Students speak on loan cap

Written By: - Date published: 10:48 am, May 28th, 2015 - 46 comments
Categories: education, tertiary education - Tags: , ,

Of all the foolish, shortsighted actions of this government, the undermining of postgraduate study has to be one of the worst. One of these changes, the lifetime limit on eligibility for student loans, particularly affects those committed to a long term course of study, such as medical students. They can’t get loans for their final years of study. It’s crazy. The students are asking to #letmefinish.

Here are brief statements from some of the students affected. (Hmm – as viewed here the playlist doesn’t continue, so check out the sequence on Youtube):

46 comments on “Students speak on loan cap”

  1. Wensleydale 1

    We can’t have students actually finishing their degrees and graduating. They’d end up being all clever and insightful and stuff. And then they’d probably, if they were paying attention, see through the webs of deceit and chicanery relentlessly woven by this government. Worse, they might remember their less than gentle treatment at the hands of the National Party and harbour some sort of grudge. Terribly inconvenient during an election year, you know.

  2. Colonial Rawshark 2

    The first four years of tertiary study should be free.

    Giving students more loans so they enter adult life with bigger debts is OK but hardly optimal.

    • Brutus Iscariot 2.2

      By “free” you mean “taxpayer funded” right?

      You’d get better results funding vocational/technical training in key areas. New Zealand doesn’t need more BA or “Bachelor of Communications” graduates.

      If university is a crap investment for most people, they just shouldn’t go. I don’t see what’s so difficult about that.

      • One Anonymous Bloke 2.2.1

        Another right winger who thinks education must conform to their personal problems.

        • Brutus Iscariot 2.2.1.1

          Yes well, there’s education, and there’s education. I’d argue that a lot of tertiary courses are overstuffed with students learning things that are of limited practical significance – intellectually and otherwise. Of course universities love issuing McDegrees in whatever subjects they can get people into to, it increases their size and prestige.

          Higher education should be both a luxury and an investment – subsidised but not made a free for all.

          A conformist attitude would be thinking that society at large should stump up for everyone to be able to while away the whole of their 20’s chilling in the Uni quad in a stoned haze.

          • Stephanie Rodgers 2.2.1.1.1

            I’d argue that a lot of tertiary courses are overstuffed with students learning things that are of limited practical significance

            And “practical significance” is something which can be objectively measured, of course.

            I mean, there’s nothing “practical” about my own degree – English Literature with a side of German. Except that it massively broadened my understanding of our language, of writing and editing, of presenting my interpretation of a text, of thinking critically rather than accepting things at face value … but look, if it doesn’t specifically lead straight into a Proper Job it’s obviously worthless!

            It’s so incredibly dismissive to write off any kind of learning as “impractical” just because you lack the respect and imagination to understand how much it can contribute to a person’s life.

            • Brutus Iscariot 2.2.1.1.1.1

              I don’t dispute that it contributes a lot to your life.

              You’ll note i said “intellectual and otherwise”. I’d argue your degree has plenty of transferrable skills, as you elucidated.

              FYI i studied Classics and Ancient History at university, a useless subject at face value, however my attitude towards it mirrors yours exactly. My Commerce degree was almost certainly a complete waste of time though – i learned little there that i wouldn’t have learned on the job.

              Too many people are at university marking time who shouldn’t be there, “learning” stuff that doesnt require a 3+ year fulltime study investment paid for by everyone else . The problem is people who just focus on how they want to live their life, and to hell with the productive members of society who have to foot the bill.

              @ OAB, re: having a clue, you come across as a poorly educated loudmouth, who perenially opts for passive-aggressive sniping rather than genuine debate, so i suggest there is a hint of hypocrisy there. Although let it be said that you’re still light years ahead of your companion below. And to challenge his assumptions – university educated with an Honours Arts Degree, 30 years old, no kids.

              • Tracey

                where will you get the jobs you need for the say, 25% of school leavers who go on to tertiary that won’t fit your model?

