Open mike 28/12/2015

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, December 28th, 2015 - 31 comments
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31 comments on “Open mike 28/12/2015 ”

  1. b waghorn 1

    http://m.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=11566472
    hide seems to think that James Shaw is fit for the purpose of delivering the greens into a nat/green coalition .

    • weka 1.1

      Must be having an off day, he used ‘amazing’ twice in the first paragraph.

      Fortunately for NZ, James Shaw (or any GP co-leader) doesn’t get to decide who the GP go into coalition with. He also doesn’t want the GP to go into coalition with National.

      http://thestandard.org.nz/green-politics/

      Hyde is spinning (interesting kind of subtle spin though, because his implication could just as easily be that the GP are picking up votes and gaining more leverage re a Labour coalition).

      • Wainwright 1.1.1

        It’s a total fiction that Shaw or Turei don’t have influence over who the Greens go into coalition with. Sure there’s the membership vote process but it’s ridiculous to keep suggesting that if Shaw presented a coalition deal which ticked a few Greenie boxes and said “this is the best we’re getting” the membership would revolt against him.

        • Draco T Bastard 1.1.1.1

          Actually, that would be Shaw revolting against the membership.

        • weka 1.1.1.2

          “It’s a total fiction that Shaw or Turei don’t have influence over who the Greens go into coalition with. Sure there’s the membership vote process but it’s ridiculous to keep suggesting that if Shaw presented a coalition deal which ticked a few Greenie boxes and said “this is the best we’re getting” the membership would revolt against him.”

          I didn’t say that the co-leaders don’t have influence. Of course they do. As do others in the party more than me as a mere member. What’s ridiculous is the idea that (a) Shaw wants the GP to be in coalition with National and (b) that even if he did that the membership would fall in behind him if he presented a few baubles. I know this is hard to understand given the behaviour of other parties (looking at you Peters), but the GP structure doesn’t allow what you are suggesting*. Go read the link above for more detail on how the process actually works (basically the GP position is decided at the AGM. Current remit is very clear that a coalition with National is not an option).

          *from what I can tell there is a way the exec can override the AGM process but as Draco points out, that would be them revolting against the membership and it would be party suicide. They would have outright lied to the membership and the membership wouldn’t forgive them. So yeah, it’s theoretically possible, but I’ve yet to see any credible view on why Shaw would do that.

          If you disagree with the above, please explain how Shaw (or any co-leader) could take the GP into coalition with National, with reference to party processes (including the process of coalition negotiation).

          • Wainwright 1.1.1.2.1

            This is like Labourites who try to argue that the leader can’t announce policy off his own bat because “there’s process”. Like no party has ever betrayed its membership or manipulated processes to get the “right” result.

            • weka 1.1.1.2.1.1

              In other words you have no idea about the internal rules of the Green Party, or its values, or why it functions the way that it does.

              “This is like Labourites who try to argue that the leader can’t announce policy off his own bat because “there’s process”.”

              Really? Because I see Labour MPs often doing what they want when they want and I’ve not see any Labourites trying to argue that they don’t or can’t, or that there are processes that prevent them. I think you are making things up. And that you can’t address any of my points so have thrown up a straw man.

              • Wainwright

                There’s no point addressing someone whose only argument is “process”. Process is a facade. Maybe you’ll figure that out if Shaw does push your party to the right. As for Labour, maybe you weren’t paying attention when Shearer was making things up all over the place to the costernation of the membership who never voted for him. Not my problem.

                • weka

                  My argument isn’t only ‘process’. I’ve linked to the explanation of how the GP will decide on coalition deals. Have you even read that? If you have, then please explain how Shaw can make the membership support the GP being in government with National. Then show me somewhere where Shaw says he thinks it’s a good idea.

                  As for Labour, maybe you weren’t paying attention when Shearer was making things up all over the place to the costernation of the membership who never voted for him.

                  Of course, but your argument appears to be that there is ‘process’ in place within Labour and it doesn’t mean anything. I’m saying there isn’t any process in place around MPs speaking out, unlike with the GP which does have rules around coalition formation.

                  You appear to be saying that the GP are able to be manipulated by MPs/leaders in the same way that Labour is. I’m asking for evidence of that because my understanding is that the GP rules don’t allow it. Pretty sure they were written for that precise purpose, to keep the party as democratic as possible.

