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Open mike 29/07/2020

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, July 29th, 2020 - 172 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

172 comments on “Open mike 29/07/2020 ”

  1. ScottGN 1

    Not hearing much anymore from the Collins fanbois in the media who were so confident that she only had to turn up to Question Time to give Ardern a going-over.

  2. Robert Guyton 2

    Jacinda presents as supremely able and adroit in the House. Collins' attempts at delivering challenging questions thus far have been mediocre at best, flaccid in some instances and disappointing overall. There hasn't even been entertainment value for viewers. Perhaps she's keeping her powder dry, saving her most eyebrow-raising stuff for closer to polling day.

    • I Feel Love 2.1

      Someone here a week or so back suggested Adern needs to show more mongrel, I reckon she shows plenty, but it's quiet, big picture, 3d chess playing, for eg letting the Falloon thing just play out, compared to the tiddly winks Collins is playing. Woodhouse, Walker just shown to be short sighted light weights. Anti abortion, maga hats, & who the hell thought it was a good idea to have an 18 year old running??? I feel for that kid, he needs to bail & go get himself a Hitler free life.

      • Treetop 2.1.1

        Not so much showing more mongrel. Judgment being a bit off when it comes to all the components adding up and the people involved.

        The behaviour of MPs is compared to the standard which MPs set for theirselves. A too high standard is unrealistic and a too low standard is trouble.

        Consenting affairs, messy break ups, party donations, getting dirt on your opponent and how that dirt is used are all issues which MPs can face.

        When a situation is created to end the career of an MP this is a serious matter. Very good judgment is required on how to handle this and to hurry the process is a big mistake.

        I want our politicians to have a moral compass which is right for the situation. Once damage is inflicted which was not warranted this makes the person who instigated it worse than what the initial issue was which they wanted raised.

      • Anne 2.1.2

        That was me I Feel Love but my comment iirc said "a little bit of mongrel" and I intended to mean all of them not just Jacinda.

        I agree with you. There is a wee bit of mongrel and in Jacinda's case it is delivered with aplomb and sophistication. It shows in her answers to Judith Collins during QT when she delivers her replies with such assurance and a quite pronounced cutting edge to her tone.

      • Peter 2.1.3

        Arden needs to show more mongrel? Why? There's already a female dog there.

  3. Dennis Frank 3

    Richard Shaw, Professor of Politics at Massey University, alerts aussies to "a tectonic shift in New Zealand politics": https://theconversation.com/rogue-poll-or-not-all-the-signs-point-to-a-tectonic-shift-in-new-zealand-politics-143529

    the political centre appears to be shifting to the left. Across the past four polls, support for Labour and the Greens sits at around 62 per cent. When nearly two out of three voters in a naturally conservative nation support the centre-left, something is going on.

    A day or two back, I commented here that centrists seem to have shifted massively to the left. Now the prof is seeing that too, and the next poll may entrench it as conventional wisdom: the new normal.

    Correspondingly, as the notional median voter shifts left, parties on the right are being left high and dry. The Reid Research poll put the combined support for National, Act and New Zealand First at 30.4 per cent, a touch under half the level of support for the centre-left.

    That ratio of two to one is indeed tectonic! But it does challenge the left parties to remain consistent. Any sharp turn to the left in policy carries the danger of stampeding those centrists back into the centre.

    What the prof hasn't considered is the reflexive nature of the electorate thinking and acting in unison. When you factor that in, you can see a real possibility of some centrists retreating from the left – in alarm at the prospect of Greens plus Labour in govt together. Winston may yet survive, given that his traditional stance (`insurance policy') has worked well for centrists in the past. Too soon for that collective reaction to the poll to emerge as yet – give it another week or two…

    • mauī 3.1

      So Dennis you are predicting a swing to the left and then a further swing back to the right? Dennis, that is superb analysis, thank you.

      • Dennis Frank 3.1.1

        Not so fast. It will only be valid if proven correct. And I didn't actually predict it – merely suggested the possibility, right? Call it the yo-yo theory if u like.

        Although I prefer the pinball theory of centrism, in which centrists rebound from different options on a daily basis as political hits are delivered. Pinball theory explains volatility better than yo-yo theory because the latter is too binary and Winston succeeds whenever centrists prefer his tertiary option…

        • Incognito 3.1.1.1

          😀

          How many eyebrows was that?

          • bwaghorn 3.1.1.1.1

            Probably one . All deep deep thinkers have a monobrow

            • greywarshark 3.1.1.1.1.1

              Dennis F The Pinball Wizard – Who? Is that you in the fringes? With this sort of excitement we could draw in the youf and have a musical election hitting the high notes.

            • Incognito 3.1.1.1.1.2

              I’ll have to think about that one.

    • Sacha 3.2

      It's almost like there has been some large opinion-shaping event while the current PM has been leader..

    • Stuart Munro 3.3

      These ideas of a centre and a tectonic shift are probably fallacious. Ordinarily, if we may call any period ordinary, the governed muddle along and are prepared to be nudged to some degree by the deteriorating and increasingly partisan media. A crisis, particularly one that carries an existential threat, suddenly makes the public pay attention. They found the handling of Covid reasonably professional, and the criticism of it ill-informed, mean-spirited, and often simply wrong. The centre has not shifted – it was never as far to the right as ridiculous commentators like Hoskings or Garner supposed.

      The public like professionalism – or as Dennis Dutton described it, virtuoso performance. So they liked Bloomfield & Jacinda. Whether NZ actually makes a modest but long overdue turn to the Left depends on whether some of these touted policies can be brought to good.

      National have overplayed their hand. They have demonstrated repeatedly that their toolbox is empty and that they have nothing to offer but slogans and bile – these are not vote winners.

      • Dennis Frank 3.3.1

        Yes, I agree with all that. However, only the election result can determine a realistic view of it. If some centrists do return to NZF, the tectonic thesis will seem illusory.

        That said, don't rule out human nature. People can change political identities. If Labour governs alone or with the Greens, some centrists will cast their anchor with them – provided the government, in those scenarios, remains consistent in exhibiting competence and reliability.

