Open mike 28/06/2019

92 comments on “Open mike 28/06/2019 ”

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1. Muttonbird 1

   28 June 2019 at 7:55 am

   This is like the wolf asking sheep to come to him with complaints about the grass.

   I don't believe Andrew King has a clue about what life is like on the ground for tenants in this sad, sad country.

   If he thinks tenants are going to risk being kicked out in this environment for asking owners to comply with the law he is ignoring the truth. The truth is wrongful evictions are almost never prosecuted, and owners hide behind the obscurity of loose law which benefits them and which it is King's very purpose in life to protect.

   https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/money/2019/06/tenants-shouldn-t-be-afraid-to-dob-in-uninsulated-homes-property-investors-federation.html
   • A 1.1

     28 June 2019 at 8:20 am

     And some have been left uninsulated at the request of the tenant, King says.

     "We have heard of people, tenants who didn't want the property insulated because they didn't want the rent to go up, so they wanted it delayed as much as possible. And I think… some have left it a little bit too late.”

     God this guy annoys me. This ^^ implies that investors breaking the law are just trying to please their tenants. Bring on the crash
     • AB 1.1.1

       28 June 2019 at 9:40 am

       "We have heard of people, tenants who didn't want the property insulated because they didn't want the rent to go up"

       Informed consumers making a rational decision to be cold and sick rather than homeless. Awesome – the market is working perfectly!
       • Muttonbird 1.1.1.1

         28 June 2019 at 12:28 pm

         A + AB. That quote from King sounds exactly like something The Chairman would say and use to justify his fake concern for the poor.
2. johnm 2

   28 June 2019 at 7:57 am

   subject: Why are we functionally extinct!? content: We're in exponential climate change right now. weather disruption events are worsening weekly. Earth is in a transition phase towards a new hotter thermal balance replacing our current biosphere

   Sea Wanderer 1 month ago (edited)

   We are already functionally extinct, it just hasn't sunk in, yet! Our life support is dying right in front of our very eyes. All because we couldn't even conceive of living in balance and harmony with Gaia.

   Guy McPherson – Facing Functional Extinction

   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDG5rfFBKSQ&t=17s
   • Andre 2.1

     28 June 2019 at 9:10 am

     We're dooooomed!!!

     https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cRHOcWj–cs
     • johnm 2.1.1

       28 June 2019 at 11:44 am

       Exponential climate change plus the 6th mass extinction now in full swing = doom in my book!.I know we're supposed to be above all those natural processes but actually we depend 100% on the dying natural world.
       • Andre 2.1.1.1

         28 June 2019 at 1:05 pm

         MacPherson offers nothing but doom, gloom, anxiety and depression. He does nothing to improve the situation by offering pathways to improvement, he is actively a part of making things worse by spreading the implicit message that any effort to make things better is pointless.

         We would all be better off if he just STFU and retreated to his little remote sanctuary. Failing that, others can refrain from spreading his harmful message.
         • johnm 2.1.1.1.1

           28 June 2019 at 7:02 pm

           https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQKMd9KXsXM
         • Pat 2.1.1.1.2

           28 June 2019 at 7:16 pm

           but is he wrong?
           • Psycho Milt 2.1.1.1.2.1

             28 June 2019 at 7:27 pm

             It doesn't matter whether he's wrong, if you give a shit about humanity.

             It’s time to change the climate disaster script. People need hope that things can change:

             When faced with serious and complex challenges such as climate change, we jump to “can’t be done” more readily than “let’s work through this problem and see the solutions”. While bleak, “nothing can be done” is a more rewarding conclusion because it’s quicker and easier to think.
             • Pat …

               28 June 2019 at 7:50 pm

               Im not sure who it was but somebody said that 30 years of not scaring the horses obviously hasnt worked so maybe its time for some honesty….McPherson may overstate things and be fatalist but Im not convinced his predictions are any more innaccurate than say the IPCC with all their faults and vested interest influence…as I have noted elsewhere the curious thing is that McPhersons timeframe is becoming daily more mainstream
               • Psycho Milt …

                 28 June 2019 at 8:43 pm

                 All McPherson is saying is that there's no point in doing anything so you might as well vote for right-wing parties and devote the years you have left to hedonism, or more to the point, nihilism. Fuck him and the horse he rode in on.
                 • Pat …

                   28 June 2019 at 8:55 pm

                   he says a little more than that however the question was is his analysis of the possible impact wrong….it wasnt how we should address the problem, that is a different question
                   • Psycho Milt …

                     28 June 2019 at 9:07 pm

                     Leaving aside for the moment the inadvisability of accepting declarations of impending doom from people unqualified to make such declarations, my concern is with the political implications.

