The Nats on Iraq

Written By: - Date published: 11:55 am, November 5th, 2008 - 32 comments
Categories: bill english, iraq, john key - Tags: , ,

The Nats have had two responses to English’s “pull the trigger” comments revealed last night: first the taping itself was branded a “dirty trick” and now we have Key claiming on Sunrise this morning that the comments may have been taken out of context.

Well here’s a view of his own, straight from Hansard, with plenty of context. New Zealand, says John Key, is “MIA [missing in action]” in Iraq, and the country will pay for it…Bill’s views, as revealed on the secret tape, are right in line with National Party sentiment on issues of international relations – Clark and Goff have it right.

Once again in private Bill’s been caught out telling the truth – it’s just a shame that neither he nor his leader can do so in public.

[Update: Bill has posted a link to this in the comments. Cheers bro. (warning: some content is quite graphic)]

32 comments on “The Nats on Iraq”

  1. appleboy 2

    jesus – play this as a labour tv ad and they will win the election – what a dickhead key is…he was almost hyperventalating

  2. Felix 3


    Have I missed a war somewhere? As far as I can recall the Nats have always wanted us in them, boots and all.


    Yep he’s not allowed to show that face anymore.

  3. all_your_base 4

    I agree appleboy. If they’re not going to I guess we’re stuck with YouTube…

  4. bobo 5

    If the Labour party were behind the secret recordings they would have released them in one batch not spread out like this as the public losses interest in them. Obviously its more to do with TV3 wanting to get an edge over TV1 by spreading them out over time to boost ratings, look at how they manufactured the war medals theft fake interview.. They can hide behind not revealing their sources..

  5. milo 6

    So it’s secret, but it’s in Hansard? Weird logic.

    I’ll say it again. Helen Clark agrees that sometimes you have to be willing to pull the trigger. She did so in Afghanistan.

    And how come Labour had attack ads running on this last night? What other explanation can there be, except the campaign strategists and the agent provacteur are working hand in glove?

  6. Quoth the Raven 7

    There’ll be no free trade arrangement aye Johnny boy…

  7. Matthew Pilott 8

    Milo – I saw one of the ads about Iraq about six nights ago. For these people to be working hand in glove – well they should work on their coordination.

  8. Daveski 10

    It would help if someone on the Standard would be kind enough to list the areas our military is allowed to participate in.

    As the Americans, Brits and Aussies are also in Afghanistan, it can’t be an issue being beside the Yanks, Poms or Ockers.

    As with the other thread, please also advise when vote bribing is legitimate and when it’s simply pork barrelling.

  9. Felix 11

    “Attack ad” milo?

    How so?

  10. Felix 12


    NZ policy is to support the United Nations.

    I, for one, have no wish to see that become “support the United States” or “support anyone who might do a free trade deal”

  11. John Dalley 13

    It would be real helpfull if you got your fact right and not be the same lieing toad as John Key.
    New Zealand and Labour have never gone into Iraq and are in Afganistan because the mission is sanctioned by the UN, not USA.
    John Key is a lieing toe-rag and has not been taken to task by the media for the deliberate mis-information that he has been spouting all this election cycle.

  12. Con 14

    I think it’s hilarious how Nats claim it’s a “dirty trick” to publicise the political statements of their party’s leaders. Bizarro world!

    Looks like Bill fancies himself Deputy Dog, loyally trotting at the heels of war-mongers like Bush. Pretty typical for the Nats, historically.

    I think this may well hurt the Nats actually, because a large majority of NZers have always thought the invasion of Iraq (plainly this is what Billl was talking about) was plain wrong. And that note of uncritical subordination to the US military just won’t fly in NZ any more. I think that a great deal of (quiet) pride in NZ’s national independence has built up since the ban on nuclear weapons. When the US govt spat the dummy over it and killed ANZUS they weren’t doing themselves any favours in NZ. I can see why they felt they had to do it; to make an example of NZ to other countries contemplating independence, and really they didn’t really put the screws on us like they did to some countries, but all the same it still hardened people against them in NZ, and we’ve got used now to the idea that we’re not under the nuclear umbrella, not invading Iraq, and so on, and we won’t change it. I predict that if the Nats do win, they will not be able to subordinate NZ’s foreign policy to US imperialism, though they may well try..

    Long live Nuclear Free and Independent New Zealand!

  13. Irascible 15

    One cannot help but wonder at the political naivety of the National Party leader when he announces to the world that he would prefer to work with a Republican President rather than a Democrat as he believes that McCain’s policies would indicate he would be a friend to NZ whereas Obama would not be such an assured “friend to New Zealand.”
    John Key should realise that the US President is not Winston Peters or whoever else in NZ politics he doen’t like.
    At this time in an election cycle and as a pretender to the premiership of NZ one would think that Key would exercise sound political judgment and refrain from making such a pronouncement especially as it has taken the Labour led Government till recently to persuade, cajole and negotiate with the American administration to recognise the reality of international politics that New Zealand has a very principled and clear position on international affairs that, while being different to those espoused by the USA, are recognised by other Nations and do not interfere with NZ’s willingness to be constructively involved on the world stage.
    To announce that Key favours the Republican positions is to give credibility to the English position that” the world needs a US president who will pull the trigger.” – that is who will take war were ever he thinks deserves one. Mind you, judging by the ACT pamphlets I’ve received it would appear that Mr. Key is merely echoing the paranoia of the canary one – Rodney Hide.
    No thanks Mr. Key – if one needed an excuse not to vote National you have just given us one.

