web analytics

The racist tory edition

Written By: - Date published: 10:40 pm, May 14th, 2009 - 91 comments
Categories: racism - Tags:

In his blog, Colin Espiner asked: “But my question is this: National has known for months it was going to torpedo the tunnels. It knew this decision would kill its chances of winning Mt Albert. So why did no one tell Lee? And why did Key allow one of his new stars to stand in the first place?”
 
Simple. They planned to hold off the announcement if there looked like a chance of Lee winning. They decided (perhaps on polling) that there wasn’t a chance. In that equation, the Waterview announcement becomes a convenient excuse for Lee losing. They’re already running the line. They would have gotten away with it too, if it hadn’t been for that pesky Lee and her tendency to shoot her mouth off.

We’ve all been at a BBQ or something and heard a typical National voter waxing racist. Their MPs are the same. Difference is Lee did’t have the brains to keep her thoughts in her own head. At least we live in a country where public racism ruins political careers – John Carter, Shipley, Lockwood ‘small hands’ Smith (speaker, that’s a booby prize when you were going to be a senior minister), now Lee.

She’ll be third place in Mt Albert, you read it here first.

Norman is a much better communicator than Shearer in events and on TV but he’ll still be a distant second.

Speaking of tory racists. National knew that bringing Rankin into the Families Commission was like bringing a wrecking ball into the side of a building and they did it with the same purpose. Boy does she get to work fast. I don’t know if she’s even officially in the job yet and she’s already prompted Druis Barrett to resign from the Commission. Barrett won’t work with her after racist comments Rankin made last year.

Turia was happy to speak against having a racist pro-child beater on the Families Commission at first. Then National told her to be a good girl and follow collective responsibility. So she chickened out, mana intact. Turns out Turia was on the Cabinet Committee that approved Rankin’s appointment but said nothing against it at the time. What a hero.

91 comments on “The racist tory edition ”

  1. Pat 1

    Geez Zetitic writes so much BS its hard to know where to start…

    “We’ve all been at a BBQ or something and heard a typical National voter waxing racist. Their MPs are the same.”

    Is this meant to be a serious comment or some piss-poor attempt at satire?

    • calltoaccount 1.1

      Seems like a quite fair minded description to me! (It does actually remind me of too many BBQ Nat voters I have spent time being polite to.)

  2. Zetetic 2

    Geez Pat it can be whatever you want it to be. It’s your life.

    I know I’ve been at BBQs and weddings and sports events and cringed as some tory starts on a racist rant. Others have told me stories of the same. It’s happened to you too (unless you’re the one ranting?).

    Where do you think MPs come from? The MP stork? They’re products of their class, their communities, and they think the same.

    Look at the facts. Off the top of my head I could name four National MPs whose careers have been ruined by the fact that they exposed their racism within the last decade and a half. You think that’s all the racists among National MPs? Or only the ones that were dumb enough to be racist on the record?

    In fact, 4 out of what, not much more than a hundred Nat MPs in the last 15 years? Those that aren’t still going mostly faded away quietly or were unelected. That probably makes a racist outburst the most common way for a tory MP to end their career in disgrace.

  3. Anthony Karinski 3

    Got a feeling the Maori Party will be struggling soon. They seem to have silently accepted every policy disadvantaging Maori from the Nact government so far. For what return? Nada.

    Will be interesting to see who will capitalise and grab the Maori seats come next election. Labour is the obvious candidate, but the Greens may make inroads if Meteria Turei becomes the next co-leader. Especially if she puts on a good performance unifying Maori and Pakeha interests in the eyes of the voters.

  4. “We’ve all been at a BBQ or something and heard a typical National voter waxing racist.” and Labour ones too, even a Green one too (those foreigners who don’t know our values buying our assets).

    Racism appears across the political spectrum, it’s always filthy, Melissa Lee will have copped a fair share too. The proletariat is usually very quick to point fingers at people who are different and be sceptical of them, which is why in most countries fascist racist parties are full of poorly educated blue collar failures. The Labour Party after all relied on a party that pandered to this to be in power from 2005 to 2008 (like National did from 1996-1998).

    • Zetetic 4.1

      Libertyscott is right that the most racist party in our recent history is obviously NZ1.

      Saying ‘oh Labour did it too’ doesn’t work on me. Labour shouldn’t have relied on racists. That’s one reason I voted RAM (I’ld relate the main reason again but then QoT would tell me off for again not being PC enough. As if I don’t understand that being fat sucks. It was the visual juxtaposition, QoT. And the fact that the dude was not aware of it. I know his weight problems might have been glandular. It’s always glandular these days isn’t it. Even when the person hardly does any excerise and stuffs food in their mouth all day long we have to assume its glandular. And because of that nothing concerning their weight can ever be funny because its a medicial condition. Stuff all that, it looked funny, it’s not an attack on the guy, it’s not personal, it was just a funny visual juxtaposition.

      But you only have to look at that roll call of shame to know that racism is also endemic in National MPs. Remember those four are only the ones dumb enough to get caught on the record.

  5. bilbo 5

    Dear oh dear a D+ and a must try better after your first two efforts then you come up with this bile, I’d suggest you give up posting here and move into the comments section at what Lynn refers to as the sewer at Kiwiblog.

    • Pascal's bookie 5.1

      Who gave you of all people the right to say who should post here.

      You’re a fine one to talk anyway. Plagiarism, sexism, lies…

      Why did you change your handle any how? I don’t care, your writing style and predictable content give you away, it’s just politeness to say when you change pseudonym, that’s all.

    • Zetetic 5.2

      Thanks for the grade Biblbo. I give you two gold stars for arrogance in assuming that the Standardistas listen to you. You also get a super-duper silver star for avoiding the topic of institutional racism within National.