            • Tracey 2.2.1.1.1.2

              “A conformist attitude would be thinking that society at large should stump up for everyone to be able to while away the whole of their 20’s chilling in the Uni quad in a stoned haze.”

              Joyce took ten years to get a Zoology degree… funny that

          • One Anonymous Bloke 2.2.1.1.2

            I disagree with Stephanie: to be dismissive of something you have to have a clue about it.

          • Chooky 2.2.1.1.3

            University education is an investment for the country…as they well know in Europe where tertiary education it is relatively free….

            It is only in Neolib Anglo Saxon countries where there is an increasing gap between rich and poor that the squeeze is being put on free tertiary education, especially for the middle classes….and these countries are NOT doing well economically or socially…in fact they are getting more fascist

            ….and fascism is the opposite of critical informed thinking and a strong democracy

          • meconism 2.2.1.1.4

            Hey Brutus, go and take the largest, sharpest, hardest thing you can find and anally fuck yourself with it until the end of time.

            I am currently working, at 12: 22 am with 9 of my peers, on our end of semester assignments for our Masters in Science Communication specialising in Natural History Documentary Film Making to teach the children of ignorant cunts like you that their parents are irresponsible fuck heads who have imperilled the environment and we need to find a better way to live. Got that you talentless gob shite.

            • Tracey 2.2.1.1.4.1

              Couldn’t you have found a way to write that without the offensive language?

    • Chooky 2.3

      ALL tertiary education should be free….and undergrad students should study at their local university unless this university does not have the courses they require….( and those who can not pass the required courses should be required to leave)

      …when I was a student we lived frugally but we had no debt…
      student loans are a debt millstone around young people’s necks

      • Colville. 2.3.1

        You mean paid for by someone else when you say free don’t you?

        Nothing is free.

        You just want “free” stuff without working for it.

  3. The Fairy Godmother 3

    Its embarrassing that my kids uni fees including postgraduate were paid by the family trust. Even then the study doesn’t guarantee a job. Oh for the days when the state paid the fees for the number of graduates actually required in the professions. Rather than funding various institutions to provide more and more courses wasting people’s time and money.

    • Colonial Rawshark 3.1

      With the economy as it is now, many of our grads will never make more than $50K pa – and that’s assuming that they can find full time work in NZ.

      • Colville. 3.1.1

        So why is the taxpayer funding thousands of people thru Uni if there are no useful jobs for them?

        $50K/yr isnt even a labourers rate on a building site. (at 2 years experience)

  4. Tracey 4

    I am still wondering what the objection is to medical students being able to opt in to a bond scheme. “We” pay their fees to train (however many years we pay for their study they give us 2 per year in bond to go to certain parts of NZ). No one has to do it. So they have choice. BUT those that do, get posted.

    1 year funding = 2 year bonding

    and so on

    • Puckish Rogue 4.1

      I’ve had similar thoughts about military service and study as well, two years service = one years study for example

      Could probably even extend it to working for DOC or similar organisation

      • Tracey 4.1.1

        To my knowledge the military still offer it PR.

        • Puckish Rogue 4.1.1.1

          Not really like this though, there is study soldiers can do but its limited to your trade and if the course of study will benefit the military

          For instance someone rocks up and wants to study small business the board will have a look at the cost versus the benefit to the military and will probably get told no and

          I’m suggesting more along the lines of two years service = one years study at the recognized institution of your choice studying whatever you like

          • Tracey 4.1.1.1.1

            yes but if you want to be an engineer, a chef, a pilot, a mechanic, a lawyer, a builder, ALL of that is possible through the military.

            BUT you risk being deployed

            I understand the concept you suggest but I won’t support it.

            • Puckish Rogue 4.1.1.1.1.1

              Sure but those are trades whereas I’m talking studying at a university (if thats what they want) but don’t you want to make it easier for our military pers to study?

              It can always be extended for other forms of service

              • arkie

                Didn’t you read the post? Engineering? Law?
                Those are professions that require University education.

