web analytics

The racist tory edition

Written By: - Date published: 10:40 pm, May 14th, 2009 - 91 comments
Categories: racism - Tags:

In his blog, Colin Espiner asked: “But my question is this: National has known for months it was going to torpedo the tunnels. It knew this decision would kill its chances of winning Mt Albert. So why did no one tell Lee? And why did Key allow one of his new stars to stand in the first place?”
 
Simple. They planned to hold off the announcement if there looked like a chance of Lee winning. They decided (perhaps on polling) that there wasn’t a chance. In that equation, the Waterview announcement becomes a convenient excuse for Lee losing. They’re already running the line. They would have gotten away with it too, if it hadn’t been for that pesky Lee and her tendency to shoot her mouth off.

We’ve all been at a BBQ or something and heard a typical National voter waxing racist. Their MPs are the same. Difference is Lee did’t have the brains to keep her thoughts in her own head. At least we live in a country where public racism ruins political careers – John Carter, Shipley, Lockwood ‘small hands’ Smith (speaker, that’s a booby prize when you were going to be a senior minister), now Lee.

She’ll be third place in Mt Albert, you read it here first.

Norman is a much better communicator than Shearer in events and on TV but he’ll still be a distant second.

Speaking of tory racists. National knew that bringing Rankin into the Families Commission was like bringing a wrecking ball into the side of a building and they did it with the same purpose. Boy does she get to work fast. I don’t know if she’s even officially in the job yet and she’s already prompted Druis Barrett to resign from the Commission. Barrett won’t work with her after racist comments Rankin made last year.

Turia was happy to speak against having a racist pro-child beater on the Families Commission at first. Then National told her to be a good girl and follow collective responsibility. So she chickened out, mana intact. Turns out Turia was on the Cabinet Committee that approved Rankin’s appointment but said nothing against it at the time. What a hero.

91 comments on “The racist tory edition ”

  1. Pat 1

    Geez Zetitic writes so much BS its hard to know where to start…

    “We’ve all been at a BBQ or something and heard a typical National voter waxing racist. Their MPs are the same.”

    Is this meant to be a serious comment or some piss-poor attempt at satire?

    • calltoaccount 1.1

      Seems like a quite fair minded description to me! (It does actually remind me of too many BBQ Nat voters I have spent time being polite to.)

  2. Zetetic 2

    Geez Pat it can be whatever you want it to be. It’s your life.

    I know I’ve been at BBQs and weddings and sports events and cringed as some tory starts on a racist rant. Others have told me stories of the same. It’s happened to you too (unless you’re the one ranting?).

    Where do you think MPs come from? The MP stork? They’re products of their class, their communities, and they think the same.

    Look at the facts. Off the top of my head I could name four National MPs whose careers have been ruined by the fact that they exposed their racism within the last decade and a half. You think that’s all the racists among National MPs? Or only the ones that were dumb enough to be racist on the record?

    In fact, 4 out of what, not much more than a hundred Nat MPs in the last 15 years? Those that aren’t still going mostly faded away quietly or were unelected. That probably makes a racist outburst the most common way for a tory MP to end their career in disgrace.

  3. Anthony Karinski 3

    Got a feeling the Maori Party will be struggling soon. They seem to have silently accepted every policy disadvantaging Maori from the Nact government so far. For what return? Nada.

    Will be interesting to see who will capitalise and grab the Maori seats come next election. Labour is the obvious candidate, but the Greens may make inroads if Meteria Turei becomes the next co-leader. Especially if she puts on a good performance unifying Maori and Pakeha interests in the eyes of the voters.

  4. “We’ve all been at a BBQ or something and heard a typical National voter waxing racist.” and Labour ones too, even a Green one too (those foreigners who don’t know our values buying our assets).

    Racism appears across the political spectrum, it’s always filthy, Melissa Lee will have copped a fair share too. The proletariat is usually very quick to point fingers at people who are different and be sceptical of them, which is why in most countries fascist racist parties are full of poorly educated blue collar failures. The Labour Party after all relied on a party that pandered to this to be in power from 2005 to 2008 (like National did from 1996-1998).

    • Zetetic 4.1

      Libertyscott is right that the most racist party in our recent history is obviously NZ1.

      Saying ‘oh Labour did it too’ doesn’t work on me. Labour shouldn’t have relied on racists. That’s one reason I voted RAM (I’ld relate the main reason again but then QoT would tell me off for again not being PC enough. As if I don’t understand that being fat sucks. It was the visual juxtaposition, QoT. And the fact that the dude was not aware of it. I know his weight problems might have been glandular. It’s always glandular these days isn’t it. Even when the person hardly does any excerise and stuffs food in their mouth all day long we have to assume its glandular. And because of that nothing concerning their weight can ever be funny because its a medicial condition. Stuff all that, it looked funny, it’s not an attack on the guy, it’s not personal, it was just a funny visual juxtaposition.

      But you only have to look at that roll call of shame to know that racism is also endemic in National MPs. Remember those four are only the ones dumb enough to get caught on the record.

  5. bilbo 5

    Dear oh dear a D+ and a must try better after your first two efforts then you come up with this bile, I’d suggest you give up posting here and move into the comments section at what Lynn refers to as the sewer at Kiwiblog.

    • Pascal's bookie 5.1

      Who gave you of all people the right to say who should post here.

      You’re a fine one to talk anyway. Plagiarism, sexism, lies…

      Why did you change your handle any how? I don’t care, your writing style and predictable content give you away, it’s just politeness to say when you change pseudonym, that’s all.

    • Zetetic 5.2

      Thanks for the grade Biblbo. I give you two gold stars for arrogance in assuming that the Standardistas listen to you. You also get a super-duper silver star for avoiding the topic of institutional racism within National.

