Open mike 28/04/2020

132 comments on “Open mike 28/04/2020 ”

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1. Tricledrown 1

   28 April 2020 at 7:15 am

   Nationals health spokes person making cheap political points.outhouse compares NZ to Singapore yet Singapore has a far worse problem than NZ. Then there is privacy Singapore is not a free democracy like NZ.
   • Poission 1.1

     28 April 2020 at 11:42 am

     Singapore is a stuffup,due to the handling of their indentured labour force.

     Singapore trails only China, India, Japan and Pakistan in Asia for the number of coronavirus infections. More than 10,000 of those infected, some 80% of its total, are foreign workers, many of whom have been placed in “isolation facilities” for people with mild symptoms such as the conference centers.

     https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-singapore-temp-hos-idUSKCN22805B
2. UncookedSelachimorpha 2

   28 April 2020 at 7:20 am

   National continues with its misguided idea of what an opposition party should contribute, with relentless negativity and totally uncontructive criticism – just for the sake of trying to "win", nothing about what helps NZ. They just have nothing to add, and you can bet their brilliant crew would do no better at any of the things they criticise.

   Covid-19 contact tracing app: National decries slow pace

   Two weeks is too long to wait for a contact tracing app for Covid-19, the National Party says.

   National's health spokesperson Michael Woodhouse said the Singaporean government offered the code for its app weeks ago, and the ministry should be moving faster.

   Anyone familiar with coding? I am guessing even with existing code to modify, for something of this scale two weeks is a very short time.

   No doubt Woodhouse would be complaining the app ‘was rushed’ if it had been out that quick…
   • JanM 2.1

     28 April 2020 at 8:00 am

     The penny finally dropped for me listening to Cameron Bagrie last night on Q&A justifying Simon Bridge's negative stance on the grounds that this was the opposition's job. So the justification is that you need to be oppositional even if you are just opening your mouth and letting the wind blow your tongue around. Good grief!
   • David 2.2

     28 April 2020 at 8:27 am

     Novapay
   • Carolyn_Nth 2.3

     28 April 2020 at 9:27 am

     The technological determinists seem to think everyone has a capable mobile phone, and, if they do have one, that it's on all the time.

     I have a little prepay, flip phone (AKA shell phone). Even if I could load such an ap on it, I rarely have it on, and rarely use it. Just need it for txts and those phone verification thingies.

     And those people who run out of funds to renew their plan?

     Plus, the PM and Bloomfield have continually stressed that contact tracing needs to be via personal communications with suspected contacts, not via an ap.
     • Sacha 2.3.1

       28 April 2020 at 9:32 am

       For contact tracing apps to work overall, not everyone needs to use them.
       • Carolyn_Nth 2.3.1.1

         28 April 2020 at 9:38 am

         What percentage approx needs to use them?
         • lprent 2.3.1.1.1

           28 April 2020 at 11:23 am

           My guesstimate…

           Close to 80% of the population to get close to manual contact tracing using Blutooth.

           At least 40% to be of use at all with Bluetooth.

           Best approach is to forget the Bluetooth and just to treat it as a diary of locations to assist memory when contract tracing. That alone would massively help because where available it will help cover memory gaps.

           But to me, that just defines National. Looking for ineffective quick fixes all of the time. Like the Canterbury earthquake responses.
           • Carolyn_Nth 2.3.1.1.1.1

             28 April 2020 at 12:32 pm

             Thanks. As an oldie, I intend not to go out and about any more than I need to. Keeping my own diary of contacts seems as useful to me as an ap.
           • Psycho Milt 2.3.1.1.1.2

             28 April 2020 at 1:15 pm

             Best approach is to forget the Bluetooth and just to treat it as a diary of locations to assist memory when contract tracing.

             God yes.

             Government wants me to install an app so it can monitor my location for contact tracing? Grumpy, but OK it's for the greater good.

             Government wants me to have Bluetooth switched on all the time and be charging my phone every few hours is what it would feel like? You can fuck right off, government.
             • Andre …

               28 April 2020 at 1:29 pm

               Yeah, I certainly wouldn't put something from the government on my phone that has bluetooth on all the time. And I'm the kind of person that wouldn't object to things like numberplate recognition cameras all around the place, nor do I do anything with my phone or have any info on it that would be of the slightest conceivable interest to anyone else.

               If bluetooth-based contact tracking became a requirement, I'd seriously look into just getting a burner phone for that alone. Which would make it more or less the same is the proposed Covid Card.
               • weka …

                 28 April 2020 at 1:35 pm

                 how do you see it differently from other things like widespread numberplate recognition cameras?
                 • Andre …

                   28 April 2020 at 1:46 pm

                   Entry vector for malware. Both from the government and malicious non-state actors.

                   It would be gathering data at several levels deeper in detail and more definitively personal.
                   • Sacha …

                     28 April 2020 at 4:27 pm

                     The protection for the public is in the arrangements around it, not the tech as such. But the battery drain sounds like a PITA in any case.
               • infused …

                 28 April 2020 at 7:20 pm

                 Ever seen a smart motorway? They are scanning your bluetooth signals and other data.

                 Same with wifi. You don't need to connect. Your phone is constantly sending becons.

                 Your phone compensates for this, but you can track people easily.
                 • Andre …

                   28 April 2020 at 7:33 pm

                   My phone bluetooth is always turned off. My phone wifi is turned off except for the few moments I need it on. My mobile data is turned off except the few moments I need it on, although since that goes to the same towers as voice and text it doesn't affect my trackability.
         • Sacha 2.3.1.1.2

           28 April 2020 at 4:25 pm

           From one Twitter discussion I saw between tech experts, even 30% sounded OK. Not nearly as high as I expected – though intended to be alongside manual tracing not replacing it.
   • joe90 2.4

     28 April 2020 at 10:38 am

     A cautionary tale about the monetisation of whizz-bang C19 tracking and one of the organisations involved.

     https://twitter.com/jsrailton/status/1254198212430368769

     https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1254198212430368769.html

     The infamous spyware maker from Israel NSO Group, and Cy4Gate, a company that sells surveillance tools from Italy, are actively pitching surveillance tools to contain the virus to their own governments and others around the world, Motherboard has learned.

