Open Mike 30/09/2016

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, September 30th, 2016 - 187 comments
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187 comments on “Open Mike 30/09/2016 ”

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  1. Steve 1
    30 September 2016 at 7:08 am

    An interesting article by an MSM journalist (from the UK, but relevant here too I believe).

    https://medium.com/@AbiWilks/speech-momentum-panel-on-media-bias-dd09d9b103b7#.wb1zmrmgn

    I guess we don’t yet have the “upsetting the status quo” of a Corbyn (fingers crossed??) but still some relevant things.

    • ianmac 1.1
      30 September 2016 at 8:42 am

      Mostly a fair comment from Abi but here it is true that a comment from Andrew is likely blown up an out to misrepresent his position. For example his wondering about the immigration list including so any cooks. Or his comment regarding the Middle NZ voter. Both fair comments but mangled by the media. A hard row to hoe.

  2. Nick 2
    30 September 2016 at 8:34 am

    The sad thing is, as soon as ShonKey opens his mouth, he’s lying…. The subject matter is irrelevant….. And his team follow suit, they feel untouchable.

    • ianmac 2.1
      30 September 2016 at 8:47 am

      Trump is enthusiastically fact checked. Key not so much. And anyway Key’s words are so ambiguous that he can always deny that that was what he said. Headlines about the previous poll showing 26% but not a whisper about the Morgan poll of 33.5%.

      • Cinny 2.1.1
        30 September 2016 at 9:21 am

        IKR, not a whisper of the Morgan poll. Maybe the televised political debates during next years election should be fact checked too.. now that would prove very interesting for NZ

      • Jilly Bee 2.2.1
        30 September 2016 at 2:58 pm

        More like the kiss of death I would think.

        • alwyn 2.2.1.1
          30 September 2016 at 8:58 pm

          True.
          I heard a rumour of another overheard conversation, this one involving Obama and Key.
          Barack told him that the US couldn’t support such a weak candidate as Helen Clark was and why didn’t New Zealand put forward an A-list candidate and Key stand himself?
          He thought that Key would easily gain enough support.
          Not sure it is true but it sounds much more likely than the idea that HC can get any further than seventh place,

  3. Gael 3
    30 September 2016 at 8:48 am

    Meantime going by articles on CNBC this morning Duetsche Bank looking/may need bailout (surely that has wide ramifications?).. and US cash 3.4 trillion… debt 34 trillion… and here was i worried about out $1.69bn debt being 70% of our GDP silly me… when do you esteemed standaristas forecast that we will enjoy zero int rates? 🙂

    • Draco T Bastard 3.1
      30 September 2016 at 10:07 am

      When we get serious about money reform and understand two things:

      * That saving money saves nothing
      * That having the private banks creating our money results in us being debt slaves

      • YNWA 3.1.1
        30 September 2016 at 2:46 pm

        +100
        New Zealand should consider the Bradbury Pound approach, remove the banks from the process entirely.

        • Draco T Bastard 3.1.2.1
          30 September 2016 at 8:34 pm

          Bankers, Bradburys, Carnage And Slaughter On The Western Front

          With the exception of a few thousand very powerful people, the entire world’s population, all seven billion of us, are trapped … trapped into a criminal debt creating banking ‘system’ that has taken hundreds of years to perfect and to come to fruition. This ‘system’ results in enslavement and servitude. It creates dreadful unhappiness amongst ordinary decent people and causes wars, debt, starvation, pollution and environmental destruction. It feeds on greed, fear and division. It forces people onto the corporate treadmills of mass mindless production and mass mindless consumption. It uses lies, deception, intimidation and entrapment at all times. It is a system that is so clever and so cunning that most of the world is completely oblivious to its existence. It is a system that allows a few winners at the expense of a huge number of losers. It is a system that considers itself to be unbeatable and indestructible and is now so arrogant that it believes it can control everything and everyone on its terms. It is a system where psychopaths and sociopaths can flourish. And without question the centre of this system, the heart of this global corporate beast is the innocent sounding Square Mile known as the City of London.

          Thanks for the link.

  4. Herodotus 4
    30 September 2016 at 9:14 am

    Warning ….. many outside Auckland will be shocked at this …..
    $720,000 will enable you to buy this in outer Auckland situated on a busy arterial road (But at least a bus stop is directly outside), then you have to build a house that can only have a 45% building coverage or 135m2.
    http://www.realestate.co.nz/2907125
    How much more scope is there for the bubble to inflate before …

    • Cinny 4.1
      30 September 2016 at 9:31 am

      Wow!! I’m still shocked about the neighbours, they sold their house in 10 days and whacked an extra $100,000 on the price since they purchased 16 mths ago in Motueka. Relationship breakup reason for selling.

      I’ve never seen so many real estate agents and prospective buyers, anyone would have thought there was a huge street party happening with the volume of vehicles in our street.

      Huge contrast from when the prior owners sold it last time, huge contrast, property took well over a month to sell last time and there was not much interest in the open homes.

    • Bearded Git 4.2
      30 September 2016 at 9:35 am

      135 m2 is a perfectly good-sized 3-bedroom house, in fact possibly too big. NZ’s need to get out of the habit of thinking that big is better when it comes to houses. We have adopted the same unrealistic and unsustainable attitude as Oz and the US on this.

