Remember President Obama?

Written By: - Date published: 10:24 am, March 20th, 2018 - 79 comments
Categories: China, Donald Trump, International, Russia, us politics - Tags:

A decade ago, the first black President of the United State of America was elected. For those who want to enjoy that moment again, and revel in some of the best and highest political rhetoric we’ve seen in many a year, here’s his speech in Chicago when he first won:

I remember where I was when I heard that. That guy is in our town; a Democrat who is friendly, coherent, smart.

In just a few short years the axis of the world has tilted.

I don’t have to mention his successor Mr You-Know-Who, or compare him to President Obama. That’s too easy.

Let me simply say that the towering political leaders of our time now rest elsewhere – in Russia and China.

That impacts us in New Zealand.

With the investiture of Xi Jinping as China’s President for as long as he wishes, and the re-election of President Vladimir Putin until 2024, we are getting to that point where authoritarian regimes are exerting stronger and stronger influence compared to states who strongly support human rights and the rule of anything New Zealand might recognise as civil law.

This is good for no-one in New Zealand.

And it is also misleading to bracket Putin and Jinping together, when read through the lens of New Zealand interests.

New Zealand’s interests, as a small and indebted but wealthy and liberal and highly trade-dependent state, are in sustaining international orders that support trade and the free flow of capital to support our mortgages. That’s what pays the bills that afford our globally generous social welfare system.

We share little in common with Russia or its leader. A tiny few of Russia’s oligarchs like to holiday here as a mutation of the quarry-enclave economy that kept us afloat through the 19th century, in which all kinds of foreigners set up camp with compounds and extract stuff as fast as possible, with not a whole bunch of horizontal distribution to locals. We’ve welcomed it since we became a country, but this government is putting the brakes on a part of it.

 

Whereas China, and Chinese state interests, are here for good. Chinese culture and people and capital are a powerful presence, fully accepted as a strong part of who we are.

There are no Russian construction companies or cranes on our cities’ horizons – but Chinese developers are now some of the strongest infrastructure and hotel and apartment developers we now have.

How can New Zealand retain its democratic and sensitive liberal principles concerning human rights and diversity when in 2018 the situation is so different to the era of President Barack Obama? There has been a shock to the system, in the form of the repositioning of the U.S. and the U.K. The U.S. has withdrawn from CPTPP, threatened to withdraw from NAFTA, revised commitments to the Korea-U.S. Preferential Trade Agreement, and launched a full trade war on China through steel and aluminium tariffs. The United States has less and less alignment with our political interests.

My small hope is that more and more smaller countries see that the cost of being left out is greater in a cooperative rather than a divided world, so others may be willing to re-engage tomorrow. Small hope.

In terms of friends, New Zealand has far fewer than we had on the grounds of human rights and our old allies, and a lot more commercial partners through CPTPP. Which doesn’t answer the question posed above.

Certainly, Australia now wilfully ignores us, excludes us, and acts entirely in their interests.

New Zealand is too small, too interconnected, too vulnerable in its trade and capital and human flows, for similar self-involvement.

This is a major moment of international and ideological realignment for New Zealand, and it’s getting colder outside.

Obama’s presence here reminds us of how far and how fast that realignment is occurring.

79 comments on “Remember President Obama? ”

  • Comments are now closed

  1. Keepcalmcarryon 1
    20 March 2018 at 11:13 am

    Trump is in because Obama was all talk.
    We need free flowing capital to pay our mortgages? We need a system which doesn’t rely on selling assets offshore to support a real estate ponzi scheme for Auckland home owners and farmers.

    • Sabine 1.1
      20 March 2018 at 11:49 am

      Ithink to be fair we should admit that the republican party decided very early on that a. he was gonna be a one term president – which did not happen, and then b. they would vote NO – on everything he proposes including a Supreme Judge nominee etc etc etc.

      o fcourse, the only reason Trump won – as we all know – was the economic anxiety of the white evangelic male and his beloved spouse. Nothing to do with a bit of sexism thrown in, nothing to do with pandering to the ‘forced birther’ crowd, nothing to do with Trump promising that he would undo everything Obama did manage to get done, nothing to do that the republican candidates were uninspiring and not radical enough, no t’was all uniquely the fault of Obama, the Democratic Party and Hillary Clinton.