      Now we’ve all graded each other I hope we all feel affirmed.

      • bilbo 5.2.1

        UM well you and that odd chap PB clearly listen ………. if you’re going for the look of a nasty little biggot you’ve got it nailed.

        Reminds me a bit of Clinton Smith’s occasional rants about rich tory boys but at least these were rare and most of his posts were considered so far your batting 3 for 3 on the bile stakes.

        • Zetetic 5.2.1.1

          I settled on an acceptable level of .. directness … in my posts by taking a quick tour of rightwing blogs. I looked at the fifthy racist, anti-women, anti-gay, anti-poor material on offer and decided its about time you got some of what you give. But I toned it down a long way from what passes for normal on those righty blogs. This is a civilised blog and we don’t win by sinking to your level.

          Anyway Bilbo my next post is on Labour. It’s written in the same style. I bet you’ll be cheering me like a good little boy then.

  6. Ron 6

    As I watch the train wreck that is Melissa Lee, the appalling set up with the Transition Authority on Awk and Joyce’s mealy mouthed concern for the communities that will be munted by his road……..I keep hearing “True Colours”

  7. bilbo 7

    Are you a stalker or do you have something useful to say ?

  8. vto 8

    What on earth is racist about one group of people expressing their fear of another group of people? And you may want to ask yourself how that fear has come about.

    For fucks sake I heard on the national radio yesterday a story in the maori news celebrating their special extraordinary physical capabilities (you know, like being bigger and stronger mostly). Bloody racists. Why no stink about that story?

    Why the fuck do stories like that get free air time and no complaint when if there is a story about how they may have a warrior gene then all hell breaks loose and its labelled racist. Similarly, if the story is about some research which shows the white man has a bigger brain. Not allowed those stories, no no.

    The clammering calls of racism that jump about in this country are so tangled, compromised and hypocritical they are a fucking joke.

    • Tigger 8.1

      vto – so irrational fear of a class of people on account of their race isn’t racism any more?

      • vto 8.1.1

        Tigger, dont be tricky. Whether it is irrational or not is not the issue. Similarly, the fear is not “on account of their race” the fear is a fear of violence.

        Why do you suppose the asian community fears the PI community Tigger?

  9. Akldnut 9

    Zetetic – you missed out Don brash and his Orewa speech

    • Zetetic 9.1

      didn’t wreck his career, enhanced it. But yes the fact that he brought back National’s redneck base with racism tells us something.

  10. The Voice of Reason 10

    “What on earth is racist about one group of people expressing their fear of another group of people?”

    Are you kidding, VTO?

    I guess it depends on how you ‘express’ your fear. Expressing it verbally is offensive, expressing it physically is a hate crime, expressing it by killing folk within your own country or invading another country is a war crime.

    • bilbo 10.1

      Thank you for that stream of logic which strongly suggests that Zittty Tic is a literary (in the loosest sense) rascist.

    • vto 10.2

      “Expressing it verbally is offensive”. Are you kidding? I think a mature approach to these subjects is well overdue in this country.

      Or maybe they best not express it. Just like ignore it or something. I dunno, someone else work out how the asian community should deal with its fear of the PI community (among others).

      Someone (I know, how about the govt) should also draft some legislation which outlines what constitutes racism and what does not. Just so everyone knows like. Cause right now it is impossible to work out what is and isn’t racist from what goes on in this country. Seems some can be racist and some can’t … Colonisers equal holocausters equals ok. PI equal excessive violence equals not ok.

      • The Voice of Reason 10.2.1

        Well, no, I’m not kidding.

        There are laws against racial vilification, but I accept if you express your fear of others at, say, a White Power meeting, nobody in the room is likely to be offended. However, I don’t think that’s the kind of company you keep, VTO, so if you do choose to express your fear in say, a social occasion, there is every chance you will offend someone, whether you intend to or not.

        Freedom of expression has limits. And for good reason.

        • vto 10.2.1.1

          I understand the necessary limits on human interaction lest people take offence and things take a turn for the worse.

          My problem comes with the completely uneven application of that principle. Which is racist itself.

          Example: Tariana Turia was not labelled racist for comparing colonisers to holocausters. That is offensive and racist.

          Example: Lockwood Smith cannot apparently express a fact about the physical make up of a race (‘small hands’), yet the maori news yesterday can express a fact about the physical make up of a race (‘bigger stronger’).

          • forgetaboutthelastone 10.2.1.1.1

            It all depends on who is at a disadvantage. Racial minorities have suffered for some time from the effects of racial stereotyping. The majority race has hardly suffered at all from similar racial stereotyping.

            Some would like to say – “lets have racial equality starting from now and we can all just treat each other equally poorly and that would be fair.” But its not because there are past experiences that still effect racial minorities to this very day.

            Sure – racism against whitey still aint right – but whitey has had it so good for so long its like – “harden up” or “cry me a river” or whatever.

          • bilbo 10.2.1.1.2

            I’m still coming getting over the Norman incident in 1006.

          • vto 10.2.1.1.3

            forgetabouthtelastone, your argument leaves me entirely unconvinced. In fact somewhat hardened because your last sentence is exactly my point, you racist pig.

            so good on Lee for expressing an issue that is important to her community (safety from dangerous criminals), athough expressed in a very bad way.

            many people fear polynesians when they come across them. why? well you fullas work it out. i imagine you know but will simply refuse to acknowledge the elephant in the room.

            Poor old PI community can’t handle being told they are scary? Well to quote yourself back at you “”harden up’ or “cry me a river’ or whatever”

          • bilbo 10.2.1.1.4

            Bah 1006 what 1066 you fool.