                     Even if we assume that the doom-mongering is accurate, a fuckwit who persuades everyone that there's no point in doing anything about climate change, so they might as well embrace nihilism, would make the impending extinctions far more extensive than they otherwise would be. What the fuck is that for a personal ambition?
                 • Andre …

                   28 June 2019 at 9:02 pm

                   From the RationalWiki link, it appears getting doomer groupies to fuck him (and maybe even the horse he rode in on) may indeed be part of McPherson's motivation for being a cult leader.
                   • Psycho Milt …

                     28 June 2019 at 9:08 pm

                     Oh, right, business as usual in the cult industry. I guess it's obvious when you think about it.
                 • Pat …

                   28 June 2019 at 9:22 pm

                   I suspect hes a little more qualified than yourself and if hes a cultist hes not a nihilist, more a fatalist…however as stated his proscribed response is not the issue rather its his analysis of the impacts.
           • Andre 2.1.1.1.2.2

             28 June 2019 at 7:33 pm

             He has a long history of making predictions of doom and turning out wrong.

             https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Guy_McPherson#Predictions

             While he's still got nearly 7 and a half years to run on his Nov 2016 prediction of humans completely gone in 10 years, that's looking extremely implausible
             • Pat …

               28 June 2019 at 7:44 pm

               Fair enough…not a good record but curiously the mainstream (climatologists) predictions are increasingly closing in on his timeframes….he may well be an alarmist who cherry picks his sources but it is looking increasingly that his stated timeframes are more accurate than those of the "official line " until very recently…McPherson hasnt changed but most others have
               • Andre …

                 28 June 2019 at 7:54 pm

                 " … not a good record … " is a remarkably charitable description of 100% failure.

                 " … curiously the mainstream (climatologists) predictions are increasingly closing in on his timeframes …"

                 You want to back that up? Coz from here it looks like a completely evidence free assertion at odds with the real situation.
                 • Pat …

                   28 June 2019 at 8:06 pm

                   https://www.livescience.com/65633-climate-change-dooms-humans-by-2050.html

                   https://edition.cnn.com/2019/06/27/india/india-water-crisis-intl-hnk/index.html

                   https://www.livescience.com/65524-antarctica-ice-unstable.html

                   a brief selection….the potential triggers are multiple
                   • Andre …

                     28 June 2019 at 8:21 pm

                     From your first link: " …Published by the Breakthrough National Centre for Climate Restoration in Melbourne (an independent think tank focused on climate policy) and authored by a climate researcher and a former fossil fuel executive," – mainstream, huh? Or more doomers cherry-picking and distorting?

                     Your second link – millions of people becoming even further water-stressed in what was already an extremely water-stressed area with very high population growth is not an example of McPherson being more accurate than mainstream researchers. Nor is it the harbinger of a coming unforeseen apocalypse wiping out all of humanity. It's something that's been predicted for a long time by mainstream researchers. Hell, one of my first year geography assignments nearly 40 years was very nearly on this exact topic.

                     Your third link – accelerated collapse of part of the Antarctic ice sheet is an example of McPherson being more accurate than mainstream researchers? You think this is going to bring about McPherson's claims of all humanity getting wiped out within the next decade? Are you fucking serious?
                 • Pat …

                   28 June 2019 at 8:30 pm

                   every example is indicating acceleration of impact (ahead of prediction) and consequently reduced scope to adjust…..this is the regular theme from almost every study released in recent time….the models are increasingly lagging real time effects…you may choose to dismiss that data however those analysing it and writing the papers are moving closer to McPhersons position by the day
                   • Andre …

                     28 June 2019 at 8:36 pm

                     McPherson's position is total extinction of all humans within 10 years.