      🙂 🙂 🙂

    • Adrian Thornton 1.2
      20 March 2018 at 12:30 pm

      Keepcalmcarryon+1
      Obama gave the world Trump….what a sad legacy for the first Black potus to be remembered by!

      • Unicus 1.2.1
        22 March 2018 at 4:58 pm

        He may have lost a few friends along the way but not that many that he would need to call slithering John Key a ” friend” the way our fatally biased media is pretending .

        Now that he realises he’s been set up by the national party as a media patsy mY guess is his private opinion will resemble that of a man who has inadvertantly stood in a wet dog turd
        Yeeechh !

  2. Siobhan 2
    20 March 2018 at 11:29 am

    Obama certainly has had some quite special impacts on our World…There was an interesting piece in the Atlantic by Adam Serwer, ex MotherJones, entitled “Obama’s Legacy of Impunity for Torture”, which I guess explains the Democrats support for giving The Donald greater spying powers over his own people.

    https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2018/03/obamas-legacy-of-impunity-for-torture/555578/

    http://www.newsweek.com/bipartisanship-saves-gov-right-spy-americans-778442

    • joe90 2.1
      20 March 2018 at 11:44 am

      As we’ve found out over the last wee while, the real threat to privacy, democracy and the rule of law isn’t the state.

      It’s Facebook and their ilk, and they’ve used our own need for free stuff and look at me, look at me narcissism to con us.

      • Sabine 2.1.1
        20 March 2018 at 11:52 am

        no you got that wrong, its not the republican party, its not our need for free stuff and shit, its the fault of the democratic party. Only their fault.

      • Siobhan 2.1.2
        20 March 2018 at 11:53 am

        how about both being a threat?
        tweedledum and tweedledee.

        It is, after all, The State that is allowing facebook, Amazon etc to take over…in fact the State is not only writing laws for the benefit of these swine, they are actually paying them through various tax shenanigans.

        Which to my mind makes the State the first target as they have been voted in to take care and protect the citizens not the Nationless cCorporations.

  3. Draco T Bastard 3
    20 March 2018 at 11:54 am

    New Zealand’s interests, as a small and indebted but wealthy and liberal and highly trade-dependent state, are in sustaining international orders that support trade and the free flow of capital to support our mortgages.

    How to fix that weakness:

    1. Stop being trade dependent.
    2. Realise that we don’t need foreign money to utilise our own resources.
    3. Stop being trade dependent.
    4. Build up better defensive capabilities in military, diplomatic and economic areas.
    5. Stop being trade dependent.

    A small nation once ruled the waves through it’s own capabilities and wasn’t dependent upon trade.

    but Chinese developers are now some of the strongest infrastructure and hotel and apartment developers we now have.

    But that is something that actually shouldn’t happen. We should be developing the skills and infrastructure here.

    My small hope is that more and more smaller countries see that the cost of being left out is greater in a cooperative rather than a divided world, so others may be willing to re-engage tomorrow.

    A cooperative world would be great – but that’s not what you’re talking about. You’re talking about dependence upon the good will of dictatorial powers.

    New Zealand is too small, too interconnected, too vulnerable in its trade and capital and human flows, for similar self-involvement.

    Which is a lie. We’re quite capable of supplying everything we need from our own resources.

    This is a major moment of international and ideological realignment for New Zealand, and it’s getting colder outside.

    It should be a recognition that we need to stop being so dependent upon other countries and trade.

    • JohnSelway 3.1
      20 March 2018 at 12:20 pm

      “A small nation once ruled the waves through it’s own capabilities and wasn’t dependent upon trade.”

      Which one?

      “Which is a lie. We’re quite capable of supplying everything we need from our own resources”

      We are lacking in many of the rare earth elements needed to just do everything ourselves Draco. Yes we could do some thing but not everything

      • Draco T Bastard 3.1.1
        20 March 2018 at 2:51 pm

        Which one?

        And here’s me thinking that that was fairly obvious.

        We are lacking in many of the rare earth elements needed to just do everything ourselves Draco.

