Open mike 30/05/2022

105 comments on “Open mike 30/05/2022 ”

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1. Jester 1

   30 May 2022 at 6:54 am

   Doesn't sound like the TVNZ HR department did very good background checking on this bloke. Be interesting to see who they replace John Campbell with now.

   Kamahl Santamaria quits TVNZ: Breakfast show hosts address 'the changes' after host's abrupt departure – NZ Herald
   • Cricklewood 1.1

     30 May 2022 at 9:39 am

     Yesterday the article on Stuff contained a snippet that he'd faced similar accusations working at Al Jazeera. Was very quickly removed.
2. aj 2

   30 May 2022 at 8:04 am

   About sums it up.

   We’ve also learned that the reasonable majority can be frightened and silenced if caught between extremes, while many others can be captured by mass delusions.”

   https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/article-the-american-polity-is-cracked-and-might-collapse-canada-must-prepare/
3. Adrian Thornton 3

   30 May 2022 at 8:53 am

   U.S. the most war like country on Earth…..

   USA; 750 military bases around the World

   China; 3 military bases around the World

   Russia; 8 military bases around the World

   Military budget of the United States 801 Billion (population 329.5 million )

   Military budget of China 261 Billion (population 1.402 billion)

   Military budget of Russia 66 Billion (population 144.1 million )

   And we all know the truly impressive and extremely long list of countries in which the US has conducted hostile incursions into another country's territories….and lets not even start with the USA's role in meddling in other countries elections….that list would be just ridiculous……., and yet people on this very site will scream at the top of their lungs…FEAR RUSSIA….FEAR CHINA…..

   Like most of their rhetoric…logic, common sense (and historical evidence) has to be completely ignored in order to join their new Cold War Club…..unfortunately it seems like they are getting plenty of takers now that Putin has wrongly and stupidly given them the gift of the Ukraine….millions of deaths, untold misery and destruction caused and still being caused by ultra aggressive US/Western militarism…forgotten quite literally in the blink of an eye…..
   • RedLogix 3.1

     30 May 2022 at 9:53 am

     Putin launched this war precisely because he thought the US was weak and not going to intervene.

     At the beginning of this year most people thought it unlikely Urkaine would be invaded – yet here we are. And now Russia is rightly feared and loathed for its vile invasion.

     China continues to threaten to invade Taiwan, and are openly pre-positioning themselves to do so. Only a complete fool would could now claim this is unlikely. Indeed you only have to look at their insanely provocative actions in the South Pacific to understand precisely what their intentions are. As a result China is also rightly feared and loathed for continuing down this same medieval, war-mongering path as Russia.

     Adrian's undeniable cheerleading for these totalitarian regimes and the neo-colonial invasions they promote renders anything he says about US history to meaningless partisan blather. More to the point – if he lived in Russia or China and was saying comparable things against those regimes, he would very likely be shut down and pay a high cost for it. That he feels free to abuse the relative freedom of speech that he enjoys here in the West to undermine and betray the open society he has the remarkable privilege to live in underscores a profound ignorance and moral bankruptcy.
     • Ad 3.1.1

       30 May 2022 at 9:54 am

       I watched a wee animation of Japan's Pacific expansion from 1931 and I was pretty chilled by the recognition of China's moves this decade.
       • joe90 3.1.1.1

         30 May 2022 at 10:46 am

         Bad news for the fish, too.

         https://twitter.com/CleoPaskal/status/1529297600876273667
         • Bearded Git 3.1.1.1.1

           30 May 2022 at 3:10 pm

           What is chilling about that map is the 8 USA areas, doubtless all equipped for military use.
           • Ad 3.1.1.1.1.1

             30 May 2022 at 3:19 pm

             Worked well last time.
     • weston 3.1.2

       30 May 2022 at 12:23 pm

       " Putin launched this war " etc etc

       Alternatively Putin launched his SMO because he recognized America's power play in the ukraine and doing nothing about it was'nt an option .

       Agree most observers in the west thought he was'nt going to invade but now that has occurred a great many counties arround the world have some sympathies for the Russian perspective and its predicament ie America's openly stated intention to 'weaken ' Russia . Those countries include China obviously plus India and probably Pakistan South Africa Iran Venezuela Mexico and numerous others .

       I had a humorous thought that probably all Reds mum would have had to do when he was an infant was whistle Dixie to get him to suckle vigorously !
       • The Al1en 3.1.2.1

         30 May 2022 at 12:47 pm

         Russia even invented a phrase for it.

         In political jargon, a useful idiot is a derogatory term for a person perceived as propagandizing for a cause without fully comprehending the cause's goals, and who is cynically used by the cause's leaders.[1][2] The term was originally used during the Cold War to describe non-communists regarded as susceptible to communist propaganda and manipulation.
         • weston 3.1.2.1.1

           30 May 2022 at 12:56 pm

           So when both sides can accuse the other of exactly the same 'useful idiot ' term is anything achieved Alien ?
           • The Al1en 3.1.2.1.1.1

             30 May 2022 at 12:59 pm

             Like being lectured by an anti vaxxer on healthcare or global warming by a cc denier lol
             • weston …

               30 May 2022 at 1:16 pm

               Fine example of false equivalence with a dash of desperation ! lol
               • The Al1en …

                 30 May 2022 at 1:21 pm

                 Fit "fake news" and "alternative facts" in your next reply and collect your 25 bonus putin points.
           • Incognito 3.1.2.1.1.2

             30 May 2022 at 1:44 pm

             Throwing propaganda and unhelpful labels at each other leads to more widespread confusion and division, not just between sides, but also within sides and this is often one of the objectives of propaganda – it becomes self-reinforcing.

