The Catholic Church is urging its parishoners to vote

29 comments on “The Catholic Church is urging its parishoners to vote ”

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1. WILD KATIPO 1

   21 July 2017 at 8:39 am

   And yet just as a reminder before anyone starts thinking about the National party as the only viable option simply because they like to call themselves ‘conservatives’…

   We all know in the USA that the neo cons have a large conservative base. Many of which are mainstream christian denominations. And while it is true that the Apostle Paul advocated ‘ working with your hands so that none of you become a burden to others ‘ etc…

   He also advocated to ‘ visit those in prison , care for the widows, share your belongings with one another ‘ …

   Jesus himself reserved his harshest criticisms for those in authority in Israel , – the Pharisee’s , calling them hypocrites and a ‘ den of vipers ‘… and as he healed the sick , speaking in parables often about the poor and the ostracized , and Gods love for them…

   Just because a political party try to say they are ‘conservative’ does not automatically mean they line up at all with christian values. This is why so many ‘ christian socialists ‘ backed Michael Joseph Savage ,.. because his social programs lined up best with those values.

   Choose wisely this election because this election is a pivotal crossroads for all of us.
   • Cinny 1.1

     21 July 2017 at 9:18 am

     +1
2. JanM 2

   21 July 2017 at 9:02 am

   Interesting – I remember that in 1972 a number of churches made quite open pleas to their congregation to vote for Norman Kirk and Labour – this is the first time since I’m aware of that happening
   • Norfolk Traveller 2.1

     21 July 2017 at 1:50 pm

     I don’t see this as a call to vote for any particular party, just a call to vote. I’m not a Catholic, but this is beautifully written and very timely.
     • WILD KATIPO 2.1.1

       21 July 2017 at 2:02 pm

       Yes. It is a call to vote essentially , and historically the division between church and state is taken seriously in a democracy, in both Protestant and Catholic churches ,… generally church leaders are loathe to start becoming politically partisan. Its generally not in their job brief.
       • Norfolk Traveller 2.1.1.1

         21 July 2017 at 2:58 pm

         And neither should it be.
         • JanM 2.1.1.1.1

           21 July 2017 at 5:03 pm

           I don’t think that anyone stood up in a pulpit and said “vote Labour” any more than they’re doing now, but if you have a social conscience and you’re deeply concerned about the mess we’re in as a society it is pretty obvious what the encouragement is all for.
           My father was a Methodist minister in the 70s and there was a similar feeling of urgency about what was happening to us – getting involved in politics at any level is not something a minister/priest does lightly
           • Norfolk Traveller 2.1.1.1.1.1

             21 July 2017 at 5:22 pm

             It isn’t something they should do at all. I am a committed Christian, but I get very concerned when see Christian leaders actively entering politics. I’m not referring to speaking into the issues, they should do that, I’m talking about setting up political parties that claim to be Christian. We live in a society where the separation of Church and state keeps us safe from the excesses of the theocracies bedeviled by, for example, Islam. Long may that continue.
             • JanM …

               21 July 2017 at 7:59 pm

               They were speaking to the issues, but issues are political, like it or not
3. Robert Guyton 3

   21 July 2017 at 9:11 am

   “New Zealand’s export-based economy has started to show its environmental limits, with increased greenhouse gas emissions, di use freshwater pollution and threats to biodiversity. Are we, as a nation, really pulling our weight on climate change when we plan to meet our commitments in this regard by simply buying carbon credits from other countries?”

   Are we? That’s not a very strong position from the church, a tentative, “are we”, when it’s plain that we are not. Bill will tell his people, “We are” and they’ll feel relieved,
   • McFlock 3.1

     21 July 2017 at 11:52 am

     The church is one of those organisations which is habitually precise and quiet about politics, for historical as well as diplomatic reasons.

     It’s actually a pretty strong position for the church to comment so specifically on NZ political issues. It only looks mellow when you compare it with bombasts like Trotter. but then Trotter doesn’t have 500,000 NZers thinking he’s got a priority phone line to the creator of the universe (regardless of his own position on the matter lol).

     As someone else said, it might be 40-odd years since the last time the church made such a strong statement in NZ. That’s got to count for something.
4. DoublePlusGood 4

   21 July 2017 at 10:11 am

   “Love and care for the unborn, the vulnerable, the disabled, the elderly and the different, are marks of a compassionate society”

   Wow – that’s some weapons-grade hypocrisy right there, given their treatment of the vulnerable and different particularly.
   • Ad 4.1

     21 July 2017 at 11:57 am

     You’re not voting on church policy, you’re voting on electoral policy.

     The Bishops opinions will only matter to those already disposed to them.
     • marty mars 4.1.1

       21 July 2017 at 12:05 pm

       what about the hypocrisy – is that just ignored?
       • adam 4.1.1.1

         21 July 2017 at 5:18 pm

         No, like all great theological arguments – they take time to resolve.