        Actually, we’re not.
        https://www.gns.cri.nz/Home/Our-Science/Energy-Resources/Minerals/New-Zealands-minerals
        http://www.stuff.co.nz/science/5238554/Metal-riches-found-in-seabed-mud-of-Pacific

        • JohnSelway 3.1.1.1
          20 March 2018 at 2:58 pm

          Just putting aside the rare earth stuff for now because I tentatively (though not fully) agree with you…

          If you are talking about the UK you are completely wrong. During the height of the British Empire the UK ran large trade deficits with both the Baltic States and China. It was importing huge amounts of timber from the Baltic to furnish it’s ship-building industry as well as running a massive deficit with China with the Tea Trade (which it eventually made up by exporting opium causing the opium wars).
          You also neglect to factor in British owned The East India Trading Company which at it’s peak made up half the worlds trade – silks, spices, timber, exotic plants and fruits.

          You need to brush up on your history dude – the British Empire traded on a scale never before seen. Here’s a short article from the University of Washington (I did a paper on the British Empire a couple years back – trade was a massive and undeniably key factor in their dominance)
          https://history.libraries.wsu.edu/fall2014/2014/08/29/what-allowed-the-british-empire-expand-rapidly-during-the-1600s/

          • Keepcalmcarryon 3.1.1.1.1
            20 March 2018 at 4:58 pm

            If resource stripping equals trade then you are correct John Selway. The vassal states of empire had their riches stolen. Maybe it is a better comparison to modern trade than you realise.

            • JohnSelway 3.1.1.1.1.1
              20 March 2018 at 5:29 pm

              Well, whatever – it was still a massive trading empire and it was control of trade and trade routes that made it an empire. The compete opposite of what Draco said

              • Keepcalmcarryon …
                20 March 2018 at 6:01 pm

                Asset stripping and the slave trade, what heady times.

                • JohnSelway …
                  20 March 2018 at 6:15 pm

                  Hey I never said it was a great way of conquering the world 😉

                  • Keepcalmcarryon …
                    20 March 2018 at 6:23 pm

                    Trade isn’t really trade when you are taking someone’s shit and selling it including the people. It’s called theft amongst other things, hardly a shining example of capitalism or is it.

                    • JohnSelway …
                      20 March 2018 at 6:33 pm

                      Regardless – Great Britain was hugely dependent on trade and was the largest trading empire of it’s time. The morality of it isn’t the point of discussion.

                      I’d like to hear what Draco has to say – if anything

                    • Philg []
                      22 March 2018 at 9:09 pm

                      JohnSelway
                      Haha. Have you considered stand up? Seriously lol.

                    • Draco T Bastard …
                      20 March 2018 at 7:32 pm

                      At it’s height the British Empire had trade/theft. At it’s beginning it aggressively built up its economy and capabilities so that it could actually do that.

                      My point is that we’re no worse off than Britain was 600 or more years ago and have the capability of building our own strength – once we stop whinging that we’re too small to do anything.

                    • JohnSelway …
                      20 March 2018 at 7:35 pm

                      No, to get to it’s height it had to be a huge trading power.

                      Completely opposite of what you implied.

    • Stunned Mullet 3.2
      20 March 2018 at 2:51 pm

      😆 DTB living in his fantasy land yet again.

      • Draco T Bastard 3.2.1
        20 March 2018 at 2:52 pm

        The fantasy is what we have as it’s completely unsustainable.

        Really, people really do need to consider what living within your means actually means in the real world. Our means is the resources that exist sustainably within our land mass and the same applies to every other country.

        • Stunned Mullet 3.2.1.1
          20 March 2018 at 3:18 pm

          “Our means is the resources that exist sustainably within our land mass and the same applies to every other country.”

          Fair enough but that will come with a considerable increase in mortality and morbidity.

        • clare 3.2.1.2
          21 March 2018 at 1:19 pm

          not only living within our means but find a way to live without a continually expanding economy, measured by gdp.

  4. SpaceMonkey 4
    20 March 2018 at 11:56 am

    Perhaps it’s now time to seriously start considering policies and actions which make us less dependent on trade.

    • Ad 4.1
      20 March 2018 at 12:14 pm

      Not under any party combination now in parliament.
      So; no.

      • Hanswurst 4.1.1
        20 March 2018 at 7:25 pm

        Parties are made up of people, people can exert pressure; the only way to get people to exert pressure is to persuade them that something is worth changing. The only way to do that is to talk about ideas that are not part of current orthodoxy. You are generally among the first, in such cases, to say, “Nobody else is doing that now, so let’s not,” possibly prefaced by, “I like the idea, but…”. The word for someone who displays that outlook is “conservative”.