     Their systems are essentially mass surveillance tools that would help governments and health authorities keep track of the movements of every citizen, and who they get in contact with. The goal of this contact tracing method is to track the spread of the coronavirus and help governments make better decisions to counter it, such as quarantining certain areas, informing people they may have been infected, or administering tests.

     Two weeks ago, Bloomberg reported that NSO Group developed a new product to track the spread of coronavirus. Now, Motherboard obtained more details about how the product—codenamed Fleming—actually works.

     https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/epg9jm/nso-covid-19-surveillance-tech-software-tracking-infected-privacy-experts-worried
   • lprent 2.5

     28 April 2020 at 11:15 am

     Michael Woodhouse is an idiot and clearly doesn't do software. Especially those designed to go out amongst millions of devices.

     I do. Even after you finally get the stuff done it usually takes months to get tested and 'right'. And it has to be right because if it messes up phones then the uptake will be minimal.

     Glad that they decided not to go for active BLE in the first pass. That is a very hard ask – sucks battery life , requires it to be an active service, and requires a lot of extra work to make sure that the OS doesn't shut it down. It most likely is the main reason for slow uptake of these kinds of apps.

     Also it won't do what the advocates of this kind of app would like it to do. It is no panacea. As much as anything else because you can't get saturation. Many people don't carry phones with them. Many others simply won't activate it.

     The manual contact tracking is still required and at much the same level. A app is only an minor add on.

     Woodhouse is pretty much cementing his reputation of being an idiot tosser.
     • Incognito 2.5.1

       28 April 2020 at 11:36 am

       The manual contact tracking is still required and at much the same level. A app is only an minor add on.

       QFT

       That said, the more people who will download it and use it correctly, the more helpful it will be.
     • Stunned Mullet 2.5.2

       28 April 2020 at 11:38 am

       I am a complete idiot that can't do anything involving software apart from the most basic fixes for my computer.

       Can you explain in laymans terms why we couldn't use the system they've pushed the button on in Australia or Singapore rather than doing it ourselves ?
     • RedLogix 2.5.3

       28 April 2020 at 3:07 pm

       So far Australia has had over 2m people download their version inside three days. The local tech community has gotten in behind and are supporting it's use.

       It's a doddle to install and the user really doesn't need to do anything.

       My old five year old Oppo Android phone seems to have had no impact on the battery life that I've noticed so far and works fine.

       And the way it's set up it's far less intrusive than Google or FB.

       With the lifting of restrictions we are entering the phase where testing and tracking are the vital tools; otherwise the effort so far could easily be wasted. Don't like the app, then keep a paper log. One or the other; but a $10k fine if you do nothing and catch it.
3. Tricledrown 3

   28 April 2020 at 7:38 am

   Nick Smith's email is causing Bridges more grief
4. Scumbag Andy 4

   28 April 2020 at 8:06 am

   Delightful morning at Level 2. Wait, what's that? It's level 3? But look at what people are doing. They can read, so the government must've changed the level overnight. Welp, business as usual.

   [I’ll give you more time to enjoy the delightful mornings for a whole week instead of wasting them on trolling this site – Incognito]
   • Incognito 4.1

     28 April 2020 at 11:00 am

     See my Moderation note @ 8:06 AM.
5. Blazer 5

   28 April 2020 at 8:20 am

   Even the revised TPPA had extensive clauses for business to sue Govts for loss of profits did it not?

   China can expect an avalanche of law suits I guess.
   • lprent 5.1

     28 April 2020 at 11:26 am

     And China was in the revised TPPA?

     Are you intent on getting a dumb troll trying cause a flame war ban? I guess it helps with the moron cred levels eh?

     Good thing I am off duty today.
     • Blazer 5.1.1

       28 April 2020 at 1:12 pm

       You're right it isn't.RCEP is the deal involving China.Don't get excited.
6. Morrissey 6

   28 April 2020 at 8:45 am

   "Mr Assange will not be produced today because he is unwell"

   A court clerk announced at Westminster Court today, during Assange's latest case hearing before Judge Vanessa Baraitser, that: "Mr Assange will not be produced today because I understand he is unwell".Assange's father John Shipton was present in court, wearing a mask: close to 80, he's in the high risk group for COVID, as is his son who has a chronic lung condition.

   This is the second time Assange has not been 'present' via videolink at his own hearings due to being 'unwell', but his counsel and the judge always motor ahead, getting nowhere.

   The US prosecution announced it's not against the delaying of the case until September or 'November 2', which would park the case in the midst of the US elections.
   The question is: if the case is delayed again for months, will Assange continue to be held in infected Belmarsh (23-and-a-half-hours a day in solitary lockdown – a couple of deaths noted and under-staffing with scores of guards self-isolating) even though he is (a) a remand prisoner (b) has no charges against him (c) has completed his Bail Act sentence.

