Open Mike 27/10/2016

161 comments on “Open Mike 27/10/2016 ”

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1. Paul 1

   27 October 2016 at 6:28 am

   This is the sort of news the New Zealand media should be telling.

   Climate change wars are coming and building walls won’t help, top general warns.

   Climate change is threatening to force millions of people to become refugees and spark major wars that could “completely destabilise” the world, a leading general has warned.

   And countries which attempted to deal with the coming crisis by resorting to “narrow nationalistic instincts” – for example, by building walls to keep out refugees – will only make the problem worse, according to Major General Munir Muniruzzaman, chairman of the Global Military Advisory Council On Climate Change (GMACCC).

   He added that, while countries had talked a lot about the problems posed by global warming and how to address them, there did not seem to be “much action” on the ground…….

   http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/climate-change-wars-global-warming-conflict-refugees-walls-wont-help-general-warns-a7381031.html

   Not this
   http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=11736453

   or this
   http://www.stuff.co.nz/entertainment/tv-radio/85752230/reporter-eats-pies-for-a-month-loses-eight-kilos
2. Paul 2

   27 October 2016 at 6:29 am

   John’s Key’s New Zealand.
   A better future.
   • The Chairman 2.1

     27 October 2016 at 6:53 am

     It seems there is a lack of policing.
     • Paul 2.1.1

       27 October 2016 at 7:25 am

       Rowarth on RNZ defending animal cruelty.
       After her previous effort on behalf of agribusiness when she defended the levels of pollution in our waterways.
       She is proving to be quite a useful scientist.
   • tc 2.2

     27 October 2016 at 6:53 am

     Some Farmers do as they have always but not all treat them like this.

     IMO you can’t pin this on shonky as dairy has always had this dark side to milk production. National have made it more widespread though via their dairy push.

     My dearly departed uncle, a beef farmer, refused to have veal in his house as he considered it not only barbaric but a waste of perfectly fine livestock.
     • Robert Guyton 2.2.1

       27 October 2016 at 8:34 am

       The real villain here is domestication, I think. Cruelty to animals is widespread across time and space and stems from our taming of wild animals. A hunted wild animal can at least act with integrity, where the docile “captured” sheep, goat, pig or cow behaves as though hypnotized. Compare the pre-domestication era hunter with the man who biffs helpless calves onto the back of a truck. One is wild, the other is corrupted.
   • Psycho Milt 2.3

     27 October 2016 at 7:32 am

     “John Key’s New Zealand?” It’s also “Paul’s New Zealand.” He has about as much to do with this as you do. Believe it or not, animal cruelty pre-dates the current government.
     • marty mars 2.3.1

       27 October 2016 at 8:18 am

       + 1 Yep all meat eaters, dairy eaters, leather wearers are implicated. This is OUR NZ and it stinks.
       • weka 2.3.1.1

         27 October 2016 at 9:17 am

         I don’t think there is much high ground here for anyone marty. Ethical meat/dairy eaters choose to get their food from sources where the farmers have an obligation to treat the animals well. This isn’t perfect, but it is bringing change slowly in a different way that avoiding animal foods. Vegan foods are often unethical in other ways. In terms of the treatment of farm animals and ecosystems, it’s on all of us to work to protect life.
         • marty mars 2.3.1.1.1

           27 October 2016 at 1:42 pm

           Yes all are implicated and i spose obligated to accept that. As pm says no need for cruelty.
           • weka 2.3.1.1.1.1

             27 October 2016 at 1:54 pm

             The thing that got me was the spokesperson on RNZ who said that it wasn’t cruelty it was mistreatment or something. She had a whole rationale lined up for the differences between the two. There are people who just don’t give a shit about the experiences that animals have.
             • mosa …

               27 October 2016 at 10:31 pm

               “The thing that got me” was listening to some horses arse from Federated Farmers saying the treatment was standard farming practice and was not as bad as the torture case from last year !!!

               These people are part of the problem, they dont recognise cruelty when the footage is right in front of them and always protect their interests and the farmers and the perpetrators who are involved.

               The animal welfare act is failing the animals it is supposed to protect and the punishments need to be severe.

               Also the people who are ill treating these innocent animals have mental health issues , most people love animals and would never treat a living creature this way.

               Farm Safe are right its been a year and nothing has changed !!
               It needs to.
       • Psycho Milt 2.3.1.2

         27 October 2016 at 10:06 am

         We’re omnivores. We live off other critters the same as most other live things on the planet. Killing is inherent to the process (even for the whited sepulchres known as vegans), but cruelty doesn’t have to be.
   • b waghorn 2.4

     27 October 2016 at 7:45 am

     They really need to change the vehicle they use for picking up calves , lifting 200 calves up to those heights would wear any man out.
     • marty mars 2.4.1

       27 October 2016 at 8:05 am

       yeah poor buggers – not fair on those blokes – fuck the baby calves, those arseholes have ruined it for everyone

       ///verysarc
       • McFlock 2.4.1.1

         27 October 2016 at 1:34 pm

         Well, Al Capone was done for tax evasion, not racketeering and murder.
         Might be an interesting approach for farmwatch to take 🙂
       • b waghorn 2.4.1.2

         27 October 2016 at 5:26 pm

         what part of my post condoned it dick head, but unlike you perfect fuck wits i would rather find a solution than attack people.
         maybe i should start filming unemployed brown people to see if they are behaving properly all the time
         • marty mars 2.4.1.2.1

           27 October 2016 at 6:00 pm

           You know the truth of it as do I — I don’t have sympathy for those caught being cruel – as you tried to be in both your comments. Nice one.
   • Richard Rawshark 2.5

     27 October 2016 at 11:25 am

     Paul find another frame for the pic, hurting looking at that.
   • The Chairman 2.6

     27 October 2016 at 1:04 pm

     17 animal welfare inspectors.

     10% of farms inspected annually.

     Will National commit to increasing these numbers?
3. BM 3

   27 October 2016 at 7:39 am

   Check out this hi-tech kiwi company, I can see Talleys becoming a big customer going forward.

   http://www.businessinsider.com.au/jbs-meatpacking-testing-robot-butchers-2016-10?r=US&IR=T

   Scott technologies
   https://www.youtube.com/user/ScottTechnologyLtd
   • Draco T Bastard 3.1

     27 October 2016 at 8:23 am

     I think it’s great. It’s the type of stuff that we should have been doing for years now rather than the excessive focus on farming that we’ve had over the last few decades that have destroyed our environment.

