie 1.5

      Extremist. That’s an exceptionally powerful fantastic new video/mini movie from DJ Shadow and run the jewels.

      I put it up on my faceblab page yesterday instead of here because I thought some one might find it offensive.

      This track is a banger!!! The video says alot about our useless elite powerful masters

  2. ianmac 2

    Talking of Clinton, this funny clip was interesting. The zoomed in image of a Secret Service man standing beside Clinton and holding a thing which was allegedly an emergency hyperdermic. Off we go again on health issues.

  3. The Chairman 3

    A long way off or a few weeks away?

    Drones were extremely dangerous machines which had the potential to kill people if they collided with a vehicle.

    The razor sharp rotor blades could also inflict severe injury or death said X-craft Enterprises director Philip Solaris.

    X-craft is a CAA approved drone operator providing emergency, forestry, commercial, farming and survey services using fixed wing and multi-rotor drones.

    Solaris said pizza delivery by drones was a long way off due to strict Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) regulations and health and safety laws.

    Transport Minister Simon Bridges said the (Domino’s drone delivery) trial was a valuable opportunity for the CAA.

    New aviation rules came into effect in August last year to regulate and enable the use of drones for recreational and commercial purposes in New Zealand.

    CAA spokeswoman Philippa Lagan said because Domino’s application was under consideration, it could not comment publicly on it.

    Domino’s will be able to fly pizza deliveries later this year if its application to carry out operation is approved, she said.

    A decision was expected to be made in a few weeks’ time.



    • Ad 3.1

      A sci fi tech guy called Solaris!
      Universe just Moebius-ghosted its own machine.

    • Colonial Viper 3.2

      Pizza delivery girl jobs on the line due to tech. Retraining I guess is the answer (lol)

    • Halfcrown 3.3

      My thoughts

      Al-Jazeera has a documentary on at the moment called Drone. It is about the scary manufacture and use by Obama and others of drones killing innocent civilians.
      Henry interviewed some dick from Domino Pizza’s, who was explaining the new proposed drone delivery service. Henry asked this guy how would they be so accurate in the delivery and this twat said it uses military technology to make sure it gets to where it should go. On TV1 News last night prat Bridges was foaming at the mouth how WUNDEROUSE this was going to be.

      An open message to Dominoe Pizza’s,

      First, shove your Pizza’s right up your arse. Also, since a kid I have been a dead shot with a catapult, and my property is a no-fly zone.

  4. Colonial Viper 4

    UK Labour boycotts G4S, G4S refuses to provide security for Labour Conference, Labour Conference may need to be cancelled

    This is a first grade f-up in progress.


  5. ianmac 5

    “Corrections has been ordered to reconsider its decision not to allow journalist Mike White to report on the first-ever meeting between Gerard Hope and Scott Watson.”
    Good show chaps.

  6. Draco T Bastard 6

    Surprise! Fake Babies Actually Make Kids Think Teenage Motherhood is Awesome

    But in a new study, Australian researchers found that the exercise is doing more harm than good—when they compared girls in Australia who participated in the program to girls who did not, eight percent of the girls who carried the doll gave birth at least once while they were still in high school, compared with four percent of girls in the control group who never worked with the doll. Rates of pregnancy overall were higher in girls who used the infant simulator—nine percent had at least one abortion, where the control group’s rate was six percent.

    Oops 😈

  7. Wanna win?

    ” Movements for social change that want to win always take each temporary defeat as a learning experience, draw lessons from the failure, and change their tactics, strategy, and framing of the issue based on those lessons, then fling themselves back into the struggle with a better chance at victory. They also look at other movements that succeed and ask themselves, “How can we do the same thing with our cause?” Movements for social change that respond to failure by reaching for excuses and trying to convince themselves and everyone else that the battle could never have been won in the first place, on the other hand, get a shallow grave and a water-color epitaph.”

    • It’s about climate change.