        And such identity shifts can then become habitual and long-term. That's where the strength of the tectonic thesis lies. Labour's political culture is likely to keep working against that however. Greens political culture is also problematic, but due to different reasons. So I suspect the academic will be proven wrong by random developments in future years. Stability is hard in these times.

        • Incognito 3.3.1.1

          Tectonic shifts, earthquakes, GFCs, mass killings, pandemics, natural disasters, CC, et cetera. I give you ‘status quo’ and that’s my ‘thesis’.

          • Dennis Frank 3.3.1.1.1

            Oh, true. Yet if a political party can not only promote resilience & sustainability, but also demonstrate cohesion within itself in a governance situation, that party will seem a rock of stability to rely on. Just a theoretical possibility at this stage, but can even work as a beacon of hope in dire times…

    • weka 3.4

      I'm a fan of Lynn's theory that much of NZ voting is based in perceptions of competency. Nat voters favouring Labour may simply come down to that. Swing voters are probably influenced by the policy as well, but it will be interesting also to see the conservative non-vote. The impression that I have is that the centre by and large could go either way at any point in time and covid has prompted many to centre values in their politics rather than economics primarily. Labour reminded them that it's important to do right by people, and Nat are utterly failing on that.

      I agree there's potential for NZF to regain their vote, but I also think it's possible this year that Peters has fucked up and misread the electorate. Kind of like he did the year he betrayed his left wing voters. We will see.

      That competency factor is also imo why the Green vote dropped in 2017. It wasn't Turei's speech, and it probably wasn't the details about her benefit. It was how the Greens floundered in conventional political terms, and then the mess created by the two MPs going against caucus publicly. Also obviously the rise of JA, but had the other not been happening I think the Greens would have held their vote.

      • Dennis Frank 3.4.1

        Re competency, I feel the Greens are trending well currently. Wouldn't surprise me to see them come in around 9% at the election. I agree about Winston misreading the public mood.

        As regards perception of Labour competency, the notion is so unusual that I will suspend judgment awhile yet! 😊 But yes, centrists seem to have gotten it into their heads. Will Labour produce another shambles to dissipate that? Time will tell.

      • I agree Weka. Winston Peters feels his role in this Government went from "She's his puppet" to ""You don't know what I've saved you from"… but people are not buying either stance any more.

        Jacinda Ardern does not waste energy on such things, and has at times summed things up with brevity and clarity. Very competent indeed. Notice she says "We" not "I'.

  4. Jamie-Lee Ross has threatened to table a leaked list of Natz donors from the 2017 election during General Debate today.

    Of course, he won't be allowed to, but I do hope Labour has given him a slot in the debate so he can talk about his list.

    Oh my, we do live in exciting times. It's not often you get to witness the demise of a political party.

    • Herodotus 4.1

      And how is that in the long term good for a country the demise of ideas and challenging ideas/policy in a duopoly ?

      You may not be older enough to have seen what can happen when 1 party has total control.

      the left or the right don’t have a monopoly of good ideas, life experiences or perspectives🤪

    • Nick 5.1

      The Greens Marama and Chloe billboard letter placement seems out. Should have had much bigger 'Green Vote twice' and push down the other white lettering as there's lots of dead, dark unused space below. The background image also has white bits under the white lettering.

      Also I have seen other Green marketing using another political parties name Act Now. This is poor messaging imo. Was there no other phrase available?

    • PaddyOT 5.2

      This was sent to me off instagram, The New Conservative NZ pitch. Startling !

      https://www.instagram.com/p/CC-SYtxsYoJ/?igshid=5fi5hkh84i6e

      Not sure if someone was taking the mickey.

    • Muttonbird 5.3

      Enjoyed that, thanks.

    • RedBaronCV 5.4

      I wondered why the first billboard seemed to be about spark then realised it was ACT.

      Pretty much the same colours and placement as spark though!

    • swordfish 5.5

      Slogan check: General consensus around The Spinoff office was that it sounds like a Celine Dion song. And we mostly like Celine Dion.

      I stopped reading at that point.

  5. Chris 6

    Collins wants to work with the government on policy to charge returning NZers for quarantine. The psychopathic outbursts keep coming. Thank you Judith. Please give us more of this:

    “Asked whether she thought charging kiwis to use their rights as citizens to return to New Zealand was unfair, Collins responded saying that sometimes life is unfair.”

    “I don’t think life is fair. If it was fair I’d be a 5ft 10 Slovakian model,” Collins said.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300068372/judith-collins-tells-labour-to-reach-across-the-aisle-on-border-scheme

    • ScottGN 6.1

      How many times has she used that old line?

      • Robert Guyton 6.1.1

        She makes a good point though: she'd be in Slovakia and we'd never have been subject to her attentions. Life clearly isn't fair (on New Zealanders).

        • woodart 6.1.1.1

          no, she perhaps thinks she would have been the fourth mrs trump.

        • anker 6.1.1.2

          "I 'd be a Slovakian model…" or maybe she wishes she was married to Donald Trump?

          Oh snap woodart

    • Chris 6.2

      In the same piece Collins says she'd let people bust into Kiwisaver to keep businesses going because "it's their money". Typical selfish gutless right wing strategy: "look, aren't we wonderful" when the only cost is to people using retirement savings meant for later on. Complete and utter short-term thinking. No foresight whatsoever. Next they'll be making Kiwisaver part of the asset test to receive a social welfare benefit.

      It's "their" money – Collins doesn't see herself as part of a community.

      • woodart 6.2.1

        this is straight out of the muldoon playbook. buy votes and ruin a pension scheme. media need to call her out on this. muldoon ruined NZs financial future and security with this. collins is trying to do same.

      • Cinny 6.2.2

        A person would have to think and plan long and hard to start up a business at this stage in the cycle.

        Also there are plenty of agencies who give funding to people starting up their own business already, with no need for people to dip into their kiwisaver.

    • Incognito 6.3

      It’s fair to say that this is an odd way to sum up Life’s unfairness. If Life were fair, I’d be at least 5ft 11.