      • Draco T Bastard 4.2.1
        30 September 2016 at 10:11 am

        +1

        I remember when 90m2 was considered big.

        • Craig H 4.2.1.1
          30 September 2016 at 4:24 pm

          Agreed, but remember that modern house plans usually include a garage when quoting size, so 130-140m2 is the new 90-100m2. Also, a 2 storey house might be an option.

      • Cinny 4.2.2
        30 September 2016 at 10:19 am

        Maybe, however I think in Oz and US they have minimal occupancy in large houses, compared to NZ where there are large families, extended families and grandparents all in one house.

        Also climate dependent, people whom live in areas that have harsh winters or summers are more likely to have a larger house as they spend less time outside than us kiwis.

        • alwyn 4.2.2.1
          30 September 2016 at 11:21 am

          “in Oz …. they have minimal occupancy in large houses”
          That is a significant outcome of the Australian policies of having Capital Gains taxes and means-tested superannuation. Both of these exempt the family home from the calculation. It is very cost-effective, particularly for retired people, to put their money into an excessively large house rather than into investments. Then they can collect the National Super and they don’t have to worry about the Capital Gains tax. You lose ALL the National super if a couple has assets, excluding their house, of about $800,000.
          Look at all the “McMansions” in Sydney’s west, and remember this when someone claims that Capital Gains taxes that exclude the family home are good for New Zealand and will bring down house prices. They are talking absolute rubbish.

          ” large families, extended families and grandparents all in one house. ”
          I suspect you are exaggerating the number of these in New Zealand. From the 2013 census results the average household size was only 2.7 people and the highest value, in Mangere, was only 4. That doesn’t really allow very many of the households you describe, does it?

          • Cinny 4.2.2.1.1
            30 September 2016 at 11:34 am

            good points

            • alwyn 4.2.2.1.1.1
              30 September 2016 at 12:11 pm

              I had a little deeper look at the tables published with the census.
              There are about 1.55 million households.
              Those with 8 or more usual inhabitants, which would I think be the groups you mention, totalled about 13,800. That is only 0.9%.
              Those with 7 usual inhabitants were about 15,500 or another 1%.
              Doesn’t seem very many does it?
              The biggest family I can remember from my youth had 12 kids still at home so would have been a household of 14. Seemed enormous to a little boy like me from a household of 6. Nowadays 6 would be classed as large I suppose.

      • Herodotus 4.2.3
        30 September 2016 at 10:22 am

        A 135m2 house would cost to build $270k+ then the cost of land …. $720k = $1m = the average house in Auckland. So land represents 72% of the finished price. If they built a 2 level home 200m2 =$450k+ = 60% land value which is being touted as being the norm.
        http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11353622
        – Can some not see the major driver in the cost of a house. If land was not worth as much, then developers would pay less for the undeveloped land, everything else could remain status quo.
        http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/money/83627681/nick-smith-is-millliondollar-minister-as-average-auckland-house-passes-1m-mark

      • alwyn 4.2.4
        30 September 2016 at 11:06 am

        “135 m2 is a perfectly good-sized 3-bedroom house”
        It was, for a while during the Labour Government of 1972-1975, the maximum sized house you were allowed to build in New Zealand. The then Kirk-led Government decided that no-one should be allowed to build a house that was larger than that and it was all anyone, regardless of family size needed.
        The rumour was that Norm had worked out the size of his own house in Kaiapoi, which came to 1500 square feet and used that size as the limit. Nobody deserved a home bigger than his.
        I was very unhappy about it at the time. I was having a house built which was about that size but had been consented with a carport. I wanted to change it to a garage but wasn’t allowed to as it would have then exceeded the legal limit.

    • DoublePlusGood 4.3
      30 September 2016 at 1:43 pm

      Ugh, gross. I thought that bit of land was supposed to stay green space.
      A bus stop might be directly outside, but it’s an obscenely long ride into town or indeed anywhere really. Not a smart place to be putting in housing developments. Town planning for failure.

      • Sabine 4.3.1
        30 September 2016 at 3:35 pm

        future million dollar slums, but then i guess these will be slums paid for by foreign investors that won’t live in these houses so all is good.

        and if the rent for these future slums are to high, the taxpayer of nz will be picking up slack and provide the funds for WINZ to dole out the Accomodation Supplement (cause it ain’t a benefit as i was told by a Winz Drone Customer of mine).

  6. Paul 6
    30 September 2016 at 9:45 am

    China Is Buying Land in Africa and South America to Ensure Its Food Supply

    http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/china_is_buying_land_in_south_america_and_20160926

  7. Paaparakauta 7
    30 September 2016 at 9:47 am

    This might be old news for some people, but someone was in the right place at the right time with a video camera to record the last moments of Malaysian Airways flight
    MH17.

    • te reo putake 7.1
      30 September 2016 at 11:52 am

      That’s not MH17. Probably a military aircraft. As I recall, the rebels had already shot down a couple of Ukrainian planes prior to killing the civilians. It might one of those incidents or video from somewhere else altogether.

      • Colonial Viper 7.1.1
        30 September 2016 at 1:02 pm

        I personally don’t think it is either, but how did you tell from the video that it’s not MH17?