   Assange defence lawyer Ed Fitzgerald's opening statement, this morning: https://bridgesforfreedom.media/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/EF-Opening-remarks-for-renewed-application-to-adjourn-24-04-20-4-updated.pdf

   Jonathan Cook tweets:

   “Judge delays for months Assange’s extradition hearing to the US for publishing journalism. There’s no excuse for denying him bail, and keeping him in a high-security jail, unless the hope is that Belmarsh’s Covid-19 outbreak will settle his case pre-emptively.”

   https://members5.boardhost.com/xxxxx/thread/1588008120.html
   • Mpk 6.1

     28 April 2020 at 2:28 pm

     Thanks for the update.
7. A 7

   28 April 2020 at 9:22 am

   Another one deported from Aussie and back to NZ, this time it's Ray Elise, Pres of Victorian Rebels MC

   Elise has a record in NZ of carrying an imitation firearm and unlawfully presenting it at a person.
   • Muttonbird 7.1

     28 April 2020 at 10:16 am

     No wonder Australia want trans-Tasman borders re-opened. So they can resume exporting crime.
8. satty 8

   28 April 2020 at 9:23 am

   Looks like the heating of the planet is going to continue:

   Meteorologists say 2020 on course to be hottest year since records began

   Of course, humankind had some weeks/months time to reflect (from link above):

   “The climate crisis continues unabated,” Haustein said. “The emissions will go down this year, but the concentrations keep on rising. We are very unlikely to be able to notice any slowdown in the built-up of atmospheric GHG levels. But we have the unique chance now to reconsider our choices and use the corona crisis as a catalyst for more sustainable means of transport and energy production (via incentives, taxes, carbon prices etc).”

   After seeing the traffic into Wellington this morning and reading reading article:

   Traffic returns to Auckland roads

   There's very little hope we avoid disaster, we continue trying our best to "Pollute ourselves to Prosperity".
   • bill 8.1

     28 April 2020 at 10:59 am

     If emissions are down, but concentration levels are continuing to rise, then that might suggest we've crossed a tipping point somewhere and global warming is no longer "under our control"…
     • Stunned Mullet 8.1.1

       28 April 2020 at 11:42 am

       Yes to a degree – but as the article says there's also considerable lag in the system so any actions/activities/feedbacks take a while to become apparent beyond the massive cracks in my lawn in late April.
     • Andre 8.1.2

       28 April 2020 at 11:48 am

       Emissions are down from their peak, but not negative. That concentrations are still rising just means emissions are greater than the earth's ability to absorb CO2 from the atmosphere. That's been true since sometime in the 1800s, if not much earlier.
       • bill 8.1.2.1

         28 April 2020 at 12:14 pm

         Emissions from our activities will never be negative Andre.

         The point about Anthropogenic Global Warming and straight up Global Warming is that tipping points (once crossed) mean that warming is being driven from sources other than human activity and nothing we do can alter eventual outcomes.

         I'd have thought it fairly obvious that a rise in atmospheric concentrations occurring in the face of dropping emissions (not a straight forward measurement btw because of natural, mostly seasonal fluctuations) is….not a good sign.
         • Andre 8.1.2.1.1

           28 April 2020 at 12:27 pm

           That concentrations are still rising even after a drop in emissions is indeed bad news, but it doesn't "suggest we've crossed a tipping point" anytime recently. That particular tipping point was crossed centuries ago.

           By itself it doesn't say anything one way or the other about whether non-anthropogenic sources have recently increased or decreased, nor whether the earth's capacity to absorb CO2 has decreased or increased.
           • bill 8.1.2.1.1.1

             28 April 2020 at 12:42 pm

             Unless your suggesting that the move from water powered mills to coal/steam powered mills back in the early to mid 1800s coincided with a non-human related source of CO2 being unleashed, then I'm a bit lost on what you might mean by "That particular tipping point was crossed centuries ago".

             There has always been a degree of wriggle room in the carbon cycle – which is why major volcanic eruptions (for example) have resulted in short term destabalisations and not wholesale irreversible shifts.

             I wrote "might suggest we've crossed a tipping point somewhere" – which is true, and the only indication we will ever have (as far as I'm aware) that a tipping point has been crossed.
             • Andre …

               28 April 2020 at 1:07 pm

               There is some evidence of ancient agriculture going back millenia causing detectable global warming.

               https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/09/180906141507.htm
               • bill …

                 28 April 2020 at 5:31 pm

                 I quit that piece at a paragraph or two in because in spite of the fact the world was in a cooling phase before fossil emissions halted and reversed the cooling, the piece asserts that It also shows that without this human influence, by the start of the Industrial Revolution, the planet would have likely been headed for another ice age.

                 That aside, in relation to your first response above, the piece does at least highlight why human emissions will never be negative – agriculture will always produce methane and CO2.
9. ianmac 9

   28 April 2020 at 9:36 am

   
   
   

   Trump Live – I think.
10. Cinny 10

    28 April 2020 at 9:37 am

    After two days of ranting on twitter, trump is doing a presser, looks like it's about to start.

    Here's a link (with open chat) if you wish to watch a live stream. Edit the chat is full of Maga people.
    • Morrissey 10.1

      28 April 2020 at 10:28 am

      Those people behind him on the podium are even scarier.
      • Stunned Mullet 10.1.1

        28 April 2020 at 11:43 am

        The chap on the right does have a great deal of the look of a ventriloquists dummy about him.
        • Morrissey 10.1.1.1

          28 April 2020 at 4:09 pm

          Unfortunately, he's far more dangerous than a ventriloquist's dummy. He would be in prison, of course, if the United States was not run by gangsters.

          https://theintercept.com/2017/01/03/treasury-nominee-steve-mnuchins-bank-accused-of-widespread-misconduct-in-leaked-memo/

          https://www.businessinsider.com.au/mnuchins-onewest-bank-has-long-record-of-mortgage-foreclosures-2017-8?r=US&IR=T
    • ianmac 10.2

      28 April 2020 at 10:39 am

      Don't you appreciate Jacinda's skill at handling the Press Conference especially the question time? The only questions answered by Trump were ones from MAGA people.

      Rambling Rose the Chump Trump.
      • gsays 10.2.1

        28 April 2020 at 12:32 pm

        I have often smiled to myself at these press conferences, when the Prime Minister is using the journo's first name to get their question.

        Similarly, with us being a small nation, you almost feel the PM knows the folk that have passed away during the last month or so.
        • Herodotus 10.2.1.1

          28 April 2020 at 2:43 pm

          Pity since the demise of Paul Holmes the ability to question PM's, ministers etc has gone from informative and being challenged to watching a bunch of compliant amateurs with a media profile the station and the personality want to maintained. Follow any political blog same comment is universal from both sides, and these are those who are politically active or seeking out info. The public at large are fed 10-30sec meaningless gotcha clips.