      Now we’ve all graded each other I hope we all feel affirmed.

      • bilbo 5.2.1

        UM well you and that odd chap PB clearly listen ………. if you’re going for the look of a nasty little biggot you’ve got it nailed.

        Reminds me a bit of Clinton Smith’s occasional rants about rich tory boys but at least these were rare and most of his posts were considered so far your batting 3 for 3 on the bile stakes.

        • Zetetic 5.2.1.1

          I settled on an acceptable level of .. directness … in my posts by taking a quick tour of rightwing blogs. I looked at the fifthy racist, anti-women, anti-gay, anti-poor material on offer and decided its about time you got some of what you give. But I toned it down a long way from what passes for normal on those righty blogs. This is a civilised blog and we don’t win by sinking to your level.

          Anyway Bilbo my next post is on Labour. It’s written in the same style. I bet you’ll be cheering me like a good little boy then.

  6. Ron 6

    As I watch the train wreck that is Melissa Lee, the appalling set up with the Transition Authority on Awk and Joyce’s mealy mouthed concern for the communities that will be munted by his road……..I keep hearing “True Colours”

  7. bilbo 7

    Are you a stalker or do you have something useful to say ?

  8. vto 8

    What on earth is racist about one group of people expressing their fear of another group of people? And you may want to ask yourself how that fear has come about.

    For fucks sake I heard on the national radio yesterday a story in the maori news celebrating their special extraordinary physical capabilities (you know, like being bigger and stronger mostly). Bloody racists. Why no stink about that story?

    Why the fuck do stories like that get free air time and no complaint when if there is a story about how they may have a warrior gene then all hell breaks loose and its labelled racist. Similarly, if the story is about some research which shows the white man has a bigger brain. Not allowed those stories, no no.

    The clammering calls of racism that jump about in this country are so tangled, compromised and hypocritical they are a fucking joke.

    • Tigger 8.1

      vto – so irrational fear of a class of people on account of their race isn’t racism any more?

      • vto 8.1.1

        Tigger, dont be tricky. Whether it is irrational or not is not the issue. Similarly, the fear is not “on account of their race” the fear is a fear of violence.

        Why do you suppose the asian community fears the PI community Tigger?

  9. Akldnut 9

    Zetetic – you missed out Don brash and his Orewa speech

    • Zetetic 9.1

      didn’t wreck his career, enhanced it. But yes the fact that he brought back National’s redneck base with racism tells us something.

  10. The Voice of Reason 10

    “What on earth is racist about one group of people expressing their fear of another group of people?”

    Are you kidding, VTO?

    I guess it depends on how you ‘express’ your fear. Expressing it verbally is offensive, expressing it physically is a hate crime, expressing it by killing folk within your own country or invading another country is a war crime.

    • bilbo 10.1

      Thank you for that stream of logic which strongly suggests that Zittty Tic is a literary (in the loosest sense) rascist.

    • vto 10.2

      “Expressing it verbally is offensive”. Are you kidding? I think a mature approach to these subjects is well overdue in this country.

      Or maybe they best not express it. Just like ignore it or something. I dunno, someone else work out how the asian community should deal with its fear of the PI community (among others).

      Someone (I know, how about the govt) should also draft some legislation which outlines what constitutes racism and what does not. Just so everyone knows like. Cause right now it is impossible to work out what is and isn’t racist from what goes on in this country. Seems some can be racist and some can’t … Colonisers equal holocausters equals ok. PI equal excessive violence equals not ok.

      • The Voice of Reason 10.2.1

        Well, no, I’m not kidding.

        There are laws against racial vilification, but I accept if you express your fear of others at, say, a White Power meeting, nobody in the room is likely to be offended. However, I don’t think that’s the kind of company you keep, VTO, so if you do choose to express your fear in say, a social occasion, there is every chance you will offend someone, whether you intend to or not.

        Freedom of expression has limits. And for good reason.

        • vto 10.2.1.1

          I understand the necessary limits on human interaction lest people take offence and things take a turn for the worse.

          My problem comes with the completely uneven application of that principle. Which is racist itself.

          Example: Tariana Turia was not labelled racist for comparing colonisers to holocausters. That is offensive and racist.

          Example: Lockwood Smith cannot apparently express a fact about the physical make up of a race (‘small hands’), yet the maori news yesterday can express a fact about the physical make up of a race (‘bigger stronger’).

          • forgetaboutthelastone 10.2.1.1.1

            It all depends on who is at a disadvantage. Racial minorities have suffered for some time from the effects of racial stereotyping. The majority race has hardly suffered at all from similar racial stereotyping.

            Some would like to say – “lets have racial equality starting from now and we can all just treat each other equally poorly and that would be fair.” But its not because there are past experiences that still effect racial minorities to this very day.

            Sure – racism against whitey still aint right – but whitey has had it so good for so long its like – “harden up” or “cry me a river” or whatever.

          • bilbo 10.2.1.1.2

            I’m still coming getting over the Norman incident in 1006.

          • vto 10.2.1.1.3

            forgetabouthtelastone, your argument leaves me entirely unconvinced. In fact somewhat hardened because your last sentence is exactly my point, you racist pig.

            so good on Lee for expressing an issue that is important to her community (safety from dangerous criminals), athough expressed in a very bad way.

            many people fear polynesians when they come across them. why? well you fullas work it out. i imagine you know but will simply refuse to acknowledge the elephant in the room.

            Poor old PI community can’t handle being told they are scary? Well to quote yourself back at you “”harden up’ or “cry me a river’ or whatever”

          • bilbo 10.2.1.1.4

            Bah 1006 what 1066 you fool.