                     Nobody with any credibility whatsoever is moving to anything remotely near a position like that. Claiming they are moving towards McPherson's position is like me claiming my financial position is moving closer to Warren Buffet's financial position – it may be technically correct, but we’re so far apart it’s a ludicrously idiotic claim to make.
                 • Pat …

                   28 June 2019 at 8:43 pm

                   we have gone from nothing to worry about this side of 2100 to we're not confident that organised society will survive a generation….you must be making shitloads if your comparrison is in any way relevant
                   …and an aside , Indias population has doubled since your study
                   • Andre …

                     28 June 2019 at 8:56 pm

                     Doomer fantasists might not be confident about organised society surviving a generation. However, doomers have been around since forever, yet here we still are.
                 • Pat …

                   28 June 2019 at 9:02 pm

                   again. the point is you may dismiss McPherson as a doomer fantasist…my point is that increasingly more and more mainstream scientists are publicly (pertinent) echoing him…. at what point do you you consider those opinions something more than doomer fantasy?
                   • Andre …

                     28 June 2019 at 9:06 pm

                     Which mainstream scientists are echoing McPherson? Which ones? Some things happening at the faster end of predicted ranges is not a case of mainstream scientists echoing McPherson, unless you're a doomer fantasist.

                     Again, McPherson's position is total extinction of all humans within 10 years. Which mainstream scientists are saying anything even vaguely resembling that?
                 • Pat …

                   28 June 2019 at 9:17 pm

                   Read the studies…the common theme is the modelled predictions are proving to be grossly conservative and impacts that were predicted to occur late century are occurring now or expected near term
                   • Andre …

                     28 June 2019 at 9:28 pm

                     Which mainstream scientists are echoing McPherson by suggesting total extinction of all humans within 10 years? Which ones? Links, please.

                     The tropics becoming uninhabitable by humans is neither quantitatively nor qualitatively anything like total extinction of all humans. Sea level rise of 50m from loss of all Greenland, Himalayan, and West Antarctic ice is neither quantitatively nor qualitatively anything like total extinction of all humans. The massive societal disruptions caused by massive migration of billions of climate refugees is neither quantitatively nor qualitatively anything like total extinction of all humans.

                     So, Pat, which mainstream scientists are echoing McPherson in suggesting total extinction of all humans within 10 years. Or even a similar order of magnitude timescale? Names and links, please. Or are you just full of shit?
   • Tony Veitch [not etc.] 2.2

     28 June 2019 at 12:41 pm

     Matthew 13:57
     And they took offence at Him. But Jesus said to them, "Only in his hometown and in his own household is a prophet without honour."

     Hang in there, Johnm. On the balance of probability, Guy MacPherson is right – but too many people are afraid to admit it. Why try to fix the planet now if we can put it off until next Tuesday?
3. johnm 3

   28 June 2019 at 8:01 am

   Guy Mcpherson's 5 minute representation to NYC committee on climate change:
   (The ignored exist'l severe risk)

   [Deleted long string of text. The complete comment is a copy & paste job. When you quote, please use quotation marks. Never quote the whole text, especially when it is long, but select the most telling part(s) to pique people’s interest. Use font style for emphasis if necessary. Always provide a link to the original source, e.g. http://arctic-news.blogspot.com/2019/06/its-time-to-pursue-hospice-by-guy-mcpherson.html – Incognito]
   • marty mars 3.1

     28 June 2019 at 8:23 am

     lol mac fearsum is flawesome – what a dude lol

     Doomer cult hero says doom is coming – yawn.
     • johnm 3.1.1

       28 June 2019 at 8:40 am

       Weather chaos and climate disaster round the globe – 26 June, 2019

       https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=444&v=4q72VcA_ruE
       • marty mars 3.1.1.1

         28 June 2019 at 8:53 am

         yeah surprise surprise
       • bewildered 3.1.1.2

         28 June 2019 at 9:48 am

         News flash weather has been reported around the world today with startling results. Based on past results some weather is close to average, some well below average some well above average One person did note as weather probability is a continuous variable the possibility of average is zero Mean while in NZ a new band is being formed by Johnm Paul and Ed with Ringo expected to join soon, however there are strong rumours that John Paul Ed and soon to be Ringo may simply be one artist
   • bewildered 3.2

     28 June 2019 at 9:39 am

     Yawn, Stretch, lovely day in Auckland Ed/Paul
     • alwyn 3.2.1

       28 June 2019 at 10:33 am

       I hope that you Auckland residents, currently being told about the wonderful advantages you get from trams and trains, will note this item on the RNZ news this morning.

       https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/393138/ice-causes-delays-on-hutt-valley-and-wairarapa-trains

       Because of the dreadful weather we are having in Wellington today train services through the Hutt Valley to Wellington are being disrupted and delays are occurring. They aren't really major but people with early meetings aren't going to make their appointments.

