Meanwhile…….in South Auckland a garage/sleepout burned to the ground as scores of gang members partied hard, seemingly uncaring that in destructive, drunken disorder one of their number had caused the blaze.
The Minister for Spoiled White Brats has expressed concern –
“These people seem never to work…..someone else provides all their needs…….and then they strut their indolence and entitlement on Instagram !”
Or ShonKey is obsessed with getting publicity in whatever way he can – even to the extent of using his own family to do so ! (No other PM in NZ has ever used their family members the way ShonKey does. Its disgraceful!)
Have a look at the family publicity for your namesake Norman some time.
His wife had her own little column in the Woman’s Weekly. Dead boring trivia that was dropped as soon as Norm died.
Then he was succeeded by his son as MP. Very successful that was if I remember correctly.
Trust Trollwyn to conflate a column in the Womens’ Weekly 43 years ago with the front page of a major daily exercised by notions of a fabulous ‘New Camelot’.
Some ratshit perspective you have there Trollwyn. Was Barbara Hutton your mummy ?
In what way is it “trolling” to point out that the following statement, made by Jenny Kirk is at least arguably untrue?
“No other PM in NZ has ever used their family members the way ShonKey does.”
Other PMs have most definitely done worse, haven’t they? Particularly as you have nor reason to say that Key is in any way involved in what the Herald chooses to publish. Do you really think that Key is responsible for everything that happens?
Why is there so much irrational antipathy to the PM. I thought the opinions about Helen Clark in her day were way over the top but the comments about Key are even worse.
“I thought the opinions about Helen Clark in her day were way over the top but the comments about Key are even worse.”
lol.
I think you forget how daft things got. Books written and pushed by main RW blogs about Calrks fake marriage and quest to destroy the bedrocks of socety coz lesbian, ‘Helengrad’, etc.
It was a troll who made the brazenly false claim about Kelvin Davis, Serco and Corrections about ten days ago, which said troll has not yet acknowledged nor apologised for.
Today……different topic same troll. If ya think Womans’ Weekly 43 years ago really equates to Mr E! Channel and surly offspring……Wow !
I did read some of them. Believe it or not but the Woman’s Weekly used to be a very good magazine. My wife used to get it in those days.
It turned to total rubbish 30 odd years ago though. They had an editor named Jean Wishart for about 30 years from about 1952 to about 1985. She was unmarried, lived with her mother and apparently had no social life. She had an infallible idea of what New Zealand woman wanted to read though and almost every woman at the time read it. It was also a very advanced mag in its views, being one of the first to publish on abortion and so on.
At its peak, during her reign, it had a circulation of about 250,000.
The columns Ruth Kirk wrote were crap though.
As far as I’m concerned if Key uses his own family for publicity and/or members of his family use him for publicity stunts, then those members are ripe for public judgement when they so deserve.
Max Key is a spoiled brat who needs a big stick poked up him and soon. His ambition is to be a Billionaire. What else need be said.
Little Max obviously got his values from his parents – kids usually do – so if Max’s one ambition in life is to be a billionaire, it says a lot about what is of prime importance to his father I would think! Empty vessels! Sad for Key and his son that they can’t take it with them when they depart this mortal coil!
If his ambition is to be a billionaire you certainly can’t say he is not aiming high.
My ambition at that age wasn’t nearly so great. I simply wanted to be like Janis Joplin and to have a Mercedes. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7tGuJ34062s
Mind you in those days a billion was a lot of money.
I am not sure you completely understood joplin. But you and young Key, generations apart, share something which for me lies at the root of why our system fails our most vulnerable. You both strive for a thing, a symbol of wealth as though it equates to success, so people know you are important. What a waste of potential.
Gosh, are you sure?
How could I have been so stupid?
Did I need you and Tracey to explain it to me?
Don’t be such a dick you silly little man.
I suppose that next you’ll want to explain to me that Das Kapital isn’t the script for a Marx Brother’s movie.
I most definitely understood Janis Tracey. The only thing I have never understood is why she, and so many others her age overdosed on Heroin.
Doesn’t it worry you that people can’t tell the difference between:
the bits where you’re pretending to be stupid for comedic effect; and
the bits where you try to make a serious point?
To answer you seriously.
Not much. I don’t think people like Gangnam and some others are really as silly as they often seem. Sometimes, just occasionally, they do get things but then they like to pretend they don’t.
Besides I cannot, with the best intentions in the world, get the hang of the smiling faces and so on so it isn’t that easy to highlight it.. And yes I know where the explanation is. I shall have to get a seven year old to explain it to me though.
He has got the first step out of the way. Be born to rich parents. After all it is making the first million that is the hardest.
I rather prefer the similar story about the patron saint of Paris, St Denis. He was being led off to his place of execution when the Roman soldier decided he didn’t want to waste any more time and decapitated him a couple of miles before the designated spot. If you believe in miracles you may accept the story that he picked up his head and continued on the journey.
Of that feat it was said that
“The distance doesn’t matter; it is only the first step that is the most difficult”.
On the other hand I really cannot get in the slightest bit interested in young Max. Thank goodness the Dom/Post doesn’t waste ink on him. He has got enough going on not to be abused by people who only dislike him because of who his father is.
Very few people are billionaires. There’s a huge amount of luck involved, but also you basically have to start and run your own company. Max has no real barriers to starting and running his own company; the fact that he hasn’t done so already, if he truly is set on being a billionaire, shows that he doesn’t really have what it takes.
True . He is 20 according to Google, the age Gates was when Microsoft was founded.
On the other hand he may not be Bill Gates. Paul Allan was all of 22 when they started I believe.
However the rest of what you say is spot on. You need much more than simply an attitude of I want to be rich and I deserve it. Poor little bugger. He’s always going to be compared with his father. Not quite like being J D Rockefeller JUNIOR but it might feel like that.
Becoming and staying a billionaire inherently hurts many people and causes huge amounts of damage as the only way to do so is to steal from as many people as possible while encouraging massive over use of resources.
Too late. The space he takes in news columns could be used publicising the real plight, and treatment of, the vulnerable, instead of championing a self indulgent and mostly unattainable lifestyle.
Anne. lol Just saw photo of young MaxiKey relaxing in string hammock. Looks like has a stick uphim. Hate to see him when he is Not relaxed. Actually feel a little big sorry for the wee boy. For God’s sake, what is our media coming to. Angry!!
Had another of many FFS moments I’m having at present, regarding FJK and the irrelevant fruit of his loins!
Who gives a big rat’s what mini me Key is doing anyway? NZH seems to give him plenty of attention though, at the expense of the real news I’d say. On whose orders I wonder? The “puppeteer” perhaps?
Heh, the Max articles… shows something is very wrong/sick in our politics and media, maybe just society in general. Although there’s still plenty of good people out there improving society in areas that matter in real life.
So Shipley thinks it’s time to change the flag: “Do they need need someone else to speak for them or can we as New Zealanders speak for ourselves ? I expect to speak for myself,” Shipley said. (Today’s SST pg5).
She will be disappointed if we cling to something that’s “got a dubious past in it’s origin and speaks to a time, where, frankly, it is completely irrelevant today”.
I would have thought her “young spirited, fleet-footed” nation might like to have a wider discussion about cutting ties to the anachronistic and irrelevant monarchy and (again) ditching an honours system based on ties to Britain and our colonial past.
Interestingly nowhere in this “piece” is she referred to as “Dame” – just “former prime minister Jenny Shipley”. Why is that?
Perhaps because the logic disconnect might be even more apparent?
Guyon on the Nation panel could not imagine a reason why the current policy towards kiwis in oz was bad. Yet magnificent debated the nuances of Keys survival.
Strange that nobody pulls up the Liberal Australian party on its undermining the free trade between us, as risks and costs force kiwis living there and others, to be mindful of how easily they could be exposed, by losing employees or family members to extradition, or having to carry their own kids in uni or health care, unemployment while paying for everyone else’s.
Its not so much that they are incompetent its just that the right has always had a easy ride, how do you figure Thatcher, zombie zero, got such a easy time and still does.
it was under Shipley that the whole flag changing thingy started. Was it not then that she had to resign because of inappropriate dealings with one of the Saatchi and Saatchi Brothers?
So clearly, she would not have given up the idea…and just wants it now, like the rest of the corporate Posse that disguises as the National Party.
A dinner to celebrate the 80th anniversary of the election of the first ever Labour Government will bring together a potentially explosive mix of people as some of the Rogernomes return to their original home for some reminiscing.
The dinner at Parliament is organised by current MP Stuart Nash, the grandson of the Prime Minister in the Second Labour Government: Sir Walter Nash.
Mockery of cv is not an actual argument.
Many people agree with cv’s view of thr Labour Party.
How else do you explain Labour’s embrace of neo-liberalism for 30 years?
Lab4 – no contest. Complete capture. But since then Labour has been at most middle-right, generally middle-left.
Saying Labour currently participates in an “embrace of neo-liberalism” misunderstands the concept of neo-liberalism, the concept of an embrace, or both.
Yes, for some commenters here to agree with Labour it would involve a long walk to the right for the commenters or a long walk to the left for Labour. But the starting points are relative – for Labour to be objectively “far right” it would share most of its policy manifesto with someone like Rand Paul. And yes, Labour is currently well to the left of Rand Paul.
all that’s happened is that market driven neoliberalism has become normalised in society and in politics. Even some Lefties have become habituated to it.
“Saying Labour currently participates in an “embrace of neo-liberalism” misunderstands the concept of neo-liberalism, the concept of an embrace, or both.”
Disagree. As I define it a political party embraces Neo-liberalism when they accept and follow economic policies dictated by main-stream neo-classical economics. These include,
1) A belief that governments like NZ face a budget constraint (e.g can run out of money).
2) A belief that governments should respond to financial crisis by cutting back spending.
3) A belief that governments deficits must ultimately drive inflation up.
4) A belief that full-employment can be achieved purely by using monetary policy (e.g the NAIRU rate of unemployment is a full employment level of unemployment).
Labour has endorsed all these through current and prior policies, at least since the time when Roger Douglas became minister for Finance.
For example,
* The Cullen fund is the government stoking its investment reserves in order to avoid running a later deficit.
* The last term they campaigned on a policy to up the retirement age, because they believe the country can’t afford the present age.
* Labours Kiwisaver policy is primarily a way to get pensioners income off the government books, and to be self dependent.
* Labour has constantly criticized the National government for running a deficit in response to the financial crisis, and highlighted that they ran surpluses themselves.
* Labour promised to get back into surplus faster that National during the previous election campaign.
* Labour is constantly looking for ways to increase their tax take, based on a desire to spend more, clearly they don’t understand that the tax take doesn’t need to increase for more social spending to go ahead.
* Labour in no way modified how treasury functions with regard to spending and the level of employment, from the present government.
And people who insist that Labour are full of neolibs are fllowing the fine left wing tradition of damning their closest political neighbours as their worst enemies.
So if you’re not a socialist you must be a neoliberal?
So, looking at your track record, CV, how long do you think it will be before you solemnly declare yourself the only true leftie on the planet, and the other seven billion of us are neoliberals (except putin because he’s ever so manly)?
1) A belief that governments like NZ face a budget constraint (e.g can run out of money).
That’s a belief hardly restricted to Rogernome neoliberals. It’s actually pretty reasonable
2) A belief that governments should respond to financial crisis by cutting back spending.
Not sure that applies to the current Labour party.
3) A belief that governments deficits must ultimately drive inflation up.
see 2
4) A belief that full-employment can be achieved purely by using monetary policy (e.g the NAIRU rate of unemployment is a full employment level of unemployment).
Non-Accelerating Inflation Rate of Unemployment is calculated by treasury etc for nz at 6-8% of unemployment. The current and previous nats ran that level, Lab5 didn’t.
* The Cullen fund is the government stoking its investment reserves in order to avoid running a later deficit.
* The last term they campaigned on a policy to up the retirement age, because they believe the country can’t afford the present age.
* Labours Kiwisaver policy is primarily a way to get pensioners income off the government books, and to be self dependent.
All of that is a bit like the EQC, saving up for a rainy day (in the case of the cullen fund, the supposed demographic bubble). The EQC was formed in 1945. By your logic the first Labour government was neoliberal.
* Labour has constantly criticized the National government for running a deficit in response to the financial crisis, and highlighted that they ran surpluses themselves.
* Labour promised to get back into surplus faster that National during the previous election campaign.
* Labour is constantly looking for ways to increase their tax take, based on a desire to spend more, clearly they don’t understand that the tax take doesn’t need to increase for more social spending to go ahead.
Labour is criticising national for running a deficit in order to give tax cuts to the rich. That’s different to arguing for economic retrenchment in response to an economic downturn. Labour wants a bigger tax take to provide more services.
* Labour in no way modified how treasury functions with regard to spending and the level of employment, from the present government.
what do you mean by “how treasury functions with regard to spending and the level of employment”?
“That’s a belief hardly restricted to Rogernome neoliberals. It’s actually pretty reasonable”
Its not pretty reasonable it’s bunk. The NZ government literally operates the only institution which creates NZ dollars. It can’t run out of them. The optimal level of government spending (and taxation) has nothing to do with government surplus or deficit. Its to do with the economic outcomes which the government achieves by it.
“Non-Accelerating Inflation Rate of Unemployment is calculated by treasury etc for nz at 6-8% of unemployment. The current and previous nats ran that level, Lab5 didn’t”
So you can point to any times when Labour ran lower than the NAIRU rate calculated contemporaneously? Note the NAIRU (despite being alleged to be a structural rate) appears to just track current unemployment with a lag.
“By your logic the first Labour government was neoliberal.”
It would depend on the overall balance of their policies, where the focus is. I have gone through a decent list of the Labour headlines here of course.
“Labour is criticising national for running a deficit in order to give tax cuts to the rich. That’s different to arguing for economic retrenchment in response to an economic downturn. ”
The National party Tax/GST changes don’t add up to the deficit. They were probably around fiscally neutral on balance (they were expected to be fiscally neutral), this leaves Labour arguing for economic retrenchment in response to the (ongoing) economic downturn.
“Labour wants a bigger tax take to provide more services.”
This is premised on your belief in 1) of course.
“how treasury functions with regard to spending and the level of employment”
Treasury forecasts and the budgeting process set limits on the amount of deficit spending that the government does in order to keep the level of unemployment above the NAIRU rate, essentially. Its hardly a surprise that this is left unexplained by the government of the day (that they have calculated an ideal level of unemployment, and no there will not be enough jobs to go around actually).
“That’s a belief hardly restricted to Rogernome neoliberals. It’s actually pretty reasonable”
Its not pretty reasonable it’s bunk. The NZ government literally operates the only institution which creates NZ dollars. It can’t run out of them. The optimal level of government spending (and taxation) has nothing to do with government surplus or deficit. Its to do with the economic outcomes which the government achieves by it.
I agree that government spending reflects the will of the government, but to argue that because NZ creates dollars has a limitless supply of cash on hand is bullshit. When Spain had a massive supply of silver from America that the rest of europe didn’t have access to, all that happened was the Spanish pissed it away so much that the price of silver plummeted.
“Non-Accelerating Inflation Rate of Unemployment is calculated by treasury etc for nz at 6-8% of unemployment. The current and previous nats ran that level, Lab5 didn’t”
So you can point to any times when Labour ran lower than the NAIRU rate calculated contemporaneously? Note the NAIRU (despite being alleged to be a structural rate) appears to just track current unemployment with a lag.
Most of the fifth labour government had an unemployment rate below 6%.
“By your logic the first Labour government was neoliberal.”
It would depend on the overall balance of their policies, where the focus is. I have gone through a decent list of the Labour headlines here of course.
You’ve cherry=picked a few Labour policies and beliefs that you ascribe to Labour. It still looks to me like labour now are nowhere near rogernomes, so aren’t “far right” as CV called them.
“Labour is criticising national for running a deficit in order to give tax cuts to the rich. That’s different to arguing for economic retrenchment in response to an economic downturn. ”
The National party Tax/GST changes don’t add up to the deficit. They were probably around fiscally neutral on balance (they were expected to be fiscally neutral), this leaves Labour arguing for economic retrenchment in response to the (ongoing) economic downturn.
Lol “fiscally neutral” – now who’s repeating tory memes? If the lower money out is the same as the GST increase, do I really need to explain the regressive effects of GST?
“Labour wants a bigger tax take to provide more services.”
This is premised on your belief in 1) of course.
A bit like your belief that magic money can be printed without taking into account devaluation effects.
“how treasury functions with regard to spending and the level of employment”
Treasury forecasts and the budgeting process set limits on the amount of deficit spending that the government does in order to keep the level of unemployment above the NAIRU rate, essentially. Its hardly a surprise that this is left unexplained by the government of the day (that they have calculated an ideal level of unemployment, and no there will not be enough jobs to go around actually).
Treasury forecasts are well known for what they are. Labour got rid of a lower minimum wage expressly for young workers even though treasury forecast an increase in youth unemployment.
“I agree that government spending reflects the will of the government, but to argue that because NZ creates dollars has a limitless supply of cash on hand is bullshit.”
It clearly means exactly that. This is quite important to understand from a rhetorical point of view as it changes the argument substantially. You are no longer talking about some kind of hard limit which might be imposed by bankruptcy, but the need for the government to regulate its policy based on the consequences of its spending. These include all of inflation, foreign exchange and employment consequences. But the onus is now on your position to demonstrate that for some level of spending negative consequences will likely occur in fact.
Note, using an example from currency system based on silver (a commodity) is probably a poor analogy for sovereign currency because you now need to take into account that silver is in common use by several countries at the time. This has effects on the exchange rate. Its unlikely that sovereign currencies work like this as most of the product which can be purchased in say NZ$ comes from NZ.
“Most of the fifth labour government had an unemployment rate below 6%.”
“Lol “fiscally neutral” – now who’s repeating tory memes? If the lower money out is the same as the GST increase, do I really need to explain the regressive effects of GST?”
Clearly fiscally neutral simply means they traded the amount of tax they collect from income over to GST. This would probably have influenced the further direction of the economy, absolutely. But saying that all or almost all of the deficit can be attributed to the taxation change, or even the downward effects of the tax change, is incorrect. NZ would still have a large deficit if this tax policy had not been applied, but other policy had. You do know what fiscally neutral literally means right?
“A bit like your belief that magic money can be printed without taking into account devaluation effects.”