          • forgetaboutthelastone 10.2.1.1.5

            Some polynesians may be scary for whatever reason – some whiteys may be scary for some other reasons – but a statement such as “Poor old PI community can’t handle being told they are scary?” insinuates that every single member of the PI community is scary which is obviously ridiculous and offensive. I’m sure that the PI community are aware that there are some among them that others might find intimidating for whatever reason – and that they would not have a problem with having that reality pointed out.

          • vto 10.2.1.1.6

            see what I mean forgetaboutthelastone? the entire racism issue is so mixed up and out of balance that it now lacks any credibillity when somebody cries “racist! racist!”

            people just roll their eyes and continue with their day…

          • bilbo 10.2.1.1.7

            “”Poor old PI community can’t handle being told they are scary?’ insinuates that every single member of the PI community is scary which is obviously ridiculous and offensive.”

            Yes which is the point that VTO was making in relation to the post by Zitty tit

            “We’ve all been at a BBQ or something and heard a typical National voter waxing racist. Their MPs are the same. Difference is Lee did’t have the brains to keep her thoughts in her own head. ”

            Pot kettle black and all that ……….

            Feck I must be racist calling that kettle and pot black methinks they should join a group and accuse me of a hate crime.

          • forgetaboutthelastone 10.2.1.1.8

            “We’ve all been at a BBQ or something and heard a typical National voter waxing racist. Their MPs are the same. Difference is Lee did’t have the brains to keep her thoughts in her own head. ‘

            Yes I could see how that could be really frustrating for you national voters who consider racism to not be a typical trait of yours or your peers. And you have every right to complain about it.

            But don’t expect people to make a big deal out of it because whitey can simply shrug it off and go about his normal privileged existence.

            People say bad things about others all the time and no one likes being the victim – but for some the effects can be more damaging than for others.

          • vto 10.2.1.1.9

            hey forgetabout… heard the one about being in a hole and digging?

            Great to hear that now anyone can legitimately be a racist provided the effects on the subject are, relatively, minor.

            ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

          • forgetaboutthelastone 10.2.1.1.10

            “Great to hear that now anyone can legitimately be a racist provided the effects on the subject are, relatively, minor.”

            I’m no saying that. I’m not excusing racism in any form. Just trying to explain why racism directed toward the majority might be treated differently (in the media for example) than racism directed at minorities.

          • bilbo 10.2.1.1.11

            Yes quite right because only “whitey” would vote National just like only “darkies” vote Labour what about those of us with just a touch of the tar brush about us how should we vote ?

            I’m getting very confused in between all the racist BBQs I keep getting invited to.

          • Zetetic 10.2.1.1.12

            You should vote in your class interests bilbo. Not superficial divides like race. Have you not been reading your Marx?

          • bilbo 10.2.1.1.13

            What is my class interest ?

            What is my class .. I am part state employee part private business employee and of mixed race can you please enlighten me ?

          • felix 10.2.1.1.14

            No, you should stay true and vote hobbit.

          • bilbo 10.2.1.1.15

            I was thinking Ent maybe ?

          • Pascal's bookie 10.2.1.1.16

            troll

          • felix 10.2.1.1.17

            Really set yourself up for that one, hs.

          • bilbo 10.2.1.1.18

            Not sure why the PB chap would want to call dibs on being a troll.

            Perhaps he might prefer to be considered a Barrow Wight.

        • Zetetic 10.2.1.2

          You’re working class. Here’s a clue. A party made up of and funded by the idle rich and wealthy owners of businesses are not going to govern in a way that looks after your interests. They will look after their own interests.

          Check out your tax cut compared to John Key’s or Rob Fyfe’s and you’ll see what I mean.

          Or work out what you would have to pay for comphrensive medical and income insurance in the event of an accident on the private market compared to what you pay for ACC.

  11. exbrethren 11

    Is the only point of this article to point and name-call?

    Zetetic you say you trawled the right wing blogs to obtain a level of directness and it seems this article descends a few rungs down towards that level.

    The Standard policy states “We are intolerant of people starting or continuing flamewars where there is little discussion or debate.” This article seems to go against that policy.

    Disappointing to see this published.

  12. Daveski 12

    Where are SP and Tane when we need them? I’m not sure if it’s the result of being in opposition or the loss of the core and able contributors, but standards are dropping.

    Playing the race card with so little to connect the accusation with the core content is both pathetic and regrettable. It’s cartoon blogging at its worst.

    • lprent 12.1

      It is opinion. That is what the posters write here. You’re welcome to say why you think that it is wrong – in your opinion. However simply saying that the ‘standards’ are dropping doesn’t really cut it.

      • Daveski 12.1.1

        The standards are dropping was an attempt at a pun. Obviously not a good one.

        I will absolutely stand up for the Standard for the fact that largely dissent is tolerated and to a large extent welcomed and encouraged. I’m sure others from the right who are regulars here would say the same thing.

        It is undoubtedly only my opinion but this is a crap post. Sadly, the author’s equally pathetic comment below supports my opinion.

        Eddie … so is this some type of dog whistling.

        Anyway, I’m getting a little fired up so I’d better settle down and take a pill. The funny thing is that the Nats in particular have had their worst week in office since the election and there is so much material to legitimately attack the Nats without this type of approach.

        It’s almost like I’m defending a noble vision of the Standard … I need help 🙂

        • lprent 12.1.1.1

          This post doesn’t get close to what I’d step in and wrap people over the knuckles for. It has a point. Sure it steps on the sensibilities of some people, but frankly it needed to. When I read it it didn’t even twitch WTF instincts.

          Just look at the un-gagged views of the Maori Party over the appointment.