      • Chris 6.3.1

        It's a way to sum up life's unfairness that's derogatory towards anyone who mightn't possess physical features consistent with media-driven notions of beauty. But this shouldn't be surprising coming from someone with at least a tendency to exhibit traits suggesting psychopathy and narcissism.

    • Muttonbird 6.4

      Asked what the point of the joke was, Collins said: "It's a public town hall meeting, people want to be entertained… It's called humour and actually, people need a bit more humour in their lives. If they were a little more happier we wouldn't actually have people looking so sad all the time."

      What the f**k is she on about about here? Collins sounds like a Year 5 child being interviewed.

      https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/422242/judith-collins-on-polling-criticism-and-prison-escapees-joke

      • "If they were a little more happier we wouldn't actually have people looking so sad all the time."

        An unintended insight into the mood in the National Party caucus room?

        • mac1 6.4.1.1

          I watched Question Time yesterday. What a bunch of sad sack, facially immobile people beside and behind Judith Collins et al. It looked like they'd been told not to move lest they distract from the Prima Donna herself who looked distinctly sad, looking down at her script most of the time, reading from long quotes and using no body languages. Flat, sad and seriously 'meaningful' is the new National demeanour, it seems.

          Contrast that with the earnest but lively gravitas and ability to speak without a script of Jacinda Ardern who at one time looked like she was rolling up her sleeves to get into it in a big way; or with the exuberance of Megan Woods who looked like she was enjoying even quoting from scripts; or Carmel Sepeloni who engaged well, full body language and who was obviously thinking about her answers; or lastly, Peters with his sly smirk as he shafted the opposition with a question that rebutted Collins' allegation and then allows Ardern to come back in at a proper PM level.

          Popcorn optional…….

      • woodart 6.4.2

        so, if you go to a p.n. nats meeting, you get some lies, raised eyebrows and feeble humour, and a promise of a road to avoid p.n… along with a teenager to represent you.

    • AB 6.5

      “I don’t think life is fair.”
      Interesting how conservatives use the existence of natural unfairness (we are not born equally smart or beautiful, etc.) as justification for imposing a layer socially-created unfairness on top. It's a blurring of categories that serves them well ideologically (or in propaganda terms), but it's tosh. Not surprising to see the intellectually shabby Collins doing it.

  6. aj 7

    Hard to use your kiwisaver to start a business, if you have already used it for your first home.

    • AB 7.1

      Then you can use it for your retirement too – that makes 3 times. Kiwisaver – which they would never have set up themselves and cut the employer contribution on becoming government – is truly the Nats' magic money tree. Could I use it to build myself a road as well? (4 times lucky)

    • Cullen just said the same thing on Midday Report (RNZ).

      The whole point of Kiwisaver is to be a simple scheme that provides a retirement income, not to set up businesses or buy houses.

      This is another case of Labour being better long-term managers of the economy than national.

      • Chris 7.2.1

        "This is another case of Labour being better long-term managers of the economy than national."

        Absolutely. Hope the government makes hay out of this.

      • RedBaronCV 7.2.2

        Micheal Cullen? Wasn't he very ill/ on limited time? Sounding a bit better?

    • Graeme 7.3

      So National want to stimulate the economy by getting those made unemployed by Covid to blow their retirement funds starting a business in the depths of a recession.

    • Treetop 7.4

      In 1975 Muldoon said he would not implement a compulsory retirement scheme as Labour were going to. This helped Muldoon win the election. Labour were only in a term from 1972 – 1975.

      This election Collins is trying to get people to spend their retirement savings. First it is the 20K to start a small business, then it will be to have surgery privately so you can run the small business, next it will be to take a holiday to cheer yourself up because the small business failed.

      At least being able to use Kiwi saver to buy a home the home will increase in value.

      • Graeme 7.4.1

        That's how Muldoon axed Labour's superannuation scheme in 1975, the Dancing Cossacks

        • Yes, and I believe the cartoons were produced by Hanna Barbera.

          So a little foreign influence as a hang over from Mccarthyism???

        • Treetop 7.4.1.2

          Thank you for providing this. I knew about the term dancing cossacks but I had only seen a drawing of it.

          Muldoon looked so different in the footage compared to 9 years later when he announced the snap election.

          • Graeme 7.4.1.2.1

            The insular point of view, and lies, haven't changed.

            I remember well watching that with my mum on TV at dinner time, I think the Thursday night before the 1975 election. We looked at each outer open mouthed for a long time. I've never trusted the National Party since.

  7. Observer Tokoroa 8

    Whoever coached the Palmerston 18yr old kid ?

    Because, the extraordinary odd behaviors of Hitler ended up in complete Cowardice. He killed himself, The Creep – Running away from his Nation and its People.

    Why did national even think of Nazism!

    • Chris 8.1

      Right wing politics and nazis share at least the same order – probably closer to genus.

    • Incognito 8.2

      You seem to be conflating the actions of an emotional junior candidate and the actions of the Party. Don’t worry, it happens a lot.

    • Cinny 8.3

      Every time that young fella makes a gaff it seems to be white power related. Say's it all really.

  8. (Via HackerNews:) Socialism's DIY Computer

    This fascinating article about the "Galaksija" and homebrew computer culture in 1980's Yugoslavia outlines an alternative history of the computer revolution… open source, widespread sharing, low cost, local manufacture.

    The reason for this resurgent interest in Galaksija is perhaps due to the fact that this exciting and little-known episode in computer-science history is pregnant with counterfactual potential. Galaksija embodies a destratification of today’s technological hierarchy, a tacit ideological assertion that computing machinery should be for the masses, cheap and available to everyone, and that neither money nor technical know-how need be barriers to entry. Paralleling the Yugoslavian alternative to the bipolar world order, the Galaksija saga signals to uninitiated technologists that alternative modes of practice are possible, paths wholly separate from those of Western manufacturing overlords like IBM, Microsoft, Hewlett-Packard, or Apple.

  9. .
    Billionaires Shouldn't Exist

    A striking slideshow via reddit: r/LateStageCapitalism

    • roblogic 10.1

      On a similar note, I hope everyone boycotts the America's Cup. It's costing Auckland $100 million at a time when the council is broke, so that a few billionaires can fuck around with yachts. And it's stealing more of our harbour and waterfront from the public.

      https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/business/422226/america-s-cup-waterfront-businesses-hope-for-domestic-spending

      • Ad 10.1.1

        Thats the spirit. Stick to sheep and butter.