       Still, Ms Genter will tell us it is all for the best. Trains are much more reliable and faster than taking your car into the city. And it really isn't the fault of the train services when such a dreadful spell of weather disrupts the service is it?

       Just don't expect your wonderful tram service, organised at such enormous expense by that great man Twyford, to get you to somewhere near the airport if you are planning to fly out of Auckland in 20 years time when it is completed.

       Mind you, I’m not actually sure which is worse. Is it today’s hold up because of the cold or was it what happened earlier in the year because of the terrible heat wave?

       https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/morningreport/audio/2018680306/wellington-trains-halted-in-heat-thousands-stranded
       • Muttonbird 3.2.1.1

         28 June 2019 at 10:46 am

         Auckland residents know all too well their motorway system is regularly paralysed several times a month due to single incidents. Sometimes even a simple breakdown is enough delay many tens of thousands of vehicles for hours in the morning when people are trying to make 'meetings and appointments', or in the afternoons when people are trying to get home to their families.

         This includes the South Western motorway which connects to Auckland International Airport. Many a flight has been missed because of short-sighted, road-centric thinking.
       • ankerawshark 3.2.1.2

         28 June 2019 at 11:01 am

         umm…………..Alywin, its a beautiful day in Wellington today?????

         And its not as if people don't make early meetings in Wellington and Ak cause they are sitting in their cars, traffic building up because of a nasty accident…………
         • alwyn 3.2.1.2.1

           28 June 2019 at 11:07 am

           umm…………..Ankerwank,I know.because I live here"

           Isn't it amazing how easily disrupted train travel is though? At least on roads there is a possibility of taking another route.
           • Muttonbird 3.2.1.2.1.1

             28 June 2019 at 11:31 am

             This is wilful ignorance, but then that is your specialty. Other routes don't suddenly free up when there's a motorway incident.
             • AB …

               28 June 2019 at 11:51 am

               The notional road network in Alwn's head is perfect, like a market. It tends to equilibrium, one route involves too great a cost in time? Then demand drops and substitution with other routes occurs – as demand drops on the original route, the time cost diminishes and the whole things settles into balance with gorgeously happy motorists scurrying along to their incredibly fulfilling well-paid jobs where they "align the vision" and "drive efficiencies in best practice service delivery" while "collaborating with an intense win-win focus". It's all fabulous – why would you complain?
             • alwyn …

               28 June 2019 at 12:02 pm

               I am tempted to reprise your own comment made at 8.53 am in the material about the Cabinet Reshuffle.

               "I don't remember addressing you."

               I am far to polite though so I will simply ignore your wilful ignorance.
               • Muttonbird …

                 28 June 2019 at 12:05 pm

                 Well, you missed the point again, but that is not unusual.
           • Bearded Git 3.2.1.2.1.2

             28 June 2019 at 12:14 pm

             I used to read most of The Guardian (when it was left-wing) each morning when commuting by train in London and I remember reading several George Orwell novels when commuting by train in Sydney.

             If you enjoy driving in rush-hour Alwyn; go for it. But decent public transport is the way to go. Nine years of Jacinda and James will make it happen.
             • alwyn …

               28 June 2019 at 12:38 pm

               I personally think that large vehicle public transport, such as trains, trams and buses will become a thing of the past within about 10 years.

               Autonomous Electric Vehicles will be here and will take over the majority of travel in cities at least. Most people will not need to own a private car if they live in a city. It will be a bit slower in the rural areas but it will take over there not too much later. I am looking forward to it. I think it will occur at about the time they take my license away.

               This will arrive at just about the time they finish the ridiculous tram system being planned for Auckland. It will open and close on roughly the same date and will join such things as Stonehenge as relics of a bygone age.

               The vehicles will be built by a consortium of Google and the big car manufacturers I would think. And just think. You will be able to read your book while being carried from door to door in comfort.
               • Muttonbird …

                 28 June 2019 at 12:44 pm

                 All those private journeys at rush hour with a single person in each vehicle. Where will increased number of vehicles be stored during the day when they are not used?
                 • SHG …

                   28 June 2019 at 12:58 pm

                   a) why do you think there will be more of them,

                   b) why do you think there'll be one person in each of them,

                   c) why do you think they will not be used
                   • Muttonbird …

                     28 June 2019 at 1:07 pm

                     a) under alwyn's model public transport ceases to exist,

                     b) more than one in a driverless EV mimics public transport, something which horrifies alwyn

                     c) once the workforce is at work there'll be a lot of cars unused.
                   • SHG …

                     28 June 2019 at 1:13 pm

                     Oh gotcha. I on the other hand think of it more as "public transport increasingly takes the form of driverless electric cars".

