Our word is our bond

Written By: - Date published: 8:30 am, November 26th, 2009 - 22 comments
Categories: Environment, maori party - Tags: ,

Maori Party policy on the environment:

We aspire to work together to make the economy great but not at the expense of our environment. Climate change affects us all and the biggest emitters must take responsibility to change the way they do business. Any cost they pass on to consumers must encourage environmentally responsible choices. The principle must be that polluters pay.

Yesterday the Maori Party helped National pass an ETS that does the exact opposite, ensuring that taxpayers (not polluters) pay, ensuring that the biggest emitters must take no responsibility at all. The Maori Party said of this action:

Our word is our bond.

Maori Party leaders – your word is not your bond. Your word is worth nothing – the modern equivalent of thirty pieces of silver. To the Maori Party membership, to those who have not forgotten their principles and wanted to keep their word, to those who were ignored and betrayed by their own “leaders” – the next move is up to you…

22 comments on “Our word is our bond ”

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  1. vto 1
    26 November 2009 at 8:40 am

    You sound all hot under the collar r0b. Such heat tho would have more credence if it were applied consistently and honestly across the political spectrum.

    • sk 1.1
      26 November 2009 at 8:47 am

      rOb has every right to be ‘hot under the collar’. These moments do not happen very often in NZ politics. As Russel Norman pointed out the closest analogue is the Social Credit and the Clyde Dam. Then we lost the Cromwell Gorge, this time we have lost much more

      • vto 1.1.1
        26 November 2009 at 8:57 am

        Not quite SK. The closest is the EFA authored by the ‘great’ Helen Clark, which r0b thought was the best thing since sliced bread and defended with every breath available in the day.

        • r0b 1.1.1.1
          26 November 2009 at 9:05 am

          r0b thought was the best thing since sliced bread and defended with every breath available in the day

          Neither of those things are true vto, though I did and still defend it over all. As does, in effect, National, by proposing very few changes to it. They sold you a sack of lies vto, and you still don’t see it.

        • sk 1.1.1.2
          26 November 2009 at 9:29 am

          vto, the EFA was a screwed up piece of legislation that was trying to address a fundamental flaw in NZ’s democracy, namely the ability to donate unlimited amounts anonymously or to fund a third party campaign. Neither are freedoms that should be cherished or protected.

          The ETS is about failing to deal in a serious manner with the biggest global issue of the next 20 years. We messed up the 70’s under Muldoon by opting for naïve populism instead of accepting that the world was changing, and that we needed to adapt, and under John Key we are doing exactly the same thing again.

          Yesterday was a very depressing day for anyone with a sense of NZ history, and the EFA is not a relevant part of that history.

          • Sam 1.1.1.2.1
            26 November 2009 at 10:51 am

            Ahhh isn’t it refreshing to see the right reverting to the same old tactics – if in doubt, fall back on the EFA and scream louder and longer than anyone about democracy under attack until everyone has forgotten what the problem was.

    • r0b 1.2
      26 November 2009 at 9:02 am

      The old “Labour did it too” line vto? Subbing for Burt?

      Think for a while. Now that National stand exposed to all as the short-sighted, grasping, lying fools that they have always been (but successfully hid from you for the last election) – doesn’t it make you re-evaluate their claims and attacks over the last few years? Labour were never guilty of much of what they were accused of, it was National throwing mud, and getting it to stick to an old government. But surely you can see now that the mud they were throwing was the mud they were wallowing in.

      So yes, I’m angry, uniquely angry, at what has just happened. It’s the biggest stupidest ugliest mess and betrayal since the neoliberal madness of the 80’s. In case you’ve missed the memo – this doesn’t end well.

  2. vto 2
    26 November 2009 at 9:19 am

    ha ha r0b, you do amaze me how you manage to work up an excuse for absolutely everything that labour did. Perhaps it is all the shining halos which are causing your blindness.

    And quite frankly the “they did it too” line applies always. It will continue to be used because it exposes people’s credibility and hypocrisy. I do not have blind allegiance to some political doctrine r0b, and as such can see things more clearly and feel free to call something smelly when it is smelly, no matter national, labour, act, maori, etc.

    Do you feel free to call something smelly when it is smelly r0b? I think not – example being your absence over the Harawira stench.

    Labour’s passing of the EFA was appalling. Something like that should be attended to on a bipartisan basis, but it wasn’t. The electoral system belonged to the people of NZ, not the government, and especially not then desperate Helen Clark.

    Just like this piece of legislation.

    That you cannot see the similarities in the manner in which both laws have come about reflects on your blinkered politics.

    • r0b 2.1
      26 November 2009 at 9:29 am

      I do not have blind allegiance to some political doctrine r0b, and as such can see things more clearly

      Uh huh.

      I think not example being your absence over the Harawira stench.

      I’m absent from a lot of topics vto, especially some of the busiest ones where I have nothing to add to what is already said (or which get hung up on personalities like all the endless stuff on the women involved in the Worth affair).

      Labour’s passing of the EFA was appalling

      Then why didn’t National change it? Seriously vto – if the EFA was so bad, why does National’s revised version make no significant changes? Why is that vto?

      Once again, National sold you a lie, and you’re still running with it. Oh sorry – I forgot, you “do not have blind allegiance to some political doctrine” – my mistake then.

      • vto 2.1.1
        26 November 2009 at 9:43 am

        r0b, we can battle all day. I could simply ask you why Labour reversed diddlysquat of the “failed policies of the nineties” and the ‘neo-lib revolution’ etc etc.? Eh? Why is that? Did labour sell you lies which you are still running with?

        Anyway if you read my points closely you will see that the problem with the EFA was the manner in which it was passed, the content was secondary. It is the manner in which the ETS has been passed which galls you in this post. Me too, just like the EFA.

        Btw, I do also enjoy the way you link to yourself for proof of your own points.

        Anyway, I know you never give up or concede so I’ll leave you fullas and fullesses to it. Peace.

        • r0b 2.1.1.1
          26 November 2009 at 9:54 am

          why Labour reversed diddlysquat of the “failed policies of the nineties’ and the ‘neo-lib revolution’ etc etc.? Eh? Why is that? Did labour sell you lies which you are still running with?

          I quite agree vto, Labour should have done more to fix this. In particular I am very disappointed that Labour never lifted the benefits back to their pre “mother of all budgets” levels.

          EFA was the manner in which it was passed, the content was secondary.

          The EFA enjoyed, up until it’s third reading, the support of the significant majority of parties in parliament. The ETS did not. What you think was wrong with the EFA process is about 80% Tory grandstanding that you still believe.

          Btw, I do also enjoy the way you link to yourself for proof of your own points.

          I try and reference my posts well with lots of links vto. When I link back to my posts it’s shorthand for linking back to the supporting material they contain.

          Peace.

          Indeed, have a good one.

          • Roger Anderson 2.1.1.1.1
            26 November 2009 at 12:28 pm

            Also with the EFA, it wasn’t rushed through under urgency but was given a very long time in select commitee in which several of the aspects of the legislation had been altered. You can’t say that the EFA was passed in an appalling manner when the public were given full opportunity to present their case and have some of it put into practice. What was appalling was the media reporting of this and National’s behaviour which ensured that there was never going to be a chance for bipartisan consensus. Now that National is in power, it is funny how this legislation has evolved from being a threat to freedom of speech to an aid to transparency. The ETS on the other hand is being pushed under urgency removing public scrutiny and is also without bipartisan support, even though Labour had created its own one.

    • RedLogix 2.2
      26 November 2009 at 9:36 am

      The EFA is irrelevant to your arguement vto.

      Most of the opposition to the EFA was political noise. Once in power National altered a few things at the margins that didn’t suit them, but broadly retained most of it. We now have electoral legislation that has broad bi-partisan, fully democratic support.

      So much for your rantings.

  3. gitmo 3
    26 November 2009 at 9:29 am

    I think the ETS is a crock of shite but instead of the bombast it might be useful to post the similarities/differences between this and the previously proposed ETS.

    From where I sit both do sweet FA in regards to emissions and climate change and there was only some marginal differences around how directly/indirectly we were going to be fleeced.

  4. Deus ex Machina 4
    26 November 2009 at 9:50 am

    This is the way the World ends,
    This is the way the World ends,
    This is the way the World ends,
    Not with a bang, but with the squabbling of the childish.

    (With apologies to T.S. Eliot)

  5. marty mars 5
    26 November 2009 at 10:07 am

    You are raising fair points r0b

    I was hoping the maori party could work across the political spectrum.

    IMO labour are no friends to maori, the shock of their betrayal is still raw and just look at goffs recent pronouncements – all i hear are brash-mini-me-isms – we may actually need a maori-left party and hone is not the man for that job.

    If the ‘greatest land-grab in our history’ is repealed perhaps the maori party will be vindicated, for that is the real promise that they have made, but my breath is not being held

    divide and divide is the way you disempower people, or keep them disempowered and that is happening to maori

    and the smiling maori members of parliment looking on at the maori party shambles make me ill, for they are part of the divide/divide paradigm – my enemies enemy is my friend even if they are my enemy too

    i’m a maori party/green voter, i’m left – where is my political home and voice?

    but you know, it could be the end of the beginning rather than the beginning of the end – after all the maori party only started 64 months ago

    • Draco T Bastard 5.1
      26 November 2009 at 11:09 am

      i’m a maori party/green voter, i’m left where is my political home and voice?

      I would suggest the Green party. They happen to be left leaning, green and don’t seem to be racist.

      • marty mars 5.1.1
        26 November 2009 at 12:59 pm

        Thanks for that suggestion Draco

        I think my prediciment is common and maybe it is because we still have big monolith parties trying to be everything to everyone, even at the green and maori party level, let alone the gnats and labs.

        If we can hold onto MMP it might be nice to see smaller groupings which can coalesce, when they have to. At least we would know what the hell they stand for.

        don’t worry i know i’m a dreamer 🙂

        • Draco T Bastard 5.1.1.1
          26 November 2009 at 4:51 pm

          Steve Keen did a calculation of how long it would take to make a perfectly rational decision on what to buy at a corner shop with 50 items. The time was 80 billion years now imagine what it would be like if we had 50 political parties….

          Actually, if you have concerns for your sanity, you may not want to do that 😀

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