                • Puckish Rogue

                  Thats what I’m saying, for example do two years service and you get one years free study at uni studying whatever you want, 4 years service = 2 years all the way upto 6 years service to get three years study

                  and if you’ve got the nous, you’ll have a decent amount saved up that over that time that you can go on and do more study if you choose

                  • Craig H

                    Just forgive the student loan at a set rate per annum and suspend repayment deductions (voluntary repayments could still be made). The longer the study, the longer the service required to clear it.

                    • Puckish Rogue

                      I think it’d be better to do the service first and study second, easier to implement and keep track off

                  • Tracey

                    what is it about the military service that attracts you to this idea?

                    • Puckish Rogue

                      Its not just military service you could do this for, you could also work it in with DOC for example but really its about showing appreciation to those in put thmeselves in the (literal) firing lines

                      Most people that join (especially in the enlisted ranks) come from lower socio-economic groupings and see the military as a way to better their circumstances, which is true

                      So why not reward them for their duty by some tertiary study?

            • Chooky 4.1.1.1.1.2

              yes well free study wont help if you get killed or permanently incapacitated in Iraq of course….as many a working class USA solder has found

              • Puckish Rogue

                Yes well when you look at the amount of pers going vs the amount of pers not going its a very small amount, 143 troops going out of a possible 6500.

                Its also voluntary and you’ll find that most, if not all, are quite keen to go.

                Since there is the possibility of getting killed or permanently incapacitated then it would seem reasonable to allow pers the chance to study what they want doesn’t it

                Also this is NZ not the USA

                • Tracey

                  Why do we need the military service bit Puck? Why not just offer bonded service in return for waived fees? It would then be targeted to professions/trades with shortages and to shortages in the regions of quality people in certain professions/trades? What exactly is the social gain of having folks be in the military, the payback you have in mind?

                  • Puckish Rogue

                    Easier to implement would be my first answer and then its a good reward for peoples service

                    I’m not saying you can’t do it in other areas, I’m saying you can do this in this area and it will be rather simple to implement

                    I realise theres a lot of irrational, naive dislike (if not outright hatred) of the armed services in NZ but most people don’t seem to realise that a great deal (if not most) of the people that join are those from poorer areas and are simply trying to improve their lots in life

                    • Tracey

                      My question has NOTHING to do with ” irrational, naive dislike (if not outright hatred) of the armed services in NZ” but to do with what your thinking is around what the military service adds, or are you saying it is for people inclined toward the military who want to train on top, cos that is already there. Therefore you must be thinking of it as a way to draw people to military service and I am asking why, what is it about it that wants you to draw people to it in return for training?

                      I don’t think it would be cheaper to set up. The opposite cos we would be paying food, accommodation and training costs for many more people. Bonding on the other hand only pays for the education part.

                    • Puckish Rogue

                      I’m not saying it primarily as an enticement to join (though it could be used) but as a tangible reward for people who serve

                      Also I’m not saying they stay in while they study but they take up the study when they leave and it’d be up to them to take up the study when they want

                      Sure you may not dislike the military but you only have to read through a few of the posts on here to see what I’m talking about

                • Chooky

                  @PR re “Its also voluntary and you’ll find that most, if not all, are quite keen to go.”

                  …yes but not quite so keen once they are killed or maimed …they and their families think it was a very bad deal…and feel conned ….and have considerable regrets…it is a devils bargain!

                  ….dont you think it is disgracefully immoral that working class people should have to put their lives on the line to get a good education?!

                  …I think yours is a disgraceful case of neolib brainwashing!

                  …education is a right !….for all of humanity!

                • Chooky

                  @ PR …when i say “maimed” i also mean psychologically maimed as in post traumatic stress disorders ( and it is very bad for your education!)

                  ….you wont get the politicians sending off their sons/daughters to war in order to get a good education

                  ….why should the working class be sent off to war to pay for their education?…this is shockingly immoral….are the workling class less human?….do they have less human rights.?…this is what you are arguing

  5. Sable 6

    Education is for the rich not the masses but we still pay taxes to cover a good portion of the cost nonetheless.