      “And the movement against anthropogenic climate change? If you’ve been following along, dear reader, you’ll already have noticed that it fell victim to all four of the bad habits just enumerated—the four horsepersons, if you will, of the apocalyptic failure of radicalism in our time. It allowed itself to be distracted from its core purpose by a flurry of piggybacking interests; it got turned into a captive constituency of the Democratic Party; it suffers from a bad case of purity politics, in which (to raise a point I’ve made before) anyone who questions the capacity of renewable resources to replace fossil fuels, without conservation taking up much of the slack, is denounced as a denialist; and it has consistently pandered to the privileged, pursuing policies that benefit the well-to-do at the expense of the working poor. Those bad habits helped foster the specific mistakes I enumerated in my earlier post-mortem on climate change activism, and led the movement to crushing defeat.”


      • Ad 7.1.1

        “Archdruid – by a long way the wankiest name ever for a blogger – is the biggest Cassandra out there. They revel in the idea of defeat, because it absolves them of agency and hence the responsibility for action in the actual world.

        The climate change activists are winning. The deniers are a fringe who get ridiculed. Almost all world governments are aligned on goals that were never deemed agreeable. Who knows whether we meet them, but that’s a different point to persuasion. Spare me from this wank about “crushing defeat”.

        Give yourselves a break on environmentalism as well. No MSM media outlet directly celebrates environmental destruction anymore.

        Same goes for water quality in New Zealand – we are seeing a really rapid turnaround in commentary, and there’s more to come. Just reflect back to the kind of coverage environmentalists got in the 1980s and 1990s, not that long ago.

        • marty mars

          YOU are SO judgmental – and you base it on malformed understandings, deliberate mistruths and incomplete nay childish interpretations of what you think is coming up. Because let’s be honest, you haven’t really read much of the archdruid have you, the name even is anathema to you because of your christian beliefs. You know as little of JMG as you do the Māori King – yet you are oh so quick to try and put the boot in – sad and pathetic or just your loving belief system???

  8. Rodel 8

    Happened to read this about Fox News’s Sean Hannity in the New York Times-

    “Mr. Hannity’s show has all the trappings of traditional television news — the anchor desk, the graphics and the patina of authority that comes with being part of a news organization…..But because Mr. Hannity is “not a journalist,” he apparently feels free to work in the full service of his candidate without having to abide by journalism’s general requirements for substantiation and prohibitions…….”


    And thought- one could substitute ‘Hoskings’ for ‘Hannity’.
    just saying….

    • TC 8.1

      Or Henry, Gower, Soper, williams, smith etc etc

      • Rodel 8.1.1

        TC yes but I think those on your list regard themselves as journalists (I dunno who Williams and Smith are).
        The main difference being Hoskings has stated that he’s not a journalist so like Hannity he assumes carte lanche

  9. Red Hand 9

    Contrast this news with the situation in NZ

    “There was a record German budget surplus (18.5bn Euros and +1.2% of German GDP) after Q2 growth of 0.4%…. “The run of surpluses has allowed Finance Minister Wolfgang Schaeuble to increase state spending on roads, housing and digital infrastructure ahead of federal elections in 2017, while sticking to his goal of running a balanced budget.” (Reuters)”

    A government that can do this would get my support. “increase state spending on roads, housing and digital infrastructure”, but in NZ prioritise state spending on education, housing and health. Get on with it !!!!!

    • b waghorn 9.1

      I’d say thats possible because they don’t bribe their voters with tax breaks .

      From wikipedia
      ”Income tax rate in 2015[edit]
      No income tax is charged on the basic allowance, which is €8,354 for unmarried persons and €16,708 for jointly assessed married couples. Beyond this threshold, the marginal tax rate increases linearly from 14% to 24% for a taxable income of €13,469 (€26,938 for married couples). In the subsequent interval up to a taxable income of €52,881 (€105,762 for married couples), the marginal tax rate increases linearly from 24% to 42%. The last change of rates occurs at a taxable income of €250,730 (€501,460 for married couples) when the marginal tax rate jumps from 42% to 45%. The course of the marginal tax rate and the resulting average tax rate are depicted in the graph to the right.”

  10. Observer Tokoroa 10

    .Hillary Clinton.