          • forgetaboutthelastone 10.2.1.1.5

            Some polynesians may be scary for whatever reason – some whiteys may be scary for some other reasons – but a statement such as “Poor old PI community can’t handle being told they are scary?” insinuates that every single member of the PI community is scary which is obviously ridiculous and offensive. I’m sure that the PI community are aware that there are some among them that others might find intimidating for whatever reason – and that they would not have a problem with having that reality pointed out.

          • vto 10.2.1.1.6

            see what I mean forgetaboutthelastone? the entire racism issue is so mixed up and out of balance that it now lacks any credibillity when somebody cries “racist! racist!”

            people just roll their eyes and continue with their day…

          • bilbo 10.2.1.1.7

            “”Poor old PI community can’t handle being told they are scary?’ insinuates that every single member of the PI community is scary which is obviously ridiculous and offensive.”

            Yes which is the point that VTO was making in relation to the post by Zitty tit

            “We’ve all been at a BBQ or something and heard a typical National voter waxing racist. Their MPs are the same. Difference is Lee did’t have the brains to keep her thoughts in her own head. ”

            Pot kettle black and all that ……….

            Feck I must be racist calling that kettle and pot black methinks they should join a group and accuse me of a hate crime.

          • forgetaboutthelastone 10.2.1.1.8

            “We’ve all been at a BBQ or something and heard a typical National voter waxing racist. Their MPs are the same. Difference is Lee did’t have the brains to keep her thoughts in her own head. ‘

            Yes I could see how that could be really frustrating for you national voters who consider racism to not be a typical trait of yours or your peers. And you have every right to complain about it.

            But don’t expect people to make a big deal out of it because whitey can simply shrug it off and go about his normal privileged existence.

            People say bad things about others all the time and no one likes being the victim – but for some the effects can be more damaging than for others.

          • vto 10.2.1.1.9

            hey forgetabout… heard the one about being in a hole and digging?

            Great to hear that now anyone can legitimately be a racist provided the effects on the subject are, relatively, minor.

            ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

          • forgetaboutthelastone 10.2.1.1.10

            “Great to hear that now anyone can legitimately be a racist provided the effects on the subject are, relatively, minor.”

            I’m no saying that. I’m not excusing racism in any form. Just trying to explain why racism directed toward the majority might be treated differently (in the media for example) than racism directed at minorities.

          • bilbo 10.2.1.1.11

            Yes quite right because only “whitey” would vote National just like only “darkies” vote Labour what about those of us with just a touch of the tar brush about us how should we vote ?

            I’m getting very confused in between all the racist BBQs I keep getting invited to.

          • Zetetic 10.2.1.1.12

            You should vote in your class interests bilbo. Not superficial divides like race. Have you not been reading your Marx?

          • bilbo 10.2.1.1.13

            What is my class interest ?

            What is my class .. I am part state employee part private business employee and of mixed race can you please enlighten me ?

          • felix 10.2.1.1.14

            No, you should stay true and vote hobbit.

          • bilbo 10.2.1.1.15

            I was thinking Ent maybe ?

          • Pascal's bookie 10.2.1.1.16

            troll

          • felix 10.2.1.1.17

            Really set yourself up for that one, hs.

          • bilbo 10.2.1.1.18

            Not sure why the PB chap would want to call dibs on being a troll.

            Perhaps he might prefer to be considered a Barrow Wight.

        • Zetetic 10.2.1.2

          You’re working class. Here’s a clue. A party made up of and funded by the idle rich and wealthy owners of businesses are not going to govern in a way that looks after your interests. They will look after their own interests.

          Check out your tax cut compared to John Key’s or Rob Fyfe’s and you’ll see what I mean.

          Or work out what you would have to pay for comphrensive medical and income insurance in the event of an accident on the private market compared to what you pay for ACC.

  11. exbrethren 11

    Is the only point of this article to point and name-call?

    Zetetic you say you trawled the right wing blogs to obtain a level of directness and it seems this article descends a few rungs down towards that level.

    The Standard policy states “We are intolerant of people starting or continuing flamewars where there is little discussion or debate.” This article seems to go against that policy.

    Disappointing to see this published.

  12. Daveski 12

    Where are SP and Tane when we need them? I’m not sure if it’s the result of being in opposition or the loss of the core and able contributors, but standards are dropping.

    Playing the race card with so little to connect the accusation with the core content is both pathetic and regrettable. It’s cartoon blogging at its worst.

    • lprent 12.1

      It is opinion. That is what the posters write here. You’re welcome to say why you think that it is wrong – in your opinion. However simply saying that the ‘standards’ are dropping doesn’t really cut it.

      • Daveski 12.1.1

        The standards are dropping was an attempt at a pun. Obviously not a good one.

        I will absolutely stand up for the Standard for the fact that largely dissent is tolerated and to a large extent welcomed and encouraged. I’m sure others from the right who are regulars here would say the same thing.

        It is undoubtedly only my opinion but this is a crap post. Sadly, the author’s equally pathetic comment below supports my opinion.

        Eddie … so is this some type of dog whistling.

        Anyway, I’m getting a little fired up so I’d better settle down and take a pill. The funny thing is that the Nats in particular have had their worst week in office since the election and there is so much material to legitimately attack the Nats without this type of approach.

        It’s almost like I’m defending a noble vision of the Standard … I need help 🙂

        • lprent 12.1.1.1

          This post doesn’t get close to what I’d step in and wrap people over the knuckles for. It has a point. Sure it steps on the sensibilities of some people, but frankly it needed to. When I read it it didn’t even twitch WTF instincts.

          Just look at the un-gagged views of the Maori Party over the appointment.

