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Open mike 31/12/2022

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, December 31st, 2022 - 66 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

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66 comments on “Open mike 31/12/2022 ”

  1. Mac1 1

    Received an email from Better Public Media with results of a new poll conducted in early December showing support for the RNZ/TVNZ merger is far higher 60% to 40% than the Taxpayer Curia poll of October showed. Don't knows were about 30%.


    This calls into question in my mind the validity of the Taxpayer poll with a result showing low support for Three Waters. https://www.taxpayers.org.nz/three_waters_poll

    The Taxpayer Union poll for the media merger was similar. https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/130662484/majority-of-people-dont-want-rnz-and-tvnz-to-merge-survey-says

    Can we trust Taxpayer/Curia polls?

    • Anne 1.1

      Can we trust Taxpayer/Curia polls?"

      NO. There have been enough of them over recent years to demonstrate they are slanted in the direction of the Right. It is easy to do by way of the wording of the questions and choosing the demographic more favourable to right-wing political parties.

      I also get the Better Public Media emails and it is frustrating that the truth about the merger is out there, but is being twisted and distorted by those who oppose the merger which is the majority of the right-wing 'tabloid' media (who among other things are answerable to the commercial advertisers) and NACT who are donkey deep with the advertisers.

      Having said that, I have to say the government has thus far done a poor job of explaining the merger and the rationale behind it.

    • rod 1.2

      No. End of story.

    • As much as we can trust any polling, yes. These organisations often ask a question designed to solicit a particular response. If you look at the actual question asked by the Better Public Media poll, you will get an idea of how it was framed to get exactly the outcome they wanted.

  2. joe90 2

    Hopefully the toxic prick is properly fucked.

    On 29.12.2022, the prosecutors of the Directorate for the Investigation of Organized Crime and Terrorism – Central Structure together with police officers from the Bucharest Organized Crime Brigade implemented 5 home search warrants in a case in which investigations under the aspect of committing the crimes of constituting an organized criminal group, human trafficking and rape.
    In the case, it was noted that, at the beginning of 2021, 4 suspects (two British citizens and two Romanian citizens) constituted a criminal group organized in order to commit on the territory of Romania, but also of other countries, such as the United States of America and Great Britain, of the crime of human trafficking.

    Victims were recruited by British citizens by misrepresenting their intention to enter into a marriage/cohabitation relationship and the existence of genuine feelings of love (the loverboy method). They were later transported and housed in buildings in Ilfov county where, by exercising acts of physical violence and mental coercion (through intimidation, constant surveillance, control and invoking alleged debts), they were sexually exploited by group members by forcing them to perform demonstrations pornographic for the purpose of producing and disseminating through social media platforms material having such a character and by submitting to the execution of a forced labor,
    So far, 6 injured persons have been identified who were sexually exploited by the organized criminal group.
    With regard to the crime of rape, it was noted that, in March 2022, an injured person was forced, on two different occasions, by a suspect through the exercise of physical violence and psychological pressure to have sexual relations.
    At the headquarters of the Directorate for the Investigation of Organized Crime and Terrorism – Central Structure, 4 people who are reasonably suspected of being involved in criminal activity were taken for questioning. Following the hearings, the prosecutors of the Directorate for the Investigation of Organized Crime and Terrorism – Central Structure ordered the 4 persons to be detained for a period of 24 hours.
    The activities were also attended by police officers from the Ilfov Organized Crime Service and the Service for Combating Human Trafficking, as well as gendarmes from the Special Intervention Brigade of the Gendarmerie.
    We make it clear that during the entire criminal process, the investigated persons benefit from the procedural rights and guarantees provided by the Code of Criminal Procedure, as well as the presumption of innocence.



    press release about Tate’s arrest in April


  3. bwaghorn 3

    $10 for the cheapest dozen eggs in the supermarket. !!

    This ball started rolling in 2012, this should highlight how carefully any ideological policy to improve farming needs to thought trough.

    (This doesn't mean I condone squalid battery hen farming btw)

    • weka 3.1

      the industry had ten fucking years to think it through. The current situaion isn't about an ideological policy, it's about factory farming not giving a shit and doing the mahi of transitioning.

      • bwaghorn 3.1.1


        Or you could put ypur big person pants on ,and realise it's far more complicated.