        • Ad 4.1.1.1
          21 March 2018 at 1:34 pm

          No. Good on you for continuing the tiresome game of meaningless labels.

          I like being in this country because it is clear about what it does well. The world appreciates that as well. We understand how we are evaluated and are valued by the world.

          That doesn’t make me a conservative.

          It makes me supportive of international trade as the core of our economy, as we have been for about 200 years.

  5. RedLogix 5
    20 March 2018 at 12:12 pm

    One of your very best OP’s ever Ad. It aligns with the idea of a sane, democratically accountable, rule of law, global order I’ve mentioned here a few times. All the big problems we face as a species are global in nature, and will only find a permanent solution under the embrace of institutions also global in scope.

    When the left abandoned the global sphere to pursue essentially tribal interests at a local level, it left a vacuum for big business to fill at it’s own leisure and convenience. As a consequence, just as in the first round of globalisation from 1845 through to 1914, the competing commercial interests of various financial empires have come to dominate the political engagement between nation states.

    No-one is talking about broadening the spheres of international co-operation, relinquishing the crazy that the nation state is the highest expression of collective sovereignty, and the old evil of runaway arms races haunts us once again.

    If the US, China and Russia … are going isolationist … it is up to the remaining smaller nations to actively pursue an independent solidarity, to reaffirm global rule of law, and re-commit to a sense of respect and human dignity across all peoples. It is the only sane path left open to us.

    • Ad 5.1
      20 March 2018 at 12:22 pm

      Cheers.

      It still astonishes me that we still have a few old halls and banners with great murals on them declaring: Workers of the world Unite.

      And yet so much of the left simply prefer to hunker down , forget the entire idea of solidarity, and look after their own in their own enclaves.

      The times New Zealand really flourishes is when we choose to organise to take on and be the best against the best of the world – and then surprise ourselves when we find ourselves a part of something far bigger than we imagined. Those are the should be moments where both New Zealand and the New Zealand left can be justifiably satisfied.

      Hope those Marxist activists have calmed down where you are. That was quite a video you posted a week or so back.

      • Cinny 5.1.1
        20 March 2018 at 12:42 pm

        Ad, off topic, but relevant… the picture you used….. the artist who put that together, Shepard Fairey, he’s a clever man, love his work. Obey Giant is an excellent documentary about how he uses visual art to promote thought, challenge advertisers, create political statements and question the powers that be.

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4BwKh1o0gak

      • RedLogix 5.1.2
        20 March 2018 at 12:43 pm

        Not really. This is a company video but I can attest it’s pretty accurate;

        https://youtu.be/PfKpFummJSU

        The problem is two-fold; one is no-one is quite sure what their real agenda is, and secondly the other unions on site hate them.

  6. esoteric pineapples 6
    20 March 2018 at 12:30 pm

    History will always view Obama’s legacy through the fact that Obama came after him. Not because Trump dismantled a lot of Obama’s limited achievements but because Obama’s lack of any true progressive action paved the way for the level of dissatisfaction that saw Trump elected.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jhsQlOP6WXg

    • tracey 6.1
      20 March 2018 at 1:22 pm

      You may have seen the article I link to below, already, but if not, it is a good read.

  7. Tony Veitch (not etc) 7
    20 March 2018 at 12:45 pm

    Ad, just a small pedantic point – Xi is the man’s surname. In China they reverse the oder, for some reason lost in the mist of Chinese history. So – Putin and Xi . . .

  8. tracey 8
    20 March 2018 at 1:18 pm

    Let us also remember that Obama and the Democrats are not Left Wing as is so often the comparison and that they are the equivalent of our Labour Party.

    He and they patently are/were not. They are more aligned ideologically to the national party and that came through in any number of Obama’s domestic and foreign policies.

    This is a decent article on how Obama failed to wind back Regeanism.

    https://www.vox.com/the-big-idea/2017/1/19/14323552/obama-legacy-reagan-clinton-conservative-liberal

    The times New Zealand really flourishes is when we choose to organise to take on and be the best against the best of the world – and then surprise ourselves when we find ourselves a part of something far bigger than we imagined.