          BTW: The last post that I pulled was back in 2007 because it was pointless satire. Tane and Irish edited a couple of posts in 2008 to remove offensive paragraphs (before I got to them). The h-fee one is the last one that got published that really shouldn’t have been – but I wasn’t really involved in that discussion,

          Since then the posts have either been acceptable or gotten discussion while still being edited and visible by other contributors. A few of mine have been canned through that process. Most recently a post entitled “Wingnuts and moonbats – simple thinkers, intolerant of others” which was discussed in the background and dumped as being too inflammatory.

          There are currently just under 200 posts that have been discarded for various reasons, mostly being unable to figure out how to make the post work. Not bad when you consider that we have 2846 posts published since the site started, and the diversity of opinions amongst the writers.

    • Eddie 12.2

      Daveski. I think you’re confused about what ‘playing the race card’ means. Playing the race card would be saying ‘Lee can’t be racist because she’s Asian’ or ‘as an Asian Lee knows all about being a victim of racism’.

      We’re giving Zetetic a bit of a leash to see how it goes. If it goes too far we’ll ask for some restraint. It’s a loose collective but we also have an image to protect and we’ll strike the balance somewhere if need be. Currently, I think you’re all playing right into Zetetic’s hands. This is exactly the reaction that post wanted – rightwingers leaping to the defence of people who have made racist comments or pointedly trying to avoid the topic while pleading for Zetetic to go away.

      You might want to look up the meaning of the word. One might say Zetetic appears to be seeking to stir you up and see what comes out of your mouths.

      • vto 12.2.1

        “This is exactly the reaction that post wanted – rightwingers leaping to the defence of people who have made racist comments or pointedly trying to avoid the topic while pleading for Zetetic to go away.”

        Ha ha you guys are a joke.

        From the posts on here the only possible conclusion that can be reached is that it is the left who are in fact the best racists, as witnessed by the highly selective nature of their choice as to what constitutes racism. See fogetaboutthelastone’s posits for just one example.

        The left cannot see the wood for the trees on this issue.

        • Zetetic 12.2.1.1

          Turia has made racist comments too. She’s not on the left. We wouldn’t have that sellout in RAM.

  13. Zetetic 13

    Look at that. Despite bluster and whingeing from some quarters (don’t worry Daveski, I’ve called her and your mummy will be along to pick you up shortly) a real passionate debate about racism has developed.

    It warms me cockles so it does.

    Plus vto is in the position of trying to defend racists and getting a beating. Which is nice.

    • bilbo 13.1

      Yes clearly you were only wanting to stir up some debate …………. wasn’t that what Don Brash said … oh that’s right it’s not the same apparently he’s a tory racist and you’re a tory hating racist completely different.

      • Zetetic 13.1.1

        I’m not a racist. Tory hating but not a racist. What have I said that’s racist? Nothing. Tories aren’t a race.

        • Phil 13.1.1.1

          Discrimination based on race.
          Discrimination based on political view.
          Discrimination based on gender and or sexual orientation.

          One of these things is not like the other…?

          Nope, they’re all the same.

  14. vto 14

    Ha ha zitty, I was after a good debate on racism too as it is an issue which is, as I keep saying, so tangled convoluted compromised and saturated in hypocrisy that it is meaningless in NZ today.

    Plus I aint trying to defend racists. Idiot. I am trying to highlight the tangled convoluted compromised and hypocrisy-saturated nature of the issue. And the best to do that is simply repeat back to the left its own twaddle. This thread is full of delicious examples of selective racism by so-called liberals.

    Oh, and I certainly dont feel like I’m taking a beating. Quite the reverse actually.

    keep it up

    • Zetetic 14.1

      And don’t you feel alive vto? Isn’t it great?

      Coming in here, getting your arse kicked in everyone’s eyes but your own.

      Walking away charged up with testosterone and feeling like you’ve given the buggers what for.

      It’s so much fun. And that’s why, despite the whining from some, you keep coming back. That’s the fun of politics and blogging.

      • vto 14.1.1

        ha ha what? I dont think thats quite right. How did you sneak this post in here without me seeing? The old standard used to do this – sneak in an earlier post sub-post.

  15. Maynard J 15

    I think you all need a hand.

    http://dictionary.cambridge.org/results.asp?dict=B&searchword=racism

    racism Show phonetics
    noun [U] (UK OLD-FASHIONED racialism) DISAPPROVING
    the belief that people’s qualities are influenced by their race and that the members of other races are not as good as the members of your own, or the resulting unfair treatment of members of other races

    racist
    noun [C] (UK OLD-FASHIONED racialist) DISAPPROVING
    someone who believes that other races are not as good as their own and therefore treats them unfairly

    Now, to take it back to vto: “What on earth is racist about one group of people expressing their fear of another group of people? ”

    Short answer: When the group is selected by race, it is racist. By definition. Simple enough to me.

  16. bilbo 16

    “I think you all need a hand”

    I think a short slap to the forehead for Zitty will do the trick

  17. vto 17

    ok, ok, a point of sorts Mr M J, that was a part windup to get the debate going.

    It follows then that in fact so-called “racism” cannot be that bad. Surely the worse thing is that one group of people fears another group of people, not how they get identified. (which is part of a maturity that needs to come with race issues).

    The two groups could be different sports teams, say the blues fear the reds. Nobody would care two hoots about how they were identified. Or two different religions. Or two different political beliefs. Or two different car clubs ffs.

    The means of identification is of less import than the issue at stake (fear and safety).

    The problem of course comes when this means of identification is extended by others or used for other hurtful purposes … etc.

    All of which is yet more evidence of how tangledconvolutedcompromisedandhypocrisysaturated race is as an issue in NZ. It lacks maturity.

