See what happens when you put a woman in charge?

Written By: mickysavage - Date published: 7:41 am, November 24th, 2021 - 120 comments
Categories: covid-19, debt / deficit, economy, health, uncategorized, unemployment - Tags:

You mean:

Covid death rate of 8 per million compared to Australia’s 76, Japan’s 146, Germany’s 1,191, the UK’s 2,146 and America’s 2,316?
Covid infection rate of 200 per hundred thousand compared to Australia’s 777, Japan’s 1,372, Germany’s 6,457, the US’s 14,327 and the UK’s 14,677?
A vaccination rate of 145 doses per hundred residents, behind the UK at 167, Japan at 156 and Australia at 150 but ahead of the US at 135 and Germany at 142?
Debt to GDP ratio of 28% compared to 41% for Australia, Germany 57%, the UK 86%, the US’s 107% and Japan’s 238%?
An unemployment rate of 3.4% compared to Australia’s 5.6%, the UK’s 4.4%, the US’s 4.4% although Japan’s rate is 2.9%?

It seems to me we should continue to have a woman in charge although not Judith.

Shades of whatever have the Romans ever done for us.

120 comments on “See what happens when you put a woman in charge? ”

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Powerman 1

24 November 2021 at 8:23 am

Allan Simmons, partner of Sue Grey, an organiser of this rally is heard to call our PM "a silly girl". what does that indicate?
- weka 1.1
  
  24 November 2021 at 11:28 am
  
  that's he's sexist and possibly misogynist.
Tiger Mountain 2

24 November 2021 at 8:30 am

Well even given the infrequent polls, it still seems that roughly 70% over 30% favour the Govt. handling of this awful COVID scenario.

Auckland business bleating again on RNZ this morning. Whinged about lockdowns, now lockdowns are being phased out Service Industry and petit bourgeoisie are whingeing about the non lock down regime!

I at least have some good news for some of these brats and poseurs–will be wearing a mask in public and avoiding cafes and crowds for some time to come. Have a nice day.
Anker 3

24 November 2021 at 8:30 am
- Power an it indicates misogyny is alive and well. Women are far more likely to receive abuse, threats and pornographic imagery than others. Sorry no reference there, but have read it many times. If you have evidence to the contrary far enough.. in the words of Germaine Greer, women don’t realise how much men hate them…..I know, I know Not all men……..I am happily married to one of the best, just to set the record straight
- Tiger Mountain 3.1
  
  24 November 2021 at 8:43 am
  
  Yes women do cop it, remember Judith Collins’ husband posting some pretty awful images of Jacinda Ardern on social media? He seemed to get off that pretty lightly. Have linked to a milder post of Wong-Tung’s here, others had “Porn Hub” associations.
  https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/424885/judith-collins-husband-shares-anti-ardern-facebook-posts
  
  Germaine was right too.
  - Anne 3.1.1
    
    24 November 2021 at 11:17 am
    
    Yes, women do cop it TM.
    
    During my 24 years in a Public Service agency, dominated by men at the time, here are my experiences:
    
    Initially refused permission to upgrade my qualifications on the grounds that I would marry and have babies and so it would be a waste of time.
    
    Continued to refuse permission to upgrade etc. on the grounds I would never be able to pass the exams. I eventually passed with pleasing results.
    
    Frequent attempts to harass and bully me for trumped up misdemeanours I never committed.
    
    Attempted to discredit my work by changing a vital calculation. Fell flat on their faces because they forgot it was my job to send a copy to Wellington H.0. which was correct. Interfered with my computer in an attempt to prove incompetency. I was ahead of them on that one so it failed.
    
    Arranged for colleagues to report any [supposed] misstep that could be used to dismiss me. None eventuated. I was told about that one by a former colleague – who had refused to cooperate – some time after it happened.
    
    The basis of their hostility was political. I was a member of the Labour Party and after the Lange government came to power they convinced themselves I was spying on them and reporting their activity back to my 'handlers' in the Party – whoever they were supposed to be. Hard to believe but it was true. I had dropped out of politics about two years previously but these idiots knew better.
    
    Shades of rabbit holes and false conspiracies. 🙄
- Patricia Bremner 3.2
  
  24 November 2021 at 4:37 pm
  
  Same here Anker. Him indoors snorted at some comments and called them "The trouser brigade"lol.
roblogic 4

24 November 2021 at 8:40 am

That's great, but Labour still gets a big fail for this

https://twitter.com/zbigdu/status/1463057058878529538?s=20
- Patricia Bremner 4.1
  
  24 November 2021 at 9:32 am
  
  2015? six years ago? Our son on Gold Coast has had their property go from S480 000 to $700 000 in one year. So Australia and several other countries assets have sharply revalued because of governments' cheap capital. This now changing back to more normal interest rates.
  - DukeEll 4.1.1
    
    24 November 2021 at 1:52 pm
    
    Imagine how bad it is now after 40% house price growth since 2018
    - Patricia Bremner 4.1.1.1
      
      24 November 2021 at 4:40 pm
      
      That was 46% this year DukeEll.
      - DukeEll 4.1.1.1.1
        
        24 November 2021 at 8:09 pm
        
        So in the midst of a housing affordability crises a government we elected to fix; average house prices went from $490k to $930k and the government did nothing extra?
        
        that’s crazy
Ross 5

24 November 2021 at 8:41 am

Covid death rate of 8 per million

The flu kills 500-600 people each year in NZ. I’m not sure that focusing on one virus while ignoring the other is good policy.