     It also shows up that private ownership only ever leads to rentier capitalism and poverty.
     • BM 3.1.1

       27 October 2016 at 8:39 am

       It also shows up that private ownership only ever leads to rentier capitalism and poverty.

       This sort of technology does rather put people out of work.

       Going forward it would be a good idea for meat workers to demonstrate to the owners of these meat works that they’re better value and less hassle than their robotic counterparts otherwise it’s highly likely they’ll become obsolete.
       • Robert Guyton 3.1.1.1

         27 October 2016 at 8:47 am

         Bring back the Luddites!
         • BM 3.1.1.1.1

           27 October 2016 at 9:00 am

           I wouldn’t be surprised if we do see a return.

           Lots and lots of peoples ability to earn money is going to disappear in the next few decades, which will lead to a lot of resentment and anger.

           Eventually, I sort of see society dividing into two camps, one group living a hi-tech existence within the cities and the others probably put out of work by robotics moving to or creating smaller low -tech communities outside of the main cities where they can still have a purpose.
           • Puckish Rogue 3.1.1.1.1.1

             27 October 2016 at 9:25 am

             Sounds a bit like the Eloi and Morlocks
             • BM …

               27 October 2016 at 9:50 am

               Never read that book, should really give it a read.
               • Puckish Rogue …

                 27 October 2016 at 10:19 am

                 Its good, you can see why its stood the test of time
           • Draco T Bastard 3.1.1.1.1.2

             27 October 2016 at 9:30 am

             I don’t. Go the way that you think it should and what we’ll get is a re-run of the French Revolution.
             • BM …

               27 October 2016 at 9:46 am

               It’s a just a guess, but

               if robotics takes hold like many people think it will, then society is going to look dramatically different in a very short period of time and there’s going to be quite a period of upheaval as the country goes through the transition to a robot centric work force.

               What do all the people put out of work do, sit around and pull their puds all day?, people need purpose, so I can see them moving to areas where that need can be fulfilled.

               I would if I was in that situation.
               • Draco T Bastard …

                 27 October 2016 at 10:05 am

                 people need purpose, so I can see them moving to areas where that need can be fulfilled.

                 I would expect that to happen – in a non-capitalist society.

                 In our capitalist society I just see them getting pushed onto the dole queue and then have all their support cut from them when the government decides that they need to give the rich more tax cuts. Exactly what National have been doing for the last eight years in fact.
                 • ropata …

                   27 October 2016 at 4:27 pm

                   there is PLENTY of work to be done, in occupations that are currently volunteer, underpaid, understaffed or not recognised.
                   i.e.
                   social work, childcare, nursing, counselling, mental health, refugee resettlement
                   community advocacy, maintenance of public amenities (libraries, pools, )
                   environment protection, DOC work, biodiversity, cleaning up pollution

                   There are other occupations that are highly skilled but we *still* can’t get enough of, despite a torrent of new immigrants… it’s a no brainer that the govt should *invest* in upskilling people, not use them as a tertiary fees cash cow
                   • Draco T Bastard …

                     27 October 2016 at 5:01 pm

                     there is PLENTY of work to be done, in occupations that are currently volunteer, underpaid, understaffed or not recognised.

                     Yes there is but work that can’t be done under a capitalist system.

                     There are other occupations that are highly skilled but we *still* can’t get enough of

                     That too. In fact, IMO, all the people who will become unemployed should be trained up and placed into those positions. Many will be simply in R&D.

                     But, again, it’s not something that can be done under a capitalist system as it means foregoing profit.
       • Draco T Bastard 3.1.1.2

         27 October 2016 at 9:28 am

         This sort of technology does rather put people out of work.

         Which I’m in favour of.

         Going forward it would be a good idea for meat workers to demonstrate to the owners of these meat works that they’re better value and less hassle than their robotic counterparts otherwise it’s highly likely they’ll become obsolete.

         No, it’s for private ownership to show that it brings about the best result for the community. And so far thousands of years of private ownership have proven otherwise.
       • Psycho Milt 3.1.1.3

         27 October 2016 at 10:00 am

         Going forward it would be a good idea for meat workers to demonstrate to the owners of these meat works that they’re better value and less hassle than their robotic counterparts otherwise it’s highly likely they’ll become obsolete.

         In other words, meat workers should stop expecting decent working conditions from their employers or the employers will replace them with robots. That’s a seriously fucked-up attitude you’ve got there.

         If it’s more expensive to have humans do a particular job for reasonable pay and conditions than it is to have a robot do it, the job is already obsolete, by definition. Only someone who regards the working class as a commodity would argue otherwise.
         • Draco T Bastard 3.1.1.3.1

           27 October 2016 at 10:05 am

           +1
         • BM 3.1.1.3.2

           27 October 2016 at 10:10 am

           In other words, meat workers should stop expecting decent working conditions from their employers or the employers will replace them with robots. That’s a seriously fucked-up attitude you’ve got there.

           That’s just the reality of the situation that many workers will find themselves in, in years to come

           Personally I don’t think it’s very good, but how else does the worker compete with the robot?
           • Muttonbird 3.1.1.3.2.1

             27 October 2016 at 10:15 am

             http://www.superiorpics.com/movie_pictures/mp/1991_Terminator_2:_Judgment_Day/md/1991_terminator_2_004.jpg
           • Psycho Milt 3.1.1.3.2.2

             27 October 2016 at 12:48 pm

             Workers can’t compete with robots and shouldn’t. It wouldn’t be a good thing if car assembly workers had found ways to make themselves cheaper than robots and cars were still being completely assembled by hand. The cars wouldn’t be as good and the pay and conditions in car assembly would be abysmal.

             It’s not a new problem – the Stranglers wrote Rise of the Robots in 1978, and it still holds true:

             “You won’t have to grease their palms
             Shorter hours longer arms

             ….

             They’re good workers, they don’t get bored
             Don’t get mad at bosses yet”

             A robot isn’t going to have a problem working for a shit like Talley, but any human with a sense of self-worth will. We’re just going to have to figure out how to deal with a large surplus of labour.
             • Puckish Rogue …

               27 October 2016 at 1:10 pm

               https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soylent_Green
             • Draco T Bastard …

               27 October 2016 at 1:17 pm

               It’s not that we’re going to have a large surplus of labour that’s the problem but that all the wealth will be going to people who don’t actually produce anything.