          Where are the follow up questions ?? This comment was also applicable under Key.

          https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2020/04/prime-minister-jacinda-ardern-disagrees-with-frontline-health-workers-saying-there-s-an-issue-with-flu-vaccine-supplies.html
          • gsays 10.2.1.1.1

            28 April 2020 at 4:13 pm

            I was talking to a mate today, he has been living off-grid during the lock-down.

            The 'mainstream' media came up and the perilous state they find themselves in.

            While this is not news, it has become apparent who the newspapers, tv and radio stations serve: the advertisers.

            Recently we have had the three 'local' papers- The Dom, The Evening Standard and Feilding Herald adopt the same masthead, puzzle page etc and a lot of common content. The only discernable difference is the obituaries and the real estate for sale.

            The media has made itself redundant in many peoples lives.
            • Herodotus 10.2.1.1.1.1

              28 April 2020 at 5:47 pm

              There are also continuing your theme, plenty of articles that come across as independent news but from reading sound more of an "advertorial", similar with "experts" they appear to be selected based on what their perception is and how that aligns with how the media is framing the story. You think the govt is crap there are media personalities you will listen/ watch. The govt is perfect you can find media that is compliant with this side as well.

              IMO we need a functioning opposition (NZ has been lacking one for many years now) and a media that questions.

              Whist you say the media has made itself redundant – I counter that it is more dangerous as ever due to its shallowness/personalities built on nothing ( CELEBRITIES) just look at what the US has in leadership !!
              • gsays …

                28 April 2020 at 7:46 pm

                I agree that the 'news' can often be rehashed press releases and the shallow celebrity cult flavour of current events. The redundancy I mentioned is a financial one. We don't value it enough to pay for it.

                Not surprising really, most by-products of the race to the bottom are unappealing.
              • In Vino …

                28 April 2020 at 7:49 pm

                Well said, Hero…
            • Bruce 10.2.1.1.1.2

              28 April 2020 at 8:15 pm

              Its been quite clear for a while that our media is controlled by the advertiser. I follow Thai politics. { More exciting than game of thrones , I think.} While the rest of the world is provided info on Thai King I have yet to see anything in our media, I can only think the travel advertises keep it from our papers

              Tatler, “Thailand protests as King takes holiday during pandemic“

              eTurbo News, “Long Live the King of Thailand in Bavaria with his Harem of 20 Beautiful Ladies”

              Digi24, “Regele Thailandei s-a izolat alături de 20 de femei. A închiriat în Germania un hotel întreg pentru haremul său”

              Aftenposten, “Murring mot monark: Kongen bor på hotell utenlands under pandemien”

              The Independent, “Coronavirus: Thai king self-isolates in Alpine hotel with harem of 20 women amid pandemic”

              Mail Online, “King of Thailand self-isolates from coronavirus by hiring out entire luxury German hotel for him and his entourage including a harem of 20 concubines”
    • joe90 10.3

      28 April 2020 at 12:36 pm

      Looks like he's crashing after an all-nighter on the fry.

      https://twitter.com/AdamParkhomenko/status/1254875425223950342
      • Sabine 10.3.1

        28 April 2020 at 4:49 pm

        High as a kite and up up in the sky.

        His Surgeon General must give him some nice drugs judging by his eyes.
11. AB 11

    28 April 2020 at 9:54 am

    Mark Blyth covers some interesting ground here – COVID-19 and the economic effects, the nature of bailouts, internationalism and the difference between countries, etc. I was particularly interested in the idea of anti-fragility and automatic stabilisers which he touched on briefly. It's quite long, but worth it.
    • pat 11.1

      28 April 2020 at 1:58 pm

      Blyth does economics with black humour so well
12. bill 12

    28 April 2020 at 10:55 am

    @ Ad.

    Thought you might be interested in this in light of a comment made a few days back…

    As European leaders launch a multilateral, multi-billion-dollar effort to promote vaccines, testing, and anti-viral medicines, the U.S. withdraws from the World Health Organization and declines to join. There you have it.

    And from the link in that article…

    Global leaders are launching an initiative with the World Health Organization (WHO) to accelerate the development of coronavirus drugs, tests and vaccines and ensure equal access to all countries, but the US is not involved. European Commission president Ursula von der Leyen, French president Emmanuel Macron and German chancellor Angela Merkel were among leaders participating in a video conference to announce the plan. US president Donald Trump recently criticised the WHO’s handling of the pandemic and announced a withdrawal of US funding to the organisation.
    • Ad 12.1

      28 April 2020 at 11:14 am

      Cheers Bill.

      A Chinese pact with Europe and the UK over this event is also smart politics in shifting blocs of influence together – and away from the US.

      In my lifetime I can't think of a developed nation that has so wilfully and swiftly disengaged from institutional co-operation at a time of global crisis as the United States has done.

      The US withdrawal – and its status as the worst response by levels of infection and death in the world by a country mile – makes the oppressive regime of China look like a reasoned, co-operative, and generous international partner in a global crisis. Which takes some doing.
      • Tricledrown 12.1.1

        28 April 2020 at 11:40 am

        Ad WW1 and WW2.Particularly helping arm Germany to the teeth.Ford IBM etc .The US reluctance to work with its Allies.
        • McFlock 12.1.1.1

          28 April 2020 at 11:52 am

          That was more isolationism being the status quo, moving towards participation, though.

          This is almost like Pershing disembarked in France, only to find a telegram from POTUS ordering everyone back to the US because he'd changed his mind.
        • Ad 12.1.1.2

          28 April 2020 at 1:37 pm

          I specified 'my lifetime'. You may be a little older than I.