  18. vto 18

    Actually M J the problems seem to occur due to your definition “the belief that people?s qualities are influenced by their race and that the members of other races are not as good as the members of your own, or the resulting unfair treatment of members of other races”.

    The first part is difficult to deny, namely that peoples qualities are influenced by their race. In fact that is embraced by many, if not all. People like the positive influences and scream racism when the discussion turns to the negatives (here being possible case in point).

    The second part about belief in superiority is quite different.

    Mixing the two parts is probably the cause of most of the problems about race accusations and debate. They need to be split – need a new word to describe the belief that people’s qualities can be influenced by their race, because that is not necessarily bad.

  19. Pascal's bookie 19

    “It follows then that in fact so-called “racism’ cannot be that bad.”

    though you weren’t defending racism…

    “Surely the worse thing is that one group of people fears another group of people, not how they get identified. (which is part of a maturity that needs to come with race issues).”

    There is no problem with one group of people fearing another group of people based on the fact that the latter group is identified by the fact that they are thieves. There is something wrong with fearing them on the basis of thinking that ‘racial group x has quality y’. So how the group is identified is exactly the issue that determines whether the fear is legitimate. Surely?

    EDIT: crossposted, might waste some more time on this tonight, but think about what type of qualities are determined by ‘race’. Is criminality really one?

    • vto 19.1

      “but think about what type of qualities are determined by ‘race’. Is criminality really one?”

      Well it is on the basis of gender going by prison stats, and that’s accepted by all without accusations of sexism. I don’t know, what do the prison stats on crime in relation to race come up with?

  20. vto 20

    Well yes P’s B you’re right. Lee should have said perhaps “thieves from South Auckland” rather than whatever it was she said “South Aucklanders in general”.

    But again it highlights how messy the whole issue is. It should be permissible to state ‘race x has these attributes’.

    It should not be permissible to misuse and abuse that though of course. And it is precisely at this point imo that the problems start and it clouds the fact that it should be permissible to state things about a race.

    The two need separating.

    Or do the left think that attributes attributable to race should not be discussed or acknowledged? Just ignored or something? Which would of course be both unrealistic and victorian.

    • Pascal's bookie 20.1

      One quick one, it’s permissable as all fuck to say whatever the hell you want.

      That most definatly includes calling someone a racist if that’s what you think they are.

      If they then want to explain why they aint a racist, that’s all good.

      If they also want to say, ‘why yes I am a racist thank you very much’. That’s cool wit me too. Least so I know where they stand.

      It’s the saying ‘I am not a racist’, but not explaining but instead crying that they are being victimised that pisses me off.

  21. r0b 21

    I’m a little bit surprised to see vto here dispensing wisdom on the topic of racism given his record in this respect.

    • vto 21.1

      Oh come on r0b, that is pathetic andyou know it. If that is the best you got against me then you should have just stayed in bed.

    • felix 21.2

      vto that was some horrible bigoted racist stereotyping shit. Was it supposed to be a joke or something?

      • vto 21.2.1

        of course it was felix (well not a joke ha ha), thats why r0b’s post was pathetic.

        it was in response to the equally horrible bigoted racist stereotyping shit that that post posted.

  22. Maynard J 22

    A reply to vto, in part.

    Fundametally, you can choose whether you are part of a sports team, or a political party, but you can’t choose your ethnicity or gender.

    So I can (quite rightly) say that Milwall fans are a bunch of ‘ooligans and thugs, but I can’t say that [unnamed racial group] are ‘ooligans and thugs.

    That is because self-selecting groups tend to have definable statistical correlations based on a causative factor. This causative factor is inherent in the self selection. The causative factor is not inherent in the auto-selection of groups for which we may not discriminate against (without being branded racist, sexist).

    To elaborate (hypothetically). Milwall fans might be more violent because they originate from a rough part of town, and many also support the club because they are attracted to the violence inherent in being a Milwall fan. The correlation is also causation.

    [unnamed racial group] might also be more violent, but this is not caused by their being in that group (unless you want to start talking about ‘warrior genes’ and eugenics, but that’s something best left at the door right now) but by qualities caused to that group by external factors – thus we may have correlation but not causation.

    Essentially, when you are being racist or sexist or any other -ist, you are attacking a group without warrant, for the fact of the group itself is not the cause of the factor you are criticising. An obvious exception is that you’re allowed to tell people to use sunblock at varying levels, because some people’s skin colour, as determined genetically, affords them a greater degree of protection from the sun. In that case, the correlation (sun protection) is causative – it occurs by race. If you want to make that type of argument, though, you need some strong evidence that the causative factor is inherent in the group, as opposed to some correlating factor.

    Conclusion: it is obvious when someone is being racist. Ask yourself “Is the defined quality caused by the factor in question?” remembering to carefully distinguish between causation and correlation.

    • vto 22.1

      Agreed M J and have said similar previously, though nowhere near as eloquently. But I don’t know that the choice aspect is so crucial. Bigoted generalisations still form the basis of abuse whether footy teams or races, no matter which rough part of town they inhabit.

      As you say “attacking a group without warrant”. So, tangent, is the fear the asian community has of the PI community a causative thingy? Interesting interesting. People in NZ are too scared to try and answer that for fear of being labelled racist. Which refleects that lack of maturity referred to when it comes to race issues.

      • Maynard J 22.1.1

        “is the fear the asian community has of the PI community a causative thingy?”

        By my definition above, no, it is not the fact that they are Pacific Islanders that causes the fear. It is (making obvious assumptions here) the actions of members of that ethnicity that case the fear, so we have correlation only. Why the correlation?

        You have to look into the cause of those actions – and that would be the thing to get riled at. Say it is poverty or a lack of education or opportunity – it is harder to rail against the oppressed or struggling than it is to be against a racial group.

