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Open mike 28/02/2014

Written By: - Date published: 6:54 am, February 28th, 2014 - 171 comments
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openmike Open mike is your post.

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The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

171 comments on “Open mike 28/02/2014 ”

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  1. Paul 1
    28 February 2014 at 7:27 am

    After the ‘Speaking for the 0%’ article ( http://dimpost.wordpress.com/2014/02/26/speaking-for-the-0/ )
    here’s Herald ACT watch…
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11210507
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11209825

    0 % of the vote, 20% of the attention.
    Is Roughan, Sullivan, Murphy and the rest of the Herlad repeaters card carrying members of ACT?

    Or do the paper’s owner’s (APN News & Media Limited) and their major shareholders want to pay less tax?

  2. Philj 2
    28 February 2014 at 7:48 am

    Xox
    Another bad day for NZ with Phillipino workers rebuilding Christchurch being exploited by corporate construction companies. Working for $16 per hour and weekends for free, and extortionate fees to dodgy immigration officers. NZ has become a place with low standards. Like a poor US southern state.

    • KJT 2.1
      28 February 2014 at 9:37 am

      I am a bit baffled as to where they found the Filipinos getting as much as $16 an hour.

      Minimum wage, or less, is more like it.

      • Lanthanide 2.1.1
        28 February 2014 at 12:47 pm

        Skilled construction jobs. I’m sure they’re still being paid less than other nationalities would be.

        • McFlock 2.1.1.1
          28 February 2014 at 1:54 pm

          probably being overcharged for company-supplied “accommodation”, too.

          • KJT 2.1.1.1.1
            28 February 2014 at 2:03 pm

            The next “leaky homes” when all the Christchurch building done by cheap semi-skilled, badly supervised, labour comes home to roost.

            It has been good for the rest of New Zealand though.

            All the cowboys who undercut real builders, have left for Christchurch.

          • Murray Olsen 2.1.1.1.2
            1 March 2014 at 1:08 am

            And a storage fee for their passports, no doubt. These companies really value their workers. Sigh.

    • PapaMike 2.2
      28 February 2014 at 2:11 pm

      Is it not the Philippine Employment Agencies to whom they paid money for the job who are the offenders ?

  3. phillip ure 3
    28 February 2014 at 8:17 am

    i found a round-up of batshit crazy rightwing reactions to the vetoing.. by the governor..

    .. of an anti-gay bill in arizona..

    ..(that would have allowed people to discriminate against gays..on ‘religious grounds’..(!)..)

    ..and this one is my favourite:..

    ’Now we’ll all have to bake penis cakes’.

    ..phillip ure..

  4. phillip ure 4
    28 February 2014 at 8:35 am

    and of course that duopoly that profiteers by flogging us (expensive!) unhealthy fat/salt/sugar/chemical-laden crap..

    ..disguised/marketed as ‘food’..

    (their taglines should be:..’come buy your premature/nasty illness/death from us..!’..

    ..”..want obese/unhealthy children..?..shop at (fill blank space)..!’)

    ..they aren’t just screaming out for the twofer of regulation/reform..

    .are they..?

    “..500 Other Foods Besides Subway Sandwich Bread – Containing Yoga Mat Chemical..”

    http://www.alternet.org/food/500-other-foods-besides-subway-sandwich-bread-containing-yoga-mat-chemical

    phillip ure..

    • bad12 4.1
      28 February 2014 at 8:59 am

      Looks like it’s Mung beans and Lentils from here on in then Phillip, seems a lot of the 500 ‘other foods’ are bread products,

      Just dragged what’s left of my loaf of multi grain outta the cupboard and ‘Innocence” is screamed at me from the table of contents,

      Best i ask Google what are Emulsifiers 471 and 481 befor i agree with any claim of such ‘Innocence’…

    • Danske 4.2
      28 February 2014 at 1:11 pm

      Are you off your rocker, Mr Ure? Sorry, but you wrote unadulterated rubbish.

      • phillip ure 4.2.1
        28 February 2014 at 2:15 pm

        “..Are you off your rocker, Mr Ure? ..”

        ..debatable..depends who you talk to..

        “..you wrote unadulterated rubbish.”

        ..could you sort that ‘rubbish’ a bit more..

        ..be more specific about what it is you disagree with..and why..?

        ..and i will try to answer you..

        ..and/or..do you have shares/a financial-interest in that duopoly..?

        ..that could explain your splutter..

        ..or..do you sell something ‘Containing Yoga Mat Chemical’..?

        ..phillip ure..

  5. freedom 5
    28 February 2014 at 9:25 am

    this was shared on FB today, anyone able to confirm it ?

    I am told that Parliamentary Services is coming out with a new Code of Conduct that not only bans political activity by Out of Parliamentary staff in work time, but also bans any political activity out of work hours. This is a flagrant breach of civil rights. No employer can dictate to workers what they do in their own time! I suggest if you aren’t already a union member, join up now. It is time to take a stand against the silencing of workers in public service. BTW You can join the SFWU. We’ll stand by you!

    ( I copy/pasted what was posted )

      • freedom 5.1.1
        28 February 2014 at 9:55 am

        Those videos are such a waste of time, money, people and are a terrible example of everything useless the combination of those three things can create. The invasive aroma of bad ideas that reeked from the screen when I saw that the other day is still causing reflux.

        But as to the posting above, I only received the text, which I posted, with no supporting data. That is why I dropped it in here to see if anyone had any other information.

    • Antonina 5.2
      28 February 2014 at 9:50 am

      Yes that information is correct.
      I should like to remain an anonymouus parliamentary service employee.

      • Rosie 5.2.1
        28 February 2014 at 10:00 am

        Antonina, quick quick quick, get off this site! Your presence here is compromising your political neutrality!!!

      • freedom 5.2.2
        28 February 2014 at 10:01 am

        Thanks Antonia

        Hopefully it gets shared widely, with enough questions attached that it gets onto the right desks and someone decides the future of an employee’s political freedom should remain an important part of our democracy and is deemed worthy of being a news item. Unless of course Miley bends over again or there is a sighting of a puppy wearing a tutu.

        Our MSM is fubar.

        Kia kaha to all who care

      • freedom 5.2.3
        28 February 2014 at 10:11 am

        and please excuse the typo Antonina

  6. Rosie 6
    28 February 2014 at 9:29 am

    On the topic of pantry items. Am I the only one who looks at expiry dates on dry goods in the pantry and for example, notices it might be something like 15 January 2015, and feels a thrill go through your heart as you think “those fuckers will be well and truly gone by then” ?

    Inane observation of the day.

    • ianmac 6.1
      28 February 2014 at 10:30 am

      Or the pantry ones that have 1 June 2003. Aha! A bargain and still going strong.

    • veutoviper 6.2
      28 February 2014 at 10:37 am

      LOL – yes, Rosie I do the same; and usually look at the best by/use by date when buying.

      I am totally obsessive in looking at the ingredients of most food products before buying – and the different prices for different sizes, different brands. Shopping is time consuming! But it is amazing how often two of a smaller size (eg 500g) cost less than the 1kg price Rice is one recent example. Go figure. And the fat level and sodium levels for essentially the same product (eg rice crackers and other types of crackers) can vary widely depending on the brand and the flavour.

      But I don’t want to trigger another long thread as I did some Saturdays ago when my comment to phil or bad12 (?) that Kim Dotcom did not drink alcohol but a lot of milk led to a flood …. So I will shut up now!

      • Rosie 6.2.1
        28 February 2014 at 10:53 am

        Veutoviper, I have a count -down- to -election- time calendar in my head when looking at expiry dates on dry goods. Not on the chilled products mind you, theres no way we can get rid of this government that fast.

        I’m also a vigilant shopper/ ingredients label and expiry date reader. On the subject of buying two smaller sizes of a product for less than the larger size, yes it is puzzling. Thats how I usually buy my Spanish Borges olive oil, 2 X 500ml instead of the I ltr. Yet, it’s the opposite for booze, Maybe you just want to buy one single mini serve of 180ml and that can be $5 but the 750ml bottle can be only $9 on special. Smaller purchases of alcohol should be encouraged.

        And lol, yes, best be careful with the food discussions, it can get personal and a bit fraught at times.

  7. karol 7
    28 February 2014 at 9:47 am

    Heh. Well said “Comrade Boni” on floating the idea of a government/state owned supermarket chain.

    • phillip ure 7.1
      28 February 2014 at 10:11 am

      [email protected]:..a new govt-owned supermarket-chain..?..or (my idea) of partial nationalisation..?..

      (excerpt..)

      “..ed:..i prefer my idea of partial-nationalisation of the current duopoly..

      ..whereby the state takes/(buys out..paying from future-profits) 51% control of both chains..

      ..this will achieve the above-touted outcomes for a govt owned chain..

      ..but right across the board..

      ..plus..partial nationalisation avoids the horrendously expensive costs in setting up a competing chain..nationwide..

      ..you just have to work with what is already there..

      ..no set-up costs..”

