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Open Mike 29/07/2017

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, July 29th, 2017 - 67 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

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67 comments on “Open Mike 29/07/2017”

  1. BM 1

    After reading this it’s not hard to come to the conclusion that the MOU is dead and the Greens are now charting their own course.

    https://thedailyblog.co.nz/2017/07/29/escape-velocity-the-greens-rocket-out-of-labours-gravity/

    • Ed 1.1

      Agreed.

      • BM 1.1.1

        Do you believe that the current path the Greens have taken has party wide consensus or do you think it’s what Trotter said that it’s being lead by the ex -Alliance wing within the party.

        • Ed 1.1.1.1

          I do not know.
          I am aware, however, that Metiria’s actions have fired up many of many friends to vote for the Greens.

        • Robert Guyton 1.1.1.2

          BM is showing an intense in the Green Party right now; potential supporter?
          It might take another courageous action by The Green Party; Metiria in particular seems to have captured BM’s imagination (and perhaps, heart) to bring him across and I feel confident there’s more to come from them and certainly, I sense BM’s stirring. He’ll be welcomed with open arms.

          • BM 1.1.1.2.1

            Lol, yeah that’s the one.

            I just have a sneaking suspicion we’re about to see the Greens split in two,
            Turei on one side and Shaw on the other.

            Quite a high chance you might see the Shaw led faction integrating with Gareth Morgans Top party and becoming the new face of the greens movement while the Turei faction reverts back into the Alliance party.

            • Robert Guyton 1.1.1.2.1.1

              “I just have a sneaking suspicion…”
              Lol, yeah that’s the one.

              • weka

                Lolz, Crosby Textor scraping the bottom of the barrel when that’s all they’ve got.

                Gollum calling Sam a sneak comes to mind.

            • lprent 1.1.1.2.1.2

              I think that the likelihood of that happening is up there with Don Brash becoming the leader of the National Party again.

              On facebook someone pointed out that Don Brash appeared to be agreeing with NZ First and some of its more covertly racist supporters (which like the spinoff author, I have never seen when reporting on their conferences). My only thought about that had the words “kiss of death” in it.

              My thoughts on your idea of a green split has the phrases “wishful thinking” and “politically naive” in it.

            • Psycho Milt 1.1.1.2.1.3

              I just have a sneaking suspicion we’re about to see the Greens split in two,
              Turei on one side and Shaw on the other.

              It’s important to distinguish between “sneaking suspicion” and “wildly implausible wishful thinking” when you’re commenting – helps avoid looking silly.

            • SpaceMonkey 1.1.1.2.1.4

              Dream on BM

    • weka 1.2

      “After reading this it’s not hard to come to the conclusion that the MOU is dead and the Greens are now charting their own course.”

      Only if you don’t understand what the MoU is, or what MMP is. Or you believe that the GP will get enough votes on their own to govern.

      Or you’re a right wing wind up merchant invested in undermining the left by spreading bullshit wherever you can.

      • marty mars 1.2.1

        Umm I pick the last one. Man this lad shows his ignorance about politics and the greens every time he comments.

      • “…it’s not hard to come to the conclusion…”
        This is a truism from BM; he finds it’s very, very easy to come to conclusions, based on fluff that collects in his head, the thinnest of ideas that everyone else would struggle to entertain. “James is Metiria’s love child!”, BM concludes, having seen the two of them wearing matching Green Party rosettes!. The Green Party and Greenpeace are the same person: an inescapable conclusion reached by BM after noticing a similarity in their titles, though he was unable to pin down exactly what it is they have in common; the twin-“e’s”? The big “G”? Despite the struggle, BM still had no trouble coming to the conclusion.

      • greywarshark 1.2.3

        That’s a description to frame.
        …you’re a right wing wind up merchant invested in undermining the left by spreading bullshit wherever you can.>/i>

    • Sacha 1.3

      Gee, wonder what Colonel Trotter makes of Willie Jackson making up an unsanctioned policy on the telly for Greens to give up Maori electorate seats to Labour?: http://www.newshub.co.nz/home/shows/2017/07/interview-willie-jackson.html

  2. “Ignited by the fiery exhaust of the Green’s policy rocket”

    Go Greens, you incendiary things!

    • OncewasTim 2.1

      As opposed to dowsed by the watery farts of National policy

    • greywarshark 2.2

      Flaming hell, what next!