        Its Fred Dagg Economics.

        • roblogic 10.1.1.1

          The local superyacht industry is sinking just like the rest of the economy. Billionaires won't save us.

          • Ad 10.1.1.1.1

            Not sinking from where I sit.

            All the superyacht berths are booked for the next year.

            The fitout businesses have certainly suffered through lockdown, but it's in full swing here now.

            We need more local billionaires, not less.

              • Ad

                That was definitely true in May and June since we were in lockdown and winter is always the worst season.

                The industry is ramping up well in preparation for the big fitout start date – which is without fail Labour Day.

                Come on down to the Auckland waterfront and I'll show you if you like.

            • AB 10.1.1.1.1.2

              "We need more local billionaires, not less."

              For each billionaire, I reckon 8,000 people worth an extra $125,000 each would be better for the economy.

              • Ad

                Let's hear it for reckons!

                Imagine a New Zealand in which there were 12 businesses the size of Fonterra, instead of one.

                All the salaries, all the local shareholders.

                At the moment all we tend to focus on is welfare and concrete and Kiwisaver … and just hanging on.

                • Incognito

                  Imagine a New Zealand in which there were 12 businesses the size of Fonterra, instead of one.

                  All the salaries, all the local shareholders.

                  No problem as long as they don’t wreck the environment and the fine thread of society by increasing inequality.

                  No problem as long as “salaries” and “local shareholders” are euphemisms for direct benefits to all New Zealanders.

                  Imagine no possessions

                  I wonder if you can

                  No need for greed or hunger

                  A brotherhood of man

                  Imagine all the people

                  Sharing all the world

                  – John Lennon –

                • AB

                  Those 8,000 people who are all a bit more wealthy will also spend and invest – but diversely. The risk is therefore lower than the vanity projects of individual billionaires. But hey – my reckons are mere reckons, your reckons are cutting-edge insights, so it's all cool.

                  • Ad

                    12 billionaire companies would hire a lot more than 8,000 $125,000 salaries. We probably have not too many more than 8,000 people on that figure across the whole of Auckland. And we are in the most massive and growing inequality, and we have a rapidly declining tax base.

                    People wonder why there's 20% of the country living elsewhere: the opportunities just weren't here.

  10. Molly 11

    Like everyone else, we've had a lot going in during this year. Not least of which has been a fraught experience with our tenants that lasted several months.

    During this time, the tenant stopped paying rent and his mother, I guess, as a trustee, started paying rent from their family trust. This continued for several weeks, until – as she told me – she thought he was going to be sent to jail – and the payments stopped.

    I know that I shouldn't be using TS for legal advice, but we are a bit at a loss at the moment, and would appreciate any of the lawyers here giving a bit of direction if they feel so inclined.

    Primarily, do the financial transactions that took place between the trust and us create a financial agreement, and make the trust liable for the damage that was done to the property, or are they insulated from us including them on our application for compensation?

    • roblogic 11.1

      Get out of the landlord game if you don't know what you're doing.

      • Molly 11.1.1

        Thanks, roblogic. Removing a very affordable place to rent in Auckland sounds like a great plan, and will help with housing our people.

        (Although we have had four couples stay with us for several years, and have then been able to afford to buy their first homes, and this is our first bad experience with tenants, so…)

        It's interesting to know that advice such as this, is the best you have to offer. Especially given the fact you have absolutely no details about the situation. And apparently have no need to find out.

        Apologies to anyone else in the TS community, who feels I have overstepped the line. I'll look elsewhere for advice.

        • Muttonbird 11.1.1.1

          https://www.tenancy.govt.nz

          Before you speak to them you will want to have read over the tenancy agreement which both you and the tenant will have signed.

          Good luck.

          • Molly 11.1.1.1.1

            Thanks, muttonbird. Have been through all the paperwork and filing etc in regards to the situation, regarding rent arrears and aggressive behaviour. We have been very careful to meet our responsibilities as landlords and keep to the advice of the Tenancy Services.

            Have already had a Tenancy Hearing, and obtained the termination order and only just regained access to the property after the tenants vacated in the middle of the night.

            So, just looking at the process of filing another application to the Tenancy Tribunal for the damages to property, and just wondered if it was worth it, as we are undergoing some serious health concerns at present. I am thankful that they have left as they were on our property, and the ongoing abuse was quite stressful, however, the damage is quite significant and will be costly to remedy but just trying to decide where to concentrate my energy at the moment.

            • Muttonbird 11.1.1.1.1.1

              Ok. Sorry to hear about the health issues. I assume, even though it won't cover the damage, you at least have the bond?

              Not an expert, but I would say the agreement is between yourselves and the tenant, not the tenant's mother. This may make recovery from her difficult.

              • Molly

                That's OK, muttonbird. Will just have to file and go through the process all over again I expect.

                The bond has already been allocated to us, in regards to offsetting the rent arrears, which was considerable as the Covid-19 restrictions on top of the waiting for hearing dates ended up with 3 months of rent being unpaid. So it's no longer available to offset damages now the property has been returned.

                This assumption of landlord irresponsibility and breaches by roblogic above, is a problem, as much as all the horror stories about tenants.

                I will continue to advocate when possible for decent rental housing at an affordable price for all NZers, and hope at some point we will be able to continue to offer one place at least.

            • RedBaronCV 11.1.1.1.1.2

              Sorry to hear about your health plus these excess problems. Hopefully the actual abuse at first hand has ceased and will not reappear with any more dealings being in a controlled setting like tribunals.

              FWIW I have seen a few disputes over years ( mostly tax) and I think you have really gone for the correct question – is this worth it overall?

              Without knowing the cost of the repair is there any low hanging fruit:

              Is the mother is likely to voluntarily stump up some of the cost of the damage from the trust if asked.

              Can the bond be kept with minimal stress and paperwork.