No, just run of the mill high powered money, and the onus is on your position to show that the devaluation effects will likely occur. At present NZ has inflation at the low end of the target range, and is trying to run a surplus. Given your own opinions, being presently demonstrated, why would Labour do any different?
“Labour got rid of a lower minimum wage expressly for young workers even though treasury forecast an increase in youth unemployment.”
Relevance?
It would be much better if you stopped extrapolating straw men out of what I have said, and take it to mean what is says, neither more nor less.
“I agree that government spending reflects the will of the government, but to argue that because NZ creates dollars has a limitless supply of cash on hand is bullshit.”
It clearly means exactly that. This is quite important to understand from a rhetorical point of view as it changes the argument substantially. You are no longer talking about some kind of hard limit which might be imposed by bankruptcy, but the need for the government to regulate its policy based on the consequences of its spending. These include all of inflation, foreign exchange and employment consequences. But the onus is now on your position to demonstrate that for some level of spending negative consequences will likely occur in fact.
Funny, I thought that the onus was on you to support the idea that Labour is neoliberal.
Ok, so let’s say that the government issues 200 billion NZ$ in order to pay for a space programme next year. Unlimited supply of money, fine. So now what happens to the economy, in your opinion? At least citizens of Weimar had a plentiful supply of toilet paper.
Note, using an example from currency system based on silver (a commodity) is probably a poor analogy for sovereign currency because you now need to take into account that silver is in common use by several countries at the time. This has effects on the exchange rate. Its unlikely that sovereign currencies work like this as most of the product which can be purchased in say NZ$ comes from NZ.
Nope. Silver or gold currencies don’t have an exchange rate, because they are worth that weight of silver. The point I was making was simply that when you have a means of exchange, the value of that means of exchange is related to its scarcity. The practical supply needs to be restricted in order for the currency to act as a currency – dramatic oversupply would simply lead to the end of its utility as a currency.
“Most of the fifth labour government had an unemployment rate below 6%.”
That wasn’t a forecast. Like most economists, Treasury are very good at ensuring the past matches their personal econo-religious doctrine.
“Lol “fiscally neutral” – now who’s repeating tory memes? If the lower money out is the same as the GST increase, do I really need to explain the regressive effects of GST?”
Clearly fiscally neutral simply means they traded the amount of tax they collect from income over to GST. This would probably have influenced the further direction of the economy, absolutely. But saying that all or almost all of the deficit can be attributed to the taxation change, or even the downward effects of the tax change, is incorrect. NZ would still have a large deficit if this tax policy had not been applied, but other policy had. You do know what fiscally neutral literally means right?
I do. They weren’t.
No, the deficit is not entirely due to national party tax cuts. I never said it was. But the nat cuts and the cullen cuts didn’t exactly help, did they?
“A bit like your belief that magic money can be printed without taking into account devaluation effects.”
No, just run of the mill high powered money, and the onus is on your position to show that the devaluation effects will likely occur. At present NZ has inflation at the low end of the target range, and is trying to run a surplus. Given your own opinions, being presently demonstrated, why would Labour do any different?
Oh, now money varies in power?
“Labour got rid of a lower minimum wage expressly for young workers even though treasury forecast an increase in youth unemployment.”
Relevance?
Simply that Labour do not universally obey Treasury dictats, and therefore that your comment about Treasury setting “limits” on government economic policy isn’t particularly accurate. Treasury is extremely right wing – Labour aren’t.
“Ok, so let’s say that the government issues 200 billion NZ$ in order to pay for a space programme next year. Unlimited supply of money, fine. So now what happens to the economy, in your opinion? ”
What happens would depend on the capacity of the economy to produce a space program (and nothing I have said indicates 200 billion is anything but a ridiculus hysterical figure you made up). But no doubt the parts of the economy which were stretched to capacity would raise prices and a lot of people would be employed in the space program. Unless the economy is presently running at full capacity then there is currently room for the government to spend more and provide more jobs, which means not running a surplus in these circumstances. But this is not to do with the quantity of money, the quantity theory of money (which you are alluding to) is originally a central part of monetarism. You may be trying to convince people that Labour is not neo-liberal, but what you are showing is that you have strong and deep seated neo-liberal ideas yourself.
“Silver or gold currencies don’t have an exchange rate, because they are worth that weight of silver. ”
They have an exchange rate for every currency which maintains convertibility then don’t they.
“The point I was making was simply that when you have a means of exchange, the value of that means of exchange is related to its scarcity. The practical supply needs to be restricted in order for the currency to act as a currency – dramatic oversupply would simply lead to the end of its utility as a currency.”
Really? You are aware that the inflation theory this implies demands that ‘rational’ economic agents respond to the quantity of money, or even high powered money. Most economic agents (people) are not even aware how much the government spends or is in debt. Your theory is about as in feasible as the efficient markets hypothesis and has bugger all evidence going for it. Its not even the theory used by central banks these days. Central banks target the rate money is loaned at not its quantity.
“That wasn’t a forecast. Like most economists, Treasury are very good at ensuring the past matches their personal econo-religious doctrine.”
You keep claiming that by keeping the unemployment rate below 6% Labour kept the unemployment rate below the NAIRU. This depends on the NAIRU being 6% or there abouts, which it wasn’t. You are incorrect.
(and nothing I have said indicates 200 billion is anything but a ridiculus hysterical figure you made up).
If we have a limitless money supply, 200billion is at the lower end of the potential. A UBI that several authors here advocate might cost $40billion a year. Hell, let’s just create 50trillion a year and be the richest nation on the planet.
Unless the economy is presently running at full capacity then there is currently room for the government to spend more and provide more jobs, which means not running a surplus in these circumstances. But this is not to do with the quantity of money, the quantity theory of money (which you are alluding to) is originally a central part of monetarism. You may be trying to convince people that Labour is not neo-liberal, but what you are showing is that you have strong and deep seated neo-liberal ideas yourself.
lol
That would be one of those irregular verbs: I build straw men from your statements, whereas you say my statements are “alluding to” something random.
Even Keynes suggested reductions in interest rates as part of a solution to a downturn. Was he a neoliberal, too? The first Labour government raised taxed to finance their spending – were they neoliberals, too?
“Silver or gold currencies don’t have an exchange rate, because they are worth that weight of silver. ”
They have an exchange rate for every currency which maintains convertibility then don’t they.
Nope. There is no “exchange rate” because one currency is not exchanged for another, it’s a universal currency by weight of silver.
“The point I was making was simply that when you have a means of exchange, the value of that means of exchange is related to its scarcity. The practical supply needs to be restricted in order for the currency to act as a currency – dramatic oversupply would simply lead to the end of its utility as a currency.”
Really? You are aware that the inflation theory this implies demands that ‘rational’ economic agents respond to the quantity of money, or even high powered money. Most economic agents (people) are not even aware how much the government spends or is in debt. Your theory is about as in feasible as the efficient markets hypothesis and has bugger all evidence going for it. Its not even the theory used by central banks these days. Central banks target the rate money is loaned at not its quantity.
People notice when silver plummets in value, or a loaf of bread costs a billion marks. So they use someo ther currency or barter instead.
“That wasn’t a forecast. Like most economists, Treasury are very good at ensuring the past matches their personal econo-religious doctrine.”
You keep claiming that by keeping the unemployment rate below 6% Labour kept the unemployment rate below the NAIRU. This depends on the NAIRU being 6% or there abouts, which it wasn’t. You are incorrect.
If you want to demonstrate that treasury forecasts set limits on Labour policy, feel free to point to an actual forecast. A weather forecaster who told you is has been raining is always right. One who’ll tell you, accurately, how much it will rain tonight – that’s the one you want.
“If we have a limitless money supply, 200billion is at the lower end of the potential. A UBI that several authors here advocate might cost $40billion a year. Hell, let’s just create 50trillion a year and be the richest nation on the planet.”
We do (the government does) have a limitless money supply, however nothing I have written indicates that spending will never cause inflation. That’s where you just go off and create a straw man and then knock it down.
“That would be one of those irregular verbs: I build straw men from your statements, whereas you say my statements are “alluding to” something random.”
“Even Keynes suggested reductions in interest rates as part of a solution to a downturn. Was he a neoliberal, too? The first Labour government raised taxed to finance their spending – were they neoliberals, too?”
I don’t remember implying that governments who manipulate interest rates are neo-liberal, or that governments which collect taxes are neo-liberal. You should make some attempt in future to make some sense because what you are saying is not particularly coherent and does not address the arguments I put.
you can do it for me – while you’re looking up the definition of “forecast”.
So, of your four characteristics of neoliberals, I think that Labour does indeed have “a belief that governments like NZ face a budget constraint”, although I don’t think the fear is so much of running out of money as it is trashing the economy. And I don’t think that fear is unique to neoliberals, as Lab1 also believed in budget constraints.
of the rest:
2) A belief that governments should respond to financial crisis by cutting back spending.
feel free to point to that in Labour policy
3) A belief that governments deficits must ultimately drive inflation up.
Given that ties in to 1), see above
4) A belief that full-employment can be achieved purely by using monetary policy (e.g the NAIRU rate of unemployment is a full employment level of unemployment).”
McFlock, you’re illustrating exactly why the Left has been captured by the economic and monetary thinking frameworks of the Right.
Under these frameworks, it makes sense to cut NZ Super. It makes sense to under fund DHBs. It makes sense to make students pay more for their education.
Actually, it illustrates something else entirely.
25 years ago a few left wing parties recognised their shared objectives as well as their differences and joined together to keep a left wing voice in parliament even under an FPP system.
Now, apparently, anyone who doesn’t immediately accept the A+B theorem at face value is to be denounced as a “neoliberal”.
After all, several of these supposedly “neoliberal” ideas were apparently practised by the first Labour government, goddamned tories that they were…
The headline really says it all, but anyway from here.
1) Labour won’t spend without taxation,
“Make sure the highest income New Zealanders and corporations pay their fair share of tax so we can afford to invest in health, education, and upgrading the economy”
2) Labour won’t spend to increase employment,
“Limit operating spending from new policies to less than the new operating spending allowances projected in Budget 2014 plus the net increase in revenue resulting from new policies,”
4) See Lab5 term. Surpluses = leaving it entirely up to monetary policy to support employment.
3) Absolutely no criticism for Bill English many assertions and rhetoric that government spending will drive up inflation, and force interest rates up! Meanwhile inflation is still at the low end of the RBNZ targets and seems to be falling. They could be pointing to that for a start.
Or on Treasury as a constraint of Labour policy (even while in opposition),
“Underlying every number in this paper are Treasury’s projections for the economy and the Crown accounts; we haven’t created our own projections, simply laid the fiscal effects of our policies on top of Treasury’s”
So good old vanilla right wing economic constraint on Labour’s alternative budget. While in office of course they prepare the budget together (Gee, I wonder how that goes).
“Now, apparently, anyone who doesn’t immediately accept the A+B theorem at face value is to be denounced as a “neoliberal”.”
I was quite explicit about what kind of policy is considered neo-liberal for this reason. Its not just policy I don’t agree with, its a particular kind policy, strongly aligned with main-stream economic thinking. I guess its not surprising that you don’t agree with this given your economic beliefs appear to align well enough with the same main-stream economic thinking and you don’t want to label yourself neo-liberal.
“After all, several of these supposedly “neoliberal” ideas were apparently practised by the first Labour government, goddamned tories that they were…”
As I clearly said multiple times its a combination not just one policy or idea. Another straw man argument by you, not an argument I have put forward.
1) Labour won’t spend without taxation,
“Make sure the highest income New Zealanders and corporations pay their fair share of tax so we can afford to invest in health, education, and upgrading the economy”
A tendency they’ve had since before the first Labour government.
2) Labour won’t spend to increase employment,
“Limit operating spending from new policies to less than the new operating spending allowances projected in Budget 2014 plus the net increase in revenue resulting from new policies,”
reread the bit in italics, then refer to point 1 again.
4) See Lab5 term. Surpluses = leaving it entirely up to monetary policy to support employment.
Those two things do not equal each other. The first means money in is greater than money out. The second means not spending anything, just adjusting the OCR.
3) Absolutely no criticism for Bill English many assertions and rhetoric that government spending will drive up inflation, and force interest rates up! Meanwhile inflation is still at the low end of the RBNZ targets and seems to be falling. They could be pointing to that for a start.
Seriously? The evidence you have is that Labour haven’t criticised National in exactly the way you want, so that’s evidence they’re neoliberals?
Or on Treasury as a constraint of Labour policy (even while in opposition),
“Underlying every number in this paper are Treasury’s projections for the economy and the Crown accounts; we haven’t created our own projections, simply laid the fiscal effects of our policies on top of Treasury’s”
So good old vanilla right wing economic constraint on Labour’s alternative budget. While in office of course they prepare the budget together (Gee, I wonder how that goes).
Or it just says that even by the tory standards it’s a better budget than what national can deliver. That’s not neoliberal – that’s pointing out the nats are shit at their own game. If they hadn’t used underlying treasury projections, the they’d open themselves to claims they were using outlandish figures. That’s middle of the road, not far right.
I was quite explicit about what kind of policy is considered neo-liberal for this reason. Its not just policy I don’t agree with, its a particular kind policy, strongly aligned with main-stream economic thinking. I guess its not surprising that you don’t agree with this given your economic beliefs appear to align well enough with the same main-stream economic thinking and you don’t want to label yourself neo-liberal.
More of the “if not with us then against us” rhetoric.
So is “main-stream economic thinking” simply “neoliberal” then? I’m not so sure about that, what with Stiglitz, Piketty etc.
As I clearly said multiple times its a combination not just one policy or idea. Another straw man argument by you, not an argument I have put forward.
Did you miss my fraunhofer line comment?
The thing is that most of your examples of offending policy were practised by Lab1. So you actually are left with just one or two Labour policies that might be regarded as being to the right of the politico-economic spectrum.
If Labour were truly “far right”, they would have gone into minority coalition with the nats rather than tolerate the renationalisation of kiwirail or the founding of kiwibank. They would have continued privatisations, shrunk the size of the public service, and so on.
“So is “main-stream economic thinking” simply “neoliberal” then? I’m not so sure about that, what with Stiglitz, Piketty etc.”
Mostly it is. But I would suggest that economists like Stiglitz, Piketty could reasonably be excluded, mostly because they have mostly submitted criticism’s of it.
“Did you miss my fraunhofer line comment?”
No, I dismissed it. It makes little sense to say that you can’t differentiate between political parties because they all have policies dispersed across the political spectrum. Its also not true, if you believed it yourself you could not tell any difference between Labour and National (or any other political party) based on their policies (which are all purportedly scattered across the political spectrum). You clearly don’t believe that yourself.
“If Labour were truly “far right”, they would have gone into minority coalition with the nats rather than tolerate the renationalisation of kiwirail or the founding of kiwibank. They would have continued privatisations, shrunk the size of the public service, and so on.”
If politics was a pure competition in similar ideas, then maybe. But then again if that was what it was no doubt Labour would have gone into government with the Green’s rather than agreeing confidence and supply. What you are suggesting ‘would happen’ doesn’t seem like its a very good strategy for political parties in practice. Look at what has happened to the Lib Dems in the UK, or the Maori party in NZ when they go into coalition with the ‘other side’ it doesn’t usually work out very well at the next election.
“Labour won’t spend without taxation,” Fair enough this was not clear enough. I should have said,
Labour won’t commit to additional spending without additional taxation.
“Labour won’t spend to increase employment,”or this one should have been, Labour won’t commit additional spending to increase employment. Note, if your taxing as much as your additional spending (as Labour promises) then this means little to no net effect on employment. Put another way, however much employment the market is currently providing, that’s as much as your getting under Labour.
“Those two things do not equal each other. The first means money in is greater than money out. The second means not spending anything, just adjusting the OCR.”
If the government is running a surplus they are extracting spending from the economy and this leaves all support for employment up to monetary policy. No government can do zero spending annually, it simply doesn’t work (or happen).
“Or it just says that even by the tory standards it’s a better budget than what national can deliver. That’s not neoliberal – that’s pointing out the nats are shit at their own game. If they hadn’t used underlying treasury projections, the they’d open themselves to claims they were using outlandish figures. That’s middle of the road, not far right.” – McFlock
“Treasury is extremely right wing – Labour aren’t” – McFlock
What else do treasury do (which they are extremely right wing at) if its not economic budgets and forecasting?
No, I dismissed it. It makes little sense to say that you can’t differentiate between political parties because they all have policies dispersed across the political spectrum. Its also not true,
Lucky that’s not the point of the analogy, then. Astrophysicists can differentiate between stars using Fraunhofer lines. To a certain degree that’s their main use: determining the composition of individual stars so we know more about those stars.
“If Labour were truly “far right”, they would have gone into minority coalition with the nats rather than tolerate the renationalisation of kiwirail or the founding of kiwibank. They would have continued privatisations, shrunk the size of the public service, and so on.”
If politics was a pure competition in similar ideas, then maybe. But then again if that was what it was no doubt Labour would have gone into government with the Green’s rather than agreeing confidence and supply. What you are suggesting ‘would happen’ doesn’t seem like its a very good strategy for political parties in practice. Look at what has happened to the Lib Dems in the UK, or the Maori party in NZ when they go into coalition with the ‘other side’ it doesn’t usually work out very well at the next election.
So Labour are “far right” in principle, just not in practise because that would lose them votes?
“Labour won’t spend without taxation,” Fair enough this was not clear enough. I should have said,Labour won’t commit to additional spending without additional taxation.
“Labour won’t spend to increase employment,”or this one should have been, Labour won’t commit additional spending to increase employment. Note, if your taxing as much as your additional spending (as Labour promises) then this means little to no net effect on employment. Put another way, however much employment the market is currently providing, that’s as much as your getting under Labour.
Unless money is taxed from unproductive areas like capital gains and people on high incomes and given to people who immediately recirculate most of their money into local spending rather than hoarding it or betting on the stockmarket. Take the money from the money sinks and redistribute it back through the regions.
“Those two things do not equal each other. The first means money in is greater than money out. The second means not spending anything, just adjusting the OCR.”
If the government is running a surplus they are extracting spending from the economy and this leaves all support for employment up to monetary policy. No government can do zero spending annually, it simply doesn’t work (or happen).
Taxing the rich extracts corporate investment money from the economy, and giving it to the poor injects spending money because poor people spend all their income often within the week they get it.
“Or it just says that even by the tory standards it’s a better budget than what national can deliver. That’s not neoliberal – that’s pointing out the nats are shit at their own game. If they hadn’t used underlying treasury projections, the they’d open themselves to claims they were using outlandish figures. That’s middle of the road, not far right.” – McFlock
“Treasury is extremely right wing – Labour aren’t” – McFlock
What else do treasury do (which they are extremely right wing at) if its not economic budgets and forecasting?
You sort of miss the point that Labour overlaid their plans for housing market reform, expanding free primary healthcare, R&D tax credits, and power market reform and all the rest of it on top of treasury’s bunk forecasts and it still added up better than National managed. Many of the individual policies are anathema to the neolib userpays mentality.
“To a certain degree that’s their main use: determining the composition of individual stars so we know more about those stars”
You’d want to be careful about this analogy of course, taken too far it could be that Labour has neo-liberal materials making it up. We might detect this based on policies it ’emits’.
Using physics analogies to ‘model’ politics is of course of pretty limited value. My main point is that the notion political parties just form together based on wanting to implement their policies (which of course they are always truthful about) is not correct and simplistic. Labour and National will always see themselves and act in competition, and some significant examples of parties going with the other side have resulting in follow up routes. If its reasonable politics or not, ‘turn-coat’ parties frequently lose a large chunk of support.
“So Labour are “far right” in principle, just not in practise because that would lose them votes?”
This seems to be where your going wrong, the mainstream of economics is not the ‘far right’ of politics. It is neo-liberal however which is as I stated in my earliest comments neo-classical economics. I heard a statement recently, from economics circles, to the effect of, that there had been no ‘left-wing’ appointments in NZ university economics departments in the last 20 years or so. This also accords with things as I put them.
“Unless money is taxed from unproductive areas like capital gains and people on high incomes and given to people who immediately recirculate most of their money into local spending rather than hoarding it or betting on the stockmarket. Take the money from the money sinks and redistribute it back through the regions”
Good luck with that. I think you will find that standard income tax is not nearly so specific about what is collected, or progressive in action.
“Taxing the rich extracts corporate investment money from the economy, and giving it to the poor injects spending money because poor people spend all their income often within the week they get it”
Maybe, its still doesn’t provide as much stimulation as not adding any taxes and spending the money anyway, however. Its also very difficult to use government policy to target spending effectively because government policies are by necessity quite a blunt instrument.
“You sort of miss the point that Labour overlaid their plans for housing market reform, expanding free primary healthcare, R&D tax credits, and power market reform and all the rest of it on top of treasury’s bunk forecasts and it still added up better than National managed. Many of the individual policies are anathema to the neolib userpays mentality”
What do you mean by added up better? Nobody really knows what’s going to happen when the budget is implemented. Labour had a large tax component in its policies, maybe the economy will react particularly negatively to the additional taxation and tank resulting in higher unemployment under Labour than we have today. Anyway if you are following Treasury on this then the overall fiscal balance is at best long run neutral, so your over-all fiscal balance is effectively neo-liberal economic policy.
I am reliably informed that before the Douglas era, governments used to follow Keynesian prescriptions and those included not paying as much attention to the surplus/deficit as to the unemployment/employment rate (and that was during an era of fixed exchange rates to boot). As I see it any party which perpetuates that has sold its political soul to the neo-liberals and will continue to be a part of the problem (regardless of its intentions).
“To a certain degree that’s their main use: determining the composition of individual stars so we know more about those stars”
You’d want to be careful about this analogy of course, taken too far it could be that Labour has neo-liberal materials making it up. We might detect this based on policies it ’emits’.
Of course it does. The Chairman, for example, pointed out that Labour did some work on PPPs. But as you have noted it’s not down to one policy “element”, it’s the full package – I’m sure if we squint hard we’d find some left wing “elements” as well.
Using physics analogies to ‘model’ politics is of course of pretty limited value. My main point is that the notion political parties just form together based on wanting to implement their policies (which of course they are always truthful about) is not correct and simplistic. Labour and National will always see themselves and act in competition, and some significant examples of parties going with the other side have resulting in follow up routes. If its reasonable politics or not, ‘turn-coat’ parties frequently lose a large chunk of support.
But on the other hand, the full neoliberal governments of the last thirty years implement their policy objectives with very little compromise for electability or even the observed consequences of those policies. Douglas etc in Lab4. Shipley answering reporters’ questions about 1XXk unemployment with the desperate mantra “the market will correct itself”. Even the current nat government implements its policy without much compromise and operates the election campaigns in a manner disconnected from policy.
“So Labour are “far right” in principle, just not in practise because that would lose them votes?”
This seems to be where your going wrong, the mainstream of economics is not the ‘far right’ of politics. It is neo-liberal however which is as I stated in my earliest comments neo-classical economics. I heard a statement recently, from economics circles, to the effect of, that there had been no ‘left-wing’ appointments in NZ university economics departments in the last 20 years or so. This also accords with things as I put them.
Neo-liberal isn’t far right? You might want to tell that to CV.
“Unless money is taxed from unproductive areas like capital gains and people on high incomes and given to people who immediately recirculate most of their money into local spending rather than hoarding it or betting on the stockmarket. Take the money from the money sinks and redistribute it back through the regions”
Good luck with that. I think you will find that standard income tax is not nearly so specific about what is collected, or progressive in action.
It’s better than GST, even at current rates with current bands. So your “fiscally neutral” (not) tax cut still had a detrimental effect on employment.
“Taxing the rich extracts corporate investment money from the economy, and giving it to the poor injects spending money because poor people spend all their income often within the week they get it”
Maybe, its still doesn’t provide as much stimulation as not adding any taxes and spending the money anyway, however.
Indeed, if that weren’t the seed of its own problems (and believing that isn’t particularly right wing or neoliberal).
Its also very difficult to use government policy to target spending effectively because government policies are by necessity quite a blunt instrument.
Actually, they can be quite precise: you have unemployment in Northland, so you build roads and infrastructure in Northland. You increase benefits to the unemployed, and that money is immediately spent in predominantly economically depressed areas.
“You sort of miss the point that Labour overlaid their plans for housing market reform, expanding free primary healthcare, R&D tax credits, and power market reform and all the rest of it on top of treasury’s bunk forecasts and it still added up better than National managed. Many of the individual policies are anathema to the neolib userpays mentality”
What do you mean by added up better? Nobody really knows what’s going to happen when the budget is implemented. Labour had a large tax component in its policies, maybe the economy will react particularly negatively to the additional taxation and tank resulting in higher unemployment under Labour than we have today. Anyway if you are following Treasury on this then the overall fiscal balance is at best long run neutral, so your over-all fiscal balance is effectively neo-liberal economic policy.
I pay little attention to Treasury. And again, you seem to be calling balancing the government books a neolib fetish that wasn’t a concern prior to 1984. Is that your position, or are you arguing something else?
edit: “adding up better” – looking better than the nats in their own dogma, with less economic fudging, and still providing better social policy.
And besides, if capital flight occurs, good riddance to ’em /edit
I am reliably informed that before the Douglas era, governments used to follow Keynesian prescriptions and those included not paying as much attention to the surplus/deficit as to the unemployment/employment rate (and that was during an era of fixed exchange rates to boot). As I see it any party which perpetuates that has sold its political soul to the neo-liberals and will continue to be a part of the problem (regardless of its intentions).
Okay, if pre-Lange governments didn’t pay much attention to deficits, which of them had higher crown debt (gorss, net, absolute or %gdp, whatever makes you happy) levels than the current lot? And why did the second labour government bother with the “black budget” if it was happy to just print more cash?
BTW, just while I remember: thanks for the discussion – it has made me question some of my assumptions and look into knowledge gaps I hadn’t really noticed before. 🙂
“It’s better than GST, even at current rates with current bands. So your “fiscally neutral” (not) tax cut still had a detrimental effect on employment.”
When I point to the fact they were (arguably) fiscally neutral I am not disputing that this shift towards GST had negative effects on employment.
“Okay, if pre-Lange governments didn’t pay much attention to deficits, which of them had higher crown debt (gorss, net, absolute or %gdp, whatever makes you happy) levels than the current lot?”
I don’t think looking at crown debt is a very good measure here, because it can start from low levels, or debt might not be issued. Ideally you can look at the deficit using something resembling modern accounting, but that gets more difficult the further back you go in time.
It might also be noted how one of the main legacies of Muldoon was the think big projects, which were already much more Keynesian than the following Labour government.
“And why did the second labour government bother with the “black budget” if it was happy to just print more cash?”
The black budget was associated with a balance of payments crisis. This is usually associated with a need to devalue a fixed exchange rate. Similar things have been observed to occur for both fixed exchange rate mechanisms and gold/silver standard systems, where the government faces a difficult choice between devaluing or cutting back stimulus probably increasing unemployment.
Because NZ floats its exchange rate this is much less of a big deal for the NZ economy these days. The devaluation effects are less strong under a floating exchange rate because when speculators see a likely event of a devaluation they want to cash out immediately (rather than waiting for the devaluation) which puts additional drain on the reserves. So on a gold standard, if it becomes clear that the government is unable to maintain it and is likely to devalue, then speculators want to cash out immediately at the higher exchange rate and this drains gold out putting additional pressure on the exchange rate.
“And again, you seem to be calling balancing the government books a neolib fetish that wasn’t a concern prior to 1984. Is that your position, or are you arguing something else?”
This is absolutely my position, yes. Balancing the books is a neolib fetish. The IMF for example provides loads of documentation supporting this contention.
I think you subscribe to a theory of the institution of money which comes from the present main-stream of economics. If you are interested in how I reached my conclusions I suggest you look at this post. It explains the basics of how money works (as I see it) including why money is used to begin with. http://bilbo.economicoutlook.net/blog/?p=332
As I see it this theory is significantly superior in the scientific sense to the main-stream theory, and certainly testable.
sorry about the delay – been a bit busy to switch into the headspace.
Ok, so government deficits are apparently less important now because of the floating exchange rate. But that only removes the speculative crash with each manual devaluation – the currency still devalues if it is oversupplied, and this then requires inflationary effects because we’re in a global economy. So arguing that the money supply is “limitless” ignores the practical limits on the utility of the currency.
Secondly, if maintaining a balanced budget (e.g. to address the balance of payments) decreased in importance after floating the dollar, that only happened under Roger Douglas. So an alternative perspective is that rather than being “neoliberal”, the Labour (and, I’d suggest, the conventional NZ layperson’s view as to government fiscal competence being analogous to their household finances correct or not) might merely be “out of date”.
“But that only removes the speculative crash with each manual devaluation – the currency still devalues if it is oversupplied, and this then requires inflationary effects because we’re in a global economy. So arguing that the money supply is “limitless” ignores the practical limits on the utility of the currency.”
Yes, its possible for the exchange rate to fall, because of a plenty-full supply of currency. However there are many many much more significant effects on the foreign exchange markets than the deficit, and it tends to be largely self correcting anyway.
One important point about deficit spending and its effects on inflation is all spending creates exactly equivalent inflationary pressures. So when somebody borrows money to make a house purchase, this creates as much inflationary pressure as the equivalent amount of deficit spending.
No, pointing out its limitless, its just about making cogent arguments. The government has an unlimited budget so in order to justify restricting spending it needs to show the negative impacts of that spending. I didn’t claim at any stage that government spending has no effects on the exchange rate or inflation, but we need to look at the actual effects, not some fictitious belief that the budget should be balanced. If you look at some of the justifications for balanced budgets, e.g Ricardian Equivalence, NAIRU, Crowding Out, they are utterly ridiculous. Its only by hiding behind false household budget analogies that these ideas survive public scrutiny.
“So an alternative perspective is that rather than being “neoliberal”, the Labour (and, I’d suggest, the conventional NZ layperson’s view as to government fiscal competence being analogous to their household finances correct or not) might merely be “out of date””
It’s certainly wrong to believe that, but oddly it was better before this restraint was removed. This is part of why its important to explain the plain facts.
look, whether Labour is to the left of the right, or the right of the left, of the political spectrum is a reasonable argument if you can be bothered with it. The spectrum is broad and any party would have a package of policies that are like Fraunhofer lines, with collections of elements that might be conservative or liberal, left or right.
But CV said “far right”: the dwelling-ground of fascists, randian superheroes, and religious ultra-conservatives. Yeah, nah.
and yet Lab5 still chose to implement Alliance and Green policies rather than forming a coalition with nact, such as renationalising kiwirail. Like I said, “any party would have a package of policies that are like Fraunhofer lines, with collections of elements that might be conservative or liberal, left or right”.
No, but it easy fit into ACT it clearly shows that the policy is pretty neo-liberal. It depends how many of these it has, as I see it too many of the headline policies.
In particular, if your party has a belief it has financial constraints dictated by the market, don’t complain when it implements pro-cyclical policies including retrenchment in response to economic downturns.
If so, the centre and left of the political spectrum are good for maybe 10 per cent of the vote. In which case, either NZ is a utopia for the far right, or your concept of the political spectrum is completely fucked. I wonder which it is?
Exactly PM. NZ is generally left-ish, most Kiwiblog readers are spewing that Key has (at least pretended to) steal loads of Labour policies (CGT, public transport, cycleways, paying teachers and nurses, not being fascist) and plastered the Gnats all over the middle of the voting spectrum
The background of Nash is an example of something I have noticed about Labour and National. The children of politicians and connected functionaries find it a fertile area to advance themselves, using their parent’s connections and understandings. But they may not have their parent’s sense of allegiance to the core beliefs of the Party and its sense of some responsibility to the country and the people. Labour for instance has this Nash chap, descendant of a former Labour follower. Roger Douglas, another of these. I’m sure there are more.
Thinking about it brought a part of a recently read novel to mind. It is by Ruth Rendell (Talking to Strange Men) and she explores the genesis of an amoral gang of youths and how a culture of immoral behaviour can develop. They are mostly male teenagers, the group is secret and select and has formed rules and methods that all use and comply with and loyalty is required.
Rendell has the contender who has been handed the leadership thinking:
“They would see some changes now. Mungo-style scruples… (of the previous leader)
would have no place in the new regime. When you considered what could be accomplished with scruples, all that planning, information…how much more was possible when scruples were discarded?
That code nonsense should go. It had always been artificial….The ban on what Mungo rather naively called ‘dishonesty’ – that must be the first to go. A kind of Mafia, Charles (new leader) decided he had in mind, but run by the cream of a rising generation, the country’s best brains, a youthful public school elite, headed by one who had already killed his man…(Charles had killed by pushing a man to fall down stairs but was safe from discovery as no-one had knowledge of it.)”
And just what is that supposed to mean?
That is just about as silly as the British royalty rules that you have to have “Royal Blood”, whatever that is supposed to mean. Is it really blue, perhaps?
I suppose you hate Bill Clinton because he was in fact adopted by a man named Clinton?
Just a fact that not many people may know – I don’t hate anyone. Stuart Nash has been involved with adoption issues in the past in his parliamentary career, that’s all. Greywarshark had talked about Stuart Nash’s past, which was why I mentioned it. He talked about finding his birth mother in an article a good while back.
It’s strange that “facts” are no longer allowed to be talked about. Maybe alwyn is taking the lead from the NZ Herald – they never let facts get in the way of a good “story” these days!
I agree that nurture can sometimes seem stronger than nature – although some of the studies done on identical twins separated at birth and adopted by different families, who don’t even meet each other till they are grown yet share so many traits etc, makes me think that genetics are more powerful than we realise. The more we know, the more we realise how much we don’t know I guess!
Putin to Netanyahu: Russia’s Actions in Mideast Will Always Be Responsible
TPS / Tazpit News Agency
“…Putin also doubted Netanyahu’s suggestion that the Syrian government would open up a terrorist front against Israel.
“In regard to Syria, we know that the Syrian army is in a situation such that it is incapable of opening a new front,” argued Putin.
Although diplomatic relations between Israel and Russia have grown and advanced since the fall of the Soviet Union, significant differences remain between both countries on various Middle East issues.
Russia maintains strong connections with Iran and Syria, both of which are enemy regimes of Israel.
In contrast with Israel, Russia also views Syria’s President Basher al-Assad as a necessity for maintaining stability and order in Syria.
Despite existing disagreements, both leaders assured the other of maintaining good relations.
“In all of the relations between us, whether I agreed and also when we differed, our discourse has always been conducted with mutual respect and openness,” Netanyahu told Putin.
While Putin made it clear that Russia’s “main goal is to defend the Syrian state,” he also expressed a cordial greeting to Netanyahu.
“I understand your concern and I am very pleased that you have come here to discuss all issues in detail,” Putin said to Netanyahu. …”
Interesting …..
Is Russia going to buy Israeli goods to help replace those that they may longer buy from Turkey?
Robert Glennie
Political policy must be fleet of foot in this era of hypocricy, loud statements, quiet counter-plots, avowed intentions and obvious contradictory actions. One must no doubt, tread softly, usually, with a pocketed velvet covered knuckleduster. Also be prepared to be flexible in order to survive. What cordial would you serve at the high-level meetings?
Would Putin be so cordial should Netanyahu ever decide to bomb Iran
Putin would work through the situation diplomatically. Put it this way: Israel hates Hezbollah and Iran with a vengeance – but Russia has helped convinced Israel not to strike at Hezbollah and Iranian fighters taking on ISIS in the north of Syria.
That’s Russian diplomacy at work.
In any event, Putin will do what ever is good for Russia.
Interesting set of interviews and discussions on Q+A this morning. JK got grilled reasonably thoroughly about a Colmar Brunton poll about things most NZers are concerned about (pay rates, job security etc) and when Michelle Boag tried to skew the following discussion by saying that people were only allowed to rank pre-selected issues, jose Pagani managed to make the point that the poll process included a pre-poll which identified the issues that the later poll saw ranked.
I can’t say that I was as impressed later in the show when she seemed to (STILL) by backing Shane Jones to head the Labour Party, though. After an interview with Jones about Pacific issues (no mention of climate change), panellists were asked where they saw him in 5 years. Pagani answered “”Leader of a social democratic party – possibly the Labour Party”. Get over it, Jose!
Pagani does not represent left wing thinking.
She is given a pulpit because she is what the establishment wants the Labour Party to be.
The term fifth columnist comes to mind.
The first claim made over the last five years, both during coalition and now whilst governing alone, is that the economy is made inherently stronger if public spending is constrained and if high levels of public debt can be avoided.
The problem with that claim is that the evidence appears to show that an economy can be made weaker with the state improving its finances at the expense of its citizens. As consumers move into debt, either to finance large costs or simply because their disposable income no longer allows them to meet all their needs, household debt rises to dangerous levels that the OECD associates with an increased risk of recession.
TL;DR
Government going in to surplus weakens and eventually destroys the economy.
A Swiss newspaper is reporting that imprisoned Saudi blogger Raif Badawi could have his sentence of 1,000 lashes suspended, but Amnesty International has yet to confirm the news.
The Swiss Secretary of Foreign Affairs Yves Rossier told the Fribourg daily newspaper La Liberté that Badawi’s sentence was suspended.
“A royal pardon is in the works thanks to the head of state, King Salman bin Abdulaziz Al Saud,” he said.
“Loo explained in a posting on the Labour-aligned political blog, The Standard”
Chris Trotter failing to comprehend the difference between the labour movement and Labour. He is not the first of course. But it isnt a difficult concept
Internally, however, Walmart considered the group enough of a threat that it hired an intelligence-gathering service from Lockheed Martin, contacted the FBI, staffed up its labor hotline, ranked stores by labor activity, and kept eyes on employees (and activists) prominent in the group. During that time, about 100 workers were actively involved in recruiting for OUR Walmart, but employees (or associates, as they’re called at Walmart) across the company were watched; the briefest conversations were reported to the “home office,” as Walmart calls its headquarters in Bentonville, Ark.
As I’ve said before, the real problem of mass surveillance isn’t the government but the corporations. They will watch everything that you do and take action against you and you won’t even know.
“We were told by john key on q&a to support the success of our economy that we have experienced pay increases of 3% on average”
Note the last 2 words. The average goes up a lot when a small group of CEOs get massive rises, but it means nothing for the minimum-wage people who clean their offices. This govt have form for lying about stats.
I ran across a recent essay from The Brothers Krynn, which attempts to map common horror monsters onto the Seven Deadly Sins: https://canadianculturecorner.substack.com/p/horror-monsters-and-vice My interest, however, is not in the meat of the piece, but rather the opening paragraph: It is an interesting fact that in recent decades, Vampires have ...
Buzz from the Beehive Transport Minister Simeon Brown dutifully issued advice to all road users to keep safe on our roads during the Easter weekend. He encouraged them to stay safe, plan their journeys ahead of time, and be patient with other drivers while travelling around this Easter long weekend. ...
Oliver Hartwich writes – New Zealanders recently learned about a new feature film. It will be about former Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern – and taxpayers will subsidise it to the tune of NZ$800,000. Ardern had nothing personally to do with either the film or the subsidy. But her government’s ...
TL;DR: Here’s the top six news items of note in climate news for Aotearoa-NZ this week, and a discussion above that was recorded yesterday afternoon above between and The Kākā’s climate correspondent : An independent review panel into the emergency response to Cyclone Gabrielle in Hawkes Bayconcluded “that ...
There are now only a few days left to give feedback on the Draft Government Policy Statement (GPS) on Land Transport 2024-34 (see our earlier post this week on GPS submission guides). As we’ve reported, the GPS is a disaster for Local Government, so we were particularly interested to hear ...
Willis has pledged to go ahead with the debt-funded tax cuts, despite growing opposition from her own supporters worried about appearing fiscally irresponsible. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāTL;DR: The five things that mattered in Aotearoa’s political economy that we wrote and spoke about via The Kākā and elsewhere for ...
Open access notables A survey of interventions to actively conserve the frozen North, van Wijngaarden et al., Climatic Change:The frozen elements of the high North are thawing as the region warms much faster than the global mean. The dangers of sea level rise due to melting glacier ice, increased ...
Bryce Edwards writes – New Zealand’s biggest-ever political donations scandal is finally at an end. But what is the conclusion? No one can really be sure. The Court of Appeal released its judgement on Tuesday about the Serious Fraud Office case against the NZ First Foundation. On ...
In 2015, then-Prime Minister John Key announced plans for a huge ocean sanctuary around the Kermadec Islands, banning fishing and mining from 15% of Aotearoa's EEZ. It was bold, it was ambitious, and it suggested that National might actually care about the environment. Except they fucked it up: Key failed ...
1. Who has just been given the accolade New Zealander of the Year?a. The Kokakob. The Cook Strait Ferryc. Fair God. Dr Jim Salinger 2. Which of these is an affront to decent society?a. Dame Edna Everageb. Mrs Doubtfire c. Dr. Frank-N-Furterd. Brian 3. Who is Penny Simmonds?a. The aspiring actress in Big ...
New Zealand’s biggest-ever political donations scandal is finally at an end. But what is the conclusion? No one can really be sure.The Court of Appeal released its judgement on Tuesday about the Serious Fraud Office case against the NZ First Foundation. On the face of it, the court found ...
Buzz from the Beehive Waves of rain are set to lash much of the North Island during Easter Weekend as a low-pressure system forms east of New Zealand, according to a weather forecast published in the past day or so. Niwa was warning of a “moisture-laden” long weekend, with rain expected ...
Look around us…Nicola Willis’ promises of balancing the books, of cutting spending without reducing services, and of delivering game changing tax cuts are disappearing before her eyes.Everyday we see stories of violent crime ending in horrific injuries, or worse. The cost of living worsens, whereas the PM claimed renters would ...
TL;DR: My top six news of note on the morning of Thursday, March 28 include:The Government will have to borrow between $10 billion to $15 billion more than previously expected in order to make up for a slowing economy and to pay for $14.9 billion of tax cuts, according to ...
This story by Naveena Sadasivam and Kate Yoder was originally published by Grist and is part of Covering Climate Now, a global journalism collaboration strengthening coverage of the climate story. The long-awaited jobs board for the American Climate Corps, promised early in the Biden administration, will open next month, according to details shared exclusively ...
Should landlords be able to deduct the interest on the loans they take out to bankroll their property speculation? The US Senate Budget Committee and Bloomberg News don’t think this is a good idea, for reasons set out below. Regardless, our coalition government has been burning through a ton of ...
Treasury’s first report on the economy since the change of government presents a damning indictment of Labour’s economic management. The problem for National is that it is so damning that logically, coupled with a rapidly slowing economy, Finance Minister Nicola Willis should respond to it by postponing or even cancelling ...
Budget tensions are becoming evident within the Coalition Government. Winston Peters made numerous political points in his speech to the NZF annual conference. But the attack on his own government’s fiscal policies raised issues of substance. ‘Today in the Sunday Star Times, journalist and former advisor to the Labour ...
Buzz from the Beehive The media – sure enough – have been binging on Finance Minister Nicola Willis’ release of the Budget Policy Statement and a statement headed Government announces Budget priorities This assures us – or rather, this parrots the Luxon team mantra – that the Budget “will deliver ...
The Ides of March brought me COVID followed by a bereavement. No wonder they tell you to be careful of them.I’m home now and have resumed the interrupted recuperation. Very much looking forward to getting back to regular things. Meanwhile, some thoughts…OneThis new Prime Minister guy just keeps getting more dire. ...
News that the Chinese ATP 40 cyber-hacking unit penetrated parliamentary internet networks in 2021 has renewed concerns about the PRC’s malign intentions in Aotearoa. But is the hack that significant given the length of time that has passed since its … Continue reading → ...
When Parliament passed the Intelligence and security Act in 2017, they assured us all that it was full of safeguards. Any intrusive surveillance of New Zealanders would be subject to a "triple lock", requiring the approval of the Minister and (supposedly independent) Commissioner of Intelligence Warrants, as well as post-facto ...
Eric Crampton writes – Richard Harman’s Politik newsletter provides a bit of the context that ought to have been showing up in other media reports on potential reductions in public service staffing. Media has been reporting on staffing cuts on the order of about 7%. Is that ...
Mike Grimshaw writes – It’s becoming increasingly apparent that many perceive free speech to have become the preserve of the politically right wing, the religiously conservative, the libertarian fringe, the anti-trans, the anti-Māori and…. well, just fill in with whatever groups or individuals you don’t like and don’t ...
Don Brash writes – As everybody who is not blind and deaf is aware, there is a huge political preoccupation with climate change at the moment, a widespread (though by no means unanimous) belief that global temperatures are rising mainly as a result of the greenhouse gases created ...
TL;DR: My six things to note in Aotearoa’s political economy on Wednesday, March 27 include:Chris Bishop laid out his vision for filling Aotearoa-NZ’s $100 billion infrastructure deficit in a speech yesterday, emphasising user pays and private funding, but failed to say how to achieve bipartisanship on population, public borrowing and ...
Bryce Edwards writes – Former Finance Minister Grant Robertson and former Prime Minister Chris Hipkins have been conveying how unhappy they are with the tax system. Last week in his valedictory speech, Robertson called for the introduction of a wealth or capital gains tax. And this week Hipkins ...
On February 14, 2023 we announced our Rebuttal Update Project. This included an ask for feedback about the added "At a glance" section in the updated basic rebuttal versions. This weekly blog post series highlights this new section of one of the updated basic rebuttal versions and serves as a ...
Buzz from the Beehive China has loomed large in Beehive considerations over the past 24 hours, largely because of that country’s mischief-making in the cyber espionage department. Two media statements emerged on that subject hard on the heels of the PM baulking at questions put to him on RNZ’s Morning ...
Chris Trotter writes – WHY IS THE NATIONAL PARTY doing so much for landlords, property developers, trucking, and construction companies, and so little for everybody who isn’t already pretty well-off? It’s as if protecting landlords’ investments and building apartments and roads now constitute the whole of National’s ...
Bryce Edwards writes – When she was campaigning to be Minister of Finance last year, Nicola Willis pledged that she would resign from the job if she failed to deliver tax cuts in her first Budget. Now, it’s that pledge, along with Prime Minister Christopher Luxon’s ...
Robert MacCulloch writes – The Reserve Bank has doubled staff numbers in five years to 510, with personnel costs rising to $80 million in 2023 from $32 million in 2018 – up by a whopping 150%. I guess when you print $50 billion and flood markets with liquidity, ...
The furore. In case you didn’t notice there was a controversy in the weekend involving dolphins in a little town off the South Island. Don’t panic, they haven’t declared independence and resumed whaling, this was simply a sailing event.The problem began when racing was cancelled on the opening day of ...
For 20 years or more, the case for a meaningful capital tax gains has been mulled over and analysed to death, including by the tax working group chaired by Sir Michael Cullen. More than once, the International Monetary Fund has said a CGT would be a good idea for New ...
TL;DR: My top 10 news and analysis links this morning include:Today’s must-read: The Public Health Communications Centre (PHCC) call for urgent preventive action and a risk assessment survey of long covid in this briefing noteLocal scoop: NZ road deaths surpass OECD rates, so why is the govt reversing safety plans? ...
This story was originally published by Grist and is part of Covering Climate Now, a global journalism collaboration strengthening coverage of the climate story. This story is part of a collaboration with Grist and WABE to demystify the Georgia Public Service Commission, the small but powerful state-elected board that makes critical decisions about everything from raising ...
This is a guest post from Robert McLachlan Global warming is accelerating; 2023 was off the charts. We need to stop burning fossil fuels. In New Zealand, transport accounts for half of all fossil fuels burnt. In the Emissions Reduction Plan, transport emissions fall 41% by 2035. As the ...
Labour productivity has been receding rapidly over the past two years, reversing a post-lockdown rise. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāTL;DR: My six things to note in Aotearoa’s political economy as at 6:26am on Tuesday, March 26 include:Workers have been treading water in output per hour worked for 12 years, ...
TL;DR: The key events to watch in Aotearoa-NZ’s political economy in the week to April 2 include:Today, Parliament resumes sitting at 2pm for the second week of a two-week session. Officials for SIS and GCSB report their annual reviews in public to the Intelligence and Security Select Committee from 5.10pm.Tomorrow, ...
Faced with a barrage of criticism over the promised tax cuts from usually supportive commentators, Finance Minister Nicola Willis yesterday reaffirmed her intention to include them in this year’s Budget. The Government is up against it over the cuts just about every way it turns. Commentators like Fran O’Sullivan, Matthew ...
Here’s my pick of today’s substack posts as of 6:26pm on Monday, March 25: writes via his substack that Market-rate housing will make your city cheaper writes via his substack about the problems talking to double-cab ute (truck) drivers about their vehicles. today about moments of radicalisation in ...
Buzz from the Beehive Just before Christmas, Finance Minister Nicola Willis delivered something that was pitched as a mini-budget and brayed about the decisive action being taken to repair the Government books and support income tax relief in Budget 2024. In a statement headed Fiscal repair job underway. she introduced ...
My sister Belinda asked Dad yesterday what one word would describe Mum best. He said: vivacious.If you only knew her from the photos on the slideshow we've made for today,you might wonder about that, because the camera tended to lie with Mum.If ever she saw a camera pointed at her, she ...
There are two major public consultations closing in the next week, Auckland Council’s Long Term Plan (LTP), and the draft Government Policy Statement on Land Transport (GPS). Closing dates and times: LTP closes Thursday 28 February, at 11.59pm – a minute to midnight! GPS closes Tuesday 2 April, at 12pm noon – note that’s ...
From Kiwiblog’s David Farrar – Bryce Wilkinson writes: Senior Fellow Bryce Wilkinson’s analysis reveals that since March 2009, New Zealand has spent $158 billion more overseas than it has earned, but its NIIP has only fallen by $32 billion.Statistics New Zealand shows that receipts from overseas reinsurers have ...
Is she hinting that the Coalition Government will have to back down on key promises it made in Opposition? Brian Easton writes – The Minister of Finance, Nicola Willis, is telling an evolving story about her fiscal challenges. In Opposition she was confident that she could ...
Dear Nicola Willis,Right now you’ve probably got lots of competing demands coming at you. Ministers who’ve inherited quite a mess, or so you’ve told us, looking for money in the budget to improve things. I imagine that’s why they came to parliament - to make things better.You’ll have to make ...
The Local Government, Transport and Auckland Minister hasthreatened councils with intervention if they don’t merge water assets to take them off balance sheet, just as the now-repealed Three Waters plan directed. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāTL;DR: My six things of note this morning for Monday, March 25 include:Simeon ...
A listing of 36 news and opinion articles we found interesting and shared on social media during the past week: Sun, March 17, 2024 thru Sat, March 23, 2024. Story of the week Thanks to John Mason having the stamina to sit down to watch "Climate - the Movie" ...
This morning the Q&A programme had Simeon Brown on to talk about National’s replacement for Three Waters. In case anyone’s forgotten the three are - drinking water, waste water, and sewerage. It’s quite important not to get them mixed up. In much the same way that you wouldn’t want to ...
Today’s newsletter comes with a mini-podcast conversation between me and my buddy Liv Tennet, talking about her time as a child actor in Lord of the Rings. It’s a conversation with a lot of giggles as she talks about falling off a horse, and becoming a meme. Read ...
The Desmog Climate Disinformation Database documents, "individuals and organisations that have helped to delay and distract the public and our elected leaders from taking needed action to reduce greenhouse gas pollution and fight global warming." It's a who's who of the organised climate change denial movement, in other words. In ...
Bob Edlin writes – A High Court judge has decided miscreants who have mana – or who claim to have mana – should be treated differently from miscreants who have none. It’s a ruling that suggests indigenous law-breakers have a better chance of securing a discharge without conviction ...
Welcome to the first, and possibly last, edition of Brickbats, Bouquets and Bull’s Wool. In which I’ll take a look at the events of the last week or so, and rate them.In such ratings the numbers usually have more to do with the opinions of the reviewer, than the actual ...
Roger Partridge writes – My earlier column this month, New Zealand’s highest court could be facing a turning point, prompted a flood of feedback from business readers and lawyers alike. A common query was what Parliament can do to restrain an overreaching judiciary. This week I discuss two steps Parliament ...
TL;DR: In today’s ‘six-stack’ of substacks at 6.16pm on Friday, March 22: writes about New Zealand's Building Boom—And What the World Must Learn From It over at his substack. challenges the Auckland Council’s use of a 3.8 degrees of warming forecast to oppose a wave-park and data centre project ...
Is she hinting that the Coalition Government will have to back down on key promises it made in Opposition?The Minister of Finance, Nicola Willis, is telling an evolving story about her fiscal challenges. In Opposition she was confident that she could deliver her promised income tax cuts. Appointed minister, she ...
Buzz from the Beehive Ministers of the Crown have drawn attention to one sector of the science sector which is unlikely to be subjected to heavy spending cuts, a state-funded broadcaster which is doing nicely, thank you, and a sporting event that had $5.4 million from the public purse puffed ...
Abbott’s Freestyle Libre sensors allow continuous glucose monitoring (CGM). The sensor is applied to the back of the patient’s arm, with a thin filament under the skin measuring glucose levels constantly. But it costs around $100 per sensor and must be replaced once every 14 days. Photo by BSIP/Universal Images ...
The Inspector General of Intelligence and Security (IGIS) recently released a report in which he exposes the existence of a foreign intelligence partner-controlled technological “capability” inside the headquarters of the GCSB, NZ’s 5 Eyes-affiliated signals intelligence collection and analysis agency. … Continue reading → ...
Peter Dunne writes – Nearly three decades after the introduction of MMP and multiparty governments there should be a greater level of understanding about their finer points than often appears to be the case. The reaction to the despicable outburst from the Deputy Prime Minister at the weekend highlights ...
The sweet kisses from fruit of summerHave slowly been turning dullerYou say, "those times"And "remember the daysWhen we went outside and there still was the shade?"Taking no reason into play…Autumn. Clear, blue days shortening to longer nights, growing colder. Aotearoa.That’s us. The temperature dropping, the looming car crash - so ...
Bryce Edwards writes – “It is often said that behind every great man is a great woman”. This is the pitch by the National Party Botany electorate branch to attend their “Ladies Afternoon Tea with Amanda Luxon”. For $110 including GST, you can turn up on Saturday 20 April ...
David Farrar writes – The Electoral Commission has published the expense returns for political parties for the 2023 election. I’ve put them in a table with how many votes a party got so we can see the spend per vote. National only spent $3.34 for every vote they got, almost ...
Winston Peters’ headline-making actions over the past week may have been a show of political power intended to strengthen his hand in Budget negotiations. It was no accident that his State of the Nation speech was as it was. He made it as New Zealand First Leader, not as Deputy ...
Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāTL;DR: The five things that mattered in Aotearoa’s political economy that we wrote and spoke about via The Kākā and elsewhere for paying subscribers in the last week included:Former Labour Finance Minister Grant Robertson bowed out of politics this week, giving a series of exit ...
Graham Adams writes — If you love the law or sausages, as the saying goes, best not to look too closely at how they are made. And after watching the orgy of self-pity when Newshub’s closure was announced on February 28, television journalism should definitely be added to the list of those ...
Venerable New Zealand political commentator, Chris Trotter (https://bowalleyroad.blogspot.com/), is a sad creature these days. Once one of the most reliable Leftist writers out there – Economic Left at that – Trotter seems to have absorbed the worldview of Auckland culture-war obsessives. It is not for me to categorise what he ...
The Coalition Government’s plan to ‘get Auckland moving’ is a cuts cover-up that will ultimately cost Aucklanders more to move around the city, says Labour Auckland Issues spokesperson Shanan Halbert. ...
Slashing the Ministry of Pacific Peoples by 40% will have a devastating impact on pacific communities and further highlights how little this government cares about anything other than cutting taxes for the wealthiest few. ...
Labour has proposed an urgent inquiry to investigate the ever-increasing profits of supermarkets, aiming to lower costs for shoppers and food producers alike, says Labour Spokesperson for Commerce and Consumer Affairs Arena Williams and Primary Production Spokesperson Cushla Tangaere-Manuel. ...
With 14% of jobs on the line at the Ministry for Ethnic Communities, the responsible Minister Melissa Lee is failing to stand up for the very communities she’s meant to be representing. ...
COURT OF APPEAL: TRIFECTA OF VICTORY FOR NZ FIRST, TRIFECTA OF FAILURE FOR OPPONENTS For the third time since April 2020, New Zealand First has defeated the Serious Fraud Office and all those complicit in a malicious attack against a political party going about its lawful business in a lawful ...
The Green Party stands with people who live in public housing, people in dire housing need, experts and advocates in demanding better than the Government’s archaic approach to housing those who need our support the most. ...
New Zealand has recently lost the hosting rights of some major international sporting events including the America’s Cup, the Rugby Championship, Netball World Cup, and the Wellington Sevens. We are now at a huge risk of losing SailGP as well. And it won’t stop there. The recent issues with SailGP ...
A Member’s Bill drawn this week would modernise insurance law and make things fairer and more transparent for consumers, Christchurch Central MP Duncan Webb said. ...
The Minister for Disability Issues has confirmed she was aware of funding issues in mid-December and did nothing to stop it. On 14 March, she signed off on changes that were announced and implemented on 18 March without any consultation with disability communities. ...
Green Party MP Julie Anne Genter says her members' bill is an opportunity for the coalition government to plug the gap in electric vehicle incentives. ...
The National Government continues to talk about irresponsible tax cuts that will only drive up inflation, despite the country entering a technical recession. ...
The Minister for Disability Issues must act urgently to reinstate flexibility around the funding for disability support and apologise to disabled carers. ...
This story has been initiated by a leftie shill reporter who proactively sought to call a member of a former band, which disbanded twelve years ago, give their biased appraisal of what was said in my speech, and concocted a ham-fisted attempt at a story that does nothing but show ...
The Government has accepted Labour’s change to the Road User Charge (RUC) discount for hybrid vehicles, meaning there will still be some incentive for people to buy greener vehicles. ...
Many in the mainstream media have taken what was said in New Zealand First’s State of the Nation Speech in Palmerston North on Sunday and deliberately, deceitfully, and ignorantly misrepresented what I said and why I said it. The headlines and commentary on the news stated that I compared ‘co-governance ...
Kicking the most vulnerable people out of state housing and pushing them towards homelessness will result in a proliferation of poverty and trauma across our most vulnerable communities. ...
Te Pāti Māori co-leader and MP for Waiariki, Rawiri Waititi has penned a letter asking MPs to support his members bill to remove GST from all food. The bill is expected to go through its first reading in parliament this Wednesday. “I’m calling on all political parties to support my ...
Good afternoon. Thank you for, in your very busy lives, turning up to this meeting today. On October 14th last year New Zealanders overwhelmingly voted for change. That is exactly what this new government is bringing. New Zealand First campaigned to ‘take back our country’ and stop the disastrous economic ...
This year is about getting real with Kiwis and discussing the tough issues, as the National Government exacerbates inequality and divides New Zealand, Labour Leader Chris Hipkins said ...
The Government adding Significant Natural Areas (SNAs) to its already roaring environmental policy bonfire is an assault on the future of wildlife that makes Aotearoa unique. ...
After 12 years of fighting to protect our moana we are finding ourselves back at square one and back at court. Today, the Environmental Protection Agency is sitting in Hawera to reconsider an application from Trans-Tasman Resources to dig up 50 million tonnes of the seabed in South Taranaki. This ...
Minister Shane Jones’ decision to step away from a seabed mining project is evidence of the murky waters surrounding the Government’s fast-track legislation. ...
The growth of Treaty of Waitangi clauses in legislation caused so much worry that a special oversight group was set up by the last government in a bid to get greater coherence in the publicservice on Treaty matters. When ministers first considered the need for tighter oversight in 2021, there ...
The growth of Treaty of Waitangi clauses in legislation caused so much worry that a special oversight group was set up by the last government in a bid to get greater coherence in the publicservice on Treaty matters. When ministers first considered the need for tighter oversight in 2021, there ...
The Coalition Government’s miscalculation saga continues as it has forgotten an eyewatering $90 million gap in its interest deductibility cost figures, say Labour Finance spokesperson Barbara Edmonds and Revenue Spokesperson Deborah Russell. ...
He Pou a Rangi Climate Change Commission has today released advice that says if the Government doesn’t act now New Zealand is at risk of not meeting its climate goals. ...
The Coalition Government has today confirmed it is abandoning first home buyers who are struggling to get ahead, says Labour Finance spokesperson Barbara Edmonds. ...
Transport Minister Simeon Brown has welcomed the passing of legislation to move light electric vehicles (EVs) and plug-in hybrid electric vehicles (PHEVs) into the road user charges system from 1 April. “It was always intended that EVs and PHEVs would be exempt from road user charges until they reached two ...
New Zealand is strengthening its ability to combat illegal fishing outside its domestic waters and beef up regulation for its own commercial fishers in international waters through a Bill which had its first reading in Parliament today. The Fisheries (International Fishing and Other Matters) Amendment Bill 2023 sets out stronger ...
Economists Carl Hansen and Professor Prasanna Gai have been appointed to the Reserve Bank Monetary Policy Committee, Finance Minister Nicola Willis announced today. The Monetary Policy Committee (MPC) is the independent decision-making body that sets the Official Cash Rate which determines interest rates. Carl Hansen, the executive director of Capital ...
Apartment owners and buyers will soon have greater protections as further changes to the law on unit titles come into effect, Housing Minister Chris Bishop says. “The Unit Titles (Strengthening Body Corporate Governance and Other Matters) Amendment Act had already introduced some changes in December 2022 and May 2023, and ...
Foreign Minister Winston Peters will travel to Egypt and Europe from this weekend. “This travel will focus on a range of New Zealand’s traditional diplomatic and security partnerships while enabling broad engagement on the urgent situation in Gaza,” Mr Peters says. Mr Peters will attend the NATO Foreign ...
Transport Minister Simeon Brown is encouraging all road users to stay safe, plan their journeys ahead of time, and be patient with other drivers while travelling around this Easter long weekend. “Road safety is a responsibility we all share, and with increased traffic on our roads expected this Easter we ...
About 1.4 million New Zealanders will receive cost of living relief through increased government assistance from April 1 909,000 pensioners get a boost to Superannuation, including 5000 veterans 371,000 working-age beneficiaries will get higher payments 45,000 students will see an increase in their allowance Over a quarter of New Zealanders ...
Ensuring social housing is being provided to those with the greatest needs is front of mind as the Government restarts social housing tenancy reviews, Associate Housing Minister Tama Potaka says. “Our relentless focus on building a strong economy is to ensure we can deliver better public services such as social ...
The Kermadec Ocean Sanctuary will not go ahead, with Cabinet deciding to stop work on the proposed reserve and remove the Bill that would have established it from Parliament’s order paper. “The Kermadec Ocean Sanctuary Bill would have created a 620,000 sq km economic no-go zone,” Oceans and Fisheries Minister ...
Dam safety regulations are being amended so that smaller dams won’t be subject to excessive compliance costs, Minister for Building and Construction Chris Penk says. “The coalition Government is focused on reducing costs and removing unnecessary red tape so we can get the economy back on track. “Dam safety regulations ...
The coalition Government is expanding the medium-scale adverse event classification to parts of the North Island as dry weather conditions persist, Agriculture Minister Todd McClay announced today. “I have made the decision to expand the medium-scale adverse event classification already in place for parts of the South Island to also cover the ...
The passing of legislation giving effect to coalition Government tax commitments has been welcomed by Finance Minister Nicola Willis. “The Taxation (Annual Rates for 2023–24, Multinational Tax, and Remedial Matters) Bill will help place New Zealand on a more secure economic footing, improve outcomes for New Zealanders, and make our tax system ...
Science, Innovation and Technology Minister Judith Collins and Tertiary Education and Skills Minister Penny Simmonds today announced plans to transform our science and university sectors to boost the economy. Two advisory groups, chaired by Professor Sir Peter Gluckman, will advise the Government on how these sectors can play a greater ...
The Budget will deliver urgently-needed tax relief to hard-working New Zealanders while putting the government’s finances back on a sustainable track, Finance Minister Nicola Willis says. The Finance Minister made the comments at the release of the Budget Policy Statement setting out the Government’s Budget objectives. “The coalition Government intends ...
The coalition Government will look at options to address a zoning issue that limits how much financial support Queenstown residents can get for accommodation. Cabinet has agreed on a response to the Petitions Committee, which had recommended the geographic information MSD uses to determine how much accommodation supplement can be ...
Cabinet has agreed to a short extension to the final reporting timeframe for the Royal Commission into Abuse in Care from 28 March 2024 to 26 June 2024, Internal Affairs Minister Brooke van Velden says. “The Royal Commission wrote to me on 16 February 2024, requesting that I consider an ...
The coalition Government is delivering an $18 million boost to New Zealanders needing to travel for specialist health treatment, Health Minister Dr Shane Reti says. “These changes are long overdue – the National Travel Assistance (NTA) scheme saw its last increase to mileage and accommodation rates way back in 2009. ...
The Government is recognising the innovative and rising talent in New Zealand’s growing space sector, with the Prime Minister and Space Minister Judith Collins announcing the new Prime Minister’s Prizes for Space today. “New Zealand has a growing reputation as a high-value partner for space missions and research. I am ...
Foreign Minister Winston Peters has confirmed New Zealand’s concerns about cyber activity have been conveyed directly to the Chinese Government. “The Prime Minister and Minister Collins have expressed concerns today about malicious cyber activity, attributed to groups sponsored by the Chinese Government, targeting democratic institutions in both New ...
Independent Reviewers appointed for School Property Inquiry Education Minister Erica Stanford today announced the appointment of three independent reviewers to lead the Ministerial Inquiry into the Ministry of Education’s School Property Function. The Inquiry will be led by former Minister of Foreign Affairs Murray McCully. “There is a clear need ...
State Highway 1 across the Brynderwyns will be open for Easter weekend, with work currently underway to ensure the resilience of this critical route being paused for Easter Weekend to allow holiday makers to travel north, Transport Minister Simeon Brown says. “Today I visited the Brynderwyn Hills construction site, where ...
Introduction Good morning to you all, and thanks for having me bright and early today. I am absolutely delighted to be the Minister for Infrastructure alongside the Minister of Housing and Resource Management Reform. I know the Prime Minister sees the three roles as closely connected and he wants me ...
New Zealand stands with the United Kingdom in its condemnation of People’s Republic of China (PRC) state-backed malicious cyber activity impacting its Electoral Commission and targeting Members of the UK Parliament. “The use of cyber-enabled espionage operations to interfere with democratic institutions and processes anywhere is unacceptable,” Minister Responsible for ...
Foreign Minister Winston Peters and Defence Minister Judith Collins today announced New Zealand will provide logistics support for the upcoming Solomon Islands election. “We’re sending a team of New Zealand Defence Force personnel and two NH90 helicopters to provide logistics support for the election on 17 April, at the request ...
The European Union Free Trade Agreement Legislation Amendment Bill received Royal Assent today, completing the process for New Zealand’s ratification of its free trade agreement with the European Union. “I am pleased to announce that today, in a small ceremony at the Beehive, New Zealand notified the European Union ...
Public consultation on the terms of reference for the Royal Commission into COVID-19 Lessons has concluded, Internal Affairs Minister Hon Brooke van Velden says. “I have been advised that there were over 11,000 submissions made through the Royal Commission’s online consultation portal.” Expanding the scope of the Royal Commission of ...
Hardworking families are set to benefit from a new credit to help them meet their early childcare education (ECE) costs, Finance Minister Nicola Willis says. From 1 July, parents and caregivers of young children will be supported to manage the rising cost of living with a partial reimbursement of their ...
A specialised Independent Technical Advisory Group (ITAG) tasked with preparing and publishing independent non-binding advice on the design of a "green" (sustainable finance) taxonomy rulebook is being established, Climate Change Minister Simon Watts says. “Comprising experts and market participants, the ITAG's primary goal is to deliver comprehensive recommendations to the ...
Defence Minister Judith Collins has thanked the Chief of Army, Major General John Boswell, DSD, for his service as he leaves the Army after 40 years. “I would like to thank Major General Boswell for his contribution to the Army and the wider New Zealand Defence Force, undertaking many different ...
25 March 2024 Minister to meet Australian counterparts and Manufacturing Industry Leaders Small Business, Manufacturing, Commerce and Consumer Affairs Minister Andrew Bayly will travel to Australia for a series of bi-lateral meetings and manufacturing visits. During the visit, Minister Bayly will meet with his Australian counterparts, Senator Tim Ayres, Ed ...
Government commits almost $3 million for period products in schools The Coalition Government has committed $2.9 million to ensure intermediate and secondary schools continue providing period products to those who need them, Minister of Education Erica Stanford announced today. “This is an issue of dignity and ensuring young women don’t ...
Good morning, it’s great to be here. First, I would like to acknowledge the New Zealand Institute of Building Surveyors and thank you for the opportunity to be here this morning. I would like to use this opportunity to outline the Government’s ambitious plan and what we hope to ...
Minister for Pacific Peoples Dr Shane Reti has announced the Government’s commitment to the Auckland Secondary Schools Māori and Pacific Islands Cultural Festival, more commonly known as Polyfest. “The Ministry for Pacific Peoples is a longtime supporter of Polyfest and, as it celebrates 49 years in 2024, I’m proud to ...
Before moving onto the substance of today’s address, I want to recognise the very significant and ongoing contribution the Breast Cancer Foundation makes to support the lives of New Zealand women and their families living with breast cancer. I very much enjoy working with you. I also want to recognise ...
New Zealand has notched up a first with the launch of University of Canterbury research to the International Space Station, Science, Innovation and Technology and Space Minister Judith Collins says. The hardware, developed by Dr Sarah Kessans, is designed to operate autonomously in orbit, allowing scientists on Earth to study ...
Introduction Thank you for inviting me to speak with you today and I’m sorry I can’t be there in person. Yesterday I started in Wellington for Breakfast TV, spoke to a property conference in Auckland, and finished the day speaking to local government in Christchurch, so it would have been ...
The Coalition Government is contributing more than $1 million to support the establishment of an emergency multi-agency coordination centre in Northland. Emergency Management and Recovery Minister Mark Mitchell announced the contribution today during a visit of the Whangārei site where the facility will be constructed. “Northland has faced a number ...
New Zealanders have enjoyed a broader range of voices telling the story of Aotearoa thanks to the creation of Whakaata Māori 20 years ago, says Māori Development Minister Tama Potaka. The minister spoke at a celebration marking the national indigenous media organisation’s 20th anniversary at their studio in Auckland on ...
Commercial catch limits for some fisheries have been increased following a review showing stocks are healthy and abundant, Ocean and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones says. The changes, along with some other catch limit changes and management settings, begin coming into effect from 1 April 2024. "Regular biannual reviews of fish ...
COMMENTARY:By Ronny Kareni Since the atrocious footage of the suffering of an indigenous Papuan man reverberates in the heart of Puncak by the brute force of Indonesia’s army in early February, shocking tactics deployed by those in power to silence critics has been unfolding. Nowhere is this more evident ...
Analysis - Nicola Willis is holding firm on tax cuts despite the economic outlook being worse than forecast and critics urging her to wait, writes Peter Wilson for The Week In Politics. ...
Opposition MPs and unions are criticising a proposal by New Zealand’s Ministry of Pacific Peoples to cut staff by 40 percent. The country’s largest trade union — The Public Service Association — says the ministry has informed staff that it is looking to shed 63 of 156 positions. Opposition MPs ...
A poem by Poetry Aotearoa Yearbook 2024 featured poet Carin Smeaton. Daughtr of the 90s when she gets promoted to usherette a baby blu eel carries her all the way up to mothership she’s hovering high she lets the underaged in to see keanu reeves she lets the only lonely ...
Analysis by Keith Rankin. Keith Rankin, trained as an economic historian, is a retired lecturer in Economics and Statistics. He lives in Auckland, New Zealand. My earlier article – Can ‘Good’ be the Greater Evil? – looked at the issue of how wars should end, and how Good versus Evil ...
The only published and available best-selling indie book chart in New Zealand is the top 10 sales list recorded every week at Unity Books’ stores in High St, Auckland, and Willis St, Wellington.AUCKLAND1 AMMA by Saraid de Silva (Moa Press, $38)A stunning debut novel reviewed by Brannavan ...
From Steve Martin to Ricky Stanicky, a pick’n’mix of things worth watching and listening to this long weekend. This is an excerpt from our weekly pop culture newsletter Rec Room. Sign up here. If you’re at a loss for something to occupy yourself with this Easter, don’t panic: The Spinoff’s got ...
Jesus had dinner with his 12 disciples right before he died. Noted historian Madeleine Chapman finds out who really deserved to be there.First published in 2018 but let’s be honest, the subject is timeless. As you sit on your couch this Easter Sunday, eating a chocolate egg you know ...
The newly-promoted Northern League club is on a mission to return to the National League for the first time in two decades. Plenty about domestic football in New Zealand has changed in that time – but the sense that this amateur competition is not an entirely level playing field remains. ...
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Auckland Council has put a deadline on new weather-impacted property owners applying for categorisation as government funding looks set to run out. Councillors have voted to support a deadline of September 30 for property owners who haven’t accessed support to come forward and engage with the council’s recovery office. It ...
NONFICTION 1 BBQ Economics by Liam Dann (Penguin Random House, $40) “It’s official,” wrote Dann nine days ago in the Herald, where he works as business editor at large, “we’re in recession.” Yeah, great. He delivered the bad stats: “GDP fell 0.1 percent in the December 2023 quarter, compared with ...
Comment: Every year on February 2, a dozen men in tuxedos and top hats approach the burrow of a groundhog in Gobbler’s Knob, Pennsylvania and entice the beaver-like rodent to emerge and predict the weather. If the groundhog, named Punxsutawney Phil, sees its own shadow when it is summoned, legend ...
By Anneke Smith, RNZ News political reporter A petition urging the New Zealand government to provide urgent humanitarian assistance to the Palestinian people has been tabled in the House. More than 200 people gathered on Parliament’s forecourt today and they were met by MPs from Labour, the Greens and Te ...
Pacific Media Watch The Paris-based global media freedom watchdog RSF (Reporters Without Borders) has appealed for information about the “disappearance” of Palestinian journalist Bayan Abusultan. She was reportedly last seen on March 19 among people “sequestered” in this week’s raid and siege of Al Shifa hospital by Israeli troops in ...
EDITORIAL:The Jakarta Post It happens again and again; indigenous Papuans fall victim to Indonesian soldiers. This time, we have photographic evidence for the brutality, with videos on social media showing a Papuan man being tortured by a group of plainclothes men alleged to be the Indonesian Military (TNI) members. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Robyn J. Whitaker, Director of the Wesley Centre for Theology, Ethics, and Public Policy & Associate Professor, New Testament, Pilgrim Theological College, University of Divinity A strange and eclectic range of activities takes place across these few weeks of the year. Some ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Panizza Allmark, Professor Visual & Cultural Studies, Edith Cowan University It’s Easter weekend, which means many of us will be kicking back with the greatest hits on repeat. But whether you’re a boomer, or an ‘80s or ’90s kid, you might be ...
RNZ Pacific Fiji’s Acting Public Prosecutor has filed an appeal against the sentences of former prime minister Voreqe Bainimarama and suspended police chief Sitiveni Qiliho in their corruption case. Bainimarama was granted an absolute discharge for attempting to pervert the course of justice while Qiliho received a conditional discharge with ...
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Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Clare Dix, Research Fellow in Nutrition & Dietetics, The University of Queensland Easter is the time for chocolate. The shops are full of fantastically packaged and shiny chocolates in all shapes and sizes, making trips to the supermarket with children more challenging ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Emma Felton, Adjunct Senior Researcher, University of South Australia Even in a stubborn cost-of-living crisis, it seems there’s one luxury most Australians won’t sacrifice – their daily cup of coffee. Coffee sales have largely remained stable, even as financial pressures have ...
Mining company Trans-Tasman Resources has unexpectedly withdrawn its application for a consent to suck the valuable metals vanadium and titanium from the Taranaki seafloor, as it apparently wagers on the Government’s new fast-track process. It had spent two-and-a-half days putting its case to the Environmental Protection Agency’s decision-making committee, at ...
Contrary to the Associate Minister of Education’s claims, analysis of Healthy School Lunches Programme - Ka Ora, Ka Ako assessments has revealed it provides excellent value for the taxpayer dollar, as a groundswell of public opposition to Government ...
Greenpeace says wannabe Taranaki seabed miner Trans-Tasman Resources is likely banking on Christopher Luxon’s fast-track process to side-step proper scrutiny of its Taranaki seabed mining proposal by bailing out of the Environmental Protection Agency hearing ...
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The Taxpayers’ Union has today made a formal request under the Regulations of the People’s Republic of China on Open Government Information () for information held about how New Zealand Members of Parliament are spending taxpayer ...
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http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11552879
Meanwhile…….in South Auckland a garage/sleepout burned to the ground as scores of gang members partied hard, seemingly uncaring that in destructive, drunken disorder one of their number had caused the blaze.
The Minister for Spoiled White Brats has expressed concern –
“These people seem never to work…..someone else provides all their needs…….and then they strut their indolence and entitlement on Instagram !”
The Herald is obsessed with the son of ‘Dear Leader.’
‘Fire broke out early on Friday on Beachcomber Island, a tiny Fiji resort hosting about 200 Kiwi 20-somethings for a week of partying.’
Or ShonKey is obsessed with getting publicity in whatever way he can – even to the extent of using his own family to do so ! (No other PM in NZ has ever used their family members the way ShonKey does. Its disgraceful!)
And further evidence that the Herald is nothing more than a gossip mag and vehicle for publicising the adventures of the rich and ‘famous’.
Key’s son and 200 other rich young things from NZ have to evacuate luxury resort island is seen as more newsworthy that Cyclone Tuni smashing Samoa.
There is no 4th estate in NZ.
Have a look at the family publicity for your namesake Norman some time.
His wife had her own little column in the Woman’s Weekly. Dead boring trivia that was dropped as soon as Norm died.
Then he was succeeded by his son as MP. Very successful that was if I remember correctly.
Trust Trollwyn to conflate a column in the Womens’ Weekly 43 years ago with the front page of a major daily exercised by notions of a fabulous ‘New Camelot’.
Some ratshit perspective you have there Trollwyn. Was Barbara Hutton your mummy ?
In what way is it “trolling” to point out that the following statement, made by Jenny Kirk is at least arguably untrue?
“No other PM in NZ has ever used their family members the way ShonKey does.”
Other PMs have most definitely done worse, haven’t they? Particularly as you have nor reason to say that Key is in any way involved in what the Herald chooses to publish. Do you really think that Key is responsible for everything that happens?
Why is there so much irrational antipathy to the PM. I thought the opinions about Helen Clark in her day were way over the top but the comments about Key are even worse.
“I thought the opinions about Helen Clark in her day were way over the top but the comments about Key are even worse.”
lol.
I think you forget how daft things got. Books written and pushed by main RW blogs about Calrks fake marriage and quest to destroy the bedrocks of socety coz lesbian, ‘Helengrad’, etc.
Its not even close.
I think any antipathy to the PM is rational and well earned.
It was a troll who made the brazenly false claim about Kelvin Davis, Serco and Corrections about ten days ago, which said troll has not yet acknowledged nor apologised for.
Today……different topic same troll. If ya think Womans’ Weekly 43 years ago really equates to Mr E! Channel and surly offspring……Wow !
As Sabine would say. “Yes Dear”.
alwyn. You know this how? Osmosis, or did you read said columns?
I did read some of them. Believe it or not but the Woman’s Weekly used to be a very good magazine. My wife used to get it in those days.
It turned to total rubbish 30 odd years ago though. They had an editor named Jean Wishart for about 30 years from about 1952 to about 1985. She was unmarried, lived with her mother and apparently had no social life. She had an infallible idea of what New Zealand woman wanted to read though and almost every woman at the time read it. It was also a very advanced mag in its views, being one of the first to publish on abortion and so on.
At its peak, during her reign, it had a circulation of about 250,000.
The columns Ruth Kirk wrote were crap though.
As far as I’m concerned if Key uses his own family for publicity and/or members of his family use him for publicity stunts, then those members are ripe for public judgement when they so deserve.
Max Key is a spoiled brat who needs a big stick poked up him and soon. His ambition is to be a Billionaire. What else need be said.
Little Max obviously got his values from his parents – kids usually do – so if Max’s one ambition in life is to be a billionaire, it says a lot about what is of prime importance to his father I would think! Empty vessels! Sad for Key and his son that they can’t take it with them when they depart this mortal coil!
+111
If his ambition is to be a billionaire you certainly can’t say he is not aiming high.
My ambition at that age wasn’t nearly so great. I simply wanted to be like Janis Joplin and to have a Mercedes.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7tGuJ34062s
Mind you in those days a billion was a lot of money.
I am not sure you completely understood joplin. But you and young Key, generations apart, share something which for me lies at the root of why our system fails our most vulnerable. You both strive for a thing, a symbol of wealth as though it equates to success, so people know you are important. What a waste of potential.
I reckon, I don’t think that song means what you want it to mean, its anti capitalist ya dummy
Gosh, are you sure?
How could I have been so stupid?
Did I need you and Tracey to explain it to me?
Don’t be such a dick you silly little man.
I suppose that next you’ll want to explain to me that Das Kapital isn’t the script for a Marx Brother’s movie.
I most definitely understood Janis Tracey. The only thing I have never understood is why she, and so many others her age overdosed on Heroin.
Doesn’t it worry you that people can’t tell the difference between:
the bits where you’re pretending to be stupid for comedic effect; and
the bits where you try to make a serious point?
To answer you seriously.
Not much. I don’t think people like Gangnam and some others are really as silly as they often seem. Sometimes, just occasionally, they do get things but then they like to pretend they don’t.
Besides I cannot, with the best intentions in the world, get the hang of the smiling faces and so on so it isn’t that easy to highlight it.. And yes I know where the explanation is. I shall have to get a seven year old to explain it to me though.
If Max has a genuine ambition to be a billionaire, then he certainly doesn’t seem to be doing the things that he would need to do to become one.
He has got the first step out of the way. Be born to rich parents. After all it is making the first million that is the hardest.
I rather prefer the similar story about the patron saint of Paris, St Denis. He was being led off to his place of execution when the Roman soldier decided he didn’t want to waste any more time and decapitated him a couple of miles before the designated spot. If you believe in miracles you may accept the story that he picked up his head and continued on the journey.
Of that feat it was said that
“The distance doesn’t matter; it is only the first step that is the most difficult”.
On the other hand I really cannot get in the slightest bit interested in young Max. Thank goodness the Dom/Post doesn’t waste ink on him. He has got enough going on not to be abused by people who only dislike him because of who his father is.
Very few people are billionaires. There’s a huge amount of luck involved, but also you basically have to start and run your own company. Max has no real barriers to starting and running his own company; the fact that he hasn’t done so already, if he truly is set on being a billionaire, shows that he doesn’t really have what it takes.
True . He is 20 according to Google, the age Gates was when Microsoft was founded.
On the other hand he may not be Bill Gates. Paul Allan was all of 22 when they started I believe.
However the rest of what you say is spot on. You need much more than simply an attitude of I want to be rich and I deserve it. Poor little bugger. He’s always going to be compared with his father. Not quite like being J D Rockefeller JUNIOR but it might feel like that.
I don’t honestly care what his ambition is – as long as he doesn’t hurt anyone or cause damage in his pursuit of it.
Becoming and staying a billionaire inherently hurts many people and causes huge amounts of damage as the only way to do so is to steal from as many people as possible while encouraging massive over use of resources.
Too late. The space he takes in news columns could be used publicising the real plight, and treatment of, the vulnerable, instead of championing a self indulgent and mostly unattainable lifestyle.
Anne. lol Just saw photo of young MaxiKey relaxing in string hammock. Looks like has a stick uphim. Hate to see him when he is Not relaxed. Actually feel a little big sorry for the wee boy. For God’s sake, what is our media coming to. Angry!!
Key chooses this exposure, max plays along so it’s on them if this strategy has untoward repercussion down the line.
Note the women stay well away from this boys game, Bronagh does the required minimum aside hubby.
Bronagh does what she is told.
My impression to Ffloyd.
Yes I saw that one Paul @ (1.1).
Had another of many FFS moments I’m having at present, regarding FJK and the irrelevant fruit of his loins!
Who gives a big rat’s what mini me Key is doing anyway? NZH seems to give him plenty of attention though, at the expense of the real news I’d say. On whose orders I wonder? The “puppeteer” perhaps?
It may simply be that the Herald only gets its media now through Instagram, Twitter and Facebook and that they follow certain people’s pages.
If ever anyone wanted to highlight how appalling the media in this country has become, then this would take the biscuit.
Remember it would have focused on instead global rallies around the world and in NZ prior to the Paris Climate talks.
However, stalking Key’s son’s site is seen by the editor at the Herald as more important.
Heh, the Max articles… shows something is very wrong/sick in our politics and media, maybe just society in general. Although there’s still plenty of good people out there improving society in areas that matter in real life.
So Shipley thinks it’s time to change the flag: “Do they need need someone else to speak for them or can we as New Zealanders speak for ourselves ? I expect to speak for myself,” Shipley said. (Today’s SST pg5).
She will be disappointed if we cling to something that’s “got a dubious past in it’s origin and speaks to a time, where, frankly, it is completely irrelevant today”.
I would have thought her “young spirited, fleet-footed” nation might like to have a wider discussion about cutting ties to the anachronistic and irrelevant monarchy and (again) ditching an honours system based on ties to Britain and our colonial past.
Interestingly nowhere in this “piece” is she referred to as “Dame” – just “former prime minister Jenny Shipley”. Why is that?
Perhaps because the logic disconnect might be even more apparent?
Shipley and her cronies destroyed NZ..
Guyon on the Nation panel could not imagine a reason why the current policy towards kiwis in oz was bad. Yet magnificent debated the nuances of Keys survival.
Strange that nobody pulls up the Liberal Australian party on its undermining the free trade between us, as risks and costs force kiwis living there and others, to be mindful of how easily they could be exposed, by losing employees or family members to extradition, or having to carry their own kids in uni or health care, unemployment while paying for everyone else’s.
Its not so much that they are incompetent its just that the right has always had a easy ride, how do you figure Thatcher, zombie zero, got such a easy time and still does.
it was under Shipley that the whole flag changing thingy started. Was it not then that she had to resign because of inappropriate dealings with one of the Saatchi and Saatchi Brothers?
So clearly, she would not have given up the idea…and just wants it now, like the rest of the corporate Posse that disguises as the National Party.
I have no words to describe Shipley that would not get me banned.
Were you planning to praise her then?
That would be likely to have a ban imposed.
Ah yes, that long standing rule on The Standard:
#4 No talking up Shipley. Srs.
I know what you mean. I had to edit my post several times to tone it down.
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http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=11552297
Someone tell me I’m hallucinating … please.
Nash is in the wrong party.
Labour has no problem embracing the far right of the political spectrum. It’s become increasingly farcical as time goes on.
yes, dear
Mockery of cv is not an actual argument.
Many people agree with cv’s view of thr Labour Party.
How else do you explain Labour’s embrace of neo-liberalism for 30 years?
🙄
Lab4 – no contest. Complete capture. But since then Labour has been at most middle-right, generally middle-left.
Saying Labour currently participates in an “embrace of neo-liberalism” misunderstands the concept of neo-liberalism, the concept of an embrace, or both.
Yes, for some commenters here to agree with Labour it would involve a long walk to the right for the commenters or a long walk to the left for Labour. But the starting points are relative – for Labour to be objectively “far right” it would share most of its policy manifesto with someone like Rand Paul. And yes, Labour is currently well to the left of Rand Paul.
all that’s happened is that market driven neoliberalism has become normalised in society and in politics. Even some Lefties have become habituated to it.
Spot on.
Evidence of the Stockholm Syndrome on this site.
Planned Parenthood clinics sell embryonic tissue. It must be true because it uses the same rhetorical devices you do.
What on earth are you talking about?
Maybe that reciting catechism doesn’t make it true.
Paul, I’m talking about CV’s dishonest and destructive rhetorical devices and their equivalents in National Party values land.
OAB, you’d bloody know mate.
“Saying Labour currently participates in an “embrace of neo-liberalism” misunderstands the concept of neo-liberalism, the concept of an embrace, or both.”
Disagree. As I define it a political party embraces Neo-liberalism when they accept and follow economic policies dictated by main-stream neo-classical economics. These include,
1) A belief that governments like NZ face a budget constraint (e.g can run out of money).
2) A belief that governments should respond to financial crisis by cutting back spending.
3) A belief that governments deficits must ultimately drive inflation up.
4) A belief that full-employment can be achieved purely by using monetary policy (e.g the NAIRU rate of unemployment is a full employment level of unemployment).
Labour has endorsed all these through current and prior policies, at least since the time when Roger Douglas became minister for Finance.
For example,
* The Cullen fund is the government stoking its investment reserves in order to avoid running a later deficit.
* The last term they campaigned on a policy to up the retirement age, because they believe the country can’t afford the present age.
* Labours Kiwisaver policy is primarily a way to get pensioners income off the government books, and to be self dependent.
* Labour has constantly criticized the National government for running a deficit in response to the financial crisis, and highlighted that they ran surpluses themselves.
* Labour promised to get back into surplus faster that National during the previous election campaign.
* Labour is constantly looking for ways to increase their tax take, based on a desire to spend more, clearly they don’t understand that the tax take doesn’t need to increase for more social spending to go ahead.
* Labour in no way modified how treasury functions with regard to spending and the level of employment, from the present government.
People denying Labour’s capture by neo-liberal forces are in denial.
It is sad to see their inability to admit this.
And people who insist that Labour are full of neolibs are fllowing the fine left wing tradition of damning their closest political neighbours as their worst enemies.
Labour is full of neolibs. Where is the socialist wing of the Labour Party? Exactly: it doesn’t exist.
So if you’re not a socialist you must be a neoliberal?
So, looking at your track record, CV, how long do you think it will be before you solemnly declare yourself the only true leftie on the planet, and the other seven billion of us are neoliberals (except putin because he’s ever so manly)?
That’s a belief hardly restricted to Rogernome neoliberals. It’s actually pretty reasonable
Not sure that applies to the current Labour party.
see 2
Non-Accelerating Inflation Rate of Unemployment is calculated by treasury etc for nz at 6-8% of unemployment. The current and previous nats ran that level, Lab5 didn’t.
All of that is a bit like the EQC, saving up for a rainy day (in the case of the cullen fund, the supposed demographic bubble). The EQC was formed in 1945. By your logic the first Labour government was neoliberal.
Labour is criticising national for running a deficit in order to give tax cuts to the rich. That’s different to arguing for economic retrenchment in response to an economic downturn. Labour wants a bigger tax take to provide more services.
what do you mean by “how treasury functions with regard to spending and the level of employment”?
That’s a belief hardly restricted to Rogernome neoliberals. It’s actually pretty reasonable
Only superficially reasonable until you ask the question – where does money come from?
as I said, many lefties buy straight into orthodox economic and monetary frameworks.
It’s not where the money comes from, it’s what the money can be exchanged for.
“That’s a belief hardly restricted to Rogernome neoliberals. It’s actually pretty reasonable”
Its not pretty reasonable it’s bunk. The NZ government literally operates the only institution which creates NZ dollars. It can’t run out of them. The optimal level of government spending (and taxation) has nothing to do with government surplus or deficit. Its to do with the economic outcomes which the government achieves by it.
“Non-Accelerating Inflation Rate of Unemployment is calculated by treasury etc for nz at 6-8% of unemployment. The current and previous nats ran that level, Lab5 didn’t”
So you can point to any times when Labour ran lower than the NAIRU rate calculated contemporaneously? Note the NAIRU (despite being alleged to be a structural rate) appears to just track current unemployment with a lag.
“By your logic the first Labour government was neoliberal.”
It would depend on the overall balance of their policies, where the focus is. I have gone through a decent list of the Labour headlines here of course.
“Labour is criticising national for running a deficit in order to give tax cuts to the rich. That’s different to arguing for economic retrenchment in response to an economic downturn. ”
The National party Tax/GST changes don’t add up to the deficit. They were probably around fiscally neutral on balance (they were expected to be fiscally neutral), this leaves Labour arguing for economic retrenchment in response to the (ongoing) economic downturn.
“Labour wants a bigger tax take to provide more services.”
This is premised on your belief in 1) of course.
“how treasury functions with regard to spending and the level of employment”
Treasury forecasts and the budgeting process set limits on the amount of deficit spending that the government does in order to keep the level of unemployment above the NAIRU rate, essentially. Its hardly a surprise that this is left unexplained by the government of the day (that they have calculated an ideal level of unemployment, and no there will not be enough jobs to go around actually).
I agree that government spending reflects the will of the government, but to argue that because NZ creates dollars has a limitless supply of cash on hand is bullshit. When Spain had a massive supply of silver from America that the rest of europe didn’t have access to, all that happened was the Spanish pissed it away so much that the price of silver plummeted.
Most of the fifth labour government had an unemployment rate below 6%.
You’ve cherry=picked a few Labour policies and beliefs that you ascribe to Labour. It still looks to me like labour now are nowhere near rogernomes, so aren’t “far right” as CV called them.
Lol “fiscally neutral” – now who’s repeating tory memes? If the lower money out is the same as the GST increase, do I really need to explain the regressive effects of GST?
A bit like your belief that magic money can be printed without taking into account devaluation effects.
Treasury forecasts are well known for what they are. Labour got rid of a lower minimum wage expressly for young workers even though treasury forecast an increase in youth unemployment.
Seems some progress has been made,
“I agree that government spending reflects the will of the government, but to argue that because NZ creates dollars has a limitless supply of cash on hand is bullshit.”
It clearly means exactly that. This is quite important to understand from a rhetorical point of view as it changes the argument substantially. You are no longer talking about some kind of hard limit which might be imposed by bankruptcy, but the need for the government to regulate its policy based on the consequences of its spending. These include all of inflation, foreign exchange and employment consequences. But the onus is now on your position to demonstrate that for some level of spending negative consequences will likely occur in fact.
Note, using an example from currency system based on silver (a commodity) is probably a poor analogy for sovereign currency because you now need to take into account that silver is in common use by several countries at the time. This has effects on the exchange rate. Its unlikely that sovereign currencies work like this as most of the product which can be purchased in say NZ$ comes from NZ.
“Most of the fifth labour government had an unemployment rate below 6%.”
The NAIRU was below 6% for their term. Here are some estimates, they fluctuate over time. http://www.treasury.govt.nz/publications/research-policy/wp/2004/04-10/06.htm#_TocF2
“Lol “fiscally neutral” – now who’s repeating tory memes? If the lower money out is the same as the GST increase, do I really need to explain the regressive effects of GST?”
Clearly fiscally neutral simply means they traded the amount of tax they collect from income over to GST. This would probably have influenced the further direction of the economy, absolutely. But saying that all or almost all of the deficit can be attributed to the taxation change, or even the downward effects of the tax change, is incorrect. NZ would still have a large deficit if this tax policy had not been applied, but other policy had. You do know what fiscally neutral literally means right?
“A bit like your belief that magic money can be printed without taking into account devaluation effects.”
No, just run of the mill high powered money, and the onus is on your position to show that the devaluation effects will likely occur. At present NZ has inflation at the low end of the target range, and is trying to run a surplus. Given your own opinions, being presently demonstrated, why would Labour do any different?
“Labour got rid of a lower minimum wage expressly for young workers even though treasury forecast an increase in youth unemployment.”
Relevance?
It would be much better if you stopped extrapolating straw men out of what I have said, and take it to mean what is says, neither more nor less.
Funny, I thought that the onus was on you to support the idea that Labour is neoliberal.
Ok, so let’s say that the government issues 200 billion NZ$ in order to pay for a space programme next year. Unlimited supply of money, fine. So now what happens to the economy, in your opinion? At least citizens of Weimar had a plentiful supply of toilet paper.
Nope. Silver or gold currencies don’t have an exchange rate, because they are worth that weight of silver. The point I was making was simply that when you have a means of exchange, the value of that means of exchange is related to its scarcity. The practical supply needs to be restricted in order for the currency to act as a currency – dramatic oversupply would simply lead to the end of its utility as a currency.
That wasn’t a forecast. Like most economists, Treasury are very good at ensuring the past matches their personal econo-religious doctrine.
I do. They weren’t.
No, the deficit is not entirely due to national party tax cuts. I never said it was. But the nat cuts and the cullen cuts didn’t exactly help, did they?
Oh, now money varies in power?
Simply that Labour do not universally obey Treasury dictats, and therefore that your comment about Treasury setting “limits” on government economic policy isn’t particularly accurate.
Treasury is extremely right wing – Labour aren’t.
“Ok, so let’s say that the government issues 200 billion NZ$ in order to pay for a space programme next year. Unlimited supply of money, fine. So now what happens to the economy, in your opinion? ”
What happens would depend on the capacity of the economy to produce a space program (and nothing I have said indicates 200 billion is anything but a ridiculus hysterical figure you made up). But no doubt the parts of the economy which were stretched to capacity would raise prices and a lot of people would be employed in the space program. Unless the economy is presently running at full capacity then there is currently room for the government to spend more and provide more jobs, which means not running a surplus in these circumstances. But this is not to do with the quantity of money, the quantity theory of money (which you are alluding to) is originally a central part of monetarism. You may be trying to convince people that Labour is not neo-liberal, but what you are showing is that you have strong and deep seated neo-liberal ideas yourself.
“Silver or gold currencies don’t have an exchange rate, because they are worth that weight of silver. ”
They have an exchange rate for every currency which maintains convertibility then don’t they.
“The point I was making was simply that when you have a means of exchange, the value of that means of exchange is related to its scarcity. The practical supply needs to be restricted in order for the currency to act as a currency – dramatic oversupply would simply lead to the end of its utility as a currency.”
Really? You are aware that the inflation theory this implies demands that ‘rational’ economic agents respond to the quantity of money, or even high powered money. Most economic agents (people) are not even aware how much the government spends or is in debt. Your theory is about as in feasible as the efficient markets hypothesis and has bugger all evidence going for it. Its not even the theory used by central banks these days. Central banks target the rate money is loaned at not its quantity.
“That wasn’t a forecast. Like most economists, Treasury are very good at ensuring the past matches their personal econo-religious doctrine.”
You keep claiming that by keeping the unemployment rate below 6% Labour kept the unemployment rate below the NAIRU. This depends on the NAIRU being 6% or there abouts, which it wasn’t. You are incorrect.
“Oh, now money varies in power?”
Its a standard term, look it up.
If we have a limitless money supply, 200billion is at the lower end of the potential. A UBI that several authors here advocate might cost $40billion a year. Hell, let’s just create 50trillion a year and be the richest nation on the planet.
lol
That would be one of those irregular verbs: I build straw men from your statements, whereas you say my statements are “alluding to” something random.
Even Keynes suggested reductions in interest rates as part of a solution to a downturn. Was he a neoliberal, too? The first Labour government raised taxed to finance their spending – were they neoliberals, too?
Nope. There is no “exchange rate” because one currency is not exchanged for another, it’s a universal currency by weight of silver.
People notice when silver plummets in value, or a loaf of bread costs a billion marks. So they use someo ther currency or barter instead.
If you want to demonstrate that treasury forecasts set limits on Labour policy, feel free to point to an actual forecast. A weather forecaster who told you is has been raining is always right. One who’ll tell you, accurately, how much it will rain tonight – that’s the one you want.
“If we have a limitless money supply, 200billion is at the lower end of the potential. A UBI that several authors here advocate might cost $40billion a year. Hell, let’s just create 50trillion a year and be the richest nation on the planet.”
We do (the government does) have a limitless money supply, however nothing I have written indicates that spending will never cause inflation. That’s where you just go off and create a straw man and then knock it down.
“That would be one of those irregular verbs: I build straw men from your statements, whereas you say my statements are “alluding to” something random.”
If your having trouble with english words I suggest a dictionary. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/allude
If your having trouble with theories I have referred to I suggest looking them up.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantity_theory_of_money
“Even Keynes suggested reductions in interest rates as part of a solution to a downturn. Was he a neoliberal, too? The first Labour government raised taxed to finance their spending – were they neoliberals, too?”
I don’t remember implying that governments who manipulate interest rates are neo-liberal, or that governments which collect taxes are neo-liberal. You should make some attempt in future to make some sense because what you are saying is not particularly coherent and does not address the arguments I put.
you can do it for me – while you’re looking up the definition of “forecast”.
So, of your four characteristics of neoliberals, I think that Labour does indeed have “a belief that governments like NZ face a budget constraint”, although I don’t think the fear is so much of running out of money as it is trashing the economy. And I don’t think that fear is unique to neoliberals, as Lab1 also believed in budget constraints.
of the rest:
feel free to point to that in Labour policy
Given that ties in to 1), see above
feel free to point to that in Labour policy
McFlock, you’re illustrating exactly why the Left has been captured by the economic and monetary thinking frameworks of the Right.
Under these frameworks, it makes sense to cut NZ Super. It makes sense to under fund DHBs. It makes sense to make students pay more for their education.
As recent Labour policy attests to.
Actually, it illustrates something else entirely.
25 years ago a few left wing parties recognised their shared objectives as well as their differences and joined together to keep a left wing voice in parliament even under an FPP system.
Now, apparently, anyone who doesn’t immediately accept the A+B theorem at face value is to be denounced as a “neoliberal”.
After all, several of these supposedly “neoliberal” ideas were apparently practised by the first Labour government, goddamned tories that they were…
http://campaign.labour.org.nz/everything_is_paid_for_plus_we_re_in_surplus
The headline really says it all, but anyway from here.
1) Labour won’t spend without taxation,
“Make sure the highest income New Zealanders and corporations pay their fair share of tax so we can afford to invest in health, education, and upgrading the economy”
2) Labour won’t spend to increase employment,
“Limit operating spending from new policies to less than the new operating spending allowances projected in Budget 2014 plus the net increase in revenue resulting from new policies,”
4) See Lab5 term. Surpluses = leaving it entirely up to monetary policy to support employment.
3) Absolutely no criticism for Bill English many assertions and rhetoric that government spending will drive up inflation, and force interest rates up! Meanwhile inflation is still at the low end of the RBNZ targets and seems to be falling. They could be pointing to that for a start.
Or on Treasury as a constraint of Labour policy (even while in opposition),
https://www.labour.org.nz/sites/default/files/issues/labours_alternative_budget_0.pdf
“Underlying every number in this paper are Treasury’s projections for the economy and the Crown accounts; we haven’t created our own projections, simply laid the fiscal effects of our policies on top of Treasury’s”
So good old vanilla right wing economic constraint on Labour’s alternative budget. While in office of course they prepare the budget together (Gee, I wonder how that goes).
“Now, apparently, anyone who doesn’t immediately accept the A+B theorem at face value is to be denounced as a “neoliberal”.”
I was quite explicit about what kind of policy is considered neo-liberal for this reason. Its not just policy I don’t agree with, its a particular kind policy, strongly aligned with main-stream economic thinking. I guess its not surprising that you don’t agree with this given your economic beliefs appear to align well enough with the same main-stream economic thinking and you don’t want to label yourself neo-liberal.
“After all, several of these supposedly “neoliberal” ideas were apparently practised by the first Labour government, goddamned tories that they were…”
As I clearly said multiple times its a combination not just one policy or idea. Another straw man argument by you, not an argument I have put forward.
A tendency they’ve had since before the first Labour government.
reread the bit in italics, then refer to point 1 again.
Those two things do not equal each other. The first means money in is greater than money out. The second means not spending anything, just adjusting the OCR.
Seriously? The evidence you have is that Labour haven’t criticised National in exactly the way you want, so that’s evidence they’re neoliberals?
Or it just says that even by the tory standards it’s a better budget than what national can deliver. That’s not neoliberal – that’s pointing out the nats are shit at their own game. If they hadn’t used underlying treasury projections, the they’d open themselves to claims they were using outlandish figures. That’s middle of the road, not far right.
More of the “if not with us then against us” rhetoric.
So is “main-stream economic thinking” simply “neoliberal” then? I’m not so sure about that, what with Stiglitz, Piketty etc.
Did you miss my fraunhofer line comment?
The thing is that most of your examples of offending policy were practised by Lab1. So you actually are left with just one or two Labour policies that might be regarded as being to the right of the politico-economic spectrum.
If Labour were truly “far right”, they would have gone into minority coalition with the nats rather than tolerate the renationalisation of kiwirail or the founding of kiwibank. They would have continued privatisations, shrunk the size of the public service, and so on.
“So is “main-stream economic thinking” simply “neoliberal” then? I’m not so sure about that, what with Stiglitz, Piketty etc.”
Mostly it is. But I would suggest that economists like Stiglitz, Piketty could reasonably be excluded, mostly because they have mostly submitted criticism’s of it.
“Did you miss my fraunhofer line comment?”
No, I dismissed it. It makes little sense to say that you can’t differentiate between political parties because they all have policies dispersed across the political spectrum. Its also not true, if you believed it yourself you could not tell any difference between Labour and National (or any other political party) based on their policies (which are all purportedly scattered across the political spectrum). You clearly don’t believe that yourself.
“If Labour were truly “far right”, they would have gone into minority coalition with the nats rather than tolerate the renationalisation of kiwirail or the founding of kiwibank. They would have continued privatisations, shrunk the size of the public service, and so on.”
If politics was a pure competition in similar ideas, then maybe. But then again if that was what it was no doubt Labour would have gone into government with the Green’s rather than agreeing confidence and supply. What you are suggesting ‘would happen’ doesn’t seem like its a very good strategy for political parties in practice. Look at what has happened to the Lib Dems in the UK, or the Maori party in NZ when they go into coalition with the ‘other side’ it doesn’t usually work out very well at the next election.
“Labour won’t spend without taxation,” Fair enough this was not clear enough. I should have said,
Labour won’t commit to additional spending without additional taxation.
“Labour won’t spend to increase employment,”or this one should have been, Labour won’t commit additional spending to increase employment. Note, if your taxing as much as your additional spending (as Labour promises) then this means little to no net effect on employment. Put another way, however much employment the market is currently providing, that’s as much as your getting under Labour.
“Those two things do not equal each other. The first means money in is greater than money out. The second means not spending anything, just adjusting the OCR.”
If the government is running a surplus they are extracting spending from the economy and this leaves all support for employment up to monetary policy. No government can do zero spending annually, it simply doesn’t work (or happen).
“Or it just says that even by the tory standards it’s a better budget than what national can deliver. That’s not neoliberal – that’s pointing out the nats are shit at their own game. If they hadn’t used underlying treasury projections, the they’d open themselves to claims they were using outlandish figures. That’s middle of the road, not far right.” – McFlock
“Treasury is extremely right wing – Labour aren’t” – McFlock
What else do treasury do (which they are extremely right wing at) if its not economic budgets and forecasting?
Lucky that’s not the point of the analogy, then. Astrophysicists can differentiate between stars using Fraunhofer lines. To a certain degree that’s their main use: determining the composition of individual stars so we know more about those stars.
So Labour are “far right” in principle, just not in practise because that would lose them votes?
Unless money is taxed from unproductive areas like capital gains and people on high incomes and given to people who immediately recirculate most of their money into local spending rather than hoarding it or betting on the stockmarket. Take the money from the money sinks and redistribute it back through the regions.
Taxing the rich extracts corporate investment money from the economy, and giving it to the poor injects spending money because poor people spend all their income often within the week they get it.
You sort of miss the point that Labour overlaid their plans for housing market reform, expanding free primary healthcare, R&D tax credits, and power market reform and all the rest of it on top of treasury’s bunk forecasts and it still added up better than National managed. Many of the individual policies are anathema to the neolib userpays mentality.
“To a certain degree that’s their main use: determining the composition of individual stars so we know more about those stars”
You’d want to be careful about this analogy of course, taken too far it could be that Labour has neo-liberal materials making it up. We might detect this based on policies it ’emits’.
Using physics analogies to ‘model’ politics is of course of pretty limited value. My main point is that the notion political parties just form together based on wanting to implement their policies (which of course they are always truthful about) is not correct and simplistic. Labour and National will always see themselves and act in competition, and some significant examples of parties going with the other side have resulting in follow up routes. If its reasonable politics or not, ‘turn-coat’ parties frequently lose a large chunk of support.
“So Labour are “far right” in principle, just not in practise because that would lose them votes?”
This seems to be where your going wrong, the mainstream of economics is not the ‘far right’ of politics. It is neo-liberal however which is as I stated in my earliest comments neo-classical economics. I heard a statement recently, from economics circles, to the effect of, that there had been no ‘left-wing’ appointments in NZ university economics departments in the last 20 years or so. This also accords with things as I put them.
“Unless money is taxed from unproductive areas like capital gains and people on high incomes and given to people who immediately recirculate most of their money into local spending rather than hoarding it or betting on the stockmarket. Take the money from the money sinks and redistribute it back through the regions”
Good luck with that. I think you will find that standard income tax is not nearly so specific about what is collected, or progressive in action.
“Taxing the rich extracts corporate investment money from the economy, and giving it to the poor injects spending money because poor people spend all their income often within the week they get it”
Maybe, its still doesn’t provide as much stimulation as not adding any taxes and spending the money anyway, however. Its also very difficult to use government policy to target spending effectively because government policies are by necessity quite a blunt instrument.
“You sort of miss the point that Labour overlaid their plans for housing market reform, expanding free primary healthcare, R&D tax credits, and power market reform and all the rest of it on top of treasury’s bunk forecasts and it still added up better than National managed. Many of the individual policies are anathema to the neolib userpays mentality”
What do you mean by added up better? Nobody really knows what’s going to happen when the budget is implemented. Labour had a large tax component in its policies, maybe the economy will react particularly negatively to the additional taxation and tank resulting in higher unemployment under Labour than we have today. Anyway if you are following Treasury on this then the overall fiscal balance is at best long run neutral, so your over-all fiscal balance is effectively neo-liberal economic policy.
I am reliably informed that before the Douglas era, governments used to follow Keynesian prescriptions and those included not paying as much attention to the surplus/deficit as to the unemployment/employment rate (and that was during an era of fixed exchange rates to boot). As I see it any party which perpetuates that has sold its political soul to the neo-liberals and will continue to be a part of the problem (regardless of its intentions).
Of course it does. The Chairman, for example, pointed out that Labour did some work on PPPs. But as you have noted it’s not down to one policy “element”, it’s the full package – I’m sure if we squint hard we’d find some left wing “elements” as well.
But on the other hand, the full neoliberal governments of the last thirty years implement their policy objectives with very little compromise for electability or even the observed consequences of those policies. Douglas etc in Lab4. Shipley answering reporters’ questions about 1XXk unemployment with the desperate mantra “the market will correct itself”. Even the current nat government implements its policy without much compromise and operates the election campaigns in a manner disconnected from policy.
Neo-liberal isn’t far right? You might want to tell that to CV.
It’s better than GST, even at current rates with current bands. So your “fiscally neutral” (not) tax cut still had a detrimental effect on employment.
Indeed, if that weren’t the seed of its own problems (and believing that isn’t particularly right wing or neoliberal).
Actually, they can be quite precise: you have unemployment in Northland, so you build roads and infrastructure in Northland. You increase benefits to the unemployed, and that money is immediately spent in predominantly economically depressed areas.
I pay little attention to Treasury. And again, you seem to be calling balancing the government books a neolib fetish that wasn’t a concern prior to 1984. Is that your position, or are you arguing something else?
edit: “adding up better” – looking better than the nats in their own dogma, with less economic fudging, and still providing better social policy.
And besides, if capital flight occurs, good riddance to ’em /edit
Okay, if pre-Lange governments didn’t pay much attention to deficits, which of them had higher crown debt (gorss, net, absolute or %gdp, whatever makes you happy) levels than the current lot? And why did the second labour government bother with the “black budget” if it was happy to just print more cash?
BTW, just while I remember: thanks for the discussion – it has made me question some of my assumptions and look into knowledge gaps I hadn’t really noticed before. 🙂
“It’s better than GST, even at current rates with current bands. So your “fiscally neutral” (not) tax cut still had a detrimental effect on employment.”
When I point to the fact they were (arguably) fiscally neutral I am not disputing that this shift towards GST had negative effects on employment.
“Okay, if pre-Lange governments didn’t pay much attention to deficits, which of them had higher crown debt (gorss, net, absolute or %gdp, whatever makes you happy) levels than the current lot?”
I don’t think looking at crown debt is a very good measure here, because it can start from low levels, or debt might not be issued. Ideally you can look at the deficit using something resembling modern accounting, but that gets more difficult the further back you go in time.
But this is a good reference with statistics to the sorts of policies I suggest. http://socialdemocracy21stcentury.blogspot.co.nz/2011/09/keynesian-stimulus-in-new-zealand.html
It might also be noted how one of the main legacies of Muldoon was the think big projects, which were already much more Keynesian than the following Labour government.
“And why did the second labour government bother with the “black budget” if it was happy to just print more cash?”
The black budget was associated with a balance of payments crisis. This is usually associated with a need to devalue a fixed exchange rate. Similar things have been observed to occur for both fixed exchange rate mechanisms and gold/silver standard systems, where the government faces a difficult choice between devaluing or cutting back stimulus probably increasing unemployment.
Because NZ floats its exchange rate this is much less of a big deal for the NZ economy these days. The devaluation effects are less strong under a floating exchange rate because when speculators see a likely event of a devaluation they want to cash out immediately (rather than waiting for the devaluation) which puts additional drain on the reserves. So on a gold standard, if it becomes clear that the government is unable to maintain it and is likely to devalue, then speculators want to cash out immediately at the higher exchange rate and this drains gold out putting additional pressure on the exchange rate.
“And again, you seem to be calling balancing the government books a neolib fetish that wasn’t a concern prior to 1984. Is that your position, or are you arguing something else?”
This is absolutely my position, yes. Balancing the books is a neolib fetish. The IMF for example provides loads of documentation supporting this contention.
I think you subscribe to a theory of the institution of money which comes from the present main-stream of economics. If you are interested in how I reached my conclusions I suggest you look at this post. It explains the basics of how money works (as I see it) including why money is used to begin with.
http://bilbo.economicoutlook.net/blog/?p=332
As I see it this theory is significantly superior in the scientific sense to the main-stream theory, and certainly testable.
sorry about the delay – been a bit busy to switch into the headspace.
Ok, so government deficits are apparently less important now because of the floating exchange rate. But that only removes the speculative crash with each manual devaluation – the currency still devalues if it is oversupplied, and this then requires inflationary effects because we’re in a global economy. So arguing that the money supply is “limitless” ignores the practical limits on the utility of the currency.
Secondly, if maintaining a balanced budget (e.g. to address the balance of payments) decreased in importance after floating the dollar, that only happened under Roger Douglas. So an alternative perspective is that rather than being “neoliberal”, the Labour (and, I’d suggest, the conventional NZ layperson’s view as to government fiscal competence being analogous to their household finances correct or not) might merely be “out of date”.
“But that only removes the speculative crash with each manual devaluation – the currency still devalues if it is oversupplied, and this then requires inflationary effects because we’re in a global economy. So arguing that the money supply is “limitless” ignores the practical limits on the utility of the currency.”
Yes, its possible for the exchange rate to fall, because of a plenty-full supply of currency. However there are many many much more significant effects on the foreign exchange markets than the deficit, and it tends to be largely self correcting anyway.
One important point about deficit spending and its effects on inflation is all spending creates exactly equivalent inflationary pressures. So when somebody borrows money to make a house purchase, this creates as much inflationary pressure as the equivalent amount of deficit spending.
No, pointing out its limitless, its just about making cogent arguments. The government has an unlimited budget so in order to justify restricting spending it needs to show the negative impacts of that spending. I didn’t claim at any stage that government spending has no effects on the exchange rate or inflation, but we need to look at the actual effects, not some fictitious belief that the budget should be balanced. If you look at some of the justifications for balanced budgets, e.g Ricardian Equivalence, NAIRU, Crowding Out, they are utterly ridiculous. Its only by hiding behind false household budget analogies that these ideas survive public scrutiny.
“So an alternative perspective is that rather than being “neoliberal”, the Labour (and, I’d suggest, the conventional NZ layperson’s view as to government fiscal competence being analogous to their household finances correct or not) might merely be “out of date””
It’s certainly wrong to believe that, but oddly it was better before this restraint was removed. This is part of why its important to explain the plain facts.
@ McFlock
Wasn’t the KiwiRail buy back merely bailing out Toll? Thus, corporate welfare.
Anderton’s persistence led to Kiwibank.
Labour went on to introduce Public Private Partnerships. Suggesting they planned to continue privatizations.
Okay, now what would the fourth Labour government have done?
My guess is that they would have let the rail lines be sold for scrap and ignored Anderton.
Fair point on PPPs, but my argument has never been that Labour is very left wing. Just that it isn’t a bunch of far right zealots.
A well made argument Nic. Thank you.
Mockery of CV is an argument. An object of valid ridicule says what? Just like Penny Bright or Donald Trump: waiting for someone credible to say it.
Labour is to the right of the political spectrum.
It was moved there by Douglas and Prebble and has never returned to its roots.
Probably true. CV saying it makes matters worse. Sad and true.
look, whether Labour is to the left of the right, or the right of the left, of the political spectrum is a reasonable argument if you can be bothered with it. The spectrum is broad and any party would have a package of policies that are like Fraunhofer lines, with collections of elements that might be conservative or liberal, left or right.
But CV said “far right”: the dwelling-ground of fascists, randian superheroes, and religious ultra-conservatives. Yeah, nah.
Quick question, which party has taken up the Labour election policy of raising the super age? Where do you rank them on the political spectrum in NZ?
and yet Lab5 still chose to implement Alliance and Green policies rather than forming a coalition with nact, such as renationalising kiwirail. Like I said, “any party would have a package of policies that are like Fraunhofer lines, with collections of elements that might be conservative or liberal, left or right”.
One policy makes neither a neolib nor a comm1e
No, but it easy fit into ACT it clearly shows that the policy is pretty neo-liberal. It depends how many of these it has, as I see it too many of the headline policies.
In particular, if your party has a belief it has financial constraints dictated by the market, don’t complain when it implements pro-cyclical policies including retrenchment in response to economic downturns.
Yeah, nah, they might not be MJSavage, but they ain’t Forbes&Coates either.
Labour is to the right of the political spectrum.
If so, the centre and left of the political spectrum are good for maybe 10 per cent of the vote. In which case, either NZ is a utopia for the far right, or your concept of the political spectrum is completely fucked. I wonder which it is?
Exactly PM. NZ is generally left-ish, most Kiwiblog readers are spewing that Key has (at least pretended to) steal loads of Labour policies (CGT, public transport, cycleways, paying teachers and nurses, not being fascist) and plastered the Gnats all over the middle of the voting spectrum
The background of Nash is an example of something I have noticed about Labour and National. The children of politicians and connected functionaries find it a fertile area to advance themselves, using their parent’s connections and understandings. But they may not have their parent’s sense of allegiance to the core beliefs of the Party and its sense of some responsibility to the country and the people. Labour for instance has this Nash chap, descendant of a former Labour follower. Roger Douglas, another of these. I’m sure there are more.
Thinking about it brought a part of a recently read novel to mind. It is by Ruth Rendell (Talking to Strange Men) and she explores the genesis of an amoral gang of youths and how a culture of immoral behaviour can develop. They are mostly male teenagers, the group is secret and select and has formed rules and methods that all use and comply with and loyalty is required.
Rendell has the contender who has been handed the leadership thinking:
“They would see some changes now. Mungo-style scruples… (of the previous leader)
would have no place in the new regime. When you considered what could be accomplished with scruples, all that planning, information…how much more was possible when scruples were discarded?
That code nonsense should go. It had always been artificial….The ban on what Mungo rather naively called ‘dishonesty’ – that must be the first to go. A kind of Mafia, Charles (new leader) decided he had in mind, but run by the cream of a rising generation, the country’s best brains, a youthful public school elite, headed by one who had already killed his man…(Charles had killed by pushing a man to fall down stairs but was safe from discovery as no-one had knowledge of it.)”
Stuart Nash is adopted – born a few months before Sir Walter Nash died – so he’s not a descendant by blood!
And just what is that supposed to mean?
That is just about as silly as the British royalty rules that you have to have “Royal Blood”, whatever that is supposed to mean. Is it really blue, perhaps?
I suppose you hate Bill Clinton because he was in fact adopted by a man named Clinton?
Take your anti-hysteria pills alwyn.
HS was stating a fact. Nothing more… nothing less.
A fact followed by an exclamation mark, so therefore some implied significance to that fact.
Some folks get read a lot into the weirdest personal details, it seems.
Just a fact that not many people may know – I don’t hate anyone. Stuart Nash has been involved with adoption issues in the past in his parliamentary career, that’s all. Greywarshark had talked about Stuart Nash’s past, which was why I mentioned it. He talked about finding his birth mother in an article a good while back.
It’s strange that “facts” are no longer allowed to be talked about. Maybe alwyn is taking the lead from the NZ Herald – they never let facts get in the way of a good “story” these days!
I think that nurture is stronger than nature myself. The bringing up and attitudes embedded early make the difference I think.
I agree that nurture can sometimes seem stronger than nature – although some of the studies done on identical twins separated at birth and adopted by different families, who don’t even meet each other till they are grown yet share so many traits etc, makes me think that genetics are more powerful than we realise. The more we know, the more we realise how much we don’t know I guess!
Here is the article about Stuart Nash’s adoption for those interested.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10010520
September 21, 2015
Putin to Netanyahu: Russia’s Actions in Mideast Will Always Be Responsible
TPS / Tazpit News Agency
“…Putin also doubted Netanyahu’s suggestion that the Syrian government would open up a terrorist front against Israel.
“In regard to Syria, we know that the Syrian army is in a situation such that it is incapable of opening a new front,” argued Putin.
Although diplomatic relations between Israel and Russia have grown and advanced since the fall of the Soviet Union, significant differences remain between both countries on various Middle East issues.
Russia maintains strong connections with Iran and Syria, both of which are enemy regimes of Israel.
In contrast with Israel, Russia also views Syria’s President Basher al-Assad as a necessity for maintaining stability and order in Syria.
Despite existing disagreements, both leaders assured the other of maintaining good relations.
“In all of the relations between us, whether I agreed and also when we differed, our discourse has always been conducted with mutual respect and openness,” Netanyahu told Putin.
While Putin made it clear that Russia’s “main goal is to defend the Syrian state,” he also expressed a cordial greeting to Netanyahu.
“I understand your concern and I am very pleased that you have come here to discuss all issues in detail,” Putin said to Netanyahu. …”
Interesting …..
Is Russia going to buy Israeli goods to help replace those that they may longer buy from Turkey?
So Russia does not support the BDS campaign?
Penny Bright
Mayoral candidate cowers from climate change scrutiny.
The mayor of Auckland has fuck-all foreign policy responsibilities.
Penny won’t even own up to her responsibility to pay rates
Would Putin be so cordial should Netanyahu ever decide to bomb Iran – a nation which I think he genuinely hates?
Robert Glennie
Political policy must be fleet of foot in this era of hypocricy, loud statements, quiet counter-plots, avowed intentions and obvious contradictory actions. One must no doubt, tread softly, usually, with a pocketed velvet covered knuckleduster. Also be prepared to be flexible in order to survive. What cordial would you serve at the high-level meetings?
Putin would work through the situation diplomatically. Put it this way: Israel hates Hezbollah and Iran with a vengeance – but Russia has helped convinced Israel not to strike at Hezbollah and Iranian fighters taking on ISIS in the north of Syria.
That’s Russian diplomacy at work.
In any event, Putin will do what ever is good for Russia.
Interesting set of interviews and discussions on Q+A this morning. JK got grilled reasonably thoroughly about a Colmar Brunton poll about things most NZers are concerned about (pay rates, job security etc) and when Michelle Boag tried to skew the following discussion by saying that people were only allowed to rank pre-selected issues, jose Pagani managed to make the point that the poll process included a pre-poll which identified the issues that the later poll saw ranked.
I can’t say that I was as impressed later in the show when she seemed to (STILL) by backing Shane Jones to head the Labour Party, though. After an interview with Jones about Pacific issues (no mention of climate change), panellists were asked where they saw him in 5 years. Pagani answered “”Leader of a social democratic party – possibly the Labour Party”. Get over it, Jose!
Shane seems to confuse industry and jobs with pimping us out to big business.
I would have him as a good bet to pop up in NZ First though.
That is pretty much what both National and Labour have been doing for the last thirty years.
I don’t think many women would be too thrilled with Shane Jones as Labour’s Leader! He is sleazy and slippery and sly imho!
Pagani does not represent left wing thinking.
She is given a pulpit because she is what the establishment wants the Labour Party to be.
The term fifth columnist comes to mind.
Debt and Security – A social liberal response to the spending review
TL;DR
Government going in to surplus weakens and eventually destroys the economy.
Here’s hoping there’s confirmation on the way.
A Swiss newspaper is reporting that imprisoned Saudi blogger Raif Badawi could have his sentence of 1,000 lashes suspended, but Amnesty International has yet to confirm the news.
The Swiss Secretary of Foreign Affairs Yves Rossier told the Fribourg daily newspaper La Liberté that Badawi’s sentence was suspended.
“A royal pardon is in the works thanks to the head of state, King Salman bin Abdulaziz Al Saud,” he said.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/raif-badawi-sentence-suspended-swiss-official-1.3341687
Saudi Arabia had 50 decapitations lined up to go in the last week or so.
There’s certainly something evident from the following article – it’s either the blatant racism we saw in New Zealand where there are no housing problems (and those are the official government view), or its something we haven’t seen here for some time – plain old fashioned honesty in reporting!
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/29/business/international/chinese-cash-floods-us-real-estate-market.html
Come to think of it, our government promised that we would get some better reporting on sales to overseas investors – I wonder how that is going?
This mass gunman is not labelled a terrorist.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=11552913
“Loo explained in a posting on the Labour-aligned political blog, The Standard”
Chris Trotter failing to comprehend the difference between the labour movement and Labour. He is not the first of course. But it isnt a difficult concept
Is the labour movement aligned with Labour? Yes, or no?
How Walmart Keeps an Eye on Its Massive Workforce
As I’ve said before, the real problem of mass surveillance isn’t the government but the corporations. They will watch everything that you do and take action against you and you won’t even know.
“As I’ve said before, the real problem of mass surveillance isn’t the government but the corporations”
Even if you are correct – which I have my doubts about – the ongoing melding of governmental and corporate power will make the point moot.
Tory terrorism and personal responsibility. Right wing lies don’t just kill New Zealand children.
TED Talk: The global food waste scandal
We were told by john key on q&a to support the success on our economy that we have experienced pay increases of 3% on average, this being well above the inflation rate. Then how come we see such articles as :
http://www.stuff.co.nz/waikato-times/opinion/68640796/NZ-teachers-deserve-a-decent-pay-rise
http://www.stuff.co.nz/environment/73766181/ross-henderson-department-of-conservation-workers-taking-a-stance
The response from DOC management would be laughable, were it not such a serious issue. They initially offered just a 0.4 per cent increase in pay.
Perhaps we will see our govt ministers accepting without any opposition of pay increases for 3% to the public sector 🤑🤑
“We were told by john key on q&a to support the success of our economy that we have experienced pay increases of 3% on average”
Note the last 2 words. The average goes up a lot when a small group of CEOs get massive rises, but it means nothing for the minimum-wage people who clean their offices. This govt have form for lying about stats.
SMH has a fascinating piece on the demise of the Abbott administration.
Shirtfronted: Loyalty, power and the plan to replace a Prime Minister
Can’t wait for the NZ version to take place…
Yet another Key success story bites the dust. http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/74534581/2000-broken-hopes-at-failed-wellington-call-centre
And it is possible that the staff once again will miss out on wages etc. Isn’t amazing how many firms seem to close just before Christmas