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Open mike 27/03/2020

Written By: - Date published: 7:00 am, March 27th, 2020 - 166 comments
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166 comments on “Open mike 27/03/2020”

  1. georgecom 1

    It seems there are different opinions regarding what people can and cannot do during this next month. Are we to stay at home, are we in isolation or is it even a curfew as the Stuff editorial called it this morning. My view, there is no curfew. There is nothing meaning I have to be home at a certain time of day or the like, what I am doing is isolating myself from other people to limit the spread of the corona virus. If I go for a 4 hour walk through my city and avoid other people that is fine, main point is isolation. If I chose to grab a fishing line and spend the day on the banks of a quiet river fishing with no one else around me thats fine as well. Just avoid other people. I understand the need for police to have the ability to ensure people are isolating, eg if I organised a game of football with mates at the local park that would not be isolation, as well as monitor security of property and assets, no issue with that. I would not expect any one to raise significant concerns about me fishing for half a day in isolation though, should I choose to do such. Common sense should prevail.

    • I Feel Love 1.1

      It does seem like the cops have a different view as yours was my view as well. Even cops pulling over ppl to ask what they're doing seems a bit much, I'm not under house arrest. This will only work if we still have some freedom to move, I live alone, share a couple kids, we need fresh air.

    • observer 1.2

      " If I go for a 4 hour walk through my city and avoid other people that is fine, main point is isolation. If I chose to grab a fishing line and spend the day on the banks of a quiet river fishing with no one else around me thats fine as well."

      Second example – fair enough. That would probably be isolated even in normal times (assuming it's a rural river).

      First example – not really. If a 4 hour walk in a city is OK because the streets are deserted, then it is OK for all of us, and so the city streets are no longer deserted. Occasional contact would build up, people linger, touch things etc.

      Some exercise and fresh air is necessary. But it's a very small sacrifice to limit it.

      • Wayne 1.2.1

        Yes, the walks, bike rides etc are supposed to be local. But it is not clear what local is. For instance I live in Bayswater, a peninsula with about 400 households. Is that my local, or is it Bayswater/Devonport, where the supermarket is?

        Quite a few people swimming and kayaking in Ngataringa Bay, which is fine. The Bay is only used by local residents and is relatively enclosed, so very safe.

        • Anne 1.2.1.1

          I have concluded 'local' means anywhere between Takapuna North and Devonport.

          That will enable me to pick up my fortnightly supply of snapper from the Takapuna fish shop (fresher than the supermarkets), shop spasmodically at either Hauraki Countdown or Devonport New World whichever takes my fancy. I can take my car for a walk around the streets inadvertently ending up on Maungauika (North Head) or other such places…

          Oh noes, I suppose the fish shop is closed. 😯

          • Carolyn_Nth 1.2.1.1.1

            I live alone, am 70 years old, and have a throat infection.  I am in Mt Eden, and my only relative in Auckland is a nephew on the North Shore.  He is planning to buy some groceries for me and do a contactless delivery.

            I thought this was OK as long as he doesn't come inside, and we maintain the 2 meter distance between us when he delivers stuff.

            We decided I'll email him my shopping list which he will also have a copy of to present to any cops that pull him over while driving to my place.

            • Anne 1.2.1.1.1.1

              I have a mild throat infection which I'm keeping at bay with Strepsils lozenges. That is why I wear a mask if I have to leave my home.

              • Carolyn_Nth

                Ah.  OK.  I most likely have strep throat (bacterial infection – white spots on my tonsils).  Because we are in unusual times, the GP prescribed antibiotics over the phone on Monday, and told me to self-isolate, just in case it's mild Covid-19.

                At the same time she booked me in for a flu jab next Tuesday, to a session for "well people".  Sick people attend during a different session.  So I think she expects me to be recovered by Tuesday, unless I notify them otherwise.

                • Rosemary McDonald

                  Taking my morning beverage out on my son's front doorstep earlier I was invited to participate in an informal neighbourhood gathering.  Standing in driveways speaking loud enough to be heard.

                  One neighbour (looks well into her eighties) went for her schedule flu shot yesterday.  The nurse came out to their car to stick 'em.

                  Comvita propolis lozenges and lysosomal vitamin C for tonsillitis. I am blessed with enormous tonsils and hitherto have only ever had infections in one of them at a time. Barbed wire in the throat and generally feeling like garbage.

                  The last time I was afflicted it was cheaper to buy the vitamin c( the lysosomal stuff is truly disgusting)  than go to an after hours clinic. The comvita lozenges are always in my first aid kit.

                  BTW.  Friends living in Wuhan continued their marathon running practise for the first few weeks of their lockdown.  Now running in their apartment.  7kms he did the other day.  

                  They were also saying that hospitals are using high dose vitamin C IV for patients combined with traditional Chinese medicine.  They also are vigorously encouraging mask wearing and hand washing and decontamination when returning home from work.

                  • Carolyn_Nth

                    Interesting.  I will phone my GPs' reception before my appointment on Tuesday, and ask whether to wait in the car park.

                    I included vitamin C in my next grocery order – mainly because of problem of keeping up supplies of fresh fruit and veggies.  I've also ordered some frozen veggies as back-up, but think they have diminished vitamin C content.

                    I waited a week with my sore throat before ringing my GP.  It didn't clear.  Also, the white spots on tonsils usually means strep throat & requires antibiotics.

                  • Carolyn_Nth

                    Great about the doorstep communications in your street.  I just got a phone call from my GPs' receptionist.

                    They have run out of flu jab stock, and the ETA for next batch is about mid to end April.  Those already booked in will be top of the list when they arrive, and they will let me know.

                    Had a good chat with receptionist.  Flu shots in car parks are only for those who have someone with them, because there's a 5 minute wait time before the person jabbed can drive.  Otherwise, the jab is given in the surgery, and the jabee must wait there for 5 minutes before leaving.