    Agree and will add in when we take on the rest of the world to show what best looks like and lead the rest of the world because being small sometimes can be an advantage.

    Doing things the way they have always been done is our biggest enemy.

    • JohnSelway 8.1
      20 March 2018 at 1:20 pm

      I would consider the Democrats closer to the National Party than Labour as US politics are skewed firmly to the Right. He’ll, even Bernie Sanders would probably find a home in the National Party

      • tracey 8.1.1
        20 March 2018 at 1:25 pm

        I was thinking Bernie might be the only one I would align tot he Labour Party 😉

        There is a reason Obama and Key got on so well, and it wasn’t just cos of Golf.

        • JohnSelway 8.1.1.1
          20 March 2018 at 1:27 pm

          Either way, outside of Bernie, I would think the Nats are further to the left than anything in the US

          • tracey 8.1.1.1.1
            20 March 2018 at 1:34 pm

            Agree. I see the problem with our Labour Party is the same as with Democrats. When they finally get power, they bend over backward to not upset some of the establishment and businesses in the hopes it will get them further terms and change support. But it doesn’t. Those interests still vote for Republicans (National) and it explains why the Centre of our politics has moved so far to th eRight since 1984 because when the Right get in they don’t hesitate to erode workers rights and conditions quickly.

            If we now tailor all we do to make nice with UK, Australia, USA etc we do so knowing it must necessarily result in continued low wages, poor working conditions, degraded health and education systems/facilities because those 3 nations have also seen the centre moved to the Right. Australia is an exception in that they have strong Unions, which partly explains them having higher wages than we, UK or USA relatively speaking.

          • Draco T Bastard 8.1.1.1.2
            20 March 2018 at 6:41 pm

            And they’re still right-wing.

            • JohnSelway 8.1.1.1.2.1
              20 March 2018 at 7:09 pm

              That’s the worst f/ucking evidence of anything you have posted.

              There is so much wrong with that I don’t know where to begin. Surely you must know, right? But just for starters….

              1) Who took the test to decide where NZ Labour fell on the compass?
              2) How did they answer the questions?
              3) Did the person who completed know anything about NZ politics?
              4) Were they answering against Labour policy or were they answering against their own opinion?

              Dude, what you just posted is hopeless. It answers nothing and is evidence of nothing. Surely your threshold for evidential rigor is higher than this crap?

              This is like posting an anonymous Stuff poll where the question is “Do you think Labour has gone to the Right?” and quoting it as fact

    • Ad 8.2
      20 March 2018 at 4:17 pm

      This is just a ridiculous comparison.

      We get to feel so smug here in New Zealand.

      If you did a sliding scale of countries who are:

      – fully democratic,
      – have a free press guarded by statute,
      – have a strong and independent judiciary
      – have rulers who are held accountable daily by strong alternative wings of the public realm
      – have the full right to protest, and protesting really makes a positive difference
      – have regular changes of government to ensure a range of policy agendas can be compared
      – have an armed forces fully in command by civilian authority
      – have the ability to own property and have that right defended
      – actually implement human rights?

      Where do you think we compare to the USA?

      Where do you think the USA compares to China?

      Where do you think the USA compares to Russia?

      From there, it’s a pretty easy scale to calibrate these these things on a continuum. Plenty of rating agency NGOs have got it down to fine art if you want to check.

  9. Michelle 9
    20 March 2018 at 2:57 pm

    Must be all the kiwis over there aye Tracey we use to have strong unions to.
    I remember the days of the wharfies and when my father was a freezing worker at the Gear Meat in Petone. A good time when jobs were easy to come by and they fought hard for their rights even when they got locked out. But then labour was more true to their name now they don’t really truly represent the blue collar workers.

  10. WILD KATIPO 10
    20 March 2018 at 6:00 pm

    Didn’t Obama sign off on drone strikes every Tuesday ?

    Tuesday.

    The day of legitimized mass murder by aggressive imperialism implemented by President Obama on behalf of the globalists.

    Don’t recall President Trump ever doing that.

  11. remo 11
    20 March 2018 at 7:18 pm

    The CLINTON Foundation as global Charity Fraud.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0b0DFQFqxJ8&t=194s
    The CLINTON Foundation, as CIA global money laundering system.
    http://www.luminadiem.com/
    https://charlesortel.com/

    Maybe Barry Soetoro/Obama is coming down to ‘sort the narrative’ vis a vis the 13 million kiwi dollars johnny Key put into Clinton Foundation. Which is now outed by the forensic accountant’ Charles Ortel as a global charity fraud. FBI are investigating DOWNER after all, regarding these same matters. So maybe only a matter of time before they look over the ditch?
    Who was it that invited him anyway, and who is paying?

    • One Anonymous Bloke 11.1
      20 March 2018 at 7:52 pm

      Why didn’t Charity Watch pick up on this!?

      Why didn’t the IRS!?

      It only took one forensic accountant. Astonishing.

      • Colonial Viper 11.1.1
        20 March 2018 at 9:28 pm

        Charity Watch doesn’t know what it is looking for, and the IRS turned a blind eye to misfiled, late filed and unfiled returns.

  12. adam 12
    20 March 2018 at 11:51 pm

    The best thing about Obama was his anger translator.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HkAK9QRe4ds&ab_channel=C-SPAN

  13. savenz 13
    21 March 2018 at 12:34 pm

    The fact that Obama loves John Key so much speaks volumes about the type of man he truely is.

    If this is not a wake up call for the identity parade crowd, surely this is. It makes little difference a person’s colour, race, gender, age etc.

    You have to judge people on their actions (or inactions) and who they feel comfortable with and voluntary associate with and what they leave the world with.
    Is America better or worse off after Obama’s presidency and legacy?

    Is NZ better or worse off after Key’s leadership and legacy?

    Obama feels comfortable with John Key, a multimillionaire day trader turned politician who has made NZ a worse place in most world statistics such as poverty and corruption and sells off our citizenship to billionaires with links to Cambridge Analytics who believe in Trump and have speeches against democracy, like Thiel.

    Obama under his presidency did more drone attacks than any other politician.

    Both Key and Obama seem to believe that they are right and people are just collateral damage for their amazing visions of a global future.

    Both have divided their nations more and increased inequality while pretending the opposite.

    It also shows that political parties are not being careful enough in their choice of candidates. Obama is democrat but Key is National but they both seem to believe in the same ideas.

    Ideas via propaganda spread from sources like Cambridge Analytics have targeted influential men and women to make everyone believe the same vision even though it is not true.

    This then paves the way for more open division such as Trump. Trump only happened because the democrats pretended that globalism was perfect and working for all.

    Clearly it works out better if you can get around the world in private jets, than those without a job in Auckland or Detroit.

    Or you get a job as a NZ First and Labour MP, but then next day, decide what you campaigned on was wrong and global capitalism via free trade agreements is always a good thing even if it’s a “7 out of 10”

    Hey why bother making it a 10, be lazy and keep the 7 like Labour and NZ First, and cross your fingers you look after no 1, before the shit hits the fan.

    • newsense 13.1
      21 March 2018 at 1:30 pm

      Yep.

      Shane Jones attack surely reflects AirNZ running a publicity campaign for the National Party, with Key on the board.

      Oh the ‘Banker Bromance!’ Obama and Key and Malcolm Turnbull in one orgy of merchant banker broness.

      Losing respect for Obama over this. Typical BS from Key. Slimy little toad.

      I hope someone asks Key why he resigned. I hope they ask him about the homelessness and housing crisis. Does he think it is now a crisis? Ask Obama about the initiatives he would have used to tackle the housing crisis. Ask them if they think Donald Trump golfs too much.

  14. Melanie Scott 14
    22 March 2018 at 11:31 am

    It disturbs me that Obama has been ‘appropriated’ by Key and the National Party. And our Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern, has definitely been snubbed by the rich cotterie of National Party fat cats, surrounding Key and his ‘golf buddy’. No wonder she has better things to do than attend what amounts to a National Party fund raising dinner in Auckland tonight.

    As I write this my local beach is crawling with NZ Police, (so I can’t go there) while Key and Obama play golf. This is a region which is seriously under resourced when it comes to policing. Our local cops (only two of them) are on duty or on call 24/7 and have to go out alone at night to god knows what type of violent incidents which make up the vast majority of their call outs, especially at night. And the tax payer is paying for scores of cops to walk up and down our local beach Te Arai to keep NZ tax payers out of the way.

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