        • Andre 7.1.1.1
          30 September 2016 at 1:37 pm

          In the video it appears that most of the plane is staying together until it goes out of frame at lowish altitude. Which seems inconsistent with the debris field of MH17 which had major parts of the plane kilometres apart.

          • Colonial Viper 7.1.1.1.1
            30 September 2016 at 4:58 pm

            Cheers Andre. I would also be surprised if that plane was higher than 10,000 to 20,000 feet up.

            • Andre 7.1.1.1.1.1
              30 September 2016 at 6:08 pm

              On the other hand, the plane appears to have a grey underside and white top and tail, which are consistent with MH17, and unlikely for a military plane…so maybe, maybe not.

  8. Paul 8
    30 September 2016 at 9:48 am

    Wadhams has visited the Polar Regions more often than any other living scientist – 50 times since he was on the first ship to circumnavigate the Americas in 1970 – and has a uniquely authoritative perspective on the changes they have undergone and where those changes will lead. From his observations and the latest scientific research, he describes how dramatically sea ice has diminished over the past three decades, to the point at which, by the time this book is published, the Arctic may be free of ice for the first time in 10,000 years.

    https://www.penguin.co.uk/books/273799/a-farewell-to-ice/

  9. mauī 9
    30 September 2016 at 9:55 am

    Just found out that Bill Mollison, the father of permaculture has died. What a guy, someone who could change your life, and not many can change so many lives like he did.

    Here’s a doco that gives a good impression of what Mollison was all about.
    https://youtu.be/k5iHc3oTgao

    RIP Mr Mollison.

  10. Morrissey 10
    30 September 2016 at 11:15 am

    Hands up if you’re appalled by RNZ National’s Susie Ferguson.
    She makes Mike Hosking look informed and balanced.
    RNZ National, Friday 30 September 2016, 8:40 a.m.

    As the U.S.-sponsored Al Qaeda insurrection in Syria continues on its bloody course, the suffering of the Syrian people is immense, and getting worse. At present the people of Aleppo are subjected to massive bombing from not only the U.S.-backed insurrectionists, but also from the Assad regime and its Russian ally. We in the West look on in horror, or feigned horror [1], and are ourselves bombarded, not with barrel bombs or white phosphorus, but with the most appalling, black-hearted, cynical propaganda.

    If ever the world needed sound and principled reporting, and intelligent and informed journalists, it is now. Unfortunately for RNZ National listeners, the crisis in Syria seems to be the domain of Susie Ferguson. We have discussed her terrible inadequacies on this forum in the past. [2] Sadly, her performance this morning shows that she has not improved one iota.

    She spoke to Kieran Dwyer of UNICEF about the humanitarian catastrophe in Aleppo, especially the toll on children there. Although she does not seem to have any detailed knowledge of the situation, Ferguson made it clear who who she holds responsible for all the carnage. The children are “victims of the regime of Bashar al Assad,” she intoned. She then asked Kieran Dwyer if “cutting off of water is being used as a weapon of war here?”

    Speaking from Damascus, Kieran Dwyer made it clear that the situation was the responsibility of not only the Syrian government and Russia, but also the U.S.-backed Al Qaeda insurrectionists: “When you attack such densely urban areas this is what happens… All sides of the conflict bear responsibility.”

    A few minutes later, toward the end of the programme, Susie Ferguson chose to read out an email by a fellow Kool Aid drinker: “Bob from Gisborned has contacted us about Aleppo. He writes: Why can’t the government of Syria and its murderous ally Russia be indicted for war crimes?

    All right, you can put your hands down now.

    [1] https://consortiumnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/28437746705_d14cdb3255_k.jpg

    [2] https://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-18112015/#comment-1097377

    • Paul 10.1
      30 September 2016 at 12:17 pm

      Ably assisted in the propaganda by John Campbell.

    • Bearded Git 10.2
      30 September 2016 at 12:28 pm

      Ferguson is pretty useless. Espiner is the man for the serious interviews (except when he is crawling up Key’s backside).

      I can’t believe Trotter (yet again) attacking Little on Bowalley Road today partly on the basis of a Ferguson interview. Trying to define the centre ground in politics is always going to be difficult. And Trotter also has a go at Little for praising Bill Shorten. While I personally love Corbyn and Sanders, Shorten actually showed a lot of backbone and stuck to his policy guns, was honest and believable and nearly pulled off the unwinnable in the Oz election. Not bad qualities for Little to admire.

      Trotter should give Little a break-wait for the policies next year.

      • Puckish Rogue 10.2.1
        30 September 2016 at 12:43 pm

        Yeah give Little some more time I mean he’s only been Labour leader since Nov 2014

        • Colonial Viper 10.2.1.1
          30 September 2016 at 1:04 pm

          Just give him another 6 months. And I think the general belief from the polls is that the Labour/GR block is confidently neck and neck with a quickly declining National. Right?

          • Puckish Rogue 10.2.1.1.1
            30 September 2016 at 1:19 pm

            So theres nothing to worry about, the left block can confidently sleep-walk to victory

            it is known

            • Colonial Viper 10.2.1.1.1.1
              30 September 2016 at 1:29 pm

              Yes I am told it’s looking pretty sweet for the Left next year: tide going out on National, country in the mood for change, people realising that Little beats that tiresome liar phoney Key, polling showing that the Lab/Gr/NZF block will have 64 plus MPs

              So yeah should be good times on The Standard, yeah

            • Ad 10.2.1.1.1.2
              30 September 2016 at 1:42 pm

              Far too close to call.