          BTW: The last post that I pulled was back in 2007 because it was pointless satire. Tane and Irish edited a couple of posts in 2008 to remove offensive paragraphs (before I got to them). The h-fee one is the last one that got published that really shouldn’t have been – but I wasn’t really involved in that discussion,

          Since then the posts have either been acceptable or gotten discussion while still being edited and visible by other contributors. A few of mine have been canned through that process. Most recently a post entitled “Wingnuts and moonbats – simple thinkers, intolerant of others” which was discussed in the background and dumped as being too inflammatory.

          There are currently just under 200 posts that have been discarded for various reasons, mostly being unable to figure out how to make the post work. Not bad when you consider that we have 2846 posts published since the site started, and the diversity of opinions amongst the writers.

    • Eddie 12.2

      Daveski. I think you’re confused about what ‘playing the race card’ means. Playing the race card would be saying ‘Lee can’t be racist because she’s Asian’ or ‘as an Asian Lee knows all about being a victim of racism’.

      We’re giving Zetetic a bit of a leash to see how it goes. If it goes too far we’ll ask for some restraint. It’s a loose collective but we also have an image to protect and we’ll strike the balance somewhere if need be. Currently, I think you’re all playing right into Zetetic’s hands. This is exactly the reaction that post wanted – rightwingers leaping to the defence of people who have made racist comments or pointedly trying to avoid the topic while pleading for Zetetic to go away.

      You might want to look up the meaning of the word. One might say Zetetic appears to be seeking to stir you up and see what comes out of your mouths.

      • vto 12.2.1

        “This is exactly the reaction that post wanted – rightwingers leaping to the defence of people who have made racist comments or pointedly trying to avoid the topic while pleading for Zetetic to go away.”

        Ha ha you guys are a joke.

        From the posts on here the only possible conclusion that can be reached is that it is the left who are in fact the best racists, as witnessed by the highly selective nature of their choice as to what constitutes racism. See fogetaboutthelastone’s posits for just one example.

        The left cannot see the wood for the trees on this issue.

        • Zetetic 12.2.1.1

          Turia has made racist comments too. She’s not on the left. We wouldn’t have that sellout in RAM.

  13. Zetetic 13

    Look at that. Despite bluster and whingeing from some quarters (don’t worry Daveski, I’ve called her and your mummy will be along to pick you up shortly) a real passionate debate about racism has developed.

    It warms me cockles so it does.

    Plus vto is in the position of trying to defend racists and getting a beating. Which is nice.

    • bilbo 13.1

      Yes clearly you were only wanting to stir up some debate …………. wasn’t that what Don Brash said … oh that’s right it’s not the same apparently he’s a tory racist and you’re a tory hating racist completely different.

      • Zetetic 13.1.1

        I’m not a racist. Tory hating but not a racist. What have I said that’s racist? Nothing. Tories aren’t a race.

        • Phil 13.1.1.1

          Discrimination based on race.
          Discrimination based on political view.
          Discrimination based on gender and or sexual orientation.

          One of these things is not like the other…?

          Nope, they’re all the same.

  14. vto 14

    Ha ha zitty, I was after a good debate on racism too as it is an issue which is, as I keep saying, so tangled convoluted compromised and saturated in hypocrisy that it is meaningless in NZ today.

    Plus I aint trying to defend racists. Idiot. I am trying to highlight the tangled convoluted compromised and hypocrisy-saturated nature of the issue. And the best to do that is simply repeat back to the left its own twaddle. This thread is full of delicious examples of selective racism by so-called liberals.

    Oh, and I certainly dont feel like I’m taking a beating. Quite the reverse actually.

    keep it up

    • Zetetic 14.1

      And don’t you feel alive vto? Isn’t it great?

      Coming in here, getting your arse kicked in everyone’s eyes but your own.

      Walking away charged up with testosterone and feeling like you’ve given the buggers what for.

      It’s so much fun. And that’s why, despite the whining from some, you keep coming back. That’s the fun of politics and blogging.

      • vto 14.1.1

        ha ha what? I dont think thats quite right. How did you sneak this post in here without me seeing? The old standard used to do this – sneak in an earlier post sub-post.

  15. Maynard J 15

    I think you all need a hand.

    http://dictionary.cambridge.org/results.asp?dict=B&searchword=racism

    racism Show phonetics
    noun [U] (UK OLD-FASHIONED racialism) DISAPPROVING
    the belief that people’s qualities are influenced by their race and that the members of other races are not as good as the members of your own, or the resulting unfair treatment of members of other races

    racist
    noun [C] (UK OLD-FASHIONED racialist) DISAPPROVING
    someone who believes that other races are not as good as their own and therefore treats them unfairly

    Now, to take it back to vto: “What on earth is racist about one group of people expressing their fear of another group of people? ”

    Short answer: When the group is selected by race, it is racist. By definition. Simple enough to me.

  16. bilbo 16

    “I think you all need a hand”

    I think a short slap to the forehead for Zitty will do the trick

  17. vto 17

    ok, ok, a point of sorts Mr M J, that was a part windup to get the debate going.

    It follows then that in fact so-called “racism” cannot be that bad. Surely the worse thing is that one group of people fears another group of people, not how they get identified. (which is part of a maturity that needs to come with race issues).

    The two groups could be different sports teams, say the blues fear the reds. Nobody would care two hoots about how they were identified. Or two different religions. Or two different political beliefs. Or two different car clubs ffs.

    The means of identification is of less import than the issue at stake (fear and safety).

    The problem of course comes when this means of identification is extended by others or used for other hurtful purposes … etc.

    All of which is yet more evidence of how tangledconvolutedcompromisedandhypocrisysaturated race is as an issue in NZ. It lacks maturity.

  18. vto 18

    Actually M J the problems seem to occur due to your definition “the belief that people?s qualities are influenced by their race and that the members of other races are not as good as the members of your own, or the resulting unfair treatment of members of other races”.