        And my point isn't that the people who the policy directly affected didn't respond un the way that was hoped.

        It's that the policy makers didn't see the problem in the making and factor that in, it's supposedly why we elect them .

        • weka

          Calling farmers silly and lazy is silly and lazy. I haven’t seen that, but I can imagine it’s part of the rhetoric on sm. This is why I talked about the industry, not individual farmers. I don’t think farmers are lazy. I think the block is more that many farmers and those in the industry have a major philosophical/values difference from people wanting an end to animal cruelty. Thus the industry doesn't have enough skills, knowledge, or people to enable transition. Like with dairying and other industrial ag, the advice farmers are given is bad in terms of sustainability.

          The article evidences this: a big chunk of the industry chose colony cages instead of barns or free range. If one doesn’t care about animal welfare and/or one thinks economics are more important, then of course the industry will chose the easiest and most obviously economic option. I don’t know why colony cages were included as an option but I’ll hazard a guess it’s for the same reason industrial farming is being enabled to drag the chain on climate.

          The author clearly doesn’t value animal welfare and prioritises economics. Hence his argument that Europe going with colony cages means NZ should too.

          Despite the argument in the piece about colony cages, the left parties and the supermarkets, it’s been obvious for a long time that NZ society was becoming more progressive on animal welfare. Again, if one doesn’t value animal welfare then one is unlikely to pay attention to these changes. It’s a values conflict.

          Good on the farmers that went to barns and free range. Steps in the right direction. Some farmers got it. Many farmers want to do the right things, and government and industry isn’t very good at enabling those ones. To me it looks like not a problem with the policy, but that there is a chunk of farmers and industry people that just weren’t on board with the point: animal welfare. But policy makers are also often mainstream, so I see it more being on voters 😉

          Hickman points to interest on loans for land. Can’t have it both ways. If you support neoliberal capitalism you will have problems with costs.

          Likewise the price of grains. None of what the industry was doing is sustainable. It’s like they haven’t heard of food security and future proofing. None of what is happening with our current crises is news to many of us that have been working on sustainability.

          • Sacha

            The author clearly doesn’t value animal welfare and prioritises economics. Hence his argument that Europe going with colony cages means NZ should too.

            You seem to be reading intent well beyond his actual words from the article:

            Barn systems weren’t well known in New Zealand at the time and moving to free-range would require massive amounts of land, so despite the cost colonies were seen as the logical next step.

            Animal welfare groups did not like this development, as far as they were concerned a cage is a cage and one form of factory farming was just being swapped for a slightly better form, this despite colonies being a major method of harvesting eggs in Europe after battery cages were banned a decade ago.

            • Graeme

              There's also a demand side to this as well. Demand spiked with Christmas and everyone wanting to make a pav for the big day. So some supermarkets bid higher for the finite number of eggs available and got priority. Those that didn't up their bids missed out, these would have been the ones that had low margins on eggs to get customers in the door, hence some supermarkets with empty shelves and the one down the road full but at higher price (maybe)

              What the article doesn't cover is any role supermarket buying behaviour has had on the 20% reduction in egg production. There's certainly plenty of examples of producers in other fields giving it away because of the behaviour of the two supermarket chains.

            • weka

              yeah it was that last paragraph. Maybe there is another way to read that, but I took it as him saying colony cages where an acceptable form of farming. I also took him to be saying that because Europe was using them, this mean they were better. Or something. Didn't see anything about concern for the hens.

    • weka 3.2

      btw, from a sustainability design pov, there's a big opportunity here. People have been organising to buy the chickens from the factories. What we could be doing is putting the resources in place to enable households and communities to start keeping laying hens and producing eggs.

      Two things will happen immediately from that: one is that more people will understand how much it costs to produce food. Two is that it builds resiliency, which is exactly what we need for climate and the cost of living crises.

      From that comes sustainability and regenerative practice (how to do small scale egg production affordable).

      And no, I didn't just say everyone should grow their own eggs.

      • bwaghorn 3.2.1

        The much asked for (by the offspring) chicken coop will be getting built as soon as economically viable I tell you.

        • weka


          I'm tempted but probably not in my reach atm.