              The electorate will cope with a coalition of two.

              But any more than that, National will successfully attack like they did last time that the alternative government is simply too unstable.

              The instability factor is more and more important, the more highly leveraged couples rely on interest rates staying precisely where they are.

              • Bearded Git …
                30 September 2016 at 3:06 pm

                We do have a 4-headed monster at the moment…N/ACT/UF/MP

                • Puckish Rogue …
                  30 September 2016 at 3:45 pm

                  Theres a difference and that difference is that National chose to give those parties a say but they didn’t have to, last election National could have governed with only the Maori Party

                  So if National had wanted to it could have been a coalition of two but they chose to be inclusive

                  • Colonial Viper …
                    30 September 2016 at 4:26 pm

                    The other factor is that National is overwhelmingly dominant with MP numbers. They could have another couple of 1-2 MP support parties on side and people would still regard it as a National Government. (Not a “National-led Government.”)

                    It’s not like a Labour comprising government where 40% of the MPs are from other parties.

                • gsays …
                  30 September 2016 at 6:36 pm

                  hi bg,
                  “We do have a 4-headed monster at the moment…N/ACT/UF/MP”
                  why isn’t this highlighted more?

              • Colonial Viper …
                30 September 2016 at 4:23 pm

                The electorate will cope with a coalition of two.

                LAB/GR will never be able to reach 50% by themselves. Not in 2017, not in 2020, not in 2023.

                Their politics don’t speak to enough Kiwis to do so.

    • Gabby 10.3
      30 September 2016 at 1:03 pm

      I’m not sure that I’ve ever heard Ferguson ask an open question. She invariably presents her opinion and dares the interviewee to disagree. I guess it’s a step up from the Dipshit Henry ‘Why do you hate babies and want them to die?’ approach.

  11. marty mars 11
    30 September 2016 at 11:22 am

    This one’s for you weka as I’m sure you’ve raised this good point before

    “The set up is that Rosa Scott is a surgeon in London, 20-years in the future, trying to save lives when most of the antibiotics are no longer working. Everything else plays out of that set-up and so inevitably the obstacles she faces are related to this world.”

    http://www.treehugger.com/health/surgeon-x-apocalyptic-graphic-novel-about-how-antibiotic-resistance-will-change-way-we-live.html

    • Stunned Mullet 11.1
      30 September 2016 at 12:15 pm

      1. Most antibiotics will still work in 20 years.
      2. There will be an increased number of strains resistant to existing antibiotics but a normally functioning immune system will still deal with them in most instances.
      3. There are new antibacterials being developed.
      4. There are increasing numbers of vaccines available and being developed for bacterial and viral agents.
      etc etc etc

      • Colonial Viper 11.1.1
        30 September 2016 at 1:05 pm

        Cool, let’s keep going on this track then

        BTW how many nosocomial infection deaths in the western world last year?

        • Stunned Mullet 11.1.1.1
          30 September 2016 at 1:41 pm

          How’s that woo you deliver coming along for my diabetes ?

          • Colonial Viper 11.1.1.1.1
            30 September 2016 at 4:17 pm

            Maybe you can answer me, how many nosocomial infection deaths occurred in the western world last year?

            You know, hospital acquired pneumonia, skin infections, sepsis, etc. Come on give me a guess.

            How’s that woo you deliver coming along for my diabetes ?

            What? Please explain?

      • marty mars 11.1.2
        30 September 2016 at 3:59 pm

        sure, assuming everything goes according to some plan you have thought of and articulate so convincingly. The world has a way of being a little more unpredictable in reality.

    • Puckish Rogue 11.2
      30 September 2016 at 12:32 pm

      The artwork looks top-notch

    • weka 11.3
      30 September 2016 at 12:44 pm

      Cheers marty.

      Not sure about the whole doom thing though. Technically a simple cut can theoretically kill someone if it gets infected, but it’s unlikely that in the age of understanding hygiene that this will be an issue.

      Just waiting now for the medical lot (and the Science is god lot) to catch up on the fact that a huge number of plants are anti-bacterial, have a very long traditional use for preventing and treating bacterial infection, and we already know how to use them for many of things that antibiotics are currently overused for. We should have been saving the antibiotics for the very serious stuff, instead of squandering it on colds and flus and growing factory chickens. Hopefulll we will get there before it’s too late.

      If the graphic’s ideas about things like less surgery are right, then it’s also an opportunity for us to shift to holistic preventative medicine.

      • Colonial Viper 11.3.1
        30 September 2016 at 1:06 pm

        silver

        • weka 11.3.1.1
          30 September 2016 at 1:12 pm

          don’t know about that, but probably better to not shift to another extractive, unsustainable technology.

          • Colonial Viper 11.3.1.1.1
            30 September 2016 at 1:27 pm

            You may not want silver/colloidal silver as a help around the home but I’m definitely going to have it ahead of standard antibiotics/anti-septics.

            • TheExtremist 11.3.1.1.1.1
              30 September 2016 at 1:47 pm

              Why am I not surprised to see you pumping potentially dangerous medical advice. Colloidal silver is pure BS.