    The first part is difficult to deny, namely that peoples qualities are influenced by their race. In fact that is embraced by many, if not all. People like the positive influences and scream racism when the discussion turns to the negatives (here being possible case in point).

    The second part about belief in superiority is quite different.

    Mixing the two parts is probably the cause of most of the problems about race accusations and debate. They need to be split – need a new word to describe the belief that people’s qualities can be influenced by their race, because that is not necessarily bad.

  19. Pascal's bookie 19

    “It follows then that in fact so-called “racism’ cannot be that bad.”

    though you weren’t defending racism…

    “Surely the worse thing is that one group of people fears another group of people, not how they get identified. (which is part of a maturity that needs to come with race issues).”

    There is no problem with one group of people fearing another group of people based on the fact that the latter group is identified by the fact that they are thieves. There is something wrong with fearing them on the basis of thinking that ‘racial group x has quality y’. So how the group is identified is exactly the issue that determines whether the fear is legitimate. Surely?

    EDIT: crossposted, might waste some more time on this tonight, but think about what type of qualities are determined by ‘race’. Is criminality really one?

    • vto 19.1

      “but think about what type of qualities are determined by ‘race’. Is criminality really one?”

      Well it is on the basis of gender going by prison stats, and that’s accepted by all without accusations of sexism. I don’t know, what do the prison stats on crime in relation to race come up with?

  20. vto 20

    Well yes P’s B you’re right. Lee should have said perhaps “thieves from South Auckland” rather than whatever it was she said “South Aucklanders in general”.

    But again it highlights how messy the whole issue is. It should be permissible to state ‘race x has these attributes’.

    It should not be permissible to misuse and abuse that though of course. And it is precisely at this point imo that the problems start and it clouds the fact that it should be permissible to state things about a race.

    The two need separating.

    Or do the left think that attributes attributable to race should not be discussed or acknowledged? Just ignored or something? Which would of course be both unrealistic and victorian.

    • Pascal's bookie 20.1

      One quick one, it’s permissable as all fuck to say whatever the hell you want.

      That most definatly includes calling someone a racist if that’s what you think they are.

      If they then want to explain why they aint a racist, that’s all good.

      If they also want to say, ‘why yes I am a racist thank you very much’. That’s cool wit me too. Least so I know where they stand.

      It’s the saying ‘I am not a racist’, but not explaining but instead crying that they are being victimised that pisses me off.

  21. r0b 21

    I’m a little bit surprised to see vto here dispensing wisdom on the topic of racism given his record in this respect.

    • vto 21.1

      Oh come on r0b, that is pathetic andyou know it. If that is the best you got against me then you should have just stayed in bed.

    • felix 21.2

      vto that was some horrible bigoted racist stereotyping shit. Was it supposed to be a joke or something?

      • vto 21.2.1

        of course it was felix (well not a joke ha ha), thats why r0b’s post was pathetic.

        it was in response to the equally horrible bigoted racist stereotyping shit that that post posted.

  22. Maynard J 22

    A reply to vto, in part.

    Fundametally, you can choose whether you are part of a sports team, or a political party, but you can’t choose your ethnicity or gender.

    So I can (quite rightly) say that Milwall fans are a bunch of ‘ooligans and thugs, but I can’t say that [unnamed racial group] are ‘ooligans and thugs.

    That is because self-selecting groups tend to have definable statistical correlations based on a causative factor. This causative factor is inherent in the self selection. The causative factor is not inherent in the auto-selection of groups for which we may not discriminate against (without being branded racist, sexist).

    To elaborate (hypothetically). Milwall fans might be more violent because they originate from a rough part of town, and many also support the club because they are attracted to the violence inherent in being a Milwall fan. The correlation is also causation.

    [unnamed racial group] might also be more violent, but this is not caused by their being in that group (unless you want to start talking about ‘warrior genes’ and eugenics, but that’s something best left at the door right now) but by qualities caused to that group by external factors – thus we may have correlation but not causation.

    Essentially, when you are being racist or sexist or any other -ist, you are attacking a group without warrant, for the fact of the group itself is not the cause of the factor you are criticising. An obvious exception is that you’re allowed to tell people to use sunblock at varying levels, because some people’s skin colour, as determined genetically, affords them a greater degree of protection from the sun. In that case, the correlation (sun protection) is causative – it occurs by race. If you want to make that type of argument, though, you need some strong evidence that the causative factor is inherent in the group, as opposed to some correlating factor.

    Conclusion: it is obvious when someone is being racist. Ask yourself “Is the defined quality caused by the factor in question?” remembering to carefully distinguish between causation and correlation.

    • vto 22.1

      Agreed M J and have said similar previously, though nowhere near as eloquently. But I don’t know that the choice aspect is so crucial. Bigoted generalisations still form the basis of abuse whether footy teams or races, no matter which rough part of town they inhabit.

      As you say “attacking a group without warrant”. So, tangent, is the fear the asian community has of the PI community a causative thingy? Interesting interesting. People in NZ are too scared to try and answer that for fear of being labelled racist. Which refleects that lack of maturity referred to when it comes to race issues.

      • Maynard J 22.1.1

        “is the fear the asian community has of the PI community a causative thingy?”

        By my definition above, no, it is not the fact that they are Pacific Islanders that causes the fear. It is (making obvious assumptions here) the actions of members of that ethnicity that case the fear, so we have correlation only. Why the correlation?

        You have to look into the cause of those actions – and that would be the thing to get riled at. Say it is poverty or a lack of education or opportunity – it is harder to rail against the oppressed or struggling than it is to be against a racial group.

        There is nothing to be scared of in that analysis.

        But (and I think this starts to answer gingercrush’s opinion below) can the left or right claim the other has a monopoly on the simple analysis (correlation without causation) that is racist? That is harder to prove.