          Pretty hard to argue that the US didn't cooperate with Allies in the second half of both wars.
      • RedLogix 12.1.2

        28 April 2020 at 4:54 pm

        In my lifetime I can't think of a developed nation that has so wilfully and swiftly disengaged from institutional co-operation at a time of global crisis as the United States has done.

        As I've argued before this is the direction the USA has been moving in since the end of the Cold War, a slow drift at first, but now so dramatic as to be obvious to all.

        Now think through all the potential consequences of this shift. In my view none of them are good.
13. Tricledrown 13

    28 April 2020 at 11:45 am

    Stunted Mullet Privacy, Network capability,apps are an add on reliant of mass uptake.Then having enough people to Trace.
14. Drowsy M. Kram 14

    28 April 2020 at 11:59 am

    Had a bit of a laugh at PhD student Matthew-HeavyBreather-Hooton (@ ~6 minutes into RNZ’s Nine-to-Noon programme this morning) leading with his 'concern' that Grant Roberston might regard himself as "omniscient". Typically it's the National Party that is more inclined to pick business winners – maybe there's only room for one omniscient NZer in Hooten's 'mind'

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/ninetonoon/audio/2018744289/political-commentators-hooton-and-jones
    • pat 14.1

      28 April 2020 at 12:13 pm

      Of as much concern is his promotion of UBI…writing off a significant portion of the population as an underclass by a mechanism carrying a different name…a repeat of the mistake of the 80s.
    • Drowsy M. Kram 14.2

      28 April 2020 at 12:17 pm

      Whoops – @14 minutes – sorry.
15. ScottGN 15

    28 April 2020 at 12:07 pm

    China must be feeling the heat, its ambassador to Canberra has dispensed with the usual diplomatic niceties and flat-out threatened Australia with billions of dollars in boycotts if the government there persists with its ‘foolish’ plan for an inquiry into the causes and origins of the pandemic.
    https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/australia-could-lose-billions-from-chinese-government-boycott-threat-20200427-p54nmh.html
    • bill 15.1

      28 April 2020 at 12:28 pm

      China might be "feeling the heat" or, more likely in my mind, is simply pissed off with the children in the room trying to cast it as "bogey man".

      eg – From western news outlets and just off the top of my head – China is simultaneously charged with being too authoritarian in locking down cities, and too lax in its response. China sending covid related aid to third countries isn't humanitarianism, but cynical influence building. Scouring the world for ppe when faced with the potential for a pandemic it was trying to avert, is somehow nefarious. Then there's all the false reporting of whistle blowers who weren't actually whistle blowers. Throw in on top the charges that China didn't inform other countries about covid (when it most assuredly did), and how that contradicts bullshit being peddled by sections of the US intelligence community that the virus was "sweeping" China in November…

      I could go on.
      • Gabby 15.1.1

        28 April 2020 at 12:40 pm

        It is kind of weird to besimultaneously hunting for ppe overseas and exporting the stuff.
        • bill 15.1.1.1

          28 April 2020 at 12:49 pm

          I read stories that the USA was doing that – exporting ppe to China around the same time it was "hi-jacking" supplies paid for by other countries, but I haven't read of China doing that.

          Maybe western corporations who have production facilities in China were 'exporting' ppe to their usual customers? That what you mean? Link?
      • ScottGN 15.1.2

        28 April 2020 at 2:35 pm

        I’m sure you could go on and on Bill.

        But threatening a so-called ally as China has done here is clumsy and bound to be counter-productive. Morrison had already had his idea of an inquiry rebuffed by the UK and France. Beijing’s best course of action, at least at the moment, would have been to ignore the posturing from Australia. And, of course, any threat of a boycott is unlikely to be terribly effective right now given that Australia’s economy (like everybody else’s) has pretty gone down the gurgler anyway. There’s more than a whiff of panic about the whole business.
        • bill 15.1.2.1

          28 April 2020 at 7:08 pm

          But threatening a so-called ally as China has done …

          So China is to not push back on the threats from Pompeo and fellow travelers from US allies like Australia? Is the country also meant to just 'soak up' all the Sinophobic propaganda that's been peddled by 'western' mainstream/corporate media?

          If that's your thinking, maybe you missed your calling and should have applied for the role of lead advisor to Jeremy Corbyn and Bernie Sanders. 🙂
    • Gabby 15.2

      28 April 2020 at 12:38 pm

      Now is the time for NZ to stand up and – move quietly to the back of the room. Maybe order some popcorn.
      • In Vino 15.2.1

        28 April 2020 at 7:55 pm

        Inspirational leadership there, Gabby.. (You may well be right.)
16. ScottGN 16

    28 April 2020 at 12:10 pm

    The Berejiklian government may spend up to $500 million to support the housing market in New South Wales

    https://www.smh.com.au/politics/nsw/nsw-government-may-buy-up-spare-housing-in-500-million-stimulus-plan-20200427-p54noc.html
17. A 17

    28 April 2020 at 12:30 pm

    Boots on the ground story of MBIE theater – 3 days in a motel for homeless during lockdown. Then back to Work and Income that failed to house them in the first place.

    Anyone else spoken to some homeless people?
18. Gosman 18

    28 April 2020 at 1:37 pm

    The other thing you failed to pick up is that it is extremely unlikely that Grant Robertson or whoever else within the State apparatus will be able to predict with any certainty where these resources should be reallocated to. They can hazard a guess but the best way of deciding is to allow the market to dictate what areas are going to be successful or not.

    [TheStandard: A moderator moved this comment to Open Mike as being off topic or irrelevant in the post it was made in. Be more careful in future.]
    
    • weka 18.1

      28 April 2020 at 1:45 pm

      The post isn't about Hooton's reckons on Nine to Noon, and it's not there for you to derail yet again. When you can demonstrate that you understand what my posts are about, by how you comment, you will be welcome back. My suggestion is to try and not look like you only read the title or first few lines of the post.

      For instance, you could have put up an argument (not simply an assertion) of how the market might work as a useful tool within Raworth's framework.
    • KJT 18.2

      28 April 2020 at 1:48 pm

      We do know for certain that way to many in the private sector have even less idea.

      Forgotten the 87 share market crash, so soon.

      Government is always part of allocating resources for business. Both the subsidies for dairying, the roading built for trucks, and the increase in businesses power bills with the privatisation of energy, were all Government effects on business.

      Something that should be decided by democratic decision. Not the mythical "free market".

      Small businesses should be allowed and helped, to rethink and re direct if necessary.

      However if National really wanted to help small businesses restart and rebuild, they would have been advocating rent and loan freezes, for small businesses that couldn't trade during the lockdown, instead of moaning that the "parachute was too big" before we even reach the ground.
19. Muttonbird 19

    28 April 2020 at 2:08 pm

    Glenfield Mall politicking again:

    The co-owner of an Auckland shopping mall is raging at the "naïve" Government for continuing lockdown restrictions on retailers despite some 400,000 workers returning under COVID-19 alert level 3.

    https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2020/04/glenfield-mall-owner-rages-at-na-ve-government-over-retail-restrictions-under-covid-19-alert-level-3.html

    Same crowd who allowed Dan Bidiot to campaign at the mall but refused Shanan Halbert, then packed a sad and refused everyone (after Bidiot had completed campaigning there).

    https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2018/05/security-called-into-northcote-by-election-mall-confrontation.html
    • Bearded Git 19.1

      28 April 2020 at 4:01 pm

      Re the Glenfield Mall owners and the fact that they reduced the rent of some tenants "…forcing them to dip into their own savings".

      Yeah, right. Everybody shed a tear for the poor impoverished mall owners.
      • Patricia 2 19.1.1

        28 April 2020 at 5:15 pm

        The same co-owner who didn't have much sympathy for the Goldcorp shareholders / owners of misplaced gold back in 1987 ?
20. weka 20

    28 April 2020 at 2:18 pm

    https://twitter.com/GGrucilla/status/1254957402014625792
21. Treetop 21

    28 April 2020 at 3:01 pm

    I do not know if this would be doable, I think National would do much better if David Seymour was the National party leader.
    • Morrissey 21.1

      28 April 2020 at 3:57 pm

      That's just nasty, Treetop.
    • mac1 21.2

      28 April 2020 at 4:42 pm

      At least, no underling is writing emails to David Seymour in criticism, the advantage of being a one-man act.
      • Treetop 21.2.1

        28 April 2020 at 5:45 pm

        Seymour does well for a one man act. He is a person I would watch.
22. Gosman 22

    28 April 2020 at 4:20 pm

    And they won't. Because on the whole they know it works.

    [TheStandard: A moderator moved this comment to Open Mike as being off topic or irrelevant in the post it was made in. Be more careful in future.]
    
23. Gosman 23

    28 April 2020 at 4:32 pm

    Oh I think there is plenty of State assets left to privatise. Have you heard of Landcorp?

    [TheStandard: A moderator moved this comment to Open Mike as being off topic or irrelevant in the post it was made in. Be more careful in future.]
    
24. Morrissey 24

    28 April 2020 at 4:45 pm

    Trump the Isolationist

    ‘Last year, members of the Special Operations — Navy SEALs, Army Green Berets, and Marine Raiders among them — operated in 141 countries, according to figures provided to TomDispatch by U.S. Special Operations Command (SOCOM). In other words, they deployed to roughly 72% of the nations on this planet. While down from a 2017 high of 149 countries, this still represents a 135% rise from the late 2000s when America’s commandos were reportedly operating in only 60 nations.’

    https://www.salon.com/2020/04/01/americas-global-military-presence-skyrockets-under-trump-us-commandos-now-deployed-to-141-nations_partner/

    https://www.lobster-magazine.co.uk/free/lobster79/lob79-view-from-the-bridge.pdf
25. pat 25

    28 April 2020 at 6:04 pm

    Do not bail out the property investors!

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/checkpoint/audio/2018744348/small-businesses-need-more-govt-help-mall-owner
26. North 26

    28 April 2020 at 6:56 pm

    Apropos nothing really I learned today that 50 of the 100 states of the United States have populations no larger than NZ and many very considerably less. If NZ were a US city it would be the 2nd largest in the US after New York City followed by Los Angeles and Chicago. Which made me feel good about my country – I have in me a positive sense about the standard of leadership this country enjoys in these times. Jesus…..imagine living in America right now!
    • Stunned Mullet 26.1

      28 April 2020 at 7:04 pm

      Probably better to look at metropolitan areas to assess relative population sizes

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_metropolitan_statistical_areas#United_States
    • Andre 26.2

      28 April 2020 at 7:19 pm

      Err, wut?

      The US has 50 states. Plus Washington DC, which is separate from the states. Plus a bunch of territories, of which Puerto Rico is largest in both area and population. And yeah, our population would slot in pretty close to halfway up the list, between Alabama and Louisiana.

      As far as cities goes, your ranking is correct if you go by the boundary of the legally incorporated city. Kinda like Orcland before the Supershitty amalgamation. But if you go by the population of the metropolitan area, then 4.8 million population is around 10th for metro areas in the US, similar to Phoenix AZ, Boston MA and San Francisco – Oakland CA.
    • Peter 26.3

      28 April 2020 at 8:25 pm

      The Covid-19 stats are interesting. Accepting all the stuff about accuracy and counting or not counting ones who should or should not be on lists: Random except for Michigan where there were big crazed protests about the lockdown.

      Michigan: population 10 million covid cases 38,200, deaths 3,407

      Louisiana: population 4.6 million covid cases 27,000, deaths 1,697

      Sth Dakota: population 950,000 Covid cases 2,245, deaths 11

      NZ: population 4.8 million Covid cases 1,472, deaths 19

      Imagine the uproar here if our figures were like theirs. The contrast between our leader and her Ministry people's sessions and Trump's ones are as stark as the numbers.
      • Peter 26.3.1

        28 April 2020 at 8:38 pm

        Addendum: We have to be mindful of different circumstances in the United States.

        Loiusiana's stats speak for themselves.

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RTrXqdpoDcw

        And they have God on their side.
27. Stunned Mullet 27

    28 April 2020 at 7:26 pm

    Can someone sack this muppet.

    Health Minister David Clark moved house during level 4 lockdown

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12328085

    Don't care if it's a storm in a teacup, any one of us normal Joe or Jane Blogs would've been kicked to touch by now.
    • Andre 27.1

      28 April 2020 at 7:39 pm

      The headline says he moved in level 4, but his story is he squeaked the move in on the Wednesday while it was still level 3. Can't be arsed checking exactly what was said about moving house at level 3 at the time.
      • In Vino 27.1.1

        28 April 2020 at 8:22 pm

        What utter bloody nonsense, Stunted Mullet. There was very little enforcement for such things, and it is quite likely that normal Joe or Jane Blogs would never have been noticed doing that same thing. In fact, I would be willing to bet that many people did so, and had no repercussions.

        You Righties are so full of bumf. I remember Key's National Govt. pretending it did a great thing for us all by lowering the alcohol driving limits. But after that, they then cut Police funding to the point where Police were unable to keep up the number of alcohol checkpoints- already too few – and they were silently reduced.

        As a result, NZ became one of the very few countries in the world to lower the alcohol limits, then have an increase in the number of alcohol-related accidents.

        Enforcement is what matters – the cheats stop cheating only when they know they will probably be caught. (TV ads telling them -"You will be caught!" are crap.)

        The cheats will have been right in from the start with the emergency measures needed for Covid19.

        Little surveillance or enforcement likely. Clark is not such a malevolent cheat – more a dopy innocent. Go find some real offenders.
        • Stunned Mullet 27.1.1.1

          28 April 2020 at 8:34 pm

          Fortunately you're as entitled to your opinion as I am to mine.
          • greywarshark 27.1.1.1.1

            28 April 2020 at 8:59 pm

            The discerning look for educated thoughtful opinion out of the free-for-all of rampant confusion to be found in blogs.
            • In Vino 27.1.1.1.1.1

              28 April 2020 at 10:53 pm

              I suspect you are being damned with faint praise there, Stunted Mullet. Or something like that..
        • I Feel Love 27.1.1.2

          28 April 2020 at 8:41 pm

          I remember Brownlee "barging through" airport security, them were the days huh?
    • observer 27.2

      28 April 2020 at 7:42 pm

      It doesn't compare with the two previous stories, especially the "beach breach", which he was rightly criticised for.

      He literally walked a few hundred metres from a home to an office, like Ardern and Bloomfield in Wellington.

      Simon Bridges drove a few hundred km from a home to an office.
    • Fireblade 27.3

      28 April 2020 at 8:32 pm

      David Clark had a bad internet connection at his old house.
      • Louis 27.3.1

        28 April 2020 at 9:33 pm

        Fireblade, he used the old house as his office.
    • Louis 27.4

      28 April 2020 at 9:31 pm

      To the Stunned Mullet. The move was largely done prior to the lockdown, he didnt break the rules.
      • In Vino 27.4.1

        28 April 2020 at 11:02 pm

        But but but – that doesn't suit Mullet's agenda! Expect no response.
        • Incognito 27.4.1.1

          28 April 2020 at 11:23 pm

          He’s entitled to his opinion. Either it was pretty legal, in which case Clark needs to be fired on the spot. Or it was not, in which case Clark needs to resign immediately. There is a third possibility. If it was his third strike, that awful van of his must be crushed with his mountain bike in it. I like the way Stunned Mullet is thinking. It doesn’t leave room for doubt or errors. Oh, how much I would have to give up to have such opinions and to be free of the eternal burden of doubt and feel righteous in perpetuum!
          • In Vino 27.4.1.1.1

            29 April 2020 at 12:37 am

            'One may smile, and be a villain' .. Shakespeare?
            • Incognito 27.4.1.1.1.1

              29 April 2020 at 11:40 am

              Mona Lisa
28. greywarshark 28

    28 April 2020 at 8:43 pm

    This from Seden's PM – which sounds like typical right wing stuff, unwilling to take responsibility despite having all the stats and advisers that money can buy, or should:

    "We can't legislate and ban everything. It's also a question of common sense behaviour," Stefan Löfven, the Prime Minister, said at the end of March, as Sweden laid out its recommendations.

    The bars and public places are crammed with people. They are supposed to be social distancing, but they want to socialise and enjoy themselves not police themselves.

    When looking at the death figures, they are noticeably higher in the 60 ups. Though the number of cases shown was highest in the 50-59 year group. Apparently they are young enough to throw it off.

    Swedish deaths Covid-19 – looking at older age groups

    as at Apr.27/20:

    Lower ages were in single figures.

    40-49 had 25 deaths

    50-59 had 78 deaths

    Much higher in age 60-69 with 180 deaths,

    70-79 with 526 deaths

    80-90 with 906 deaths

    In the 90 years and over the deaths were 546.

    https://www.statista.com/statistics/1107913/number-of-coronavirus-deaths-in-sweden-by-age-groups/

    The cases were considerable and growing larger with age in all the age groups after age 20.

    They start growing in the 20-29 group at 1425 (5 deaths) which is just exceeded by the over 90s at 1,569 (546 deaths), of whom over 26% appear to have died.