             A useful idiot becomes less useful for propagandists once he/she start to realise that they are and have been manipulated. When this leads to better understanding of the situation and possibly even an internal dialogue within and between sides there’s an increased chance that a non-binary non-partisan solution might be found and also sooner rather than later. The fact is that some people actually benefit from wars and it is these people who often have a hand (literally) in spreading propaganda aka the vested interests.
   • The Al1en 3.2

     30 May 2022 at 10:14 am

     people on this very site will scream at the top of their lungs…FEAR RUSSIA….FEAR CHINA…..

     But not you, and the handful like you, who only seem to have the mental capacity to fear the united states.
     • weston 3.2.1

       30 May 2022 at 1:20 pm

       The USA are easily the biggest war mongers on the planet by a very comfortable margin any body disputing this fact cant even do simple math .
       • The Al1en 3.2.1.1

         30 May 2022 at 1:27 pm

         And because of that, you can't make space inside your head to condemn russia and china? Bless.
         • roy cartland 3.2.1.1.1

           30 May 2022 at 2:33 pm

           I notice you've left out Turkmenistan in your condemnations. What's your point?
           • The Al1en 3.2.1.1.1.1

             30 May 2022 at 3:04 pm

             The point lol

             If russia and china get free passes because your room is too full of hate for the usa, then it's myopic, one sided and most likely just politically motivated chatter.

             I don't take anyone seriously, showing such small minded, blinkered thinking. Blame and consequences should land at all deserving doors.

             But do go for it – I'm clearly not the intended audience.
   • Jenny how to get there 3.3

     30 May 2022 at 11:23 am

     The cause of the war in Ukraine and many other wars and invasions, usually have nothing at all to do with the ridiculous stated reasons, like the murder of an Arch Duke, or neo-nazis in Ukraine.

     Hi Adrian, you have provided us an accurate list exposing the reach and spread of the US military empire. Taken together, the US empire's record of invasions and wars around the globe is truly horrific.

     But this list of US crime and global power does not account for the current situation. And the very real threat posed by Russian imperialism.

     The comparative size and success of imperialist powers is not their only measure.

     Let's take an analogy:

     Before the Second and First World Wars, the British Empire, not the US empire was the global hegemonic super power. The crimes of the British Empire are well documented, during its reign as the world hegemon the British Empire killed an estimated 40 million people.

     "The law of murder is the law of growth." 19th Century British Imperialist, Winwood Reade

     …..At its height it was the largest empire in history and, for over a century, was the foremost global power.[1] By 1913 the British Empire held sway over 412 million people, 23 per cent of the world population at the time,[2] and by 1920 it covered 35,500,000 km2 (13,700,000 sq mi),[3] 24 per cent of the Earth's total land area.

     Though the German imperialists certainly matched the British imperialists in their level of atrocity and genocide. Compared to the British Empire, the German and Nazi empires never reached anywhere near the size and reach of the British Empire.
     As the eponymous character in the anti-war satire 'Black Adder' put it, compared to the British Empire all the German Empire had was a small sausage factory in Tanganyika.

     Obviously an exaggeration for theatrical effect, but not that far from the truth.
     • UncookedSelachimorpha 3.3.1

       30 May 2022 at 3:14 pm

       The cause of war?

       My conclusion is that 99% of war is simply about taking somebody else's stuff.
     • mikesh 3.3.2

       31 May 2022 at 6:16 am

       But this list of US crime and global power does not account for the current situation. And the very real threat posed by Russian imperialism.

       "Russian imperialism" is a figment of your imagination. Though there may have been a few imperialist efforts during Tsarist days, mostly aimed at gaining Istanbul.
       • Jenny how to get there 3.3.2.1

         31 May 2022 at 7:21 am

         mikesh

         31 May 2022 at 6:16 am

         ….."Russian imperialism" is a figment of your imagination.

         Try telling the people of Ukraine under Russian bombing, that Russian imperialism is a figment of their imagination.

         Try telling the people of Syria under Russian bombing, that Russian imperialism is a figment of their imagination.

         How Russian denial of civilian casualties follows tactics used in Syria

         Mikesh, tell me, is Chinese imperialism also a figment of my imagination?
         • mikesh 3.3.2.1.1

           31 May 2022 at 1:08 pm

           Try telling the people of Syria under Russian bombing, that Russian imperialism is a figment of their imagination.

           I'm not sure what the Ukranians think, and to be honest I don't think it matters. Speculations about what they might be thinking just some of the rubbish you serve up when you can't come up with a cogent argument.

           Mikesh, tell me, is Chinese imperialism also a figment of my imagination?

           I really have no idea, but if they are then they are doing through diplomatic channels. I don't see any reason to get upset about that.

           However, I think your imagination seems a little erratic.