              • Colonial Viper …
                30 September 2016 at 4:11 pm

                Hey fuck head

                Are you trying to censor me with your passé 20th century scientism-nazism?

                Please tell me

                Who you think I was advising

                And what did you think that advice was

                Not my problem that you cannot recognise that in the long haul (next 40-50 years), conventional western medicine will not out race the evolution of microbes.

                Also, not my problem if you can’t tell the difference between advice for living a healthier more natural more sustainable life, and “medical” advice.

                Now, I said, “long haul” but its not even two generations away. My family is ready for it, are you.

                • McFlock …
                  30 September 2016 at 5:55 pm

                  So it was “advice”, you just reckon that taking silver before antibiotics isn’t a medical decision.

                  Genius.

                  • Colonial Viper …
                    30 September 2016 at 8:28 pm

                    Hmmmm, if it was “advice” then it was advice to myself. Try reading next time.

                    • McFlock …
                      30 September 2016 at 8:42 pm

                      I did read it.

                      I gave you the benefit of the doubt and figured that you were being your usual cowardly passive-aggressive self and stopping just short of explicitly stating your bullshit, rather than assuming that you were simply vomiting forth an assortment of irrelevant and unconnected statements with no awareness of context or coherence.

                • TheExtremist66 …
                  30 September 2016 at 8:00 pm

                  Who is censoring you?

                  Don’t confuse censoring you with ridiculing your dumb ideas.

                  • Colonial Viper …
                    30 September 2016 at 8:29 pm

                    Wait until you learn how the qi of the organs moves throughout the body nourishing and supporting all of life’s vital functions.

                    • TheExtremist …
                      30 September 2016 at 11:07 pm

                      Qi? Seriously?

                      Doubling down on your woo now?

                    • One Two []
                      1 October 2016 at 1:08 am

                      That CV consumes his own qi responding to you is his decision to make

                      Ignorance is a terrible position to live life from and your ignorance is as naked as it is possible to be..

    • joe90 11.4
      30 September 2016 at 2:38 pm

      There is promising research going on.

      But Shu Lam, a 25-year-old PhD student at the University of Melbourne in Australia, has developed a star-shaped polymer that can kill six different superbug strains without antibiotics, simply by ripping apart their cell walls.

      “We’ve discovered that [the polymers] actually target the bacteria and kill it in multiple ways,” Lam told Nicola Smith from The Telegraph. “One method is by physically disrupting or breaking apart the cell wall of the bacteria. This creates a lot of stress on the bacteria and causes it to start killing itself.”

      http://www.sciencealert.com/the-science-world-s-freaking-out-over-this-25-year-old-s-solution-to-antibiotic-resistance

  13. dv 13
    30 September 2016 at 12:30 pm

    As a matter of interest.
    How do all the commenters here, who think there is not problem ,expect to house, teachers, nurses, police, cleaners etc with the house prices?

    • Chris 13.1
      30 September 2016 at 12:34 pm

      Stick ’em in old motels.

    • Puckish Rogue 13.2
      30 September 2016 at 12:41 pm

      Funnily enough three of the four professions you named all make more then I do (and rightfully so, my job isn’t all that special in the whole scheme of things) yet I still manage to live in a decent house in a decent suburb…

      • Chris 13.2.1
        30 September 2016 at 12:44 pm

        Guess there’s no housing problem, then, eh?

        • weka 13.2.1.1
          30 September 2016 at 12:55 pm

          Lovely logic from PR there. It’s the same logic that says that if there are 100 jobs and 150 people, everyone can have a job. What is it with neoliberals’ inability to understand basic physics?

        • Puckish Rogue 13.2.1.2
          30 September 2016 at 1:00 pm

          How about people do what people have always done since we were, well, people and that’s move to a better location. Why is it now, specifically, that moving is apparently a bad thing to do?

          • weka 13.2.1.2.1
            30 September 2016 at 1:11 pm

            Pretty sure you have had this explained to you before, so I’m guessing your question is rhetorical and disingenuous, but for others reading there is this.

            For most of human history, humans have lived around people they know. We have a whole bunch of social and biological evolutionary traits connected with that that lead to healthy community.

            Expecting any or all of the population to be transient creates instability and is not the human norm. How we are experiencing it currently is an invention of neoliberalism, but it pops up periodically (think the Highland Clearances). You are advocating economically forced immigration.

            It destroys communities because it removes the people with the long memory of how things work, or the people with specialist non-commercial knowledge. Community groups function better when they are made up of people who know each other over the long term.

            It harms families because it forces people to either move away from their loved ones and their essential support or stay where they belong and be poor.

            Telling people to move in response to the housing crisis is like telling people move in a famine. Which makes sense if you have such an emergency and are desperate, except this famine is created by the investor/political class and is completely preventable and resolvable, and moving somewhere else just spreads the famine because the underlying causes aren’t being addressed.

            • Puckish Rogue 13.2.1.2.1.1
              30 September 2016 at 1:26 pm

              It destroys communities because it removes the people with the long memory of how things work, or the people with specialist non-commercial knowledge. Community groups function better when they are made up of people who know each other over the long term.

              – What load a semi-romantic bollix, might as well add in the gold old days for good measure

              It harms families because it forces people to either move away from their loved ones and their essential support or stay where they belong and be poor.