        There is nothing to be scared of in that analysis.

        But (and I think this starts to answer gingercrush’s opinion below) can the left or right claim the other has a monopoly on the simple analysis (correlation without causation) that is racist? That is harder to prove.

        You could argue the law and order topic as evidenced by Lee’s recent actions tend to do this – it is certainly the right’s barrow to push.

        Note that you could also argue that trying to ‘excuse’ people (or groups/’races’) for crime due to the reasons I gave above is a left wing trait, often labelled as PC.

  23. Ron 23

    “Are you a stalker or do you have something useful to say ?”
    Bilbo, were you asking this of me?
    Stalker? – if that means I don’t spend my entire day on here – well, yes, I suppose I am.
    Useful?!? You do READ the posts here, don’t you? I think my contribution was as “useful” as many.
    .

    • Pascal's bookie 23.1

      Nah that was aimed at me.

      He missed because he’s an idiot.

      The funny thing he is he tried to out me by googling my handle and posting the first photo he could find. Which was of some young American guy called robert (I think) who has/had a blog titled “Pascal’s bookie”.

      Which makes Bilbo a stalker, but a failure at it.

      He’s good at inventing new forms of stupid though. Just watch.

  24. gingercrush 24

    I don’t like this thread. I don’t like posts that blatantly accuse Tories of being racist and I particularly don’t like the BBQ line. I’ve met some very racist Labour voters and even racist Green Voters. Of course I’ve met National voters that are racist. Likewise, I’ve seen Labour and Green voters that have been sexst. I’ve seen dole bludgers of all political affiliations. I even know one particular person who use to vote Alliance that owned a very small business and treated his workers like shit.

    For the majority of Labour and National voters. There isn’t a huge difference. We might believe in some things differently. One might favour Tax Cuts the other doesn’t. One may want more money put into education and health while the other favours more personal responsibility. I know a number of people that vote for parties that I wouldn’t have thought reflected their principles. I also know that the vast amount of people I have met don’t really affiliate themselves with any political party. I would presume they would vote either Labour or National. But for many people, politics is just something they’ll watch the news now and then and they’ll vote every three years. That doesn’t mean they are ignorant or anything. Just they would rather involve themselves in different things.

    • gingercrush 24.1

      I also live in Christchurch which is supposedly a racist city and rather conservative. I don’t actually believe either is true and its much like impressions of crime in Chirstchurch. Statistically we aren’t a significantly crime-ridden city. Christchurch is also dominantly made-up of Centre-left voters.

      • bilbo 24.1.1

        Racism is despicable unless it’s directed against ginga’s they scare the living crap out of me with their bright orange hair and freckles.

      • Maynard J 24.1.2

        gingercrush, I sort of wandered into a comment on what you have written in a post to vto above, if you’re interested. 4:22.

        • gingercrush 24.1.2.1

          Noted. Though I wasn’t exactly referring to what Lee said. The less said about what she said the better. Very disappointing and rather stupid is what I think of her.

          • Maynard J 24.1.2.1.1

            So I was agreeing with you – I don’t like the blanket branding of ‘tories’ as ‘racist’ at all. If you’re going to do it, say which tories and why, and put up a decent explanation. And it needs to be pretty strong as do all statements saying all X’s are Y.

            Someone in another section made an interesting comment, that if all you’re given is a sledgehammer it is hard to not break things (along those lines). I don’t know whether Lee or National decided that they would push the law and order thing in the byelection, but I have come to see it as a clumsy attempt to turn the debate to that topic. There were hints of it during the Q & A, none so obviously manifested of course, but take another look and you will see what I mean.

            If I were a National supporter, my main question would be directed at the Party, asking whose strategy it was to push that topic so hard. Given there were hints of it over a week, there has been a failing in the party leadership or strategy team in not preventing the real dud call.

  25. Maynard J 25

    moved in reply above… sry

  26. mike 26

    If fuckwits like Zetitic are the new Tane then this blog is down the shitter faster than I thought.
    What a disgusting load of bile this thread is