        You could argue the law and order topic as evidenced by Lee’s recent actions tend to do this – it is certainly the right’s barrow to push.

        Note that you could also argue that trying to ‘excuse’ people (or groups/’races’) for crime due to the reasons I gave above is a left wing trait, often labelled as PC.

  23. Ron 23

    “Are you a stalker or do you have something useful to say ?”
    Bilbo, were you asking this of me?
    Stalker? – if that means I don’t spend my entire day on here – well, yes, I suppose I am.
    Useful?!? You do READ the posts here, don’t you? I think my contribution was as “useful” as many.
    .

    • Pascal's bookie 23.1

      Nah that was aimed at me.

      He missed because he’s an idiot.

      The funny thing he is he tried to out me by googling my handle and posting the first photo he could find. Which was of some young American guy called robert (I think) who has/had a blog titled “Pascal’s bookie”.

      Which makes Bilbo a stalker, but a failure at it.

      He’s good at inventing new forms of stupid though. Just watch.

  24. gingercrush 24

    I don’t like this thread. I don’t like posts that blatantly accuse Tories of being racist and I particularly don’t like the BBQ line. I’ve met some very racist Labour voters and even racist Green Voters. Of course I’ve met National voters that are racist. Likewise, I’ve seen Labour and Green voters that have been sexst. I’ve seen dole bludgers of all political affiliations. I even know one particular person who use to vote Alliance that owned a very small business and treated his workers like shit.

    For the majority of Labour and National voters. There isn’t a huge difference. We might believe in some things differently. One might favour Tax Cuts the other doesn’t. One may want more money put into education and health while the other favours more personal responsibility. I know a number of people that vote for parties that I wouldn’t have thought reflected their principles. I also know that the vast amount of people I have met don’t really affiliate themselves with any political party. I would presume they would vote either Labour or National. But for many people, politics is just something they’ll watch the news now and then and they’ll vote every three years. That doesn’t mean they are ignorant or anything. Just they would rather involve themselves in different things.

    • gingercrush 24.1

      I also live in Christchurch which is supposedly a racist city and rather conservative. I don’t actually believe either is true and its much like impressions of crime in Chirstchurch. Statistically we aren’t a significantly crime-ridden city. Christchurch is also dominantly made-up of Centre-left voters.

      • bilbo 24.1.1

        Racism is despicable unless it’s directed against ginga’s they scare the living crap out of me with their bright orange hair and freckles.

      • Maynard J 24.1.2

        gingercrush, I sort of wandered into a comment on what you have written in a post to vto above, if you’re interested. 4:22.

        • gingercrush 24.1.2.1

          Noted. Though I wasn’t exactly referring to what Lee said. The less said about what she said the better. Very disappointing and rather stupid is what I think of her.

          • Maynard J 24.1.2.1.1

            So I was agreeing with you – I don’t like the blanket branding of ‘tories’ as ‘racist’ at all. If you’re going to do it, say which tories and why, and put up a decent explanation. And it needs to be pretty strong as do all statements saying all X’s are Y.

            Someone in another section made an interesting comment, that if all you’re given is a sledgehammer it is hard to not break things (along those lines). I don’t know whether Lee or National decided that they would push the law and order thing in the byelection, but I have come to see it as a clumsy attempt to turn the debate to that topic. There were hints of it during the Q & A, none so obviously manifested of course, but take another look and you will see what I mean.

            If I were a National supporter, my main question would be directed at the Party, asking whose strategy it was to push that topic so hard. Given there were hints of it over a week, there has been a failing in the party leadership or strategy team in not preventing the real dud call.

  25. Maynard J 25

    moved in reply above… sry

  26. mike 26

    If fuckwits like Zetitic are the new Tane then this blog is down the shitter faster than I thought.
    What a disgusting load of bile this thread is