              – how about helps families because they can move somewhere cheaper to live

              You make it sound as if Auckland is NZ and vice versa, it isn’t

              • weka …
                30 September 2016 at 3:51 pm

                In other words you’ve got nothing. Try making an actual argument rather than pointing and you’re wrong.

                Eg The nuclear family that moves away from its extended support base is better off financially for a while until it needs things you can’t buy. Then what?

                No idea what your last sentence means and it’s certainly not what I said or think.

                • Colonial Viper …
                  30 September 2016 at 4:07 pm

                  There are a shit tonne of people in Auckland whose roots, and home towns, and relatives are outside of Auckland.

                  Give them decent jobs back in the provinces where they are from and they will be gone in a flash.

                  I figure you can get 200,000 people out of Auckland in 48 months doing just that.

                  And, all these people will be back in the neighbourhoods and communities that they grew up in – how good is that 🙂

                • Puckish Rogue …
                  30 September 2016 at 4:08 pm

                  Your argument is based on emotional clap trap and pseudo-science

                  How do you explain the amount of trade and travel and immigration and yes even conquests between human populations that have happened since man first became man

                  • weka …
                    30 September 2016 at 6:22 pm

                    “Your argument is based on emotional clap trap and pseudo-science”

                    Still can’t address the actual points 🙄 Go on then, point specficially to the pseudo-science. If you’re going to resort to insults, let’s at least see if they have any meaning.

                    How do you explain the amount of trade and travel and immigration and yes even conquests between human populations that have happened since man first became man

                    There are lots of ways to explain those PR, but what does that have to do with my assertion that forcing economic immigration on people harms communities and families?

                    Here’s a clue, NZ was colonised in part by the downstream effects of the Highland Clearances. If you think that the Clearances didn’t negatively affect families and communities in Western Scotland, I’d really like to hear your argument.

        • Puckish Rogue 13.2.1.3
          30 September 2016 at 1:28 pm

          Oh I’m sorry I forgot, personal experiences are permitted here

          • Chris 13.2.1.3.1
            30 September 2016 at 2:53 pm

            I’m guessing that if you own your own home you’ve done so for a while, and bought when prices were on par with incomes?

            Your logic is the same as Bennett or Key saying if they can do it everyone can do it. That’s the trouble with right-wing thinking. There’s an assumption that everyone’s the same.

            • Puckish Rogue 13.2.1.3.1.1
              30 September 2016 at 3:01 pm

              I do own my own home the bank, however, owns a whacking great part of the mortgage

              I’ve owned my home for about 7 years just after National came to power and after the massive increase in house prices under National

              Stop relying on tired, old cliches

              • ropata …
                30 September 2016 at 4:39 pm

                So you bought during the slump around 2008. Lucky bugger. Now your mates in the parasite rentier and banker class have gobbled up the market, with the Nats standing on the sidelines and drinking champagne, as thousands of kiwis are locked out of ownership, forced out of their communities, and kicked onto the streets.

                Congratulations on your financial success & moral failure.

          • Red 13.2.1.3.2
            30 September 2016 at 3:01 pm

            Geez I am glad weka that was not the view a 100 thousand or so years ago or we would never have got out of Africa, human movement is a factor of human history from year dot, what a load of idealogical, Theoretical nonsense that simply does not stack up to the facts, saying that such thinking is case in point for most left wing thought, nonsense

      • dv 13.2.2
        30 September 2016 at 2:10 pm

        Lived there long then?

        • Puckish Rogue 13.2.2.1
          30 September 2016 at 3:02 pm

          Less then a year, before that I was in another, decent suburb but I moved because I wanted to live closer to work and have a log burner

          • dv 13.2.2.1.1
            30 September 2016 at 3:38 pm

            so you are renting?

            • Puckish Rogue 13.2.2.1.1.1
              30 September 2016 at 3:47 pm

              No

              • Dv …
                30 September 2016 at 7:07 pm

                So you have owned for a number of years.
                Difficult to buy $600k on about 50k salary

                • In Vino …
                  30 September 2016 at 10:41 pm

                  Poxish Rouge, despicable troll – what do you know about the effects of vagrancy? I can tell you that the school-kids who move through 27 different schools by the time they get to the 5th form (Year 11) are pretty well doomed to educational failure. Nor can any of the schools (or rather their teachers whom you trolls like to blame) be fairly accused. You have no idea, do you? And here we are now speculating about the possible price of a house? This is the sort of diversion that Poxish Rouge loves to cause. Go jump into your log-burner.

    • Sabine 13.3
      30 September 2016 at 10:17 pm

      nah, don’t worry mate,

      they all gonna homebirth, and if it goes pearshaped either way, no biggie in the olden gooden days not all women or children survived childbirth, get a second model and try again
      they gonna all home teach – abstinence only and creative design – cause to much science is no good for anyone
      they gonna have all their own neighborhood watches – guns mate, guns.
      they all gonna clean their own offices, public toilets, restaurants, cafes etc etc or else simply not leave home (those that have one)
      they all gonna pass buckets should a house catch fire – you know just like in the gooden olden golden days.

      cause thus spoke the libertarian god of fuckwittery we don’t need no stink’n state, no stink’n socialism, no stink’n community minded good-doery and all that shit. We are self reliant, full of personal responsibility and if your shit gets stolen, burned or other wise damaged that might be good business for me 🙂

      Mind, they – the owner of empty houses and unused land could just import some slaves and call them “skill- migrants” who will be housed for food n water rations twice daily. Clothes are optional, depending if the slave is a 10 on the scale of Trump.