      (cont..)

      http://whoar.co.nz/2014/a-new-govt-owned-supermarket-chain-or-my-idea-of-partial-nationalisation/

    • bad12 7.2
      28 February 2014 at 10:14 am

      Yes i would definitely agree to direct State owned intervention to create competition in the Supermarket industry,

      It becomes a pointless ‘moan’ unless a Government is prepared to act and rolling out across the country a Supermarket chain capable of introducing a real level of competitive pricing among the big 2 currently operating in this country would provide to the average citizen ‘gains’ on a number of levels along with a profit making enterprise for the Governments coffers along with ‘buying power’ which would favor New Zealand made goods,

      The added pluses to this are extra sustainable employment, both directly and indirectly, lower food bills for Kiwis thus creating a lower level of inflation where it matters the most to the most people…

      • srylands 7.2.1
        28 February 2014 at 10:19 am

        We can call it Kiwimart.

        • felix 7.2.1.1
          28 February 2014 at 10:27 am

          No, we will decide what to call it. You’re not included.

        • freedom 7.2.1.2
          28 February 2014 at 10:33 am

          all jokes aside srylands,

          Kiwimart could be a great way of focusing on Kiwi Goods and it could even be done inside the existing supermarkets.

          Imagine if there was a Kiwi Goods section in the supermarket, or Kiwi Goods shelves distributed amongst each Supermarket sector.

          Not only would it offer Kiwis the choice to openly support local product and produce, but it would most certainly highlight how many Kiwi dollars leave the country every time you do your shopping.

          well maybe not your shopping of course,
          are you in NZ this week?

          Then again the shift to a Kiwimart might expose the deathgrip on Kiwi goods that the OZ supermarkets have, so their owners would probably not be entirely supportive of the idea.

          • Jim Nald 7.2.1.2.1
            28 February 2014 at 11:03 am

            Hmm .. perhaps call it something along the lines of the National Trade Union Congress FairPrice … grin … some of you who have travelled to a certain country might recognise that … or rather NTUC FairPrice 🙂

          • greywarbler 7.2.1.2.2
            28 February 2014 at 11:13 am

            The supermarkets would charge the Kiwi marts extra for setting aside the dedicated area.
            I must remember to go regularly to the local farmers market. On my to do list. I do shop at the organic green grocers so that’s a small tick for me.

        • bad12 7.2.1.3
          28 February 2014 at 10:38 am

          We can call you T–lling s–thead SSlands…

          • Mainlander 7.2.1.3.1
            28 February 2014 at 11:17 am

            I thought trolls were the ones that sat around all day every day abusing people that didnt agree with their opinions, cant imagine who that might be refering to eh

            • bad12 7.2.1.3.1.1
              28 February 2014 at 1:44 pm

              SSLands, deserves little else, a special case of trotting out the same old lies day after day in spite of being linked to specific information which proves ‘its’ lies are just that the next day ‘it’ is back again with the same old lies,

              The short version of the above is F off dick…

        • Skinny 7.2.1.4
          28 February 2014 at 11:22 am

          I will give you an ‘C’ for effort Shrillands. Your suggested name Kiwimart got downgraded due to the ‘mart’ which reminds too many of us Lefties of the scumbag American chain ‘Walmart’

          However on a brighter note the people’s supermarket will require very good accountants. Which will allow you to dust off your CV. Note: incomes of staff including CEO, Accountants and other paper shufflers will not exceed 10 x the lowest paid worker base rate of $18.80 per hour.

          • Skinny 7.2.1.4.1
            28 February 2014 at 11:47 am

            On reflection 10x is far to generous make it x7

            • bad12 7.2.1.4.1.1
              28 February 2014 at 1:46 pm

              Skinny how bout x5 a far easier calculation, with small bonuses for providing the most competitive prices across all items while still returning a profit to the Government…

              • Skinny …
                28 February 2014 at 4:13 pm

                X5 which broken down into an hourly rate equates to $94, however we would have to write into an employment agreement capped at no more than 5 Sundays to be worked. The temptation of gaming the system to cash in on the double time rate of $188.00 would be too much. Are you listening Shrillands 🙂

            • Draco T Bastard 7.2.1.4.1.2
              28 February 2014 at 1:46 pm

              3x

              • Skinny …
                28 February 2014 at 4:17 pm

                X3? I now understand where the Bastard in your dial comes from lol.

                • bad12 …
                  28 February 2014 at 4:57 pm

                  Lolz, now that Draco has undercut us i feel like i have to take on the guise of a Tory Mogul and agree with the x3 proposition,(perhaps we should just have a management committee made up of a number of those working on the shop floor on a rotational basis, they could meet outside of their shift hours and make decisions then, being paid double or triple time for the extra work)…

          • Murray Olsen 7.2.1.4.2
            1 March 2014 at 1:17 am

            SSLands can start his 90 day trial on a beginners’ rate of $4 an hour. He’s lucky we don’t charge him for the valuable skills he’ll be picking up. Of course, once he pays for the voluntary drug testing each week, his pay will be a bit less, but it’s for his own good after all.

      • phillip ure 7.2.2
        28 February 2014 at 10:22 am

        why not just partial-nationalise the existing duopoly..?

        ..you achieve all those ends you list..across the board..

        ..and you avoid the eye-watering costs/time-taken/logistics-problems involved to set up a competing chain/supply lines..

        ..(with some vague hope of battering the curent duopoly into submission thru competition..?

        ..i just see that as an expensive minefield..)

        ..partial-nationalise is effective..broad-based..immediate..

        ..and cheap as chips to do..

        ..phillip ure..

        • felix 7.2.2.1
          28 February 2014 at 10:29 am

          Yep and the tories can’t complain either, seeing as how they all put so much energy into telling everyone that part-privatised is teh awesome.

          • phillip ure 7.2.2.1.1
            28 February 2014 at 10:41 am

            @ felix..

            ..aye..!

            ..i’m actually waiting for them to come out in support of this partial-nationalisation/51%-control idea..

            ..am i being unrealistic in my expectations..?

            ..you mean..!..it was just all ideological-rhetoric from them..?

            ..all that ‘teh awesome’ stuff..?

            ..say it isn’t so..!

            ..phillip ure..

        • bad12 7.2.2.2
          28 February 2014 at 10:50 am

          That Phillip is a recipe to have New Zealand become the Cuba of the South Pacific, do you think International Capital would simply sit still and say ”Ho Hum” as a New Zealand Government engaged in what they would call an act of theft,

          Rolling out a supermarket chain across the country paid for from the tax base can have no such negative effects as those which would occur upon the seizing of the means of distribution would have…

          • phillip ure 7.2.2.2.1
            28 February 2014 at 10:58 am

            it is not ‘theft’..

            ..current shareholders are bought out..nothing is ‘stolen’ from them..

            ..and if other overseas models arestudied..

            ..it will be shown that my partial-nationalisation idea is not only not fraught with those eyewatering set-up costs..

            ..it is not actually that radical an idea..

            ..and it’s ultimate beauty is..

            ..that it is a simple solution to a set of complex-problems..(if tackled any other way..)

            ..upcoming healthy-food regulations implementation..

            ..not being the least of these..

            ..(+..of course..51% control..means 51% of the annual profits..

            ..are returned to the people who put that money into those tills..

            ..this also..makes this a multi-win-win solution..financially..

            ..on every level..and in every way..)

            phillip ure..

            • bad12 7.2.2.2.1.1
              28 February 2014 at 11:16 am

              Yeah right!!!, so as soon as the Government attempted to buy up the shares in the Supermarket chains their price would suddenly skyrocket, and, that is said without having even checked to see if the duopoly is actually a solely Australian registered monopoly which would make any Government regulatory move to ‘buy’ the shares impossible,

              Good to see Phillip you are concerned with keeping the enrichment of the current owners in place…

              • phillip ure …
                28 February 2014 at 11:42 am

                interesting how you so cower in fear of the current paradigm..

                ..(and urge we just leave them alone..?..(!)..)

                ..boo..!..foreign-owners will be pissed..?

                ..cry me a river..eh..?

                ..and i notice you don’t answer the concerns/main objection to yr old-skool socialist wet-dream idea..

                ..namely the eyewatering costs/amount of time/logistical-nightmares involved ..

                ..in yr setting-up-a-new-chain..idea..

                ..(and yr first ‘prices will skyrocket objection is both farcical/a nonsense..and easy to counter..)

                ..is that all you’ve got..?

                ..phillip ure..

                • bad12 …
                  28 February 2014 at 1:37 pm

                  That comment Phillis, which is simply a trail of un-factual abuse is obviously a result of your over-use of your penis-pump so it’s best you put it away for the day and switch to Daisy your blow-up rubber woman…

                  • phillip ure …
                    28 February 2014 at 2:05 pm

                    what a strange little person you are..

                    ..have you always had issues with anger management..?

                    ..do you speak this way when interacting face-to-face..?

                    ..spilling into personal-abuse at the drop of a hat..?

                    ..(and invariably sexual-fetishistic in nature/tone..quite complicated/complex..are you..?..)

                    ..or is it just the keyboard-warrior in you..acting out..?

                    ..that makes you so dick-wavey..?

                    ..best you retire to the re-group-corner..again..eh..?

                    ..and maybe you need a ciggie..?

                    ..give the monkey a snack..

                    ..eh..?

                    ..phillip ure..

                    • bad12 …
                      28 February 2014 at 2:21 pm

                      Another tragic example of Babble speak Phillis, at least this one escaped moderating wink wink and gave you less excuse to whine like a beaten dog,

                    • phillip ure …
                      28 February 2014 at 3:07 pm

                      um..!