               Of course, that’s the problem that we have today but it’s going to get far worse.
               • McFlock …

                 27 October 2016 at 1:50 pm

                 Yep, long term transition to UBI is probably the way to adapt as that comes to pass.

                 As the great documentary material based on the exploits of Judge Dredd shows, the real challenge will be boredom.
                 • Puckish Rogue …

                   27 October 2016 at 2:32 pm

                   Bringing in the judges would cut down on jail cells…
                   • McFlock …

                     27 October 2016 at 2:49 pm

                     not at five years in a cube for jaywalking…
                   • Puckish Rogue …

                     27 October 2016 at 3:48 pm

                     I will admit to thinking that some of their calls were a bit harsh
                   • McFlock …

                     27 October 2016 at 3:55 pm

                     Garth McVictim would call them ideal lol
4. The Chairman 4

   27 October 2016 at 7:53 am

   How are we going to add value to NZ forestry when we own little of it?

   http://tvnz.co.nz/q-and-a-news/trustees-our-trees-video-6498869
5. Skinny 5

   27 October 2016 at 8:05 am

   Natcorp Boss John Key caught out with an embellishment of the truth. India doesn’t want a sham corporate free trade deal peddled by former rogue Wall Street trader;

   “But New Zealand Herald political reporter Nicholas Jones says in a statement after the meeting between the men in Delhi, Mr Modi’s only reference was to a closer economic cooperation, no mention of a free trade deal.”

   http://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/news/politics/trade-talks-on-the-table-during-pms-visit-to-new-delhi/#.WBD6Xq6v8dQ.facebook
   • Richard Rawshark 5.1

     27 October 2016 at 10:36 am

     Excellent see how he spins stuff, I knew this was a waste of money and time pre election stunt shennanighans specially when he took Brendan, Expect more stuff like this from Herr Key coming up in a Propaganda media outlet near you soon.
     • Wayne Mapp 5.1.1

       27 October 2016 at 12:10 pm

       Are you both suggesting the NZ PM ignore India?

       Surely even those opposed to John Key as PM can remove their blinkers just enough to see that it is in New Zealand’s benefit that the govt make a big effort to upgrade the relationship with India from a multitude of perspectives.

       It takes a PM visit to actually get time to engage with PM Modi and his top team. And despite what you think, Key has a strong reputation with overseas leaders, and he is now one of the longest serving leaders in the democratic world. That is one of the reasons he has the level of access that he does.

       A trade deal will be harder with India than China. There are strong overhangs from the licence raj, and there are still lots of protected areas. For instance supermarkets with global links are a recent innovation for India.
       • Skinny 5.1.1.1

         27 October 2016 at 12:45 pm

         That is laughable if you think this leader of India is going to be any different than the last your more deluded that I thought Mapp. I recall the Natcorp boss John Key got the bums rush from their former leader.

         It didn’t look like Modi was impressed with the snake oil trick of rocking up with a former Black Caps captain in a three way hand shake greeting. Besides India looks after their farmers and won’t be fooled by a former Wall Street trader who has thrown our farmers to the wolves.
         • Red 5.1.1.1.1

           27 October 2016 at 3:58 pm

           KDS strong in this one Wayne
       • Garibaldi 5.1.1.2

         27 October 2016 at 4:18 pm

         The junior party in “free trade” deals always dips out.
         Let’s go for Fair Trade instead, otherwise we will dip out yet again.
         ” We” aren’t benefitting from our current trade deals – we have simply become more and more dependant on cheap imported shit, and have lost our ability to be almost self sufficient.
         The only ones who do benefit from these deals are the usual suspects…. the 0.01%ers. The rest of us crap out, whilst we are slowly losing our independence.
         • Draco T Bastard 5.1.1.2.1

           27 October 2016 at 4:22 pm

           +1
         • ropata 5.1.1.2.2

           27 October 2016 at 4:34 pm

           FTA with China has screwed up our rivers, poisoned thousands of people, and sold off huge tracts of land to foreign interests.

           New Zealand’s sovereignty is gone, our “environment protection” & “human rights” record is a joke,,, but the 1% have been making fat profits.
         • Chuck 5.1.1.2.3

           27 October 2016 at 5:38 pm

           “and have lost our ability to be almost self sufficient”

           That depends on what you (and the rest of NZ) want to give up. For example, NZ has no problem feeding itself, providing basic building materials and a few other things.

           However, NZ has never been self sufficient with most of the other modern conveniences.
           • Draco T Bastard 5.1.1.2.3.1

             27 October 2016 at 6:31 pm

             NZ has never been self sufficient with most of the other modern conveniences.

             That’s where you’re actually wrong. We had quite an electronics industry here that got trounced when neo-liberalism was brought in. It’s been slowly building up again but it should have been far more along than it is.

             Free-trade almost stopped the continued development of our economy.

             With proper government support and research we should have had full electronics production capability a long time ago.
       • Gangnam Style 5.1.1.3

         27 October 2016 at 4:58 pm

         Hello Dr Wayne, have you got time to answer this question put to you on another thread (understand you might not have seen it)…

         “This should be Wayne’s area of expertise. Come on Wayne, spill the beans on your perks and what they mean for you.”

         https://thestandard.org.nz/ex-mp-travel-expenses-its-a-fair-question/

         Thank you in advance, GS.
6. Punk Is Bread 6

   27 October 2016 at 8:12 am

   Since when is it been police business what private people discuss? The cops setting up roadblocks to get the names of euthanasia campaigners is just not on, it is not illegal for people to discus controversial topics in NZ, yet?
   • ianmac 6.1

     27 October 2016 at 8:58 am

     Perhaps the Police bosses being good Catholics and therefore anti suicide, have misused power to intimidate little old ladies.
   • Richard Rawshark 6.2

     27 October 2016 at 10:30 am

     Don’t twist it to suit your narrative, they were not discussing it, it was a group preparing and aiding each other to commit suicide. Assisted by a UK man leading them.
7. Richard Rawshark 7

   27 October 2016 at 10:28 am

   I just read a bad article on Italy 2 real, real bad aftershocks last one was 6.1 just demolished the country, Lets all take a moment to think about the loss of life, and wish them a speedy recovery and safe night.

   http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=11736622
8. Richard Rawshark 8

   27 October 2016 at 11:05 am

   STOP THE WORLD I WANT TO GET OFF!!!