  14. Felix 16



  15. Felix 17


    Yeah I get that, I should have asked a slightly different question as we generally only take part in wars when we are invited to. When our participation has been in question, have the Nats ever said no?

    I’m only going by my hazy memory but I’d be interested to see if anyone has details on this.

    Also hs your comments keep disappearing today. Is anyone in your family fooling around with a Delorean?

  16. Ianmac 18

    Irascible: What great writing. I suppose John Key would not be so silly to actually say that, but the implications in English’s words reflect their possible Foreign Policy. For the usual commentators and MSM to dismiss the importance and accept the Key “Dirty Tricks” label, is a bit sad.

  17. higherstandard 19


    I see what you mean – bizarre ?

    Don’t see why disagreeing with a fatuous posting is worthy of censorship – ah well.

    [Tane: You were in breach of policy for reposting Whaleoil’s discredited smears against this site and its authors.]

  18. Quoth the Raven 20

    Mark – If you bothered to read this thread you’d see your question has already been answered –
    NZ policy is to support the United Nations.

    I, for one, have no wish to see that become “support the United States’ or “support anyone who might do a free trade deal’

    Have a read of this: The war party.

  19. Mark 21

    Quoth the Raven

    so its ok for Labour to support the United Nations but not National.

    Think about for a while before you respond

  20. Vinsin 22

    How long do you want me to think about it before i politely ask you to go back to bed – this just isn’t your day Mark, might as well put an end to it and catch some zzzzs. it’s ok to support a global council, yes, support national – it depends on the issue. If it’s sending troops to an illegal, unmandated, unwarranted war, then the answer is yes it’s ok to not support national.

  21. Mark 23


    dont get excited its benefit day tommorow.
    Helen sent the SAS to Afghanistan in a combat role.
    That had nothing to do with the UN but dont let facts get in the way

    [lprent: You are an ignorant idiot. They are NATO forces + others, requested by the UN.
    We have regular troops, plus probably the SAS there (they don’t advertise). I suspect that you meant to say Iraq or bearing in mind your understanding of world events – possibly Iran (1979?).
    Ok that makes you officially a troll (the benefit slur is a good sign), and a particularly stupid one. Lets hope that you never pass the genes on. Banned permanently.]

  22. milo 24

    The New Zealand SAS received a presidential citation for their excellent work in Afghanistan. This is an incredibly rare honour, even for US troops. I don’t think they got it for playing tiddlywinks.

    Captcha: 145th speculation

  23. higherstandard 25

    Tane ……….. what ?

  24. Felix 26

    hs, I sense time-travel paradox issues at play. I’m pretty sure your comment at 1.21 disappeared for a while too.

    Best check your photo album.

  25. Carol 27

    Whoooo. Key sounded really angry on One News tonight. Sounded like he was really shaken by that latest tape – almost like he was losing it. But who is he kidding with that talk of muck-raking, and blaming Labour when it clearly isn’t a Labour thing? Geez. What a hypocrit after all the attempts to smear Clark via Peters. And then uses the English tape to further attempt to smear Labour.

  26. Vinsin 28

    Tv3 inferred that there was a secret tape of Key that might be on the way. Duncan Garner put the screws on Key, which was great to see. Key’s statement smacks of irony doesn’t it?

    “I’m not going to get in the mud and roll around with a pig. I’ll leave the muck racking to Labour.”

  27. higherstandard 29

    Felix I suspect Batman, SP and the Mysterions all working against me.

  28. Carol 30

    “Roll around with a pig” – 🙂

    Oh dear – he really sounded like he lost it there. It’s not as if it was some muck-raking sex files. Geez. It’s actually something that’s central to policy issues. And he still tried to link National’s slogan of change to Obama’s – acoording to a clip I heard on Nat Rad. I mean, Key is soooo not like Obama. Obama can talk in depth about policies and politics, unlike Key who can only rehearse some slogans and superficial sound bites.

  29. higherstandard 31

    Carol neither John nor Helen are like Obama nor are they like McCain.

    Any people trying to spin that the election result in the USA will have any impact on the election result in NZ only shows that they have lost the plot.

  30. milo,
    The New Zealand SAS received a presidential citation for their excellent work in Afghanistan. This is an incredibly rare honour, even for US troops. I don’t think they got it for playing tiddlywinks.

    Clearly the grasp of such affairs eludes you. More likely than not that award came packaged in the ‘return to foreign relations’ that an earlier US administration (2000-04) had broken from in its ‘we’ll do Iraq with or without you call to the UN.’ In which a embassy row monicker named bolton went about undermining the global organisation with several very doubtful schemes of buying off the poorer nations with so-called aid. In return for which they would align votes with the united states’s position.

    Yes indeed, after such shenanigans the scoundrels had to press the honors somehow. Backstories always assist context.

    In the need of clarity I am not, you understand saying that such honors were undeserved..

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