                  Not my problem.

                  Seems like you are making it your problem today.

      • Draco T Bastard 1.1.2

        Hyde is spinning (interesting kind of subtle spin though, because his implication could just as easily be that the GP are picking up votes and gaining more leverage re a Labour coalition).

        He’s trying to get Green voters to stop voting Green.

    • tc 1.2

      Rortneys role is spin and deflection to assist with the sell off that he had no small part in with supershity, 35 yr water contracts etc. It’s more wedge behaviour under instruction from CT ultimately.

      He’s very capable in that regard, a bit too capable so the act holding parent company, national, dumped him for the cavalcade of dodgy dullards such as banksy and rimmer.

    • BM 1.3

      Be the best thing they could ever do.

      Shakes the extremists out of the tree and gives them so much more leverage going forward.

      • b waghorn 1.3.1

        I would suggest that the greens joining up with national would be as fraught with risk as being a male praying mantis at mating season.

    • RedBaronCV 1.4

      Looks like Rodney is stirring trouble.
      This is what he says:
      “Under Shaw’s leadership, the Greens are quietly repositioning. They joined National in hailing the climate change agreement concluded in Paris.”

      and this is what the Greens press release of 17 Dec says:
      “National failing on climate change – emissions set to sky rocket”
      Metiria Turei MP on Thursday, December 17, 2015 – 15:36

      https://www.greens.org.nz/news/press-release/national-failing-climate-change-%E2%80%93-emissions-set-sky-rocket

      and they are worlds apart.

      But Rodney may be trying to stem a business/farming drift to the Greens whose policies are seen as far more business friendly and sensible than the “drill baby drill of Nact”. Even if they are only trying to cut costs many businesses/farms know that oil is going to end, that the climate is changing and these are risks they need to address. So yes – the Greens could be seen as more business friendly but on their terms not the emissions rot that Nact peddles.

    • Expat 1.5

      It appears the Green Party is slowly re-positioning, it has a lot of members from the affluent and fashionable areas like Waiheke and Coromandel, it chose to support the Govt on several occasions recently, not something you would have seen 5 or 8 years ago.
      A coalition of the Greens and National is a contradiction of terms, for this to happen the Greens would have to sellout their values to the extent that they were no longer recognisable.

    • aerobubble 1.6

      National have done little to grow any affection amongst Green, rather, to the contrary. So it is pure bunk anyone talking up a deal since there is nothing in it. Its just a spin story to try a bring back nat leaning Greens who might r believe that the Greens some how will achieve something by some empty thought experiment which is all that it is. If only Greens could work with the greed capitalists somehow the planet will be saved. You can understand how those attracted to the free market fantasy might also believe in the deliverance of a breakout of cooperation.

      In a world where the Saudis have stopped producing and are just selling their stock pile cheap, the national party truly has its head in the sand when it thinks it needs the Greens to move forward and embrace Green solutions. I.e just more of the same effort of corporate status quo try into keep the inevitable at bay, and so the wishful think that they could close in in the Green brand and rubbish it instead of undermining their profit making endeavors that soon will be neither profitable or are planet saving.

      Listen to Hide and do the opposite. Go green. But National can’t its base will lose and have go out and make real taxable income in a Green economy.

  2. Rodel 2

    Lynton Crosby is to given a knighthood..via David Cameron.
    Apart from the word ‘cronyism’ -‘the appointment of friends and associates to positions of authority, without proper regard to their qualifications’….words fail me.

    What next ? “Sir Rodney Hide?

  3. Penny Bright 3

    28 December 2015

    Upon WHAT factual basis is Radio NZ stating that Phil Goff, Victoria Crone and Mark Thomas are the three ‘leading’ candidates for the Auckland Mayoralty?

    (I already have filed a formal complaint with RNZ regarding their coverage of the 2016 Auckland Mayoralty).

    http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/summerreport/audio/201784349/three-leading-candidates-for-auckland-mayoralty

    NOT impressed.