                    She said I could phone them when I arrive in the car park, and they will come out and get me when the nurse is ready.

          • Wayne 1.2.1.1.2

            Anne,

            I think that be a too big for "local". It is beyond what just about anyone would do for a walk. Takapuna North to Devonport is over 10km, and encompasses around 30,000 people.

            I reckon the biggest you could do is Bayswater/Devonport, or Hauraki/Takapuna. Both areas are well under half the size of Takapuna North to Devonport. Both have supermarkets within them. So whichever of those areas you live in, you would have to stay within that area. At least that is my view. And there may well be a view that Bayswater/Devonport is too big, except for the fact the supermarket is in Devonport.

            • Anne 1.2.1.1.2.1

              I was being tongue in cheek Wayne. Carving out a nice big slice of "local" to accommodate my personal inclinations. Since the Takapuna Fish shop is likely closed I'm happy to reduce the size to Devonport/Bayswater. 🙂

              I live in Belmont and have a nephew a stones throw away in Bayswater who I can call upon at any time.

              • In Vino

                For what it is worth, Anne, I personally have found those Strepsil lozenges pretty damned useless (to quote Blinglish..)   I always get best fix by regular, deep gargling with salt and water  –  much more effective, much quicker cure. (Just avoid swallowing…)

                • Anne

                  Thanks for the reminder. It's what we used to do in the "good old days".

                • Cinny

                  Hehehe when Grandma was alive and I had a bad cold in my twenties she told me to do the salt water gargle.

                  I rang her back afterwards and said…. Grandma, that made me throw up.

                  She laughed and said, yes dear, and did it get all the phlem off your chest.

                  Yes it did Grandma, but you could have warned me.

                  If I had warned you dear you would not have done it, now do you feel better.

                  Yes Grandma, thank you (she was still laughing, bless her).

                • patricia

                  Same In Vino.  Use as a preventative when others have a sore throat as well.

              • Wayne

                Yes, that is what I thought where you live, Belmont, but wasn't quite sure.

      • Anne 1.2.2

         If a 4 hour walk in a city is OK because the streets are deserted, then it is OK for all of us, and so the city streets are no longer deserted. Occasional contact would build up, people linger, touch things etc.

        Yes, I think that is what the police are concerned about. Once they are certain everyone is on the same page and knows they have to stick with it, then we can expect the police to step back. If they're still 'over zealous' in two weeks time, then we can let them know to keep their sticky beaks out of our business. 😉 

    • Fireblade 1.3

      Stay home unless you genuinely have to go to the supermarket, pharmacy or doctor. It's not a fucking holiday. Don't fuck with people lives. angry

      • Anne 1.3.1

        Don't think anyone is suggesting we do otherwise Fireblade. But we do have to get some fresh air from time to time. Car batteries will go flat if they don't get an occasional little workout. Basics will need to be purchased from time to time.  For instance, I have an appointment for my flu jab this arvo and I intend to use the occasion to give my car a wee run around the local streets there and back.

        None of that is fucking with people's lives. And I wear a good sized mask.

        • Carolyn_Nth 1.3.1.1

          Yes.  i also have an appointment for a flu jab on Tuesday.  Will drive to the GPs, and clear my PO Box at the same time.

          Where did you get the mask?  Is it an n95 one?

          • Anne 1.3.1.1.1

            I picked up the last 4 from a chemist in Devonport. There's no brand name or type on it. It has a clear perspex piece at the top so the eyes are protected too.   

            • Carolyn_Nth 1.3.1.1.1.1

              OK.  I assume all the staff at my GPs will have masks. I will disinfect my hands after I leave, and after I leave the Post Office.

            • Carolyn_Nth 1.3.1.1.1.2

              In her presser this arvo, the PM said there's a company in NZ that makes n95 masks.  These are recommended protection for Covid-19, but not the same as the surgical ones used by doctors, etc.

              The government is taking over organising distribution of the n95 masks so the company can focus on producing as many as possible.

      • Fireblade 1.3.2

        My sister-in-law is an infectious diseases specialist at Waikato Hospital. I know what they are planning for and what they expect to happen. It is truly horrifying. Stay home.

      • Alice Tectonite 1.3.3

        Actual official government advice (emphasis added):

        You should stay at home as much as possible, except for going for a walk or picking up essentials.

        covid19.govt.nz

         

  2. Andre 2

    On the idea that authoritarian states are better at managing a crisis like COVID-19: nonsense. The important factor is state capacity and competence.

    https://www.vox.com/2020/3/26/21184238/coronavirus-china-authoritarian-system-democracy

  3. dv 3

    RE reported cases

    USA at 79000  is just below china (81000) and Italy (80000)

    USA will go top in the next day or so.

     

    And an Article in the Herald about the difference between the muddle responses from scum and the clear communication by Jacinta

    Covid 19 coronavirus: Sam Clench – Clarity is the quality that makes Jacinda Ardern so effective in a crisis

    Well worth a read

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12320229

    • dv 3.1

      Oops Scomo, not scum. 

      Ans USA is now above Italy!!!!

      • Macro 3.1.1

        Well done the USA! Bigger population than Italy but way smaller than China. With he who shall not be mentioned in charge. A true catastrophe awaits. He is such a great Christian he is even giving up the nations gparents for lent. 😕

        • Cinny 3.1.1.2

          And trump did a presser bragging they are doing more tests than South Korea, like it's a competition. 

          Mum reminded me the reason trump was calling it a hoax the other week is because of the mighty dollar and he is only concerned that the virus will cause him to lose hotel revenue.

          • Macro 3.1.1.2.1

            Mum reminded me the reason trump was calling it a hoax the other week is because of the mighty dollar and he is only concerned that the virus will cause him to lose hotel revenue.