           PS: By the way, have you read Harari's Sapiens. Harari thinks that the historical role of empires is to bring nations together, and forge a common way of life.
           • Stuart Munro 3.3.2.1.1.1

             31 May 2022 at 1:31 pm

             but if they are then they are doing through diplomatic channels

             The Uighurs might not agree: Xinjiang leak reveals extent of Chinese abuses in Uighur camps | News | Al Jazeera
             • mikesh …

               31 May 2022 at 2:17 pm

               I think Jenny is referring to China's incursions into the Pacific.
               • Stuart Munro …

                 31 May 2022 at 2:52 pm

                 I expect that she is as concerned by oppression within Chinese borders as she is with oppression outside them.
                 • Brigid …

                   31 May 2022 at 3:23 pm

                   That would be noble of her if such oppression did exist.
                   • Stuart Munro …

                     31 May 2022 at 5:02 pm

                     The BBC just published the documents that show it exists.
                   • RedLogix …

                     31 May 2022 at 7:36 pm

                     All fake news of course:

                     It is impossible to verify Ziawudun's account completely because of the severe restrictions China places on reporters in the country, but travel documents and immigration records she provided to the BBC corroborate the timeline of her story. Her descriptions of the camp in Xinyuan county – known in Uighur as Kunes county – match satellite imagery analysed by the BBC, and her descriptions of daily life inside the camp, as well as the nature and methods of the abuse, correspond with other accounts from former detainees.

                     Internal documents from the Kunes county justice system from 2017 and 2018, provided to the BBC by Adrian Zenz, a leading expert on China's policies in Xinjiang, detail planning and spending for "transformation through education" of "key groups" – a common euphemism in China for the indoctrination of the Uighurs. In one Kunes document, the "education" process is described as "washing brains, cleansing hearts, strengthening righteousness and eliminating evil".

                     The BBC also interviewed a Kazakh woman from Xinjiang who was detained for 18 months in the camp system, who said she was forced to strip Uighur women naked and handcuff them, before leaving them alone with Chinese men. Afterwards, she cleaned the rooms, she said.

                     "My job was to remove their clothes above the waist and handcuff them so they cannot move," said Gulzira Auelkhan, crossing her wrists behind her head to demonstrate. "Then I would leave the women in the room and a man would enter – some Chinese man from outside or policeman. I sat silently next to the door, and when the man left the room I took the woman for a shower."

                     The Chinese men "would pay money to have their pick of the prettiest young inmates", she said.

                     Some former detainees of the camps have described being forced to assist guards or face punishment. Auelkhan said she was powerless to resist or intervene.

                     Asked if there was a system of organised rape, she said: "Yes, rape."

                     "They forced me to go into that room," she said. "They forced me to take off those women's clothes and to restrain their hands and leave the room."

                     Nothing to see here.
                   • Brigid …

                     31 May 2022 at 9:05 pm

                     'The BBC just published documents that show it exists.'

                     FIFY Stuart
                   • Jenny how to get there …

                     31 May 2022 at 9:16 pm

                     Brigid LOL at state sponsored genocide.

                     Jenny how to get there

                     22 September 2021 at 5:40 pm

                     …. industrial scale extermination camps

                     
                     
                     

                     Brigid

                     22 September 2021 at 10:22 pm

                     " industrial scale extermination camps"

                     Lol

                     Brigid makes a typo.

                     Brigid

                     22 April 2022 at 7:36 pm

                     ….I appal violence in all its forms, including state sanctioned murder.

                     I think the word you were looking for Brigid, was applaud, not appal.

                     Here, let me fix it for you.

                     "….I appal [applaud] violence in all its forms, including [especially] state sanctioned murder." Brigid

                     LOL This, you fascist bitch.

                     https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/apr/27/massacre-in-tadamon-how-two-academics-hunted-down-a-syrian-war-criminal.

                     [A blatant lie: “Brigid LOL at state sponsored genocide.” Brigid did not say or imply such a thing in her comment.

                     Dredging up old comment threads without providing relevant context – old grievances.

                     Twisting somebody else’s words aka putting words in their mouth.

                     FYI, appal is a verb.

                     Not making a single political point for discussion.

                     Personal insult and attack – old grievances.

                     Take a week off – Incognito]
                   • Incognito []

                     31 May 2022 at 10:33 pm

                     Mod note
                   • Stuart Munro …

                     1 June 2022 at 5:49 pm

                     It is indicative of your sincerity as a commenter, that you dismiss a substantial body of evidence without even a cursory look.

                     For shame Brigid.

                     May the day never come when you are oppressed, and internationals who might have mustered to your defense simply cannot be bothered.
                 • mikesh …

                   31 May 2022 at 7:24 pm

                   Who Knows. Still, nice deflection on your part, albeit a bit sneaky.
               • Jenny how to get there …

                 31 May 2022 at 7:17 pm

                 What I think:

                 A budding imperial power that wants to play the "Great Game" on the world stage, first starts by colonising its hinterland and/or smaller nearest neighbours.. After it has enslaved and murdered and robbed these peoples, only then does it feel confident enough to challenge its rival imperialists on the world stage.

                 It's the same process followed by the British Empire began in Ireland, And the US empire with its genocidal Manifest Destiny policy against its First People Nations.

                 It's the pattern followed by Chinese regime against Tibet and against the Uyghur Autonomous Region.

                 The latest news is that the diplomatic efforts of the Chinese imperialists into the Pacific have been checked.
           • Jenny how to get there 3.3.2.1.1.2

             31 May 2022 at 3:52 pm

             "I'm not sure what the Ukranians think, and to be honest I don't think it matters….." mikesh 31 May 2022 at 1:08 pm

             Of course you don't think it matters what the Ukrainians think, No surprises there. Whenever has anyone, who supports imperialist war and invasions ever thought it matters what the people of the country being invaded and taken over think?