Of course any health policy’s effect on life expectancy and quality of life are factors which need to be taken into account. Our life expectancy has been somewhat lower than that of Australians. That seems set to continue.

https://researchcommons.waikato.ac.nz/handle/10289/14388

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/10834804/

https://www.scimex.org/newsfeed/life-expectancy-across-australia-and-nz-on-the-rise-as-latest-global-disease-estimates-revealed
- Clive Macann 5.1
  
  24 November 2021 at 9:14 am
  
  "I’m not sure that focusing on one virus while ignoring the other is good policy."
  
  Hmmm.
  
  I think you missed the point.
  
  The focus is on the POTENTIAL of the virus if let loose like the common cold.
  
  Compare apples with apples and you may just get it.
  
  ps. The FLU is NOT ignored, by the way.
- weka 5.2
  
  24 November 2021 at 11:36 am
  
  The flu kills 500-600 people each year in NZ. I’m not sure that focusing on one virus while ignoring the other is good policy.
  
  We have a vaccination programme for seasonal flu that targets at risk people. That's not ignoring. You're argument would hold more water if you put up some strategy ideas of lowering the flu rate.
  
  As far as I can tell the covid response has lessen spread of influenza. Haven't seen the figures on flu deaths in NZ in past year though, does anyone know?
  
  Of course any health policy’s effect on life expectancy and quality of life are factors which need to be taken into account. Our life expectancy has been somewhat lower than that of Australians. That seems set to continue.
  
  So? From your first link,
  
  Healthy life expectancy in Australia and New Zealand – the number of years a person can expect to live in good health – has increased steadily over the past three decades to 70 years in Australia and 69.4 in New Zealand, according to new research, but has not risen as much as overall life expectancy (82.9 and 81.8, respectively), indicating that people are living more years in poor health.
  
  my bold.
  - Ross 5.2.1
    
    24 November 2021 at 5:38 pm
    
    Weka
    
    We have a vaccine available for the flu, a vaccine that many health professionals including doctors and nurses don’t use. What we don’t have is those professionals losing their jobs over their reasonable decision not to be vaccinated. That is very different to the vaccination programme for Covid.
    
    Also the Government doesn’t borrow billions of dollars each flu season as such largesse would be unsustainable. We realise that people will die from the flu but the at-risk can get vaccinated if they wish. We don’t have restrictions imposed despite the possibility of harm including death.
    
    It’s been predicted that lockdowns will have a negative effect on life expectancy. As I explained, we already have a lower life expectancy than those living in Australia. I suspect that gap will widen given our Government’s short-sighted decision to lockdown, a policy failure that will be felt for years to come.
    - Ross 5.2.1.1
      
      24 November 2021 at 5:48 pm
      
      https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/13571516.2021.1976051?journalCode=cijb20
- Patricia Bremner 5.3
  
  24 November 2021 at 7:25 pm
  
  Ross the Aboriginal % of the Australian population is is between 1 and 3%, Their life expectancy is very low. 45% have died by 40, 70% have died by65.
  
  So Australia's figures are hardly influenced by that small %
  
  NZ has 16.5 % Maori.
observer 6

24 November 2021 at 9:00 am

Come on, if we had The Man in charge then NZ would be getting global coverage from the BBC and New York Times …

The good old days, when men were men and hair was nervous
Nic the NZer 7

24 November 2021 at 9:02 am

That guys an avid standard reader then?
GreenBus 8

24 November 2021 at 9:09 am

I have to listen to loud old pale stale males everyday at work in a large smoko room.

It annoys me, to have these blockheads spouting off about Jacinda Ardern and many other woman MP's just to get laughs from other blockheads. Pretty sickening really.

I could say something but misogynists are so widespread in the community that it is futile and would get me offside with so many. I can't be bothered with most men, fullstop. No wonder there is so much family violence in Aotearoa.

Having said that, there are a lot of situations that women are best kept away from, for their own safety. Toxic aggressive male company is very prevalent in work and social settings. Once again, the older males are the most common, and their misogynist beliefs are being passed down to their young. It needs to stop.

I call it the little willy syndrome. These people desperately need to grow up.
- Tiger Mountain 8.1
  
  24 November 2021 at 9:15 am
  
  Like a space time warp, some of these shit for brains seem to operate as if it is 1921 not 2021! Pathetic bravado in many cases. But silence is condoning…
  
  I am a man and no problem with that personally, but I disown fully half of the others. Can’t stand them in my personal space, much prefer women’s company and insight.
- swordfish 8.2
  
  24 November 2021 at 12:52 pm
  
  .
  
  old pale stale males
  
  The fucking horrendous violent intimidation & extreme anti-social behaviour over the past 4 years in my parents' street (& their wider neighbourhood) is 100% Underclass Male Māori … middle-aged & older Pakeha (both men & women, but particularly men) are the ones who have intervened to try & stop Male Māori violence against both women & men.
  
  No wonder there is so much family violence in Aotearoa.
  
  Once again, disproportionately Māori … around 5X the average [& to a somewhat lesser extent, Pasifika]
  
  If that cold hard reality doesn't dovetail with your Woke dogma … then tough shit.
  - weka 8.2.1
    
    24 November 2021 at 2:06 pm
    
    maybe the common denominator there is men.
    
    The patriarchal system fucks men over too, and allows everyone else to be fucked over, including your parents. Although I'd point to neoliberalism there, because wtaf that the various agencies can't sort that and other situations out, it's not rocket science.
    - RedLogix 8.2.1.1
      
      24 November 2021 at 2:10 pm
      
      maybe the common denominator there is men.
      
      Did it never occur to you that men evolved to be bigger, stronger and meaner for a reason?
      - Robert Guyton 8.2.1.1.1
        
        24 November 2021 at 2:18 pm
        
        Was the reason because they'd disconnected their heads from their hearts?
        
        RedLogix 8.2.1.1.1.1
        
        24 November 2021 at 2:23 pm
        
        What purpose would that serve? From an evolutionary pov that is.
        
        Robert Guyton …
        
        24 November 2021 at 2:25 pm
        
        None that's useful – us blokes panicked, lost faith in our women and bulked-up.
        
        Big mistake.
        
        Can be fixed though 🙂
        
        RedLogix …
        
        24 November 2021 at 2:29 pm
        
        How?
        
        Robert Guyton …
        
        24 November 2021 at 2:32 pm
        
        Perhaps, brothers, we could pay more attention to the guidance offered to us by…women?
        
        RedLogix …
        
        24 November 2021 at 2:42 pm
        
        In my experience most women despise men who lack agency. Besides what would women know about being male?
        
        And where does this fit in with the question I asked?
        
        Robert Guyton …
        
        24 November 2021 at 2:46 pm
        
        Agency? A person or thing through which power is exerted or an end is achieved ?
        
        RedLogix …
        
        24 November 2021 at 2:52 pm
        
        Something like that.
        
        Robert Guyton …
        
        24 November 2021 at 2:57 pm
        
        As to what women know about being male; gestation, birth, infancy, puberty…you know, those motherly-things.
        
        So, a considerable amount.
        
        What do males know about being male?
        
        RedLogix …
        
        24 November 2021 at 3:02 pm
        
        Interesting how you left fathers out of that.
        
        Robert Guyton …
        
        24 November 2021 at 3:04 pm
        
        Please go into bat for the fathers. Are we helping or hindering?
        
        RedLogix …
        
        24 November 2021 at 3:13 pm
        
        One of the single biggest predictors of being in prison, is not having a stable father in your life.
        
        But still you seem determined not to answer my original question – so I'll leave it here.
        
        Robert Guyton …
        
        24 November 2021 at 3:57 pm
        
        This question "Did it never occur to you that men evolved to be bigger, stronger and meaner for a reason?"
        
        No, it did not never occur to me.
        
        weka 8.2.1.1.1.2
        
        24 November 2021 at 3:50 pm
        
        Was the reason because they'd disconnected their heads from their hearts?
        
        This is a lovely train of thought. We can see that in hunter/gatherer societies men do/did have hearts connected to their heads. Think aroha, manaakitanga, kaitiakitanga concepts in Māori cultures.
        
        Our long evolution from apes to Homo sapiens to Homo destructicus included tribe/whānau as the primary unit of existence ie connection. How men become disconnected from that is worth exploring. Women remained more connected because having babies does that. It's not hard to draw a line from that to why women leaders have managed covid better (although I think the reasons are multiple and complex).
        
        Evolution in humans clearly is an interaction of the biological, environmental and social. Female humans evolving the menstrual cycle and menopause are obvious ones. Might be good if men worked out how those interactions work for them and fit into the picture, eh (I'm sure there are men that have figured this out).
        
        RedLogix …
        
        24 November 2021 at 4:30 pm
        
        Sexual dimorphism is extremely common across many species – which I think more or less rules out Robert's somewhat fanciful explanation.
        
        weka …
        
        24 November 2021 at 4:36 pm
        
        most other animals haven't evolved such large brains or had such difficulty managing that.
        
        Sexual dimorphism lends support to Robert's idea (other wise he would have said humans not men).
      - weka 8.2.1.1.2
        
        24 November 2021 at 3:43 pm
        
        Did it never occur to you that men evolved to be bigger, stronger and meaner for a reason?
        
        yes, obviously.
        
        Robert Guyton 8.2.1.1.2.1
        
        24 November 2021 at 3:57 pm
        
        ?
        
        Robert Guyton …
        
        24 November 2021 at 3:58 pm
        
        Yes, it never occurred to you to ask?
        
        weka …
        
        24 November 2021 at 4:33 pm
        
        no. I've thought about it (for a very long time) and yes there are obviously reasons why male and female humans evolved differently in relation to size and strength.
        
        for some strange reason Red has this idea that we were all biology and evolutionary denialists.
        
        Robert Guyton …
        
        24 November 2021 at 6:52 pm
        
        4 weka: https://www.facebook.com/shesmagicandmidnightlace/photos/a.1585050185113419/3072317476386675/
        
        weka …
        
        24 November 2021 at 8:47 pm
        
        😁 You got it 👍
        
        weka …
        
        24 November 2021 at 8:48 pm
        
        I mean, look at the progression of Le Guin's Earthsea series, and most of the books with dragons written by men. It's all there.
        
        RedLogix 8.2.1.1.2.2
        
        24 November 2021 at 4:32 pm
        
        And the answer you arrived at was?
        
        weka …
        
        24 November 2021 at 4:34 pm
        
        that there are evolutionary reasons why female and male humans evolved differently with regards to strength and size (that's why I said obviously, because it's obvious and I get why this is even a question).
        
        RedLogix …
        
        24 November 2021 at 4:48 pm
        
        So why would one sex evolve to occupy the role of being more aggressive, more exposed to physical risk and to be more disposable? What benefit does have for them?
        
        And why does all the research on this theme tell us that women sexually select for men who are taller, more physically powerful, more socially capable and self-confident – almost every single time? What benefit would this have for them?
        
        As you seem to have noticed recently – biology matters.
        
        Robert Guyton …
        
        24 November 2021 at 6:22 pm
        
        "So why would one sex evolve to occupy the role of being more aggressive, more exposed to physical risk and to be more disposable? What benefit does have for them?"
        
        Alternately, why would one sex evolve to occupy the role of being less aggressive, less exposed to physical risk and to be less disposable?
        
        That is: women.
        
        weka …
        
        24 November 2021 at 8:41 pm
        
        don't know what you are on about mate, why not just get to the point.
    - swordfish 8.2.1.2
      
      24 November 2021 at 7:13 pm
      
      .
      
      maybe the common denominator there is men.
      
      No, let's be clear … the common denominator in my parents neighbourhood … & it seems in most of the other cases that are beginning to finally see daylight around New Zealand … as hard as it may be for a self-interested socially-detached Woke to hear .. is Underclass Māori Men (in terms of violent intimidation) … & Underclass Māori of both sexes (in terms of anti-social behaviour … including both lower level intimidation & inflicting severe sleep deprivation throughout the night on neighbours).
      
      We're talking about a policy in which the most hardcore anti-socials are casually dumped on unsuspecting neighbourhoods. Many, but by no means all, are gang-affiliated.
      
      If we're going to head down this increasingly dangerous road of hyper-racial awareness demanded by CRT dogmatists … then I will certainly be naming the precise demographic the perpetrators of this violence belong to … Sunlight's always the best infectant.
      
      Meanwhile, as I've suggested, the middle-aged & older Pakeha of the neighbourhood (esp men) have intervened at certain points to try to end the on-going violence … including (to take just one example) trying to stop one these guys from forcing a woman into a car just outside my Parents' house … she was terrified & screaming … everyone (including my elderly parents) rushed out to help … the Māori guy was violently swearing his head off at everyone & threatening two of the (Pakeha male) neighbours with violence if they tried to intervene … "Fucking come here, you little fuck !!!" etc … courageously they persisted to help the woman … and it certainly takes real courage.
      
      Not putting up with the Woke Fantasy World anymore. Bears precisely zero resemblance to cold hard reality … just an Upper-Middle Vanity Project … where those on lower incomes are systematically scapegoated in the most brutal way (by the very people who disproportionately inherited the wealth from Colonisation) … essentially the antithesis of the genuine trad Left … Zero patience with the rank cowards, covert sadists & morally posturing hypocrites who casually throw others to the wolves for their own prestige enhancement among their little clique (and that includes the more dogmatic Woke minority on this site … though, I hasten to add, most people here are more than decent).
      - weka 8.2.1.2.1
        
        24 November 2021 at 8:46 pm
        
        I was pointing to the common denominator in your situation and Greenbus's situation. In both case there are men behaving badly, in quite different ways. I'm suggesting that how men are socialised is part of that.
        
        But also, obviously in your parents's neighbourhood, class is a major factor. You put any group of men into the lives those men are leading and many will turn out like that.
        
        I don't have a problem with you naming them as Māori underclass men, so long as Greenbus can point to the descriptors in their situation as well. It's what meaning we attach to that that determines the politics.
  - Anker 8.2.2
    
    24 November 2021 at 2:47 pm
    - Swordfish I completely feel for you and your parents and feel outraged by this situation. Bet if this was happening to a politician the rules would change by lunchtime. Boot out the anti social tenants and let someone else on the waiting list have a home.
    read that Kai Orangi were offering tenants in this situation a security guard and counselling ffs
    - swordfish 8.2.2.1
      
      24 November 2021 at 8:39 pm
      
      Cheers, Anker … appreciate the support.
  - GreenBus 8.2.3
    
    24 November 2021 at 5:12 pm
    
    Read between the lines mate. Some things are best left unspoken. As for old whities, many many are terrible racists and misogynists and if you don't know that then you need to get out more.
    - RedLogix 8.2.3.1
      
      24 November 2021 at 5:18 pm
      
      Maybe you need to keep better company rather than making generic claims about people based on their skin colour.
      - GreenBus 8.2.3.1.1
        
        24 November 2021 at 8:49 pm
        
        All of the people I'm talking about are in management positions from bottom to top. They are the real scum of society. I hang out with battlers, shun most of the men that are being dicks and associate with the young people – who don't display this dimwit behaviour.
Patricia Bremner 9

24 November 2021 at 9:24 am

As they say Micky, "So far so good"

Many friends have said "We have to learn to live with it." At first I, like many others resisted that idea, and would come back with "Die with it more like".

After reading listening and discussing the fact that Delta is not able to be eradicated, I like many now see vaccination plus masks social distancing and good hand washing practice as necessary methods of minimising the transmission of this now endemic disease.

We have completely changed how we do certain things. We follow the numbers every day flinching when they are over 200. We no longer "pop" to see friends, we now call and set times for visits. Shopping has changed with a great deal of online click and collect or delivery to the door by masked staff. After reading up on effective hand cleaning we went back to our cakes of soap. We have always aired our home, but we are much more aware of access to and use of fresh air when visitors come, now the gardens is full of roses and the weather more settled.

We have Auckland family we have not seen for twelve months since we lunched on the Lakeland Queen for my 79th birthday, and sadly that tourist business has folded. Our eldest son was over for a day visit as soon as their lockdown ended, as he like us was at home almost full time.

I don't know if the management of these challenges were improved by the current PM, but all countries led by women appeared to do well initially, though Germany looks very scary now. Our PM manages crises well rising to all the challenges of covid.

Let's use the guides to the new system with sensitivity, and stay safe in a covid world.
Sabine 10

24 November 2021 at 9:59 am

You might not want to celebrate the day before night has fallen.

Maybe you want to wait until say, December 29th before writing such celebratory nonsense in regards to Covid – which would be about three weeks after Freedom Day.
- Patricia Bremner 10.1
  
  24 November 2021 at 12:57 pm
  
  Show where I was "celebrating covid" ??? Or are you speaking to Micky???
- Enough is Enough 10.2
  
  24 November 2021 at 1:53 pm
  
  Indeed.
  
  While I don't think we will ever get to the unbelievable death rates of the UK and the US, in many ways we are only just about to start living the way they have been since March 2020. Living with the virus becomes our reality on Freedom Day and as a consequence of that we will see deaths on an almost daily basis from Christmas onwards.
  
  Those who keep back slapping our current rates remind me of George Bush and his infamous Mission Accomplished speech on the USS Abraham Lincoln. Thankfully our government isn't really like that, but some of its cheerleaders certainly are.
- weka 10.3
  
  24 November 2021 at 2:02 pm
  
  The test isn't whether we end up in a mess, but whether we end up in as bad a mess as other countries whose leaders have taken a less compassion stance.
  
  Labour were always going to have to go back to being economics focused at some point. The question here is how much the compassion and feminism will mitigate that.
  - DukeEll 10.3.1
    
    24 November 2021 at 4:55 pm
    
    so being a mess as a country is acceptable if the responses of other countries led to more of a mess? the cult of managerialism is strong in that answer.
    
    What you've said, as I read it, is akin to "there is no point doing anything about climate change in NZ as india and china still use coal"
    
    Why can't we just be good? or great? instead of the relavatism of "better" relying on the worsening of our fellow countries for us to achieve anything
    - weka 10.3.1.1
      
      24 November 2021 at 8:40 pm
      
      Don't look at me, I don't vote the neolibs in.
      
      Also, you missed my point. Sabine is pointing to the problem of letting covid out into the rest of NZ. I'm saying this is Labour, it was inevitable given delta, and the measuring stick isn't whether it's bad or not (people are doing to die, people are going to be disabled), it's whether it's a shitshow or whether we are able to mitigate the worst of it.
      
      Kind of like climate change. We missed the boat on EVs saving the day, by some decades. There are still many critical things we need to do, but let's not pretend we're going to prevent catastrophe. What's on the table now is how much we can save and how much damage we can limit.
Julian Richards 11

24 November 2021 at 10:37 am

The last line speaks volumes to the article: "It seems to me we should continue to have a woman in charge although not Judith".

Just not any woman? Because its NOT JUST ABOUT male vs female. Come on humans, get over this!
- observer 11.1
  
  24 November 2021 at 10:42 am
  
  Lighten up, it's just mocking the misogynist protest signs (see image in OP).
  - Julian Richards 11.1.1
    
    24 November 2021 at 11:15 am
    
    Simply removed the veil.
    
    If we want to achieve some further maturity, acceptance, forgiveness, communication etc etc in NZ society (needed) discussions and debates, little digs like that (as seen in our Parliament?) need to be removed, it only pulls us all down to further immaturity. When it seems we actually need and want more maturity in NZ. let’s raise the level, just a little at a time at least
- RedLogix 11.2
  
  24 November 2021 at 10:48 am
  
  The OP is not about women – it's about signaling the original sin of "pale, male, stales."
  - observer 11.2.1
    
    24 November 2021 at 10:54 am
    
    It's really not.
    
    Some of us pale, male, stales manage to criticise a politician for their policies. I would happily mock Collins any day of the week, and yet somehow manage not to make it about her gender. It's not hard, is it?
    - RedLogix 11.2.1.1
      
      24 November 2021 at 11:02 am
      
      I'd wager that to a Collins supporter your mockery of her would look just like 'misogyny'.
      
      But then like 'racism' it's become one of those emotionally laden words that's been so twisted and stretched out of shape to have become virtually useless in any meaningful discussion.
      - observer 11.2.1.1.1
        
        24 November 2021 at 11:13 am
        
        Rubbish.
        
        It's a straightforward test. "Ardern = communist" is wrong, in my subjective opinion. "Ardern = pretty little communist" is gendered, in objective fact.
        
        But you know this already, unless you carefully avert your eyes from all coverage of the anti-Ardern protests.
        
        RedLogix 11.2.1.1.1.1
        
        24 November 2021 at 11:16 am
        
        For the political tribalist everything is very straightforward.
        
        observer …
        
        24 November 2021 at 11:19 am
        
        You're not engaging with anything here, just shoehorning in preconceived lines.
        
        Is it possible to criticise Collins without misogyny, yes or no?
        
        Have you seen plenty of misogyny on the anti-Ardern signs, yes or no?
        
        weka …
        
        24 November 2021 at 1:59 pm
        
        Collins is one of the women allowed into the boys' club because she agrees to play the game the way that the boys want it*. Probably agrees with that too. It's no uncommon for this to happen, think Shipley, Richardson, Thatcher. Or Clark for that matter. The women who want to change that system have tended to get out. Ardern has stayed and make some positive changes (I think the strong Māori caucus is part of this too).
        
        Women as a class are better leaders at this time on covid response, for a range of reasons. This doesn't mean all women are good leaders, it just means that as a group there is something that women are doing that is different from men. And it also means that some women would be just as bad as say Trump or Boris Johnson.
        
        https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/aug/18/female-led-countries-handled-coronavirus-better-study-jacinda-ardern-angela-merkel
        
        *for people having a reaction to that, understand that the boys club refers to the patriarchy, a system based on privileging men (and wealth, Caucasian ethnicity, male, fit body norms, etc). It doesn't mean that men are bad.
      - Julian Richards 11.2.1.1.2
        
        24 November 2021 at 11:18 am
        
        The amen beyond the prayer.
- weka 11.3
  
  24 November 2021 at 2:03 pm
  
  Just not any woman? Because its NOT JUST ABOUT male vs female. Come on humans, get over this!
  
  Actually, women and men do tend to organise things differently.
  
  https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/aug/18/female-led-countries-handled-coronavirus-better-study-jacinda-ardern-angela-merkel
observer 12

24 November 2021 at 11:17 am

The real giveaway here is 'thinking time'. Not that much thinking goes on.

In conversation, somebody might mutter "stupid little woman" or some such, because in real time we all say things instantly and then regret them.

But these anti-Ardern signs are prepared. They have thought "What shall I write?" and then they have decided. And there's a little light bulb in our heads that should say "Good idea … no, maybe not." So we don't add swastikas and other idiocy because the light bulb suggests it's not a good idea. Not these guys.

What's more, after they've taken the time and trouble to make the sign about the "mad cow" or "horse face" or whatever, they've met up with their friends and their little light bulbs aren't working either. They haven't had pushback from fellow protesters saying "Do you really want that message? Isn't this about water or utes?" etc. After all, you can only hold up one placard at a time.

Think about the group mentality that says misogyny is not only acceptable, it's clever. With all of that thinking time … they still go ahead and make it their preferred message. Those are people (men) with major issues.
Tricledrown 13

24 November 2021 at 11:50 am

Those people making sexist hateful vicious attacks are envious of Arderns success.They can't beat her at virtually any level in honest debates.So are resorting to lowdown Dirty tactics/politics.
woodart 14

24 November 2021 at 12:46 pm

when was the last time we had a man in charge? I would suggest ,maybe mike moore, geoffrey palmer . key was NOT in charge, who has he ALWAYS worked for???.bolger was led by ruthless, then winston, then whatshername. maybe you could argue that the last time we had a man in charge was muldoon, and what a phuckup that was-is.
mac1 15

24 November 2021 at 1:12 pm

Our woman in charge did a good job in Parliament question time yesterday over their woman in charge. The PM was in charge of information and the issues as raised.

The best bit for me came when having just asked a question about what restrictions would take place at what level, the Leader of the Opposition asked a question about a particular instance,

Ardern cheerfully pointed out that the question showed that Collins already had a good understanding of the covid restrictions and her previous question was somewhat unnecessary.

For those questioning Ardern's leadership she showed in these exchanges a grasp of detail and a quick mind and wit, a command presence and a passion, logical thinking and clear expression.

On the other hand, Collins was asked to ask a question again when she could not control her feelings- "what the hell" was the phrase used.

Ardern very clearly told Cameron from ACT who asked why she did not talk to Groundswell that she spoke to a series of farmer and rural groups and listed them.

She also listed for Collins the good results we have had in NZ in a series of areas in these Covid times. It was very reminiscent of what the Romans have done for us-oiur version has low death rates, high business resilience, low unemployment, low infection rates, low hospitalisation rates.
Anker 16

24 November 2021 at 1:40 pm
- I think Ardern is a great leader. Her response to Chch massacre and 1st round of covid outstanding.
- re sacking people….David Clark, she rightly said she couldn’t sack in a pandemic, but did when the situation was less critical and second misdemeanour. Lees-Galloway gone by lunchtime as minister for work place relations. In interviews and question time mostly Ardern is quick witted and we’ll informed. She has seemed tired and under the weather this year, understandable for all she has had to deal with……….I think she is great, even though I have turned away from Labour and will not be voting for them next time
- I think the guys who hold up these sexist signs, make themselves look so ridiculous that I can’t really take seriously. It is the men who threaten women, eg the likes of JK Rowling with rape and death threats that are dangerous and misogynistic
- Patricia Bremner 16.1
  
  24 November 2021 at 2:45 pm
  
  Anker going Green?
- RedLogix 16.2
  
  24 November 2021 at 3:20 pm
  - It is the men who threaten women, eg the likes of JK Rowling with rape and death threats that are dangerous and misogynistic
  They definitely are not women – and as far as I'm concerned they aren't men either.
Ad 17

24 November 2021 at 2:57 pm

Looks more like Robertson is in charge and Ardern communicates.

It's how she got there.
- Anker 17.1
  
  24 November 2021 at 3:08 pm
  
  Oh Ad…….that's a big claim. What's your evidence?
  
  Because if you don't have any, you do realize that this makes you look a tiny bit sexist?
  - Ad 17.1.1
    
    24 November 2021 at 4:19 pm
    
    How tiresome.
    
    Ardern appeared to come out of nowhere in 2017. But her origin sits within the tight circle of Hipkins, King, and Robertson. King in particular worked caucus very hard to ensure that the transition from King to Ardern in the Deputy position was totally unanimous.
    
    That's the positioning, ready for Shearer and then Little to fall.
    
    That doesn't deny Ardern her own agency. The construction of the digital infrastructure with the "Burns Unit" was critical within the public campaign. Nor does it deny her popularity.
    
    But the positioning had been occurring for years beforehand, and Robertson was not only key then, he now holds all the budget power.
    
    And in turn is perfectly positioned himself.
    - Koff 17.1.1.1
      
      24 November 2021 at 5:15 pm
      
      Robertson is an intelligent, centrist, neoliberal with zero personality. Ardern is an intelligent, centrist, neoliberal with recognised empathetic personality. If JA decides to leave, or is pushed and Robertson takes over, it's hard to see any glimmer of anything mildly progressive on the agenda and even a depressed and chaotic oppositon looking well placed to do well in the next NZ GE.
      - Ad 17.1.1.1.1
        
        24 November 2021 at 5:23 pm
        
        Each to their own.
        
        I prefer Robertson since he is by a long way the most interventionist Minister of Finance we've had since Muldoon.
        
        Labour's progressive agenda is primarily in the hands of this one Minister: all those big ticket items like Minimum Wage, Living Wage, $55b wage guarantee that kept unemployment under 4%, PGF, industry loans, sectoral wage increases, choking the banks, joining up ACC NZSuper and Govt Super funds together, increasing welfare, increasing tax on the very rich – that's on Robertson like no other.
    - Anker 17.1.1.2
      
      24 November 2021 at 5:28 pm
      
      I am sure it is very tiresome for you Ad to be challenged.
      - Ad 17.1.1.2.1
        
        24 November 2021 at 6:03 pm
        
        I'll let you know.
- Patricia Bremner 17.2
  
  24 November 2021 at 5:22 pm
  
  No, that is not accurate Ad. "That's how she got there'.
  
  Robertson chose her as his running mate in the Labour Party Election of a new Leader. Andrew Little won that and worked with the advice of Annette King, who suggested they train up Ardern as his deputy as Annette was retiring. When Andrew Little realised he lacked that special spark of "cut through" he nominated Jacinda Ardern to take the Party into the election, believing they would lose less seats that way. She was nominated by Little and was elected unanimously 6 weeks out from the election.
  
  Ardern brought sparkle and wit to the campaign, and showed NZ a different political style. Her first test were the negotiations with Winston Peters. Bill English was a staid person and Winston accepted Jacinda Ardern as the PM, Winston as Deputy and Grant Robertson as Treasurer plus Jacinda gave Andrew Little a front row role and trust. He swallowed his pride and has served NZ well ever since as she knew he would.
  
  She led the Labour Party to an historic second term win in an MMP Election and replaced a losing Winston with Grant Robertson as her Deputy. She has had loyalty from the 6th Labour Government consisting of 65 members. Real men are not threatened by her qualities.
  - Ad 17.2.1
    
    24 November 2021 at 5:28 pm
    
    You've only added minor colouring on my description of her reliance on Robertson and King from the outset.
    
    There's plenty of books and articles describing the same thing in more detail.
    - Patricia Bremner 17.2.1.1
      
      24 November 2021 at 6:08 pm
      
      Reliance? Ability to work with others?
Anker 18

24 November 2021 at 3:01 pm
- Afraid not Patricia. Not going green. Huge family connection to the Labour Party, always voted Labour. Possibly won’t vote next year.
- i have lost my respect for the party due to allowing themselves to be captured by gender ideology, the Greens more so. As well as this, both parties have attempted to bring in changes to laws by stealth. No mention of self ID in Labours election manifesto nor as a party member was I ever surveyed about it. I watched many submissions for SOP 59 and the Conversion Practices Bill and felt disgusted by the labour MPs and Dr E Kerekere’s behaviour.
- Greens are even more ideologically driven and put ideology above evidence.
- I do admire Labours Covid strategy and I think they have sincerely meant to address housing, poverty etc, but they haven’t achieved much there.
I can’t vote for a party who I believe are throwing women and girls under a bus. Not to mention all children who have been taught it is possible to change your sex and had medical transitioning enabled by the adults in their lives
- Patricia Bremner 18.1
  
  24 November 2021 at 5:37 pm
  
  Anker, I am sorry that has caused you to consider cutting ties. All the best.
- Brigid 18.2
  
  24 November 2021 at 6:12 pm
  
  Have you looked into Social Credit?
  
  They will probably never get in but their policies are all good. They've been around a long long time
theotherpat 19

24 November 2021 at 3:12 pm

i think its too early for congratulations….when Auckland/nth island hits the country i expect to see a surge in cases…just how high/how bad that will get is the question and what will more coming waves bring us? we have fared well through good govt and team play mostly and one can hope that we will be spared the mayhem that occurred overseas with opening up….the best of luck to us all.
- Maurice 19.1
  
  24 November 2021 at 4:56 pm
  
  Indeed – all beginning to sound like deliberate infection of the South for political gain in the North?
Koff 20

24 November 2021 at 4:19 pm

Seems like Morgan Godfery (writing* an opinion piece in the Guardian) agrees with you, Micky. He's not usually that complimentary. I'm in Queensland, where the Premier is a woman. The Covid response (unlike JA the only crisis that Annastacia Palaszczuk has had to deal with) has been exemplary so far, with only 7 deaths, and each small Delta outbreak comeptently squashed. No real male/female pattern here, though. Gladys Berejiklian pursued a dangerous strategy in NSW, while Dan Andrews in Victoria did his best with Delta. All other states and territories have done a relatively good job – as good as Queensland all with male Premiers/First Ministers, Labor and Tory. Maybe the women worldwide who do make it to the top job are all by necessity exemplary, but not necessarily empathetic (Thatcher?)

* https://www.theguardian.com/world/commentisfree/2021/nov/24/in-a-crisis-you-want-jacinda-ardern-thats-why-her-poll-numbers-will-remain-robust
- Ad 20.1
  
  24 November 2021 at 4:45 pm
  
  Labour and Ardern will probably get their third term just on crisis management.
  
  At some point the country will realise we need a wee bit more than crisis management.
  - Patricia Bremner 20.1.1
    
    24 November 2021 at 6:07 pm
    
    Crisis is where we are at!
    
    Climate change is a rolling crisis that will require real time actions and long term plans.
    
    Covid also will be a rolling crisis in the same manner, affecting all humanity.
    
    We will seldom be free of this pressure now, as weather bombs rivers in the sky cyclones and easterly swells bring problems compounded with supply shortages caused by covid waves in our trading partners. Insurrection will be common, and as we have seen strange beliefs common. Security will be precious.
    
    Insurance underwriters will have nightmares, policy planners need to be flexible and ready to meet the challenge of changing conditions.
    
    Humans have caused such damage that we are all on runaway systems which could fail at any time. NZ has never faced food security challenges, how lucky are we, but with all these problems shopping online from overseas will get more difficult, and many treats may not be available.
    
    Think that I am exaggerating? The second hand car market has been affected, building and construction also. Risk and reward behaviours will impact, as people live in denial. Jacinda Ardern has been honed by all these crises.
- RedLogix 20.2
  
  24 November 2021 at 5:30 pm
  
  Good comment. I should have gotten to saying something similar myself – this narrative of man bad, women good skates on some pretty thin ice.
DS 21

24 November 2021 at 5:48 pm

Don't worry. Chris Hipkins has just blown a massive hole in the first two points.
Stuart Munro 22

24 November 2021 at 6:02 pm

Hmm – if only it were that simple. I remember when Shipley was in charge – they were not halcyon days, and were Judith Collins in power I suspect the qualities of gynocracy might garner a much less sympathetic hearing.

It might be something to do with being a mature and decent human being – qualities that it seems parliament does not reliably cultivate. Then again our whole society has pretty much dropped the ball on that.
- pat 22.1
  
  24 November 2021 at 6:14 pm
  
  What?…logic!…are you lost?
  - Stuart Munro 22.1.1
    
    24 November 2021 at 7:00 pm
    
    Against all odds, I still cherish the ideal of an enlightened society. It doesn't seem particularly realistic, nor does there seem to be much support for one. Nevertheless, I persist, because, although pessimists are always right, optimists have more fun.
    - pat 22.1.1.1
      
      24 November 2021 at 7:07 pm
      
      lol…or believe they do
      - Stuart Munro 22.1.1.1.1
        
        24 November 2021 at 7:25 pm
        
        Every day you're still alive is a good day, every meal – a feast, every paycheck – a fortune.
        
        And every asshole is just another obstacle to level up overcoming.
        
        Puckish Rogue 22.1.1.1.1.1
        
        24 November 2021 at 7:30 pm
        
        A great sci-fi/horror/action movie with both a strong feminist and family values message
        
        Stuart Munro …
        
        24 November 2021 at 8:32 pm
        
        Every formation – a parade.
        
        One of the rare instances where Hollywood did a bit of research on military culture – worked for Avatar too, though not as well.
        
        Puckish Rogue …
        
        24 November 2021 at 8:59 pm
        
        I really don't get how you go from Aliens to Avatar…I thought Alita was a decent little movie, well worth a sequel I'd have thought
        
        Stuart Munro …
        
        24 November 2021 at 9:04 pm
        
        Marines PR – Aliens & Avatar had a bunch of them and their sassy banter.
        
        Fear not, Alita is returning. Let's hope they do not make of it what the fans are saying about Cowboy Bebop.
        
        Puckish Rogue …
        
        24 November 2021 at 9:14 pm
        
        Not going to watch it, I'll stick with the original
        
        In Vino 22.1.1.1.1.2
        
        24 November 2021 at 9:52 pm
Puckish Rogue 23

24 November 2021 at 7:24 pm

We need more women: https://imgur.com/gallery/P0jYWyt
Ad 24

25 November 2021 at 9:32 am

Sweden's first female PM resigns hours after getting the job.

Sweden's first female PM resigns, hours after getting the job | Stuff.co.nz

What happens when you put a women in charge who can't count.
- RedLogix 24.1
  
  25 November 2021 at 9:55 am
  
  Yup . Our blessed Mickey's luck ran out with his timing on this one.