    Three decade groups – 40-49 years (25 deaths), 60-69 years (180 deaths), and 70-79 years (526 deaths), have similar numbers of cases – around the 2500s – with deaths rising sharply along with age.

    https://www.statista.com/statistics/1107905/number-of-coronavirus-cases-in-sweden-by-age-groups/

    So if I doubted the stress on age I don't any longer, as the older you get the higher the rate of infection, and the higher the death rate in those who were reasonably healthy and could have expected to have longer lives.
29. R.P Mcmurphy 29

    28 April 2020 at 10:23 pm

    just watched paul henry in the most banal pointless teevy programme ever to grace tv3.

    he snivelled and bleated and sucked upp to john keys in the greasiest display of fawning sycophancy I have ever seen. JOhn Key dis his very best to dun the government without seeming to poormouth the greatest peacetime NZ has ever seen.

    Then the Education expert came on and praised the government and last but not least Paul Rimmington editor of National Affairs also gave the government the thumbs up.

    henry had to suck it up and not before he admitted that he was kicked out of australia because they didn't like him.

    Well after being beaten for a parliamentary seat by a drag queen and being removed from air over there I would just shut up but not him.
    • woodart 29.1

      28 April 2020 at 11:20 pm

      henry was so noxious, he was beaten by a drag queen in a conservative nat electorate. even his fellow travellers hated him!
    • ianmac 29.2

      28 April 2020 at 11:22 pm

      Yes RP. I was channel surfing and stayed to watch Key spouting to Henry. As usual if you tried to assess the importance of Key's words it was like Scotch mist. He did think we should enhance our trade with China but a lot of words to say so little. And putting all our eggs in China's basket is not such a good idea anyway.
      • greywarshark 29.2.1

        29 April 2020 at 8:45 am

        Sounds like Key was talking about an Easter eggs hunt for grown-ups. 'They are acshually just down by my swimming pool and through the sculpture garden….etc'
30. David Mac 30

    29 April 2020 at 12:49 am

    Never have I exchanged so many smiles as the last few weeks. The way we've pulled together has made me feel closer to you, hi, I'm Dave.

    I'm finding kindness a bit contagious.
31. David Mac 31

    29 April 2020 at 1:31 am

    Families tolerate tin garages through winter while comfy insulated holiday houses stand empty.

    We need to get smart with this Airbnb etc gig, spin it to suit everyone. Servicing an Airbnb place, cleaning, greeting guests etc could pay for the temp housing for a displaced family through the peak season.

    There are ways we can make the arrows we have in our quiver work for all of us and I think that's what most of us want. A toy with all the trimmings is no fun on your tod.

    I think Cindy and Ash's plan is genius. The one thing that traditionally gets better fast is virus testing. Soon, it will be bullet-proof.

    Testing at our one international airport, attached luxury quarantine hotel should it be needed. The globe's virus free destination. The paranoid, diabetic and dickey heart stricken will flock. Sheesh, bars will be getting $20 a pint and housekeepers $30 an hour.

    If the 19 swirls and lingers around the globe. I think our government have poised us well.

    If Jacinda was Trump she would be saying "Despite you all being dicks, I've been able to position us so that once we're all through this temporary bullshit, you n' me, we're gonna be Rockstars." The only difference is, as opposed to Don, beaut guy, I think Jacinda can turn us all into rockstars.
32. RRM 32

    29 April 2020 at 8:19 am

    "StAy aT HoMe! SaVE LiVEs!
33. Eco Maori 33

    29 April 2020 at 8:45 am

    Kia Ora The Am Show.

    Productivity is linked to wages low wages low productivity high wages the business owners invest in more efficient plant. Low wages they just hire more cheap Labour.

    Thanks to the all of the teams for their great mahi in keeping the virus at bay.

    That's good Internet for rual places getting $16 million investment boost.

    Ka kite Ano. 😇
34. Eco Maori 34

    29 April 2020 at 6:30 pm

    Kia Ora Newshub.

    Correct A 1 in 100 year pandemic who do we have to thank for the state of our health systems.

    Its good to see some Kiwis who lost their jobs in Britain have taken jobs cleaning hospital.

    Ka kite Ano
35. Eco Maori 35

    29 April 2020 at 6:57 pm

    Kia Ora Te Ao Maori News.

    Its good now tangata can have 10 people at a tangi in level 3 isolation.

    The new economy is going to be very different from the past.

    Yes Tangata call you health service if you have not been able to get appointment during level 4 isolation.

    Ka kite Ano
36. Eco Maori 36

    30 April 2020 at 8:48 am

    Kia Ora The Am Show.

    There you go our public health systems has been under funded for decades.

    Correct Maori and Pacific health stats ie the poorest part of our community are sad.

    Well correct our Prime minister has been quite busy in the last 2 years.

    Ka kite Ano
    • Eco Maori 36.1

      9 May 2020 at 6:31 pm

      Kia Ora Newshub.

      75 years since the end of World War 2.

      Robots dogs patrols Awsome how technology is developing.

      Ka kite Ano.
37. Eco Maori 37

    9 May 2020 at 6:46 pm

    Kia Ora Te Ao Maori News.

    People will have to look outside the square box to find solution to their problems cause by viruses isolation.

    Buying Maori made is cool.

    Ka kite Ano
38. Eco Maori 38

    9 May 2020 at 6:53 pm

    Awesome the Maori studios making Maori cartoons that's the way.
39. Eco Maori 39

    10 May 2020 at 5:37 am

    https://youtu.be/qQfetkoGrpU
    • Eco Maori 39.1

      10 May 2020 at 6:29 pm

      Kia Ora Newshub.

      That will be good more funding for Pharmac.

      Kia Kaha David.

      That good more workers for Doc to do some great mahi.

      Ka kite Ano.
40. Eco Maori 40

    10 May 2020 at 6:52 pm

    Kia Ora Te Ao Maori News.

    It will be good to see weed legalised to stop our Rangatahi being thrown to the wolfs.

    Mother day today it will be awesome when they have equality Mana Wahine.

    Mauri poi cool get more Maori into Kapa Haka.

    Ka kite Ano

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