   So I just read the Prime Minister of New Zealand is Paula Bennett.

   I threw up.
   • Puckish Rogue 8.1

     27 October 2016 at 11:14 am

     I’m surprised, I didn’t think you were the sexist type
     • Richard Rawshark 8.1.1

       27 October 2016 at 11:22 am

       NO I just loathe her with every fibre of my being..PR
       I would not swear allegiance to that C&*(*T
       • Puckish Rogue 8.1.1.1

         27 October 2016 at 11:32 am

         So you’re not sexist anymore, that’s good to know. If its not too personal can I ask when you stopped being sexist?

         [maybe I’m missing some context here, but this looks like out and out baiting (RR didn’t say anything in his comment that could be construed as sexist), so here’s the troll catcher telling you to pull your head in – weka]
         • Richard Rawshark 8.1.1.1.1

           27 October 2016 at 11:37 am

           Does the fact of my dislike for someone being of the female gender make me sexist, are you looking for the 5 minute argument or the 10 minute one?

           Seeing you asked me twice now, I get a feeling you have formed an opinion are sure of yourself and are prepared to stake your reputation on it?
           • Puckish Rogue 8.1.1.1.1.1

             27 October 2016 at 11:48 am

             Naah nothing so interesting, I thought your comment wasn’t supposed to be serious, that you were being humorous so I was playing along like it was an old episode of Father Ted
             • pat …

               27 October 2016 at 11:53 am

               tis brilliant
               • Puckish Rogue …

                 27 October 2016 at 12:07 pm

                 Still funny and one of those comedies that will still be funny in decades to come

                 and just because:
                 

                 and the video it was based on: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VLiTkF1XvF4

                 however it really needs a sax solo
                 • McFlock …

                   27 October 2016 at 2:05 pm

                   I still remember fondly the day in my scrotty student flat when we were watching it at something like 7pm and distinctly heard “fucking hell”. Not feck, fuck.

                   Gobsmacked we were, and expected the show to be pulled without delay. Apparently none of the wowsers noticed though 🙂
         • Robert Guyton 8.1.1.1.2

           27 October 2016 at 12:17 pm

           Troll-catcher! Love it. Will you keep the trophy-head on your virtual wall, above the virtual open fire place and will you lean nonchalantly against the mantle with a glass of port in one hand and a cigar in the other and recall the hunt; how that troll did wriggle and squirm and howl once your trap was sprung?
           Hope so.
           • Puckish Rogue 8.1.1.1.2.1

             27 October 2016 at 12:26 pm

             http://toarda.com/t/wp-content/gallery/housing-decoration-gallery/cave-troll-trophy.jpg
           • greywarshark 8.1.1.1.2.2

             27 October 2016 at 4:30 pm

             @ Robert
             If you are still around, and seeing it is Open Mike, perhaps you could help me on another topic.

             Do you have any subterranean clover in your plantation? I’ve got this rampant clover with hairy stems and three little whiteish tubular florets in my berm and wonder if I should rejoice that it is filling up the bare patches or not. I couldn’t see in the reports on line that I have identified it from, that there are any prickles as such though I think that the hairy stems do get through skin enough to annoy. Any comments?
             • Robert Guyton …

               27 October 2016 at 8:30 pm

               Hi, greywarshark. I love all of the clovers, but amongst my collection I don’t have subterranean, so can’t be sure of what you’ve got. I believe it doesn’t do well in the South. I do know that the several subterranean clovers we have in NZ are poor performers compared with the Australian versions and that the forage science guys would like to import the gruntier species, but can’t. White clover is a wonderful plant and very manageable, red is prettier and medicinally useful but prone to being overwhelmed by other plants and needs to be resown regularly. I’ve crimson clover, a beautiful annual clover. I’d recommend that you keep and try to enhance your clover crop, if that’s what it is, just because it’s useful to its neighbours, capturing atmospheric nitrogen the way it does. Sorry I could help with the identification, but as I can’t see your plant… 🙂
9. saveNZ 9

   27 October 2016 at 11:54 am

   God help Auckland if this arrogant guy representing ‘middle aged Ponsonby white guy” gets on the AT board. See for yourself how unpleasant he is… and what reward is he going to get (as well as nearly 50k already from AT) for his rabid role in pushing through the unitary plan.

   http://thedailyblog.co.nz/2016/08/03/waatea-5th-estate-is-the-unitary-plan-a-scam/
   • Sacha 9.1

     27 October 2016 at 11:55 am

     Sheesh, tinfoil much?
     • Sacha 9.1.1

       27 October 2016 at 12:10 pm

       This smear has been well-discussed already elsewhere: http://transportblog.co.nz/2016/10/04/confessions-of-an-auckland-voter-why-i-voted-for-chloe/#comment-222632
10. saveNZ 10

    27 October 2016 at 11:58 am

    and this from Granny –

    Phil Goff supports blogger on Auckland Transport board

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11736212

    “Patrick Reynolds, of the Transport Blog, has applied for an observer role on the board, despite the blog stating it “is not associated in any way with Auckland Transport”.

    Reynolds is seeking a customer focus committee board observer role – a non-voting and unpaid position.

    In a letter to the board, Reynolds said he was a highly engaged customer and commentator on Auckland Transport issues who believed his “other side of the counter” perspective would be extremely valuable.

    “There is now significant commonality between our aims and official AT policy. We are highly aligned with AT,” Reynolds said.

    Today, Reynolds said he applied for a board position earlier in the year and received no formal notification of any position being decided.

    Reynolds said if he got a board role “I would likely cease posting on the blog, or only do so with full disclosure and approval of the board. Like all boards there is a confidentiality agreement to adhere to.”
    • Molly 10.1

      27 October 2016 at 3:23 pm

      Been to a couple of meetings with Patrick Reynolds there in attendance as speaker or panel member.

      What struck me most about him, (even though I agree with some – but not all – of his perspectives) was his arrogance.

      When responding to an young audience member who was asking about how to discuss politics with his peers – Patrick Reynolds took the mike from another speaker to say something along the lines of: “Don’t. Don’t discuss politics. Stay away from politics altogether. When I’m writing a post I frame it so that all the questions that can be asked can be rebutted.” (The context was a Generation Zero meeting about climate change and transport)

      That response – the how and content explained a lot about the debate on the transport blog for me.

      He (and Matt L) provide a lot of information and present their conclusions well but don’t seem encourage or practise any active listening or change of opinion. And perspective is limited to quite well-off localised areas, not much on South Auckland or places they are unfamiliar with.

      His position on the AT board will not be out of place with the others already there. But I would much prefer a diversity being sought.

      And I’m starting to want representatives who commit to being a listening ear and advocate for those they purportedly represent instead of being a “voice”.
      • saveNZ 10.1.1

        27 October 2016 at 4:00 pm

        @Molly – I think AT need board members who come from a real life transport perspective, i.e. commuters who commute in from Wellsford and South Auckland. The board need to have members who actually commute from a distance and on average wages, and what is going to work for them.

        I would love to see Patrick Reynold’s commute to work to arrive at 8:30 am from Wellsford to Pamure – and leave at 5pm on the average income for New Zealand to work out what percentage of his income it is and how much time it takes. Add in a wife who commutes to CBD and do the same equation. Work out their transport costs and option available to them under AT.

        I think most of these commentators in transport are a joke, they live in the CBD, Eastern or central suburbs, don’t commute at all and then set themselves up as a transport commentators and experts. What is Patrick Reynolds commute, probably 5 minutes to his office in Grey Lynn? No wonder he doesn’t need to be paid, his house in central Auckland is appreciating more than the average wage. Real people on the board please!!!!

        Get rid of Rebstock and put back Mike Lee. Think about people like Christine Rose who I think live further out.
        • Sacha 10.1.1.1

          27 October 2016 at 4:27 pm

          “The board need to have members who actually commute from a distance and on average wages”

          That would be great, if they also have experience governing a very large organisation. That’s probably the reason Mr Reynolds was not accepted as a candidate for full member of the Board either.
          • saveNZ 10.1.1.1.1

            27 October 2016 at 4:46 pm

            I think being a councillor at the council is considered a ‘large organisation’.

            Sasha, are you some sort of PR person/council or COO worker for the council because you seem to be trolling pro council corporate PR speak in all your responses.
            • Sacha 10.1.1.1.1.1

              27 October 2016 at 9:06 pm

              I agree that a Councillor has the right background for another governance role. Auckland Council is one of the biggest organisations in NZ.
            • Sacha 10.1.1.1.1.2

              27 October 2016 at 9:10 pm

              I do not work for Auckland Council or any ‘CCO’ (controlled – as if’). Have worked for and with and against some of its predecessors, enough to learn the landscape. Want evidence-based advocacy is all. Plenty to challenge, done well.
11. greywarshark 11

    27 October 2016 at 12:01 pm

    Look for life streaming of union tribute to Helen Kelly tomorrow – time? May be on link I haven’t time to look as yet.
    http://union.org.nz/news/2016/details-farewell-helen-kelly
    • Sacha 11.1

      27 October 2016 at 10:25 pm

      1pm. thank you.
12. saveNZ 12

    27 October 2016 at 12:08 pm

    Poor Labour, you have to feel for them, after jettisoning Goff these are the headlines he is creating and the decisions he is supporting

    So far Goff’s legacy for his first week?,

    get rid of elected councillors off AT, potentially allow a white middle aged Ponsonby guy who comes across as extremely unpleasant and out of touch and zealous to be an observer (what happened to confidentiality?) on AT instead, look to cut hours and make library staff redundant to cut costs, all while supporting a 1 billion dollar sports stadium on rail way line land.

    Thanks Goff (sarc) for contributing to ‘trust issues’ with Labour supporters and why right wingers love to say Labour does it too?
    • saveNZ 12.1

      27 October 2016 at 1:07 pm

      AT Board of Directors (less elected directors Christine Fletcher, Mike Lee if whoever is behind this gets their way).

      Chair: Dr Lester Levy

      Directors: Rabin Rabindran, Dr Ian Parton, Paul Lockey, Christine Fletcher, Mike Lee, Mark Gilbert, Geoff Dangerfield, Paula Rebstock

      Paula Rebstock….. National’s favourite crony
      • Sacha 12.1.1

        27 October 2016 at 1:17 pm

        “if whoever is behind this gets their way”

        The majority of the elected councillors, as noted yesterday:
        https://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-26102016/#comment-1250105

        #gasp
13. Herodotus 13

    27 October 2016 at 12:53 pm

    The Reserve Bank may finally get its way, by dropping the OCR.
    From chats with corporate bankers they are telling me that any further drop will not result in mortgage or business interest rates being reduced. As banks are on very tight margins and need to widen the gap ( read this to mean maintain profit) But an OCR drop would most likely assist in the NZ$ being “devalued”.
    http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/money/73612560/asb-anz-bnz-and-westpac-rake-in-459-billion-of-profits
14. saveNZ 14

    27 October 2016 at 1:01 pm

    From TDB

    “The Daily Blog understands that Senior staff from Mangere Budgetary services are quitting.

    After 2 days in Wellington with Paula Bennett they have had it confirmed that 30 established services will be closed.

    17 new contracts have been awarded, the name of the services will be changed & all personal details of all clients using services have to be passed on to MSD.

    It is a fatal gutting of social services more focused on spying on clients personal details than any genuine concern for beneficiaries. Mandatory reporting of data will kill NZPC, Women’s Refuge and emergency rape services.”
    • Manuka AOR 14.1

      27 October 2016 at 5:44 pm

      & all personal details of all clients using services have to be passed on to MSD.

      This seems so very wrong. Those who sought help have no legal right to privacy whatsoever? And were not informed of this at the time the help was given?

      It is a fatal gutting of social services more focused on spying on clients personal details than any genuine concern for beneficiaries. Mandatory reporting of data will kill NZPC, Women’s Refuge and emergency rape services.”
    • Manuka AOR 14.2

      27 October 2016 at 6:06 pm

      Does the Privacy Act still have any relevance?
      https://www.privacy.org.nz/the-privacy-act-and-codes/privacy-act-and-codes-introduction/

      https://www.privacy.org.nz/the-privacy-act-and-codes/the-privacy-act/
      • Sacha 14.2.1

        27 October 2016 at 9:33 pm

        There is a set mechanism for sharing information between agencies – still problematic: https://privacy.org.nz/data-sharing/information-sharingapproved-information-sharing-agreements/
        • Manuka AOR 14.2.1.1

          28 October 2016 at 6:01 am

          a set mechanism for sharing information between agencies

          These are not government agencies. They are community groups including church agencies, women’s refuges and other community support groups, which had received funding through the Community Investment arm of the MSD:

          The move is raising fears that people fleeing violent relationships or in financial need may be scared off seeking help in case their disclosures are used to take their children off them, stop their benefits or arrest them for past crimes.

          Ministry of Social Development (MSD) deputy chief executive Murray Edridge says all 823 agencies funded by the ministry’s $330 million Community Investment arm will have to provide client details for funding by next July.

          Details will include each client’s name, address, date of birth, gender, ethnicity, iwi, country of birth, number of dependent children, birth date of the youngest dependant, and details about the service they receive.
          ——
          Trevor McGlinchey said the move was a step towards a “surveillance society” and would undermine people’s trust in non-government agencies.

          “The gathering of that identifiable data may cause some of the most vulnerable people with major issues not to come forward because they may feel that information could end up in the hands of the Government,” he said. http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=11730063
          • Sacha 14.2.1.1.1

            28 October 2016 at 7:14 am

            True. Wonder if that means they aren’t subject to the same constraints?
15. saveNZ 15

    27 October 2016 at 1:09 pm

    Record of Bad news, with National..

    NZ trade deficit widens to a record in September as meat exports fall

    On an annual basis, the country’s trade deficit was $3.4b, compared with an annual deficit of $3.17b in September last year. Annual exports totalled $48.58b in the year through September, while imports totalled $51.99b, according to the data.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11736933
    • Draco T Bastard 15.1

      27 October 2016 at 5:17 pm

      Well, if the forex was working as the economists tell us it does then we should expect the NZ$ to fall in line with the increased deficit.

      Unfortunately, it’s likely to do the opposite at the next OCR round.
16. repateet 16

    27 October 2016 at 4:03 pm

    Todays hard question:

    Guess which got more prominent treatment in the Herald online?
    a) “NZ trade deficit widens to a record in September as meat exports fall”
    or b) Max Key posts: ‘Real men ride women’
    • Paul 16.1

      27 October 2016 at 4:24 pm

      I think both point to the lack of any leadership from Key senior.
    • ianmac 16.2

      27 October 2016 at 4:51 pm

      “With the window rolled down, the driver (Max) shouts “real men ride women” at the cyclists. It does not appear anyone else is in the vehicle.”
      • Sacha 16.2.1

        27 October 2016 at 9:34 pm

        Daddy is not holding the camera.
17. Paul 17

    27 October 2016 at 4:07 pm

    When your Dad abuses workers by repeatedly pulling their hair when not asked to, it’s predictable his entitled and spoilt son would treat women with similar disrespect .
    There are words to describe Key senior and junior.

    http://m.nzherald.co.nz/entertainment/news/article.cfm?c_id=1501119&objectid=11737059
    • Richard Rawshark 17.1

      27 October 2016 at 4:48 pm

      Yeah I read that, Young Key, He should be on all the Labour posters coming election with that comment under it.

      Funny how these protected, sheltered and guarded and privileged youth get to spout off stuff that at a public forum would get the shit kicked out of them for saying.
    • Draco T Bastard 17.2

      27 October 2016 at 5:04 pm

      Clearly he didn’t mean to make the sort of comment that he made in the way he did

      Yeah he did – that’s why he made it.
      • Paul 17.2.1

        27 October 2016 at 6:17 pm

        Like father, like son.
        • te reo putake 17.2.1.1

          27 October 2016 at 6:35 pm

          Ha! I was mulling over a post on the Key men’s sexism and that was the title I came up with. The alternative was ‘Real Men Don’t Ride Women, they Fondle their Hair’
          • Paul 17.2.1.1.1

            27 October 2016 at 6:37 pm

            Chuck defends such behaviour by Key Senior and Junior.
            Politics overrides ethics for him.
            • adam 17.2.1.1.1.1

              27 October 2016 at 6:46 pm

              Come on Paul, you know he has no morals. Maybe if there was a conspiracy…
18. North 18

    27 October 2016 at 4:51 pm

    Can’t imagine Mummy Key being too stoked about punk’s carry-on. The fucked genes must be down to Daddy Key.

    To the trolls with their pious “Keep the kids out of it!” exhortations…….nah, game on.
    • Chuck 18.1

      27 October 2016 at 5:13 pm

      Yes please….North and any other far left activist out there go after Max and while you are at it his sister too.

      The result will be a couple more % points on election day to National.

      Nasty is not a vote winner… I would have thought that lesson had been learnt by now?
      • Gangnam Style 18.1.1

        27 October 2016 at 5:30 pm

        Whats Jason Ede up to these days? Sunday school teaching? If he’s not up to anything nasty on behalf of the Nats &/or their cronies then I will eat my hat.
      • joe90 18.1.2

        27 October 2016 at 5:35 pm

        Max and Master ‘white whiney faggots’ English really are chips off the old block.
        /
      • Paul 18.1.3

        27 October 2016 at 6:19 pm

        So why do you support Dirty Politics?
        • Chuck 18.1.3.1

          27 October 2016 at 6:39 pm

          Dirty Politics only matters to the activist left.

          Everyone else looked, yawned and voted.
      • Draco T Bastard 18.1.4

        27 October 2016 at 6:23 pm

        Why do you think we should allow people to get away with despicable behaviour?

        Doesn’t matter who they are – they should be called out on it.
        • Chuck 18.1.4.1

          27 October 2016 at 6:30 pm

          Just cooking dinner and watching One news…and guess what?

          Dad (John Key) has told junior off…a conversation that properly has occurred untold times between parents and teenage / young adult children all over NZ.

          North’s point to attack the Key children will be a disaster for the left…I guess that’s why Andy Little will never do it.
          • Paul 18.1.4.1.1

            27 October 2016 at 6:36 pm

            What disgusting behaviour don’t you defend when enacted by your heroes?
            • Chuck 18.1.4.1.1.1

              27 October 2016 at 6:45 pm

              Paul, I would have done the same thing as John Key.

              Told my son off, why it was wrong and to learn from it.
              • Gangnam Style …

                27 October 2016 at 7:41 pm

                Why is it wrong Chuck? Keen to hear.
                • Chuck …

                  27 October 2016 at 7:50 pm

                  I don’t think for one moment that you are stupid…so the only possible reason you have asked me that question is to try and twist what I reply with.

                  However if by chance I am wrong please let me know, and I will explain to you in simple terms why Max needed to be told off.
                  • Gangnam Style …

                    27 October 2016 at 8:04 pm

                    Yes I am interested in how YOU would frame it, I actually heard someone mention the comment was homophobic as well as misogynist, what do you think? (I think the comment was homophobic & misogynist & stupid, just so you know.)

                    “the only possible reason you have asked me that question is to try and twist what I reply with” – well that’s quite a jaundiced view you have there. I just want to see what you think was ‘wrong’ with the comment.

                    (I play a lot of online games, & hear a lot of people about the same age as Max talk & its quite atrocious & outright scary.)
                    • Chuck …

                      27 October 2016 at 8:16 pm

                      Ok fair enough…

                      I would not go as far as bringing up misogynist, but yep homophobic (real men) and disrespectful to women.

                      Gauging the reaction from your son (in this case Max) would determine any further action.

                      BTW I have a 21 year old son and 2 teen daughters, so have a understanding of what the young generation talk about these days.
                    • Muttonbird …

                      27 October 2016 at 8:20 pm

                      Hey Chuck. Would any of your three pull a stunt like Max Key did, and post it?
              • repateet …

                27 October 2016 at 7:54 pm

                I wonder if anyone has told the Herald off. Not for portraying the guy as an idiot but foisting him on the world as if he is important.
                • BM …

                  27 October 2016 at 7:59 pm

                  The Herald is now a sleazy tabloid paper on par with the News of the World or The Sun.

                  I would’nt even wipe my arse on it, it’s that bad.

                  Really disappointing the way it’s gone and does rather point out the down side of foreign ownership.
                  • Gangnam Style …

                    27 October 2016 at 8:18 pm

                    “and does rather point out the down side of foreign ownership.” No shit Sherlock! There was probably some ‘daft leftie’ moaning about this a few years back that you would have shallowly dismissed as ‘pious’ or ‘hysterical’ or some shite. On the wrong side of history yet again.
                    • Gangnam Style …

                      27 October 2016 at 8:22 pm

                      Can’t reply but cheers Chuck, I have daughters so it is something close to my heart, young men & how they treat women. I just wanted you to clarify your ‘tell them it was wrong’ coz I just was nosey to know if it was just a hollow platitude, glad to know I was wrong. Keep on rockin!
          • North 18.1.4.1.2

            27 October 2016 at 8:13 pm

            They really need to repeal the repeal of s.59 for about half an hour and send the snotty up-his-own-botty wee punk round the back of the gym to ‘chat’ with Joe Biden.
      • North 18.1.5

        27 October 2016 at 8:09 pm

        Said nothing about the sister Chuck. That’s your Trumpite shit. Guess you think it’s cool. “Real men ride women!” Dork Much! The punk and you.
        • Chuck 18.1.5.1

          27 October 2016 at 8:55 pm

          Then why did you say kids North?

          “To the trolls with their pious “Keep the kids out of it!” exhortations…….nah, game on.”

          Kid = one, Kids = more than one.

          Me thinks it’s North shit 🙂
          • North 18.1.5.1.1

            27 October 2016 at 9:40 pm

            Only quoting the pious Chuck. That all you got ? Real man you ?
    • Paul 18.2

      27 October 2016 at 6:24 pm

      It’s of sufficient concern to the Nat’s propaganda piece the Herald they are running a poll on the matter.
    • ianmac 18.3

      27 October 2016 at 7:16 pm

      Wonder if he could get a ticket for using a cell phone while driving? Nah. It is OK for a Key to do this.
    • BM 18.4

      27 October 2016 at 7:41 pm

      Big fucking deal, young guy does something stupid, that’s never happened before 🙄

      Anyway, Stop the presses !!! , Pious old lefty has panties in a bunch about a young man doing idiotic young man stuff.
      • ianmac 18.4.1

        27 October 2016 at 7:59 pm

        To be fair BM, Max has been used to bolster the John Key Family man image, and has chosen to be visible. What goes around…
        • BM 18.4.1.1

          27 October 2016 at 8:06 pm

          He’s still a young guy,, the human brain isn’t fully developed until you hit 25. like all young people he’s going to do stupid spire of the moment shit.

          We’ve all been there, It’s just not that big of a deal, the key thing is if he learns from his fuck ups and doesn’t do it again.
          • Muttonbird 18.4.1.1.1

            27 October 2016 at 8:08 pm

            His dad has put him in the public eye for political purposes so that’s where he shall reside.
            • North 18.4.1.1.1.1

              27 October 2016 at 8:22 pm

              Wow! Key’s ‘New Camelot’ gets fucked up everytime punk opens the surly mouth. Further to “Caught napping on Air Force One” for Christ’s Sake.

              Take your entitlement for a stroll down Robertson Road, Mangere…….boy. See how that goes.

              OK……the punk’s a dumb punk……speaks volumes about Daddy though. And I say that knowing that largely it’s down to the parents. Now who said that ?
              • BM …

                27 October 2016 at 8:35 pm

                Take your entitlement for a stroll down Robertson Road, Mangere…….boy. See how that goes.

                What are saying?, are they all savages in Robertson Road Mangere,?, attack any person who just walks down the street?
                • Muttonbird …

                  27 October 2016 at 8:37 pm

                  Not just ‘any person’. Just the bandana-wearing, abusive son of the prime minister who doesn’t care about Mangere.
                  • BM …

                    27 October 2016 at 8:44 pm

                    I’m not interested in watching the video, it just encourages the wankers at the herald, did Max Key shit all over Mangere or something?
                • North …

                  27 October 2016 at 9:42 pm

                  Piss reply Bowel.
                • North …

                  27 October 2016 at 9:57 pm

                  “savages” in Robertson Road. That’s your reflexive, gratuitous response. You exposing yourself ain’t my problem, egg.
          • Sacha 18.4.1.1.2

            27 October 2016 at 10:07 pm

            if only Key the younger would stop pimping himself about our (social) media, most of us would have nothing to miss. Bliss.
        • Muttonbird 18.4.1.2

          27 October 2016 at 8:06 pm

          This.

          John Key regularly uses his children to align himself with ‘the ordinary Kiwi parent’, musing the other day of his worries about his son getting king-hit and his daughter raped. These are his words.

          If it’s ok for him to use his kids as part of National Party marketing then it’s ok for their behaviour to be analysed.
          • Sacha 18.4.1.2.1

            27 October 2016 at 10:12 pm

            I’d say his kids use him as much as anything. Attention whores.
        • Gangnam Style 18.4.1.3

          27 October 2016 at 8:07 pm

          What other politicians children willingly lust after public attention like the PMs?
      • Muttonbird 18.4.2

        27 October 2016 at 8:02 pm

        That’s no ordinary young man. He could do a lot of damage to his dad, ‘specially with the women’s vote.
19. Gangnam Style 19

    27 October 2016 at 4:55 pm

    Just read in the paper my suburb of South Dunedin has a lot of dodgy power poles, South Dunedin is one of the poorest suburbs of the country so no surprise there that we get treated sub par. I just walked up Richardson St & nearly every 2nd/3rd pole is bent over, especially the poles carrying the transformers (or whatever they are called, the big square things), 100s of kids walk this road to & from one of Dunedins biggest primary schools. I must say the whole thing is ‘sub optimal’ & points to a major cluster fuck of managerial incompetence.
    • Richard Rawshark 19.1

      27 October 2016 at 4:57 pm

      I like the words SUB OPTIMAL.. fucking hill hairy arse.. sub optimal..

      you mean they are farked.
      • Gangnam Style 19.1.1

        27 October 2016 at 5:10 pm

        Yeah, one on the corner of the street is fucked, the one thats connected to the Inidian food outlet down the road is fucked, heres what the ODT published today.

        https://www.odt.co.nz/news/dunedin/detailed-map-dangerous-poles

        I just being cheeky with the word ‘sub optimal’ coz John Key used it, my wife had to ask me what ‘sub optimal’ means, I basically said what you just said ‘it means fucked’ & she said ‘why didn’t he just say so?’.
        • Pasupial 19.1.1.1

          27 October 2016 at 8:43 pm

          I mentioned the other day that the Duddingstone steps one shown in the ODT (on Tuesday? [edit: actually Saturday’s ODT – second link at the end of comment) was outside two schools. It’s actually across the street from DNI (right near the crossing though), but there’s plenty more to provide electrocution hazards:

          Eight power poles lining the road beside Dunedin North Intermediate school have been red-tagged. Five are deemed to be ”condition zero”, meaning they are in urgent need of replacement.

          The school’s principal, Heidi Hayward, said Delta had not been in contact to alert them of the danger their pupils could be in.

          https://www.odt.co.nz/news/dunedin/poles-ticking-time-bombs

          https://www.odt.co.nz/news/dunedin/call-heads-roll-delta
          • Gangnam Style 19.1.1.1.1

            27 October 2016 at 9:04 pm

            I did see your post, & I know Duddingstone steps. I think we have all got used to this old run down city, especially suburbs like South Dunedin & Opoho. I wonder if this is our ‘leaky buildings’ & maybe other towns will have similar problems too. I do remember reading about the infrastructure melt down of the USA some time ago.

            But walking up Richardson St today (where I have been walking to & from the school for the last 10 years or so) & now I can see these toppling power poles everywhere. I know people who live right in front of some that have decayed at the bottom, on the corner or East Ave (across the Rd from Kings) is a concrete power pole where the concrete has crumbled off & you can see the steel reinforcement inside.

            The one outside the Indian takeaways (Tandoree Garden on Prince Albert St) amazed me because it goes through the awning & the awning & building must be well over 50-70 years old! People have no idea. Thank goodness for this whistle blower & the ol’ ODT, it’s a right wing rag but at least it writes about Dunedin issues & is independent.
20. TopHat 20

    27 October 2016 at 5:28 pm

    I have a suggestion for a better use of police time than running breath tests as intel gathering exercises, get them to address address the use of cell phones while driving: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/entertainment/news/article.cfm?c_id=1501119&objectid=11737059

    I wonder, would the police consider charges? It is after all against the law, about as stupid as drink driving with results somewhat alike.

    And the comment he makes has got to earn him some acrimony ? 😉
    • ropata 20.1

      27 October 2016 at 6:37 pm

      I have at least 3 near death experiences a week from useless drivers round Auckland,

      1 x bus running a red light on pedestrian phase, nearly hit me and a cyclist
      1 x bus failing to indicate and pulling out without looking, nearly hit me, then later blasted thru a give way, nearly hit me again!
      1 x truck running a red light on pedestrian phase, seemed oblivious
      1 x oncoming car crossing double yellow lines at 100k (passing) into my face, too aggressive
      1 x oncoming SUV driving on wrong side down a hill (around parked bus) into my face, failing to give way, trying to intimidate me, obviously didn’t want to slow down
      1 x oncoming people mover driving on wrong side down a hill (around parked car) into my face, failing to give way, forcing me to stop (I had kids on board too)
      1 x oncoming boy racer driving on wrong side down a hill (for no reason) into my face, failing to give way, forcing me to stop

      I am getting a dashcam, this is disgusting.
      People routinely ignore stop signs, don’t give a shit about indicating or keeping left or general safety.
      There are just not enough cops around.
      • TopHat 20.1.1

        27 October 2016 at 6:43 pm

        Yeah look I agree. I used to do 20K kilometers a year in and around Wellington and the stress of it has seen me give up driving in full.
      • Manuka AOR 20.1.2

        27 October 2016 at 9:54 pm

        Time to move out of that city?
        There’s a much more peaceful world away from it.
        • ropata 20.1.2.1

          28 October 2016 at 1:24 pm

          True, I was a South Islander for 10 years but got bored 😛
21. weka 21

    27 October 2016 at 11:00 pm

    [In order to keep OM and DR free for other conversations, all comments, link postings etc about the US election now need to go in the dedicated US election discussion here.

    If you are unsure, post in that thread rather than here. It’s not possible for moderators to shift comments from OM to there, so any comments here may get deleted – weka]

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