                     They way I think of that near future is: nobody owns or drives cars any more. Just not worth the hassle or risk or expense. Big Data Machine Learning Car Co learns what sort of transport I need and when I need it and makes sure that I have it. When I'm not in it, the car will go to where the Big Data Machine Learning Car Co algorithm says it will be used next.
                   • alwyn …

                     28 June 2019 at 1:52 pm

                     @SHG at 1.13 pm

                     That is exactly what I think. The AVs will be the public transport of the future.

                     I'm not "horrified" of public transport as Muttonbird seems to think. I just want to have a 21st century version rather than the 20th, and even 19th century versions that the current CoL seem to like.

                     I notice that our dear leaders don't use it themselves. Limo's all round for them.
               • McFlock …

                 28 June 2019 at 1:12 pm

                 Transporting 50 or 100 people along a set route will always be a cheaper fare than transporting 1 person slightly closer to their destination. Unless it's run in Dunedin.
                 • alwyn …

                   28 June 2019 at 1:45 pm

                   How many people do you think there are on a bus in Wellington.

                   Would you think, counting all the bus trips and the entire length of the runs that they average as many as 5 people? There are not that many bus trips that actually are at peak times and have full loads.

                   The main cost of a taxi is paying the driver. AVs won't have that cost. In addition people won't need to drive to the bus or train route and then leave a car parked for the day. In Wellington there are an amazing number of cars that are driven down to the bus route and then left parked there while people take a bus to work for the day.
                   • McFlock …

                     28 June 2019 at 2:56 pm

                     Driverless cars also eventually means driverless busses.

                     So the math simply comes down to whether your pessimistic assessment of passenger numbers on public transport is low enough for single-serve private fuckmobiles (they're totally going to get used for that) to be more competitive when they moonlight as a communter service.
               • One Two …

                 28 June 2019 at 2:11 pm

                 I'd say from your comment that you have over-estimated the capability and timeline of AEV's taking over.

                 Often happens when the technology and required underlying supportive structures and frameworks are not well understood.

                 You may just ‘lose your license’ and need to rely on the manual public transport as it is today…read your book on that.

                 Imagine that. You may not be alright after all, jack.
                 • alwyn …

                   28 June 2019 at 7:00 pm

                   "over-estimated the capability and timeline of AEV's taking over."

                   You may very well be right. I tend to follow Bill Gates' opinion on the matter though. He said –

                   "We always overestimate the change that will occur in the next two years and underestimate the change that will occur in the next ten. Don't let yourself be lulled into inaction."

                   The time sounds about right to me. Ford seems to be aiming for a 2021 commercial implementation. When the big Car companies get into it I would say the exercise has become much more than a pipe dream.

                   https://techcrunch.com/2019/03/13/ford-is-expanding-its-self-driving-vehicle-program-to-austin/

                   That is a great deal better than the pessimism of a couple of years ago.

                   https://www.economist.com/science-and-technology/2017/05/25/the-long-winding-road-for-driverless-cars

                   You can read this free if you register, (or of course have a subscription). I think the limit if you register is 5/month.
               • Halfcrown …

                 28 June 2019 at 7:19 pm

                 “I personally think that large vehicle public transport, such as trains, trams and buses will become a thing of the past within about 10 years.”

                 Interesting

                 Beijing underground system registered nearly 10 million commuters each Day last year. Then we have Tokyo New York and I cannot see the London Underground going within 10 years. especailly now they have nearly finished the new crossrail link

                 If they do go I hate to see the traffic chaos caused by this new technology.
                 • alwyn …

                   28 June 2019 at 9:17 pm

                   I'll take your word for those numbers. I don't think you are really allowing for the speed with which technology can change though.

                   Consider mail. Did you know that the number of items delivered by NZ Post dropped from 835 million in FY 2012 to 454 million in FY 2018. The number roughly halved in those 6 years.

                   Or look at the use of cheques. We used 206 million in 2002. That dropped to 110 million in 2011 and was a mere 18 million last year.

                   Did you see that coming?

                   I think that 10 years is actually plenty of time for enormous changes.

                   I'm sure that places like Peking will keep their underground services busy. It will probably be the same way that we kept the railways going in the 1970s. Just ban any alternative. We didn't allow trucks to go more than about 50 km. China will quite likely ban AVs.

                   I really don't want us to spend $10 billion or so on a tram set and to then ban AVs because people would use them instead of a white elephant that we wasted so much money on.

                   Don't build the tram service now. Put the money into roads. In the short term they can be used by buses. In a decade, when the buses will be worn out anyway they will be there for the AVs.

                   Just don't let us become Luddites.
     • mauī 3.2.2

       28 June 2019 at 10:36 am

       You have driven off the lovely man Bleep from this site! Harrassing his every comment until he could comment no more… You are a disgrace! You should be sent IMO (to fight CC).
       • Muttonbird 3.2.2.1

         28 June 2019 at 11:32 am

         Pretty sure bewildered is James using another handle.
         • AB 3.2.2.1.1

           28 June 2019 at 11:59 am

           Two handles are probably useful when barbecuing stuff?
           • Muttonbird 3.2.2.1.1.1

             28 June 2019 at 12:02 pm

             It's the bewildered James show.
             • alwyn …

               28 June 2019 at 12:06 pm

               You spelt the last word incorrectly.

               Surely you were meaning to say "It's the bewildered James Shaw"?
         • Incognito 3.2.2.1.2

           28 June 2019 at 9:14 pm

           As it so happens, I delved into Bewildered’s history here and although it is more colourful than I expected, I don’t think James and Bewildered are one and the same commenter.
       • Bewildered 3.2.2.2

         28 June 2019 at 2:54 pm

         People need to learn not to take life or this site to seriously, just saying Maui and possible laugh at themselves every once and a while My digs at bleep where mild to what is accepted on this site, likewise in response to his digs at me that did not offend me in the slightest
         • Halfcrown 3.2.2.2.1

           28 June 2019 at 7:49 pm

           I like collecting snippets of wisdom and quotes. This one is a favourite of mine

           “ Blessed are those who can laugh at themselves.
           As they shall always be amused…………………………………..Annom.”
   • Incognito 3.3

     28 June 2019 at 2:21 pm

     See my Moderation note @ 8:01 AM.
4. francesca 4

   28 June 2019 at 9:01 am

   Went to hear Thomas Nash speak yesterday, on social and co-housing possibilities in NZ

   https://www.doubledenim.nz/fanny-pack/thomas-nash

   He also did a quick run down on how our economy has become financialised, and our housing needs commodified.

   One thing explored was the Preston effect, whereby a city in Lancashire pulled itself out of the ruins of neoliberal inspired poverty and began to thrive again …an ongoing project

   https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/jan/31/preston-hit-rock-bottom-took-back-control#comment-111568613

   What struck me was

   Would we be able to take this route, given our signing up to the CTPPPA or whatever the hell its called now?

   I think we can no longer favour local contractors in procurements?

   And how thoroughly our publicly owned social infrastructure has been stripped in comparison to the UK
   • johnm 4.1

     28 June 2019 at 11:28 am

     100% francesca 🙂

     The opposite of neoliberalism. No shareholders no paying money to say the privatised half of Genesis energy. Keep it all in your economy. But the city council no longer plays that game. Instead it has adopted a guerrilla localism. It keeps its money as close to home as possible so that, amid historically drastic cuts, the amount spent locally has gone up. Where other authorities privatise, Preston grows its own businesses. It even creates worker-owned co-operatives.
     Credit Unions not loan sharks.
     local government controlling the market not a dog wagged by its market tail.
     The Tppa would stop all this replacing local sustainability with globalism. Don’t offshore your jobs for shareholder profit keep them local for wages and local taxes to improve community.

     Consultancy fees get rid of them grow your own expertise. The goverment should be reading this article.
     • johnm 4.1.1

       28 June 2019 at 11:39 am

       We should be raising a rabble to go and find our money. Look under fay, richwhite, gibb, chandler, hart etc’s beds for a start off. Our tax system gave them our money. Hart just bought a $51 million dollar flat in NYC. Fay is just a scant few million away from being a billionaire. Westpac bank just took $555 million dollars in profit from us over a six month period, no doubt aided and abetted by our tax system to do so.

       If NZ is a Preston we've been committing financial and social suicide since 1984.
5. Peter 5

   28 June 2019 at 9:33 am

   Something nice happening in the morning can put a smile on your face for the day.

   I heard Judith Collins being all nice-nice about Phil Twyford. You know, stateswoman like, adult, conciliatory understanding, with the bigger picture in view of what's good for the country. You know trying to sound party leadership material and, well, Prime Ministerial.

   Then we went into Clinton-Lewinsky mode. "I did not have dinner relations with that man." RNZ tapes, "I did have dinner relations with that woman."

   Of course there's a battle to be fought and being fought and the skirmishes confuse some minds. With Judith it's a bit complicated because sometimes an incidental drop-in cup of tea while going past the door is actually a many months organised formal dinner in the completely opposite direction.

   With Simon? Who knows with such confusion. But you have to laugh but in doing so not overlook the significance.

   https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/morningreport/audio/2018701723/collins-has-a-bit-of-sympathy-for-twyford-after-reshuffle
   • ianmac 5.1

     28 June 2019 at 9:44 am

     Yes Judith is reborning herself from that feisty aggressive take to prisoners but take the tyre burning cars sort of image, and is now copying Jacinda's conciliatory balanced friendly persona. And in doing so providing a great contrast to Simon's shouty hysterical blunderbuss approach.

     All of Parliament is a stage folks.
     • alwyn 5.1.1

       28 June 2019 at 10:22 am

       Perhaps you could have given a bit more of that quote. Then it could have been applied to that great comic actor who plays the buffoon in each performance of Parliament.

       "All the world’s a stage,
       And all the men and women merely players:
       They have their exits and their entrances;
       And one man in his time plays many parts,"

       ………..

       "Last scene of all,
       That ends his strange eventful history,
       In second childishness and mere oblivion
       Sans teeth, sans eyes, sans taste, sans everything."

       Twyford, with his activities, jumped immediately to the seventh stage. Why is he still there? Why has he not been shuffled off stage into obscurity?
       • Fireblade 5.1.1.1

         28 June 2019 at 11:09 am

         So many questions, so few answers.

         Why is Simon Bridges still the leader of the National Party when he is so unpopular, so incompetent and is under investigation by the SFO?

         Why is he still there? Why has he not shuffled off stage into obscurity for the good of the National Party?
       • ianmac 5.1.1.2

         28 June 2019 at 11:35 am

         The seventh stages is for me but far away for Phil. Thank you alwyn for the fuller quote but for whom should the various crowns fit? Where would Nick Smith fit?
         • alwyn 5.1.1.2.1

           28 June 2019 at 11:53 am

           I really think that Nick Smith, and Trevor Mallard should happily shuffle off into retirement together. They both fit the Cromwell judgement below, although I think they are both still into the sixth age of Shakespeare. Only just still there but they aren't into the final age yet.

           “You have been sat to long here for any good you have been doing. Depart, I say, and let us have done with you. In the name of God, go!.”

           In Trevor's case of course there is another applicable comment from the Lord Protector.

           “Take away that fool’s bauble, the mace”
           • mac1 5.1.1.2.1.1

             28 June 2019 at 2:09 pm

             The Lord Protector is not known by that name in Ireland where the Cromwellian invasion saw 600,000 people die as a result- 40% of the population.

             That kind of 'protection' had its modern equivalent in Hue in Vietnam that "had to be destroyed in order to save it."
             • alwyn …

               28 June 2019 at 5:10 pm

               I din't actually say, and nor do I think, that Cromwell was an admirable figure. It was just that the quotes seem to be so appropriate.

               And if your figures are right I can certainly see why the hatred of him would remain. No doubt they would have been very happy when, 3 years after he died, his body was exhumed and, according to Wikipedia "His body was hanged in chains at Tyburn, London and then thrown into a pit. His head was cut off and displayed on a pole outside Westminster Hall until 1685"
             • McFlock …

               28 June 2019 at 5:56 pm

               There was a story about a UK Foreign Office meeting room where they negotiated with foreign diplomats under a huge painting of a battlefield (probably Waterloo). Deciding that this wasn't very diplomatic, they replaced it with a picture of Cromwell. An Irish delegation walked into the room, saw the picture, turned around and walked out again, expressing frank disapproval.
   • ankerawshark 5.2

     28 June 2019 at 11:02 am

     Just said this very thing about Judith to hubby this morning before reading your comment Peter.

     Lets all do the Orivida chant to bring some reality about Ms Collins persona
     • ianmac 5.2.1

       28 June 2019 at 11:31 am

       The big question would be, "Would the real Judith Collins please stand up?"
       • AB 5.2.1.1

         28 June 2019 at 12:07 pm

         I wouldn't rush to assume that there is only one 'real' Judith. It may be falling into an essentialist trap. Probably there are multitudes of real Judiths, depending on what is required at the time.
       • Red Blooded One 5.2.1.2

         28 June 2019 at 2:37 pm

         Yes, I think you could partly describe her as Slim Shady, very Eminem Esque.
6. Herodotus 6

   28 June 2019 at 11:37 am

   With the issue Min Hopkins has with Principals I wonder what will be in the final report back to the minister ?

   Perhaps we will also see an estimated financial cost to implement ?

   https://conversation.education.govt.nz/conversations/tomorrows-schools-review/
7. Muttonbird 7

   28 June 2019 at 12:39 pm

   Jong Kee has obviously decided he has enough distance from the Hisco fiasco to be able to beg the FMA to give him and his company the good once over.

   https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/money/2019/06/fma-to-investigate-suspicious-anz-house-sale-to-former-ceo-s-wife.html
8. adam 8

   28 June 2019 at 1:05 pm

   How to deal with white nationalists and a bit of a history.

   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8WG9e-4kK-g&ab_channel=TheLauraFlandersShow
9. soddenleaf 9

   28 June 2019 at 1:29 pm

   Why Iran, China, Russia? The more powerful, the less accountable to the rule of law, the poorer trading partners. Whichever side of politics we are, it just doesn't make sense to expose our economies to nations who disregard the rule of law. Whether Iran, by religious edict, China by party corruption, or Russia with a breakdown in its money judiciary. Who cares how it effects Iranians, Chinese, Russians, it's just cheating, it means we compete with cheaters, those who get ahead by buying their way out of self harm. We just don't need their crap, Europe really needs to pull its head in and decide to raise tariffs. Now sure America is cursed by fiscal cheaters, but that's why Trumps president, exposing why stupid as commander in chief, or head of banks, are anti American. Not only to Americans but to the world.
10. Molly 10

    28 June 2019 at 1:40 pm

    Just commenting on another anomaly with the First Year fees free scheme.

    As home educators we often use a combination of self-study and institutional study. Enrolled in a tertiary preparation study, which is online delivered and fairly static, we have found out – retrospectively – that this has utilised up 40 credits of any fees free tertiary study that may follow. Given that this is a tertiary preparation course – but grade Level 4 – which used to be free from some institutions – it was not stated through the enrolment process that this is utilising a third of any entitlement to fees free tertiary study. Depending on the follow up course, this loss of entitlement transfers to up to $1,000 – $2,000 in fees.

    Something to keep in mind for others on alternate academic pathways, and perhaps something else for this coalition government to keep in mind when reviewing current implementation.
11. mary_a 11

    28 June 2019 at 3:39 pm

    An interesting article from Stuff, about the inconsistencies of ANZ when dealing with staff “mistakes” from a former staff member.

    However, only 2 comments allowed, before closing off comments completely. What is it with anything to do with John Key in media, that public opinion is cut short? Is he so "sacred" that he cannot be critiqued because he has become totally untouchable? I'd like to know what/who is supplying protection to him and why! Or should that be Him, as when addressing a holy deity?

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/113846220/anz-staffer-i-was-fired-for-making-money-appear#comments
12. cleangreen 12

    28 June 2019 at 7:39 pm

    "End of life choice bill"

    I was chemically poisoned on my job while working in Canada and was treated for several years to be able to return to my home in NZ and 20yrs later at 75 yrs old as a baby boomer I face uncertainty as NZ does not treat anyone with the latent effects of chemical poisoning,

    so now technically I could be ruled as "uncurable in NZ's inadequate medical system so I may fall through the cracks if this bill is passed to receive "assisted death as technically I cannot be treated to live any more.

    The people who dreamed up this "assisted dying bill" are not thinking it through as I have had to do, because they have merely said the bill is suited for all but I would not be considered uncurable if I returned to Canada because they have clinics to treat patients that have been chemically poisoned and NZ does not.

    So the 'assisted death bill' will give doctors the licence to kill because they have not been given neither the skills and regimen to save those of us that have been chemically poisoned.

    Sad people that vote for this "End of life choice bill”.

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