                      ..how old are you..?..

                      ..(decade-band will do..)

                      .(i’m picking 19..?..lot’s of acne..?..pretty awkward/anti-social..?..)

                      ..engage in auto-eroticism perhaps a tad more than most..?

                      ..diagnosed with adhd when a child..?

                      ..prescribed ritalin then..?..still..?

                      ..phillip ure..

                    • bad12 …
                      28 February 2014 at 4:05 pm

                      Phillis, another disjointed piece of junkies drivel from your 2 working neurons, please refer to my comment to you of 1.37pm as the answer…

                    • phillip ure …
                      28 February 2014 at 5:16 pm

                      um..!..i’m just gonna give ignoring you another go..

                      ..any slight questioning of yr prescriptions unleashes a torrent of (poorly-composed)/’blow-up-doll’ (!) themed flaming..

                      ..and it is very very same-same boring..

                      ..so i think i will just leave you to howl into the void..

                      ..(don’t forget to take yr ciggies..eh..?..)

                      ..you little ball of fun..you..

                      ..phillip ure..

        • cricklewood 7.2.2.3
          28 February 2014 at 11:11 am

          Im not sure that you will lower prices though? Surely any nationalized supermarket should be expected to treat suppliers fairly and to pay them a fair price? Plenty of family growers work effectively for a pittance if you work it out hourly… a lot are marginal at best and only continue due to already owning land and its the sole source of income…
          Its actually fiercely competitive hence suppliers are been hammered so hard to maintain profit levels. Take out the profit things get cheaper but do you still hammer the suppliers?

          • freedom 7.2.2.3.1
            28 February 2014 at 11:40 am

            or, radical concept time……

            Keep prices where they are and make sure the profit is shared more equally by giving more of it to the suppliers in a ‘reward for sales’ bonus scheme to top up the wholesale price instead of just shoveling barrow loads of cash into the open jowls of the shareholders.

            The more of a product that people buy, the better return that product delivers to everyone.
            This would also encourage better quality products and fairer pricing.

            This obviously sits easily on the Kiwimart shelves as the rewards would get redistributed back into the local community producing the goods.

            this could be the future of your neighborhood
            of your neighborhood
            of your neighborhood

            this could be the future of your neighborhood
            if people only knew that things could change

        • Danske 7.2.2.4
          28 February 2014 at 1:31 pm

          Mr Ure, have you conside how silly your proposal is?
          I suggest you think before you write, otherwise people will skip your silly comments.

          • Draco T Bastard 7.2.2.4.1
            28 February 2014 at 1:52 pm

            I suggest you take your own advice.

          • phillip ure 7.2.2.4.2
            28 February 2014 at 5:25 pm

            @ danske..

            ..i have asked you further up the thread to detail yr objections..and for why..

            ..and that i will try to answer/address them for you..

            ..how about you ‘consider’ that..?

            ..otherwise..you are just really spluttering..eh..?

            ..phillip ure..

      • aerobubble 7.2.3
        28 February 2014 at 3:51 pm

        NZ’s was built in the oil glut era. As any competitive retailer will tell you, its all about passing traffic. If you can locate your retail outlet where people are likely to stop you half way there to profitability.

        So we live in this car country, where government has been interfering in the free market. Yes the free market is good and does work without government intervention, the only problem is we can’t live without a government and it has to intervene. So the distraction of the right is to make out they rejoice in the free market while ignoring government interventions, and the left likewise ignores the free market while lusting after government interventions.

        We can only have trust in government when both the effects and choices of how government is actually intervening and how we want to pick and choose which interventions. You see the political class wants to keep this actual debate out of the way so they can pick and choose, and so
        create the inequality and poorly designed cities, that reward big companies, big retail, big drugs, etc… big fast food, big car.

        Now I would argue we cant just start from year one again, we have to accept the landscape we live in, and so over emphasis the remedies. Public transport for example to offset how big retail benefits from our investment in roading.

        Take the dams, someone actively got it into their head that the public didn’t pay for them and so we all now aren’t paying enough for electricity. While that kind of outrageous lie is constructed how can we trust either major party.

        Take the nonsense about land farming, by not measuring the quality and quantity of the toxic inputs to the soil, or the outputs, the scientist was able to claim land farming wasn’t so bad.

        That’s wrong. Yet its common practice to allow distortion into the debate, because it serves both the major parties, as they can bury how they actually decide which winners to choose.

    • Rosie 7.3
      28 February 2014 at 10:41 am

      That was a good article article karol. I was interested in the overseas examples, in particular, the Swiss co-op.

      I’d definitely support either a government owned supermarket or people owned national cooperative alongside improved regulation for privately owned supermarkets, especially around employment and suppliers.

      Any new grocery chain could raise the stakes in regard to retailing ethical products. For instance a Govt owned or coop could have it’s own farms where only the highest standards of animal welfare were the norm (which should be the case any way but isn’t). All imported goods could be fair traded as much as possible

      All workers on the farms, distribution centres and in the supermarket to be paid the living wage and not be discouraged from being a Union member. Self serve checkouts wouldn’t exist, customers would be encouraged to interact with workers and more people would be employed. There could be a return to higher levels of service such as workers helping the elderly with their shopping where necessary.

      Such a concept would mean the privately owned supermarkets would be compelled to raise their game.

      • phillip ure 7.3.1
        28 February 2014 at 10:46 am

        @rosie..

        ..so you favour spending an eyewatering amount of money..

        ..with the aim of ‘shaming’ the duopoly into better behaviour..?

        ..you can’t see how fraught with both expenses/obvious dangers this is..?

        ..why not just partial-nationalise the current duopoly..?

        ..none of those expensive costs..

        ..and 51% control would ensure those outcomes you/we all desire..

        ..in one fell/inexpensive legislative-swoop..

        ..tho’ one thing we agree on..

        ..the current ‘freemarket’-model is broken/doesn’t work..

        ..so change/reform for them..

        ..is inevitable..

        ..and really..all their own work..

        ..eh..?

        ..phillip ure..

        • Rosie 7.3.1.1
          28 February 2014 at 11:10 am

          I hear what you are saying about the free market model being broken phil and I agree. However, I do wonder whether we as a public are so culturally entwined with the neo lib agenda that a partial privatisation would freak everyone out. Did you see the author of that article that karol posted say she had a pile of “commie” hate comments in response to her previous article?

          Granted in was in a right wing biased rag so thats not surprising.The same would happen on fearfacts.

          People still bleat on about the neo lib lie of “choice” when they don’t even realise they don’t have any. Give them a real choice! Demonstrate capitalism Vs. people owned and see a cultural shift as the benefits to all become apparent.

          In saying that I’m not ideologically tied to the above suggestion. I’d be thrilled to see any efforts to improve our standards and if that meant partial privatisation of existing supermarkets then, yahoo, bring it on.

        • Rosie 7.3.1.2
          28 February 2014 at 12:13 pm

          Hmm phil just thinking aloud for a moment. There could be a logistical difficulty with the set up of yet another chain of supermarkets, so I may begin to see your point about privatisation, or at least the pro’s in it.

          At first I was thinking of say 4 to 5 supermarkets around the country as a starting point. Dunedin, Chch, Wgtn and Akld and maybe one in the Tron (is Hamilton still called the Tron or is that a bit 90’s?) But this is the thing, in the lower North Island at least the two chains have already reached saturation point, so at least one may need to be taken over.

          For example, I will quote from the (pass the sick bucket) “Peter Dunne Reports” newsletter I have here. He is expressing his enthusiasm for the opening of the new Countdown in Crofton Downs, which he himself opened and states “This is the fifth supermarket to be opened or upgraded in Ohariu in the last two years, so increased competition should improve plenty of bargains for local shoppers”

          Bollocks to that I say. None of these supermarkets have a point of difference from each other and the variety of goods on offer in the northern suburbs in appalling. Cheap crap is cheap crap where ever you go. Thats where a govt run or people run coop would make a difference.

          Also, knowing those in the engineering industry I can say that one particular company is lols lols lols all the way to the bank as they are doing the work for BOTH chains who are desperately trying to get ahead of one another with opening new stores and doing upgrades. There IS shitloads of money being chucked at these stores – so maybe I can see the merit in a partial privatisation, one region at a time. Still gotta pay for it though either way eh?

          • phillip ure 7.3.1.2.1
            28 February 2014 at 12:19 pm

            [email protected] rosie..

            ..i am obviously glad/cheered to see yr rethink on the merits of this idea..

            ..”..Still gotta pay for it though either way eh?..”

            ..easy to pay for..an as yet to be worked out formula of a partial-payment now..(remember..the govt can borrow at basement-rates..and that 51% profit-take will ease/pay for that/any repayment..)

            ..and the rest from future profits..

            ..done..and dusted..

            ..phillip ure..

          • Draco T Bastard 7.3.1.2.2
            28 February 2014 at 2:22 pm

            Also, knowing those in the engineering industry I can say that one particular company is lols lols lols all the way to the bank as they are doing the work for BOTH chains

            Same thing happens in telecommunications. Most of the work is done by contractors who work for all of the telcos.

            There is a distinct lack of competition behind the facade.

            • Rosie 7.3.1.2.2.1
              28 February 2014 at 3:16 pm

              Drax. A crap situation. I just replied to you and lost my reply when I submitted it, but don’t have time to reword it all.