      But anyways, you will not get any answer from our believers. Cause you see there is no housing crisis, there are no homeless people, there are just lazy ‘ useless’ kiwis that made bad choices. And Ms. Bennett is only buying a Motel cause she is bored doing nothing cause there is no Housing Crisis and there are no homeless. I think she is trying to re-invent herself as an interior designer or some such thing.

  14. TheExtremist 14
    30 September 2016 at 12:47 pm

    John Oliver at his scathing best…

  15. adam 15
    30 September 2016 at 12:48 pm

    It’s still on going, the whole Panama Papers.

    And we still neck deep in it.

    https://www.icij.org/offshore/former-eu-official-among-politicians-named-new-leak-offshore-files-bahamas

    Is it just me or the fact one of the directors mixed up in this stuff is really hard to find information on.

    https://www.google.co.nz/search?q=Craig+Alan+Hemsworth&oq=Craig+Alan+Hemsworth&aqs=chrome..69i57j69i61&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8#q=Craig+Alan+Hemsworth&start=0

    Oh well nothing to see here, move along.

  16. weka 16
    30 September 2016 at 1:01 pm

    Lynn, a few things broken since the upgrade. The name and email fields no longer remember my details (mac Firefox and iphone Safari). We’ve had that happen before, can’t remember if the fix is your end or ours.

    The comments tab is stuck on

    “lprent on
    Open Mike 27/09/2016”

  17. Puckish Rogue 17
    30 September 2016 at 1:49 pm

    Well cricket just got that tiny bit less interesting

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11718497

  18. Puckish Rogue 18
    30 September 2016 at 3:05 pm

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/84790345/colin-craig-jury-returns-in-defamation-case

    Hopefully Colin Craig learns a lesson but it wouldn’t be much of a stretch to say he’ll appeal

    • ianmac 18.1
      30 September 2016 at 3:11 pm

      Craig naive I reckon while that Williams fellow seems to do just nasty things in collaboration with Whaleoil. The Taxpayers Union? Nasty arm of the undermine Opposition scheme.

      • Puckish Rogue 18.1.1
        30 September 2016 at 3:38 pm

        Craig is not naïve when it comes to defamation, the courts and the law, politically sure but he knew exactly what he was doing

    • Bearded Git 18.2
      30 September 2016 at 3:48 pm

      Williams won-$1.3m in damages.

      Well I got that wrong. Not that it matters really either way-Williams hardly comes out of the case with his reputation enhanced and Craig was already on the political scrapheap. I wonder if he will appeal?

  19. marty mars 19
    30 September 2016 at 3:23 pm

    Tough but necessary read

    “It’s the latest revelation in a story survivors say has haunted them for decades: the money behind the Sixties Scoop.

    The scoop, as it is called, refers to the era from the 1960s to the 1980s, when child welfare authorities scooped up Indigenous children and adopted them out to non-Indigenous families..”

    http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/sixties-scoop-americans-paid-thousands-indigenous-children-1.3781622

  20. Anne 20
    30 September 2016 at 3:27 pm

    It serves to confirm for me that the average Kiwi punter is pretty ignorant and biased. While Craig deserved to pay a price for being so foolish but he didn’t deserve to have to pay out $1.4 million to a slimy, dishonest, lying, creepy toad such as Jordan Williams.

    • Anne 20.1
      30 September 2016 at 3:34 pm

      Can’t edit :remember this?

      http://4.1m.yt/vqrExQE.png

    • Puckish Rogue 20.2
      30 September 2016 at 3:35 pm

      So you agree that Teina Pora shouldn’t have got as much money either because he had criminal convictions, was a gang prospect and confessed only to get the reward money?

      • Bearded Git 20.2.1
        30 September 2016 at 3:50 pm

        @Puckish
        Comparing Teina Pora with Jordan Williams? I didn’t think you could reach a new low, but you’ve succeeded.

        • marty mars 20.2.1.1
          30 September 2016 at 3:54 pm

          + 1 Kinda good to be reminded of the real puckish rogue – a rwnj scum-sucking turd instead of the bullshit he usually presents.

        • Puckish Rogue 20.2.1.2
          30 September 2016 at 3:59 pm

          Actually I think Teina Pora, despite his criminal background, deserves the compensation hes getting

          Jordan Williams, despite his background and morals also deserves the compensation he’ll, eventually, end up getting

          I’m asking Anne why Williams shouldn’t get compensation, apart from the fact that she dislikes Williams

          • Morrissey 20.2.1.2.1
            30 September 2016 at 4:11 pm

            Jordan Williams, despite his background and morals also deserves the compensation he’ll, eventually, end up getting

            No he does not. He has no reputation, due to his being exposed irrefutably as a fraud and a liar. You need to read Nicky Hager’s Dirty Politics.

            • Puckish Rogue 20.2.1.2.1.1
              30 September 2016 at 4:14 pm

              That’s why we have a court to decide things like this and not mob rule. However I do get and understand the emotions around this.