Recent Comments

Recent Posts

  • Government offers formal apology for Dawn Raids
    A formal and unreserved apology for the Dawn Raids The Government will offer education scholarships as part of the apology Manaaki New Zealand Short Term Scholarship Training courses Support Pacific artists and historians to develop a comprehensive written and oral account of the Dawn Raids Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern has ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    13 hours ago
  • Speech to Dawn Raids Apology
    Tēnā koutou katoa, Kia orana kotou katoatoa, Fakaalofa lahi atu ki mutolu oti, Tālofa nī, Mālō nī koutou, Ni sa bula vinaka, Fakatalofa atu, Noa'ia 'e mauri, Kam na mauri, Malo e lelei, Sioto'ofa, Mālō lava le lagi e mamā ma le soifua maua, Oue tulou, tulou atu, tulouna lava ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    14 hours ago
  • Bridging the gap – last piece of Northcote Safe Cycle Route now complete
    The opening of two bridges over Auckland’s Northern Motorway is the last link of a cycling and walking route which provides a safe, active alternative for students and commuters, Transport Minister Michael Wood said today. Michael Wood cut the ribbon for the completion of the Northcote Safe Cycle Route, at ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    17 hours ago
  • Progress in establishment of Aged Care Commissioner
    Recruitment for an Aged Care Commissioner will start next month, to ensure greater oversight of New Zealand’s aged care sector. “This sector is responsible for supporting a large and often vulnerable population. While most people are able to access quality care, there have been cases where that care has fallen ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • New record number of homes consented
    In the year ended June 2021, the actual number of new dwellings consented was 44,299, up 18 percent from the June 2020 year. In June 2021, the seasonally adjusted number of new dwellings consented rose 3.8 percent. In June 2021, 4,310 new dwellings were consented, an increase of 3.8 per ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Communities backed to tackle wilding pines
    Twelve community projects across New Zealand will receive a share of $2 million to carry out wilding pine control, Biosecurity Minister Damien O’Connor announced as part of Biosecurity Week. “Wilding pines are a serious problem that threaten many of the unique landscapes that New Zealanders value. Community groups and trusts ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Health Minister Andrew Little responding to the New Zealand Nurses Organisation's rejection of ...
    I was advised last night that the result of the ballot of Tōpūtanga Tapuhi Kaitiaki o Aotearoa New Zealand Nurses Organisation members have rejected the latest proposal to settle their collective agreement. Let me be clear: the proposal was one they put to the Government. The Nurses Organisation rejected their ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Conversion Practices Prohibition Legislation introduced to Parliament
    Legislation has been introduced to Parliament to protect against practices intended to change or suppress someone’s sexual orientation, gender identity, or gender expression. Introducing the Conversion Practices Prohibition Legislation Bill, Minister of Justice, Kris Faafoi, said the measures proposed were aimed at ending conversion practices which don’t work, are widely ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • New school site for booming West Auckland
    The Government will build on a new school site in West Auckland to cope with rapid population growth in the area, Education Minister Chris Hipkins says. The Ministry is working with existing local schools to determine how the 1.5-hectare site at 279 Hobsonville Point Road will be used to support ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Trans-Tasman travel window to close at midnight tomorrow
    A further 500 MIQ rooms released for managed returnees from NSW Further Government actions announced today are balanced to provide more certainty for Kiwis wanting to return from Australia, while continuing to protect New Zealand from COVID-19, acting Minister for COVID-19 Response Ayesha Verrall says. The actions were foreshadowed last ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Govt investing millions in Hawke's Bay and Tairāwhiti schools
    Napier Boys’ and Girls’ High Schools are among those set to benefit from a $16.5 million investment in the Hawke's Bay and Tairāwhiti region, Economic and Regional Development Minister Stuart Nash announced today. The Government has set aside money in Budget 2021 to accelerate five projects in Napier, Hastings, Havelock North ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Game changing Jobs for Nature investment for Northland
    Conservation Minister Kiri Allan has announced Jobs for Nature funding for a portfolio of projects that will create ‘game changing’ gains for nature and communities across Northland/Te Tai Tokerau as part of the Government’s acceleration of the economic recovery from COVID. “This portfolio of 12 projects will see over $20 ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Third COVID-19 vaccine receives provisional approval
    New Zealand’s regulatory authority Medsafe has granted provisional approval of the AstraZeneca COVID-19 vaccine for individuals 18 years of age and older, Acting Minister for COVID-19 Response Dr Ayesha Verrall announced today. New Zealand secured 7.6 million doses (enough for 3.8 million people) of the AstraZeneca COVID-19 vaccine through an ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Bowel-cancer screening programme is saving lives
    More than 1000 New Zealanders have had bowel cancer – New Zealand’s second-most-common cause of death from cancer - detected under the Government’s National Bowel Screening Programme, Health Minister Andrew Little said today. More than 1200 New Zealanders died from bowel cancer in 2017. The screening programme aims to save ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Govt welcomes draft report on the retail grocery sector
    The Commerce Commission’s draft report into the retail grocery sector is being welcomed by Government as a major milestone. “I asked the Commerce Commission to look at whether this sector is as competitive as it could be and today it has released its draft report for consultation,” Commerce and Consumer ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Christchurch’s Youth Hub ‘set to go’ thanks to further Government funding
    Construction of New Zealand’s first, purpose-built centre for youth well-being is ready to get underway thanks to an extra $2.5 million of COVID-19 response funding, Housing Minister and Associate Minister of Finance, Megan Woods announced today.  “The Christchurch Youth Hub is about bringing together all the things young people need ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Next step to protect Milford Sound Piopiotahi
    Expert group lays out plan to better protect iconic UNESCO World Heritage site Milford Sound Piopiotahi and its surrounds Funding confirmed for dedicated unit and Establishment Board to assess the recommendations and provide oversight of the process from here Milford Opportunities Project a test case for transformational change in tourism ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Funding for projects to reduce waste from construction and demolition
    The Government has announced funding for projects in Auckland and the lower North Island to help reduce construction and demolition waste. “Construction is the main source of waste sent to landfill, and much of this could be reduced, reused and recovered,” Environment Minister David Parker said. “The Government is funding ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Speech at the launch of the National Hepatitis C Action Plan
    Tēnā koutou katoa. Thank you Anglesea Pharmacy and Te Manawa Taki for hosting this event. As a doctor, I saw first hand the impact of hepatitis C. I met Moana in 2019; she came to the infectious diseases outpatient clinic at Wellington Hospital having tested positive for hepatitis C. Like ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Plan to eliminate hepatitis C as a major health threat by 2030
    A plan to eliminate hepatitis C in New Zealand, reducing liver cancer and the need for liver transplants, has been released today by Associate Minister of Health Dr Ayesha Verrall. “Around 45,000 New Zealanders have hepatitis C, but only around half know they have it,” said Ayesha Verrall. “Symptoms often ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • School upgrades and new classrooms for West Coast, Tasman and Canterbury