      • The decrypter 2.2.1

        Who knows?-what does dowsed mean?

        • Psych nurse 2.2.1.1

          It means to find water usually with the aid of a forked stick.

          • The decrypter 2.2.1.1.1

            Crikey, it gets worse. Robert you could please tell me where james fits into all this,=-if he does at all.

          • Robert Guyton 2.2.1.1.2

            Which immediately brings to mind the question:
            “Did you hear about the constipated mathematician?
            Worked it out with a pencil.”

          • greywarshark 2.2.1.1.3

            Cripes if National are working on this skill it will be something really useful in a few years as our normal water course dry up through irrigation up the river, or are drawn off to be bottled and sent off to wealthier or other
            luckier countries which can access our pure water while we are left with the rest. So National and their dowsing will be a leading professional group.

        • OncewasTim 2.2.1.2

          Dowsed? Doused?
          It was such a base working class comment anyway dontcha know.
          Plus we all know Gnats don’t fart anyway

  3. Morrissey 3

    And sadly, instead of countering this madness, much of the Democratic Party’s “leadership” spends its time chasing the chimera of Russian “meddling”.

    [TheStandard: A moderator moved this comment to Open Mike as being off topic or irrelevant in the post it was made in. Be more careful in future.]

    • lprent 3.1

      It is pretty irrelevent for the democrats (and for the post that you dropped it into as a diversion) – yes.

      But you are completely deluded if you think that it didn’t happen, and more importantly that it won’t happen again.

      Now I am sure that you don’t want to hear this, but you’ll note that congress has in the last few days in a rare bit of bipartisanship gone and extended the sanctions against Russia for this and Russia’s invasion of Crimea and Eastern Ukraine using proxy forces. While they we at it, they also made it harder for Trump to use any executive powers to reduce them. That is a pretty clear signal about who and what the senators and congress members think went on.

      From what I understand, all western nations (including here) and those on Russian borders are gearing themselves up to deal with similar attacks and political interference in the future. It was bad enough when the CIA was doing this kind of juvenile crap back in the 1950s and 60s and getting to deal with those fuckwits then. But the Russians lack even the CIA level of finesse. Much like you do.

      I think that the sanctions need to be increased and deepened until Russia decides that doing this plausible deniability crap is counter productive regardless how well it plays out for their internal audience and gullible fools elsewhere.

      • Poission 3.1.1

        Do you think congress will apply sanctions on Russia by banning Russian exports of weapons grade uranium to the US? or prohibiting the import of Russian heavy lift rockets which are required to lift us military satellites into orbit?

        The effects of sanctions by the us congress do not effect us companies they effect European countries and they are not happy ie

        On Wednesday, German Foreign Ministry warned that Berlin “could not accept” the US using sanctions against Russia as a tool of industrial policy.

        http://www.dw.com/en/new-us-russia-sanctions-bill-risks-eu-anger/a-39867060

      • Morrissey 3.1.2

        There is no evidence that Russia had any influence on the election debacle of 2016.
        If you choose to accept the assurances of the likes of liars like James Clapper and his colleagues, well good on you. You’re in the distinguished company of such intellectual luminaries and moral exemplars as John McCain and Boris Johnson.

        I agree with you that Russia’s actions in the Ukraine are reprehensible and criminal, but if there are to be sanctions against Russia, then what measures do you think should be taken against the United States, Britain and France for what they have done and are continuing to do in Iraq, Afghanistan, Yemen, Libya, and Syria?

        • lprent 3.1.2.1

          So? I don’t need any particular evidence to form an opinion. I only need the words of Putin who has as good as admitted the attacks on Crimea, eastern Ukraine, several cyber attacks in the baltic countries and the “private citizens” who attacked the US election.

          You forgot several other overt power plays by China in the South China Sea and a quite a few other plays. But the point about the US, China, Britian, France, and just about everyone else apart from the Pakistani and Israeli intelligence is that they tend to do their shit in public where it can bee seen and discussed. The US was probably involved with the Israelis in targeting the Stux worm into Iran

          Russia is the only significiant power that still does much of its shit work covertly..

          Quite simply you’d have to be a moron or a completely gullible fool to not look back over the history of Russian interactions over the last decade with upfront denials, and subsequent admission of maybe being involved to not see the pattern of their behaviour.

          That is why they need more sanctions because the fuckwits seem to need to keep the costs of trying fuck around covertly pointed out to them. Like my handling of trolls, I’d have exactly the same view for any other idiot nations or politicians who aren’t up front about what they are doing.

          • Bill 3.1.2.1.1

            The pattern of their behaviour or the pattern of ‘western’ accusations? Which of the two has more connection to reality?

            You know I’m of of those supposedly “gullible fools” you adore…or maybe I’m one of those deeply cynical bastards.

            Anyway. The sooner the USA bans beds that don’t come all the way down to the floor, the better 😉

          • tc 3.1.2.1.2

            Yup the cyber security experts all seem to agree its Russian funded attacks on ukraines govt departments and its power grid. They’re determined to weaken the Ukraine by all measures possible.

            It’s suggested this is putins way of saying to the US ‘look what we can do’ as they’ve been effectively proving out their malware and techniques for power network disruption which has the US rightly nervous. Because that same malware has already been found in US power grids.

      • Xanthe 3.1.3

        Here is a rather more informed view of the “russian hack”
        https://consortiumnews.com/2017/07/24/intel-vets-challenge-russia-hack-evidence/

        Frankly i am surprised at your naievity on this matter,

        • locus 3.1.3.1

          Xanthe… that was such a dismissive and arrogant comment I thought I’d go and read the source by the “independent forensic investigator.” It says that the file transfer was around 23 MB/s and “unlikely to have been downloaded over the internet” https://theforensicator.wordpress.com/guccifer-2-ngp-van-metadata-analysis/

          This does not mean that Russian computer experts weren’t involved in the theft of the DNC data. It just suggests that the files may have been downloaded directly off the LAN so the theft may have been via access to the LAN.

          Notwithstanding that, LTE is now pervasive across each of the four major carrier networks in the USA. Best ‘average’ download speeds are around 22 MB/s.

          I wonder what lprent’s view is on this?

      • So, you’d be happy for sanctions to be placed upon the US and other members of the Five-Eyes because of their meddling in a sovereign nations democracy?

        The espionage order for “Non Ruling Political Parties and Candidates Strategic Election Plans” which targeted Francois Holland, Marine Le Pen and other opposition figures requires obtaining opposition parties’ strategies for the election; information on internal party dynamics and rising leaders; efforts to influence and implement political decisions; support from local government officials, government elites or business elites; views of the United States; efforts to reach out to other countries, including Germany, U.K., Libya, Israel, Palestine, Syria & Cote d’Ivoire; as well as information about party and candidate funding.

        Or is it only the Russian’s meddling that should get such sanctions because they lack even the CIA level of finesse?

      • Marcus Morris 3.1.5

        I am not sure I would call Noam Chomsky a gullible fool – his is a very interesting take on the situation and deserves some attention. He believes that entente with Russia is the one good thing that Trump has achieved.

        • Morrissey 3.1.5.1

          Sadly, Marcus, there is an element on this normally excellent blog which is prone to accepting anything it is told by those in “authority”. Terms like “gullible fool” are routinely used to write off the likes of Noam Chomsky, Glenn Greenwald, Laura Poitras, Jeremy Scahill, Robert Fisk, John Pilger and anyone else who dares to contradict the (evidence-free) assertions of the CIA and the GCHQ and their host of loyal media megaphones.

          Vide….

          So? I don’t need any particular evidence to form an opinion.

          Open Mike 29/07/2017

  4. JanM 4

    Watching Lisa Owen’s interview with Willie Jackson this morning was an exercise in self control (as in not turning off the tellie and run screaming from the room). Determined and aggressive questioning may have a point when someone’s trying to hide something, but what did she think she was up to this time? He was perfectly willing to answer her in full – and the fact that she didn’t let him complete a whole sentence rather demonstrated that she was more interested in kicking up a storm than in acquiring knowledge.
    Yuck – she was like an old crow, pecking and pointing and the more open and reasonable he got the worse she got! It was just an exercise in point scoring. That’s not journalism

    • OncewasTim 4.1

      Just like last week. I’m afraid Lisa Owen has succumbed to Lisa Owen.
      After all, we’re all more interested in Lisa Owen and how clever she thinks she is than we are in the person being interviewed.
      She’s a legend

    • Red 4.2

      What’s her been an older women got to do with it re your reference to an old crow, ageism sexism in one hit

      [Like an old crow is not the same as is an old crow. Seeing as how I’m sure you’re perfectly aware of that, I’m taking you’re comment as deliberate shit stirring. Come back tomorrow to discover the length of your ban.] – Bill

      [Playing silly buggers and disregarding a ban was really stupid. Permanent.] – Bill

      • Red 4.2.1

        Spitting hairs bill, unfortunately Wont be able to make your announcement tomorrow but I hope you enjoy the power and suspense

        • In Vino 4.2.1.1

          Red – please try not to make literate people wince. The difference between ‘been’ and ‘being’ really counts. Against you.

  5. Jilly Bee 5

    Looking at this headline in the Herald this morning brought back a memory from my distant past – I probably was quite young at the time, but living not all that far from Taupo there was a fair bit of angst at the time about how Keith Holyoake purchased this property. It’s obviously been an ‘astute’ purchase as the family now stands to make a very sizable return on the sale, when it happens. The name Comber also rings a bell – I think, and I stand to be corrected that he is/was Kiwi Keith’s son in law and was also a Nat MP back in the day. http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11896259

    • JanM 5.1

      Yes, Ken Comber was Keith Holyoake’s son-in-law and also an MP. Goodness – I’ve just looked him up – he’s been dead since 1998 – didn’t even reach 60!

      • The decrypter 5.1.1

        Seem to remember kiwi keiths tar sealed road to property when every one else was driving on dirt roads,–nothings changed.

        • Jilly Bee 5.1.1.1

          Ahhh, that’s it The decrypter – there was something murky about that property.

    • Gabby 5.2

      Maybe another instant kiwi citizen has made an offer she can’t refuse.

  6. Tautoko Mangō Mata 6

    The election is really highlighting the deep divisions in society. It is quite distressing to consider the lack of mutual respect between different groups of people. (I am certainly as guilty as anyone of heaping abuse on members of the current government.) I also think it is in the interest of Tory governments to maintain these divisions lest their voters who ask the question “What will I get out of a government?” instead ask the question “What does the community need from a government?”

    The difficulty is how to reach the hearts of Tory voters and raise their awareness of the human plight of others. Most of them have got, somewhere, deep down, a sense of decency and fair play. I am sure that Metiria tapped into a few of those. However the rich white male who seems to have more regard for his dog than most other people is a harder nut to crack. My small experience with this type seems to show that the environment is perhaps the only common ground of agreement as long as the word “green” never comes in to the conversation. There seems to be little understanding of the merits of our country bothering to make any effort on global warming,

    I have been picking up plastic and other rubbish of my local beach on a daily basis for about 2 years. My contribution is no doubt insignificant when considered on a global scale, but I know that if this was done on every beach in the world, it would make a difference. We need to somehow reach the “why bother” people on an emotional level if we are to create a more pleasant, caring and unified society.

    • gsays 6.1

      Hi ttm, walking behind a kitchen manager one day as a young chef, he stooped to pick up an onion skin and put it in the bin.
      That act had a profound effect on me.
      Leaving a rugby match many moons later, someone dropped a program, instead of remonstrating, I picked it up and put it in the bin.
      Hoping it may have an effect on someone behind me.

      Long winded I know, but don’t under estimate your actions on the beach.

  7. Penny Bright 7

    PAKISTAN SUPREME COURT ‘SACKS’ PAKISTAN PRIME MINISTER FOR CORRUPTION!

    (Imagine our NZ Supreme Court doing that! 🙂

    https://www.thenews.com.pk/latest/219619-Panama-leaks-Nawaz-Sharif-survives-as-SC-refers-graft-case-to-NAB

    Pakistan plunges into uncertainty as PM Nawaz Sharif ousted

    ISLAMABAD: Supreme Court on Friday disqualified Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif from public office over long-running corruption allegations, a decision that ousted him from the premiership for the third time.

    The ruling saw political uncertainty take hold in Pakistan once again, with Cabinet dissolved and the country left without a sitting prime minister.

    As the verdict was announced in Islamabad, hundreds of opposition supporters in the capital and in northwestern Peshawar rushed into the street handing out sweets, beating drums, and chanting “Go Nawaz Go” in celebration.

    But in Lahore, capital of Sharif´s power base of Punjab province, sporadic protests broke out, with his supporters burning tyres, blocking streets and chanting “We don´t accept this decision”.

    General elections are scheduled for next year, but Sharif now falls short of becoming the first premier to complete a full five-year term.

    The allegations against the prime minister spiralled from the Panama Papers leak last year, which sparked a media frenzy over the lavish lifestyles and luxury London property portfolio of the Sharif dynasty.

    Those claims prompted an investigation which said there was a “significant disparity” between the family´s income and lifestyle, and unearthed fresh claims over Sharif´s links to companies based in the United Arab Emirates.
    ….”

    • Gabby 7.1

      We may have a buyer for the Holyoake place.

    • Ad 7.2

      Don’t ask for what you wish for.

      Not a single Pakistani Prime Minister has actually left office by being voted out.

      That is no measure of a good democracy.

      No doubt his family was corrupt. They should pay ill-gotten gains back.

      But now, as usual, the Pakistani Army will get ready to stage the usual coup, and usurp the power of the ordinary person to vote their governments in.

      Courts should not rule over democratic mandates like this.

      • Jilly Bee 7.2.1

        Watching Newshub tonight, it seem as if Imran Khan may get his long held wish to become Prime Minister of Pakistan. God/Allah only knows how long his tenure will be before he in turn gets turfed out.

  8. greywarshark 8

    Tomorrow morning RNZ Wallace Chapman:

    8.35 a.m. Bill Mitchell: modern monetary theory
    An emerging school of economics, called modern monetary theory, says
    government surpluses can be a bad thing and a country with a fiat currency can never run out of money. Professor of Economics Bill Mitchell explains how that can work.

  9. greywarshark 9

    Nuclear power in the Pacific – is this going to help them?

    http://www.radionz.co.nz/international/pacific-news/335990/iaea-signs-deal-with-pacific-community
    The International Atomic Energy Agency has signed a deal with the Pacific Community or SPC to provide nuclear technology to the Pacific region.
    This was announced in Noumea by the head of the agency Yukiya Amano and follows the formal signing of an agreement in Vienna last month.

    Mr Amano said such technology was effective in a range of fields, such as health, agriculture or the environment….
    [The community’s deputy director Cameron Diver] says nuclear technology could be applied to improve soil quality, in the fight against cancer and to trace marine pollution….

    Also in attendance was the French overseas minister Annick Girardin who pushed for France’s further integration into the region.

  10. greywarshark 10

    There was a NZRadio report about 6 pm today on Tagata o Te Moana 30 odd minutes report, on the inability of Pacific Islands to cope with plastic. When some have disasters like hurricanes and need water it arrives in plastic bottles but no agency then takes those away again. There is no place or way to handle this rubbish. They have been known to collect them from one side of an island where plastic has accumulated, and been taken to the other side and dumped back in the water again.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Pacific_garbage_patch
    and
    Heat wave
    https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms16101
    and
    Killing Oz Barrier Reef
    https://nuclear-news.net/category/1-nuclear-issues/environment-1-nuclear-issues/oceans/
    and
    Oil deals with Russia and Exon and Trump?

    and
    http://www.nhm.ac.uk/discover/oceans-under-the-microscope.html
    Jul 21, 2017 – Around 95% of the Earth’s oceans are still unexplored – in fact, we know less about the deep sea than we do about space. But although vast swathes of the …
    and …
    https://www.sciencedaily.com/news/earth_climate/oceanography/
    and
    Leatherback turtles and plastic
    https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/03/090315224258.htm
    and
    Capturing the spectrum
    https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/07/170711220514.htm
    and
    Worried about cigarette smoke in the car – rush hour worse.
    https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/07/170721135331.htm

  11. Marcus Morris 11

    Yesterday I made a comment in the thread re rail transport and I made the claim that the Government was in the pocket of the Road Transport Forum. During this morning’s Q and A session Dr Raymond Miller from Auckland University went even further. He said that the “little known lobby group” has been led since its inception in 1992 by former Transport Ministers. It was also pointed out that the two biggest truck operators in the country (Mainfreight and Toll) don’t actually belong to the forum because their companies are integrated with rail. A further revelation was that the proposed “East West” corridor in Auckland is the least justifiable, the most expensive and the least cost effective of the ten options the government considered. All of this should be hammered out by all parties opposed to the current government over the next eight weeks. We are being led by a bunch of charlatans.

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