              If any extra money is awarded through hearings – are the tenants able to pay if they are told they have to.

              Did the extra time they stayed depend on the trust involving itself and did the damage take place before or after the trust involved itself?

              After any low hanging money is retrieved is it worth chasing a balance?

              Any slightly under employed family who would help with this?

              Other than that – the only other thing I personally felt was really useful was to have a "cutout" for contacts on the matter. Some thing like getting mail sent to a PO box and having a separate email address for any contacts and no phone calls. That way it doesn't spill all over the rest of your lives and you can then access and deal with it on a business like basis when you fell like it. (After a sufficient amount of coffee in my case)

              • Molly

                Thanks for the advice. To be honest, the thought of having to attend another hearing with the tenant present in order to pursue the damages claim is very offputting, which is why I brought it up

                As mentioned, the bond has already been allocated to us, but only covers part of the rent arrears, so is not available to offset the property damage.

                We don't make money on this rental, so although the rent arrears and financial cost of the repairs will impact on us quite considerably, I'm thinking – at present, it will be best to let it go. Just a hard financial decision to make when we are already quite stretched, but probably the right life decision.

                (Also, if we can get it clean and livable it can be a place where my mother can come so she can help out as required, and we'll look at doing the more extensive repairs to get it back to renting standard if/when she is no longer needed. So, my mother's cooking may mitigate the pain somewhat… home baking to go with that strong coffee.)

                • RedBaronCV

                  Yep I can see that attending and having to interact can be pretty awful.Overall that sort of thing isn’t a cost less exercise

                  Other than that some years ago some friends had a house and a local builder wanted some temporary housing for workers he had on a local job. Offered to ensure the place was okay when they left. Well they were delighted – he sorted everything – it was better than when they gone into the arrangement.

                  Is it or would it be possible for a short term let at a higher rate to cover the repair costs before returning to a value rental? Not ideal but at least it would possibly return a value rental to the market a little sooner? And looking ahead – good tenants can also be given a goodbye gift if the rental is 5 dollars a fortnight dearer.

                  • Molly

                    Thanks for that practical advice – after talking with my partner, I think we will take the path of less additional stress. With our current situation, needing a place for friends and family to stay may mean that the short term option is one that would work, although it goes against the grain in terms of what we have been trying to provide. It may also allow us to recover a bit financially as well, so will likely concentrate on what WILL benefit us, as opposed to what MAY.

                    (As for the gifts for good tenants, we have been able to scrape together enough for a few housewarming gifts as the long-termers have moved on. A mutual appreciation society in that respect. It's always nice to see young people move onto homes of their own, and for a while there was a daisy chain of recommendations for new tenants. This was the first in over a decade that was not a referral from a previous tenant so it has worked very well in the past.)

                    • RedBaronCV

                      Hope all goes well – good thoughts to you – look after yourselves. Now trying to word this correctly – but a short term break can mean greater benefits in the longer term and you have already given substantial help to others which I totally admire.

                      (and enjoy that mother's cooking).

                    • Shanreagh

                      Just a wee thought for the future…..perhaps think about having a property manager?

                      I interviewed several and chose one as I did not want to have to attend TT hearings and the such, working full time at a stressful job. They charge a % of the rent but in my case this was money well spent. They offer a range of options re finding tenants from do it all to – to working with your chosen tenants.

                      The firm I chose in the end was not associated with a real estate agency but one who was niche in the area I was renting and only worked in that area and rented baches as well as full term.

                    • Molly

                      Hi Shanreagh,

                      In our case, we are almost incidental landlords. It is our granny flat that is available for rent as my in-laws are both deceased. Our bedroom window is 3m away from the separate unit. Privacy – is quite good as we both have outdoor spaces and separate entrances, but was impacted on by the deliberate behaviour of the last tenant who would come outside during the early hours of the morning to yell and scream under our window.

                      We do the gardening and lawnwork – usually when the tenants are out – and are on hand to respond to any issues immediately, so the use of a property manager in this case would be superfluous.

                      It was our first – and hopefully only – attendance at a Tenancy Tribunal hearing. And as mentioned our previous experiences have all been straightforward and easy to manage. (There are some really good tenants out there.)

                      I think we'll just have to chalk it up to experience, particularly as all the evidence we had to gather for the harassment would still have had to be done by me anyway. (The rent arrears documentation was just a printout of a spreadsheet.)

                      But I can appreciate the benefit of using an effective property manager for other situations.

                • Hello Molly. We had to write off $2000 rent plus the "Do-up" after a rotten tenant. Like you we had really lovely people before that.

                  You are making the right decision. Relegate this to its true importance and put it behind you as life and energy have to be rationed, and spent on positives.

                  You appear to be a good Landlord who has struck a bad tenant. Good wishes to you on the health front, enjoy the coffee and the baking and the company of you Mum.

                  • Molly

                    Thanks Patricia. I've spoken to my partner, and he seems to be in agreement with that approach.

                    We've had a few significant events to deal with alongside my health, and it almost is a relief to decide not to do the next available step, and move on. That seems to be the most realistic and best advice so far. (We are out around $4,000 with the rental arrears (primarily due to the Covid restrictions that required a longer rental arrears period before application to the tribunal – and then the subsequent wait for the hearing), and it will be about $2,500 to repair the damage, but the thought of re-engaging without certainty of reimbursement is that it is not worth it.)

                    On the flip side, it was a very good night's sleep having an empty unit next door, so the situation has already improved immensely. wink

        • Red Blooded One 11.1.1.2

          Hi Molly, Sorry I don't have any advice for you but just to let you know not all of us reading the Standard share roblogic's snarky bitchy opinion. I hope it all works out for you so you can get back to tenanting your property in a mutually beneficial basis. Regards

            • Molly 11.1.1.2.1.1

              Doubling down, roblogic?

              What makes you think I haven't read this? or been interested in housing NZers, rental protection and commenting on it extensively on this site for years?

              Be better in your engagement.

              • roblogic

                Housing inequality is the core social problem of this country causing widespread unnecessary misery. Don't expect everyone to be polite about it. (It’s not personal; I am commenting on politics and society in general)

                • Molly

                  Stop making assumptions. My partner and I currently live – with four children in a two bedroom house, that happens to have a two-bedroom granny flat on it, that is no longer required because my in-laws are both deceased.