    • Tracey 6.1

      Not in the classes I am currently teaching. I suspect out of my classes, given the experiences they share as we do case studies no more than 10% come from even middle class homes.

  6. kiwigunner 7

    Something has gone terribly wrong when there are few jobs for kids leaving school, employers harp on about needing trained and experienced people (forgetting their obligation to do some of this) universities are underfunded to the extent that fees keep rising and after three years most kids studying have $30k’s debt. Just who is getting all the taxes we pay?

  7. KiwiPilot 8

    I’m having the same trouble with caps on pilot training. Over 100 thousand dollars in debt and I can’t get funding to finish the last part of my course. I am currently trying to borrow 30 thousand dollars from somewhere simply to finish.

    It’s hard enough trying to get your first job in the industry which will pay very little but may provide a pathway to a proper career. I don’t expect everything to be handed to me on a platter and I don’t mind paying back my loan. I’ve already been offered some opportunities but cannot consider them until I finish the final part of my training and it’s just extremely hard to cough up 30 thousand dollars just to get my diploma (especially while trying to manage the cost of living in Auckland). All the while every time I have to take a break in my flying to sort out funds I lose a bit of currency in my flying skills.

    The flight schools of course are losing students because average people don’t have piles of money lying around and they are looking to fill the gap with students from overseas. Airlines have also previously suggested putting pilots on immigration’s skill shortage list. I understand the request to put pilots on the skill shortage list was put down but basically overseas students will be able to gain a pathway to residence through pilot training, an opportunity which is being denied to many ordinary kiwis who aren’t rich.

    Now if these cuts were unfair but could produce a budget surplus that would be one thing. But they aren’t even achieving that.

    • Tracey 8.1

      Not being smart, but did you try doing it through the air force?

      I know a few pilots and all of them came from very wealthy familes who paid for the enormous hours of training required.

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    There has been a lot of talk about Boris Johnson wanting an election, and he has blustered with great gusto about 'chicken' Jeremy Corbyn refusing one, but I think there are many reasons why he is secretly glad he has been refused the opportunity:The Tories are an utter rabble,tearing themselves ...
    1 week ago
  • Prorogation Illegal, rule Scottish judges
    Scottish appeal court judges have declared that Boris Johnson’s decision to suspend parliament in the run-up to the October Brexit deadline is unlawful. The three judges, chaired by Lord Carloway, Scotland’s most senior judge, overturned an earlier ruling that the courts did not have the powers to interfere in the prime ...
    1 week ago
  • Let me explain what I meant by Everyday New Zealanders
    By Simon Bridges. The following is a press release from the office of Simon Bridges, leader of The National Party. Key ora, New Zealand. Happy Maori Language Week. Look, I’m writing to you today because I want to clear something up. There’s been a lot of kerfuffle around some things ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    1 week ago
  • Yes, the SIS is subject to the Public Records Act
    I understand there's some stuff going round about how the SIS "was removed from the list of public offices covered by the Public Records Act in 2017". The context of course being their records derived from US torture, which will be disposed of or sealed. The good news is that ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • An evidence-based discussion of the Canadian fluoride/IQ study
    Dr. Christopher Labos and Jonathan Jarry discuss the recent Canadian fluoride/IQ research. They provide an expert analysis of the paper and its problems. Click on image to go to podcast. The critical debate about the recent ...
    1 week ago
  • Climate Change: Australia in denial
    Australia is burning down again, and meanwhile its natural disaster minister is denying climate change:Australia’s minister responsible for drought and natural disasters, David Littleproud, has said that he doesn’t “know if climate change is manmade”. Clarifying earlier comments that the question is “irrelevant” when considering the Coalition government’s response to ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Philippines activist speaking on the Duterte tyranny
    Auckland Philippines Solidarity is excited to host Professor Judy Taguiwalo for a speaking tour of NZ in September. She is a well-known activist in the Philippines and was a political prisoner under the Marcos dictatorship. Professor Taguiwalo briefly served as a Cabinet member under President Duterte but was forced from ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    1 week ago
  • Disgust
    I have no special insights to offer on the Labour sexual assault coverup. All I have is disgust. Disgust that an organisation could fail its people so badly. Disgust that they punished the victims rather than the perpetrator. Disgust that its party hacks are apparently blaming the victims for demanding ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Speak Up for Women calls out Greens’ censorship
    This open letter to the Green Party was penned after an opinion piece by Jill Abigail, a feminist and founding member of the party, was censored by the Greens’ leadership. (Redline has reprinted her article here).The intolerance of the Green Party leaders and their acceptance of the misogyny of gender ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    1 week ago
  • Member’s Day: End of Life Choice, part 3
    Today is a Member's day, and David Seymour's End of Life Choice Bill continues its slow crawl through its committee stage. They're spending the whole day on it today, though the first hour is likely to be spent on voting left over from last time. After that they'll move on ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Flight to Los Angeles turned back after passengers decide they don’t want to go anymore
    An ambitious plan to fly to Los Angeles petered out into a brief sight-seeing trip and a desire to return home and get some sleep before work tomorrow. Air New Zealand has confirmed a flight to Los Angeles last night was turned back about a quarter of the way into ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    1 week ago
  • Indigenous Futures: defuturing and futuring – an analytical framework for policy development?
    There appears to be consensus – by omission – that the concept of indigenous futures should be accepted at face value. So I scavenged the internet to see if I could locate an academic descriptor or a framework around how we think about it as a concept, and whether it ...
    EllipsisterBy Ellipsister
    1 week ago
  • Cadbury rumoured to be releasing the Pineapple Trump
    Here’s another novelty chocolate to shove in your gob, New Zealand Cadbury could be seeking to make itself great again with a rumoured new release: Pineapple Trumps, a spin on its classic chocolate-encased pineapple treat and do-it-yourself tooth remover. The global confectionery manufacturer and bumbling “before” character in an infomercial, ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    1 week ago
  • The coming resource war.
    During my time in the Pentagon I had the privilege of sitting down with military leaders and defence and security officials from a variety of Latin American nations. Sometimes I was present as a subordinate assistant to a senior US defence department official, sometimes as part of a delegation that ...
    KiwipoliticoBy Pablo
    1 week ago
  • Māori Language Week with The Civilian
    Kia ora, Aotearoa. It’s that magical time of year. Te Wiki o te Reo Māori. In English, the week that frightens talk radio. As you probably know by now, all your favourite media outlets are participating, some more successfully than others. Stuff has changed its name to Puna for the ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    1 week ago
  • Will Horizons act on climate change?
    Local body elections are coming up next month. And it looks like all Palmerston North candidates for Horizons (the Manawatu-Whanganui Regional Council) want to take action on climate change:Climate change is set to be a key issue in Palmerston North for the next three years if those wanting to get ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • BORA reform is stalled
    Eighteen months ago, the government promised to strengthen the Bill of Rights Act, by explicitly affirming the power of the courts to issue declarations of inconsistency and requiring Parliament to formally respond to them. So how's that going? I was curious, so I asked for all advice about the proposal. ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Corbyn and Brexit
    As the Brexit saga staggers on, the focus is naturally enough on the Prime Minister and his attempts to achieve Brexit “do or die”. But the role played by the Leader of the Opposition is of almost equal interest and complexity. The first problem for Jeremy Corbyn is that he ...
    Bryan GouldBy Bryan Gould
    1 week ago
  • A ditch for him to die in
    Last week, English Prime Minister Boris Johnson boldly declared that he would rather die be dead in a ditch than delay Brexit. Unfortunately for him, the UK parliament accepted the challenge, and promptly dug one for him. The "rebellion bill" requires him to ask for and secure yet another temporary ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Warning! Warning! Danger Jacinda Ardern! Danger Marama Davidson! Warning!
    Lost In Political Space: The most important takeaway from this latest Labour sexual assault scandal, which (if I may paraphrase Nixon’s White House counsel’s, John Dean’s, infamous description of Watergate) is “growing like a cancer” on the premiership, is the Labour Party organisation’s extraordinary professional paralysis in the face of ...
    1 week ago
  • Union solidarity with Ihumatao land occupation
    by Daphna Whitmore Every Sunday for the past two months unionists from First Union, with supporters from other unions, have set out to the Ihumatao land protest, put up gazebos and gas barbeques, and cooked food for a few hundred locals and supporters who have come from across the country. ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    1 week ago
  • Climate Change: The wrong kind of trees?
    Newsroom today has an excellent, in-depth article on pine trees as carbon sinks. The TL;DR is that pine is really good at soaking up carbon, but people prefer far-less efficient native forests instead. Which is understandable, but there's two problems: firstly, we've pissed about so long on this problem that ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • No freedom of speech in Turkey
    Canan Kaftancioglu is a Turkish politician and member of the opposition Republican People's Party (CHP). Like most modern politicians, she tweets, and uses the platform to criticise the Turkish government. She has criticised them over the death of a 14-year-old boy who was hit by a tear gas grenade during ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Speaker: Tadhg Stopford: Why I’m standing for the ADHB
    Hi there, just call me Tim.We face tough problems, and I’d like to help, because there are solutions.An Auckand District Health Board member has nominated me for as a candidate for the ADHB, because her MS-related pain and fatigue is reduced with hemp products from Rotorua.  Nothing else helped her. If I ...
    1 week ago
  • Good little vassals
    The Inspector-General of Intelligence and Security has published their report on whether the SIS and GCSB had any complicity in American torture. And its damning. The pull quote is this:The Inquiry found both agencies, but to a much greater degree, the NZSIS, received many intelligence reports obtained from detainees who, ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Who Shall We Turn To When God, And Uncle Sam, Cease To Defend New Zealand?
    Bewhiskered Cassandra? Professor Hugh White’s chilling suggestion, advanced to select collections of academic, military and diplomatic Kiwi experts over the course of the past week, is that the assumptions upon which Australia and New Zealand have built their foreign affairs and defence policies for practically their entire histories – are ...
    1 week ago
  • The Politics of Opposition
    For most of the time I was a British MP, my party was out of government – these were the Thatcher years, when it was hard for anyone else to get a look-in. As a front-bencher and shadow minister, I became familiar with the strategies required in a parliamentary democracy ...
    Bryan GouldBy Bryan Gould
    1 week ago
  • More expert comments on the Canadian fluoride-IQ paper
    The Green et al (2019) fluoride/IQ is certainly controversial – as would be expected from its subject (see If at first you don’t succeed . . . statistical manipulation might help and Politics of science – making a silk purse out of a sow’s ear). Anti-fluoride campaigners have been actively promoting it ...
    2 weeks ago
  • The return to guerrilla war in Colombia
    by Gearóid Ó Loingsigh On August 29th a video in which veteran FARC (Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia) commander Iván Márquez announced that they had taken up arms again was released. There was no delay in the reaction to it, from longtime Liberal Party figure and former president Uribe, for ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    2 weeks ago
  • Air New Zealand identifies this enormous plot of unused land as possible second airport site
    Air New Zealand couldn’t believe its luck that this seemingly ideal piece of real estate had so far gone entirely unnoticed. Air New Zealand’s search for a site to build a second Auckland Airport may have made a breakthrough this afternoon, after employees scanning Google satellite imagery spotted a huge, ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    2 weeks ago
  • Redline on the Labour Party
    No-one on the anti-capitalist left in this country today puts forward a case that Labour is on the side of the working class.  There are certainly people who call themselves ‘socialist’ who do, but they are essentially liberals with vested interests in Labourism – often for career reasons. Nevertheless, there ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    2 weeks ago
  • New Fisk
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Labour’s failure
    When National was in government and fucking over the poor for the benefit of the rich, foodbanks were a growth industry. And now Labour is in charge, nothing has changed: A huge demand for emergency food parcels means the Auckland City Mission is struggling to prepare for the impending arrival ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago

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