        • bad12 7.3.1.3
          28 February 2014 at 2:01 pm

          Phillis, you argue your point like a snake, a two headed one at that, are you suggesting to Rosie that the Government simply seize the supermarket duopoly by Legislation or legislating to simply take half the shares of the duopoly,

          Admit it, this is just some pie in the sky buzz of a couple of drug addled neurons in your head, the cost of actually buying the 51% stake in the supermarket duopoly on the Australian share-market would far out-way the roll-out of a solely Government owned supermarket chain across the country starting in the cities and as soon as the Government entered the market to buy up such shares the price of them would go through the roof…

          • Rosie 7.3.1.3.1
            28 February 2014 at 3:22 pm

            And an example that illustrates the success of the govt setting up in opposition to private business and forcing it to raise it’s standards, is Kiwibank.

            All done without nationalising a thing. Not that I’m opposed to nationalisation per se, no siree, just thinking of the pro’s and con’s in the supermarket industry in light of this thread.

            Now, I really must dash.

            And bad12, I hope your plants are coming along well. I miss weekend social where such things could be discussed.

            • bad12 7.3.1.3.1.1
              28 February 2014 at 3:58 pm

              Rosie, Re Nationalization, i think if we are going to nationalize anything it would have to be a whole of economy nationalization, and for that we would need a one Party State to ensure longevity,

              Borrowing monies to indulge in some fanciful forced buy in to the current operating supermarket chains i consider to be laughable as the banking cartels upon seeing such Legislation of forced buy-in would simply refuse to lend such monies,

              i would suggest the most efficient means of addressing competition in the supermarket duopoly would be for the Government to establish its own chain with a direct intent of having the lowest prices in the country and providing a return to the Government which should not hve to only rely upon the tax base for earnings,

              Other than that the Government perhaps should facilitate the entry into the market of the German supermarket operator Aldi said to have recently entered the Australian market with pricing on average 20% lower than the Australian operators,

              The garden was a great success again this year after a bad start which i put down to the utter crap weather that kept on hammering us well into November, and my use of bought compost which i had been digging into the soil, i had to spend a couple of days pumping in water so as to dilute the stuff which along with the weather was giving my babies a bad case of burnt leaves,

              The compost works great as a top dressing and eventually my plants did their thing growing like jacks beanstalks, i have a crop that i have just about finished processing, taking the stem out of the middle of the leaf and giving them a first cut on the road to being a rollable, smokable product,

              i have 3 left in the ground waiting for the seed pods to dry enough so i can harvest next years seeds,(no worries if the weather lets me down there i can buy some in), and now it’s back to slowly feeding all my plots with food scraps and my own compost made from tree clippings, lawn mowing’s and general weeding,(plus my neighbour from down the street has started dropping off His food scraps, a bonus for us both as He has no means of recycling them),

              i am now well ahead as this years good crop will put me ahead by about a 2 year supply with a better smoke being the result of having a longer curing time, the neighborhood cats are also as happy as i am as they can do their thing without the monstrous human throwing hunks of wood at them,(they should complain if only they had been around to see what i threw off the balcony at a dog that kept coming up to my place from the house below to shit in my plots while my little ones were trying to take root),

              Lolz Rosie, that’s my short garden talk for the day, how does you one grow…

              • phillip ure …
                28 February 2014 at 6:03 pm

                “..Ban roll-your-own tobacco – expert

                Roll-your-own tobacco is ”more dangerous” than factory-made cigarettes –

                • and should be banned –

                • says Professor Richard Edwards –

                • head of public health at the University of Otago’s Wellington campus.”

                http://www.nzherald.co.nz/lifestyle/news/article.cfm?c_id=6&objectid=11211577

                phillip ure..

                • fender …
                  28 February 2014 at 6:18 pm

                  Tailor-made cigarettes have a high percentage of bark-like twigs in them, and when they are broken apart and re-rolled two or three roll-your-own type cigarettes will result.

                  “In New Zealand the ”concentration of additives is higher in loose tobacco at about 18%, compared with 0.5% for factory-made cigarettes”

                  I suspect the reverse is true.

                  I’d like to see the evidence the professor failed to link to.

                  • fender …
                    28 February 2014 at 6:32 pm

                    Interesting that one minute Prof Edwards said “roll-your-own tobacco was at least as harmful as factory-rolled tobacco”, then later he says “more dangerous”.

                    But don’t worry Phillip, Bad12 grows his own so there will be no additives in his.

                    Incidentally, a cannabis cigarette is said to be worth 4 or 5 tobacco smokes as far as lung damage(?)

                    • bad12 …
                      28 February 2014 at 7:15 pm

                      Lolz fender, but Phillip needs His Marijuana as a crutch for the Needle full of chem He so loves shoving up His arm and can no longer support the doing of financially,

                      Can say that there is probably less Nicotine in the home grown stuff, and from experience definitely less tar,

                      As i was building up to finding out the amount i needed to grow to support the addiction for a whole year i was in previous years having to resort to the bought stuff as i run out of home grown,

                      The first day of the change i noticed there was definitely a queasy oily feeling going on in my gut,

                      Anecdotal of course, i would love for one of the universities to do a chemical comparison,

                      i am of course a bit annoyed with the advertising, might have to do a query with the standards authority, having smoked tobacco for 44 years, most of that unfiltered bought tobacco or boob weed surely i should be a prime candidate for ‘Death’,

                      Having endured a series of blood tests and x-rays in the past couple of months there’s no sign that it’s happening anytime soon, i want my money
                      back it sure as hell is taking its sweet time to snuff me…

                    • phillip ure …
                      28 February 2014 at 7:23 pm

                      @ fender..

                      ..untrue..

                      ..if true..all those old hippies would be presenting with corresponding lung disease rates..by now..

                      ..that hasn’t happened..

                      ..same as that other anti-pot lie..

                      ..the schitzo-one..

                      ..same again..

                      ..schitzophrenic rates haven’t altered since before pot became prevalent..

                      ..they are the same now..as they were then..

                      ..and now that you know these facts..

                      ..i am sure you will no longer spread that false ‘4-5 times stronger’ misinformation again..

                      ..eh..?

                      ..phillip ure..

                    • fender …
                      28 February 2014 at 7:34 pm

                      LOL

                      Those “old hippies” won’t bother telling the doctor is was cannabis as opposed to tobacco.

                      ..”i am sure you will no longer spread that false ’4-5 times stronger’ misinformation again..”

                      Sure, once you provide the evidence. I’m sure you will understand that I won’t just take your word for it.

                    • phillip ure …
                      28 February 2014 at 11:02 pm

                      um..!..fender..you are the one making the 4-5 times stronger claim..

                      ..yr evidence for that plse..

                      ..first things first..eh..?

                      phillip ure..

                    • fender …
                      28 February 2014 at 11:49 pm

                      Did you miss the (?)

                      There are differing opinions from worse to not as damaging

                      And there’s significantly more damage

                  • Chooky …
                    1 March 2014 at 8:29 am

                    fender +100…it is quite evident that some of these so called doctors and their hangers- on are are on a power kick ( especially over compulsory vaccination for measles and other once normal child viruses)

                    …i just can not see that the roll- your- owns from tobacco plants at the bottom of the garden are more harmful than the factory-made cigarettes which have unknown addictive additives…. and of the known additives …some are very toxic indeed

                    ….makes one wonder if the multi-billion dollar tobacco industry which is now fighting for its life has not got to the ‘good ‘doctor ( this industry must after all find roll-your-own tobacco addicts, not buying commercially made cigarettes any more… a threat to profits)

                    …just the way the multi-billion dollar vaccination (and Tamiflu?) industry got to ‘good’ doctors…by giving them golden handouts for every child vaccinated ….and no statistical records kept of the side effects and long term effects ( even deaths) due to vaccination…those with anecdotal evidence are pooh poohed and made out to be dunces or nut jobs….( i am not speaking of ALL doctors here…many genuinely do care about their patients and treat their choices with respect…and some doctors genuinely can think for themselves and retain open and skeptical minds about the multi-billion dollar medical industry they are involved with )

                • McFlock …
                  28 February 2014 at 6:40 pm

                  Evidence also revealed there was a high rate of roll-your-own cigarette smokers in disadvantaged groups in many countries, there being higher usage among New Zealand Maori, black South Africans and smokers of lower socioeconomic status in Australia, the United Kingdom, the United States and Canada.

                  In New Zealand, roll-your-own smokers were more likely to have been diagnosed as having ”mental health, drug use and alcohol-related disorders and to have hazardous drinking patterns”, Prof Edwards said.

                  lol
                  So take the tobacco that disadvantaged groups use, just to shit on them a little bit more. Classy.

                  The one thing I wasn’t hugely impressed with at todays health meeting in Dunedin was Annette king announcing that the goal is 5% tobacco use by 2025. But then, smokers are used to being kicked, these days.

                  • phillip ure …
                    28 February 2014 at 7:15 pm

                    aww!!..no longer those heady days of being ‘cool’..like joe camel..eh..?

                    ..what happened to the joe camels..?..btw..

                    ..emphysema..all of them..(cough..!..cough..!…)

                    ..and seriously..of all drugs/intoxicants..don’t you get the most damage from..and the least kick from..

                    ..tobacco..?

                    ..it makes people smell so classy..too..

                    ..mmm!!…ashtray..!

                    ..and how about that first one of the morning..eh..?

                    ..with the accompanying big-phlegm cleanout..

                    ..tasty..!

                    ..such a class act..that ciggy-smoking..

                    ..and did king get you so upset..

                    ..that you had to go and have a ciggy..?..to calm down..?

                    ..furiously puffing there..outside..

                    ..phillip ure..

                    • fender …
                      28 February 2014 at 7:28 pm

                      shakes head

                      The “1:37pm” is the best advice for your loony tune…

                    • bad12 …
                      28 February 2014 at 7:49 pm

                      Lolz fender, just reading the erratic gibberish becomes tiresome after a few of ‘its’ comments let alone the wearying toil of answering what is mostly bullshit,

                      Phillis wouldn’t have a clue how many old Hippies have died of what, simply choosing to make it up as he goes along fired up by the remaining two working neurons in the cranial cavity…

                    • McFlock …
                      28 February 2014 at 7:55 pm

                      I don’t smoke heavily or regularly. Haven’t smoked since last night, no worries. Might not even smoke tonight, given the rain.

                      I wasn’t particularly agitated by king’s comment. It was simply the only thing at that meeting that I did not agree with. But like I say, we’re used to being kicked. No point in getting worked up about it now.

                      So your rant was actually a pretty good example of the propaganda people say to ostracise smokers and justify maltreatment, phil. To reciprocate, I might point out that, seeing as I bathed today, I’m probably significantly less smelly than you. Now kindly go hug a tree (but not a tobacco plant, because in my addictive haze I might set you on fire by accident – although the onset of hallucinations and mania would be a quick clue that I lit the wrong thing).

                  • bad12 …
                    28 February 2014 at 7:26 pm

                    Mac, wonder who the next target to get it in the neck in the blame game over the 69% of people who die yearly in this country of heart diseases and cancers out of total deaths will be,

                    i doubt even in 50 years time when the current demographic of smokers have all puffed on one for the last time that the stats are going to reflect the fact that smokers will only be 5% of the population,(not that i believe anything they say these days about tobacco use), so 69% of annual deaths will certainly need a new scapegoat…

                    • McFlock …
                      28 February 2014 at 7:44 pm

                      Obesity is the next priority.

                      Don’t get me wrong, I’m not even against modest excise taxes, and I’m certainly not against controls on advertising harmful products or having standards on how addictive they can be made or restricting consumption to adults, but everything in moderation – especially the controls.

                      Frankly, a society with no smoking, no caffeinated beverages, and all sugar, meat and alcohol consumption limited by law to recommended daily servings – well, that would be boring as fuck.

                      State the risk, cut the levels of individual consumption, fair enough. But life is for living.

                    • bad12 …
                      28 February 2014 at 7:56 pm

                      Yep pretty much the same here on the over the top punitive taxation, we are paying well over the odds for any cost we cause to the Government accounts,(well not me any more for obvious reasons),

                      And, repetitive i know, there need only have been a registering of all users with their doctors which would have allowed tobacco to be declared a restricted poison only available by prescription, smoking problem among the young solved and rates of smokers in the future dwindling to near zero…

                    • Chooky …
                      1 March 2014 at 9:25 am

                      @ McFlock …how do you know obesity is not cause by a metabolic syndrome associated with excessive vaccinations?

                    • McFlock …
                      1 March 2014 at 4:39 pm

                      @chooky

                      lol
                      I don’t. Have you got any evidence for that claim?

                  • Chooky …
                    1 March 2014 at 7:39 pm

                    @ McFlock: “Obesity is the next priority”…. …Q: “how do you know obesity is not caused by a metabolic syndrome associated with excessive vaccinations?”…[email protected]…lol…I don’t. Have you got any evidence for that claim?

                    Well here is some evidence after a very very brief search::

                    http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/vaccines-are-causing–the-epidemics-of-type-1-diabetes–obesity-and-type-2-diabetes-metabolic-syndrome-181513501.html

                    http://www.vaccines.net/newpage11.htm

                    http://www.whale.to/vaccines/diseases.html

                    http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread654829/pg1

                    • McFlock …
                      1 March 2014 at 7:49 pm

                      Seriously, do you ever consider the sources you use? Let alone the fact that two of those links refer to the same nutbar source, and none of them are verifiable in any way.

                    • northshoredoc …
                      2 March 2014 at 6:40 pm

                      That is not evidence.

                • Chooky …
                  28 February 2014 at 11:56 pm

                  …i know this is a late comment …but I really am sick of doctors and other ‘know- it- alls’ seeking to ban things and then insisting they have every right to tell you to vaccinate your children….

                  ….reminds me of the Catholic Church telling women how to run their lives …especially reproductive lives…

                  …i have no objections to people using roll ups or having a good fag if they want to …it is their life

                  one for McFlock….ciggie brain mate

                  http://www.samesame.com.au/forum/showthread.php?p=710876

                  • McFlock …
                    1 March 2014 at 12:18 am

                    I reckon that’s an interesting cross-section of issues.
                    There’s the public health efficacy issue – how much of a negative effect a health factor might have, and whether it would even be viewed as a negative effect in 30 years (we’ve butted heads on that re: measles, but BMI cod definitely go either way).

                    Then there’s the degree to which we should be able to endanger others and increase the burden we make on the public health system (although the tobacco tax addresses the latter, passive smoking is a factor for colleagues and cohabitants – but people in the street get not detectable effect from smoking, unlike general air pollution).

                    And even if the first two cross the threshold, there’s the failure to communicate that to some people and get active buy-in from the population, and health information fatigue in general.

                    PS: I generally keep a spare disposable lighter to lend to folk I don’t entirely trust, if I’m going to be smoking at a party or something 🙂

                  • KJT …
                    1 March 2014 at 7:42 am

                    “Know it alls”, that tell you to keep your kids at school until 16, unless you have a valid alternative education for them, that stop you from hitting your children, just because you feel like it, insist that you feed and cloth them, tell you that they have to be taken to a doctor when ill etc etc .

                    And, we want you to protect your kids, and other peoples, from unpleasant and difficult illness and the potentially debilitating, or fatal, side effects, using PROVEN safe and effective vaccines.

                    Terribly authoritarian of us. To expect parents to do the best for their kids, and not abuse them..

                    • marty mars …
                      1 March 2014 at 7:58 am

                      Forgive me if I’ve got it wrong but you provide light discipline(or whatever you want to call it) to your child don’t you – which some (including me) would argue is not necessary as it breaks the trust and so on but you have decided where the line is for you and your family based upon your beliefs and knowledge – but other parents in other areas don’t get that privilege or ability? They are abusing their kids but you are being a good parent?

                      School is a classic – all of the ‘shoulds’ like going at 5, ending at 16 are manmade constructs designed to support other aspects of society not actually based on helping the kids at all imo more related to creating a compliant workforce that does the bidding of the man to help him make more money. You are not doing the best for the kids by putting innocent lives in that meat grinder but we do it, why? Some person in a white coat says ‘jump’ and we say ‘how high sir’.

                      This is all a side issue to the vaccination issue but interrelated imo.

                    • marty mars …
                      1 March 2014 at 9:24 am

                      KJT – kia ora e hoa i might have come in a bit hard and personal on that comment above – arohamai. I’ve had a coffee now and calmed down…

                    • Chooky …
                      1 March 2014 at 9:34 am

                      @ marty mars…are you talking to me?….

                      “Forgive me if I’ve got it wrong but you provide light discipline(or whatever you want to call it) to your child don’t you – which some (including me) would argue is not necessary as it breaks the trust and so on but you have decided where the line is for you and your family based upon your beliefs and knowledge – but other parents in other areas don’t get that privilege or ability? They are abusing their kids but you are being a good parent?”

                      No i only spanked my kids once or twice in their lives and then with an open hand on a well clothed padded bottom…i felt guilty afterwards and knew it was counterproductive ….

                      however my generation was often spanked or got the wooden spoon or strap…(my mother only used the strap about twice and then my brother nailed my mothers strap to a telephione pole) or got chased with a big stick ( as in the case of the neighbours kids )…..but we were also given a hell of a lot of love and laughter …and we forgave our parents because we knew they were at the end of their tethers…and they felt guilty afterwards

                      ….a little more respect and tolerance for people/parents/kids ….a little less fascist judgement ….and a lot more love and care would go a long way

                      …the real child abusers in this society are often deep down abused children themselves…and an abusive society creates abusive parents

                    • marty mars …
                      1 March 2014 at 9:40 am

                      No chooky I was talking to KJT 🙂

                    • KJT …
                      1 March 2014 at 9:50 am

                      Yes, I did, Marty. Just like everyone else at the time, I thought it was the right thing to do. One of the many things as a parent I feel guilty about but cannot change. Don’t think that damaged my kids. The lack of time I had for them due to work and illness, did.

                      Now, I think the only reason you should smack a child is to prevent greater harm. Like the time when every other method of keeping a child away from the fireplace fails. Which is, mostly, the only reason we smacked our kids anyway, as it happened.
                      The same as I would restrain, slap or punch an adult, if it was necessary to keep them from running into a burning building.
                      Never felt right, as a method of discipline.
                      And the sadists who used the cane on us at school made me very anti that also. (Which is why I am comfortable with the law as enacted).

                  • phillip ure …
                    1 March 2014 at 8:14 am

                    it’s hard to find ‘a good fag’ these days…chooky..

                    ..and i live in the 3rd best city in the world..to live in..

                    ..(aren’t you all jealous..?..)

                    ..phillip ure..

                    • Chooky …
                      1 March 2014 at 8:41 am

                      @philip ….at least you are not a control freak…i do appreciate this and your humour

                      …yes there are fags and fags and gags and gags ….and fucking statistical know it alls ( lies , lies and damned statistics)….and those fascists who want to tell others what to do (especially woman on reproductive issues) and what to put in their bodies and …. how to bring up their children ( they should all fuck off imo)

                      …in the end people will do the right/healthful thing for themselves and their families if given care and support by the community and a good socialist caring government

                      ….why dont you grow some (fags) tobacco plants in the bottom of your garden like my brother does?…ooops …maybe you are not a tobacco smoker but your predilections are in other areas…that is ok too

                    • phillip ure …
                      1 March 2014 at 9:31 am

                      just waiting for legalisation..chooky..

                      ..then i will grow some green thumbs..

                      ..phillip ure..

      • RedBaronCV 7.3.2
        28 February 2014 at 7:58 pm

        Do the current chains use the RMA and other duopoly powers to prevent the opening of competitors?

    • veutoviper 7.4
      28 February 2014 at 12:24 pm

      I don’t usually read Comrade Boni, but your link led me to search out her earlier column floating the actual idea of a government/state-owned supermarket chain.

      http://www.nzherald.co.nz/dita-de-boni/news/article.cfm?a_id=611&objectid=11206513

      That article touches on a number of the comments/ideas expressed by people on this tread, and is well worth reading. Haven’t attempted to read the 180 comments the article sparked, however, before it was closed off!

      So, perhaps there are some free thinkers amongst the Herald columnists after all.

      • veutoviper 7.4.1
        28 February 2014 at 12:30 pm

        Fruther to my comment above, strictly as an aside, (or two asides) I decided to do one of my very rare visits to KB today – and surprise (not), we seem to have a commenter here who does what PG used to do. That is, comment here and then go over to KB and comment there on what is happening here. None other than srylands:
        OK time for today’s “The Standard Idea of the Day”. A Government owned supermarket. You couldn’t make this up.

        “Kiwimart could be a great way of focusing on Kiwi Goods and it could even be done inside the existing supermarkets. Imagine if there was a Kiwi Goods section in the supermarket, or Kiwi Goods shelves distributed amongst each Supermarket sector.
        ………..
        “It becomes a pointless ‘moan’ unless a Government is prepared to act and rolling out across the country a Supermarket chain capable of introducing a real level of competitive pricing among the big 2 currently operating in this country would provide to the average citizen ‘gains’ on a number of levels along with a profit making enterprise for the Governments coffers “

        I could not be bothered checking whether anyone responded to him, or whether he does this regularly – his first line suggests he might.

        But I did enjoy the KB responses there on today’s General Debate to PG’s outrage at Imperator Fish’s http://imperatorfish.com/2014/02/27/politics-explained-its-all-about-the-kids/. IF’s later post closing off the ability to comment there in future is also worth reading although it is a shame he has done this. http://imperatorfish.com/2014/02/28/no-comment/ It starts with “I have some terrible news for Pete George …”

      • phillip ure 7.4.2
        28 February 2014 at 12:36 pm

        @ veuto..

        ..dunno about ‘freethinkers’..

        ..the blsck-hearted cynics amongst us may see this as a strawman-argument..ultimately favouring the duopoly..

        ..’cos as an idea/solution..

        ..it is easy to laugh/scare out of the room..

        ..if only on cost-logistical-nightmare-grounds..

        ..so therefor..is no real solution..(with the subtext of retaining the status quo..)

        ..now..if de boni was arguing the merits of partial-nationalising the duopoly/taking 51% control..

        ..a solution that is cheap/do-able..

        ..then she could accept/deserve the free-thinker mantle..

        ..phillip ure..

  8. Tigger 8
    28 February 2014 at 9:55 am

    Mobile site won’t let me reply to Karol’s supermarket link. The end describes a co-op in Switzerland, of 2 million citizens. We already have buying co-ops in NZ, anyone game to lift this to something national? Hey, something for that taxpayers union? 🙂 They’re about people power, yes?

    • Skinny 8.1
      28 February 2014 at 11:03 am

      Like many I’m absolutely dog on the dominance of Corporates in this Country.

      With the overwhelming bitter taste of the Super Market duopoly operating in New Zealand perhaps it’s timely we collectively fight back with good old fashion ‘people power’.

      Maybe someone who knows how to contact workers warrior, fomer General Secretary of the National Dairy Workers Union, James Ritchie, who is working for the International Food Workers Union, based out of Geneva, Switzerland . He could probably give a very good critique of the supermarket cooperative your talking about.

      Maybe we could call on the CTU, with a power base of over 300,00 members to moot supporting a people’s supermarket cooperative in principal to start with. Coupled with other organistions such as Grey Power etc, would mean a powerful consumer bloc to start with. Getting the initial demand may even get ‘supply’ from a truly Left Government.

      Calling Helen Kelly for comment…come in Helen!

    • Draco T Bastard 8.2
      28 February 2014 at 2:47 pm

      What people seem to fail to realise is that the government doing anything is, as a matter of fact, the country operating as a cooperative. I think this is because, especially over the last three decades, we’ve been taught to think of the government as other, something that’s done to us rather than something we should be participating in.

    • phillip ure 9.1
      28 February 2014 at 10:32 am

      i am actually very nervous about this..

      ..it has so much potential to spin out of control..

      ..on a local-level ukraine is riddled with russian miliary-bases..

      ..and those uprising-citizens now controlling kiev are in the main neo-nazi/fascist groups funded/supported by america..

      ..and with half the county russian in origin..the other half pro-europe-intergration..

      ..there are so many local fuses..

      ..and on a geo-political level this is part on the ongoing cold war against russia..

      ..and part of the neo-con program of regime-change..over recent decades..

      ..and for putin..he either lies down and becomes americas’ ‘bitch’..as the american empire sits panting right on his doorstep..(anyone see that happening..?..)

      ..or he ‘fights’ back..

      ..it is for all these reasons i am very very nervous about this one..

      ..more so than over any other recent international ‘incident’..

      ..this one has the potential of/for an out of control..

      ..unravelling..

      phillip ure..

    • bad12 9.2
      28 February 2014 at 11:01 am

      Me thinks that should the divisions in Ukrainian society deepen into a real fight between anti-Russian and Pro-Russian factions which becomes bloody, Putin will not sit idly by and the Tanks will again roll across the Cossack Steppes,

      Its a bit further East than the norm for the usual river of blood that has soaked European soils down through the ages, but,the current situation has the ability the become a war involving all of Europe,

      The impoverishment of whole Nations caused by the Global Financial Crisis adds another necessary ingredient to the stew that would create an unnecessary war…

  10. phillip ure 10
    28 February 2014 at 10:36 am

    mod mod mod – mod mod-eration..

    phillip ure..

  11. bad12 11
    28 February 2014 at 10:36 am

    Listening to the head of NZ greyPower on RadioNZ Nine to Noon this morning i was struck with how badly we treat the aged, along with the children living in what is abject poverty,

    It would seem that poverty among the elderly is on the rise as a direct result of ‘Rents’ also being in a state of constant inflation especially in the cities,

    Auckland where the maximum payment of the Accomodation Supplement is said to be $220 a week has the highest growth of poverty among the aged as the game of Monopoly takes more and more of a pensioners entitlements every year and the Accommodation Supplement has been static at that $220 for the past 9 years,

    Bill English and Nick Smith have an answer to all this of course, sell off 20% of the Housing NZ estate to National Party voters and donors with a consistent track record, thus creating even more ‘candidates’ for the private sector rental market to plunder,

    This problem is going to grow as the Baby Boomer bulge gets to retirement age and i will not here go through the complex game of wealth transfer that occurs between the landlord class in this country and the foreign owned banking cartels, BUT, i will state quite bluntly that raising the amount of the Accommodation Supplement will help no-one in the long term simply intensifying that wealth transfer to the foreign owned banks,

    My view is that this whole unholy alliance that has been created between the middle class of New Zealand and the foreign owned banks need have a large spanner jammed in its works,

    The Government itself need involve itself in building factory built housing for the growing tide of young and old being impoverished by the rent demands of the middle class, with the profit motive removed such construction of factory assembled housing units which could be sited on serviced sites already owned by the State in clusters so as to make best use of such scarce land, would mean housing costs of well under 100,000 dollars per individual,

    A new Ministry of Works should be created to accomplish such a major and much needed build of State units suitable to house single and retired people thus freeing up what is left of the HousningNZ estate for those with children…

    • RedLogix 11.1
      28 February 2014 at 11:31 am

      i will not here go through the complex game of wealth transfer that occurs between the landlord class in this country and the foreign owned banking cartels

      As a landlord myself (how I dislike that word) – I could not agree more.

      Personally I would welcome exactly the solution you suggest – while the speculator class who just happen to be landlords would of course hate it.

      whole unholy alliance that has been created between the middle class of New Zealand and the foreign owned banks

      Which has arisen primarily because we needed to invest in something to support our retirement. The Super may well prevent abject poverty but it’s way short of being able to enjoy life and visit the grandkids.

      Stashing cash in the bank just gets you poor slowly.

      The sharemarket was just a way to get poor unexpectedly and suddenly.

      And the finance houses have been proven a way to get poor with certainty.

      That left housing as the only option. (And it’s way short of ideal as well.)

      So while it’s no doubt appealing to shove it to the middle-class with your spanner – you might want to consider what could be achieved with a carrot instead.

      • bad12 11.1.1
        28 February 2014 at 1:09 pm

        Red, i fully understand the rational decision of a masse of the middle class to invest in rental property,

        The NZ share-market vultures and thieves would make such an investment the only logical one when investment losses and gains are viewed through the lens of history,

        My banging on constantly about this masse investment in rentals by the middle class, 200,000 homes having made the transition from home to rental investment in 20 years should in no way be taken as a personal denigration of yourself or any other individual who has taken that rational decision,

        However, my belief that such investment is not contained within any particular political demographic, such investment is likely to have occurred across the political spectrum and my worry about such as far as the left goes is that personal imperatives may come to the fore when any party of the left makes decisions about the needed numbers of State Housing,

        Obviously there are a couple of juicy monetary considerations given out by successive Governments both left and right which further the desire for rental investments, the ability to deduct interest payments from personal taxation and the Accommodation Supplement payments to the tenants,(ending up a direct subsidy through the rental investor to the banking cartels),

        Given the nature of city rents i would suggest that everyone with a household income of less than 30 or 40,000 a year should be provided a State house and as i suggest above, that consideration is a growing one as the Baby Boomer bulge begins retirement en masse and the real need is to stop the abbhorent 20% sell-off of the current HousingNZ stock which will simply fuel demand in the rental sector and create even more house price and rental inflation,

        My proposal above is a simplification of what are complex issues along with my view that a rebuild of State Housing stocks should concentrate upon clusters aimed at the single or retired coupes demographic which would free up the larger houses,(whats going to be left of them),for low waged working families…

        • bad12 11.1.1.1
          28 February 2014 at 1:24 pm

          Red, a PS, i have deliberately not answered the inflammatory last little bit of your comment, but, its such an attitude in a nutshell that has 800,000 voters sitting on the sidelines looking at the Labour Party like it is a creature chock full of strangers from another planet,

          If i fully understand that comment it seems to suggest that as that investment property owning middle class has effective control of the Labour Party and also has the poor by the balls in light of the continued sell off of the States rental stocks by the National Party this middle class rental property owning demographic should be rewarded for letting go of the testicles of the poor…

      • Draco T Bastard 11.1.2
        28 February 2014 at 3:02 pm

        So while it’s no doubt appealing to shove it to the middle-class with your spanner – you might want to consider what could be achieved with a carrot instead.

        They’ve had the carrot for the last thirty years – the country is worse off because of it.

  12. Herodotus 12
    28 February 2014 at 10:42 am

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11211046
    Are not these the same group that has profited by quantitive easing ?
    As a result what ground gets wrongly demonised ??

    Damien Grant thinks tax fraudsters are more worthy than beneficiary fraudsters


    Who is the real enemy of the state ? Perhaps there is a real solution to how to fund govts.

  13. BM 13
    28 February 2014 at 11:57 am

    Shane’s doing a good job for the red team.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11211496

    On the down side it does rather make Cunliffe look like the wrong choice.

    • marty mars 13.1
      28 February 2014 at 12:21 pm

      Shane could be doing a winston – this could stir up a bit.

      Interesting in this report that

      The current draft plan has come under fire because some building projects would require iwi input, meaning Aucklanders might have to pay thousands of dollars in extra consent fees.

      There are more than 3,500 sites across Auckland which have been identified as being of cultural significance to Maori.

      That is forcing applicants to consult with up to 19 different iwi based as far away as Whangarei in the north and Paeroa in the south.

      Each individual iwi can request a site visit for which some are charging up to $2,500.

      They can also request a ‘Cultural Impact Assessment’ at a further cost of around $3,000.

      However, not all iwi are charging those fees and say they are disappointed some are.

      http://tvnz.co.nz/national-news/last-chance-aucklanders-have-say-draft-unitary-plan-5854098

      Is this just scare-mongering?

      • BM 13.1.1
        28 February 2014 at 12:33 pm

        I was going to write he seems to be channeling Peters.

        Do you think this is Jones working his own strategy , trying to position himself as the only choice for new Labour leader after this years election?

        • Danske 13.1.1.1
          28 February 2014 at 1:34 pm

          It is a plausible scenario: Jones taking over the leadership after Cunliffe’s electoral defeat. Fingers crossed it does not need to happen.

    • phillip ure 13.2
      28 February 2014 at 12:27 pm

      bm..you remind me of an idiot commenter @ kiwiblog called kiwiinamerica..

      ..over what seemed like forever..he beseiged the site with the reasons why hillary clinton wd beat obama for the nomination..

      ..and then all the reasons why mccain was going to beat obama..

      ..shine on.!…you crazy/denying diamond..!

      ..eh..?

      ..phillip ure..

  14. tricledrown 14
    28 February 2014 at 12:35 pm

    Brainless Moron is to busy being comfortly dumb.
    …eh .phil.
    Incest is a hard ACT to follow.Dickensian days are here again
    285,000 reasons not to vote Nactional.

  15. Saarbo 15
    28 February 2014 at 1:05 pm

    The attached article from the Fonterra website highlights Fonterra Australia MD Judith Swales calling for “more flexible work practices in Australia”

    Amazingly she wants to “make dairy faming more appealing”

    by

    “Ms Swales suggested a review around penalty rates for casual labour on dairy farms and greater access to 457 visas to help increase Australia’s milk supply”

    Basically the sub text of this article suggests that the reason NZ dairy farming is so strong is because we pay our workers such shit wages that dairy faming is profitable in New Zealand.

    https://www.fonterra.com/fencepost/wps/myportal/fp/!ut/p/b1/04_SjzQxMzI0M7M0MtGP0I_KSyzLTE8syczPS8wB8aPM4r0sHM2cnAwdDfzd_Q0MPE3D_F28HB2NDIJNgQoigQoMcABHA0L6_Tzyc1P1c6NyLAD11rPO/dl4/d5/L2dJQSEvUUt3QS80SmtFL1o2X0o4QTZCQjFBME9HTzAwSTVWT0RKQUEyT0k0/?WCM_GLOBAL_CONTEXT=/wps/wcm/myconnect/fencepost/fencepost/news/rural+news/fonterra+calls+for+workplace+flexibility

    That link looks messy..off the Fonterra website.

    • Murray Olsen 15.1
      1 March 2014 at 1:58 am

      Shit wages and compliant local and national governments that hand over all the water to them. Geographically, Aotearoa has fairly predictable water, and topsoil. Australia has this in a few places. I can’t see Fonterra capturing their regulatory bodies to the extent they would need to in order to make huge profits.

  16. McFlock 16
    28 February 2014 at 2:10 pm

    Excellent public meeting with Annette King, the dn mps and some panellists on healthcare in otago/southern dhb. Very well attended.

    What I found interesting was that the MPs were careful to address healthcare as part of a wider issue – inequality. Bodes well for the campaign.

    One of the more surprising comments was from the orthopaedic surgeon on the manel – he said he was glad he wasn’t operating today, because it was raining and he guaranteed that there would be buckets in the theatre to collect the drips from the ceiling. fucksake.

  17. Penny Bright 17
    28 February 2014 at 2:21 pm

    FYI

    To Solicitor-General: Graham McCready’s response to Proposed Defendant’s submissions:

    February 28, 2014

    From: Graham McCready

    Date: Fri, Feb 28, 2014 at 8:58 AM

    Subject: Application to Prosecute Len Brown – Response to Proposed Defendant’s submissions

    Please find attached the final submissions of the proposed private prosecutor on this issue.
    I ask these are taken into account before the decision is made today.

    Graham Mc Cready

    http://www.pennybright4mayor.org.nz/to-solicitor-general-graham-mccreadys-response-to-proposed-defendants-submissions/

    • bad12 17.1
      28 February 2014 at 2:30 pm

      Thanks for being unusually succinct Penny, i would love to see a brief of the proposed evidence that you lot intend to use to try and convict Len of anything,(spose that’s impossible tho sub judice and all that)…

      • ianmac 17.1.1
        28 February 2014 at 2:34 pm

        Yep bad 12. A weird puzzle for a non-Aucklander to figure just what the problem is.

        • bad12 17.1.1.1
          28 February 2014 at 4:26 pm

          Indeed ianmac, if that lot manged to get rid of Len i wonder what they think will replace Him, perhaps Penny as an also ran in that Mayoralty election has dreams that Brown’s removal would result in Her ascendency and like you i cannot fathom their hitching of the rid Auckland of Len campaign they are waging to that of the ‘wing-nuts’ as well as the wide gap between allegations and evidence they as yet have not publicly addressed,

          i should imagine that if as i expect the Crown prosecutor refuses to prosecute through lack of evidence the cry of bias will ring loud and share market registers will be minutely examined to try and attach the prosecutor to Sky city,

  18. Penny Bright 18
    28 February 2014 at 2:46 pm

    Yes – ‘us lot’ who managed to get John Banks committed to trial for electoral fraud weren’t supposed to succeed on that front either ………

    Have you bothered to check out yet those who REALLY run the Auckland region?

    http://www.committeeforauckland.co.nz membership

    Try joining up a few dots …………………

    Not hard – once you get over the ‘willful blindness’ affliction, and ‘follow the dollar’?

    Kind regards,

    Penny Bright

    http://www.dodgyjohnhasgone.com

    • bad12 18.1
      28 February 2014 at 4:38 pm

      Is that right Penny, by us lot you might have to include me as it was i who paid Graham Mac’s phone arrears which i sure as hell wouldn’t have had i believed Banks had no case to answer,

      The continued attack on Brown tho looks to me to be a complete waste of the courts time, of course you may have ‘the smoking gun’ in the form of direct oral evidence from high up managers of one or more of the hotels involved who is willing to give evidence that the free rooms and upgrades were given to Len on the basis of payments for favors past or future and that both the hotels and Len Brown knew this,(if you have i will have to make a contrite mea culpa but don’t see that happening),

      Without the above Penny you have nothing with which to convict Brown of anything and this whole escapade simply becomes a sideshow,

      In the unlikely event that you managed to unseat Len i would be interested in what you see His replacement would behave like, you might think Brown ‘the evil Mayor’, just wait until one of the ‘wing-nuts’ takes the chair that will make Brown look like a choir-boy…

      • karol 18.1.1
        28 February 2014 at 5:41 pm

        Well, I heard on RNZ Checkpoint in the last hour that McCready’s attempt to sue Brown has been rejected – evidence does not meet the bar needed for prosecution to begin.

        • bad12 18.1.1.1
          28 February 2014 at 7:39 pm

          i will have to resist the urge to GLOAT, loz excuse that little outburst, so Penny, perhaps now you can feel free to release a draft of your ‘actual’ evidence,

          i read the PDF attached to your earlier comment from Graham Mac to the Crown prosecutor and sad to say the only evidence it contained was the usual ”i thunk it therefor it is allegations”,

          Do neither of you two understand the difference between Brown and Banks cases, in the Banks case there were two witnesses prepared to stand in the witness box and say what was ‘thunk’ actually occurred, in the Brown case there were how many witnesses???…

  19. vto 19
    28 February 2014 at 3:14 pm

    I love the Christchurch street art…

    … spectacular, moving, passionate, provocative, powerful…

    check it

  20. floyd 20
    28 February 2014 at 4:26 pm

    I found it deeply ironical and disturbing to see that key handed the award of New Zealander of the Year to Dr Lance O’Sullivan. This is the man(key) who has overseen the breakdown of our democratic society and created absolute poverty and deprivation to thousands of our citizens and then denied it’s existence. Dr O’Sullivan is the man picking up the pieces in the worst off areas in the North and helping put these people back together, with the help of donations from many people who don’t have much themselves but have heart and soul.
    key was on natrad this morning explaining in suitably modest tones that he is our MOST POPULAR PM EVER because he is just an ordinary kiwi BLOKE and that what you see is what you get and PEOPLE LIKE THAT IN HIM Sorry for shouting, but wouldn’t be fit to clean Dr O’Sullivan’s shoes.
    Expecting his next appearance in gumboots,farmer hat and black singlet. I still cannot believe that he is our pm. We deserve much,much better.
    Will be donating to Dr O’Sullivan to help in his fight to give his patients the treatment and assistance that they deserve,

  21. Draco T Bastard 21
    28 February 2014 at 5:01 pm

    The free capitalist market doing what it was designed to do:

    “Gone are the days of staff positions,” says Daniel Lay, a visual effects animator who runs the influential VFX Soldier blog that tracks industry trends. “If you aren’t on a project at the company you work for, you were laid off. Smaller companies have transitioned to offering no benefits and employee misclassification.”

    This has been a boon to the six major studios that the MPAA represents. According to the Hollywood Reporter, those giants “combined to generate more than $4.3 billion in operating profit in 2013, up 23 percent from $3.5 billion in 2012.”

    Lower wages and job insecurity for the many and higher profits for the few.

    Although, if that article is correct, we can kiss our movie industry goodbye. Just another fuckup by Labour and National.

    • bad12 21.1
      28 February 2014 at 5:12 pm

      It will be an interesting watch when Bizz begins to import that scenario into the New Zealand economic equation and apply it across the middle class,

      Slippery the Prime Minister’s ‘brighter future’ payed for off of the back of the ransacking of the tax base and 80 billion bucks gross of Government debt will quickly take on all the dimensions of a bad nightmare for those who have been kept in comfort while the bottom third goes backward at speed…

  22. Huginn 22
    28 February 2014 at 5:27 pm

    The bankers have started giving themselves obscene bonuses – again. They are impervious to embarrassment. They cannot be shamed. So, what to do?

    Demanding greater transparency about their fee structure, it turns out.

    Brent Sheather has written an excellent column (I found it hidden in the Herald’s Business section) which shows how bankers use complicated, layered, fee structures to siphon money out of investment accounts. It’s a pyramid scheme, and of course this is where the bonus money is coming from.

    His conclusion is that ‘ . . . NZ regulators still have an awful lot of work to do before the FMA’s vision of “promoting fair, efficient and transparent financial markets that restore and inspire investor confidence” becomes a reality in NZ.’

    Brent Sheather: When layers of fees stack up

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/personal-finance/news/article.cfm?c_id=12&objectid=11209687

    • Tim 22.1
      28 February 2014 at 5:40 pm

      “The bankers have started giving themselves obscene bonuses – again. They are impervious to embarrassment. They cannot be shamed. So, what to do?”
      The French had an idea – they called it the guillotine. Whilst it might take a while – perhaps not even happen, but if it does Huginn, please don’t feel guilty if and when you’re unable to feel pity (which is what they’re desperately asking for)

      • Huginn 22.1.1
        28 February 2014 at 10:25 pm

        Tim

        I read and occasionally post to The Standard because I believe in the political process
        I’m not interested in violence or talk of violence

  23. bad12 23
    28 February 2014 at 7:30 pm

    Rosie, Rosie, your wish has been granted, you said it and hey presto weekend-social is back…

  24. captain hook 24
    28 February 2014 at 7:58 pm

    Who does john key think he is. He is headhunted by boag and co with no known interest in anything except stealing other peoples money and now he presumes to change the New Zealand flag all on his ownsome because he doesn’t like it. to answer the question he is nothing but a parvenu manque carpetbagger with a big head.
    and he is about to get flagged himself.

  25. xtasy 25
    28 February 2014 at 9:12 pm

    I do NOT know, whether anybody has posted this here, but Bryce Edwards posted a few links in his last summary opinion comment on the Herald, which is highly interesting. He offered a link to TVNZ, and a 22 minute long video, showing a background report on MATT MCCARTEN, who is, as we know, the new Chief of Staff in David Cunliffe’s office!

    I am totally mystified, why they do at TVNZ not broadcast such personal history profiles and documentaries, instead of all those crap cooking and supposed “talent” shows, but here it is, MEET MATT MCCARTEN:

    http://tvnz.co.nz/nz-story/s1-ep16-video-5799995

    So all who do not know the man, especially the younger ones, you can here get an excellent intro to Matt and his life!

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11211561

    It seems there is much good stuff on TVNZ’s archives, that we never see and hear about, until they may feel “safe” enough to share it. Why is this? Is it because the government and the minister may not approve of it?

    It is time to tell more real stories about REAL New Zealanders, not just “shoeshine turn to speculative adventure gold kind” of glory boy Key and that lot, thanks!

    • xtasy 25.1
      28 February 2014 at 9:22 pm

      They seem to have broadcast this in late January, but I did not see it, so who else did?

      • idlegus 25.1.1
        28 February 2014 at 10:09 pm

        i did, was on a staurday at about 7:30 (from memory). was a great doco, & i couldn’t believe what i was watching, something sympathetic to the left, mccarten is a legend & a fighter. i’m a mana supporter, but am watching the cunliffe led labour with a lot of interest.

        • xtasy 25.1.1.1
          28 February 2014 at 10:25 pm

          Thanks, we need more of this, and it is a shame that we only get the odd good, “real” program, that is in the MSM, and that is “informative” not just on biographies of persons and history, but that tell us what really goes on in NZ and the wider world.

          That is why I DEMAND we get a restored TRUE public broadcasting body , that is funded securely, is robust, independent and informs and educates, which is something NZ has not seen since the mid to late 1990s, when TV was globally privatised and was sold out, same as much of most media here.

          And the people can make the difference, if they only want, but sadly, most are so brainwashed and constantly inundated with commercial advertising and stupid programs, they all just “value” every little think on a “beneficial level scale” like, is this going to feed me, satisfy my thirst, get me a kick here or there, does it solve my immediate bill problem or else, and if it does not, they dismiss it as “unimportant”.

          Sad but true, most people are their own worst enemies.

  26. xtasy 26
    28 February 2014 at 10:39 pm

    Meet and learn more about Matt, in all honesty, it cannot harm, and it may just offer more insight and respect:

    http://metromag.co.nz/metro-archive/matt-mccarten-better-red-than-dead/

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