    Penny Bright

    2016 Auckland Mayoral candidate.

  4. Rosie 4

    We may have a increasingly unequal society and all the tension that comes from that, and we may have an uncaring unthinking government voted in by an uncaring unthinking population but our writers and musicians are still world class.
    We have these people at least, to provide relief from the anguish some might feel at living in the new nu zulund and provide uplift and inspiration in a time that can be sad, dreary and distressing.

    In the spirit of Weekend Social and in lieu of it I’d like to announce my favourite fiction book of the year. This is really hard though as we have so many great writers so there is a first equal and a runner up, and a worthy mention.

    Wake by Elizabeth Knox (2013). One of NZ’s most respected writers writes about a zombie attack and how the surviving humans adapt to life trapped inside a force field in a small town near Nelson.

    http://vup.victoria.ac.nz/wake/

    First equal with Wake is Where the Rekohu Bones Sings by Tina Makereti. This was totally engrossing and quite touching. “From the Chatham Islands/Rehoku to London from 1835 to the 21st century, this quietly powerful and compelling story the confronts the complexity of being Moriori, Maori ans Pakeha”

    http://lumiere.net.nz/index.php/tina-makereti-on-where-the-rekohu-bone-sings/

    Runner up: The Last Days of the National Costume by Anne Kennedy. A story about a seamstress and her observations of the lives of her clients, one Irish/NZ man in particular. Set in Auckland during a 5 week power blackout. Dark humour and superb storytelling. Here’s a bit more about the book and Anne Kennedys writing style:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0FnO7Hr_5DI

    A worthy mention is Purgatory by Rosetta Allen. The story is based upon the 1865 Otahuhu murders. One of the child victims spirit is left behind and remains earthbound to watch events unfold after the murders. Dark but exceptional writing.

    http://www.penguin.co.nz/products/9780143571025/purgatory

    The above three book all have relevant historical content that carry the stories.

    • Halfcrown 4.1

      Thanks for that Rosie. I am always looking for new sources of reading matter. It is also nice to see that all the novels are by New Zealand writers, and the stories are based on NZ.

      “but our writers and musicians are still world class.” Agree 200% with that statement.

      I read a lot of history This years favourites are,
      The Boer War by Thomas Pakenham
      The Scramble for Africa by Thomas Pakenham.
      but the best of all is. It’s Not Rocket Science by Ben Miller a British comedian who gave up doing a PhD to go into comedy. I liked it, in layman terms he writes about Black Holes, Plate tectonics and why your cooking goes wrong at times. He has certainly improved my cooking.
      Compliments of the season to you

      • Rosie 4.1.1

        I return those festive wishes to you, Halfcrown 🙂

        I wanted to focus on just a handful of our talented writers. My favourites this year just all happen to be women, thats just the way it happened. My inadequate introductions don’t do them or their stories any justice.
        I should mention for balance, a male writer from the States who I enjoyed. Keeping Bedlam at Bay in the Prague Cafe by M.Henderson Ellis was a quirky tale about an American in a city familiarisng itself with it’s new found capitalism.

        http://www.publishersweekly.com/978-0-9825781-8-6

        Thanks for your suggested readings. Have been watching some interesting doco’s on Al Jazzerra about the colonial influences across different African nations, a history I know little about. Simon Reeves from the BBC has some interesting shows looking at the future for Africa as China expands it business in that region, exploiting resources, like those before them.

  5. Draco T Bastard 5

    Like Star Wars, Corbyn has gone back in order to go forward

    The Force Awakens has delighted fans because it went back to the beginning. Visual and verbal references cropped up every other minute to underline the point: Star Wars is coming home.

    A hundred days into his leadership, another national treasure has achieved something similar. With Jeremy Corbyn, socialism’s coming home.

    I believe that Labour and the other parties of the Left in NZ needs to do the same. And it’s not about going back to the same policies as the 1960s but going back to the same vision: Equality, egalitarianism, fairness with a few extras such as looking after the environment and running a sustainable economy.

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CXBgtzcWYAAObL5.jpg:large

    • Expat 5.1

      DTB.
      “I believe that Labour and the other parties of the Left in NZ needs to do the same. And it’s not about going back to the same policies as the 1960s but going back to the same vision: Equality, egalitarianism, fairness with a few extras such as looking after the environment and running a sustainable economy.”

      So do I, +1

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