         So the base position is compassion and love. From there, some divergence of opinion. Look at Ad and Myself – we disagree with the church on somethings, and disagree with each other on somethings, is that hypocrisy? I fully respect Ad, and like hearing his position, even if I give him stick, and him me.

         If you add the second part of the statement

         “Legalisation of assisted suicide undermines trust in the medical profession and puts vulnerable groups in our society at risk.”

         I fully agree with that sentiment, as a disabled person, I’m finding the current legislation being purposed, bloody terrifying. There are precedents, and like it or not, we have some nasty people in this country who have no morals, or very lose ones. We let disabled children die already in this country, I’m not happy handing people the tools to kill more.
         • marty mars 4.1.1.1.1

           21 July 2017 at 5:42 pm

           Thanks for that, interesting. I thought ad was saying forget the church stuff and think of it just as a political act. That seemed strange to me. Where would it end.
5. WILD KATIPO 5

   21 July 2017 at 11:10 am

   The Great American Novel-Music: Larry Norman – YouTube
   you tube▶ 4:51
   
6. Bill 6

   21 July 2017 at 11:40 am

   “where there is no vision the people perish” (Proverbs 29:18).

   And don’t we know it. What’s been the “vision” of these past 30 years? Yup. Pitch ‘one against all’ in a melee to grasp “opportunities” lest you perish. That was always going to end well.

   So which political party has a vision that isn’t just some continuation of the above; that puts people first; that puts society first – that has no place for the opportunistic lolly scramble of these past decades that has always favoured the biggest and more heartless, careless and more aggressive amongst us?

   Which party envisages something beyond just leveling that playing field of “opportunity”?
   • McFlock 6.1

     21 July 2017 at 11:54 am

     Gotta say I’m leaning towards the Greens.
     I’m hoping it’s just a passing case of the vapours.
7. Sam C 7

   21 July 2017 at 11:41 am

   I don’t see what the problem is with this. Surely unions will be telling their members to get out and vote? The difference of course is that the unions will be telling their members WHO to vote for (presumably anyone but National or Act).

   The church isn’t telling its congregation who to vote for, merely encouraging people to be involved in the democratic process. What’s wrong with that?

   [This is the second time in as many days I’ve stumbled across a comment by you that has obviously been made without reading anything. A third time will be the last time.] – Bill
   • Robert Guyton 7.1

     21 July 2017 at 1:24 pm

     The Catholic church, Sam C, is guiding it’s people on how to decide their vote. Read the post. See if you can determine if there is any bias in that guidance. There may or may not be some. You might like to comment.
     • Norfolk Traveller 7.1.1

       21 July 2017 at 1:52 pm

       I don’t detect bias, just genuine concern. I don’t agree with everything they have said, but the overall sentiment is that as a nation we face some challenges, and exercising our democratic right to vote is a responsibility we should take seriously.
       • Robert Guyton 7.1.1.1

         21 July 2017 at 2:10 pm

         “I don’t detect bias, just genuine concern.”

         “Legalisation of assisted suicide undermines trust in the medical profession and puts vulnerable groups in our society at risk.”

         Hmmmmm……
         • Norfolk Traveller 7.1.1.1.1

           21 July 2017 at 2:43 pm

           Yes, I meant bias towards a particular political party. Naturally the Catholic Bishops will put forward their own viewpoint, that’s what any group does.
       • Robert Guyton 7.1.1.2

         21 July 2017 at 2:13 pm

         That said, there are some very positive statements from the bishops and cardinals that must be making Bill English squirm:

         “We are deeply disturbed by the growing prison population in New Zealand. It is a national disgrace. Crime rates have in fact fallen in New Zealand. What is driving the increase in prison numbers is changes to bail law, sentencing and parole.”

         That’s a direct criticism of the National Government’s work.
         • Norfolk Traveller 7.1.1.2.1

           21 July 2017 at 2:57 pm

           Why would you assume that specifically? In 2008, the number of people in prison per head of population was 197 (http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PO0804/S00405.htm). Today that number is either 155 (http://www.stats.govt.nz/browse_for_stats/government_finance/central_government/nz-in-the-oecd/justice.aspx), or 202 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_incarceration_rate) depending on the source. At worst that’s not a big change under this government.
           I don’t see implicit criticism of any government in their statement, just a commentary on NZ in general. Some of it I don’t agree with, but it is a call to action, a call to exercise our democratic freedom, and as such is welcome.
8. Robert Guyton 8

   21 July 2017 at 1:26 pm

   ” the galloping gap between the rich and the poor”

   Says it all.
9. james 9

   21 July 2017 at 2:07 pm

   I think that this is a great example of how ‘leaders of groups’ should communicate.

   They have articulated issues and views that they think are important and let people research and decide for themselves.

   It does not link to ‘biased’ articles supporting parties that they may want them to vote for.

   It helps create educated voters – and that can only be a good thing.
10. mary_a 10

    21 July 2017 at 4:57 pm

    Excellent.

    Now we wait to see if Catholic Bill English pays attention to the wise words of his spiritual advisers, takes on board what they have said and acts accordingly.

    Could be a long waiting game I fear!

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