             "…the historical role of empires is to bring nations together, and forge a common way of life." mikesh 31 May 2022 at 1:08 pm

             That's what every supporter of imperialism, that ever was, has said.

             Ghengis Khan, Cecil Rhodes, King Leopold, Adolf Hitler, Joseph Stalin, Hirohito and Vladimir Putin would all agree with you on that one.
             • mikesh …

               31 May 2022 at 7:43 pm

               Of course you don't think it matters what the Ukrainians think, No surprises there. Whenever has anyone, who supports imperialist war and invasions ever thought it matters what the people of the country being invaded and taken over think?

               I would think the Ukrainians would be too worried about bombs dropping on their heads to be interested in whether or not Russia has "imperialist intentions".

               Ghengis Khan, Cecil Rhodes, King Leopold, Adolf Hitler, Joseph Stalin, Hirohito and Vladimir Putin would all agree with you on that one

               Empires are a fact of life, or a fact of history. Whether anybody supports them, or nobody supports them, is rather pointless to speculate on..

               By the way, you forgot about Cyrus the Great, and also Augustus Caesar.
       • joe90 3.3.2.2

         31 May 2022 at 7:27 am

         "Russian imperialism" is a figment of your imagination

         From Finland and the Baltic states to Moldova, from Eastern Europe, the Caucasus and Central Asia to Siberia, Manchuria and Alaska.

         Just a few imperialist efforts.

         /

         
         • mikesh 3.3.2.2.1

           31 May 2022 at 1:12 pm

           So… ? No-one doubts that Russia is already an empire.
           • Stuart Munro 3.3.2.2.1.1

             31 May 2022 at 10:56 pm

             Listen to the truth about Putin, Wormtongue.

             She was killed for it of course.
             • RedLogix …

               31 May 2022 at 11:17 pm

               What gets me is that the left spent a decade tearing itself apart over how Assange was a rapist because he didn't use a condom on his morning wood – but when orders Putin the murder of a country somehow he's just a poor misunderstood vlad.
   • UncookedSelachimorpha 3.4

     30 May 2022 at 12:04 pm

     No one is saying US military behaviour is marvellous.

     But this "whataboutism" does nothing to excuse the mass murder / rape / destruction Russia is inflicting in the independent democracy of Ukraine.

     Nor does it excuse mass persecution of Uyghurs by China.
     • mikesh 3.4.1

       31 May 2022 at 2:30 pm

       No-one is denying that what is going on in Ukraine is abhorent. Differences that countries have with one another should sorted out by negotiation, and perhaps with arbitration if a settlement cannot be reached. However, if one party (in this case, Zelenskyy) won't come to the the negotiating table, and if that party won't abide by previously arrived at agreements (like the Minsk agreements), then it's difficult to see what options the other party has, other than to declare war.
       • Stuart Munro 3.4.1.1

         31 May 2022 at 5:08 pm

         You twist yourself into pretzels trying to exculpate the murderous Putin regime.

         Russia agreed in 1994 to respect Ukraine's sovereignty and national borders in return for Kyiv agreeing to give up its nuclear arsenal. ~ The Budapest Memorandum.

         Russia's alternative was to abide by its agreements – now the Putin regime will be crushed – and a good thing too.
         • mikesh 3.4.1.1.1

           31 May 2022 at 7:58 pm

           Ukraine also signed up to the Minsk Agreements. But that didn't seem to stop Zelenskyy's minions bombing the Donbas region.

           now the Putin regime will be crushed – and a good thing too.

           Yes. It's hard to win when your opponent has the brutal and corrupt US regime on your side, supplying you with weapons.
           • RedLogix 3.4.1.1.1.1

             31 May 2022 at 8:10 pm

             Well given that Putin had already egregiously reneged on the prior Budapest Memorandum – to your obvious satisfaction – why then do you demand Ukraine should abide by any agreement either? Why one rule for Russia and another for Ukraine?

             And while the terms of the Budapest agreement were always crystal clear and uncontroversial – the Minsk agreement was quite the opposite:

             Convoluted and confusing

             “The key political provisions are incompatible, in my opinion, with Ukraine’s existence as a sovereign country,” said Duncan Allan, a fellow at Chatham House who specialises in the Minsk Agreements.

             In his analysis, the Minsk plan for the political reintegration of Donbas was put together hastily and contains contradictory points, which has led to the two sides arguing for interpretations that are advantageous to them.

             Indeed, other analysts suggest that if Kyiv was pressured into implementing Russia’s version of Minsk, there could be a severe backlash from ordinary Ukrainians that could destabilise the country internally.

             Allan believes that the agreements have a “very convoluted and confused sequencing procedure”.

             Under the agreements, Ukraine wants Russia and its proxy forces to withdraw and allow Ukraine to take back control of the border before the proposed local elections under international standards take place. Then, instead of granting the territories the special status that Russia has argued for, Kyiv would give the territories some extra powers but essentially incorporate them into its existing decentralisation programme.

             Ukraine’s interpretation of the agreement envisions alterations to some of the prickliest political elements, but in doing so, it negates what Russia has shown it wants from Minsk – the ability to continue to control the territories and through them have a say in Ukraine’s national affairs on an ongoing basis.

             If Ukraine fulfilled Russia’s interpretation of the agreements, it would give the occupied region special status. In Russia’s eyes, this would include its own police force, described as a ‘people’s militia’; the right to choose judges and prosecutors; support from Kyiv of the region’s transnational cooperation with Russia; amnesty for anyone involved in the fighting on the Russian side; and elections. All of this would happen before the Russian-controlled and Russian forces withdrew.

             In essence Putin’s record of lies and betrayals means that nothing he says is of any worth whatsoever. Agreement cannot be reached with such a person.
             • mikesh …

               31 May 2022 at 9:53 pm

               Whatever. It doesn't excuse the bombing of Donbas. Porochenko (I assume it was him) should rather have been looking at obtaining a negotiated agreement with the Easterners.
               • RedLogix …

                 31 May 2022 at 10:15 pm

                 Whatever …

                 Right there in one lazy sneering word. You don't give a shit about Ukraine so long as you get to bang the 'look how good a leftie I am for hating on the US' drum.
                 • mikesh …

                   1 June 2022 at 5:15 am

                   Was that an argument? Looked more like a sneering ad hominem to me. And I never claimed to be a leftie FWIW.
             • mikesh …

               31 May 2022 at 10:10 pm

               The Budapest Agreement was not Putin's agreement. That would been that drunken sot who preceded him.
               • Stuart Munro …

                 31 May 2022 at 10:20 pm

                 Not bound by it eh?

                 Did he return the nukes? No?

                 Just another dishonorable warmonger then.

                 And you, God help you, are his Wormtongue.
                 • mikesh …

                   1 June 2022 at 5:20 am

                   I assume you would rather he had returned the nukes? Really? And the initial fighting was not about borders; it was Porochenko, and later Zelenskyy, attacking their own countrymen, just because they were ethnically Russian.
                   • Stuart Munro …

                     1 June 2022 at 6:00 am

                     It really doesn't matter how enthusiastically you repeat Putin's lies, Mikesh – Your career as a Tokyo Rose will not end in the plaudits of a grateful dictator.

                     I would rather Putin had stayed within his borders. No, it was not about Poroshenko and Zelensky – Russian forces had been killing Ukrainians relentlessly since 2014 – over 14 000 of them (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Russo-Ukrainian_War) – the missing column in your mathematics of blame.

                     But of course it’s okay to for Russia to kill Ukrainians. They have Mikesh’s blessing.
                   • mikesh …

                     1 June 2022 at 11:01 pm

                     Has Putin been telling whoppers. I wouldn't know. I don't think I have heard he has said recently.
           • Stuart Munro 3.4.1.1.1.2

             31 May 2022 at 9:52 pm

             It's a good thing that it's hard for Russia to win, since hard though that may be for you to believe, having soaked up Putin's disinformation like the rest of the poriferae, you do not face the consequence of being forced into a battle with no training, Soviet era equipment, and scant concern for your survival.

             Here we can see a recent draft of Donetsk citizens mustering for battle – they entrusted little matters like self-determination to pseudo parental figures like Putin, not unlike certain childish notionally Left persons somewhat closer to home.
             • mikesh …

               31 May 2022 at 10:02 pm

               To paraphrase John Donne: No country is an island, Entire unto itself …

               "Self determination" is all very well, but it doesn't give a country license to do whatever it likes. Ukraine has a rather powerful neighbour who may well have had grave concerns about the way it had been carrying on.

               By the way I’m not acquainted with anything Putin has said, irrespective of whether it is information or disinformation.
               • Stuart Munro …

                 31 May 2022 at 10:17 pm

                 By the way I’m not acquainted with anything Putin has said

                 Of course you are – you just got it second or third hand.
                 • mikesh …

                   1 June 2022 at 5:25 am

                   You have a visceral hatred for Putin. I get that. I couldn't care less about Putin. All my comments are concerned with the goings on in Ukraine.

                   Though I think I said I said somewhere that I thought Putin a better ruler than the drunken sot who preceded him.
                   • Stuart Munro …

                     1 June 2022 at 5:56 am

                     Of course anyone with any enlightenment values necessarily reviles genocidal warmongering dictators. We notice your lack of such values.

                     I couldn't care less about Putin.

                     And yet you repeat his propaganda as enthusiastically as the Hitler Youth repeated his. This is not an appropriate forum for that – you should do that on 8chan.

                     It's one of life's little curiosities that Yeltsin was considered by Russians to be a sophisticate. He had the Moscow accent – whereas Gorbachev only had a record of successful and popular economic reforms in Primorye.

                     Turns out your better than Yeltsin president is a danger to many peaceable people in Europe, whereas Yeltsin, besides wrecking Gorbachev's reform and dooming his country to penury, was most dangerous to his own liver.
                   • mikesh …

                     1 June 2022 at 11:12 pm

                     Well I'm sure Comrade Putin doesn't like you very much either. With good reason,
4. Visubversa 4

   30 May 2022 at 9:03 am

   Another example of the effects of this homophobic cult.

   https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/may/29/if-lesbian-prefers-same-sex-dates-thats-not-bigotry-desire-personal-thing?fbclid=IwAR0b7LFokaFo0v1m0Nwue0KgUjDhwY_-23TuxILtj7sHaLzCWY8Zy2WRD4Q
   • Molly 4.1

     30 May 2022 at 11:51 am

     The capture of NGOS,institutions, government departments and 'advisors' is the concern.

     Individuals spouting nonsense can be managed with some effort.

     It it when such perspectives emerge fully formed in political discourse and legislative and policy changes that the scale of the problem is revealed.
5. weka 5

   30 May 2022 at 10:16 am

   Housing crisis solutions, tiny homes, climate mitigation and adaptation are all connected.

   https://twitter.com/wekatweets/status/1531035728871759873
   • ianmac 5.1

     30 May 2022 at 1:19 pm

     Some couples build 4+ bedroom houses with 3+ bathrooms with a footprint of 300+ square metre. "What the…."

     Then I look at the charming functional Madrid house and think "Wow!"
     • mac1 5.1.1

       30 May 2022 at 1:43 pm

       Yes, ianmac. I've cleaned some houses like that and they were sterile glass and concrete monuments to Mammon. No art on the walls save a faux French clock from a garden shop, no book shelves, a 50" TV at the end of a 15 metre glass gallery and no musical instruments.

       Buy/build a small house and get some good art, books, and a piano/guitar. Whatever, but celebrate creative arts and have someone come into the house and be agreeably surprised by functional and creative beauty both.

       They are allowed a BBQ, though…..
       • ianmac 5.1.1.1

         30 May 2022 at 2:42 pm

         So true Mac1. I did ask one chap why did he build such a big house overlooking the golf course. "It was what my wife wanted actually." Some people are too rich but it does seem that some big houses are as you say "sterile". A good but sad word.
       • Brigid 5.1.1.2

         30 May 2022 at 4:19 pm

         And a shed. Where you can teach the kids wood work and how an internal combustion engine works
         • mac1 5.1.1.2.1

           30 May 2022 at 4:57 pm

           And a garden where you can teach the children about how the world and a bee both work.
           • Brigid 5.1.1.2.1.1

             30 May 2022 at 6:19 pm

             Which is why the demise of the quarter acre section is so unfortunate. Which I guess is inevitable with the increase in population, but new subdivisions could be designed so that every kid gets room to play barefoot on real grass and learn about how the world and a bee both work.
         • woodart 5.1.1.2.2

           30 May 2022 at 5:08 pm

           my house is a small two bedroom cottage. its too big. my shed is a large eight car sized. its too small.(i have one car only)
     • Bearded Git 5.1.2

       30 May 2022 at 3:18 pm

       There is a resource consent application for a house in Wanaka measuring 2,458m2 now under consideration by the Council. My own 3br house is 140m2.
     • Visubversa 5.1.3

       30 May 2022 at 4:09 pm

       Only 4br and 3 baths? That is very modest in some quarters. I spent the last years of the last NACT government processing Land Use Consents in Auckland. More like 6br and 5 bathrooms, absolutely maximising the "building envelope" and concreting us as much of the site as the impervious areas rules would permit. I rang one agent who had sent in something with 6br, all with en-suite bathrooms – and an extra bathroom, and said I wanted in writing that they were not building a brothel. I got the statement – but I find it hard to believe that was any sort of family home.
       • mac1 5.1.3.1

         30 May 2022 at 5:02 pm

         I think more areas than concrete are being shown to be impervious here…… to rain, family, sun, gardens, birds, trees, beauty, life itself!
       • Belladonna 5.1.3.2

         30 May 2022 at 5:12 pm

         We have one next door. The owners built an 'extension' which more than doubled the size of the house. Went from 3 bedrooms, 1 bathroom, 1 living area; to 7 bedrooms, 2.5 bathrooms, 3 living areas & an internal double garage.
         Now has 12+ students living there (including living in the garage). With at least 6 cars parked on the road outside.
   • Molly 5.2

     30 May 2022 at 6:51 pm

     If you can, get a copy of Tony Watkins – The Human House.

     A NZ architect, and column writer, the book is a series of articles about the human investment in crafting a house to suit your own personality and interests.

     I found a copy in my library, and re-read it several times.

     https://www.nzgeo.com/stories/celebrating-the-human-house/
     • gsays 5.2.1

       30 May 2022 at 8:17 pm

       Thanks for the link Molly, a great read.
       • Molly 5.2.1.1

         31 May 2022 at 9:58 pm

         I'll admit that despite our tight budget, I ended up buying a copy of the book.

         I'm usually a purchaser of library withdrawals and second hand books, but it was nice to indulge in purchasing new knowing that some of the funds would make their way to Tony Watkins.
6. weka 6

   30 May 2022 at 10:25 am

   Very good thread on some of the problems with replacing sex with gender identity in surveys and data collection used to inform policy and law. How does one name the GI of a baby, young child, or child who cannot speak etc?

   https://twitter.com/threditor/status/1530861976141848580
   • Visubversa 6.1

     30 May 2022 at 10:49 am

     And the Scottish Census people are threatening to prosecute people who "deface" (tell the truth) on an already low response rate Census.
     • weka 6.1.1

       30 May 2022 at 11:59 am

       excellent opportunity for some public civil disobedience there.
7. joe90 7

   30 May 2022 at 11:31 am

   The entitlement is strong.

   /

   Rusny stole a ps4 from a man from Mariupol, and now he writes to the mail and asks for a password from the account.

   https://twitter.com/OstAnatoliy/status/1530817634060607493
   • joe90 7.1

     30 May 2022 at 1:53 pm

     When the toy fits.

     https://twitter.com/expatua/status/1525024848698916865

     https://twitter.com/Sputnik_Not/status/1530521234269667329
8. Incognito 8

   30 May 2022 at 2:01 pm

   From an interview with Jordan Carter, outgoing chief executive of Internet NZ:

   “The Russian state, for quite a long time, has made use of some of the vulnerabilities of this social media environment to intervene in other countries. They seem to say: ‘Well, we can't ever win a head-on confrontation with the liberal democracies, but we can use these systems they've built to undermine their social and political cohesion.’

   "That's a risk people are waking up to,” he said.

   “Ever since publishing was invented you've had people publishing bizarre opinions. The problem isn't when some person chooses to express ‘random view X’ they might or might not agree with. The problem is when their systems amplify it in a way that then creates social divisions that weren't necessarily there.

   "Media systems have fastened on to the most controversial and polarizing views, and then just keep stirring them up in a way that draws people apart from each other,” he said.

   https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/mediawatch/audio/2018843101/two-decades-of-internet-disruption

   Heard it all before but it needs repeating, over and over again.
9. Anker 9

   30 May 2022 at 4:23 pm

   Hot off the press….sitting with an injured relative in Ed. Here since mid day. Corridors full of patients. Staff, calm and kind.

   a plea to the Labour govt, stop spending money on earnest and young consultants and re structures. Increase staff numbers and pay. This is what with improve our health system
   • Belladonna 9.1

     30 May 2022 at 5:13 pm

     Amen! From your lips to Little's ears.
     • Anker 9.1.1

       30 May 2022 at 5:48 pm

       • Still in ED, back in the corridor and more sick people coming in in wheel chairs, stretcher beds etc. staff still patient and kind. Good humoured.
       • weka 9.1.1.1

         30 May 2022 at 6:00 pm

         what are they doing with people with respiratory symptoms?
         • Belladonna 9.1.1.1.1

           30 May 2022 at 8:07 pm

           At Middlemore (3 weeks ago, friend with an injured teen – potential neck/spine injury from an accidental tackle in touch rugby)

           • Only one support person per patient allowed (a bit of a fuss from some families)
           • All patients and support people given RAT tests
           • Everyone had to wear a mask. People who didn't want to were seen elsewhere (removed, not sure where they went – but not in the general waiting room)
           • Anyone with a positive RAT (regardless of other symptoms) was separated out (friend didn't see where they went, as she was in the non-infected group)
           • People lying on floors, in corridors, etc. Simply not enough space for the demand.
           • Time taken to see a doctor with (even with a potentially crippling spinal injury) was 12 hours + radiology time + final interview with the doctor.
           • Because of the delay in getting the scan – there was a lot of swelling, and they weren't able to get a clear picture – there was still a possibility of a break; but they were sent home at 3am (ambulance, so teen could keep lying flat and wearing the neck brace), because there were no beds to admit him for observation.
           • Staff were lovely. Clearly doing their best under immense pressure. As is so common in ED, plenty of people under the influence of drugs/alcohol, off-meds or with some form of psychotic breakdown, stupidly aggressive personally or their support people were; as well as heartbreaking cases of kids who clearly needed emergency care for something which could have been treated earlier (but parents couldn't afford/get access to care)

           Outcome. Teen didn't have a neck/spinal injury (thank heavens), but did have 2 ribs with intercostal dislocations, a whiplash style neck muscle injury, and severe bruising around the whole ribcage.
           • weka 9.1.1.1.1.1

             30 May 2022 at 9:53 pm

             Ouch, that's still not a fun injury.

             The covid protocol is encouraging. Are the excessive waits due to staff shortages?
             • Belladonna …

               31 May 2022 at 7:19 am

               Difficult to tell. Suspect staff shortages (overall), compounded by staff shortages due to staff either isolating themselves with Covid, or as a family contact. All made worse by increased demand on ED: some people using it as a GP – because cost; and health conditions in general just worse after care deferred due to lockdowns.
             • Anker …

               31 May 2022 at 10:04 am

               • Covid protocols in Wellington ED far more relaxed Han you write of Bella.
               • I was screened at the door, but just questioned did I have covid or a household member. I told them I had had some exposure with a couple of contacts socially, but they weren’t interested. No rat tests.
               • everyone wore masks.
               • there were beds both sides of the corridors, so not as much social distancing as ideal.
               • my husband who was injured wasn’t given a RAT test.
               • I know proceedures were a lot tighter in Wellington when omicron was peaking.
               • I can’t speak highly enough of the staff. They were the epitaxy of grace under pressure
10. Ad 10

    30 May 2022 at 4:41 pm

    This is the government going against the supermarkets. Catherine Rich can stick it in her ear.

    Government Acts On Supermarket Duopoly | Scoop News

    · Will introduce:

    o An industry regulator

    o A mandatory code of conduct

    o Compulsory unit pricing on groceries

    o More transparent loyalty schemes

    And rejected the Commerce Commission's 3 year timetable.

    Let's see what The Warehouse can do with that.
    • Belladonna 10.1

      30 May 2022 at 5:17 pm

      Also need to make exclusive supply relationships (by contract) illegal.
      This is where the small, local supplier is locked into a supply deal (often disadvantageously) by one of the big chains; and is contractually prevented from also selling (perhaps at better terms) to the other.

      It puts all of the power in the relationship with the big supermarket chain.

      The little guys are stuck in a take-it-or-leave it deal, and are unable to leverage sales to negotiate a better deal with the competitor.
    • Belladonna 10.2

      30 May 2022 at 5:19 pm

      Just done a mini-shop this afternoon (Mr 14 is getting braces fitted tomorrow, so stocking up on easy to eat supplies). Ouch. Prices have gone up again in the last fortnight.
    • SPC 10.3

      30 May 2022 at 7:12 pm

      From a world report about rising costs

      New Zealand's capital, Wellington, has been ranked one of the least affordable cities in the world for buying a property. The picture is also grim for renters, with a 12% rise in prices in the past year. That, along with increases in petrol and food prices, has led many to consider moving to nearby Australia – where they have the right to live and work.

      Chris, a builder, his partner Harmony and their four daughters recently left Wellington to start a new life in the Australian city of Brisbane. Despite owning their home and earning reasonable salaries, they were still struggling.

      "We have four kids, so it was expensive. We'd notice Australians saying you know the cost of living is going up – but that was the cost five years ago in New Zealand," says Chris.

      Leaving New Zealand and the rest of her family was a difficult decision for Harmony. But she says the move was necessary for the children.

      "You can't make a living in New Zealand. There is no living. You just go backwards. You don't get a choice if you want live, you have to move, or New Zealand has to change. I want a future for my children and there is none in New Zealand," she says.

      The New Zealand government has tried to increase some short-term measures like fuel subsidies and halving the cost of public transport – but for many, it's not enough.

      https://www.bbc.com/news/world-61584608
      • Stuart Munro 10.3.1

        1 June 2022 at 8:20 pm

        It's been that way for a good while. About half the extended family are now in Oz – and all of them are prospering. Here, not so much.
11. Peter 11

    30 May 2022 at 6:13 pm

    When ACT gets in with National they'll be against the Government having anything to do with supermarkets won't they? A 'super' market being one where the Government totally butts out, and it is a 'free' market. Isn't that it?
12. MickeyBoyle 12

    30 May 2022 at 7:35 pm

    No budget bump for Labour in tonight's poll. Maybe if they would start listening to kiwis instead of talking to them, they would still be favourite's for a third term.

    Kiwis don't want Three waters, co-governance or the Maori health authority. People are also crumbling under the weight of the cost of living crisis. What's Labours answer? push through with divisive policy and offer a token amount of money to half the population, which will effectively achieve nothing.

    Next years budget must be a doozy. Reap what you sow!
    • Belladonna 12.1

      30 May 2022 at 7:43 pm

      Results are +\3% so too close to call for either Left or Right.

      But agree, no bump in support for Labour following the budget (which I suspect they would have been hoping for) – and what looks like leaking of their left-wing over to the Greens (which will make some commenters here happy).

      https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/128805700/political-poll-has-labour-national-close-while-mori-party-remains-kingmaker
    • Peter 12.2

      30 May 2022 at 9:13 pm

      Maybe if they started listening to kiwis they wouldn't do anything like Three Waters or address the serious issues with Maori health, just let things carry on as they are.

      Woe betide them if they listen to experts who say there are serious issues to be dealt with and actually try to do something.

      Of course we know they've done nothing with housing. The many new houses I see in Selwyn, Waimakariri, Franklin, Waitakere, Rodney, Whangarei and wherever are all mirages I know.
13. newsense 13

    31 May 2022 at 3:26 am

    The Democracy Project releases another work of independent scholarship timed with an opposition attack on a female, Maori, Labour politician, after previously having work supporting Michael Bassett.

    Unsuprisingly the work basically runs Winston Peters (another specifically non-racist figure in NZ politics) attacks on Nanaia Mahuta. Mahuta has suffered all kinds of racist and sexist bs since assuming her role, including attacks on her moko. Gerry Brownlee gets treated with reverence of a statesman, despite being turfed out of his electorate after he started a few steps down the path of American style Covid politics.

    The piece tries to link a series of hit jobs on 3 Waters with foreign affairs. It’s too much for her.

    It ignores the work Mahuta does and has been doing or discounts it with criticism.

    It lauds the (week old) work of the new foreign minister of Australia, but ignores the government of Australia Mahuta had been working with.

    It ignores the Covid issues the PM is having in get US, as it dismisses Covid concerns for less international travel.

    In the sneaky way it presents as journalism, but by listing as ‘opinion’ it can simply repeat or line up one sided criticism without having to get a response from the minister or the government.

    The underlying message of the piece is that anything we’ve done is bad and anything done elsewhere is good.

    The piece seems to suggest that NZ should be operating separately to its allies and that dropping in on the Solomons would have solved all the tension in the region.

    It is a piece of immense cultural cringe. Look how brilliant that Australian minister is because she took a face to face meeting! Neglect to report that our foreign minister was in Fiji in April. Neglect to report, except in criticism of it, that the derided zoom meeting that actually achieved the clear outcome of extending NZ presence in the Solomons. And that off the back of that she will be visiting Solomons.

    It repeats Peter’s criticism in embedded tweet that the PM is ‘swanning around the world’, a somewhat sexist way of representing her US trip, you know meeting the head of the other main power in the Pacific during a time of crisis, while deriding Mahuta for not traveling. If a Labour woman does it, it’s swanning around I guess.

    It sneaks in little phrases like’To be fair to Mahuta’ after 7 or 8 paragraphs of mostly unfair or poorly contextualised criticism to give the illusion of journalism, while presenting the least charitable possible view of her work.

    Anyway, what a crock. Again.

    Miller from the Democracy Project in Stuff
14. newsense 14

    31 May 2022 at 3:35 am

    To add to that- it ignores the criticism of ScoMo by Fiji’s PM, using the language of the Pacific Family from the recent NZ agreement, as opposed to ScoMo’s neo -colonial phrase of the Pacific being in Australia’s backyard.

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