    . How does she do It ? A confident list of alleged faults is held against Hillary, including hidden crimes, massive corruptions; money laundering, plus a highly retarded mind, coupled with constant (non proven) serious deformations of her self abused body and numerous illnesses.

    It surprises me that Protestant Fundamentalist weirdos have not burned the witch at the stake.

    It further surprises me that Hillary is condemned without defence here on The Standard.

    But of course, New Zealand is full of rednecks that spend their life destroying competent women. They bash women up. Why,because unlike Hillary, they are perfect. Better than that, they are Males.

    • Rodel 10.1

      I don’t mind Hillary and out of all the contenders I hope she becomes president.

      In the minds of the impressionable,Trump’s propagandist meme generator has successfully implanted ‘crooked Hillary’, ‘weak Hillary’, ‘mentally unstable Hillary’ and is now working on ‘sick Hillary’.
      I wonder what’s the next adjective he’ll use? Oestrogenic? menopausal? OMG he might even call her womanly!

      • Garibaldi 10.1.1

        As has been stated so many times, neither candidate is suitable . What a crazy thread today. How come rape culture didn’t pop up ?

      • Observer Tokoroa 10.1.2

        . + 100 Rodel

        . I see the trolls have woken up. It amazes me that they don’t like women. Neither does their redneck hero.
        . Their entire life is a fantasy. A two yr old fantasy.


    • One Two 10.2

      Hillary and Bill Clinton are failed human beings!

      Morally and ethically in serious default, both having committed, and been complicit in war crimes around the world

      The Clinton cartel murder count is in the millions between them and their counterparts The Bush family cartel

      If you’re comfortable sweeping what little you might have bothered to read regarding history under the mat, thats your choice, but don’t be so ridiculous as to use gender bias as a smear against those who can see the criminality oozing from every pore of Hillarys skin

      Learn some techniques that can help you critically evaluate information in a more decerning manner

      Your frequency is low

  11. Observer Tokoroa 11

    One Two
    Nothing wrong with your counting.

    . The Trump could soon have his finger on the Nuclear Bomb.

    . Then your tortured worries over Hillary could soon be over eh. Everything will be so much better One Two. Won’t it?

    .You detest the Clintons. Who else do you loath. ? don’t be shy. Spit it out. Go on.
    Three cheers for the loathers and the haters – rednecks all of them.



  12. Chooky 12

    Advice from Aunty Chooky

    Talking about spooks in your iphone….(time to go back to landlines and watch out for strange men up telegraph poles?)…in other words keep your iphone under the sofa and OFF!

    ‘Apple upgrades security after alleged Israeli group’s spyware attack on Arab activist’


    “A botched hack attempt using “sophisticated spyware package” allegedly tailored by an Israeli group on the iPhone of an Arab activist has triggered Apple to issue an “important” security update for its mobile operating system, iOS.

    The attackers tried to lure Ahmed Mansoor, a United Arab Emirates (UAE)-based human rights activist, with text messages embedding a suspicious link to “secrets” about detainees tortured in Arab jails.

    Not a stranger to his government’s crackdown, from imprisonment and travel bans to spying, Mansoor did not take the bait, but instead sent it to the Canada-based security lab.

    “It was a wise move,” Citizen Lab said in a release. “Mansoor’s unfortunate experiences are the gift that won’t stop giving.”…

    …”If Mansoor clicked on that link with “secrets,” his iPhone would have been turned into a “sophisticated bugging device,” and UAE security agencies would be able to turn on his iPhone’s camera and microphone, record his and everything surrounding Mansoor.

    “They would have been able to log his emails and calls — even those that are encrypted end-to-end. And, of course, they would have been able to track his precise whereabouts,” Citizen Lab said.

    The developer behind what the Lookout team called “the most sophisticated attack we’ve seen on any endpoint” is believed to be an Israeli-based, US-owned NSO Group that speaks of itself as a “cyber war” company.

    It is known to have participated in a similar attack on a Mexican journalist, who reported on corruption by Mexico’s head of state and an unknown target or targets in Kenya…

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