              • Morrissey …
                30 September 2016 at 4:25 pm

                This “verdict” is more mob rule than anything remotely like justice. It is a “verdict” of comparable calibre to the O.J. Simpson “verdict” in 1995 and the George Zimmerman “verdict” in 2013.

                • Puckish Rogue …
                  30 September 2016 at 4:27 pm

                  Sure it is, to you, but to me its fair and just however I’d also say the money paid out to David Bain was mob rule as well

                  That’s why you and I don’t decide on this

                  • Morrissey …
                    30 September 2016 at 4:39 pm

                    In what possible universe do you dwell that makes it “fair” for a demonstrated liar and scoundrel to have been ruled to have been defamed by one of his victims?

          • muttonbird 20.2.1.2.2
            30 September 2016 at 4:31 pm

            Jordan Williams didn’t spend 20 years in jail, unless I’ve got that wrong.

            • Morrissey 20.2.1.2.2.1
              30 September 2016 at 8:52 pm

              One “Stunned Mullet” writes, hilariously, about this writer, i.e. moi,

              stinking up the interwebs with your uniformed cant ?

              Is this the funniest, most deranged, not to mention illiterate, piece of rhetoric since Jordan Williams’ spew in court? I think it might be.

              Stunned Mullet, my illiterate chum, you’re a LEGEND…
              https://i.ytimg.com/vi/4Du-w1bVNbs/hqdefault.jpg

    • Stunned Mullet 20.3
      30 September 2016 at 3:51 pm

      I think you’ll find the amount is so large due to the fact that Craig has been found guilty of defamation and more importantly the defamation was in the form of a document sent to every household in NZ.

      I also don’t know what the ‘average kiwi punter’ has to do with it ?

    • Morrissey 20.4
      30 September 2016 at 4:09 pm

      How can someone with no credibility be defamed? I see, by the way, that Chris Trotter has penned a pompous and absurd attack on Craig, one that he can file away with his defence of Florida lynch law a few years ago.
      http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/84593628/chris-trotter-colin-craigs-behaviour-would-embarrass-a-spotty-adolescent

      • Garibaldi 20.4.1
        30 September 2016 at 4:15 pm

        Yet another day ruined by Puckish Rogue and his mates.

        • Puckish Rogue 20.4.1.1
          30 September 2016 at 4:29 pm

          I assure I had nothing to do with this 🙂

        • Anne 20.4.1.2
          30 September 2016 at 4:39 pm

          Not really Garibaldi.
          Its good to be reminded they are members of the same slimy, dishonest, lying, creepy R.W. gang as the toad, J Williams. If you look at the smiling picture of J Williams on the web sites, it is exactly what you would expect a human version of a toad would look like. Quite uncanny. 🙂

          • james 20.4.1.2.1
            30 September 2016 at 4:41 pm

            Gee Anne, you are particularly bitter today.

            Thanks for the laughs.

            • In Vino 20.4.1.2.1.1
              30 September 2016 at 8:26 pm

              Hollow laughs from another hollow troll. Well said, Anne. I suppose you will now make a dumb comment about bias, James…

    • james 20.5
      30 September 2016 at 4:46 pm

      I would argue that you are a lot more biased than the average kiwi punter who you consider to be pretty ignorant.

  21. james 21
    30 September 2016 at 4:44 pm

    It was interesting case to follow.

    Cant wait for the Hagaman’s vs Little – a little election year comedy.

    If Little loses – wonder what the compensation and punitive damages would be on a case like that…..

    • McFlock 21.1
      30 September 2016 at 5:07 pm

      pacific fisheries ambassador?

    • Naki man 21.2
      30 September 2016 at 5:53 pm

      “If Little loses – wonder what the compensation and punitive damages would be on a case like that…..”

      I think little will be shitting himself now.

    • Naki man 21.3
      30 September 2016 at 10:26 pm

      “Cant wait for the Hagaman’s vs Little – a little election year comedy”

      True that, Colin Craig vs Cameron Slater will be interesting too.

  22. Richard Rawshark 22
    30 September 2016 at 5:21 pm

    Tony Ryall, just been appointed chair of Transpower by Bill English, slipping under the headlines quietly today.

    Well done Tony who recently retired from National as health minister, after many years of living off the taxpayer and has been installed By National to chair a power company. Good stuff, expect power costs to increase in an area near you soon.

    • Colonial Viper 22.1
      30 September 2016 at 5:28 pm

      You have to admire how the Tories look after their own. As long as you keep towing the line and not rocking the boat.

    • Muttonbird 22.2
      30 September 2016 at 7:17 pm

      Was he the one who sold Bowen House all those years ago, an asset which now has to be rebought or replaced at taxpayer expense?

    • left for dead 22.3
      30 September 2016 at 7:33 pm

      Oh Richard have a closer look TP, they have just spit of their renewable side, both high in debt and at a cost of about 75-85 million, Dene McKenize of ODT fame wanked on about it last Saturday I think, cant link, to inept, but goggle be your friend, as Draco says.

  23. fender 23
    30 September 2016 at 6:03 pm

    I’m surprised nobody has made mention of the Silver Scrolls 2016 held last night. Moana Maniapoto was inducted into the NZ Music Hall of Fame and gave the most fantastic speech imaginable. It is begins at 13:18 mins into this vid on RNZ.