                  Instead of making more money by Air BnB or similar, we followed our values and offered it for rent. According to Tenancy Services, our weekly rent – which does not quite cover the proportion of the mortgage it relates to – is in the lower quartile and includes electricity, utilities and gardening.

                  As mentioned, we have had four long-term couples that have found that this low accommodation cost has allowed them to save for their first home, and have received thanks from them when they left.

                  Our last tenant, was treated with the same courtesy and respect as all our previous, even when his own behaviour was threatening and aggressive. A very stressful situation when sometimes you have to leave your children alone in the house with him right there.

                  So, roblogic, I suggest that advocating for great housing for all NZers does not require a tribal, or one-eyed view. In fact, to be solved it needs more than that.

                  I spent several years following Auckland Council’s efforts at affordable housing, and many submissions have been made in that regard.

                  I have the same disdain for exploitation whether it be landlords or tenants. Try considering another perspective, and see if you can come up with a better comment than all tenants good – all landlords bad.

          • Molly 11.1.1.2.2

            Thanks, RBO.

    • Cinny 11.2

      Molly do you have a community law place where you are? They offer free legal advice. Hope that helps and it all works out for you.

      Edit… here’s the link
      https://communitylaw.org.nz/

      • Molly 11.2.1

        Thanks, Cinny, I appreciate you taking the time.

        Unfortunately, they are unable to help as their kaupapa doesn't allow them to give advice to "employers or landlords".

        • rawsharkyeshe 11.2.1.1

          Molly .. Citizens Advice Bureau might be helpful for you .. if you're in Auckland, the Sylvia Park office is excellent and knowledgeable.

          • Molly 11.2.1.1.1

            Sylvia Park is my old stomping ground, although I am no longer living there.

            Coincidentally, my mother volunteered for years at the CAB.

            Thanks for the advice.

    • millsy 11.3

      TS contributor RedLogix is a landlord so should be able to give you some advise.

      My advise would be to cut your losses and give them a 90 day notice.

      • Molly 11.3.1

        Already gone, millsy. The Tribunal issued a termination order, and an order for repayment of rental arrears, which we have to take to the District Court to see if it will be upheld.

        The order did not include the damages to the property that were apparent when we regained access after they left in the middle of the night. For that we have to go through the whole process again. Just wondering whether it was worth it, and think that is probably is not.

    • weka 11.4

      If I've understood correctly you want the tenant to pay for damages, and you're not sure who the tenant is? I would have thought it is whoever the tenancy agreement is with, irrespective of who was paying the rent. But Tenancy Services should be able to answer this question.

      Ah, just reread. I'm assuming you would be better off financially if the trust was deemed the tenant (the actual tenant probably not having any money)?

      • Molly 11.4.1

        The tenancy agreement – is not with the trust. But on request of the tenant, our account details were sent to his mother, who paid the rent from the family trust.

        Those payments stopped when she thought he was going to be sent to jail – as she told me. In the one conversation I had with her, it became apparent that she really didn't want him back at home, and had been encouraging him to think he had grievances to take to the Tenancy Tribunal which resulted in an escalation of really aggressive behaviour on his part. Her desire to not have him return, did not consider the impact this would have on us as his landlords and neighbours, and made interactions much more difficult.

        His parents were also the employers of both the tenant and his partner who worked in their retail shop, and they were eligible for the wages subsidy for Covid, but the parents did not obtain the subsidy as far as I know and terminated employment. Seems to be a snakesnest of family issues and vehicles for tax arrangements going on, that I think – on reflection – it's best to avoid.

        I'm usually someone who methodically persists in following the correct avenues, but alongside other comments left for me on here, I think in this case, I'll let it go.

        • weka 11.4.1.1

          this makes a lot of sense, good decision I reckon. I too tend to follow through on things like this, but in this case it sounds like it's going to be very messy. I'm also finding that covid is making me figure out what really matters and where I want my time to be spent, keeping in mind that more shocks are probably on the way.

  11. The RMA is to recommended to be ditched by a report released today. A bloke said 20 seconds ago on RNZ that the RMA is "biased towards retaining the status quo".

    Retaining the status quo protects rural landscapes from inappropriate/unsightly development. What this guy clearly wants instead is legislation that will permit widespread subdivision and development of NZ's precious landscapes.

    The legislation to replace the RMA will be developed under the next (hopefully) Labour/Green government. It is yet another reason to Party Vote Green.

  12. anker 13

    If he arrived on the 18th March, that was before lockdown and so the country was still open with exceptions such as China and Iran (I think). He would have almost immediately have gone into lockdown with the rest of us.

    Be very glad to hear the results of yesterdays testing, which I hope will be reassuring.

  13. nzsage 14

    As polls swing leftwards I do wonder if a contributing factor (other than the implosion of the National party) is the influence of the younger generation.

    From my experience, the current younger generation (18-25) are significantly more politically aware and active than their predecessors. They also appear to favour the policies of progressive parties that look to address areas such as the climate control, sustainability and the environment.

    Seeing these youngsters participating in democracy warms my heart and gives me some hope for the future.

    Go youngsters!!

    (From an oldie!)

    • I Feel Love 14.1

      On RNZ Checkpoint last night they had vox pops of 18 years olds, questioning them about the upcoming election & referendums, they were incredibly well informed and very well considered views. I'll try find link.

      https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/checkpoint/audio/2018756939/first-time-voters-prove-top-of-the-class-on-election-2020-referendums

    • Just Is 14.2

      Yes, the young voters are certainly more savvy than most of us today when we were at the same age, there are still plenty of young who will vote according to their parents entrenchment of politics, but many more are now making their decisions based on their own beliefs and expectations of Govt.

      There are many political issues that young people are concerned about, about how it will effect them and their future family, real concerns of real global dangers.

      Youngsters are our future and I think this younger Generation will play a much more influential roll in the future of NZ than any time previously in our future.

      Roll on Election day.

