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Open mike 27/05/2022

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, May 27th, 2022 - 96 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

96 comments on “Open mike 27/05/2022 ”

  1. Ed 1

    The Fabians are running a talk by Matt Robson entitled -‘An Independent Foreign Policy for Aotearoa-New Zealand’ at 5pm today.

    Will be interesting

    • Jenny how to get there 1.1

      Gee Whiz. This long time supporter of bloody wars and invasions will be able to tell us all about some of the benefits of imperialism for the aggressor nation.

      RT – 26 May, 2022 12:41

      HomeBusiness News

      Russia named world’s top wheat exporter

      The country has become the number one supplier to the global market, President Putin says


      Time running out for Ukraine grain exports from blocked seaports

      1 day ago — Before the Russian invasion, Ukraine was seen as the world's breadbasket, exporting 4.5 million tonnes of agricultural produce per month through …

      Ukraine’s Black Sea ports remain blockaded by Russian warships since Moscow’s invasion of Ukraine began on February 24.

      There is now no room to store the country’s next grain harvest and warnings of a global food crisis are growing. Russia and Ukraine together account for nearly one-third of global wheat supplies, while Ukraine is also a major exporter of corn, barley, sunflower oil and rapeseed oil.


      Russia doubles fossil fuel revenues since invasion of Ukraine began

      27/04/2022 — Russia has received about €62bn from exports of oil, gas and coal in the two months since the invasion began, according to an analysis of …


    • Jenny how to get there 1.2

      Considering that there won't be anyone with any actual experience of Ukraine speaking.
      And a disgraceful bunch of crusty old, arrogant, blood-thirsty, know-all, Tanky true-believers in the audience straining to listen through their ear horns to an old political opportunist hack, willing to give them what they want to hear to confirm their dogmatic conspiracy theories.
      Any Ukrainian ex-pat who did turn up, would get shouted down as a Nazi.

  2. Patricia Bremner 2

    Congratulations on the recognition for our PM by Harvard, and on her honorary Doctorate. We are fortunate to have such representation.

    The right will be discombobulated!!

    PM Jacinda Ardern is meeting with President Biden.smiley

    • Ad 2.1

      Both earned on the right political mix of good luck, good timing, and hard policy work.

    • Jenny how to get there 2.2

      Breaking News:

      Prime Minister Ardern to meet with President Biden.

      Wow! Just Wow!

      This proposed meeting was previously described as problematic for a number of reasons, one of which was the Prime Minister's recent bout with Covid-19.

      The significance of this unscheduled meeting, coming as it does in the wake of the latest school shooting cannot be ignored. The comments of our Prime Minister on gun reform yesterday, would not have gone unnoticed in the White House.


      Ardern’s Biden meeting confirmed

      Jacinda Ardern has secured a White House visit with US President Joe Biden. The eleventh-hour programme change will extend the Prime Minister’s time in the US by a few days, writes political editor Jo Moir.


    • Ross 2.3

      The right will be discombobulated!!

      I doubt that.

      Robert Menzies, then Prime Minister of Australia, was invited by Harvard to give a commencement speech in 1960, which he accepted. It has been only 62 years before the New Zealand PM got the same invite. In the meantime, such intellectual heavyweights as Oprah Winfrey and Mark Zuckerberg were given the same opportunity which they duly accepted. 🙂

      • AB 2.3.1

        Correct – but it's clear that the right would have been cock-a-hoop if there had been no meeting. That's why Jason Wells from ZB has been in the US asking what's effectively the same question (is your meeting with president Biden confirmed?) over and over and over – and why the NZ Herald ran a puff piece on Key's meeting with Obama years ago. Such is the desperation of these media outlets to get the Nats elected, that they have abandoned all dignity and self-respect.

        I was struck by how acceptable Ardern's considerable achievements are to an economically elite, but socially liberal, audience. If anyone wanted to seriously push back at the significance of her speech, rather than just play dumb gotcha games like ZB and the Herald, that would be the point to explore – what progress has been made in reducing economic inequality.

      • Robert Guyton 2.3.2

        Zuckerberg and Winfrey are fabulously rich, therefore the Right do consider them intellectual heavyweights (big brained).

        • Patricia Bremner

          devil Hope you enjoyed "discombobulated" Robert, even if Ross did not lol.

  3. Reality 3

    Good news about the meeting. Some slightly snide comments have been made insinuating the PM may not rate getting a meeting, so hope those commenters now change their tune.

    • Jenny how to get there 3.1

      There would be few times in History, (if ever), that the President of the US rearranged his schedule at short notice to fit in a meeting with the leader of a small nation.

      • gypsy 3.1.1

        This meeting well arranged before Ardern left NZ. The challenge for the PM will to ensure Biden stays awake through it.

    • One hopes Biden will use a dialogue around Jacinda's post mosque shooting gun law changes to tighten gun laws in the US.

      • Jenny how to get there 3.2.1


      • Ad 3.2.2

        Biden has until November until he loses majority in Senate and Congress.

        To do anything.

        Then it gets really hard.

        • Bearded Git

          Agreed Ad….but a lot of people will look at the standing ovation she got for mentioning gun reform from the smartest people in the country and think maybe the time has come. It has to happen sometime.

  4. weka 4

    Who wants to have a crack at explaining this?

    • Jenny how to get there 4.1


      27 May 2022 at 9:49 am

      Who wants to have a crack at explaining this?

      Not me personally but you probably couldn't go much far past this for an explanation:

      The Global Reserve Army of Labor and the New Imperialism

      by John Bellamy Foster, Robert W. McChesney and R. Jamil Jonna

      (Nov 01, 2011)

      …. It is customary to see this shift as arising from the economic crisis of 1974–75 and the rise of neoliberalism—or as erupting in the 1980s and after, with the huge increase in the global capitalist labor force resulting from the integration of Eastern Europe and China into the world economy….

      …..“absolute general law of capitalist accumulation,”

      The greater the social wealth, the functioning capital, the extent and energy of its growth, and therefore also the greater the absolute mass of the proletariat and the productivity of its labour, the greater is the industrial reserve army…. But the greater this reserve army in proportion to the active labour-army, the greater is the mass of a consolidated surplus population, whose misery is in inverse ratio to the amount of torture it has to undergo in the form of labour. The more extensive, finally, the pauperized sections of the working class and the industrial reserve army, the greater is official pauperism. This is the absolute general law of capitalist accumulation.

      “Nowadays…the field of action of this ‘law,’” as Harry Magdoff and Paul Sweezy stated in 1986,

      is the entire global capitalist system, and its most spectacular manifestations are in the third world where unemployment rates range up to 50 percent and destitution, hunger, and starvation are increasingly endemic. But the advanced capitalist nations are by no means immune to its operation: more than 30 million men and women, in excess of 10 percent of the available labor force, are unemployed in the OECD countries; and in the United States itself, the richest of them all, officially defined poverty rates are rising even in a period of cyclical upswing.


    • KJT 4.2

      Already have.

      KJT. Random musings on all sorts of things.: The Reserve Bank, Debt and the Property Market (kjt-kt.blogspot.com)

      In the present case, as even the Governer of the reserve bank says, “Once again Adrian Orr describes government spending in the budget as only a very small part of the drivers behind inflation in direct contradiction to Luxon and Seymour. Here is a good explanation by Adrian Orr about what is really happening”. https://www.facebook.com/661042032/videos/1146421059476599/
      Inflation is almost entirely imported. Making "fighting inflation" by raising interest rates for New Zealanders, almost totally pointless as an inflation fighting tool.

      The effect is simply to punish those asking for pay rises (an intention behind the RBA all along) and to depress the real economy. Interest rate rises may yet kill more employment and businesses than covid.

      "What hasn’t been commented on is that an increase in interest rates will also penalise every business and household in the country including everyone resident in Auckland and Christchurch who already have a mortgage and have no intention of buying or selling a home. There will be no beneficial behaviour change within that wide group who are not seeking to get further into debt but it will impose hardship and constrain the rest of the economy. The interest rate rise would be imposed simply as an attempt to limit price rises"

      As inflation is imposed, almost entirely in this instance, from offshore, trying to limit it by raising interest rates within NZ is an own goal, and more likely to result in recession and further supply problems.

    • Nic the NZer 4.3

      Nothing to explain, this is a part of official policy, Lachlan is entirely correct. In technical terms the estimated rate of unemployment is called the NAIRU rate. The budget documents will usually mention what rate their thinking is using.

    • pat 4.4

      We lack nurses/caregivers, builders (apparently), truck drivers, ag workers …the list is long.

      We have a multitude of hospitality and tourism businesses that are what are described as 'zombie' companies.

      There is a mismatch of employment…if you wish the labour pool to be otherwise occupied how do you engineer it?….cease the support for the non viable businesses through artificially low interest rates (and consequent increasing asset prices) and force labour into productive/profitable enterprises that can service higher capital costs.

      It isnt pleasant but does Wellington (or NZ) really benefit from 400 cafes?….or do we benefit from thousands of Air BnBs (and the labour it removes from the workforce)?…or any other number of businesses that can only survive because asset values were increasing and borrowing was easy.

      And then there are the associated issues related to the inflated cost of housing that feeds into our competitiveness.

      • Nic the NZer 4.4.1

        In this case I propose a bylaw. Licenses for new cafe premises will only be granted when one or more of the following applies,

        A) the barristas have built new premises.

        B) the barristas are operating inside a doctors surgery and part timing as nurses.

        C) the barristas harvest their own coffee beans.

        D) the barristas have a heavy vehicles license.

        • Poission

          D) i think the baristas with a HVL would rather work at Walmart.

          • Nic the NZer

            Its the US so, it depends how many of the costs of operating a truck are sub contracted onto the drivers. Maybe the driver shortage will get some of those corporate excesses improved.

  5. Ad 5

    From experience the people for medium skilled construction or medium skilled service work are injured-recovering, long term ACC. NEETs, Long term welfare, gang-related or short term jail offenders. Especially in Southland, Otago, Canterbury. Nelson, Wellington, Manawatu, and Wairarapa.

    To get below 3% those are the people you have to focus a lot of money and management around.

    Not a lot of employers can do that.

    • Nic the NZer 5.1

      Assuming this is about the NAIRU rate estimates. The cost of employment going below x is not considered important, even if escalating. In theory the idea of accelerating inflation is based on employees having too much bargaining power and earning too high wage increases. The official policy is to keep some people unemployed limiting wage demands.

      If this sounds to brazen to be state policy you need only look back to the benefit cuts policies of the 90s when it was clearly projected that the unemployed needed to bargain more desperately for a job, rather than what was paid as a benefit. Literal hunger seems to have played a key part when minimal food budget estimates by nutritionists had to be cut by an additional percent to be acceptable to the official budget plan.

      • Ad 5.1.1

        The cost of unemployment going below 3% may not be important to the definition of the measure, but it is certainly important to employers. The RB should reflect on that.

        As a company we observe that, now that they can, many staff and subbies booking their tickets for Australia, Europe and UK for the major construction works. Australia in particular. Higher wages, even more epic infrastructure, and they will fly you in and out.

        Construction Accord meetings across the main public and private players are fully focussed on this.

        • Nic the NZer

          I think as KJT's comment highlights the Reserve bank is presently merely adding increasing interest costs to the other costs of employing people. Its doing that because its supposed to help with inflation, don't ya know.

  6. Peter 6

    Last December a story about a GOP congressman and family posing with guns for a Christmas photo made the news. It was shortly after a school shooting.

    No doubt the same will happen this year.


  7. weka 7

    I laughed at Gervais' Super Nature on Netflix, was offended in places, enjoyed his clever construction of humour. It was deeply political, he says it's not, that he just wants to make people laugh, but it is both: laughter inducing and very political.

    He straight up spent five minutes repeating hardcore gender ideology talking points. He didn't even have to work to make them into jokes, he just repeated what happens on twitter everyday.

    He also told jokes about women, disabled kids, paedophilia, and so on. He's not hating on those groups of people, he's pointing to stereotypes and the problems that identity politics is causing.

    It's a particular kind of humour that won't suit everyone but there's something there to appreciate that we are short on, and that is satire.

    This is as good a representation of the response to his show (and the problem) as any.

    • Puckish Rogue 7.1

      Geez that was funny, that shit-eating grin of his made it even better


  8. Jester 8

    David Parker puts his foot in his mouth more than once!

    At 1:50 he actually says he thinks the gangs handed back their semi autos!

    And not only that at 2:50 he would rather a shotgun than a semi auto fired at houses.

    We all feel safe now!

    'Abhorrent': Bridge calls out Parker over gun comment after recent Auckland shootings (msn.com)

    • Puckish Rogue 8.1

      That was a really bad call, like hes not wrong but really its not something you should say out loud

      • KJT 8.1.1

        Why the hell not. It is true.

        • Puckish Rogue

          Maybe because anyone shooting anything at someones house is a bad look for the government and it probably isn't much of a comfort for the peoples whose houses were shot up

          • KJT

            Still far rather a shotgun than an assualt rifle. For reasons which should be obvious.
            Idiot talking heads and their parrots, get their knickers in a knot over the strangest things.

            • Puckish Rogue

              They sure do, us conservatives on the other hand don't smiley

              • KJT

                But. "Here we are".

              • Incognito

                A real conservative wouldn’t want to ban opera. You’re not a true conservative, you’re a wannabee, an uncouth barbarian who’s learned some manners by watching Pride and Prejudice (the one with Keira, of course) and who went to school and learned to read Hairy Maclary.

            • Poission

              Except the police also believe high powered rifles were used on some incidents.

              "I do believe a number of these weapons that have been used are high powered rifles and that causes immense concern for us."

              Do you believe the police understand what weapons were used?


              With a general arming order across Auckland,do you believe the police will be armed with hugs and kindness?

            • Jester

              Sleep well tonight knowing Government is far happier that your house will only get shot gun pellets. I guess that is getting tough on crime according to Labour. Semi autos bad, shot guns ok.

              And I feel better that according to Parker, the gangs did hand the naughty guns back (just kept the not so naughty ones).

              • Incognito

                I’d rather get hit by a Smart car than by a big 4-wheel drive. See, bad, less bad, but still bad. Let me know if I go too fast for you.

                • Jester

                  If a Smart car travelling at 60km/hr hits you crossing the road you will probably die.

                  If a big 4 wheel drive travelling at 60km/hr hits you crossing the road you will probably die.

                  • Incognito

                    You still don’t get it, do you. Let’s try a lower speed for you, say 30 km/h, and they T-bone me at the driver’s side. Likely to die, and less likely to die, still not ideal and not something I’d voluntarily test out. Still too fast for you?

                    BTW, even if I were to get hit crossing the road, I’d rather take my chances with a much smaller Smart car than the much bigger 4-wheel drive; even the side mirrors on the latter are more dangerous (ask cyclists).

              • KJT

                Less "bad guns" less people dead.

                To simple for you?

                May as well allow RPG’s. After all they are just more “bad”?

            • gypsy

              You make it sound like we have a choice. I choose neither. Or do I have to wait for the PM sack this useless police minister first?

              • KJT

                You want to ban shot guns as well?

                No problem.

                • gypsy

                  I want less crime, particularly less gun crime. Auckland has been hugely affected, and quite frankly the empty rhetoric of our police minister is sickening.

                  • KJT

                    I gave a whole lot of references. You know evidence, of how we get less crime.

                    And then a whole bunch of idiots came back with suggestions equivalent to putting more cops at the bottom of the cliff……..

                    More interested in bagging some Labour Ministers, with specious bullshit, than reducing crime.

                    Right wingers Don't want less crime. They want more. To scare voters into voting for their over simplistic and ineffectual, "solutions".

                    • gypsy

                      I applaud you making suggestions about how we get less crime. I just wish the minister of police were so proactive.

                      But speaking of the bottom of the cliff…how about funding bollards in front of shops when crime is going nuts on your watch.

                    • Jester

                      "Right wingers Don't want less crime. They want more."

                      What a stupid comment. A lot of the businesses that are being ram raided are probably right wingers. They want someone to actually do something about stopping it. Hugging the crims is not working.

                    • Incognito []

                      Talking of stupid comments!! Not even intended irony undoes this level of stupidity.

              • Incognito

                Good choice! Don’t vote for ACT.

    • gypsy 8.2

      Technically, of course, he's correct. But tone deaf, and politically damaging. Particularly in Auckland.

      • Incognito 8.2.1

        Selective hearing: only hearing or thinking that you’re hearing what you want to hear.

        And we do have just a few in-house experts in selective hearing and associated sign language here on TS.

        • gypsy

          "only hearing or thinking that you’re hearing what you want to hear."

          I wouldn't describe Ryan Bridge in those terms, but ok.

          • Incognito

            I wouldn’t know, I was referring to members of the TS commentariat, who obviously use Ryan Bridge as a ‘hearing aid’.

            • gypsy

              Oh, I see. Have you considered the possibility that he might just be saying what many Aucklanders were actually thinking? And what the police minster has (belated) realised?

              • Incognito

                Do you mean, have I considered that he’s saying what his listeners actually want to hear? And have I considered that the selective-hearing ones here on TS actually heard what he wanted them to hear?

                You nailed it, in a few attempts, which is better than John Key did with that hammer and that billboard.

                • Gypsy

                  I was quite clear – do you think he’s saying what Aucklanders are ‘actually thinking’.

                  [Please check and correct your user name in the next comment, thanks]

                • gypsy

                  No not what they want to hear, "what many Aucklanders were actually thinking?" There is a difference you know.

                  • Incognito

                    I have given my working definition of selective hearing. Are you now disagreeing with that?

                    It was about what Parker said and what people heard or thought they heard, yes? Bridge was the ‘hearing aid’.

                    Confirmation bias and selective hearing are not the same. There is a difference you know.

                    Now, work it out, I’m gonna have a few drinks in about an hour.

                    • gypsy

                      What Parker said was stupid. It is tone deaf because it goes against the lived experience of Aucklanders who are facing a rising escalation of gun related crime.

                      What Bridge said about Parker's comments reflects what many Aucklanders are thinking. Not what we want to think or want to hear, what we are actually thinking. Crime is rampant in the city at the moment. I live less than 10 minutes from what appears to be yet another horrendous murder, and it's out of control.

                    • Incognito []

                      What Aucklanders were thinking about what Parker said!? He’d just said it and you and Bridge already claim or imply to know what Aucklanders were thinking? You mean the ones with selective–hearing problems who needed a hearing aid?

                      … and it’s out of control.

                      There you go, you demonstrate my point exactly, which is most probably why you’re listening to talk-back and hearing the things you think you’re hearing: confirmation bias.

                      Nice meme, BTW, nicely aided by the NZ media.

                    • gypsy

                      "…and you and Bridge already claim or imply to know what Aucklanders were thinking?"

                      I can only speak for my own impression of what Aucklanders are thinking, and it's widespread disgust.

                      "confirmation bias."

                      Far from it.

                      I sat at home this afternoon listening to the police helicopter and police cars moving in on the suspect in a brutal knife murder in a popular local walking area.

                      In Sandringham, just down the road from where I live, the Sandringham Business Association have described how brazen crime is happening every day.

                      Four days ago the police said they were "…disgusted by the callous behaviour of gun-toting criminals, saying it's extremely fortunate no one has been hurt after seven shootings in Auckland overnight.". That was after shootings in 7 suburbs across Auckland in one night.

                      If you don't live in Auckland, you seriously cannot understand what's going on.

                    • Incognito []

                      I can only speak for my own impression of what Aucklanders are thinking, and it’s widespread disgust.

                      Now you walk back the talk-back. About time you realise the limits of your knowledge and personal experience.

                      So, now talk-back is like a dog whistle that can only be heard & understood properly by Aucklanders who live in ‘the war zone’?

                      You’ve confirmed your confirmation bias, again.

                      Apparently, David Parker is a part-time Aucklander, but he may not live in the ‘right’ area to understand, which makes him ‘tone deaf’, allegedly.

                    • gypsy

                      "Now you walk back the talk-back. About time you realise the limits of your knowledge and personal experience."

                      I didn't walk anything back. I would have thought 'widespread disgust' was a fairly strong claim?

                      And yes I understand unless you've living it, it's hard to comprehend it. It's so much easier to snipe away about 'talk-back' and 'dog whistles' rather than actually accept we have a problem.

                    • Incognito []

                      And Parker didn’t accept there’s a problem or he denied it? Now, who’s hearing things??

                      You have no idea where I’m living and what I experience in terms of violent crime and killings by shootings on an all too regular basis – it is not a fucking competition – and frankly it doesn’t matter because no matter what has happened in my area I still don’t see Parker’s interview in the same bad light as you do nor do I see this Government’s efforts on crime and gun laws in particular as failures or denials of a huge problem. Far from it. The big difference is that I don’t have your confirmation bias and negative attitudes.

                    • gypsy

                      "And Parker didn’t accept there’s a problem or he denied it? "

                      Oh he knows there's a problem, their polling will be telling them, which makes his flippant remark all the sillier.

                      "I still don’t see Parker’s interview in the same bad light as you do nor do I see this Government’s efforts on crime and gun laws in particular as failures or denials of a huge problem. "

                      Which makes you as out of touch as Parker's comments made him look.

                    • Incognito []

                      Got it, because people don’t swallow the same memes from talk-back and don’t see things your way they’re ‘tone deaf’, ‘out of touch’, and ‘sniping’ at the truth-seekers & truth-speakers of MSM. You know that these labels and accusations say a lot about you, don’t you? Don’t forget to lock the doors tonight and to set the alarm.

                    • gypsy

                      No it's the denial of reality. You can't see it see it because you’re doing it.

                    • Incognito []


                    • gypsy

                      "Sensationalising news ≠ making it all up"

                      I would say that claiming media reports were 'Not a reflection of reality' is tantamount to saying they are making it all up. Wouldn't you?

                      [You would say that because you make up your own narrative here. It doesn’t change the fact that you are twisting KJT’s words.

                      Sensationalising, radicalising, ramping up, embellishing, magnifying, propaganda, et cetera, don’t mean making it all up, i.e., ab initio, but twisting and distorting reality, just as you do here with KJT’s words. You know full well that there’s always a kernel of truth and a foundation of truth, quite often the iceberg under the surface. So, don’t be smart arse here playing your smart arse game with us and implying that KJT is some kind of media conspiracy nutter.

                      The media know what they’re doing and it is not writing Sci-Fi or D&D Fantasy:


                      What media are very good at is making up sensational attention-drawing headlines and other click-bait because that helps them to make money. If you can’t keep up here then pull out – Incognito]

                    • Incognito []

                      Mod note

                    • gypsy

                      "It doesn’t change the fact that you are twisting KJT’s words."

                      I didn't, and I showed you I didn't. KJT's exact words were "Sensational media, is not a reflection of reality.". "Not a reflection of reality' is implying 'making stuff up'. You do this a lot…can't run an argument and then attempt to moderate your way out of it.

                      [My argument is that you’re twisting KJT’s words, and you do. You left out the operative word here this time, which is “all” and you definitely implied KJT is a media conspiracy nutter. You do this a lot…denying your error of ways and then arguing with moderation when given a warning.

                      This is your last warning – Incognito]

                    • Incognito []

                      Mod note

              • KJT

                I have.

                But then I noticed he simply parrots right wing "gotcha" memes. Like the usual suspects on TS. Obviously what he is paid to do.

  9. rod 9

    Ridge is just another National Party Poodle. IMHO .

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