            Yep. For Trump, the measure of his success, is the performance of the share market. He was having nightmares over the past week as every day brought  new record lows. It is for that reason, and that alone, that he has urged the agreement of the new trillion dollar rescue package, and the reason why he talks about return to work by Easter, despite the fact that the US is now in a full blown pandemic. That has seemingly calmed the dealers nerves. But it wont stop the spread of COVID-19, and I would think that as the virus continues to rage even further into the American population, the true reality of what this most incompetent administration has left undone, will be obvious even to the most rednecked Trumpkin.

    • A 3.2

      Was just about to post this link from news (dot) com.au

      There is what I believe to be a historic quote from ScoMo

      “You’re suggesting I should close down businesses where there’s no medical advice that they should,” he told reporters at a press conference on Wednesday.

      “I don’t understand why we would cause that harm to a business and all their workers and their livelihoods for the sake of some sort of message convenience.

      “I think that would be quite reckless.”

      Australia’s newly appointed Deputy Chief Medical Officer, Dr Nick Coatsworth, backed up the Prime Minister on the ABC this morning.

      “To say that we’ve gone light and slow would be completely inaccurate,” Dr Coatsworth said.

      “The measures that we’ve got in at the moment are unprecedented. The impact they’re going to have on individual families is unprecedented.”

      Good to see NSW is ready to lockdown anyway. 

       

       

      • RedBaronCV 3.2.1

        Scomo is like Boris Johnson and Trump. Everybody else ( states etc) do the heavy lifting closing as much as they have the authority to do then they come in after the event. 

    • Dawn Trenberth 3.3

      USA now top on 83,000 cases.

  4. Herodotus 4

    Woken up this morning to a Tui calling out, then on an olive tree the return of some Kererū. 

    I know that the pūriri berries are available, but with all this peace, Tui and Kererū have already returned (or are more noticeable) same when went for a walk last night.

     

    • mac1 4.1

      Were they already there and we couldn't hear them fot the noise and the rush? I too heard a tui today but I quite often do being retired and on the edge of town. In Cook's journals were references to the noise of our birdlife as he sailed offshore! Maybe they had better hearing then, too, and a quiet ship but events like our lockdown might point out to us some of the things we do miss in the noise and rush of 'normal' life.

  5. A 5

    Somehow I missed this…the PM being her fabulous self on FB on the night just before the lockdown began. 

    • Macro 5.1

      Thanks for that link A. An object lesson in kindness, understanding, and communication. 

      We are so fortunate to have such a leader at this time.

  6. Sabine 6

    on the coming recession and a third of the country unemployed. 

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12320069

    Economists are predicting that hundreds of thousands of New Zealanders could be left without jobs due to the impact of the lockdown and coronavirus.

    Senior economists are predicting unemployment to reach 15 per cent, with one warning it could even hit 30 per cent as Covid-19 brings the economy to a shuddering halt.

    Another said the sudden stop to most sectors would make the pandemic far more economically-damaging than even the Global Financial Crisis, while another one described Covid-19's economic impact as "an everywhere, everything, everyone all at once shock"..

    or from the US

    https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/03/quantifying-coming-recession/608443/

    State jobless filings are growing geometrically, a signal of how the national numbers will change when we have them. Last Monday, Colorado had 400 people apply for unemployment insurance. This Tuesday: 6,800. California has seen its daily filings jump from 2,000 to 80,000. Oregon went from 800 to 18,000. In Connecticut, nearly 2 percent of the state’s workers declared that they were newly jobless on a single day. Many other states are reporting the same kinds of figures.

    These numbers are subject to sharp changes; things like large plant closures lead them to jump and fall and jump and fall. But for them to rise so precipitously, across all of the states? To stay high? That is new. The economy is not tipping into a jobs crisis. It is exploding into one. Given the trajectory of state reports, it is certain that the country will set a record for new jobless claims next week, not only in raw numbers but also in the share of workers laid off. The total is expected to be in the range of 1.5 million to 2.5 million, and to climb from there.

     

    I do hope that when the Government has bailed out everyone they deem 'solvent enough' to be 'bail out worthy' someone will tell them that no one can survive on the wage subsidy and no one can survive on unemployment figures. And maybe now its time to help HE TANGATA, and i hope they have a few more ideas then just throwing 20$ bills at the poor and the poor working class in the hope that that will shut us up for a week or several. And i hope that they are not deducting Student loans either from their hand outs to the people. 

    He aha te mea nui o te ao, he tangata he tangata he tangata.

    • The Al1en 6.1

      no one can survive on the wage subsidy

      That's blatantly not true.

      • Sabine 6.1.1

        electricity bills – 25 pw

        gas bills  (if applicable) 

        water bills / waste water – 15 pw

        telephone/internet – 25 pw

        line charges (if applicable and rural it is)

        mortgage (rent)  – 400 pw 

        car payments – 50 pw

        car insurance – 15 pw

         household insurance – 15 pw

        Student loans (if applicable) 

        an loans that come with a weekly bill

        please explain to me how people can manage the bills and food on 350 – 580 per week, over several weeks. 

        while people won't be starving they also won't be 'surviving' i.e. managing to keep up all he payments.

        And please don't come with the refrain of 'please negotiate' with your suppliers, because everyone who is currently on this wage subsidy will be negotiating, like the good little trooper they are. 

        As for have no options ot spend? There are people that will order in their groceries, their medication, and as i said, you still have all your bills to pay in full as non of these companies such as spark / electricity companies/line companies/water care etc have dropped any of their prices. 

        so yeah, you do the math and you ask yourself how long you can do this before you can't do it anymore. 

        So feel free to tell me where i am blatantly wrong. As far as it goes, i have been on this for a while now and i have not once said something that was 'blatantly' wrong. 

        you can have a play here to see how far you get on the subsidy. https://www.newzealandnow.govt.nz/living-in-nz/money-tax/comparable-living-costs
        mortgage costs / rent from here
        https://www.interest.co.nz/property/home-loan-affordability

        • The Al1en 6.1.1.1

          I earn less than the wage subsidy every week. I pay tax and student loan. 

          I am not dead or in the poor house.

          "no one can survive on the wage subsidy" is still blatantly not true.

          • Sabine 6.1.1.1.1

            if you consider 'surviving' as keeping what you have and hopefully have a job, then maybe you are correct.

             if you consider surviving as the action of paying your bills, not accruing anymore debt, not defaulting on rent payments/ mortgage payments and loosing your belongings in the long term then i am correct. 

            so no i am not 'blatantly' wrong.  Nor are you 'absolutely correct'. 

            But i am liking the comments of "Doing good. Everything (me) is gonna be OK." 

            🙂 

            • The Al1en 6.1.1.1.1.1

              I haven't said that for some it will be sustainable, but I am 100% correct in saying your assertion "no one can survive on the wage subsidy" is blatantly untrue as I am living proof of it being done on less. I have done this for a number of years with no debts other than a mortgage.

              • Sabine

                again, 

                as i said, we are disagreing on the meaning of 'surviving.

                so let me rephrase this, while no one will outright starve on this subsidy, many will not survive. 

                feel better now? And please feel free to discuss the actual point i made. Namely that people will not be able to keep up with payments, that many will not go back to jobs, and that they will have no means to pay back any debt accrued under lock down and the very potential extention of lock down period once we realise taht 4 weeks may not be enough.  And that many many people will lose what little they have. And how to deal with a potential wave of unemployed and unhoused people to add to our current unemployed and unhoused people. 

                 

                • The Al1en

                  No, that's still not acceptable to counter "no one can survive on the wage subsidy" when they can and, as I've clearly stated, do.

                  • Sabine

                    and you have still to demonstrate how people will 'survive' their regular bill payments. 

                    but then you won't right, because all you want it to tell me i am incorrect, and my friend, i am not. 

                    People will 'not survive' this. They will not starve in their houses, but they will not 'survive' this. 

                    From the Merriam Webster (and if you have an issue with their interpretation please take it up with them) 

                    surviving

                    [Deleted long list of synonyms and antonyms. One (master) link suffices: https://www.merriam-webster.com/thesaurus/surviving – Incognito]

                    • The Al1en

                      Despite the long post that says nothing, you're assertions that "Because no one can 'survive' on this without defaulting and declaring bankrputcy in the coming month" and "no one can survive on the wage subsidy" are still blatantly not true.

                      Given that I take home, after deductions, a mere $380pw in wages and get a $70 accommodation supplement, I pay my mortgage, my rates, my utilities, petrol, wof, reggo and internet with mobile and home line included, and have done for a number of years.

                      Now while this doesn't play nicely with your apocalyptic narrative, there are many many people like me, and the beneficiaries on even less, who are managing and not destitute. It's not easy, compromises have to be made, like I don't buy boutique chocolates for example, but I bought a 4k car on payments without forgoing the basics.

                      People with big mortgages will get the mortgage holiday for 6 months, which I won't, so that biggest chunk won't come out of the wage guarantee payment. It will be hard, really hard for some over extended and living beyond their means, and will no doubt result in some going under financially, but to be so finite in saying people won't survive is not only alarmist, but a joke slogan to those who cope and manage with low incomes on a weekly basis. 

          • Foreign waka 6.1.1.1.2

            TA if you have to maintain a household and kids than no. If you are single person sharing a flat or rent in a rural town and study via online options, its possible.

            Its a matter of degree and what responsibility has to be met.

        • bill 6.1.1.2

          please explain to me how people can manage the bills and food on 350 – 580 per week, over several weeks. 

          Crap, innit? But if you talk to an unemployed person near you, they might be kind enough to tell you how they have survived for months or years at the lower end of your weekly income band.

          • Sabine 6.1.1.2.1

            But that is the point, they don't, they hang on. And for once i will also add that our abysmal suicide levels may actually due to this. 

            I have argued many many times that we need better benefits, lower rents, more regulation in the housing market, that we need a CGT and tha we need to raise taxes on the higher end, and even now, we still refuse to do that.  I have not been kind to he current government for a while now, and one reason is that they literally did nothing of substance but are simply handing out band aids that don't stick well enough to cover the oozing wounds. 

            I have friends who are in that boat, and like the Ex – Co Leader from the Greens Metiria Turei admitted non of them survives without 'cheating'. Be that working on the low end, prostitution, or outright lying to Winz, or if they have family that still can support them. 

            And if you read the article in the Herald today ( i linked to hat earlier) we can expect a huge number of jobs to be gone for a long long time. there might be a pandemic economy for a while but i would venture that non of that will really benefit people at the lower end. 

            so really, this should be discussed, and maybe now that it actually affects people that usually have no issue making and spending money, it will affect how we measure the cost of living for unemployed and beneficiaries. Because no one can 'survive' on this without defaulting and declaring bankrputcy in the coming month (plural) to come.  

            • The Al1en 6.1.1.2.1.1

              Because no one can 'survive' on this without defaulting and declaring bankrputcy in the coming month. 

              That's blatantly not true.

              • Sabine

                I am not the only one saying this.  So really, many many will not 'survive' this. I have a comment in moderation (i have no idea how to unlink links – with the defintion of Merriam Webster and hopefully you will be able to agree with their many meanings of 'surviving') https://www.merriam-webster.com/thesaurus/surviving

                https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12320069

                Economists are predicting that hundreds of thousands of New Zealanders could be left without jobs due to the impact of the lockdown and coronavirus.

                Senior economists are predicting unemployment to reach 15 per cent, with one warning it could even hit 30 per cent as Covid-19 brings the economy to a shuddering halt.

                Another said the sudden stop to most sectors would make the pandemic far more economically-damaging than even the Global Financial Crisis, while another one described Covid-19's economic impact as "an everywhere, everything, everyone all at once shock"..

                • The Al1en

                  Yeah yeah 🙄 Direct contrary evidence from the poorly/low paid or benefit recipients says you're talking bollocks for the fun of it.

                  • Sabine

                    nope. that is not what i said, and you know that. 

                    My friend too is a beneficiary, and she is 'not surviving'. She is simply not dying in a ditch. There is a difference between the two. 

                    And fwiw, i don't think that anyone on unemployemnt or the benefit gets anywhere near enough to 'survive'. And i also have been on record for this on the Standard.

                    As i often say, Benefits and Unemployment money in NZ is too much to die of and too little to live of. 

                    • The Al1en

                      You said "Because no one can 'survive' on this without defaulting and declaring bankrputcy in the coming month" and "no one can survive on the wage subsidy". I've shown that to be a fatalistic untruth, as many people already live on less per week.

                      Maybe you shouldn't write in such absolutes.

                    • Sabine

                      The Al1en, 

                      i am happy with what i said. I linked to the thesaurus of the Merriam Webster Dictionary and they agree with me. 

                      So thanks for your concern, but yeah, nah nah. And people will not be able 'to survive'. 

                      Luckily it seems that the Banks are finally coming to play and allow for a full mortgage holiday for people to apply for. And if that is so, i hope that the government will use their emergency powers to simply declare eviction illegal during the time of the pandemic. 

                      And i do hope that the government will come around to increase benefits and unemployment benefits so that you too (and everyone on a benefit) can do more then just hang on by a thread (another way of saying 'survive'') but actually 'survive'. 

                      and that is all i have to say to that. You can continue to be pedantic if it helps you get through the day. 

                       

                    • The Al1en

                      It's not pedantry. Having already given my income details up thread, I'll happily put my experience as a low wage earner and what passes for surviving means over whatever dictionary definition you need to call on to back up what can only describe as an untruthful, panic induced absolute.

            • bill 6.1.1.2.1.2

              We're on the same page.

              Look. I know cafes and what not are closed, but I wonder how many people – those now on an employer administered wage subsidy – grasp 'the reality as was' for thousands, of a 'flat white' from a cafe being a treat and not a convenience?

              Or put another way. I wonder how many people will read this comment and reflect that the thought had never crossed their mind?

              Suicide rates will most assuredly rise. But I suspect the biggest rise will occur in formerly cloistered sections of the population.

               

               

          • Wayne 6.1.1.2.2

            Most people will also have an Accommodation Supplement on top of those low wage figures if they have high rent or mortgage. And if they have children will also have Working for Families.

            • bill 6.1.1.2.2.1

              Tell me Wayne. The cap on Accommodation Supplement – what is it again? Remind everyone here, lest they think it is any way a serious measure intended to mitigate the financial stress of high rents.

              And Working for Families extended to unemployed people did it? okay. How much does an unemployed person receive from that quarter?

    • Janet 6.2

      Don,t forget, not much opportunity to spend it in Lockdown .The dollars should go a lot further .

      • Cinny 6.2.1

        Unfortunately all the specials have been removed from the supermarket.  This will make life a bit more challenging for some

        • Sabine 6.2.1.1

          on a food group that i am on, someone posted  the picture of a cauliflower for 12.99$ the piece. 

          i guess that can't be regulated either. 

          • Cinny 6.2.1.1.1

            Fork!!!

            I was too scared to go to the panic stricken supermarket on Wednesday and ended up paying $12 for a pack of sanitary pads at the garage.

            But $13 for a cauli, what the actual fork? 

            Hope that person reports the seller, that's price gouging and Jacinda won't stand for it.

            Edit…
            “The Prime Minister has warned retailers not to price gouge just to make a buck, even asking for names of specific shops to be handed over to her when it’s been mentioned in press conferences. ”
            https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2020/03/coronavirus-how-to-dob-in-price-gouging-retailers-during-the-lockdown.html

            • Sabine 6.2.1.1.1.1

              Nah, thats regular price for cauliflower – its not in the season, so its hot house, all the  farmer markets are closed, a lot of the small food supply shops are closed, and this is now what people have to pay. 

              as for reporting? The government has emergency powers and could regulate. 

              I mean we are all already spending our time negotiating with our suppliers and financial advisors and now we should report stupid food prices? these  are the stupid food prices that we have on any regular day. 
              i am not a fan of the Mad Butcher, but for many families that is the only meat they buy because its cheap. And the mad butcher is not considered ‘essential’. Go figure.

      • Andre 6.2.2

        not much opportunity to spend it

        Yeah, all those millenials frittering away vast sums on smashed avocado toast and barista coffee should come out of this with their first home deposits all sorted and ready to go!

      • bill 6.2.3

        not much opportunity to spend it in Lockdown

        Essentials can be had. Us unemployed have only ever really had access to essentials…and we have struggled/survived.

        Time to roll out a recurring emergency universal payment that's set at a level well above benefit rates.

  7. joe90 7

    Another candidate.

     

    #Guillotine

    • Macro 7.1

      With Trump's swift action and bold leadership, the US has managed to limit projected deaths from COVID-19 to a maximum of 1 per person!

      • The Al1en 7.1.1

        I read a telling joke about the lack of testing among the poor in the face of $3000 charges.

        How do you know if you have covid 19? Cough in a rich persons face and wait for their test results to come back.

        • Macro 7.1.1.1

          Yeah I've seen that one too. In such circumstances a  little humour is a valuable thing. We are very lucky to be living here with a responsible govt. I pass on my hopes and wishes to my on-line friends in the US, because they fear for their lives right now.

  8. Been skimming thru r/conspiracy, a couple of gems amidst the dross:

    https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/fo4m4s/chinese_virus_is_getting_exposed/

    https://youtu.be/pmSG8vfhroY David Icke on COVID-19

  9. Morrissey 9

    Fust Never Sleeps

    We're in lockdown, but that democracy-hating lout D.P. Farrar is still posting up his nonsense….

    https://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2020/03/meet_your_future_voters.html

    • The Penguin lookalike and part time paedophile impersonator is also calling for the re-opening of butcher's shops. I note that the CEO of the Mad Butcher has admitted that the chain tried to exploit the situation:

      "Based on the fact that we got told we were essential services, everybody was panic-buying up until that time and we panic-bought as well from our supplier. Our sales were up 60 per cent week-on-week, so we panic-bought as well because we had to keep serving all these customers."

      Happily, the CEO has personally added to the available meat supply:

      "Mad Butcher chief executive Michael Morton said on Friday that he was gutted …"

       

      • Sabine 9.1.1

        actually i would call that 'stocking up'. And yes, they should be essential services as many on the low incomes only shop at the local mad butchers. They can't afford the regular $ 20 – 25 kg for fatty mince at countdown or new world or pak n save. 

      • Carolyn_Nth 9.1.2

        In her press stand up yesterday, Ardern was asked about keeping open butchers and fruit and veg shops, and pointing out they have a lot of stock that will go to waste.

        Ardern said that no food in NZ needs to go to waste.  They can find and supply people who need it without opening the shops to the general public. 

        Think about it – kidscan, people in quarantine or self isolated as they arrive in the country etc.  I'd have thought the govt would ensure shops are paid something for their unused food stocks.  They just need to get in touch with the relevant govt dept or authorities.

        PS: Ardern said opening up all these small shops would have an increase in people walking around in different locations and they are trying to limit that.

        Also, it must be easy to monitor and regulate the general public’s use of supermarkets than across a load of small shops.

        • bill 9.1.2.1

          Y'know…if I'm asymptomatic and go to the supermarket, then I can infect someone who lives many km away from me. Whereas, if only small local stores/shops were open to the public…

          • Carolyn_Nth 9.1.2.1.1

            Does it matter that much how far away the supermarket is?  And Ardern also said it's putting more workers at risk to open al those shops.

            She said that at just before 40minutes here.  been trying to find the other comment she made about it – maybe between about 27 minutes and 34 minutes.

            • bill 9.1.2.1.1.1

              <i>Does it matter that much how far away the supermarket is? </i>

              Not so much the distance per se, more the catchment population/area. My local shop essentially covers a few thousand people within a few km. The nearest supermarket covers all of Dunedin (and then some).

              So, if I spread the virus, I'd have thought he job of tracing contacts becomes somewhat onerous and sketchy if looking at a supermarket with large numbers of people from all around the show, compared to tracing through a fairly discrete population in a fairly well defined or contained geographical area.

              edit – as for numbers of workers being exposed – I dunno the numbers. But if supermarkets were treated as ‘warehouses’ to supply outlying shops, then I’m not exactly sure why it ought to be assumed more workers get exposed.

              • Carolyn_Nth

                OK.  Found the bit in the above video where Ardern talks about this. It starts about 29 mins 44 secs.  She says there doesn't need to be any wastage of food and that there are plenty of people who need it. She said that's she's sure they can use food that can no longer be sold across the counter.

                She also says, for small towns they need to make sure people have access to the same essential services and foods that other parts of the country do. So in those areas where there are no supermarkets, then special consideration is given to dairies, superettes, etc.

                • bill

                  Maybe we're talking at slight cross purposes. I'm not suggesting "all" food outlets be open. However, to minimise contact, make tracing easier and potential flare-ups more contained and local, shut down supermarkets wherever possible. Turn them into "supply hubs" for (designated if need be) local outlets.

                  What's more cautious and liable to aid containment? A 1000 people coming backwards and forwards from 'all around' to one supermarket, or 100 people going to and fro 10 different dairies? (With the 'back-shop' of the supermarket operating just as before, but the front end open to retailers, not the public)

                  I'd have thought the latter scenario, where feasible, was the more prudent one.

                   

                   

                   

                  • Carolyn_Nth

                    Good point.  I have heard someone, maybe the PM or Bloomfield, say that it's better for only 1 person from each household be the one to go to the supermarket. And also, someone, maybe a supermarket CEO, say it's better to do a fairly big supermarket shop with each visit, rather than keep going back for small amounts of groceries. 

                    Supermarkets seem to have settled down now and are not being over-run with shoppers.

                    I think it maybe that at them moment the govt is going for simplicity, and as much as possible across the board regulations re-shopping, etc. 

                    They do seem to have some leeway for special circumstances for small communities.  They may fine tune it more a they see how things are playing out.

                • The problem is getting the food distributed to those who need it.  Many foodbanks have closed.  So fresh fruit and vegetables just going to waste.

      • joe90 9.1.3

        Two days in and his morans are losing their shit.

      • KJT 9.1.4

        I too, assumed butchers would be allowed to stay open.

        After all they are solely food sellers.

        Dairy's are.

        Stocking up in anticipation of a rush, seems to be sensible, rather than necessarily greedy.

        Being stuck at home having only countdown mince, should be a human rights violation. 😁

         

    • Rapunzel 9.2

      Have never posted on that site but if did or someone does they might like to tell Farrar if he doesn't already know that the National Party change of  legislation applies only to those physically detained. Those serving a sentence of home detention of any length and those are often fraudsters are free to vote in an election by attendance at a polling booth they are not removed from the roll – so the whole thing was hypocritical from the outset

    • Sabine 10.1

      Grab em by the pussy. 

      Its ok if you do it if you are a celebrety, they just let you do it. 

      whats good for the goose is good for he gander, and besides boys will be boys, and nothing can be done. 

      How is he orange one doing? 

      • peterh 10.1.1

        Almost all the country are POSITIVE and then we have Sabine what a pain in the arse

      • adam 10.1.2

        Come on Sabine we all know trump is a fucking arsehole.

        Show some respect to this women can you? 

        • In Vino 10.1.2.1

          I have time for Sabine, and can see she has a point to make.

          Adam, what point are you trying to make?  'Women' is plural. 'This' is singular. I agree about Trump, but what your other sentence about respect means I have no idea.

          • adam 10.1.2.1.1

            I got my spelling wrong. I apologise.

            FFS the issue is Biden sexually assaulted Tara Reade

            Or did the russians do it?  Or trump?  Anybody but Biden I guess? 

            Can you explain why my misspelling is the end of the world In Vino? Because I'm totally confused , do we do arguing over bad spelling now and avoid talking about sexual assault? 

            Or is it acceptable to have people run for office, to be like this as long as they are not trump? 

            Because I'm of the school of thought – Fuck all the rapist and men who use power for sexual advantage – be they left wing or right. 

             

             

    • bill 10.2

      There's a lengthy interview given by her on The Hill. fck it. link.

  10. weka 11

    Is NZ still at 2 cases of known community transmission?

  11. Observer Tokoroa 13

    Guilty – a new thought about Evil

    I realise that we have quite a large number of prisons…

    But Punishment is not given to any of our criminals.

    The absence of Punishment hands out an unrepentant easy existance- and leads to endless recidivism.

    I think our ancestors got things right, when they issued a matching punishment for the Crime committed.

    What is your view ? But please don't tell me that being in prison is a hardship in Aotearoa.

    • Cinny 13.1

      Where are you going with this please Observer Tokoroa?

      • Incognito 13.1.1

        Back to the Dark Ages.

      • Brigid 13.1.2

        To join Brian the Bish? Maybe she wants a Harley too.

      • Observer Tokoroa 13.1.3

        Hi Cinny

        I am suggesting that if a crime is committed the consequence should be Punishment.

        That was the case until very recent times. Well into the 1960's.

        Why do think crime is not a problem ?  May I ask

         

         

        • Cinny 13.1.3.1

          observer tokoroa, Your logical fallacy is ……. a loaded question

          A question that had a presumption built into it so that it couldn't be answered without appearing guilty.

          A logical fallacy is a flaw in reasoning.

          Logical fallacies are like tricks or illusions of thought, and they’re often very sneakily used by politicians and the media to fool people.

        • KJT 13.1.3.2

          Have you seen the studies about how people become criminals?

          Or the evidence from countries, that are "soft on crime" that have much less crime and recidivism?

          If you really want to make people safer you address the causes of crime before it occurs. Not enact revenge, afterwards.

           

           

    • joe90 13.2

      But please don't tell me that being in prison is a hardship in Aotearoa.

      Have you been imprisoned in Aotearoa?

      • Observer Tokoroa 13.2.1

        Hi Joe

        I haven't been imprisoned. But I had to go through a lot of internal Gates and play rugby with a mob of hard running badies every so often.

        That was Paparua Christchurch

        As Morrissey the Saint says  below:  my Rugby is ignorant.

        • Morrissey 13.2.1.1

          Ian Smith is a rugby ignoramus. I was commenting not on your rugby knowledge, but your astonishing ignorance about the reality of imprisonment.

    • Morrissey 13.3

      But please don't tell me that being in prison is a hardship in Aotearoa.

      ????

      What an ignorant comment.

    • Gabby 13.4

      Can't you HANDLE the troot?

  12. Andre 14

    Y'all-Qaeda rides again!

    To defend their First Amendment right to peaceably assemble and spread coronavirus.

    https://www.motherjones.com/coronavirus-updates/2020/03/self-quarantine-orders-meet-the-right-wing-militia-movement/

    • dv 14.1

      Andre you are aware that Trump has a breakthru treatment for the virus that limits the deaths to one per person.

       

      • Andre 14.1.1

        I'd expect nothing less than a beautiful solution like that from the stable genius. No doubt it's bigly expensive, so it will be reserved for family, friends and followers. In that order.

  13. Observer Tokoroa 15

    Life of Riley

    Hi

    The Harshness in our prisons is so horrible, that 72% of offenders return to Prison each year.  Happily.

    It costs a minimum $100, 000 dollars a year to keep each criminal Happy.  There is of course, no Punishment in helping the offenders into and out of prison.  Wonderful.

    • Muttonbird 15.1

      It is a terrible indictment on New Zealand housing and social infrastructure that so many men from our poorest communities would rather prison than home.

    • KJT 15.2

      Prison has failed to prevent further crime in 72% of cases, by your own statement.

      In other words as even Bill English admitted, "The prison system is a costly and expensive failure".

      Who would have thought that putting mostly not very bright,, disadvantaged and poorly educated youngsters in prison, results in, better educated in crime, angry and unemployable young men coming out, Eh?

  14. Fireblade 16

    National Party cheerleaders in despair can bitch and whine to their bumbling and irrelevant leader using Facebook Messenger. Please note: Soimun's video is subtitled so everyone can understand what he's saying.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/simonjbridges/status/1242984359402942464?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet

  15. RedbaronCV 17

    Grant still doesn't seem to be getting it.

    He now seems to have sort of belatedly pivoted towards the Danish model for employment but talks about it being a high trust enviroment so we have to trust employers. – Same ones that have been screwing the workforce for years – well good luck with that. Same government who made all their contractors redundant a few days before lock down.

    He needs to go a lot further than that – companies over a certain size who want subsidies or to make mass redundancies should have to have their applications co signed by any unions on their premises saying that all steps have been taken to consult and make savings elsewhere ( chop high end payroll) .