    A funding injection from Budget 2021 to complete four shovel ready projects and new classrooms at six schools and kura will provide a real boost to local communities, Minister Dr Megan Woods announced today. “This Government has committed to providing quality fit for purpose learning environments and 100,000 new student ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Warmer Kiwi Homes smashes annual target
    The Government's highly successful insulation and heating programme, Warmer Kiwi Homes, is celebrating a key milestone with the completion of more than 38,000 insulation and efficient heater installs in the year to the end of June, smashing its target of 25,000 installs for the year. “The Warmer Kiwi Homes scheme ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Exemption granted for Wallabies to enter NZ
    Bledisloe Cup rugby will be played in New Zealand after the Australian rugby team received an economic exemption to enter New Zealand. Travel between Australia and New Zealand was suspended on Friday for at least eight weeks following the worsening of the COVID outbreak across the Tasman. New Zealanders have ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Minister of Foreign Affairs makes three diplomatic appointments
    Foreign Affairs Minister Nanaia Mahuta today announced three New Zealand Head of Mission appointments. They are: Mike Walsh as Ambassador to Iran Michael Upton as Ambassador to Ethiopia and the African Union Kevin Burnett as Ambassador to Indonesia Iran “Aotearoa New Zealand has a long-standing and constructive relationship with Iran, despite a ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Enhanced Task Force Green Approved for West Coast and Marlborough
    The Government has activated Enhanced Task Force Green (ETFG) in response to the West Coast and Marlborough floods, Social Development and Employment Minister Carmel Sepuloni announced today. “To assist with the clean-up, up to $500,000 will be made available to support the recovery in Buller and Marlborough which has experienced ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Govt support for upgrade of Eden Park players facilities
    Minister for Sport and Recreation Hon Grant Robertson has announced funding to upgrade the players facilities at Eden Park ahead of upcoming Women’s World Cup events. Eden Park is a confirmed venue for the Rugby World Cup 2021, the ICC Women’s Cricket World Cup 2022, and a proposed venue for matches of ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • More jobs and quicker public transport motoring towards West Auckland
    Work to improve public transport for West Aucklanders and support the region’s economic recovery by creating hundreds of jobs has officially kicked off, Transport Minister Michael Wood announced today. Michael Wood and Auckland Mayor Phil Goff this morning marked the start of construction on the Northwestern Bus Improvements project. It ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Government backs critical health research
    Research into some of New Zealanders’ biggest health concerns including cancer, diabetes, and heart disease is getting crucial support in the latest round of health research funding, Health Minister Andrew Little announced today. The funding, awarded through the Health Research Council of New Zealand, covers 31 General Project grants ($36.64 ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • New Bay of Islands hospital facilities to bring services closer to home
    Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern and Health Minister Andrew Little have joined a ceremony to bless the site and workers for Phase Two of the redevelopment of the Bay of Islands Hospital in Kawakawa today. The new building will house outpatients and primary care facilities, as well as expanded renal care ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 days ago
  • Raukokore re-imagined with ‘smart’ relocatable rent to own housing
    Iwi, Crown Partnership Relocatable, fully insulated housing, connected to a new solar plant Provides a pathway to home ownership New housing in the remote eastern Bay of Plenty community of Raukokore shows how iwi and Crown agencies can work together effectively to provide warm, dry, energy efficient homes in a ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 days ago
  • Cabinet accepts Turkish authorities’ request for the managed return of three NZ citizens
    Cabinet has agreed to the managed return of a New Zealand citizen and her two young children from Turkey, Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern announced today. The three have been in immigration detention in Turkey since crossing the border from Syria earlier this year. Turkey has requested that New Zealand repatriate ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 days ago
  • Govt delivers more classrooms so children can focus on learning
    Extra Government investment in classrooms and school building projects will enable students and teachers to focus on education rather than overcrowding as school rolls grow across the country, Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern and Associate Education Minister Kelvin Davis say. The pair visited Ruakākā School in Whangārei today to announce $100 ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 days ago
  • New station a platform for AirportLink to take off
    Every Aucklander with access to the rail network will now have a quick and convenient trip to the airport, Transport Minister Michael Wood and Auckland Mayor Phil Goff said during the official opening of the new Puhinui Interchange today. The new interchange links the rail platform with a new bus ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • 10 days sick leave for employees delivered
    Legislation doubling employees’ minimum sick leave entitlement to 10 days comes into effect today, bringing benefits to both businesses and employees, Workplace Relations and Safety Minister Michael Wood announced today. “Our Government is delivering on a key manifesto commitment to help Kiwis and workplaces stay healthy,” Michael Wood said. “COVID-19 ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Prime Minister congratulates Fiame Naomi Mata’afa on Election Win
    Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern tonight congratulated Prime Minister-elect Fiame Naomi Mata’afa on her victory in the Samoa’s general election. “New Zealand has a special relationship with Samoa, anchored in the Treaty of Friendship. We look forward to working with Samoa’s new government in the spirit of partnership that characterises this ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Quarantine Free Travel with Australia suspended
    Quarantine Free Travel from all Australian states and territories to New Zealand is being suspended as the Covid situation there worsens, Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern and COVID-19 Response Minister Chris Hipkins announced today. From 11.59pm today Australians will no longer be able to enter New Zealand quarantine-free. This will be ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Growing conservation efforts in Gisborne
    A big injection of Jobs for Nature funding will create much-needed jobs and financial security for families in TeTairāwhiti, and has exciting prospects for conservation in the region, Conservation Minister Kiri Allan says. “The projects target local communities most affected by the economic consequences of COVID 19 and are designed ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Flood recovery given further assistance
    The Government is contributing a further $1 million to help the flood battered Buller community, Acting Emergency Management Minister Kris Faafoi announced today. “Buller is a small community which has found itself suddenly facing significant and ongoing welfare costs. While many emergency welfare costs are reimbursed by Government, this money ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • Funding for five projects to reduce food waste
    The Government is funding five projects to help address the growing problem of food waste, Environment Minister David Parker announced today. “New Zealand households throw away nearly 300,000 tonnes of food every year, half of which could still be eaten. By supporting these initiatives, we’re taking steps to reduce this ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • Temporary Accommodation Service activated for West Coast flooding event
    The Temporary Accommodation Service (TAS) has been activated today - meaning residents on the West Coast of the South Island and in the Marlborough region hit by flooding over the weekend can now access help finding temporary accommodation, announced Associate Minister of Housing (Public Housing) Poto Williams in Westport today. ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago