US Election Discussion Post 27/10/16

Written By: - Date published: 8:59 am, October 27th, 2016 - 54 comments
Categories: uncategorized, us politics, you couldn't make this shit up - Tags: , ,

Matrix there is no spoon

In order to free up Open Mike and Daily Review for other conversations we are asking that all discussion, posting of links etc on the US election go in this daily dedicated thread rather than OM or DR.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

There will continue to be author-written posts on the US election as well, usual rules apply there too.

54 comments on “US Election Discussion Post 27/10/16 ”

  1. rhinocrates 1

    A couple of snippets this morning.

    http://www.cbsnews.com/news/wikileaks-documents-private-lives-become-collateral-damage/

    Assange doesn’t seem to care about “collateral damage”. Among its infodumps are the identity and personal details of the mentally ill, teenage rape victims, homosexuals in countries where homosexuality is punishable by death. These have nothing to do with exposing corruption which Wikileaks claims is its sole mission. This isn’t purposefully malicious, Assange just doesn’t give a fuck about people who get hurt along the way.

    The cartoonist who created Pepe the Frog is trying to save him from the Neo Nazis:

    https://www.good.is/articles/pepe-the-frog-hate-symbol-save-pepe

    Pepe has been appropriated as a symbol/code for Neo Nazis campaigning with Trump and his creator is not happy.

  2. Andre 2

    With CV temporarily absent, we’ve had a deficiency of Alex Jones nuttery lately. So for anyone feeling a bit deprived, here’s a topup. His rant’s a goody.

    http://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2016/10/26/13418304/alex-jones-jewish-mafia

    • joe90 2.1

      Michael Savage radio derangement.

      Far-right radio host Michael Savage expressed outrage yesterday about President Obama’s remarks at an event celebrating black music at the White House, claiming that the president is ushering in “the death of western civilization.”

      He was especially angry about the Obamas’ relationship with Beyoncé, who he called “beyond reason” before reading lyrics from her song “Formation.”

      “Isn’t it great to see western civilization knocked off its pedestal and replaced by this filth?” the right-wing commentator added. “So Obama has now opened the door and ushered in the absolute destruction of western civilization.”

      http://www.rightwingwatch.org/post/michael-savage-obama-is-using-beyonce-to-destroy-civilization/

    • rhinocrates 2.2

      Tinfoil jackboots?

  3. Olwyn 3

    A few days ago, Ad posed this rather tongue-in-cheek challenge: “Did the Democrats conspire with the Republicans deep within the Deep State to enable them to put up the only candidate who could possibly lose to Hillary Clinton?” https://thestandard.org.nz/us-election-discussion-post-241016/#comment-1249406

    I look forward to the day when people like Trump and Clinton are nowhere near public office, would vote for neither of them, and do not want to go down the conspiracy path presented. BUT, by making use of a lens of this kind (consent manufacture) you can see why so many lefties are currently shouting “alt right” and “neoliberal left” at each other.

    A = liberal stuff. B = potential war with Russia. C = racist, erratic and crazy. Clinton offers A & B, Trump offers C & not-B. You want A so you vote for Clinton, thus giving her the mandate to provoke a war against Russia, but hoping the constraints of office will prevent this. Someone else, also from the left, wants not-B (not war against Russia) hoping that the constraints of office will modify Trump’s C properties. The first lot think it irresponsible to trust a crazy guy to do or not-do anything, the second lot think it irresponsible to privilege liberal values over major hegemonic warfare.

    • left_forward 3.1

      Where is the evidence for Clinton wanting to provoke a war with Russia?

      • Olwyn 3.1.1

        Insisting on a no-fly zone in Syria points in that direction, as does her continuous and unnecessary demonisation of Putin. Beyond that, the taste she has so far shown for regime-change also points that way. But what I am trying to do here is clarify the values that seem to me to inform people’s attacks on each other – as I have said, I would not vote for either of them.

        • left_forward 3.1.1.1

          So again we see the problem of false equivalence – comparing your subjective concern about Clinton’s potential tactics in Syria against the overwhelming evidence of an erratic psychopath and giving them equal, mathematical weight in your case. Thus not supporting either of them and affording equal chance for the psychopath!

          • Olwyn 3.1.1.1.1

            What do you mean by “…your subjective concern about Clinton’s political tactics in Syria..”? There are people who think that Clinton’s tactics in Syria could lead to a full-scale war with Russia. That is not my subjective concern. And I simply do not get your false equivalence claim. If the above people are right about Clinton, that is a serious matter. If Trump is elected as president and turns out to be as mad as some people think he is, that too is a serious matter. But I am not giving either a strict mathematical value, I am merely trying to explain why this US election has set left-wingers at each others throats.

            • left_forward 3.1.1.1.1.1

              OK Olwyn – apologies – not ‘your’ subjective concern.
              In justifying your sitting-on-the-fence, you give equal weight to the ‘some’ who you say think that Clinton’s motives are for a full-scale war with Russia, compared to the millions (not ‘some’) of people throughout the world who know that Trump is a psychopath (I didn’t say mad).
              That is what is meant by false equivalence.

              • Olwyn

                I don’t know that ‘millions and millions of people throughout the world’ do know that Trump is a psychopath. For myself, I really do detest the kind of politics that both of them represent, so I am not exactly sitting on the fence. If I was a citizen of the US, I would be a Bernie supporter, and would now be interested in getting like-minded people into congress seats. In the presidential election I would most likely vote for Jill Stein, as a vote for common decency. I could never vote for a person who publicly giggled at the murder of a man whose body was defiled by those who killed him, and I am not keen either on a fellow whose views (where I can discern them) seem such a long way from my own, and whose campaign is more like a circus than a bid for high office. But now I’m going to leave it at that. If you deign to answer me, you can have the last word.

          • dukeofurl 3.1.1.1.2

            Thats right. What they leave out of Clintons statement about the ‘no fly zone’ was the other words she said about it ‘being used as leverage for a diplomatic solution’
            I personally think its wishful thinking about getting diplomatic leverage this way and Im sure the officials in Defence and State will tell as much when she becomes President.

            PS interesting bit about how the US came to call their leader President- which at the time was about the most non descript word they could think of.
            http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=250990126

        • Peter Swift 3.1.1.2

          “the taste she has so far shown for regime-change also points that way”

          When barrel bombs and chlorine are used against civilian non combatants by government forces, then regime change isn’t really the problem, but a logical conclusion of events which should be encouraged and not appeased and forgotten for political expediency.

          And no, I don’t care if wanting despots and mass murderers forcibly removed from office is frowned upon and used as a weapon by the weak willed or agenda driven anti humanity idealogues.
          You lose all credibility the moment you give defacto, by default support to people like the baby killer Assad. Why worry about your opinion?

          • In Vino 3.1.1.2.1

            ‘baby-murderer’…. Touching. Even better than the standard ‘mad dog’…

            I think I remember you claiming that you revile similar ‘collateral damage’ done by our side, but you seem to have vitriol only for the other. (I am going with the idea that ‘our side’ is still the pro-US idea that regime-change is more important than peace.)

            • Peter Swift 3.1.1.2.1.1

              You out yourself. You have zero evidence to support your hypothesis I’m pro US.

              • In Vino

                No, I am questioning your use of extremely emotive terms like ‘baby-murderer’ Holy Infanticide, Batman!

                • Peter Swift

                  The context was regime change, chlorine and barrel bombs against civilians.
                  So no, you’re defacto, by default supporting people like the baby killer Assad.
                  You argue as badly as cv.

      • Siobhan 3.1.2

        There may not be evidence she wants to provoke a war with Russia…just that she may provoke one by her policies…
        https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/oct/25/hillary-clinton-syria-no-fly-zones-russia-us-war

        • McFlock 3.1.2.1

          What, like how turkey and Russia went to war after the Turks shot down a Russian plane?

          • Siobhan 3.1.2.1.1

            “could escalate”, that means part of an escalation rather than…plane shot down…President presses Nuclear Button….

            I found this bit interesting
            “David Deptula, a retired air force lieutenant general who commanded the no-fly zone operations over northern Iraq in 1998 and 1999, said the Russians were a “complicating factor” but considered the problems with a no-fly zone to be more fundamental.
            “Until a strategy that defines the desired end-state is clearly laid out in a comprehensive way, it’s difficult to advocate for a no-fly zone,” said Deptula.”

            That bit is important – ‘a strategy that defines the desired end-state’.

            That little issue has pretty much dictated every single misstep America has made in the Middle East etc. They go marching, well, flying in, without actually figuring out the end goal and how to implement said end goal…or in fact if anyone on the ground agrees with the Americans particular version of ‘end goal’.,

            • McFlock 3.1.2.1.1.1

              So about as much evidence as anyone else on the planet “may provoke” a warif they became president.

        • left_forward 3.1.2.2

          Thanks for the link Siobhan. In the context of this thread then, her intent with her no fly zone policy is to protect innocent Syrian citizens, a humanitarian concern – far from being the dangerous proponent of war that she was portrayed to be.

          • Manuka AOR 3.1.2.2.1

            Exactly. And for one main reason why they do not want it (from that link):

            Critics of the plan also question how using US military power to establish and police a safe space for beleaguered Syrian civilians would contribute to the downfall of President Bashar al-Assad – the explicit goal of US policy in Syria.

          • Siobhan 3.1.2.2.2

            You might find this interesting…”The best way to help Israel deal with Iran’s growing nuclear capability is to help the people of
            Syria overthrow the regime of Bashar Assad.”

            https://wikileaks.org/clinton-emails/emailid/18328

    • Manuka AOR 3.2

      I’m not sure why you think that Trump would “avoid war with Russia”

      Any claims he may have made along those lines carry as much weight as his “No body respects women as much as I do”.

      • Olwyn 3.2.1

        Your view conforms with what I have said in taking one of the sides I have outlined – you are essentially saying that “…it is irresponsible to trust a crazy guy to do or not-do anything.”

        • Manuka AOR 3.2.1.1

          You wrote, Trump offers C & not-B. “not-B” being potential war with Russia.

          Why do you say that Trump is offering “no potential war with Russia”?

          • Olwyn 3.2.1.1.1

            While Trump’s statements are often ambiguous, he has suggested a more conciliatory attitude to Russia on various occasions. Here is a recent article that references these kinds of statements of his: http://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2016/10/25/is-trump-right-about-putin

            • Manuka AOR 3.2.1.1.1.1

              Informative link – Thanks.

            • Andre 3.2.1.1.1.2

              “Ambiguous” isn’t the only term for Trump’s statements, it’s also that he puts out many different contradictory positions. Which makes it easy for the listener to choose what he/she wants to hear and ignore the rest.

              So out of all of that, there is a small chance that he may choose a path that ends up going in reasonably good direction and end up being “right” in a stopped-clock kind of way. But given his history of bullying, bluster, wilful ignorance and unwillingness to heed advice, the chances of an unfavourable outcome look much higher.

    • Manuka AOR 3.3

      Trump provokes war even in his own camp and within his own party. How he is expected to suddenly develop diplomatic skills that can take a lifetime to evolve, I don’t know. Even his one time idol Putin has expressed contempt for him, – after the video came out of Trump’s denigration of women. (Do I need to find that link again?)

    • Bill 3.4

      Pretty much in agreement with that lens you’re using. And yeah, roll on the day that no people like either of them are anywhere near public office.

      • dukeofurl 3.4.1

        Ah history could prove you wrong. Its never been a choice of the ‘best of the best’ and previous background is forgotten once they lead.

        Who would have thought someone with a background in one of the nasty big UK banks finding ways for oil companies to make more money could have led Scotland to almost winning independence ?

    • McFlock 3.5

      Geopolitics being done rationally by someone with a brain and moderate amounts of empathy is far safer than being done by an empathy-challenged narcissistic idiot, in my opinion.

      So I’m not sure your B/not-B attributions are reasonable.

      • Bill 3.5.1

        Are you suggesting Clinton has a meaningful measure of empathy? Just thinking the whole – “We came, we saw, they died” thing. And sure there are probably instances where empathy seemed to be in play. But was it spontaneous or unscripted?

        As for brain – if you mean cunning, then yes. If you mean intelligence, then meh.

        But sure, as a hypothetical based on, perhaps, ‘less cynical’ assumptions than mine, your reservations make sense.

        • McFlock 3.5.1.1

          Without comparison to Trump, yes, I think she does have a reasonable amount of empathy. The “We came, we saw, they died” thing was pretty reasonable given the circumstances. It doesn’t mean she’s any less empathetic than a surgeon who cuts people open every day.

          Senior levels of government – any government – are some of the few roles where any decision you make will kill people. You have to get used to that. I think Clinton (and Obama) thinks about that, and tries to prioritise less death rather than being careless as to the butcher’s bill – although I’m not sure what ‘exchange rate’ she has for foreign vs US citizen deaths.

          Even without that, I’ve had a chuckle at some of the Darwin Award entries. That doesn’t mean an absence of a meaningful level of empathy. Distance lessens impact.

          • Olwyn 3.5.1.1.1

            We came, we saw, they died” thing was pretty reasonable given the circumstances.

            While you may be right about Clinton’s superior rationality, I simply cannot agree with you about this one. The fact that I seem to be one of just a few who get upset about it always surprises me. I accept that high rank often renders someone instrumental in the deaths of others, but this kind of talk shows utter blindness to the requirement of showing respect to a defeated enemy. It also sets an abysmal standard for the armed forces who are doing her bidding – it’s like saying, “Kick them around all you want – it doesn’t matter, they’re just trash.” Hence I think that such talk, particularly when it is in public, renders you unfit for high office.

            This doesn’t mean I support Trump – I just think things have reached the point where the least-worst is no longer a real option.

            • Andre 3.5.1.1.1.1

              If gritting your teeth, swallowing hard, and choosing the least worst is no longer an option, what’s the way forward? Gore-Bush-Nader 2000 gives the lesson of what happens when enough people reject the idea of choosing the lesser of two evils.

              • Olwyn

                I like Bernie’s way forward – working to get good people standing for congress. If successful, this will help to hold whoever is president to account, and perhaps also make a difference to the kind of people who are put forward in the future as presidential candidates.

                • Andre

                  Yep, and Sanders and Warren have also been pretty clear Hillary has a choice: honour her progressive commitments and have them as allies, or “pivot to the center” and they’ll work just as hard as the Repugs to make her life hell (but from the other side).

                  But for them to have any influence, they need Hillary and not Trump.

            • McFlock 3.5.1.1.1.2

              Oh come on, we’re not talking about using his skull as a candle-holder. It was a flippant comment upon receiving initial rumours that he might be dead. There’s no “requirement” against that.

              The guy was a jerk and few if any really mourned his passing, and quite a few celebrated it. If a pithy little line about his death upsets you, you’d have been puking at some of the jokes we were saying in the pub when princess di died (to be fair, the reaction and coverage to her crash was waaaaay over the top).

              • Olwyn

                The people at the pub do not generally hold high office, and even if at your pub they do, they are chewing the fat at the pub. Speaking on TV, as a part of the government, is a different matter.

                • McFlock

                  As an initial reaction to media rumours, I think it was fine. I certainly don’t agree that it sends a bad message to the military. In fact it describes the basic role of that se rvice. Strikes me as pretty tame, even for pretrump days.

  4. joe90 4

    Temperament of a twelve year old.

    The intense ambitions and undisciplined behaviors of Mr. Trump have confounded even those close to him, especially as his presidential campaign comes to a tumultuous end, and he confronts the possibility of the most stinging defeat of his life. But in the more than five hours of conversations — the last extensive biographical interviews Mr. Trump granted before running for president — a powerful driving force emerges: his deep-seated fear of public embarrassment.

    The recordings reveal a man who is fixated on his own celebrity, anxious about losing his status and contemptuous of those who fall from grace. They capture the visceral pleasure he derives from fighting, his willful lack of interest in history, his reluctance to reflect on his life and his belief that most people do not deserve his respect.

    In the interviews, Mr. Trump makes clear just how difficult it is for him to imagine — let alone accept — defeat.

    […]

    There is little trace of sympathy or understanding. When people lose face, Mr. Trump’s reaction is swift and unforgiving.

    And when Mr. Trump feels he has been made a fool of, his response can be volcanic. Ivana Trump told Mr. D’Antonio about a Colorado ski vacation she took with Mr. Trump soon after they began dating. The future Mrs. Trump had not told her boyfriend that she was an accomplished skier. As she recalls it, Mr. Trump went down the hill first and waited for her at the bottom:

    IVANA TRUMP: So he goes and stops, and he says, “Come on, baby. Come on, baby.” I went up. I went two flips up in the air, two flips in front of him. I disappeared. Donald was so angry, he took off his skis, his ski boots, and walked up to the restaurant. … He could not take it. He could not take it

    .

    Audio
    Play
    Ivana Trump on Skiing 0:35

    He had been bested in public. As he stormed off the slope, leaving behind a trail of equipment, she recalled, Mr. Trump could not contain his embarrassment.

    “I’m not going to do this,” she recalled him saying, “for anybody, including Ivana.”

    http://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/26/us/politics/donald-trump-interviews.html?_r=1

    edit: alternative link http://archive.li/soI1y

  5. Andre 6

    Some down-ballot Republicans think it’s defamatory to suggest they might support Trump.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/republicans-are-threatening-lawsuits-to-block-ads-tying_us_5810c2aae4b0fca2eb126183

  6. Manuka AOR 7

    Libertarian candidate bows out – warns supporters to not vote for Trump:

    Accepting that his presidential bid will fail, Libertarian vice presidential candidate Bill Weld on Tuesday obliquely urged voters to vote for Hillary Clinton.

    In a Tuesday statement addressed to “those in the electorate who remain torn between two so-called major party candidates,” the former Massachusetts governor told Republicans not to vote for the GOP nominee out of “fear for our country.”

    “After careful observation and reflection, I have come to believe that Donald Trump, if elected President of the United States, would not be able to stand up to this pressure and this criticism without becoming unhinged and unable to perform competently the duties of his office,” he said at a Boston press conference.

    Weld ticks off a long list of what he sees as Trump’s flaws, including his childish response to criticism, divisive rhetoric about immigrants and minorities, instability, and lack of familiarity with policy.

    While Weld said he will see his bid with Gary Johnson through to Election Day, he acknowledged that the Libertarian Party ticket, which has languished far behind in the polls, will not break “the two party monopoly” this year. He announced in early October that he would spend the rest of the campaign cycle speaking out against Trump. http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/bill-weld-tells-voters-pick-clinton-over-trump

    • dukeofurl 7.1

      Surely you should say ‘urges supporters to vote for Clinton’ without mentioning her name.
      Funny that

      • Ad 7.1.1

        There’s no problem.
        Adele came out for Clinton yesterday, live at her concert.
        So Clinton will win with that fan base alone. 😉

  7. joe90 8

    Some of these pricks make blubber boy look like a choir boy.

    .

    Great America PAC began airing radio ads earlier this month in eight key battleground states — including Florida and Ohio — that uses several out-of-context quotes by Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama to suggest the Democrats are deceiving black voters.

    Benton, who took a reduced role in the PAC after he was convicted in May of buying a senator’s endorsement while working for Ron Paul in the 2012 election, told the undercover reporters how he hoped the ads and other schemes would drive down voter turnout among likely Hillary Clinton supporters.
    Report Advertisement

    “In Cleveland, if we can return Hillary to normal turnout levels … we can turn her to regular turnout levels she’s gonna lose about 60,000 votes in that area – that’s dead heat,” Benton said in the video, recorded Oct. 13 at a New York hotel. “So we have a voter suppression campaign quite frankly, targeting African-Americans, and sort of suburban moms, just bad stuff about Hillary, just trying to take their taste for her away.”

    http://www.rawstory.com/2016/10/revealed-shady-pro-trump-pac-targeting-blacks-and-suburban-moms-with-voter-suppression-campaign/

  8. Ovid 9

    Epic Rap Battles of History does Donald vs Hillary

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kbryz0mxuMY

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  • Wang Yi’s perfectly-timed, Aukus-themed visit to New Zealand
    Geoffrey Miller writes – Timing is everything. And from China’s perspective, this week’s visit by its foreign minister to New Zealand could be coming at just the right moment. The visit by Wang Yi to Wellington will be his first since 2017. Anniversaries are important to Beijing. ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    1 day ago
  • Gordon Campbell on Dune 2, and images of Islam
    Depictions of Islam in Western popular culture have rarely been positive, even before 9/11. Five years on from the mosque shootings, this is one of the cultural headwinds that the Muslim community has to battle against. Whatever messages of tolerance and inclusion are offered in daylight, much of our culture ...
    1 day ago
  • New Rail Operations Centre Promises Better Train Services
    Last week Transport Minster Simeon Brown and Mayor Wayne Brown opened the new Auckland Rail Operations Centre. The new train control centre will see teams from KiwiRail, Auckland Transport and Auckland One Rail working more closely together to improve train services across the city. The Auckland Rail Operations Centre in ...
    2 days ago
  • Bernard's six newsy things at 6.36am on Monday, March 18
    Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāTL;DR: Retiring former Labour Finance Minister Grant Robertson said in an exit interview with Q+A yesterday the Government can and should sustain more debt to invest in infrastructure for future generations. Elsewhere in the news in Aotearoa-NZ’s political economy at 6:36am: Read more ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    2 days ago
  • Geoffrey Miller: Wang Yi’s perfectly-timed, Aukus-themed visit to New Zealand
    Timing is everything. And from China’s perspective, this week’s visit by its foreign minister to New Zealand could be coming at just the right moment. The visit by Wang Yi to Wellington will be his first since 2017. Anniversaries are important to Beijing. It is more than just a happy ...
    Democracy ProjectBy Geoffrey Miller
    2 days ago
  • The Kaka’s diary for the week to March 25 and beyond
    TL;DR: The key events to watch in Aotearoa-NZ’s political economy in the week to March 18 include:China’s Foreign Minister visiting Wellington today;A post-cabinet news conference this afternoon; the resumption of Parliament on Tuesday for two weeks before Easter;retiring former Labour Finance Minister Grant Robertson gives his valedictory speech in Parliament; ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    2 days ago
  • Bitter and angry; Winston First
    New Zealand First Leader Winston Peters’s state-of-the-nation speech on Sunday was really a state-of-Winston-First speech. He barely mentioned any of the Government’s key policies and could not even wholly endorse its signature income tax cuts. Instead, he rehearsed all of his complaints about the Ardern Government, including an extraordinary claim ...
    PolitikBy Richard Harman
    2 days ago
  • 2024 SkS Weekly Climate Change & Global Warming News Roundup #11
    A listing of 35 news and opinion articles we found interesting and shared on social media during the past week: Sun, March 10, 2024 thru Sat, March 16, 2024. Story of the week This week we'll give you a little glimpse into how we collect links to share and ...
    2 days ago
  • 2024 SkS Weekly Climate Change & Global Warming News Roundup #11
    A listing of 35 news and opinion articles we found interesting and shared on social media during the past week: Sun, March 10, 2024 thru Sat, March 16, 2024. Story of the week This week we'll give you a little glimpse into how we collect links to share and ...
    2 days ago
  • Out of Touch.
    “I’ve been internalising a really complicated situation in my head.”When they kept telling us we should wait until we get to know him, were they taking the piss? Was it a case of, if you think this is bad, wait till you get to know the real Christopher, after the ...
    Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel
    2 days ago
  • Bring out your Dad
    Happy fourth anniversary, Pandemic That Upended Bloody Everything. I have been observing it by enjoying my second bout of COVID. It’s 5.30 on Sunday morning and only now are lights turning back on for me.Allow me to copy and paste what I told reader Sara yesterday:Depleted, fogged and crappy. Resting, ...
    More Than A FeildingBy David Slack
    3 days ago
  • Bring out your Dad
    Happy fourth anniversary, Pandemic That Upended Bloody Everything. I have been observing it by enjoying my second bout of COVID. It’s 5.30 on Sunday morning and only now are lights turning back on for me.Allow me to copy and paste what I told reader Sara yesterday:Depleted, fogged and crappy. Resting, ...
    More Than A FeildingBy David Slack
    3 days ago
  • Bring out your Dad
    Happy fourth anniversary, Pandemic That Upended Bloody Everything. I have been observing it by enjoying my second bout of COVID. It’s 5.30 on Sunday morning and only now are lights turning back on for me.Allow me to copy and paste what I told reader Sara yesterday:Depleted, fogged and crappy. Resting, ...
    More Than A FeildingBy David Slack
    3 days ago
  • The bewildering world of Chris Luxon – Guns for all, not no lunch for kids
    .“$10 and a target that bleeds” - Bleeding Targets for Under $10!.Thanks for reading Frankly Speaking ! Subscribe for free to receive new posts and support my work.This government appears hell-bent on either scrapping life-saving legislation or reintroducing things that - frustrated critics insist - will be dangerous and likely ...
    Frankly SpeakingBy Frank Macskasy
    3 days ago
  • Expert Opinion: Ageing Boomers, Laurie & Les, Talk Politics.
    It hardly strikes me as fair to criticise a government for doing exactly what it said it was going to do. For actually keeping its promises.”THUNDER WAS PLAYING TAG with lightning flashes amongst the distant peaks. Its rolling cadences interrupted by the here-I-come-here-I-go Doppler effect of the occasional passing car. ...
    3 days ago
  • Manufacturing The Truth.
    Subversive & Disruptive Technologies: Just as happened with that other great regulator of the masses, the Medieval Church, the advent of a new and hard-to-control technology – the Internet –  is weakening the ties that bind. Then, and now, those who enjoy a monopoly on the dissemination of lies, cannot and will ...
    3 days ago
  • A Powerful Sensation of Déjà Vu.
    Been Here Before: To find the precedents for what this Coalition Government is proposing, it is necessary to return to the “glory days” of Muldoonism.THE COALITION GOVERNMENT has celebrated its first 100 days in office by checking-off the last of its listed commitments. It remains, however, an angry government. It ...
    3 days ago
  • Can you guess where world attention is focussed (according to Greenpeace)? It’s focussed on an EPA...
    Bob Edlin writes –  And what is the world watching today…? The email newsletter from Associated Press which landed in our mailbox early this morning advised: In the news today: The father of a school shooter has been found guilty of involuntary manslaughter; prosecutors in Trump’s hush-money case ...
    Point of OrderBy Bob Edlin
    3 days ago
  • Further integrity problems for the Greens in suspending MP Darleen Tana
    Bryce Edwards writes – Is another Green MP on their way out? And are the Greens severely tarnished by another integrity scandal? For the second time in three months, the Green Party has secretly suspended an MP over integrity issues. Mystery is surrounding the party’s decision to ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    3 days ago
  • Jacqui Van Der Kaay: Greens’ transparency missing in action
    For the last few years, the Green Party has been the party that has managed to avoid the plague of multiple scandals that have beleaguered other political parties. It appears that their luck has run out with a second scandal which, unfortunately for them, coincided with Golraz Ghahraman, the focus ...
    Democracy ProjectBy bryce.edwards
    4 days ago
  • Bernard’s Dawn Chorus with six newsey things at 6:46am for Saturday, March 16
    TL;DR: The six newsey things that stood out to me as of 6:46am on Saturday, March 16.Andy Foster has accidentally allowed a Labour/Green amendment to cut road user chargers for plug-in hybrid vehicles, which the Government might accept; NZ Herald Thomas Coughlan Simeon Brown has rejected a plea from Westport ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    4 days ago
  • How Did FTX Crash?
    What seemed a booming success a couple of years ago has collapsed into fraud convictions.I looked at the crash of FTX (short for ‘Futures Exchange’) in November 2022 to see whether it would impact on the financial system as a whole. Fortunately there was barely a ripple, probably because it ...
    PunditBy Brian Easton
    4 days ago
  • Elections in Russia and Ukraine
    Anybody following the situation in Ukraine and Russia would probably have been amused by a recent Tweet on X NATO seems to be putting in an awful lot of effort to influence what is, at least according to them, a sham election in an autocracy.When do the Ukrainians go to ...
    4 days ago
  • Bernard’s six stack of substacks at 6pm on March 15
    TL;DR: Shaun Baker on Wynyard Quarter's transformation. Magdalene Taylor on the problem with smart phones. How private equity are now all over reinsurance. Dylan Cleaver on rugby and CTE. Emily Atkin on ‘Big Meat’ looking like ‘Big Oil’.Bernard’s six-stack of substacks at 6pm on March 15Photo by Jeppe Hove Jensen ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    4 days ago
  • Buzz from the Beehive Finance Minister Nicola Willis had plenty to say when addressing the Auckland Business Chamber on the economic growth that (she tells us) is flagging more than we thought. But the government intends to put new life into it:  We want our country to be a ...
    Point of OrderBy Bob Edlin
    4 days ago
  • National’s clean car tax advances
    The Transport and Infrastructure Committee has reported back on the Road User Charges (Light Electric RUC Vehicles) Amendment Bill, basicly rubberstamping it. While there was widespread support among submitters for the principle that EV and PHEV drivers should pay their fair share for the roads, they also overwhelmingly disagreed with ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    4 days ago
  • Government funding bailouts
    Peter Dunne writes – This week’s government bailout – the fifth in the last eighteen months – of the financially troubled Ruapehu Alpine Lifts company would have pleased many in the central North Island ski industry. The government’s stated rationale for the $7 million funding was that it ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    4 days ago
  • Two offenders, different treatments.
    See if you can spot the difference. An Iranian born female MP from a progressive party is accused of serial shoplifting. Her name is leaked to the media, which goes into a pack frenzy even before the Police launch an … Continue reading ...
    KiwipoliticoBy Pablo
    4 days ago
  • Treaty references omitted
    Ele Ludemann writes  – The government is omitting general Treaty references from legislation : The growth of Treaty of Waitangi clauses in legislation caused so much worry that a special oversight group was set up by the last Government in a bid to get greater coherence in the public service on Treaty ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    4 days ago
  • The Ghahraman Conflict
    What was that judge thinking? Peter Williams writes –  That Golriz Ghahraman and District Court Judge Maria Pecotic were once lawyer colleagues is incontrovertible. There is published evidence that they took at least one case to the Court of Appeal together. There was a report on ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    4 days ago
  • Bernard's Top 10 @ 10 'pick 'n' mix' for March 15
    TL;DR: My top 10 news and analysis links this morning include:Today’s must-read: Climate Scorpion – the sting is in the tail. Introducing planetary solvency. A paper via the University of Exeter’s Institute and Faculty of Actuaries.Local scoop: Kāinga Ora starts pulling out of its Auckland projects and selling land RNZ ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    4 days ago
  • The day Wellington up-zoned its future
    Wellington’s massively upzoned District Plan adds the opportunity for tens of thousands of new homes not just in the central city (such as these Webb St new builds) but also close to the CBD and public transport links. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāTL;DR: Wellington gave itself the chance of ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    4 days ago
  • Weekly Roundup 15-March-2024
    It’s Friday and we’re halfway through March Madness. Here’s some of the things that caught our attention this week. This Week in Greater Auckland On Monday Matt asked how we can get better event trains and an option for grade separating Morningside Dr. On Tuesday Matt looked into ...
    Greater AucklandBy Greater Auckland
    5 days ago
  • That Word.
    Something you might not know about me is that I’m quite a stubborn person. No, really. I don’t much care for criticism I think’s unfair or that I disagree with. Few of us do I suppose.Back when I was a drinker I’d sometimes respond defensively, even angrily. There are things ...
    Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel
    5 days ago
  • The Hoon around the week to March 15
    Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāTL;DR: The five things that mattered in Aotearoa’s political economy that we wrote and spoke about via The Kākā and elsewhere for paying subscribers in the last week included:PM Christopher Luxon said the reversal of interest deductibility for landlords was done to help renters, who ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    5 days ago
  • Labour’s policy gap
    It was not so much the Labour Party but really the Chris Hipkins party yesterday at Labour’s caucus retreat in Martinborough. The former Prime Minister was more or less consistent on wealth tax, which he was at best equivocal about, and social insurance, which he was not willing to revisit. ...
    PolitikBy Richard Harman
    5 days ago
  • Skeptical Science New Research for Week #11 2024
    Open access notables A Glimpse into the Future: The 2023 Ocean Temperature and Sea Ice Extremes in the Context of Longer-Term Climate Change, Kuhlbrodt et al., Bulletin of the American Meteorological Society: In the year 2023, we have seen extraordinary extrema in high sea surface temperature (SST) in the North Atlantic and in ...
    5 days ago
  • Melissa remains mute on media matters but has something to say (at a sporting event) about economic ...
     Buzz from the Beehive   The text reproduced above appears on a page which records all the media statements and speeches posted on the government’s official website by Melissa Lee as Minister of Media and Communications and/or by Jenny Marcroft, her Parliamentary Under-secretary.  It can be quickly analysed ...
    Point of OrderBy Bob Edlin
    5 days ago
  • The return of Muldoon
    For forty years, Robert Muldoon has been a dirty word in our politics. His style of government was so repulsive and authoritarian that the backlash to it helped set and entrench our constitutional norms. His pig-headedness over forcing through Think Big eventually gave us the RMA, with its participation and ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    5 days ago
  • Will the rental tax cut improve life for renters or landlords?
    Bryce Edwards writes –  Is the new government reducing tax on rental properties to benefit landlords or to cut the cost of rents? That’s the big question this week, after Associate Finance Minister David Seymour announced on Sunday that the Government would be reversing the Labour Government’s removal ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    5 days ago
  • Geoffrey Miller: What Saudi Arabia’s rapid changes mean for New Zealand
    Saudi Arabia is rarely far from the international spotlight. The war in Gaza has brought new scrutiny to Saudi plans to normalise relations with Israel, while the fifth anniversary of the controversial killing of Jamal Khashoggi was marked shortly before the war began on October 7. And as the home ...
    Democracy ProjectBy Geoffrey Miller
    5 days ago
  • Racism’s double standards
    Questions need to be asked on both sides of the world Peter Williams writes –   The NRL Judiciary hands down an eight week suspension to Sydney Roosters forward Spencer Leniu , an Auckland-born Samoan, after he calls Ezra Mam, Sydney-orn but of Aboriginal and Torres Strait ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    5 days ago
  • It’s not a tax break
    Ele Ludemann writes – Contrary to what many headlines and news stories are saying, residential landlords are not getting a tax break. The government is simply restoring to them the tax deductibility of interest they had until the previous government removed it. There is no logical reason ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    5 days ago
  • The Plastic Pig Collective and Chris' Imaginary Friends.
    I can't remember when it was goodMoments of happiness in bloomMaybe I just misunderstoodAll of the love we left behindWatching our flashbacks intertwineMemories I will never findIn spite of whatever you becomeForget that reckless thing turned onI think our lives have just begunI think our lives have just begunDoes anyone ...
    Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel
    5 days ago
  • Who is responsible for young offenders?
    Michael Bassett writes – At first reading, a front-page story in the New Zealand Herald on 13 March was bizarre. A group of severely intellectually limited teenagers, with little understanding of the law, have been pleading to the Justice Select Committee not to pass a bill dealing with ram ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    5 days ago
  • Gordon Campbell on National’s fantasy trip to La La Landlord Land
    How much political capital is Christopher Luxon willing to burn through in order to deliver his $2.9 billion gift to landlords? Evidently, Luxon is: (a) unable to cost the policy accurately. As Anna Burns-Francis pointed out to him on Breakfast TV, the original ”rock solid” $2.1 billion cost he was ...
    5 days ago
  • Bernard's Top 10 @ 10 'pick 'n' mix' for March 14
    TL;DR: My top 10 news and analysis links this morning include:Today’s must-read: Jonathon Porritt calling bullshit in his own blog post on mainstream climate science as ‘The New Denialism’.Local scoop: The Wellington City Council’s list of proposed changes to the IHP recommendations to be debated later today was leaked this ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    5 days ago
  • No, Prime Minister, rents don’t rise or fall with landlords’ costs
    TL;DR: Prime Minister Christopher Luxon said yesterday tenants should be grateful for the reinstatement of interest deductibility because landlords would pass on their lower tax costs in the form of lower rents. That would be true if landlords were regulated monopolies such as Transpower or Auckland Airport1, but they’re not, ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    5 days ago
  • Cartoons: ‘At least I didn’t make things awkward’
    This is a re-post from Yale Climate Connections by Tom Toro Tom Toro is a cartoonist and author. He has published over 200 cartoons in The New Yorker since 2010. His cartoons appear in Playboy, the Paris Review, the New York Times, American Bystander, and elsewhere. Related: What 10 EV lovers ...
    6 days ago
  • Solving traffic congestion with Richard Prebble
    The business section of the NZ Herald is full of opinion. Among the more opinionated of all is the ex-Minister of Transport, ex-Minister of Railways, ex MP for Auckland Central (1975-93, Labour), Wellington Central (1996-99, ACT, then list-2005), ex-leader of the ACT Party, uncle to actor Antonia, the veritable granddaddy ...
    Greater AucklandBy Patrick Reynolds
    6 days ago
  • I Think I'm Done Flying Boeing
    Hi,Just quickly — I’m blown away by the stories you’ve shared with me over the last week since I put out the ‘Gary’ podcast, where I told you about the time my friend’s flatmate killed the neighbour.And you keep telling me stories — in the comments section, and in my ...
    David FarrierBy David Farrier
    6 days ago
  • Invoking Aristotle: Of Rings of Power, Stones, and Ships
    The first season of Rings of Power was not awful. It was thoroughly underwhelming, yes, and left a lingering sense of disappointment, but it was more expensive mediocrity than catastrophe. I wrote at length about the series as it came out (see the Review section of the blog, and go ...
    6 days ago
  • Van Velden brings free-market approach to changing labour laws – but her colleagues stick to distr...
    Buzz from the Beehive Workplace Relations and Safety Minister Brooke van Velden told Auckland Business Chamber members they were the first audience to hear her priorities as a minister in a government committed to cutting red tape and regulations. She brandished her liberalising credentials, saying Flexible labour markets are the ...
    Point of OrderBy Bob Edlin
    6 days ago
  • Why Newshub failed
    Chris Trotter writes – TO UNDERSTAND WHY NEWSHUB FAILED, it is necessary to understand how TVNZ changed. Up until 1989, the state broadcaster had been funded by a broadcasting licence fee, collected from every citizen in possession of a television set, supplemented by a relatively modest (compared ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    6 days ago
  • Māori Party on the warpath against landlords and seabed miners – let’s see if mystical creature...
    Bob Edlin writes  –  The Māori Party has been busy issuing a mix of warnings and threats as its expresses its opposition to interest deductibility for landlords and the plans of seabed miners. It remains to be seen whether they  follow the example of indigenous litigants in Australia, ...
    Point of OrderBy Bob Edlin
    6 days ago

  • Government moves to quickly ratify the NZ-EU FTA
    "The Government is moving quickly to realise an additional $46 million in tariff savings in the EU market this season for Kiwi exporters,” Minister for Trade and Agriculture, Todd McClay says. Parliament is set, this week, to complete the final legislative processes required to bring the New Zealand – European ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 hours ago
  • Positive progress for social worker workforce
    New Zealand’s social workers are qualified, experienced, and more representative of the communities they serve, Social Development and Employment Minister Louise Upston says. “I want to acknowledge and applaud New Zealand’s social workers for the hard work they do, providing invaluable support for our most vulnerable. “To coincide with World ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    8 hours ago
  • Minister confirms reduced RUC rate for PHEVs
    Cabinet has agreed to a reduced road user charge (RUC) rate for plug-in hybrid electric vehicles (PHEVs), Transport Minister Simeon Brown says. Owners of PHEVs will be eligible for a reduced rate of $38 per 1,000km once all light electric vehicles (EVs) move into the RUC system from 1 April.  ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    10 hours ago
  • Trade access to overseas markets creates jobs
    Minister of Agriculture and Trade, Todd McClay, says that today’s opening of Riverland Foods manufacturing plant in Christchurch is a great example of how trade access to overseas markets creates jobs in New Zealand.  Speaking at the official opening of this state-of-the-art pet food factory the Minister noted that exports ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    11 hours ago
  • NZ and Chinese Foreign Ministers hold official talks
    Minister of Foreign Affairs Winston Peters met with Chinese Foreign Minister Wang Yi in Wellington today. “It was a pleasure to host Foreign Minister Wang Yi during his first official visit to New Zealand since 2017. Our discussions were wide-ranging and enabled engagement on many facets of New Zealand’s relationship with China, including trade, ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago
  • Kāinga Ora instructed to end Sustaining Tenancies
    Kāinga Ora – Homes & Communities has been instructed to end the Sustaining Tenancies Framework and take stronger measures against persistent antisocial behaviour by tenants, says Housing Minister Chris Bishop. “Earlier today Finance Minister Nicola Willis and I sent an interim Letter of Expectations to the Board of Kāinga Ora. ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago
  • Speech to Auckland Business Chamber: Growth is the answer
    Tēna koutou katoa. Greetings everyone. Thank you to the Auckland Chamber of Commerce and the Honourable Simon Bridges for hosting this address today. I acknowledge the business leaders in this room, the leaders and governors, the employers, the entrepreneurs, the investors, and the wealth creators. The coalition Government shares your ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Singapore rounds out regional trip
    Minister Winston Peters completed the final leg of his visit to South and South East Asia in Singapore today, where he focused on enhancing one of New Zealand’s indispensable strategic partnerships.      “Singapore is our most important defence partner in South East Asia, our fourth-largest trading partner and a ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Minister van Velden represents New Zealand at International Democracy Summit
    Minister of Internal Affairs and Workplace Relations and Safety, Hon. Brooke van Velden, will travel to the Republic of Korea to represent New Zealand at the Third Summit for Democracy on 18 March. The summit, hosted by the Republic of Korea, was first convened by the United States in 2021, ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Insurance Council of NZ Speech, 7 March 2024, Auckland
    ICNZ Speech 7 March 2024, Auckland  Acknowledgements and opening  Mōrena, ngā mihi nui. Ko Andrew Bayly aho, Nor Whanganui aho.  Good morning, it’s a privilege to be here to open the ICNZ annual conference, thank you to Mark for the Mihi Whakatau  My thanks to Tim Grafton for inviting me ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Five-year anniversary of Christchurch terror attacks
    Prime Minister Christopher Luxon and Lead Coordination Minister Judith Collins have expressed their deepest sympathy on the five-year anniversary of the Christchurch terror attacks. “March 15, 2019, was a day when families, communities and the country came together both in sorrow and solidarity,” Mr Luxon says.  “Today we pay our respects to the 51 shuhada ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Speech for Financial Advice NZ Conference 5 March 2024
    Speech for Financial Advice NZ Conference 5 March 2024  Acknowledgements and opening  Morena, Nga Mihi Nui.  Ko Andrew Bayly aho, Nor Whanganui aho. Thanks Nate for your Mihi Whakatau  Good morning. It’s a pleasure to formally open your conference this morning. What a lovely day in Wellington, What a great ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Early visit to Indonesia strengthens ties
    Foreign Minister Winston Peters held discussions in Jakarta today about the future of relations between New Zealand and South East Asia’s most populous country.   “We are in Jakarta so early in our new government’s term to reflect the huge importance we place on our relationship with Indonesia and South ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • China Foreign Minister to visit
    Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Foreign Affairs Winston Peters has announced that the Foreign Minister of China, Wang Yi, will visit New Zealand next week.  “We look forward to re-engaging with Foreign Minister Wang Yi and discussing the full breadth of the bilateral relationship, which is one of New Zealand’s ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Minister opens new Auckland Rail Operations Centre
    Transport Minister Simeon Brown has today opened the new Auckland Rail Operations Centre, which will bring together KiwiRail, Auckland Transport, and Auckland One Rail to improve service reliability for Aucklanders. “The recent train disruptions in Auckland have highlighted how important it is KiwiRail and Auckland’s rail agencies work together to ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Celebrating 10 years of Crankworx Rotorua
    The Government is proud to support the 10th edition of Crankworx Rotorua as the Crankworx World Tour returns to Rotorua from 16-24 March 2024, says Minister for Economic Development Melissa Lee.  “Over the past 10 years as Crankworx Rotorua has grown, so too have the economic and social benefits that ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Government delivering on tax commitments
    Legislation implementing coalition Government tax commitments and addressing long-standing tax anomalies will be progressed in Parliament next week, Finance Minister Nicola Willis says. The legislation is contained in an Amendment Paper to the Taxation (Annual Rates for 2023–24, Multinational Tax, and Remedial Matters) Bill issued today.  “The Amendment Paper represents ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Significant Natural Areas requirement to be suspended
    Associate Environment Minister Andrew Hoggard has today announced that the Government has agreed to suspend the requirement for councils to comply with the Significant Natural Areas (SNA) provisions of the National Policy Statement for Indigenous Biodiversity for three years, while it replaces the Resource Management Act (RMA).“As it stands, SNAs ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Government classifies drought conditions in Top of the South as medium-scale adverse event
    Agriculture Minister Todd McClay has classified the drought conditions in the Marlborough, Tasman, and Nelson districts as a medium-scale adverse event, acknowledging the challenging conditions facing farmers and growers in the district. “Parts of Marlborough, Tasman, and Nelson districts are in the grip of an intense dry spell. I know ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Government partnership to tackle $332m facial eczema problem
    The Government is helping farmers eradicate the significant impact of facial eczema (FE) in pastoral animals, Agriculture Minister Todd McClay announced.  “A $20 million partnership jointly funded by Beef + Lamb NZ, the Government, and the primary sector will save farmers an estimated NZD$332 million per year, and aims to ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • NZ, India chart path to enhanced relationship
    Foreign Minister Winston Peters has completed a successful visit to India, saying it was an important step in taking the relationship between the two countries to the next level.   “We have laid a strong foundation for the Coalition Government’s priority of enhancing New Zealand-India relations to generate significant future benefit for both countries,” says Mr Peters, ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Ruapehu Alpine Lifts bailout the last, say Ministers
    Cabinet has agreed to provide $7 million to ensure the 2024 ski season can go ahead on the Whakapapa ski field in the central North Island but has told the operator Ruapehu Alpine Lifts it is the last financial support it will receive from taxpayers. Cabinet also agreed to provide ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Govt takes action to drive better cancer services
    Health Minister Dr Shane Reti says the launch of a new mobile breast screening unit in Counties Manukau reinforces the coalition Government’s commitment to drive better cancer services for all New Zealanders. Speaking at the launch of the new mobile clinic, Dr Reti says it’s a great example of taking ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Govt takes action to drive better cancer services
    Health Minister Dr Shane Reti says the launch of a new mobile breast screening unit in Counties Manukau reinforces the coalition Government’s commitment to drive better cancer services for all New Zealanders. Speaking at the launch of the new mobile clinic, Dr Reti says it’s a great example of taking ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Work begins on SH29 upgrades near Tauriko
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