Recent Comments

Recent Posts

  • Govt purchases enough Pfizer vaccines for whole country
    The Government has guaranteed that every New Zealander will have access to the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine, after securing an additional 8.5 million doses, Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern announced today. “The Government has signed an advance purchase agreement for 8.5 million additional doses, enough to vaccinate 4.25 million people. The vaccines are ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    21 mins ago
  • Celebrating Women in our COVID response – International Women’s Day 2021
    “This International Women’s Day I acknowledge the women who have been crucial in our COVID-19 recovery – our scientists, healthcare professionals, and essential workers – and everyone who is working every day to help women and girls achieve their potential in Aotearoa New Zealand,” says Minister for Women Jan Tinetti ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 hours ago
  • $950k funding boost for World Conference on Women and Sport
    An additional $950,000 investment has been made to support New Zealand’s hosting of the 8th World Conference of the International Working Group on Women in Sport (IWG) in Auckland in 2022. The funding comes from the $265 million Sport Recovery Package and is for Women in Sport Aotearoa, Ngā Wāhine ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 hours ago
  • Celebrating Children’s Day / Te Rā o Ngā Tamariki
    Today marks Children’s Day / Te Rā o Ngā Tamariki and the Minister for Children, Kelvin Davis is asking all New Zealanders to think about their responsibility to support the lives of the tamariki in their communities and to make this a special day for celebrating them. Children’s Day / ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago
  • Initial Mental Health and Wellbeing Commission report shows progress
    Health Minister Andrew Little welcomes the Initial Mental Health and Wellbeing Commission’s assessment that transformation of New Zealand’s approach to mental health and addiction is underway. “This is an important step in the Government’s work to provide better and equitable mental health and wellbeing outcomes for all people in New ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Over $300m returned to COVID-hit travellers
    The Government’s Consumer Travel Reimbursement Scheme has helped return over $352 million of refunds and credits to New Zealanders who had overseas travel cancelled due to COVID-19, Consumer Affairs Minister David Clark says. “Working with the travel sector, we are helping New Zealanders retrieve the money owed to them by ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Hundreds more schools join free lunches programme
    An additional 88,000 students in 322 schools and kura across the country have started the school year with a regular lunch on the menu, thanks to the Government’s Ka Ora, Ka Ako Healthy School Lunches programme. They join 42,000 students already receiving weekday lunches under the scheme, which launched last ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Govt’s balanced economic approach reflected in Crown accounts
    New Zealand’s economic recovery has again been reflected in the Government’s books, which are in better shape than expected. The Crown accounts for the seven months to the end of January 2021 were better than forecast in the Half Year Economic and Fiscal Update (HYEFU). The operating balance before gains ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Over half of border workforce receive first vaccinations
    More than half of New Zealand’s estimated 12,000 border workforce have now received their first vaccinations, as a third batch of vaccines arrive in the country, COVID-19 Response Minister Chris Hipkins says. As of midnight Tuesday, a total of 9,431 people had received their first doses. More than 70 percent ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Boost in funding to deliver jobs while restoring Central Otago’s lakes and waterways
    The Government is significantly increasing its investment in restoring Central Otago’s waterways while at the same time delivering jobs to the region hard-hit by the economic impact of Covid-19, says Land Information Minister, Damien O’Connor.   Mr O’Connor says two new community projects under the Jobs for Nature funding programme will ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Next stage of COVID-19 support for business and workers
    The Government has confirmed details of COVID-19 support for business and workers following the increased alert levels due to a resurgence of the virus over the weekend. Following two new community cases of COVID-19, Auckland moved to Alert Level 3 and the rest of New Zealand moved to Alert Level ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Govt committed to hosting Rugby World Cup
    The Government remains committed to hosting the Women’s Rugby World Cup in New Zealand in 2022 should a decision be made by World Rugby this weekend to postpone this year’s tournament. World Rugby is recommending the event be postponed until next year due to COVID-19, with a final decision to ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Support Available for Communities affected by COVID-19
    Community and social service support providers have again swung into action to help people and families affected by the current COVID-19 alert levels. “The Government recognises that in many instances social service, community, iwi and Whānau Ora organisations are best placed to provide vital support to the communities impacted by ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Govt announces review into PHARMAC
    The Government is following through on an election promise to conduct an independent review into PHARMAC, Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern and Health Minister Andrew Little announced today. The Review will focus on two areas: How well PHARMAC performs against its current objectives and whether and how its performance against these ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Impressive response to DOC scholarship programme
    Some of the country’s most forward-thinking early-career conservationists are among recipients of a new scholarship aimed at supporting a new generation of biodiversity champions, Conservation Minister Kiri Allan says. The Department of Conservation (DOC) has awarded one-year postgraduate research scholarships of $15,000 to ten Masters students in the natural ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 days ago
  • Speech to ANZLF Virtual Indigenous Business Trade and Connections Event
    I acknowledge our whānau overseas, joining us from Te Whenua Moemoeā, and I wish to pay respects to their elders past, present, and emerging. Thank you for the opportunity to speak with you all today. I am very pleased to be part of the conversation on Indigenous business, and part ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Main benefits to increase in line with wages
    Social Development and Employment Minister Carmel Sepuloni announced today that main benefits will increase by 3.1 percent on 1 April, in line with the rise in the average wage. The Government announced changes to the annual adjustment of main benefits in Budget 2019, indexing main benefit increases to the average ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Deed of Settlement signed with Ngāti Maru (Taranaki)
    A Deed of Settlement has been signed between Ngāti Maru and the Crown settling the iwi’s historical Treaty of Waitangi claims, Minister for Treaty of Waitangi Negotiations Andrew Little announced today. The Ngāti Maru rohe is centred on the inland Waitara River valley, east to the Whanganui River and its ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Support in place for people connected to Auckland COVID-19 cases
    With a suite of Government income support packages available, Minister for Social Development and Employment Carmel Sepuloni is encouraging people, and businesses, connected to the recent Auckland COVID-19 cases to check the Work and Income website if they’ve been impacted by the need to self-isolate. “If you are required to ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Statement on passing of former PNG PM Sir Michael Somare
    Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern has expressed her condolences at the passing of long-serving former Prime Minister of Papua New Guinea, Grand Chief Sir Michael Somare. “Our thoughts are with Lady Veronica Somare and family, Prime Minister James Marape and the people of Papua New Guinea during this time of great ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Speech to the National Māori Housing Conference 2021
    E te tī, e te tā  Tēnei te mihi maioha ki a koutou  Ki te whenua e takoto nei  Ki te rangi e tū iho nei  Ki a tātou e tau nei  Tēnā tātou.  It’s great to be with you today, along with some of the ministerial housing team; Hon Peeni Henare, the ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Drone project to aid protection of Māui dolphin
    The Government is backing a new project to use drone technology to transform our understanding and protection of the Māui dolphin, Aotearoa’s most endangered dolphin.    “The project is just one part of the Government’s plan to save the Māui dolphin. We are committed to protecting this treasure,” Oceans and Fisheries ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • New water regulator board announced as major Government reform moves forward
    Major water reform has taken a step closer with the appointment of the inaugural board of the Taumata Arowai water services regulator, Hon Nanaia Mahuta says. Former Director General of Health and respected public health specialist Dame Karen Poutasi will chair the inaugural board of Crown agency Taumata Arowai. “Dame ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • North Auckland gets public transport upgrade
    The newly completed Hibiscus Coast Bus Station will help people make better transport choices to help ease congestion and benefit the environment, Transport Minister Michael Wood and Auckland Mayor Phil Goff said today. Michael Wood and Phil Goff officially opened the Hibiscus Coast Bus Station which sits just off the ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Supporting work to protect Northland reserve
    New funding announced by Conservation Minister Kiri Allan today will provide work and help protect the unique values of Northland’s Te Ārai Nature Reserve for future generations. Te Ārai is culturally important to Te Aupōuri as the last resting place of the spirits before they depart to Te Rerenga Wairua. ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Critical step to new housing deal for Pacific communities
      Today the Government has taken a key step to support Pacific people to becoming Community Housing providers, says the Minister for Pacific Peoples, Aupito William Sio. “This will be great news for Pacific communities with the decision to provide Pacific Financial Capability Grant funding and a tender process to ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Consultation opens on proposed Bay of Islands marine mammal sanctuary
    Conservation Minister Kiri Allan is encouraging New Zealanders to have their say on a proposed marine mammal sanctuary to address the rapid decline of bottlenose dolphins in Te Pēwhairangi, the Bay of Islands. The proposal, developed jointly with Ngā Hapū o te Pēwhairangi, would protect all marine mammals of the ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • Three District Court Judges appointed
    Attorney-General David Parker today announced the appointment of three new District Court Judges.    Two of the appointees will take up their roles on 1 April, replacing sitting Judges who have reached retirement age.     Kirsten Lummis, lawyer of Auckland has been appointed as a District Court Judge with jury jurisdiction to ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • Government announces list of life-shortening conditions guaranteeing early KiwiSaver access
    Government announces list of life-shortening conditions guaranteeing early KiwiSaver access The Government changed the KiwiSaver rules in 2019 so people with life-shortening congenital conditions can withdraw their savings early The four conditions guaranteed early access are – down syndrome, cerebral palsy, Huntington’s disease and fetal alcohol spectrum disorder An alternative ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • Reserve Bank to take account of housing in decision making
    The Reserve Bank is now required to consider the impact on housing when making monetary and financial policy decisions, Grant Robertson announced today. Changes have been made to the Bank’s Monetary Policy Committee’s remit requiring it to take into account government policy relating to more sustainable house prices, while working ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • Investment to reduce cochlear implant waitlist
    The Labour Government will invest $6 million for 70 additional adult cochlear implants this year to significantly reduce the historical waitlist, Health Minister Andrew Little says. “Cochlear implants are life changing for kiwis who suffer from severe hearing loss. As well as improving an individual’s hearing, they open doors to ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • Māori wards Bill passes third reading
    The Local Electoral (Māori Wards and Māori Constituencies) Amendment Bill passed its third reading today and will become law, Minister of Local Government Hon Nanaia Mahuta says. “This is a significant step forward for Māori representation in local government. We know how important it is to have diversity around ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • Government delivers 1,000 more transitional housing places
    The Government has added 1,000 more transitional housing places as promised under the Aotearoa New Zealand Homelessness Action Plan (HAP), launched one year ago. Minister of Housing Megan Woods says the milestone supports the Government’s priority to ensure every New Zealander has warm, dry, secure housing. “Transitional housing provides people ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • Second batch of Pfizer/BioNTech doses arrives safely – as the first vaccinations take place in the...
    A second batch of Pfizer/BioNTech vaccines arrived safely yesterday at Auckland International Airport, COVID-19 Response Minister Chris Hipkins says. “This shipment contained about 76,000 doses, and follows our first shipment of 60,000 doses that arrived last week. We expect further shipments of vaccine over the coming weeks,” Chris Hipkins said. ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • $18 million for creative spaces to make arts more accessible
    The Minister for Arts, Culture and Heritage Carmel Sepuloni has today announced $18 million to support creative spaces. Creative spaces are places in the community where people with mental health needs, disabled people, and those looking for social connection, are welcomed and supported to practice and participate in the arts ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • Moriori Claims Settlement Bill passes first reading
    Treaty of Waitangi Negotiations Minister Andrew Little today welcomed Moriori to Parliament to witness the first reading of the Moriori Claims Settlement Bill. “This bill is the culmination of years of dedication and hard work from all the parties involved. “I am delighted to reach this significant milestone today,” Andrew ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • Government action reduces child poverty
    22,400 fewer children experiencing material hardship 45,400 fewer children in low income households on after-housing costs measure After-housing costs target achieved a year ahead of schedule Government action has seen child poverty reduce against all nine official measures compared to the baseline year, Prime Minister and Minister for Child Poverty ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • Entries open for the 2021 Prime Minister’s Education Excellence Awards
    It’s time to recognise the outstanding work early learning services, kōhanga reo, schools and kura do to support children and young people to succeed, Minister of Education Chris Hipkins says. The 2021 Prime Minister’s Education Excellence Awards are now open through until April 16. “The past year has reminded us ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • Jobs for Nature benefits three projects
    Three new Jobs for Nature projects will help nature thrive in the Bay of Plenty and keep local people in work says Conservation Minister Kiri Allan. “Up to 30 people will be employed in the projects, which are aimed at boosting local conservation efforts, enhancing some of the region’s most ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • Improvements to the Holidays Act on the way
    The Government has accepted all of the Holidays Act Taskforce’s recommended changes, which will provide certainty to employers and help employees receive their leave entitlements, Workplace Relations and Safety Minister Michael Wood announced today. Michael Wood said the Government established the Holidays Act Taskforce to help address challenges with the ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago