Open Mike 28/09/2017

124 comments on “Open Mike 28/09/2017”

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1. Ed 1

   28 September 2017 at 6:15 am

   NZ Labour should listen to this.
   • Ed 1.1

     28 September 2017 at 6:20 am

     Some key points.

     1. Labour to to take utilities back into public ownership and change the way the economy runs.
     2. The public sector pay cap must end.
     3. A Labour government will bring in rent controls and ensure tenants are rehoused locally when estates are regenerated.
     4. Labour wants more workplace democracy.
     5. Corbyn attacks the traditional media and its tax exile owners who “trash Labour at every turn”, especially the Daily Mail.
     6. Tuition fees would be abolished for both university and further education students.
     7. Businesses will have to pay a bit more tax.
     • Ed 1.1.1

       28 September 2017 at 6:20 am

       The speech in 4 minutes.
       • Ed 1.1.1.1

         28 September 2017 at 6:22 am

         The bit where he attacks the Daily Mail.
         • Adrian Thornton 1.1.1.1.1

           28 September 2017 at 9:11 am

           I thought this speech from the UK Labour conference was also something that would sound like beautiful music coming from NZ Labour, but I guess with old third way crusaders like Robinson, Clarke and Mike Williams being the ideological back bone of NZ Labour now…all we will hear is the unpleasant sounds of NZ Labour digging further into it’s own grave….

           Paul Mason ‘We Will Change the World’ Labour Party Conference
     • cleangreen 1.1.2

       28 September 2017 at 7:11 am

       Ed, this is similar to Winstons policy to take back utilities companies again along with any ‘errant manufacturing companies that get public taxpyer bailouts and then leave NZ’ and we have several of those dont we just.

       All around Corbyn is a hero I see there and a new dawn to take back our countries from the ‘rogue elites’ ( we call carpetbaggers invited here by John Key & mow accomodated by Bill English.)

       Hopefully we will get a Labour/NZ First/Greens coalition to save our country.
     • SpaceMonkey 1.1.3

       28 September 2017 at 8:52 am

       An excellent platform for a Labour-NZ First-Greens coalition for the next 3 years. Each of those points has been championed by one of these three parties at some stage… except no.2… but pretty sure Green and NZ First would support it.
     • Kevin 1.1.4

       28 September 2017 at 10:27 am

       And property developers must ‘use it or lose it’ when it comes to land banking.
     • tracey 1.1.5

       28 September 2017 at 10:57 am

       That south islanders pay 30+ cents a litre more than north Islanders, and the BPs and Caltexes say it is NOT to do with transport, means it is

       a. greed
       b. informal price fixing
       • KJT 1.1.5.1

         28 September 2017 at 5:58 pm

         I have a pretty good idea of the relative transport costs.
         It is fractions! of a cent per litre.
   • feels surreal 1.2

     28 September 2017 at 9:51 am

     If anyone has trouble hearing JC, this RT link has much better sound and you get the intro.
     
     • feels surreal 1.2.1

       28 September 2017 at 8:12 pm

       Take it back. Sound is shit after 50 or so mins.
2. Ed 2

   28 September 2017 at 6:36 am

   This is what neo-liberalism looks like #1

   Leaky homes: ‘If you can’t afford to pay for it, then tough luck’

   The son of one elderly Auckland owner said authorities needed to urgently step in because open-ended repair bills put all the risk on the owners.
   “There is no protection. It will cost what it will cost and if you can’t afford to pay for it, then tough luck,” Iain Swan said.
   His 86-year-old father has moved out of his leaky Bay Palms apartment in Browns Bay, on the North Shore, but Mr Swan said payment demands from the body corporate remained.
   “Under the Unit Titles Act the body corp committee are quite able to forcibly sell your apartment.”

   http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/339867/leaky-homes-if-you-can-t-afford-to-pay-for-it-then-tough-luck
   • tracey 2.1

     28 September 2017 at 11:03 am

     I wonder who the son has been voting for the last 20 years? I worked in the leaky home area and it became a gravy train for so-called building experts and lawyers. The Council (Auckland in particular) got so fixated on its own liability it has forced many properties into full reclad when Building Code repairs were possible.

     Building experts cream money for being a project manager of a rebuild. On a multi-unit, we are talking no change from 50k and often far higher.

     WHY would they recommend repairs? Why would they fight for repairs?

     Many Body Corps run by professional Body Corps have been treated negligently but suing your Body Corp is the same as suing yourself.

     IF National wanted to deal with this for future generations (and that would include Christchurch rebuild) they would have made developers personally liable, along with Designers and Builders. The Cowboys would have disappeared and the good ones would dominate. Instead

     Developer starts a company – does build – removes profits – shuts down company – = escapes any legal liability for wrongdoing.

     Sadly too many people dismiss such issues until it happens to them (or their loved one).
     • Draco T Bastard 2.1.1

       28 September 2017 at 12:26 pm

       Developer starts a company – does build – removes profits – shuts down company – = escapes any legal liability for wrongdoing.

       And it’s not just developers who do that.

       IIRC, there was a tech shop a few years ago who got into trouble for not paying his employees enough. Went to court, was found guilty and ordered to pay. Next day the business was shut down and a new one in its place owned by the same person and selling the same stuff. The liability disappeared overnight as the business that had been charged no longer existed.

       When shit like this can happen then the law needs to change to hold the people that own the business liable. After all, it’s not the business that’s breaking the law as that’s an inanimate object. It’s the people that own it.
     • KJT 2.1.2

       28 September 2017 at 6:01 pm

       Unfortunately it is the cladding manufacturers and the academics who advised Branz, as much as the developers. So far they have escaped any liability.
       • tracey 2.1.2.1

         28 September 2017 at 6:11 pm

         I agree on both counts but developers decided to buy the cheap mediterranean suited cladding.

         Note how quickly BRANZ was changed into a company jyst in time to escape liability. I have seen documentation which shows BRANZ never tested Harditex before put their mark on it they just accepted JH testing… which it turns out they didnt do
3. Ed 3

   28 September 2017 at 6:38 am

   This is what neo-liberalism looks like #2

   Acceptance of inequality at heart of CEO pay – researcher

   ‘Chief executives are paid more in societies that are more tolerant of inequality, a researcher says.
   Researcher Max Rashbrooke specialises in salary trends.
   He told Morning Report research showed that New Zealand chief executives received large salaries whether their companies did well or not.
   “They’ve kind of got a bit of a bet each way.”
   Mr Rashbrooke said chief executives earned far more than their predecessors a generation ago but there was no evidence they were more effective.
   “They are paid more because they’re in a society that’s much more tolerant of inequality.
   “Whereas conversely, if you look at a country like Japan where you have people running huge multinational companies, most Japanese chief executives would be paid less than $1m New Zealand.
   “Because in Japan it’s still, to a large extent, culturally unacceptable to have those very large salaries which people don’t regard as deserved.”‘

   http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/business/340243/acceptance-of-inequality-at-heart-of-ceo-pay-researcher
   http://www.radionz.co.nz/audio/player?audio_id=201859949
   • The Chairman 3.1

     28 September 2017 at 11:54 am

     How does Fonterra boss’ $8.3m pay packet stack up to other professions?

     Select a card to flip it over and find out.

     https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/97314609/comparing-fonterra-boss-theo-spierings-83m-pay-packet

     “Acceptance of inequality at heart of CEO pay”

     The silence on the matter from some political parties is enlightening.
4. Ed 4

   28 September 2017 at 6:43 am

   This is what neo-liberalism looks like #3

   Poverty, illness and living on less than the minimum wage.

   ‘The last time there was fresh produce on the table was more than two years ago.
   After covering her basic expenses, Lynlie Beazley survives on just $22 per week and sometimes she sleeps on an empty stomach. The west Auckland resident described herself as the “face of poverty” in the country. “I don’t know how I live each day.”

   Beazley said she would not be able to survive without food parcels from The Salvation Army. She is one of a growing number of people knocking on the charity’s door for help. Her weekly benefit was about $236, but she only had $22 after rent, expenses, and hire purchase payments. Beazley, a Housing NZ tenant, said this was enough for two bottles of milk, three loaves of bread and a tray of eggs.

   Salvation Army welfare national Practice Manager Jono Bell said they helped 10,555 individuals and families around the country with food parcels between April and June – an 8 per cent increase on the same period last year
   “For many people we see food parcels are a temporary measure to help them out in a crisis, such as losing their job, but we do have a number of clients who rely on food parcels for survival, because their income is not enough to meet their needs.
   “The rising cost of food on top of the increasing rents we’ve seen in the past few years have been a major factor in this.” ….’

   https://www.stuff.co.nz/auckland/local-news/western-leader/96992301
   • Gareth Wilson 4.1

     28 September 2017 at 9:19 am

     Beazley was convicted of aggravated robbery, and she’s been evicted for doing $1000 of damage to her house.
     • alwyn 4.1.1

       28 September 2017 at 9:59 am

       Don’t be so mean.
       Bringing facts into the debate is totally unfair.
       That is like asking Metira to tell the truth about the amount of support she got from her child’s fathers family.
       Why doesn’t RNZ release the material they received about that? They have no problem with releasing anything provided to them if it denigrates a National MP’s character.
       • adam 4.1.1.1

         28 September 2017 at 11:07 am

         Wow alwyn, not enough to destroy someones political career, you want to put the boot into their family as well.

         But what is even stranger no matter how far down the gutter a natioanl mp goes you will support them.

         You have no morals, where should I send the white sheets?
       • tracey 4.1.1.2

         28 September 2017 at 12:02 pm

         Or Bill lying about a hole or imaginary taxes or using lawyers/accountants to take another 900 a week for living in Dipton, when he didn’t
       • marty mars 4.1.1.3

         28 September 2017 at 4:04 pm

         Stinking bully you are alwyn and a liar lover too.
     • McFlock 4.1.2

       28 September 2017 at 1:23 pm

       neither of which mean she should have to rely on private charity to live, so… fuck you, arsehole.
       • alwyn 4.1.2.1

         28 September 2017 at 2:01 pm

         Of course she shouldn’t.
         On the other hand I do think she should have fulfilled her obligations to the taxpayer and done such minor little things as naming the father.
         She should also, when she justified her fraud, have told the truth about her situation instead of leaving the impression that the father had basically abandoned her and left her, and her daughter to go hungry.
         She also had an obligation, at least in my view, to have looked for a part time job instead of spending her time running for Parliament on the ticket of idiot parties. It is called “taking responsibility” and even toward the end she never seemed to have grown up enough to do that.
         • McFlock 4.1.2.1.1

           28 September 2017 at 2:23 pm

           Was it your obsession with Turei that makes you think I replied to you, or merely your ego? Both seem to be unhealthy.

           [edit: what the hell – fuck you, too]
           • alwyn 4.1.2.1.1.1

             28 September 2017 at 2:47 pm

             I do apologise. The numbers on the indents don’t show up very clearly and I did think I was one of the two people you were referring to.
             I can assure you I have no obsession with Turei. I dislike in equal measure all corrupt politicians.

             On the other hand, having read your last sentence I withdraw the words of apology. The rest stands though.
             • McFlock …

               28 September 2017 at 3:41 pm

               Dislikes corrupt politicians. Supports national. ’nuff said.
               • tracey …

                 28 September 2017 at 4:09 pm

                 Yup. Rewards those who show no personal responsibility or accountability for their lawbreaking (from positions of power) but preaches personal responsibility and accountability for others
             • KJT …

               28 September 2017 at 6:05 pm

               In other words you are a self righteous, bigoted judgemental twit.

               You have no idea what you would do in the same situation. I suspect, like Turei, Bennett and everyone else, you do what you have to do to survive.
         • tracey 4.1.2.1.2

           28 September 2017 at 2:28 pm

           There you go again, judging her for not being honest, but votiing for National.
         • Patricia 4.1.2.1.3

           28 September 2017 at 7:31 pm

           Alwyn, just maybe the father did not want to be named ? If fathers are not married to the mothers of their children then they have to specifically front up to the registry office and sign on the dotted line. Many men won’t take that final step. Mother can name the father to WINZ but without the signature the mother is deemed to have “not named the father”.
     • Andrea 4.1.3

       28 September 2017 at 2:53 pm

       Ms Beazley has been to prison and has completed her sentence.

       Also to the point – in the article I read she has been searching for work. She clearly wasn’t coached as to the sheer amount of effort it would take to pick up an entry level job.

       It’s silly in the extreme to expect someone from a hard background, with prison sentences, to know how to operate in the mainstream.

       Why aren’t ex-prisoners being set up with work when they leave prison? And a mentor-buddy to help them past the rocky parts?

       Or do we choose to keep on punishing them?

       I didn’t see the piece on ‘$1000 of damage’. I have no idea whether it was accidental or deliberate. I do know that the amount she has to cover her overheads and living costs is far too low.

       Remember – she’s done her time. Don’t let the punishment continue.
       • Incognito 4.1.3.1

         28 September 2017 at 10:14 pm

         Well said!

         But the demonising and stigmatising (can these be used together, I wonder) must go on. You know, once a thief, always a thief. This applies to Beazley, Turei, as well as to Bill English. How on Earth can these be ‘fundamentally decent’ people once they’ve erred in their ways, I ask you … Let those we have never committed sin stand tall be counted and they shall be knighted for their good deeds and unblemished record. Yeah, nah!
5. Andre 5

   28 September 2017 at 6:55 am

   Heh. National ripping off “Lose Yourself” just took on another level of irony. Allegedly it’s a favourite song for psychopaths.

   http://www.nzherald.co.nz/entertainment/news/article.cfm?c_id=1501119&objectid=11927110
   • Psycho Milt 5.1

     28 September 2017 at 2:07 pm

     I guess they figured “Sociopaths, psychopaths, near enough.”
6. JustPassingThrough 6

   28 September 2017 at 7:54 am

   http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11926756

   “The Electoral Commission is looking into a social media post on election day by former broadcaster Sean Plunket that used a play on words to endorse the political party he worked for.

   The commission confirmed it has received complaints about the tweet, which read: “Hope everyone remembers to put a top on before going out to vote, when it’s cold, two tops.”

   I hope the complaint is upheld. I noticed a bit of this sort of thing going on on election day at Kiwiblog but it’s a whole new level when someone (formerly) in the media is doing it.
   • Wainwright 6.1

     28 September 2017 at 9:32 am

     God he must think he’s so clever. Like Whaleoil with his name suppression breaches.
   • North 6.2

     28 September 2017 at 5:24 pm

     So in other words Alwyn…….you just don’t give a fuck about people being bone poor in New Zealand. That disregard necessarily includes bone poor children. To the contrary you militate for a small proportion of the population to earn, and enhance their earnings way, way, way beyond need. There seems to be no other conclusion.

     You are therefore one of those self-perceived ‘fine’, repugnant, subversive extremists worthy of nothing less than contempt. In my more than 4 decades of active engagement with NZ criminal law I am yet to find the penalty of starvation prescribed in any New Zealand criminal legislation. A word to the ignorant…….it is extremely dishonest to muddy the waters by invoking a conviction without at the same time providing full detail of the circumstances of the offending. The offence of aggravated robbery covers a wide range of unlawful behaviour. Not that that would worry a darkly ignorant blowhard.

     Even if this woman’s offence fell at the very serious end of the scale of such offending, where imprisonment is more or less mandatory, starvation was never part of that sentence. Or are you saying that if one has a serious conviction you’ll not be left to starve while serving your prison sentence but that’s all good once you’re released ? Karma will take you Alwyn.
7. Frida 7

   28 September 2017 at 8:05 am

   Did anyone else hear the item on Morning Report (I just heard it on the 7 am news) where there was some discussion talked about in which Tuariki John Delamere is said to have stated that “if Jacinda offers Winston the shared PM” she will probably get a deal – there was then some suggestion that “Bill wouldn’t and shouldn’t”.
   Maybe I’m just being sensitive before my morning coffee, but it reeked sexism to me.
   • SpaceMonkey 7.1

     28 September 2017 at 8:44 am

     I heard it but I didn’t hear it as sexist… I heard it as Jacinda having less of an ego than Bill, making such an arrangement possible. Given that time is on Jacinda’s side and not on Winnie’s… why not make that offer? They could do 18 months each.

     Ha! Hell… why not throw in James as well and they can have 12 months each… 🙂
     • Frida 7.1.1

       28 September 2017 at 8:52 am

       @SpaceMonkey – ok, must have been the lack of coffee then 😉
       I just hope it’s the lack of ego factor driving people to make such comments, rather than any insinuation about her gender, age or relative lack of experience – those things push my sensitive wee buttons!!

       A turn each would definitely be egalitarian 🙂
   • Cinny 7.2

     28 September 2017 at 8:51 am

     Sounds like a bitter member of the old boys club grasping at straws and living in the dark ages.

     A bit like all the speculation that is rife in the media again today.

     Bitter ex MP’s facing irrelevance like Dunne giving his opinion and speculations while preparing his CV after withdrawing from the election due to a lack of popularity that was waging a war against his ego.
     • Frida 7.2.1

       28 September 2017 at 8:53 am

       @Cinny – +1 – Dunne should just go back into his box…..! The ego of that man knows no bounds.
       • Cinny 7.2.1.1

         28 September 2017 at 9:08 am

         Hey there Frida 😀 I’m finding it super amusing, how media are asking opinions of all these people, because their opinions will have absolutely no bearing on any decision making.

         Winston click bait for the masses, it’s sooooo funny.
         • Frida 7.2.1.1.1

           28 September 2017 at 9:15 am

           @Cinny – agreed! I am enjoying that aspect of it too
   • Tricledrown 7.3

     28 September 2017 at 9:05 am

     Tualeki the two faced .
     Former National/NZfirst MP.
     Traitorous meddler.
     Bill English is finished washed up if he doesn’t get over the line.
     Now at least that’s up the anti how trustable are National in holding their coalition deal given this Rant from the Tuafaced Delamare.
8. Eco maori 8

   28 September 2017 at 8:42 am

   NOne of my favorite programs on TV IS Gold Rush Its a good program that shows that the small guy can win and beat big money with a bit of learning and some good intelligence . I remember one day and Mitch Parkers mechanic had a water leak in one of
   There machine and Mitch said that a tip that Jean Cheesman was to have heaps of black pepper and they put that in the radiatior and it stops the water leaks so six months ago when I found that my radiator cap had been loosened and had a slight crack in the head I remember that episode and poured black pepper into my trucks cooling system and what do you no it works so DON’T by any of that shit they sell in the shop just put black pepper in your cooling system and top the water up if you are losing water and you will be able to get home it was a temporary fix
   That gave me six months .Now the grass is growing and my other job has started well I will be able to pay my loan off piece o piss and also the big picture is were are the small COUNTRY so don’t go shooting our own foot off and attacking fonterra One old say if I like is if it ain’t broke DON’T fix it yes there need to be some environment issues sorted but fonterra business structures are fine.
   • McFlock 8.1

     28 September 2017 at 1:26 pm

     ground pepper or peppercorns?
     I suppose ground pepper would do it, drifting into the cracks. As long as the pipes in the system don’t block…
   • ianmac 8.2

     28 September 2017 at 7:33 pm

     “…poured black pepper into my trucks cooling system and what do you no it works so DON’T by any of that shit they sell in the shop.”
     Would get us home as long as we had black pepper on board. Great ide Eco maori.
9. Eco maori 9

   28 September 2017 at 9:05 am

   Don’t you get it our largest trading nation has a controlled economy and they can fuck WITH our exports at the drop of a hat By the way someone direct credit $30 into my bank account and reference it with KEEP GROWING IN TAURANGA.
   Now that can be interpreted in many ways so DON’T DO that because it’s not helping me.
10. Tricledrown 10

    28 September 2017 at 9:10 am

    Eco Maori Fonterra is a monopoly it needs fixing .
    Rod Oram has way more knowledge than your bandaide fixes.
    Poor comparison.
11. Molly 11

    28 September 2017 at 9:22 am

    A good article on Films for Action, How Swedes and Norwegians broke the power of the 1%.

    Sweden and Norway, for example, both experienced a major power shift in the 1930s after prolonged nonviolent struggle. They “fired” the top 1 percent of people who set the direction for society and created the basis for something different.

    Both countries had a history of horrendous poverty. When the 1 percent was in charge, hundreds of thousands of people emigrated to avoid starvation. Under the leadership of the working class, however, both countries built robust and successful economies that nearly eliminated poverty, expanded free university education, abolished slums, provided excellent health care available to all as a matter of right and created a system of full employment. Unlike the Norwegians, the Swedes didn’t find oil, but that didn’t stop them from building what the latest CIA World Factbook calls “an enviable standard of living.”
    • tracey 11.1

      28 September 2017 at 11:58 am

      Wow
12. Brigid 12

    28 September 2017 at 9:40 am

    Meanwhile the investigation continues…

    Steven Joyce to Bill English
    RE: Finding the leaker for Winston#nzpol #satire https://t.co/zDGx7i2GTw pic.twitter.com/AwIGBWCdTJ

    — Beehive Letters (@BeehiveLetters) September 27, 2017
    • tracey 12.1

      28 September 2017 at 12:06 pm

      chuckling
    • ianmac 12.2

      28 September 2017 at 7:36 pm

      Yeh and many a true word spoken in jest.
13. Stephen Doyle 13

    28 September 2017 at 11:50 am

    I know schadenfreude is not a particularly noble emotion. But should Winston go with a progressive government, the shit fight within the National Party will be a joy to behold.
14. The Chairman 14

    28 September 2017 at 12:01 pm

    “Labour has not joined Peters’ call for an inquiry and has remained silent on the Yang story.”

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/97325576/winston-peters-wont-let-yang-allegations-slide

    Why is that?
    • tracey 14.1

      28 September 2017 at 12:03 pm

      Because they were in Government when he got his citizenship. It’s not a secret Chairman. But National, they are the ones who elevated him to parliamentarian.
      • The Chairman 14.1.1

        28 September 2017 at 12:13 pm

        Which raises questions in itself.

        Moreover, do you believe its got nothing to do with questions surrounding a couple in their own camp?
        • tracey 14.1.1.1

          28 September 2017 at 12:21 pm

          So, you read an article yesterday and this is your stick de jour.

          What do you mean by

          “do you believe its got nothing to do with questions surrounding a couple in their own camp?”
          • The Chairman 14.1.1.1.1

            28 September 2017 at 12:30 pm

            Really, Tracey?

            Head in the sand much?

            https://www.newsroom.co.nz/2017/09/18/48616/expert-calls-for-inquiry-into-chinese-threat
            • tracey 14.1.1.1.1.1

              28 September 2017 at 12:33 pm

              Really Chairman? Cannot answer my simple question seeking clarification?
              • The Chairman …

                28 September 2017 at 1:07 pm

                The answer was in the link provided, Tracey.

                [lprent: Quite inadequate. If you want people to click into links, then provide some summary information about why they should click into it rather than your effective statement of “I am a pretentious wanker”. As you can see it just causes stupid flames which I don’t like reading or dealing with and have a tendency to deal with by making sure that don’t happen again. ]
                • McFlock …

                  28 September 2017 at 1:28 pm

                  🙄
                  So you’re either incapable of stating the answer in your own words, or you’re just playing silly buggers. Gee, which could it be?
                  • The Chairman …

                    28 September 2017 at 1:46 pm

                    She was seeking further clarification, I provided it.

                    Moreover, I’m not the topic.

                    Cheeky bugger.
                    https://tinyurl.com/yd977ufu
                    • McFlock …

                      28 September 2017 at 2:05 pm

                      no you didn’t provide clarification. You merely linked to something you claim provides clarification.

                      And if you don’t provide a clear description of your point in a sentence or two of your own construction, then you’re either incapable of doing so (in which case discussing the topic with you is pointless, as you cannot comprehend it), or you’re to lazy to do so (in which case there’s no point in discussing the topic with you), or you used the request for clarification as an excuse to insert irrelevant information into the discussion alongside whatever “clarification” your link might provide (in which case there’s no point in discussing the topic with you because you’re discusssing things in bad faith).
                  • The Chairman …

                    28 September 2017 at 9:40 pm

                    I provided a link that contained further clarification. Which I thought would have been more than sufficient, but apparently not.

                    So your assumptions are merely that (assumptions). Which, of course, are incorrect.

                    But here we are talking about me again, funny that.

                    Care to engage in the topic at hand?

                    If you’re genuinely interested (which I doubt) the clarification was posted to Tracey below.
                    • McFlock …

                      28 September 2017 at 9:51 pm

                      Not that I can see much point, but here goes:

                      Are there allegations that any Labour MPs worked for schools that taught agents of foreign intelligence services?
                      No?
                      Probably just what Tracey said, then.

                      Did national do due diligence when making him a candidate?
                  • The Chairman …

                    28 September 2017 at 11:01 pm

                    “Are there allegations that any Labour MPs worked for schools that taught agents of foreign intelligence services?”

                    No, not that I’m aware of at this stage. But there are questions about donations and their connection to the CCP. As I pointed out to Tracey, it is thought (by the author of the report) both National and Labour were being similarly influenced by the Chinese.

                    And we need to know how influential that influence is. In both parties.

                    As for Nationals due diligence, it’s another thing the inquiry will need to discover. The same goes for Labour and their MPs.

                    And by the way, I did warn about this, but as usual, I was largely brushed off as a concern troll.
                    • McFlock …

                      28 September 2017 at 11:09 pm

                      When Labour face the same allegations as the nats, go consider your “questions”.

                      And by the way, I did warn about this

                      Hey, seeing as it’s about you now, did you have any concerns about, say, US involvement with the nats? Like sharing the data from the KDC search with the FBI? What about rewriting NZ labour laws after meetings with Hollywood folk?

                      Oh, wait, the yanks aren’t Chinese, so…. no, you probably didn’t.
                  • The Chairman …

                    28 September 2017 at 11:33 pm

                    “When Labour face the same allegations as the nats…”

                    They largely are.

                    However, I’m not to clear on the point you’re trying to make re go consider my questions?

                    And as for the US (and any other nation for that matter) of course I have concerns about what influence they have on our nation. One of the reasons why I opposed the TPP.
                    • McFlock …

                      28 September 2017 at 11:40 pm

                      lol largely are?

                      No. A nat mp has allegations, your wider wank merely has questions.

                      marty was pretty clear, and my point is that I agree with him: I think you’re a racist. But with the addition that you also give national a pass on genuine issues and beat up bullshit about labour and the greens.
                  • The Chairman …

                    29 September 2017 at 2:16 pm

                    It’s not just my “wank” as you put it. As highlighted above, the author of the study believes both National and Labour are being similarly influenced by the Chinese.

                    If it were only my “wider wank” (again, as you put it) Labour would have little to worry about, but as it happens, it’s not.

                    This study was largely drowned out by the election, but once that is done and dusted (and especially if Labour become the new Government) don’t be surprised if the media refocuses on this.

                    And while at this stage it may be only questions being raised, don’t you think it would be prudent to duly investigate before any potential damage is done and ensure the line hasn’t already been crossed?

                    Marty is a pinhead who can stay on the sidelines (having fun) hurling his insults for all I care. Sticks and stones. But every now and then I may give him a clip (verbally of course) and have some fun of my own.

                    Resorting to the race card is often done as a means of diminishing the concern (as in, don’t listen to him he’s a racist) and shutting down these types of discussions.

                    Like Marty and a number of others (regardless of the topic at hand) you jump at the opportunity to make it about me. It may appeal to the ignorant and pinheads like Marty, but I’m hoping more readers are above that and will see through all this racist, concern troll, undercover righty crap that continually gets thrown at me.

                    But I’m sure, going forward, you and Marty will be there to hurl your abuse, distract the discussion and do your best to make it about me. Knock yourself out. You won’t deter me.

                    Though, you may end up in the big guys bad book.
                    • McFlock …

                      29 September 2017 at 2:42 pm

                      Dude, even when I addressed the topic without discussing you, you made it about you. But if someone else does it, you get all twee and self-effacing.

                      The fact is that allegations with serious ramifications have been made about a specific individual, and wider “questions” are raised about donations overwhelmingly directed at one party in particular. Your article mentions fifteen donations to national, probably totalling well over a million bucks. But you give equal time to the one 40k donation to Labour before one donor switched allegiance. Your fixation is on China and Labour. This bias affects your comments.

                      I know you won’t be deterred – like most bigots you think that your opinions are normal and reasonable.
                    • marty mars …

                      29 September 2017 at 3:03 pm

                      As usual the self absorbed its not about me chair gets all cut up cos hes misunderstood.

                      As a troll you are quite funny but your wee mask is slipping and your bed of rancor is exposed too often now. Zero cred usually means you’ll up your comments. Ho hum lets do this…
                    • The Chairman …

                      29 September 2017 at 6:05 pm

                      @Marty

                      Thanks again for providing readers with another example of you playing the man and not the ball, Marty.

                      You know the more you do it the more chance you are going to get the big guys attention? But feel free to dig your own grave.
                    • marty mars …

                      29 September 2017 at 6:47 pm

                      Sounds like a threat.
                    • The Chairman …

                      29 September 2017 at 7:06 pm

                      No, not at all. I hold no power here to threaten you with, Marty.

                      As Winston would say, it’s just commonsense.

                      The more you play up, the more chance you’ll be caught out.
                    • marty mars …

                      29 September 2017 at 7:17 pm

                      Correct – you have no power.
                  • The Chairman …

                    29 September 2017 at 6:00 pm

                    Whether or not someone wants to make themselves the topic is their prerogative. Evidently, you don’t respect that.

                    Moreover, the instance I take it you are referring too was a side note, merely stating I forewarned about this and I was largely brushed off as a concern troll. It was inline with the topic, hence wasn’t a means to distract. And again, it’s ones prerogative and you should respect that. It’s not a green light for you to go piling it on.

                    The fact is there is more than allegations with serious ramifications being made. You’re overlooking there are also questions with potentially serious ramifications requiring answers.

                    Moreover, I’m not taking a one sided approach to this. As shown from my call for a wide-ranging inquiry.

                    Hence, that’s just you resorting to lies again in an attempt to score a point and discredit my approach.

                    The reason Labour has gotten a little more attention in this discussion relates to some being oblivious to (and some attempting to diminish) Labour’s role in this. Pointing at you.

                    As my comments will overwhelmingly show. I don’t come here to talk about me. I come here to talk politics and that which relates to it. Unlike you, that clearly wants to continue making it about me. As shown in this and most of your other replies too me.

                    So thanks again for providing readers with another example.
                    • McFlock …

                      29 September 2017 at 7:14 pm

                      Labour’s “role” in this is at worst a bit part, with the nats centre stage. Your emphasis on Labour raises the question as to why your attention dwells well away from the major players. Like your emphasis on China yet nothing about the yanks.

                      The main issue is that the nats put NZ on sale to the highest bidder. Chinese millionaires, yank billionaires, limited raw materials at low low prices, everything must go! Even earning an honourable mention from Mossack Fonseca. A cynic would argue that this is why National got so many “questioned” donations and Labour got only one – the donors got no return on their “investment” to one party, maybe? Which one?
                    • The Chairman …

                      30 September 2017 at 3:07 pm

                      “Labour’s “role” in this is at worst a bit part…”

                      That’s a bold claim.

                      The author of the study believes both National and Labour are being similarly influenced by the Chinese, suggesting their role is far larger than a bit part.

                      But, without a thorough investigation, you’re clearly speculating at best.

                      My emphasis on Labour in this particular discussion relates to some being oblivious to (and some attempting to diminish) Labour’s role in this. As I already explained.

                      So your assertion can only be seen as another attempt to discredit and make this discussion about me.

                      Thanks again for another example of you playing the man and not the ball. The more you do it, the more I’ll highlight it.

                      And as I told Marty, the more you play up like this, the more chance you’ll be caught out.

                      Moreover, each time your play the man and not the ball your veil is further lifted, exposing readers to your troll like behaviour.

                      But as I mentioned above, knock yourself out.

                      It will be interesting to see how long you’ll get away with it.

                      As for National obtaining larger donations, perhaps it’s due to them being in Government and (until recently) being perceived as more likely to maintain hold of that power. It’s rather pointless donating large sums of money to a party that won’t achieve power, thus produce a return.

                      Or maybe with Labour having two Chinese MPs to potentially apply influence, the large fiscal incentive isn’t as necessary. And with Labour having set up the free trade deal with China, perhaps they’ve already won over the support of a number within the party?
                    • McFlock …

                      1 October 2017 at 4:35 pm

                      you’re the one making the claim, doofus. You allege Labour is being influenced by the Chinese government. All you have is that Labour received one donation from people who gave repeatedly to the national party, and someone you agree with wrote an article.

                      If China is controlling the Labour party as much as it is the nats, why were Labour opposing foreign involvement in the housing market, while the nats have refused to do a damned thing?

                      You know why people usually demand (or conduct) investigations when there is no evidence of wrongdoing, or even where there is exculpatory evidence? Bias. Often racial bias (just saying that as a “side note” so apparently it would be unfair for you to respond to it in any way. /sarc)
                • tracey …

                  28 September 2017 at 2:29 pm

                  Why should I have to read your links? I could end up anywhere, like Whaleoil… You ask so many questions and demand answers of others.

                  “Moreover, do you believe its got nothing to do with questions surrounding a couple in their own camp?” I don’t know what you mean by this, Labour, National or Greens?
                  • The Chairman …

                    28 September 2017 at 9:29 pm

                    You don’t have to read my links, Tracey. However, it was a rather important political article that I would have assumed those that have an interest in politics (such as yourself) would’ve already been aware of.

                    The link clearly reads newsroom, so there was no chance of you ending up at Whaleoil.

                    Nevertheless, back to the clarification seeing as the link provided seems to have been considered inadequate. There are also questions surrounding the connections (to the CCP) of two labour MPs.

                    And as shown in the link, Professor Anne-Marie Brady from the University of Canterbury (the author of the study) believed both National and Labour were being similarly influenced by the Chinese.
                • The Chairman …

                  28 September 2017 at 11:04 pm

                  Point taken, lprent. I’ll be more careful in future.
    • Draco T Bastard 14.2

      28 September 2017 at 12:11 pm

      Well, I’d say that they’re still considering it.

      Personally, I’d go for it. If the investigation shows malicious intent and the MSM says but it was you who gave him citizenship I’d then say Yes, and now that mistake is being corrected.
      • The Chairman 14.2.1

        28 September 2017 at 12:16 pm

        Anybody know where the Greens stand on this?
        • tracey 14.2.1.1

          28 September 2017 at 12:22 pm

          Have you asked them? And Seymour? And Peters? and English?
          • The Chairman 14.2.1.1.1

            28 September 2017 at 12:25 pm

            Shouldn’t they be telling us, Tracey?
            • tracey 14.2.1.1.1.1

              28 September 2017 at 12:36 pm

              I think the torch needs to be shone on National for knowingly appointing him to their candidate list and turning him into a Parliamentarian. I won’t hold my breath though. Good luck, let us know what else you uncover.
              • The Chairman …

                28 September 2017 at 1:04 pm

                “I think the torch needs to be shone on National for knowingly appointing him to their candidate list and turning him into a Parliamentarian.”

                So from that can we take it you will be holding their (Labour, Greens) feet to the fire for them to support an inquiry? Or is not holding your breath what you recommend we all do?

                Moreover, you’ll be holding Labour to the same standard?
                • marty mars …

                  28 September 2017 at 1:07 pm

                  Whoa there sunshine you’re going from shine a torch to gruesome torture – twisted shit.
                  • The Chairman …

                    28 September 2017 at 1:14 pm

                    I’m not the topic, Marty.

                    But do feel free to engage the subject matter.

                    Do you support an inquiry?
                    • marty mars …

                      28 September 2017 at 1:20 pm

                      Nah I think you are a racist – i only make fun of them.
                • tracey …

                  28 September 2017 at 2:31 pm

                  I have no problem with an inquiry except I know they are very expensive. I would just prefer the redacted document was unredacted. So much cheaper than an inquiry
                  • The Chairman …

                    28 September 2017 at 10:01 pm

                    In this instance, I don’t believe we can let the cost of an investigation excuse not having one. And it needs to go deeper than just removing the redaction.
                • tracey …

                  28 September 2017 at 2:37 pm

                  What would you like the outcome to be (of the enquiry0?
                  • The Chairman …

                    28 September 2017 at 10:14 pm

                    We require a wide-ranging inquiry, leaving no stone unturned and see what it develops.
15. patricia bremner 15

    28 September 2017 at 12:50 pm

    See the Hagmann case of defamation against Little is going ahead as Hagmann was alive when his wife filed it.

    It could cost Andrew $100 000 They got 7 million. Neo liberals.

    Judges reserving a verdict. (yeah right!!)
    • tracey 15.1

      28 September 2017 at 2:34 pm

      Reserving a decision is usual practice in Civil cases.
    • Craig H 15.2

      28 September 2017 at 5:53 pm

      Presumably that’s only the wife’s court action – defamation law in NZ is crystal clear that claims do not survive death.
16. The Chairman 16

    28 September 2017 at 1:13 pm

    An interesting read.

    Pitfalls for the Greens and NZ First in coalition discussions – By Keith Locke.
    https://thedailyblog.co.nz/2017/09/26/pitfalls-for-the-greens-and-nz-first-in-coalition-discussions/
    • In Vino 16.1

      28 September 2017 at 5:31 pm

      Allow me to modestly predict that in a day or two our “Leftie” Mr Chairman will be raising points with great concern, subtly trying to prompt Greens and Labour towards those pits…
      • The Chairman 16.1.1

        29 September 2017 at 12:03 am

        Good to see you picked up on the post. Sadly, your assumptions are delusional.

        Clearly, the point of posting the link was to help make those pitfalls more widely known. Giving a greater chance they’ll be avoided.
17. Whispering Kate 17

    28 September 2017 at 1:26 pm

    Listening to RNZ this morning and heard about the seriously substandard apartment buildings in NZ – so serious that people will be killed if something is not done about it. The incredible thing is that these buildings cannot be named for legal reasons. What on earth is Health and Safety going to do about this. The apartment building owners have been informed but not the apartment dwellers who are owners. They are owners of these apartments. Are they going to be left in limbo forever and a day not knowing if they step on their balcony it will collapse, the building will fall off its foundations or the walls so rotting that two people have a fun fight in their apartment will fall through the side walls.

    Its appalling that people’s lives are so bloody cheap in this country. Surely the decent thing is to notify these owners of the apartments of the state and danger of their abode and give them a chance to relocate and sort out the fiasco at a later date. At least they won’t be killed or seriously injured living on in their ignorance. It just disgusts me that lives are so cheap and building owners can get away with their sloppy building practices to cut costs.

    http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/340396/multi-storey-building-flaws-almost-the-norm
    • tracey 17.1

      28 September 2017 at 2:33 pm

      National made builders and designers personally liable but not developers, as a response to leaky homes… this one smaall step might have made a big difference to the quality of the final product. The Developer generally determines the budget, not the builder.
      • Whispering Kate 17.1.1

        28 September 2017 at 2:44 pm

        Tracey It doesn’t matter who is to blame for the state of the buildings, its the fact that people are living in these buildings and not being forewarned about the dangers and that they could be seriously injured or killed. Protecting shoddy work is not acceptable and should be against the law.
        • tracey 17.1.1.1

          28 September 2017 at 2:58 pm

          It does matter Kate because history repeats cos of such things. Until we get personal responsibility on the ones holding the wallet this will keep happening. Why would National make it against the law when they refuse to fix part of the problem at the source

          Remember Key says all young people should look to apartments but left apartments off the Homesmart funding.

          There is a pattern. Labour in the past and National feed the Developer appetite knowing they avoid all recourse from shoddy work. It is another example of money over people. It is wrong of course
18. Eco maori 18

    28 September 2017 at 2:28 pm

    Wow bill and Jim must have smoke coming out there ass after what I wrote last nite because the intimation stepped up ten fold today I tried my bluff with the bank it did not work but I will not retaliate because they are worried about me getting locked up and not been able to pay there money back YEA FIGHT.
    And I can’t blame anyone for being victims of the fight between me the police and national my G mar would not approve Ka Pai
19. lprent 19

    28 September 2017 at 2:35 pm

    Odd. On my Samsung S7 edge, since yesterday, the mobile theme isn’t displaying the comment box or the reply link inside of the posts.

    I’ll see if there was some kind of crappy update last night. Otherwise it will have to wait until after work.

    Anyone else seeing it?
    • Frida 19.1

      28 September 2017 at 3:26 pm

      yes @lprent on my iPhone
    • Eco maori 19.2

      28 September 2017 at 6:21 pm

      My phones is a Huawei and I have to use computer mode to post because there is no reply tabs in phone format Iprent thanks
20. odysseus 20

    28 September 2017 at 3:00 pm

    This may have been canvassed before but does anyone know NZF’s position on the tax cuts scheduled for April 18 ?

    Essentially Labour’s programme of education / health / etc investment is dependent upon cancelling those cuts. So if NZF wants to retain those tax cuts then Labours has its hands tied , yes? Which way did NZF vote on these tax changes?
21. Morrissey 21

    28 September 2017 at 3:21 pm

    Other than politicians, is there anyone in the world more unpleasant than Bill Gates?

    Not only unpleasant, but fundamentally stupid….
22. Ed 22

    28 September 2017 at 4:28 pm

    The Panel repeating right wing bs about National Green alliance.
    Please RNZ ……. stop repeating National Party lies and spin.
    Do your job.
    • tc 22.1

      28 September 2017 at 4:54 pm

      That is their job under Griffin, why else would you have DP players like Hooten and Farrar on unless you were intent on bias.

      RNZ doesn’t have the reach that redneck radio rantland does that’s why they’ve ZB and radio Live to cover the demographics.
23. Ad 23

    28 September 2017 at 4:50 pm

    Just for Hugh Hefner, now he’s dead:

    One day you’re going to have to face
    A deep dark truthful mirror
24. ScottGN 24

    28 September 2017 at 4:56 pm

    A 13.2% swing to Labour and Greens in my electorate of Clutha-Southland. Not bad for one of the most conservative seats in the country.
    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/97283075/election-shows-ruralurban-divide-shrinking-not-growing
25. Eco maori 25

    28 September 2017 at 7:23 pm

    I’m trying to support some people’s Wairua and you neo liberal go and stuff them up.
    So why did you not support Joe,s fight when they needed it is it because he would become a role model for all Brown people in NZ O we can’t have that because they will come out in force and vote you out you neo liberals are idiots and have tunnel vision and we cannot let you run OUR Country we are all on this journey together you fools
    Ka Pai

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