    As for overseas owned workplaces – a lien over  land buildings and other assets if they try to jump ship.

    Frankly a phone call from a government minister lecturing them doesn't cut it.

    As to the banks and loans. I get that the government doesn't have the resources for this but the rules again need to be tight. These are the banks that couldn't even see a paedophile ring transacting under their noses.

     

    • Muttonbird 17.1

      It's a difficult position. Employers didn't get where they are by being honest. The model is that you screw everyone for maximum profit for yourself. That is the very definition of capitalism. Those that can do it, do it.

      So when a wage subsidy scheme comes along in unprecedented times the very first thing an employer will do is work out how to maximise it for themselves.

      The government will have to adjust constantly to the raiding that most employers will indulge in.

      • RedbaronCV 17.1.1

        Difficult for whom? Yes I agree that is the mode but it doesn't mean that steps should not be taken to deter this type of behaviour.

        But hey over three years labour has done next to nothing to improve the basic lot of waged employees – are they even consulting the trade unions over all this or justt sucking up to the boss class.

        • Muttonbird 17.1.1.1

          I'm saying it's difficult for the Government to second guess self-serving employers in a pandemic situation while trying to look after workers.

          Employers are almost like a virus themselves.

          • RedBaronCV 17.1.1.1.1

            But it doesn't have to be like this .

            These subsidies are in the billions &  if Graant had his wits about him he would chuck $50-$100 million towards  the unions and they could use it to hire lawyers to chase down the employers  that people are complaining about or  have questions about before it puts them out of work..

            Not on a one by one basis or by expecting people to go individually to employment tribunals but on a class action basis-.  plus fund some decent information about peoples rights etc. The game has to change.

            I was looking at that "raise the bar" website which seemed to have solid information well presented. Then I looked down the page and realised there was a bank account there. Felt pretty sad that this absolutely useful activity was being funded by donations from the  low paid . It sucks at every level. 

            And still the top end of town is untouched. Every $20 mill of excess top end wages is 400 $50k p.a jobs.

             

  16. Foreign waka 18

    I get to hear these comments in general discussions:

    1/ we are in a kind of martial law situation and it is OK.

    I think most do not understand what that actually means.When martial law is declared, civil liberties, such as the right to free movement, free speech, protection from unreasonable searches, and habeas corpus laws (protection against illegal confinement, such as holding a person without charges), are suspended.

    2/ you cannot leave the house other than go to the nearest supermarket. 

    3/ having a bb gun is ok and a shot from it will only hurt a little bit (!?)

  17. Macro 19

    If you didn’t catch this on TV this evening
    here it is:
    Brilliant!

  18. The cynic in me thinks that the government has very successfully marginalised Soimun by giving him the 'important' title of chairman of a committee which will have little effect on what happens during the epidemic but will keep him happy (and hopefully out of sight and sound).

    • Fireblade 20.1

      Soimun should be doing something useful like restocking the shelves at his local supermarket.

  19. Bazza64 21

    Muttonbird, you must have had some bad experiences with your employers to hold such an unrealistic view of them. By your reckoning anyone who is an employee & then decides they want to start a business and employee people must then be dishonest.

    Not all employers are bad people, most smaller businesses are just people trying to better themselves in life.

    Sorry that employment for you has left a bitter taste.

    • observer 22.1

      He's alive!

      I was wondering where he'd got to. Good on him for having no truck with the frothing Ardern-haters, at least.

    • Cinny 22.2

      Hard case, who would have thought the leader of national would be tucked away somewhere with his own 0800si.wants2help2 phone number, while nationals most popular leader ever is praising the leader of the opposition. 

      It sure is an interesting moment in NZ's history for so many reasons.

    • RedBaronCV 22.3

      I suspect he is not suffering though. I believe he is still a director of air NZ plus the ANZ bank and possibly others.   Air NZ cut their average director fee from $150k to around $120k  – 15% for a part time job.

      Mostly I feel though that he is just trying to catch some of the positive glow off Jacinda to keep the RW in the frame. I felt he did much the same around 2008 – cosying up to Helen & Micheal Cullen so people would not feel so threatened by NACT and give him the job.

      Personally I see it as pretty manipulative.

  20. Incognito 23

    I’ll bet these people have some good tips on self-isolation and staying in your bubble.

    https://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/station/expeditions/expedition62/index.html

  21. Barfly 24

    I will be posting tomorrow asking for advice and help with a tenancy issue. Please

    help if you can

    Barfly

  22. Eco Maori 26

    Kia Ora Newshub. 

    Yes the days are getting shorter and colder. 

    Awsome getting blood from people who have had the virus to treat the people who have been hit hard by the virus. 

    Ka kite Ano. 

     

     

  23. Eco Maori 27

    Kia Ora Te Ao Maori News. 

    Thanks to all  the health workers running our health care centres and hospitals.

    Its good to see Iwi getting Kai for their Tangata. 

    Iwi contacting their Tangata online is great use the new tool to protect te tangata. 

    Ka kite Ano 

  24. Eco Maori 29

    Kia Ora Newshub. 

    Bullying is not on these people who have the virus have enough stress their is no need to add to it. 

    That's good some supermarket workers getting a 10% pay rise.

    Some people will use any means to hack your lives be careful. 

     

    Ka kite Ano. 

  25. Eco Maori 30

    Kia Ora Te Ao Maori News. 

    Cool the online Facebook Te reo teaching program. It can be good for all tamariki. 

    Puhi Kai ariki looks good organic kia. 

     

    Ka kite Ano. 

     

  26. Eco Maori 31

    Kia Ora Newshub. 

    We need to help our youth get a higher education.

    Can you see the big picture men are making a big MESS of their Country.

    There you go there is something positive out there. 

     

    Some people are good at throwing Crap around. 

    Ka kite Ano 

     

     

     

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  • Speech to Labour Party Congress 2020
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