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Something Smells, Honest John

Written By: - Date published: 9:10 am, November 18th, 2015 - 53 comments
Categories: Abuse of power, accountability, journalism, making shit up, uncategorized, you couldn't make this shit up - Tags:

Honest John‘s been at it again

Hat/tip Sabine

“A report prepared for Justice Minister Amy Adams earlier this year noted there was no reliable system of monitoring deported offenders or obtaining reliable information on their risk before they returned.

If police were informed an offender was being deported they would meet them upon arrival at the airport and request a DNA sample and fingerprints, but that was voluntary.

This week Adams said officials had worked at “some pace” in recent months to get better systems in place to protect the public.

“I recognise [the system] at the moment this is not nearly robust enough for those people deported back to New Zealand and I want to change that.”

Last month, Adams announced the creation of a new register that would list people who had been, or were about to be, sent back to New Zealand after being convicted of a crime.

Article referred to above is here.

“Earlier this year” (which is prior to August 2015 – the date of the article) Adams received a report about not being able to identify the people and crimes they committed prior to their coming to NZ

Staff  had been working at “some pace” in the months prior to August 2015 to get systems in place.

However according to Ms Adams she only found out from the Aussies the hours AFTER Key’s nasty tirade (in November 2015) the makeup of the people coming from Chrismas Island, even though Kelvin Davis had been highlighting them for weeks

“What we haven’t known until now one or two hours is exactly what the specific make-up was on Christmas Island.

“What the Prime Minister and I have referred to, to date, has been the category of offenders we are talking about in the wider context – contains some very, very serious offenders.”

Remember the Register she talked about above? The Register that would identify those who are to be deported before they come here? Up and running by 15 July 2015

A register of deported offenders is now up and running for use by New Zealand government agencies. It lists people who have been, or are about to be, sent back to New Zealand after being convicted of a crime, serving a prison term or having their visa cancelled on character grounds.

“The register will provide New Zealand authorities with greater oversight of who exactly is arriving here and when,” says Ms Adams.

The new register builds on current efforts to manage deported offenders, which see Police provide their districts with information received from other countries. This ensures that local police have all the relevant information available about individuals who may settle in their district.


So, that rather begs the question Ms Adams, what were you doing between receiving the report in early 2015, working at some pace before August 2015, but not able to get the info from the Aussies on the types of criminals headed this way until AFTER Mr Key went on a nasty tirade about rapists, murderers and child molesterers (sic)?

You were setting up a Register to udentify people and their crimes prior to being deported to NZ. But you didn’t tell Honest John? He didn’t read/hear about it in the media?

Oh did I mention John Key’s meeting with Abbott back in February 2015? How remiss of me

Australian Prime Minister Tony Abbott and Prime Minister John Key agreed at a meeting today agencies from both countries would develop a memorandum of understanding to share more information about trans-Tasman deportations so checks and risk management procedures could be put in place.

“It is in both countries best interest to manage deportations in such a way that minimises the risk posed to both countries and ensures appropriate steps are taken to flag any high-risk individuals,” Key said.

I smell BS

53 comments on “Something Smells, Honest John ”

  1. Lanthanide 1

    This is all a bit strange.

    Do you actually have evidence that the people on Christmas Island were included on this register that was set up in July, and that therefore Adams/Key lied about their knowledge?

    So far all you’ve said is that there is a register set up to record people. And there are some people who are expected to be returned to NZ at some indeterminate point in the future.

    Yes, they *should* be on the register, but clearly that relies on co-operation from other governments. Australia has been notoriously uncooperative when dealing with the Christmas Island detainees (this morning Amy Adams said a plane is due to arrive tomorrow, but they don’t know where it will land, or exactly how many people will be on it).

    Really I see this as highlighting the government’s case: that Australia simply aren’t telling them anything, but they’ve done everything they can do in setting up appropriate processes to handle the situation, if only the Australian government would stand by their word and do what their PM promised.

    • tracey 1.1

      Have you got any evidence that Australia hasn’t told them about the people on Christmas Island?

      Did I say that I had definitive proof of anything Lanth or did I say I smell Bullshit?

      What I am saying is that in February Key trumpetted a memorandum to get info to NZ of who and what former crime was coming to protect NZers, then a register was made and went live detailing information before folks come, then Kelvin Davis goes to town on problems at Christmas Island, then Key says rapists and molesterers (sic) are coming and he wants to protect us from them (despite having put that in place in July and sign posted it in February).

      You point to Ms Adams word and apparently, Mr Key’s complete inpotence in relation to other leaders.

      • You_Fool 1.1.1

        The other possibility is that the register has everyone on it, their crimes and expected date of deportation, but not where they are being held which would mean Key and Adams didn’t lie exactly, as they were (probably) talking about knowing the Christmas Island detainees only.

        Doesn’t stop the tirade being a bit over the top, nor does it show the government in a good light as either their assurances and registers were basically meaningless, either through incompetence and because the Aussies don’t respect them and as such ignore them

      • Trey 1.1.2

        If it looks and smells like bullshit there is probably no point tasting it and this government gets shittier everyday

    • Sabine 1.2

      Not sure if you read the article. A quick cut and paste job should to facilitate:

      Quote from the Article, and I like especially the last line, NZ has deported 14 people the other way. Not sure what that says, but I am sure you will tell us that National is acting in good faith and does not know and does not know how to ask Australia about such things, cause Rubgy?

      “Up to a 1000 criminals – including killers, sex offenders, drug dealers and outlaw bikies – will be dumped on New Zealand’s doorstep in the next five years.

      The Government is scrambling to keep New Zealanders safe after recent law changes in Australia opened the way for the deportation of Kiwis who have committed crimes across the ditch.

      Many of the criminals have tenuous links to New Zealand after living in Australia for years.

      Convicted killer Michael Heron was deported from Australia late last year and is living in Christchurch.
      Taken From Facebook
      Convicted killer Michael Heron was deported from Australia late last year and is living in Christchurch.

      Among those expected to be deported are dozens of gang members, sparking concerns new outlaw motorcycle clubs could be established here alongside international rivals including the Bandidos and the Rebels.

      The Government says it is working quickly to improve trans-Tasman information sharing. New legislation is being drafted that will allow for supervision of criminals who are sent home.

      Under changes to the Australian Migration Act in December, Australian officials have the power to cancel the visas of suspected or convicted criminals, particularly those sentenced to more 12 months’ jail or more, or found guilty of sex offences.

      According to police, 119 people have been deported to New Zealand from Australia so far this year – more than four times the number sent home for the same period 12 months earlier.

      In the four years to June 30, New Zealand sent 14 people in the other direction.”
      Heck the place was to be closed according to this.


      Mentioning of Kiwis being locked up of shore in Christmas Island
      news about ‘bikies’ held on Christams Island


      Lawyers in Sidney not happy about stuff

      https://rnztalk.nz/t/detaining-kiwis-in-australia-displays-contempt/1697 – September 2015

      so really I can’t see how the Australian Government would not inform the NZ Government about what it was doing.
      I can see the current government not giving a shit, as clearly it does not give a shit about so many Kiwis.
      But there is no way they did not know. They did know and they got found out, and that is why they are lashing out on those that dare to raise their craven attitude towards their fellow country man. And like it or not, unless we go back to the dark ages and declare any citizens convicted of a crime after they have served their sentence an outlaw, they are our fellow country men. And some will re-offend, and others will not.

    • Daniel Cale 1.4

      The reason this article has been published is to take the heat out of Annette King’s stuff up in Parliament yesterday.

      • Tracey 1.4.1


        • Daniel Cale

          No, the MSM won’t cover it, it’s a hit on Labour. King and her research people misinterpreted information they received under an OIA, and caused her to make claims in Parliament that were false. She’s in line for a charge of misleading Parliament, hence this hit article about something someone might have said about something that might have happened.

          [lprent: Read the about – the authors write their own individual opinions under their own handle. Which is why you frequently find them disagreeing with each other and why we get stick from politicians of all persuasions getting wound up about what we write.

          If you want to make conspiracy theories about authors motivations, then I suggest you find one of the paranoid conspiracy nutter sites. Whaleoil for instance. ]

          • tracey

            To be clear, you are saying I wrote this post to create a smokescreen for Annette King?

            • Daniel Cale

              Yes, at least in part.

              [r0b: Borderline – but be careful of attacking or making assertions about the authors on their own blog.]

              • tracey

                You are wrong. I wrote it cos Key has been, yet again, duplicitous on this detainee issue, and with quick searching through the last 12 months, I was able to link to a chronology that the Media seemingly could not.

      • Paul 1.4.2

        Desperate troll.

  2. mickysavage 2

    Agreed Tracey. I do not understand the last minute use of urgency especially since it appears that everything was in place months ago.

    Of course urgency fulfills a political imperative even if it does trash good government and generally accepted constitutional norms.

    • tracey 2.1

      My thoughts too Mickey. It does play into the narrative that the Government was blindsided but look how quickly we moved to protect you. Again the crazy thing is it only took me about 20 minutes of googling to pull the articles together… and some who wrote them haven’t made the connections.

      The main one being either we were already protected OR the Government had NO power over Australia to get the information required to protect us. It is an impotent or deceptive government, neither of which should be seen as good for NZ

      • ianmac 2.1.1

        Well sleuthed Tracey. Very smelly. Very strange.

        • tracey

          As I say impotent or deceptive. Neither a good trait for a government. But it seems our journos, including those who wrote some of the stories linked to above, can’t join dots.

  3. savenz 3

    Lists are meaningless unless your have people competent enough to read and interpret them. That is what dictators love, lists, information and mass surveillance but because they are control freaks they centralise the interpretation of the information which tends to null any perceived effectiveness.

    Of course in this case the misinformation sounds deliberate!

  4. tracey 4

    Amazing what happens when you Headline with Honest John.

    Over 100 views in the first quarter hour since posting…

  5. Lucy 5

    Has anyone noticed that this Australian legislation was passed after there was a shortage of refugees being sent to Christmas Island, so SERCO was missing out on money if they were paid by body. All of a sudden there are 600+ more people in SERCO run detention centres none of whom were being moved out quickly. All of whom were discounted by Australians and the countries of their birth as they are all criminals.

  6. dv 6

    Where are these deportees going to live?
    What are they going to use for money to support them selves?

    • infused 6.1

      Donno. But didn’t Labour want them back? Got their wish.

      • Draco T Bastard 6.1.1


        Labour were and are fighting to let these Australians in all but name to stay in Australia.

        • You_Fool

          That doesn’t fit in with the narrative of Labour supporting rapists though, so I guess that couldn’t possibly be what Labour were wanting at all!

          • dv

            SO HOW are the deportees going to support themselves!!!

            • b waghorn

              I’m sure the nats will provide them with a nice bridge to sleep under in Auckland somewhere. , its probably quite cozy huddled up with the 1200 other people living there.

      • weizguy 6.1.2

        No. Labour didn’t want them back. Which you would know if you read any of their statements or any of the comments on this website clearing up that lie.

        Labour’s position is that these people should not be deported (that they should remain close to their families and support networks), but that if they are, they shouldn’t be subjected to inhumane detention.

        It’s really not that hard to understand.

      • Sabine 6.1.3

        Nope mate, Its John Key who wants them back.
        We want them to stay in Australia, which for most is the country in which they would love to stay, considering that they have families, houses, jobs and friends there.
        However, considering how gutless honest John is, he did achieve nothing when he met his soul mate the Prime Minister of OZ.

        And if you are confused about the turn of events, go read any of the links, watch a bit of Parliament TV – especially that guy called Kelvyn Davis. He has been asking honest John a few times about the happenings in Christmas Island. Not that honest John had an answer to anything, but he can’t be faulted, no one told him.

      • tracey 6.1.4

        Do keep up infused. Labour wanted them in Australia. Your pal Key vowed to protect us from them all back in February but just can’t pull it off… cos Australia either ignore him completely or he has lied. You choose

    • Naki man 6.2

      “Where are these deportees going to live?
      What are they going to use for money to support them selves?”

      I am sure Kelvin Davis will have a few stay at his house.
      Perhaps he will get them to babysit his friends children.

      • tracey 6.2.1

        except Kelvin wanted them to be able to stay in Australia, you chap and chapess want them in NZ. This is apparently quite a comple notion for you and infused to grasp.

        Amy Adams and John Key = rapists, murderers and child molesterers (sic) in NZ

        Kelvin Davis, peope who have served their time, and lived the bulk of thei rlives in Australia – in Australia

  7. Ad 7

    Good work Tracey.

    Kelvin Davis chipped at the dam, but it’s turning into an almighty flood.

    • tracey 7.1

      Thanks Ad

      It is making me smile how some RW folks have been so befuddled by all this that they now think Labour was fighting to bring the people to NZ. When in fact that is what Key and Adams have greenlighted since last year

  8. ankerawshark 8

    Ad @7 Yes and incredibly well done by Kelvin Davis. I think it was more than a chip.

    But brilliant follow up by Tracey. Ann Lucy

    I think for polling reasons John Key has bought some of the detainees to NZ. While his motives are deplorable self interest, it would be hard to argue that they are not 100x better off here than Xmas Island

  9. Daniel Cale 9

    “So, that rather begs the question Ms Adams, what were you doing between receiving the report in early 2015, working at some pace before August 2015, but not able to get the info from the Aussies on the types of criminals headed this way until AFTER Mr Key went on a nasty tirade about rapists, murderers and child molesterers (sic)?”

    If you bothered to do even a modicum of research you would have answered your own question. But here’s a question for you. This government is fixing this issue. What did Labou do about it for 9 years. Zero. Zilch. Nada.

    [Are you a National Party staffer? From the amount of smoke you are blowing I cannot think of any other explanation – MS]

    • ropata 9.1

      I think it’s a fair question and something is wrong with democracy when the Government cannot give a straight answer in Parliament, and resorts to insults and blame shifting. Isn’t National supposed to be the party of personal responsibility?

    • tracey 9.2

      Here’s a question for you, in the last year how many people have been deported from Australia to New Zealand, and what were there crimes?

      • Daniel Cale 9.2.1

        Wouldn’t have a clue, and it isn’t even relevant. You’re trying to make a case out of nothing based on assumptions and incomplete information.

        But here’s a question for you…how many prisoners have been deported from Australia under their new law before today?

        • Tracey

          You leader wants to protect us from rapists and murderers and child molesteres but he’sbeen waving them through for some time. You are the one who is uninformed.

  10. Murray Simmonds 10

    D. Cale:

    What an idiotic comment. The Aust Government passed the new legislation AFTER the Nats became the Gov’t – in the last year or two from memory. Not nine years ago as you suggest.

    But rave on, The truth doesn’t matter to a troll.

    • tracey 10.1

      It’s been a day of it

      infused thinks Labour fought to let the Christmas Island people come to NZ. In fact they fought for them to be allowed to stay in Australia

      cale thinks I am somehow connected tot he Labouor Party and made this post to create a smokescreen for Ms king

      up is down i their little national sound-bite filled worlds

      • Daniel Cale 10.1.1

        Labour are a joke on this Tracey. One minute they’re telling us the detainees are all angels, the next they’re spreading fear that the government has failed to protect us from these terrible people. It’s priceless.

        [No they are not. They are just insisting on basic human rights being observed. Stop distorting otherwise your commenting privileges will be discontinued – MS]

        • Tracey

          You are very confused. I guess peddling your leader’s deceptive lines on this is making your brain fuzzy. No one said they were angels. They said to all intents and purposes they are Australians. Many moulded there so thus their anti social behaviour was founded there

          Start posting links to support your statements or get off my thread.

        • The Pink Postman

          that is what it is all about humane rights .The Nat’s gave up on that years ago.

    • Daniel Cale 10.2

      You’re just plain wrong. This has been an issue for far longer than the most recent legislation. But good try at a diversion.

      • mickysavage 10.2.1

        OK back your comments up. Tell us how it is all Labour’s fault that the Aussie Tories changed the law last December.

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