        • We had 24 hens twice a year. Two dozen day old chicks would arrive. Half of them were grown for the pot, along with pullet and hen eggs. My job was to mix the mash. Mum had a mincer, and used to mince up left over veg which went into the mash as well. Cabbage leaves and outside lettuce leaves were always attacked with gusto by the hens. They needed grit wheat and corn, and would scratch and chortle when content.
          I have happy childhood memories of "Cluck" who lives for 5 years raising brood after brood.

          They are work, and rat dog cat weasel and stoats thunder and lightning could frighten them to death. Putting an extra fence round the coop kept pests at bay, long enough for the chickens to roost high.
          Their greatest joy was scratching and bug catching in the garden. Their flight feathers have to trimmed to allow short flights but not escape. They need dust baths and a water trough. They are dirty so straw is needed, but that makes great replenishment for the garden.

          We had black and white hens, renowned for egg laying . B&W Orpingtons? from memory. A simpler time.

      • DB Brown 3.2.2

        Chickens eat grain and meat.

        Everyone buying bags of wheat (and the pellets of God-knows what hort and ag byproducts) from the supermarket to turn into eggs. Sustainable?

        Not even healthy. On the label – Do not feed to ruminants! Animals get the stuff sausage makers reject.

        Who really has sufficient kitchen scraps to maintain chickens laying. So, do you starve your animals to be ideologically pure, or go out hunting for food so your egg provision suddenly became a job. I collected flax, acorns, wild grass seed, windfalls, rubbish… Dumpster diving for your chooks. It's all the rage.

        What about water, medications, dust baths, shelter, shade, what about noise pollution and irate neighbours. What about faeces, feathers? What about worms, mites, scale, vets bills.

        Chooks in orchard and food forest systems reduce pest problems out by taking windfalls (the first windfalls are typically host of insect pests) at very few birds per acre. That works well, but they won't lay like egg producers want. They do OK… In an urban setting, a section, with a coop on it someplace, ideology can take a flying leap I guess – you'll need grains/pellets.

        Now geese eat grass…

        If we were to shift the market toward being sustainable (empty shelves simply are not), we should have thought about what we're actually doing. Explore many options. By slowly introduced alternate eggs, and chefs on TV and the web to pimp them out.

        Ecological literacy is sorely required whenever pushing environmental ideology.

        Labour made mistakes, National made mistakes, industry made mistakes, supermarkets made mistakes…

        We mere mortals pay.

        • weka

          most people will rely on grains and won't understand the problems with that. Most people don't have ecological literacy, or the systems thinking that would tie the egg crisis into neighbourhood regenerative transition and food security.

          Most MPs don't have ecological literacy either. Not policy makers. It's really the biggest problem with face right now.

          I expect some of the new at home egg production to harm hens. But I also think this is less harmful than caged hens, and it can be lessened if 'we' do the mahi around that.

          • DB Brown

            I do think some neat systems will come of all this, meanwhile industry and consumers aren't finding much neat about the balls-up.

            Patricia has some good stuff to say about chooks for sure.

            I'm not sure of the volume of our hort industries wastes potentially for feeding chooks I reckon it'd be substantial. Also other organic matter as you can run good layer flocks on composting systems and make highly desirable compost in the process. Then you've got birds, eggs and compost as products.

            These systems can be as simple as a chicken tractor dealing with a farms waste:

            To a dedicated compost facility with flock/s.

        • Macro

          6th day of Christmas today. Did you get 6 geese a laying?

          We have a pear tree out the back but it seems the partridge got away. 🙁

          • Shanreagh

            I have two pear trees so by rights should have had two…but no.

            I have a new plum though and the books say to reduce the crop, does this really mean the remaining plum has to be sacrificed. I have eaten one already.

            Really I am asking for a friend.

            There is learning going on though about moving the plum to shelter before bud and flower time as wind caught it. I would have really had a problem had all the little plums come to something!

            ETA I thought the days from Christmas started before 25/12 so that at 25/12 you got the whole lot……I thought I was going to have trouble with the geese but the possible egg shortage has meant I was able to sell those on TM at enormous profit.

          • weka

            what would be our equivalent of a partridge? Pukeko? 😈

  4. Reality 5

    Fully agree Anne. He is a New Zealander we can all be immensely proud of.

    Currently in NSW. All the issues making headlines in NZ in recent times are also replicated here. Cost of living, housing, pot holes ……

  5. millsy 6

    Last day of 2023.

    Doesnt time go fast.

    Congratulations to Sir Ashley.

  6. tsmithfield 7

    For those who want to delve into some batshit crazy Russian thinking…

    In this video, philosopher and historian Vlad Vexler delves into why Crimea is so important to the Russians.

    It turns out that at least as far back as Catherine the Great, Russians see Crimea as being their ancient Greece, and that they have an ancient lineage back to Greek culture, essentially making them more European than the Europeans, crazy as it seems.
    All based on an elaborate and highly tenuous line of logic the Russians have constructed over the years.

    The upshot is that Crimea is a core component of Russian identity, and so losing Crimea may not be great for Putin for his longevity, or could end up being a motivation for Russia going to total war, resulting in full mobilisation of Russia.

    Vexler is a great source on the Russian philosophy side of things, himself being a Russian living in Great Britain now. Lots of much deeper insights than those of us on the outside would have.

  7. Jilly Bee 8

    Reading Janet Wilson's column in the Waikato Times this morning (also on the Stuff website) and managing not to choke on my cup of tea, I did wonder if she was deliberately being disingenuous or does suffer from (selective) amnesia. Ye Gods, it was her beloved National Party – John Key in particular who overturned the Clark Government's ditching of the old Honours sytem in favour of our own home grown version so he could become a Knight of the Realm when he retired!!! https://www.stuff.co.nz/opinion/130878733/janet-wilson-make-honours-system-standalone-and-free-of-political-influence

    PS – congratulations Sir Ashley Bloomfield, an honour well deserved, along with Dame Farah Palmer and Dame Miranda Harcourt.

  8. Francesca 9

    This Danish journalist kicked out of both Russia and Ukraine stood up for journalistic integrity.Makes one wonder how other journalists survive in this war zone .


  9. Johnr 10

    Dunno what I've done wrong, but I can't get any of mickey savages posts for the past week or so, only the comments. Also today open Mike says there are 26 comments, but when I call it up it then says and displays only 4 comments.

    If you have a cure please explain in old fart terms.

    Have a good year people, and travel well.

    • weka 10.1

      it's a bug that the sysop is working on.

      Are you on a phone or ipad/tablet? Any info you can share about your device would be helpful.

      • Johnr 10.1.1

        Hey, thanks for your response. I live on my boat and am currently in the mahurangi harbour, due to jobs needing done on my son's boat.

        My communication with the outside world is; cell phone, VHF and SSB. Cell phone is a bit marginal up here ( 2 bars is a good day).

        I really value The Standards repartee and thoughtful posts. But who is this sysops guy, perhaps he needs controlling (sarc).

        I'm amazed and thankful that people are so giving of their time to operate a site like this.

        Travel well.

    • lprent 10.2

      Sounds like something that I'm looking at (and making no headway on).

  10. mary_a 11

    Congratulations to Dr Sir Ashley Bloomfield. A well deserved honour.

  11. rod 12

    Agree 100%. Mary. But get ready for the moaners and whingers.

  12. weka 13

    Anyone still paying attention?

    • Joe90 13.1


  13. pat 14

    A new year and NZ in a cleft stick….

    Aligned with the west and reliant on China…decisions decisions.

  14. I'm sorry, but no level of research is going to make anyone who saw Jaws feel any less anxiety about Great White Sharks.


    It may be fiction, but it's embedded in our psyche….

    Bloody terrifying movie! I went on the Universal Studio tour in LA a few years back – which includes a 'live' experience – screams galore.

  15. Graeme 16

    Strange New Year's eve on the outskirts of Queenstown. We're beside SH6 about 20km east of Queenstown and the road is exceptionally quiet, like quieter than a normal weekday, and the bulk of traffic seems to be heading out of town. Normally NYE is a constant stream of cars in fully party mode from early evening.

  16. aj 17

  17. adam 18

    I hope I don't have to scroll past so much twitter in 2023…

  18. Happy New Year folks. I am in the Bay of Islands. Gotta get away from teh intarwebz

  19. Eco Maori 20

    Ki te aha Whano we wish you all a Prosperous new year.

    Kia Kaha

    Ka kite Ano.

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