    • woodart 14.3

      good post nzsage. think environmental awareness has had a huge impact on younger people. this will only grow. conservatives have been left behind.

  14. Muttonbird 15

    Came across this in my travels:

    Right-wing PR man Matthew Hooton told RadioLIVE Drive there is a “despicable smear campaign underway” against the National Party leader.

    “Aid and abetted by an extreme left-wing, anti-National Party journalist called Tova O’Brien, who is a disgrace to the profession and a disgrace to Newshub, and is running a personal campaign to get rid of Simon Bridges.”

    Turns out it was Matthew himself who ended up "running a personal campaign to get rid of Simon Bridges."

    And people wonder why the Nats are not trustworthy…

    https://thestandard.org.nz/is-tova-obrien-really-a-closet-leftie/

    • I Feel Love 15.1

      O'Brien is a intriguing person, she's being harangued about picking on Collins at the moment, prob just more Hootonisms.

      • Muttonbird 15.1.1

        No doubt she can be very annoying but I thought her line of questioning to Collins about her prison escapees lie was totally appropriate because she was referencing the poll question about who Kiwis trust and don't trust.

    • RedBaronCV 15.2

      Loving it:

      now remind me again who used to run smear campaigns??

      and picking fights with Tova – even better – just asking her to join any pile on.

  15. Muttonbird 16

    Question for Green voters. In the remote event of Labour being able to govern alone, what would you like to see?

    1. A full Labour/Green government with cabinet positions and Green ministers

    2. A Labour government supported by the Greens with portfolios outside cabinet for Green ministers.

    3. No Greens involvement in government.

    4. The status quo with Labour/NZF inside and Greens outside.

    • Just Is 16.2

      Muttonbird, option one is my preference, lets give as much representation in Parliament by Like minded parties and show how democracy really works to benefit more NZers.

    • woodart 16.3

      option five. a full labour green nzfirst gov, with labour holding outright power. look to the future, there will always be a centrist party, better to keep them in the tent.

      • Sacha 16.3.1

        We do not have the luxury of granting Winston another three years of blocking urgent climate action, etc. Had his chance.

    • AB 16.4

      As a human being, no.1. Strategically though, I wonder if no.3 makes sense, i.e. let Labour eat all the moderately palatable parts of National's lunch in an attempt to kill National off, and so open up a bigger space on Labour’s left.

    • Dennis Frank 16.5

      #1 would be best for Aotearoa. I could go with #2 if the PM chose it. Dunno why anyone would prefer #3 – been there, done that, too long! #4 would be workable still, but seems most unlikely.

    • Tiger Mountain 16.6

      Well Muttonbird…

      1. but…
      I would really like to see 1.(a) whereby the Green vote is strong enough to make it obvious that they should be included in the Govt. and Cabinet and with Ministers.

      There are enough fantasists at the top of Labour who could be very tempted to go for “one Labour to rule them all” if they did actually have the numbers to govern alone. Technically they could of course, but would that be a good idea really?

    • gsays 16.7

      1.

      The Greens have done their time on the sideline.

      While on the periphery they have made some great impacts: Tenancy standards, the charging (or not) of returning kiwi, water quality awareness etc.

      Imagine the progressive change that can occur with their young caucus, if they had ministerial positions.

      Dare to dream.

    • mary_a 16.8

      Has to be No 1 Muttonbird. It’s time for the Greens to be fully included in a government with Labour, with some Green Ministers.

    • Cardassian 16.9

      #1 but if nzfirst made it back in I'd invite them in too. Better to keep them close than to push them towards the nats.

  16. I Feel Love 17

    Collins, Streisanding all over the place, yesterday was to hammer home the Nats are down in the polls, now she's reminding us one of her candidates impersonated Hitler (which I saw someone on Twitter calling out those criticising him as "cancelling our culture"!). You'd think she was new to this thing, isn't it best to just quickly move on to the next shambles? Actually, every time she opens her mouth something bizarre comes out, "life isn't fair" ha! & her comedy reminds me more of Andy Kaufman than David Brent.

    • Muttonbird 17.1

      She looks way out of her depth.

      She's always said clever stupid stuff but that was at the rate of once or twice a month. Now we are subject to it multiple times a day it looks completely deranged.

      • I Feel Love 17.1.1

        Yeah, a bit of Muller, must've just assumed she could do it, without really realising what it actually takes to lead. I heard an interview a few weeks ago (she's only been leader a few weeks!) where they asked her had she demanded total loyalty from her party, and she said no, she's just told them to stop leaking if they want to win. What I got out of that statement was not leadership, more mutual self interest. It's very laissez faire leadership, which I was quite surprised about. She even said about the teen candidate, that she hadn't spoken to him about his silliness.

        • woodart 17.1.1.1

          collins is coming across,as stressed and possibly shellshocked at how hard leadership can be. much easier to be a nasty shadow in the background,than be out in the spotlight fulltime.

  17. Sacha 18

    People who object to nazi behaviour are nasty bullies, says Judith https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/422266/national-mp-subject-of-nasty-dirty-bullying-after-apparent-hitler-imitation-emerges-judith-collins

    "I thought it was a shocking attack on a young man who has really grown up. The fact he went straight away yesterday and apologised for his mistake at 14 I thought showed immense maturity and I would like to say to him look don't worry, we've got your back," Collins said.

    • Just Is 18.1

      A contradiction of statements.

      Nazi's are known Bullies

      Those who reject Nazism are decent thinking individuals.

    • I Feel Love 18.2

      "Stop cancelling our culture"!!! (sarc) but a comment I saw on Twitter regarding this egg.

  18. Ad 19

    Big shoutout to Green Party New Lynn candidate Steve Abel, and to Mels Barton and the team from the Tree Council, who have fought to gain some temporary reprieve for a stand of native trees in Avondale. Top work so far team.

    https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/activists-celebrate-after-worksafe-halts-tree-felling-contentious-auckland-site?auto=6175996615001

    This is not over by a long shot, but it's excellent campaign timing.

    Looking forward to more candidates of minor parties seizing upon local issues like this and gaining some traction.

  19. Muttonbird 20

    Collins' policy to use Kiwisaver for start-ups roundly savaged by…er…everyone.

    https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/money/2020/07/national-s-proposal-for-kiwisaver-to-be-used-for-starting-a-business-is-risky-experts-say.html

    She also said she'd open a bubble to Rarotonga within a week. Perhaps we can all use our Kiwisaver for that too.

    • millsy 20.1

      Waiving the companies office registration fee is probably a good idea.

      • Muttonbird 20.1.1

        Ok, but that isn't a very onerous cost. New Zealand is also already ranked at the top for ease of starting business.

        The crazy part is that 2/3rds of new businesses fail before two years so there's all that money wasted for no future return. It's very risky while Kiwisaver was set up to reduce risk to future generations.

  20. "I never thought Labour would be more promising than National on RMA reform, but right now that's where we are," Seymour said.

    Labour today are cosying up to David Seymour and his gun-friendly friends.

    Any legislation that is attacked by both Collins and Seymour must have considerable merit, yet Labour proposes to ditch it.

  21. logie97 22

    Thinking out loud.

    Rarotonga is desperate for tourism and much needed currency.

    What say they were to invite our government to set up a MASH type facility there, with perhaps the navy providing an "at anchor" support ship nearby, and all returning New Zealanders are landed there instead. They can do their 14 day quarantine in comfort, and those testing positive can be looked after at MASH or on the hospital ship. The New Zealand tax payer funds it, and those who are then safe to travel, carry on to our shores and we can be assured that no-one is going to bust out and cause risk here.

  22. Muttonbird 23

    Oh dear. The NZ Jewish Council are "not at all" offended by William Wood's Hitler impersonation. Seems you cannot be anti-semitic at the age of 14. What age then is the cut off?

    Perhaps the NZ Jewish Council could do a list of what is and is not offensive to them because this gentile is very confused.

    https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2020/07/nz-jewish-council-not-at-all-offended-by-national-s-william-wood-hitler-impersonation.html

    Methinks the NZ Jewish Council are merely trying to diffuse trouble for their party, The National Party.

    • I Feel Love 23.1

      I won't link but I did remember a bit of furore about this, it's on Kiwiblog subject "dotcom_and_mein_kampf" (Farrar is shocked!!!!), I actually remember some guy from the NZ Jewish Council defending Dotcom saying he too had a copy of Mein Kampf but must be my dodgy memory.

    • gsays 23.2

      A couple of questions for you:

      Do you think Wood was being anti-semetic?

      Were you offended by the revelation?

      I know I would have done something similar at that age (TBH at an older age too), mainly because it would be taboo or controversial. Without any real idea of why it was offensive.

      Not to detract from your point about the Jewish Council being cozy with the Nats.

      • I Feel Love 23.2.1

        Myself? No, I just thought he was an egg. I was a bit more aware at that age myself, yet of course didn't have social media (but an Action Man that had an SS uniform, them were the days) , but this isn't an isolated thing with this kid is it? It also seems a bit unfair for this kid to have his mistakes as he grows up public, if he becomes an MP. He's got his 20s to go, and the fact 4 women were overlooked for this position is also a story. Also, he's wanting to become an MP, should his age matter? As an excuse? He's either capable, or he's not.

        • gsays 23.2.1.1

          “but this isn’t an isolated thing with this kid is it? ”
          I see this non-event in isolation.

          Unless you know something I don't.

      • Muttonbird 23.2.2

        No to both questions. But I would have thought one must apply the same evaluation of this sort of action regardless political leaning, and to a lesser extent age. Like I said at what age does it become unacceptable.

        Juliet Moses believes his actions were acceptable but I hope she also explained that impersonating Hitler is wrong.

        And I get the feeling young Wood is somewhat beyond his years so at age 14 he will have known exactly what he was doing…

        • gsays 23.2.2.1

          Thanks for your response.

          As to an age of when you become responsible, 16, 18, 20, 21..

          I know I didn't grow up till I was 30. By that I mean not lying, my word became my bond, stopped being self centered.

          With most things, only intentions matter.

          I do not accept at 14 "he will have known exactly what he was doing…" especially in the context of being a candidate for a party floundering in an electorate in the spotlight for another candidate's short-comings.

          • Muttonbird 23.2.2.1.1

            This wasn't an average 14 year old. He's some sort of debating champ and won National Party candidacy at 17. Clearly bright, used to mixing with adults and full of experience at a certain level.

            The stuff that drove him to do a 'Heil Hitler' and to fool around with MAGA hats is still there and no doubt will resurface at a point in the not too distant future.

            He has chosen a tough road, the political world is not a forgiving place.

  23. Ad 24

    Here's a great upcoming test:

    Is there any relationship between Facebook profile and hits, and getting more votes?

    TVNZ News implies there might be:

    https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/love-hearts-and-frowny-faces-stats-reveal-new-zealands-politicians-faring-facebook

    Chloe Swarbrick on this count should be the leader of the Green Party – will it be enough to keep them above 5%? Does Auckland Central really vote by Facebook?

    Next stop: Trial By TikTok

    • weka 24.1

      Did they imply that? or did they just pay a fee to a FB owned company to count social media scores? No agenda there FB or TVNZ.

    • gsays 24.2

      Well we already seem to have policy via Twitter.

      Twitter is like polling but it is instant without paying the pollsters, looking at you Farrar.

  24. Eco Maori 25

    Kia Ora

    Te Ao Maori Marama.

    There is no equality in Aotearoa are there any pakeha whanau being treated like mine YEA RIGHT.

    Yes more needs to be invested in our Wai plants and the waste treatment plants.

    I say minority cultures are being treated better by this government than the last few.

    Pukana the captions are off.

    Ka kite Ano

  25. Eco Maori 26

    Kia Ora

    Newshub.

    That's great a mission to Mars to collect samples.

    Yes we need a sugar tax.

    Ka kite Ano

  26. Eco Maori 27

    Kia Ora

    Te Ao Marama.

    That's is cool to see a honey processing facility being built in Te Tairawhiti.

    Its great to see Iwi helping their Tangata with Kai and other resources.

    Ka kite Ano

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